[joanne l]

I just fund Victor beef and rice. I was looking for a beef and rice formula and I had a hard time finding it like I mentioned before. But I found this one, but I never used Victor so any input about this food would be helpful.

[joanne l]

I would do what the vet recommended. If you still want to find another food please make sure you show the vet and ask him about it. Because this condition needs special care. Hope the best! Just curious what were you feeding?

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi Bobby, I just called Royal Canine, and they said Mars own’s them, but they make their own food at their plant. And she told me Mars owns a lot of brands but they don’t make them, they just own them. Now the article I post is confusing now that I see what you are saying. So I really don’t know what facility they are talking about. But I would like to find out because what ever facility it is sound terrible.

[joanne l]

I do appreciate everyone’s input, and I am evaluating everyone’s opinion. I did read the article, and also they are mentioning grain free, exotic meats, and boutique brands. I also read that when dogs diets were changed to grain in they improved if the DCM was not too far gone. I will find the article and post it.
I think we all are aware of this, and I started off this thread for opinion’s on Fromm grain in foods. And since everyone has a different opinion it is hard to say if I should use it. Well there are plenty of other good foods out there, so I will keep Fromm on the back burner until brands are mentioned in this matter. As far as peas and legumes are concerned I won’t use them, there is one thing I know for sure, is that peas and legumes prohibited absorption of certain minerals and amino acids. That is a fact. With just that I won’t use grain free period!! So for the people that think peas and legumes are okay in a canine diet long term is wrong. And thank you everyone for the information. I know it can get crazy when we discuss things, but we do have to remember that everyone is just trying to help one another. And maybe someone know more than another and maybe not. But it is all good that we can discuss things. That’s how we learn and keep on top of it. Thank you.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks for the post. But still getting back on topic I think the Fromm grain in foods maybe okay. But not the duck at all. I really would like to try the new one, it is beef and barley. Well at least Fromm is making an effort to make a grain in food that people want.

[joanne l]

Mars Petcare

A factory at North Sioux City, South Dakota, USA, was originally purchased by Mars in 2007 and worked under the Mars Petcare brand. This was then re-branded to Royal Canin in 2011, where it manufactures both wet and dry pet food.

I copied this on line. https://www.cookinglight.com/news/iams-pedigree-mars-dog-food-recall
Yes, Mars makes Royal Canine!!

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I don’t know much only what I read and it looks like mars makes Royal C. I hope I am wrong but we need to find out for sure. Because anything made by Mars I don’t like, even if they have Vets on staff.

[joanne l]

Well most vets are telling people to use grain in diets and not to use grain free or exotic meats. I am no expert, but I will go by my instinct I never liked grain free anyway, I don’t like giving my dog legumes or peas in that matter anyway. I much rather give rice with his meat than legumes. By n means am I trying to tell anyone what to do, that is just how I want to feed my dog. Right now what is suspected is grain free and exotic meats, I don’t feed it anyway, but that is what is suspected. And if it is suspected I wouldn’t take the change and use it. If the FDA suspected something with our food ingredient I bet you would not touch it until further notice.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hey everyone, I did not hear back from you guys? I wanted to try Royal C. but since it is made by Mars I don’t think I will. The FDA did investigation and found very unclean situation over there. My website explains it and it sounds terrible!! I say this respectfully, I don’t care if Royal Canine is one of the “better foods” to feed I do not feel comfortable feeding it at this time. Just wanted everyone to know what I found out. Maybe you guys know it already.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

If I go on FB how do I find it? I just wanted to add, that since it is grain free and exotic meats we should avoid, what would be wrong with feeding the Fromm’s grain in diets? I understand about what everyone is saying about the guidelines, but isn’t it really about the grain free recipe? Another words, I know people that were feeding Merrick grain free now they switched to merrick grain in, they still stood with the same brand.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Sorry to hear about your dog. Please don’t blame yourself! As far as diet goes, you can certainly feed raw, but it is not balanced. Give your dog a good grain in dry food along with the other things you give. I don’t know much about Stella’s maybe someone else that knows more can help you there. Try Purina Pro Plan, Wellness products, maybe merrick grain in formulas. Choose ones that been around a long time with nutritional experts on staff. I know it is a lot to take in, but the FDA is warning against grain free and exotics meats, which is kangaroo, duck, venison, bison. Just listen to the FDA until they find out what is going on. Example I do feed grain in dry food along with rare steak, or cooked chicken, tuna and rice. I do use can once in awhile when I am lazy.

[joanne l]

How come Fromm been around for over 100 years and can’t meet certain guidelines? I thought I could trust Fromm, grain in foods, since they been around so long. I agree to not use grain free or exotic meats, but what about the grain in formulas?

[joanne l]

Thanks a lot everyone, I will check out that website FB and Anon that is great about Fromm, I like the beef and barley food! I will look into that one. I hope it is okay. I know that Fromm was on the list for DCM, but what surprises me is that they have been around for over 100 years. That is weird that dogs are having these issues with their food. If makes me wonder that if companies are using foods sources that contain a chemical that is causing DCM as well as grain free? I do believe that grain free is not good for dogs, but I also believe that maybe some chemical as well. But if it was a chemical I would think the FDA would have found it by now I guess.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks everyone I will continue with Purina and may use Royal C. as well. What a shame for Fromm! Oh by the way Merrick is owned by Purina. So do you all think that Merrick would be good to feed??

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I feed Holistic Select, did the vet tell you this?? I found this article so now I don’t know what to believe. I think all dog food has something wrong with it. Purina for an example has Vitamin k, and they say it can be linked to liver damage, however a lot of dogs eat it and they are fine. I am glad your dog is getting better, and appreciate you posting your experience.
ttps://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2017/06/17/green-tea-benefits-for-pets.aspx
This article states it was only in fasted dogs, but not the others. She claims it is not harmful in small amounts, just like Purina said about the vitamin k. I guess every dog handles minerals differently I suppose.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I do use pro plan large bread beef and rice too, he loves it I give him a can a day. I was feeding Fromm, they have a beef dry food one but it’s grain free. Well I checked Petco and whole heartily, which is their brand , they have a beef and rice. But the only thing is they use a lot of peas. This is ridiculous, now I have noticed that these companies that are trying to make grain in foods , they are not taking out the peas!!! How cleaver as if we were dumb. I think they are keeping peas in their foods to keep the protein higher at a cheaper cost. I would love to tell these companies off.
So if anyone notices grain in foods, look for peas in it. I hope they get rid of these PEAS, also I hope they read our posts.

[joanne l]

Hi I am sorry to hear about your dog, mine too does that. You are right it has something to do with his diet. My dog had a eye infection and the vet gave him antibiotics. When I stopped the med’s it returned. I knew I had to find the cause. So I switched his food and in a couple of days the eye infection went away and did not return. There is a dry food called Holistic Select, you can get it on chewy. It has a lot of probiotics in it, this food is designed for that. Read the reviews on chewy they have lamb, chicken, fish, duck, turkey flavors. I been through a lot with my other dog as well, and sometimes the vets don’t know all the exacted causes. I am not saying don’t ask a vet, but you feed the dog and observe what the outcome is. In my situation with his eyes I observed and thank God I found the cure. Just try this food and do it gradually, mixing with his old food for a 10 to 12 day period. example: if you feed 3 cups a day, than in a container mix 2 1/2 cups old and 1/2 cup new do that for 2 days. If stools are good than continue by mixing more of the new and less of the old, in 1/2 cups. example: 2 cups old and 1 cup new you get the idea. Hope it works, let me know. Believe me diet has a lot to do with it!! I think it is better to start on diet before you go to the vet a load up on meds. Certainly if diet correction does not work than go to a vet. Hope the best for you.
I forgot to mention, is he still having problems even with Crave? Well anyway if you use Holistic Select you will not need to buy probiotics. This is loaded with it. Sorry for all the edits but I knew a friend that his dog had skin problems and the vet gave him meds after meds, and finally the vet said lets change his diet and bingo his skin cleared. The owner was relieved b/c the dog was on meds for 2 years. which was not good.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks, I have another good question. I been looking for a beef dey dog food that doesn’t have chicken or lamb. Bascially just beef as a protein. I am having a hard time finding something. My dog loves beef he itches less on it. Lamb is good which he get now, and I want to give pro plan beef and rice a try but it is the savor which has lose soft pieces in it and my dog hates them. So if anyone knows a dry food that is just beef let me know. Thanks.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I did not here much of grain in diets causes DCM, however, exotic meats were also a problem. I think maybe toxins in some of these foods have something to do with it. From what I have seen, it was mostly grain free and expensive brands.
It is hard to say, but the only thing I can think of is legumes are not good , and exotic meats, I think have certain chemicals in them. They are not getting it from the US. so God only knows where it is coming from and what preservative is being used. The company can tell you they don’t use chemicals to preserve it, but that doesn’t mean who they bought it from did. And they don’t have to disclose that.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks everyone for the feed back, I use Holistic Select grain in made by wellpet, they been around a long time too, but I think I will keep Purina in my rotation. I like using the Pro plan, but I never tried their Savor I use Focus. Has anyone used the Savor by pro plan?

[joanne l]

I wanted some feed about Purina, I know it is a good food. I am just surprised that everyone I know that uses Purina dog chow or other Purina dry food, their dogs are doing great! I mean nice shinny coats great weight and muscle tone. Compared to some of the “high end” foods, dogs look great on Purina. And not to mention some of the people I ask that feed it say good things about it and their dogs live long. I was feeding it for a while and I will go back to it. I usually feed a couple different brands in rotation. I wanted to hear if anyone else feeds it and has great results. From what I hear Purina knows about dog nutrition hands down. Ingredients might not be appealing to some, but from what I hear it works.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

https://www.livestrong.com/article/426939-essential-amino-acids-in-vegetables/
Here is a link read the paragraph about beans and legumes. This might be very helpful to understand something. As it states how Legumes and beans do not contain amino acid methionine, which is important. I am just doing research to see what I can find. A little bit of picking at it might come down to some kind of understanding. All I know is, what I read about legumes and peas and beans I DO NOT want to give that to my dog. I would NOT feel good about it. As far as my Vet, he mentioned to feed regular grain in dog food. He mentioned to me grain free is not been established to know enough about it in the long run. Bottom line he don’t like grain free diets.
And thank you crazy4cats for the info.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I wonder if this investigation is going to last forever. I think it might last long because companies will lose a lot of money if they have to reformulate their food. I also wonder if they will sweep this one under the carpet because of MONEY? I hope not. But I think any FAD diet, including ours, is not good in the long run. So I don’t feel comfortable using grain free at all.

I just found this on a website check it out:
Legumes contain relatively low quantities of the essential amino acid methionine (which is found in higher amounts in grains).
Methionine Functions. Methionine helps produce Cysteine which is used to create protein, taurine, and glutathione. Taurine helps maintain your overall health. Glutathione plays a major role in protein and DNA production as well as metabolizing nutrients inside your body.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Here is another article to read: Should anal glands be expressed manually?
Dog lovers are often misinformed because they are told they should get their dog’s anal glands emptied. Some veterinarians and groomers believe that expressing them will prevent them from filling up, which is not correct. In reality, the more frequently they are squeezed, the less toned they are. It almost seems that the canine glands get ‘lazy’ by having them squeezed too often.
Ideally, you should let your dog’s anal glands do their job and allow them to empty naturally. Most dogs’ anal glands tend to be semi-full when examined, but that is not a reason to have them expressed.
That is from this website: https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014181-holistic-approach-to-anal-gland-problems-in-dogs

There are different opinions on everything, I guess do what works.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

I did and my vet said to me abut my dog, “give him food that will frim his stools and they will express naturally” So I would appreciate if you don’t quote me like that. And it is true that if they are expressed unnaturally too often will weaken their anal glands. You can read about it your self.

[joanne l]

I just wanted to chime in here, there are several things that can cause this, one of them is toxins, cushion disease and diabetes, mold on food. However, if anyone suspects diet to be the cause than change it. Since toxins and mold are two of the possible causes than maybe it could be the food. I am not a vet I just read and try to help to the best of my knowledge.

I just found this article: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/what-that-liver-enzyme-test-is-telling-you/
There are 4 or 5 liver enzymes and what they do. So I guess it depends on what liver enzymes are high. Ask your vet which ones were high and maybe that can help narrow down the cause.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi I am sorry to hear about your dog I have a GSD too. He has anal gland issues as well. My vet did not know what was causes it. He said “could be diet or just a condition” Well anyway, getting them expressed will fix it but the down side of that is it will come back and you will need to do it often, which is not good for the dog. It will weaken his anal glands. Anyway he was eating pro plan so I switched to Holistic Select and he seems better. Still he will lick at his bum but not often like on Pro plan. So the next step is to change the protein in his diet. I know it is not the grains that is causing it for my dog, it may be the protein. So I would try the hypoallergenic dog food and see what happens. Or try to find a LID of another brand. Best of Luck.

[joanne l]

Thank you for this post, I am sure everyone will appreciate it. By the way are you using human magnesium? What is the dose?

[joanne l]

Take him off Acana, feed him a bland diet like Anon said for a few days and try a grain in diet from a reputable company. Do it gradually, over a 2 or 3 week period mixed in chicken and rice. I hope your pup feels better. Obviously it is the food!! Why did you change his food anyway?? Was he doing good on Royal Canine?? If he was doing good on RC, then go back to it. Don’t get wrapped up in the “better food” thing, sometimes it is not better!! Just my pinion.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks for the info. It is looking very badly for grain free diets. I hope pet companies start changing their formula’s. There are too many grain free diets out there and very few grain in. Maybe if a lot of people start using grain in, it may force companies to change their recipes. If no one buys grain free they will have to change it.

[joanne l]

Can you feed a grain in food? If so then do that. I think Wellness is a good option, Wellness also makes Holistic Select that is a good food as well. They have a nice variety.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hi Kathryn, I agree totally!! I know from experience that this is not good. Just b/c Petco “wants to tell all natural ingredients” doesn’t not mean anything about manufacturing. Since it is in Petco, more quantity must been made, so therefore less quality. You can NOT have quality and quantity, that just doesn’t work. This has always been a rule of thumb.

[joanne l]

Hi everyone, I was just in Petco they are now selling Champion pet foods. I know this is not good b/c they were only sold in specialty stores. Now they are in big box stores. I live in Philadelphia so this is what is happening here. I wonder is Purina bought it already?

[joanne l]

I know you want the best for her, but I would stay away from Acana due to DCM, Acana seems to be one of the brands high on the list for this problem. I know breeders that feed Purina for years on end with no problems. So if your pup is doing fine on Royal Canine then leave it. Your pup is telling you she doesn’t want Acana. Sometimes you need to listen to what your dog is saying. Best Wishes.

[joanne l]

This is frustrating, I just put my dog on health extensions dog food, I did a slow transition, for 3 weeks and he is on all new food for 2 weeks, now diarrhea. He didn’t have it when I was transitioning, could it be the food anyway? How long will you know if a food is going to be a fit for a dog. I thought I would be able to tell in a week if his system couldn’t handle it. Could it take longer for symptoms to show up? Like diarrhea? With my other dog if I transitioned him and if the food didn’t agree with him I would know it right away.

[joanne l]

If you want to stay with Purina, try their sensitive skin and stomach, they have two, lamb and oatmeal and salmon and rice. It is the pro plan line.

[joanne l]

Thank you Candice, I just ordered Holistic Select again, I was feeding it for a month but he didn’t like it, however I did notice he stopped licking at his skin that was irritated. So I am going back to it but I am trying a different flavor he would like. So The food won’t be here for a couple of days, should I give him a homemade diet for a couple of days? Or should I feed the food I am using until it comes? I will have to do a transition and I have a big dog. So if I mix the two he won’t be hungry, however if I cook for him and transition I probably need to make a big batch of food until he is fully on new food. I am going nuts.

P.S. I do have a antifungal spray that I use and it is safe if licked, it is pretty good. I heard that apple cider vinager and water is good to use on it, but I didn’t try that yet I think it might sting. Also, I am now adding probiotics to his food. What do you mean by detoxing? Stop kibble for awhile? Use montoriay clay, sorry I can’t spell it.?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Thanks for the post I hope he will be okay, I will see what the vet says when he see’s it. Also, I am thinking of lamb to be the offender here. I put him on lamb because of sensitivity to chicken, however he did itch here and there when he started on lamb. I over looked it because I didn’t think much of it. So he has been eating lamb for a while about 1 year and 1/2. I am thinking if it is the lamb it probably got worse. I am no expert but I think I may try duck for now to see how it works. Little afraid of duck b/c he can’t have chicken so I am hoping he can have duck. Other than that the vet needs to determine what to do. If anyone else had this problem I would appreciate your experience of it. Thank you.

[joanne l]

Thanks I will change diet, plus ask vet about it and see what he recommends. I am not against medicine. I guess I usually point to diet first because I had a vet years ago, she was very good, and told me most of the dogs have problems due to their diet. Now, she did mention other factors like genetics and other conditions that need to be treated and diet has nothing to do with it. But she claims most problems start from what they eat every day.

[joanne l]

You can also try a high calorie dog food, if he can handle it. Also, like others said, cook chicken and maybe boil some ground meat and add white rice to it.

[joanne l]

Hi I know how you feel, it is very stressful. I am feeding Health Extensions and so far we like it. He was eating Holistic Select, which is good too, but he didn’t care for it. So I picked Health Extensions and I like the variety they have. Hope everything works out.

[joanne l]

Hi everyone I just found this from the FDA but no outcome yet. This was posted 3 days ago. Here is the link: https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/ucm630993.htm

[joanne l]

Hi Steve seems like you picked good ones. Those are good and also what the others mentioned are good too. I know that doesn’t help b/c too many choices. I been there too. I don’t know what would be best, but they are all good foods.

[joanne l]

Victor’s is good just like Sanne said. Also Holistic select and health extensions is good, but a little more money.

[joanne l]

Hi Robin, I know you don’t want rx diets, but maybe for this it is the better option. Did you ask your vet about home cooked food along with some dry food for the nutrients? Make sure you don’t use grain free. But what ever you choose please show the vet the ingredients and the percentage of protein and phos. in the food. If you go with the rx diet use Royal Canine, I don’t like science diet. I am sorry I can’t give any further advice on a brand of food, b/c I don’t want to steer you in the wrong direction.

[joanne l]

Isn’t Dollar general a Dollar store? I don’t know if I would trust anything from a dollar store, but that is just my opinion.

[joanne l]

I agree with others. Wellness is a good choice.

[joanne l]

I was looking at that food Susan, it does look very good for another choice.

[joanne l]

Yes they did.

[joanne l]

It is probably the new can food and the filled bones.

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