[haleycookie]

I would probably start with switching foods. Do it slowly tho. Just introduce a new puppy food for him. Make sure they are small kibbles. And of course make sure he gets a vet check up and his puppy shots to keep him healthy. But yes it seems like the blue small breed puppy just isn’t aggreeing with him. Feeding canned isn’t bad either. It’s less prossessed than kibbled food and usually higher in meat content and will keep your puppy fuller longer.
If you insist on kibble, wellness core small breed, solid gold small breed, and nature’s variety puppy are good options to try. You can use canned food as a topper to make things more interesting for him. Make sure u start a teeth cleaning regime as well. Yorkies’ teeth tend to rot out of their heads no matter what you do but Getting him used to brushing them the sooner the better.

[haleycookie]

I would vaccinate an outdoor cat yearly, make sure he has a tag and collar on so if someone picks him up they can get ahold of you, make sure u are also deworming monthly and keeping a flea and heart worm preventative on him monthly as well. Outside is a dangerous place for cats. Know that he will have a shorter life span than indoor cats as well.

[haleycookie]

So he only gets 3 of the small ceasers a day? For a 21 lbs dog they recommned 5 a day. Are you sure there are no extra calories you’re giving him? Is he not very active?
Also the food is 100% balanced food so no worries he’s not getting all he needs. It is a lower quality food however. Lots of unnamed meats and fillers like flour, corn starch, and pea fiber.
You may look into a higher quality canned food. Or try freshpet dog food. It’s pretty good and has fresh veggies in it. I know several small dogs who love the stuff and for a smaller dog it’s not too outrageously priced to feed.
As far as weight I would just continue to cut back and maybe ask the vet? If he’s seriously gaining weight on 300 calories a day I’d be concerned. Most dogs need 30 caps per pound of weight, small dogs should be ok at 40 cats per pound if they’re energetic. So definitely something wrong.

[haleycookie]

First, what did the vet recommend? Second did he specify what type of crystals they are? If they are a reoccurring type he may have to be put on a specific ph diet either a prescription food or you can talk with a vet nutritionalist who can formate a homemade diet. I would go that route if u have the time. It will likely run u the same amount of money as a prescription diet will and give your dog a better quality diet.
If it’s a non reuccuring type he can just be kept on whatever he was eating and maybe you can soak his kibble in water everyday for added hydration which can help with urinary problems.
Also why is he on a vegan food? There isn’t much reason to feed a facilitated carnivore a vegan food especially since it seems u top it with a beef canned food so I’m assuming u don’t feed it for ethical reasons. Does he have some other problem that requires the vegan food? If not I would take him off it.

[haleycookie]

It’s just a YouTube vid of a puppy lol

[haleycookie]

A food switch should be slow and graduate over the course of a week or two for best results.
Maybe the Iams just has an ingredient that Your dogs can’t stomach. All foods mentioned are of lower quality as well. I also wouldn’t suggest switching hard again to the third food. You may see the same issue. Hopefully not. If they like it and do well on it I’d stick with it. It’s the highest quality food you mentioned.

[haleycookie]

Out of everything mentioned here I’d go with Fromm, canidae, or victor. Canidae is excellent. I always recommend it. It’s a great company who grows their own produce and sources most of their meat from family farms.
However I must ask. Why have u been told such a low protein? Does your dog have some health problem that requires it?

[haleycookie]

Anon I’m not sure you even read a single sentence of this post. This dog is a puppy. Neither foods you recommended are suitable for growing puppies.

I would recommend foods like wellness core, natures variety raw boost puppy, Merrick back country puppy, or solid gold puppy. All are good options.

[haleycookie]

If he’s been checked by a vet and nothing is found (he’s just being picky) try the suggested above, egg (raw or cooked), some raw (thaw slowly in fridge) or cooked chicken prepared properly as a topper. You can also try raw goats milk to add some fat into his diet, or look for new born puppy dog formula at a pet store and mix that’s with his food. Also whatever brand he is eating try to see if it has a puppy formula and feed him that if he likes it, you can also top with canned puppy food as well for a calorie boost.
The main the would be to make sure he doenst have any ailments first. And hopefully getting him transitioned onto a better quality food.

[haleycookie]

Why haven’t you seen your dog in two days? Were any of these dogs vaccinated? Sounds like they all had parvo. Which is usually a gruousome way to die for the dog if left untreated. And its fatal. It can be treated but it’s not cheap. I think at this point I would beg any emergency vet near you to put it out of its misery if u can’t afford treatment. Then don’t get another dog until you can afford to vaccinate them and give them proper care. Dogs sometimes need expensive care it’s a given when owning a dog.

[haleycookie]

Looks like your typical low quality grain free food that’s 90% peas and potatoes and 10% meat. I would pass.

[haleycookie]

First is the 4health food you have her on a puppy formula? Second, at 40 lbs at only 4 months she sounds like she’s going to be a large breed dog so a large breed puppy food would be best. I always recommend wellness core puppy or wellness complete health large breed puppy. If she’s just big for her age instinct raw boost puppy is good for medium dog breeds.
As for the cooking chicken and rice, I wouldn’t do that. At least don’t make it anymore than a treat. Chicken and rice isn’t a balanced meal and shouldn’t make up more than 10% of the puppies diet. A canned food like Merrick, instinct, wellness core would be acceptable and good quality and properly balanced for a dog. If you plan to make the canned more than 10% of the diet then a puppy canned food would be necessary for proper nutrition.

[haleycookie]

Usually an up in water intake helps with uti and some types of crystals. Although some are reoccurring. How old is your pup? Is this the first occurrence? If it is I would just feed the prescript food until the crystals are gone. Then return back to high water content food. Although if it is reoccurring I wouldn’t keep the dog on the prescript food permanently. Find a non traditional vet or a vet nutritionalist to help you formulate a properly balanced home diet for dogs with reoccurring urinary issues.
The thing is with prescription foods is these big companies can balance the ph levels correctly and they can do it with inappropriate cheap subpar ingredients then slap a huge price tag on it and call it “science”. However I wouldn’t buy into it. You’ll spend the same or less making your dogs food with fresh ingreients that are appropriate and you know where they come from. Good luck.

[haleycookie]

This is being discussed all over the forums in other threads. Don’t let it scare you too much though. Many people will make you terrified on this forum and suggest you start feeding proplan hills Royal Canin etc, however I wouldn’t do anything drastic at this point. Still too little is know about the topic. If you are really concern you can visit the vet and ask them to do a taurine blood test and send it off to be tested. Then act accordingly if your dog does have low levels. I don’t advicate for putting grains back into a diet. Dogs don’t need grains or carbs in general. Carbs = fat dogs, more shedding, and larger poops. I would recommend switching (or rotating with honest) other high meat content foods, adding in fresh meat, canned foods, bone + meat broths etc to the dogs diet to maximize nutrition if you can’t simply switch to raw.

[haleycookie]

Vets actually get very little schooling on nutrition in vet school whether you want to believe it or not. One required class before entering the prevet program and it can be taken online in 8 weeks if chosen to and includes most animals (bovine, feline, canine, equine, etc). Everything after that is optional electives. And after vet school their knowledge is limited to that of the money hungry big boys (Colgate, nestle, and mars).
His vet recommended proplan grain free. Has three pea ingredients in the top two lines. So a pea based food. A BIG ingredient of the dcm talks if you don’t recall.
I would avoid playing into all this hype of the big companies wanting you to switch to their food. See a nutritionalist, or a specialist in the silica stones if you want the best results. Dogs don’t need a mainly carb diet and if you can afford something beyond feeding kibble I would highly recommend it.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

According to The study they’re doing on this whole dcm thing the issue is that there are too many peas in most grain free foods and that’s whats causing the low taurine. Dogs (if on an appropriate meat rich diet) don’t need supplemented taurine and that’s the issue I’m having with this whole thing. Proplan isn’t meat (where taurine comes from naturally) rich. The grain free is a plant based food full of pea ingredients just like any other mediocre grain free food. If it was as easy as just supplementing taurine into the diet with a pill or something of the sort this would all be a lot easier but that’s not how it works so I would ignore what you vet suggested as they don’t seem to be very up to speed on what is actually being found with this study.
Stay with Orijen or another meat based food you trust and add fresh meat and canned food into the mix and you’ll be just fine.

[haleycookie]

So are you trying to do a raw diet or a home cooked diet?
For raw you follow a simple plan 80% muscle meat (muscle meat, heart), 10% bones(you want no weight bearing bones, chicken wings or legs are good options. Same with other types of birds. For red meat animals it’s typically ribs, tails) then 5% liver, and 5% excretory organs (kidneys, lungs, skin). Some stick to this other add other things like fruits and veggies high in vitamins (blue berries, kale, turmeric, etc). I’ve also seen bone broth used and raw goats milk.

As far as cooked diets with no bones. Those can be more complicated. Many on this site will suggest balance it, a website where you can buy supplements and recipes for cooked diets.

[haleycookie]

I’m just saying often times the “recommend” amounts are way over what they should be. Max will be 7 this year and has been on 3 cups of food a day only for 6 of those 7 years. No nutrient deficiencies here. Just a lean mean barking machine.
If she is seriously an outdoor dog whom never stops moving perhaps she has something else health related going on and that’s why she isn’t loosing weight.

Edit: ok I just read the original post and it seems she does have a thyroid condition. Which can cause weight gain. She may just be stuck with that extra 8 lbs then. But as I said food recommendations on bags are often way too much. If a 70 lbs active lean lab only need 3 cups a day to maintain his weight a pit who should be 60 should probably only be getting 2-2.5 cups a day until she drops the weight. Then kept at 2.5-2.75 cups to maintain. If she’s spayed that can also make her hold weight more and make it more difficult to loose.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

I think you are feeding too much.
My roomates 70 lbs lab gets 3 cups a day to maintain his current weight and he’s a semi active dog. And the food he on is lower cal then dr Tim’s.
To me 3 cups a day and a topper is enough to maintain her current weight not to loose any weight.
I would cut back a half of a cup (if you still use toppers) and walk her everyday if you are able. Or throw a ball in the backyard for a bit if she likes fetch. Anything to get her activity level up.

[haleycookie]

I’ve heard of this before, not sure of the validity of it, but the first issue I see is she’s not getting any wet food as far as you mentioned. I know with utis in cats it is common for an all dry fed cat to get them often. Adding in at least half wet can sometimes completely get rid of the issue so I would recommend doing that to make sure she’s always hydrated and changing to a poultry/red meat based food your dog can tolerate.

[haleycookie]

I would be extremely careful with that website. Most of those ridiculously cheap medication websites are shams. And sell fake products that could potentiallly be dangerous. The website doesn’t come off very legitimate either. I took a look and saw a few grammar and spelling mistakes on the main menu options. Tread carefully…

[haleycookie]

If yours dogs won’t let you brush their teeth I’d go with raw turkey necks. Maybe once or twice a week. Then attempt to brush the other days if you can. Softer treats like bully sticks, trachea, etc aren’t really hard or long lasting enough to make a difference. I also like whimzees and nylabones for dental chewing as well.

[haleycookie]

Growing dogs need as much fat and protein as possible. So I wouldn’t restrict that until he’s around year and a half to two years depending on his activity levels as an adult. If he ends up being a house dog then I would suggest a lower calorie food perhaps or just better controlled feedings once he hits two years. If he has a job as malamutes sometimes have then a higher cal food is a must for his adult years.
Chewy is easy and you don’t have to drag the bag around they just drop it at your door and you bring it inside. They also have free shipping over 49$ which is nice. Otherwise I would just feed the wellness core puppy. Unless the store carries something else that appropriate.

Edit: email nv and see if the calcium ratios are right for a growing large breed. For some reason I think it’s been mentioned before that thier large breed puppy formula is way off.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

Wellness core lb puppy is a quality food. What other foods does the store carry? Can you just order the wellness online? the regular wellness core puppy is also formulated for growing large breeds.

[haleycookie]

Raw diets can be complete and balanced. I know shocking! But it is possible to do a little bit of research and even get with a nutritionalist to make a raw diet. A diet that is most correct and healthiest for a dog.
By the way it’s ludicrous to say big dog food companies are buying the best products lmao. Don’t make me laugh. They’re buying the cheapest most processed antiobiotic and hormone filled garbage they can get their money hungry hands on so they can spend 5$ making a 40-50 lbs bag of food and resell it for 20-30 dollars. sorry but no. The trials they do also are incredibly limited and they take into consideration that the dogs are alive after the trial and that’s it.
Raw and slightly cooked balanced diets are the way to go. There’s no way anyone will make me believe for any reason a burnt ball of artificial vitamins with over cooked ingredients are better. I know not everyone can have the time to make their dog and cats food which is why i will still suggest other types of food. But I refuse to recommend low quality ones from untrustworthy companies.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

There’s a couple issues here. First deer and kangaroo are farmed. Kangaroo in say zignature dog food comes from Australia where it is killed for human consumption as well. Deer is also farmed. As well as elk, bison, etc here in the states. I’ve met several elk farmers.
as for by products if they were really those organs you mentioned don’t you think big companies would list them seperately as smaller companies do just to give consumers price of mind? You can even call and ask those companies what their “by products” consist of and you’ll never receive a straight clear answer.
Another thing you mentioned was how by products are high in taurine. Well let’s think about that for a minute. Kibble is basically a burnt crisp ball with 0 nutritional value before it is covered in a vitamin mix. So really whatever taurine was in those by products before isn’t really there anymore after the rendering process and then the extrusion process kibble goes through.
And the last thing is smaller companies that focus on nothing but dog and cat nutrition are going to be much more trust worthy as there’s no conflict of interest when it comes to sourcing meats. Giant companies such as Colgate, mars, and nestle will however will have a greater interesting in higher profits while lowering cost of production. More so then smaller brands would ever.
And you’re right. Dogs aren’t humans. They’re dogs. Carnivorous animals extremely related to wolves. They’re also family members. And idk about you but I would want to feed my family members the healthiest diet possible.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

Sheltie sass- did you read spy cars post? Protein has no bad effects on dogs. It’s a myth. In fact you suggest a raw diet which is almost completely made of protein, bones, and fat. I don’t think the protein levels are what’s the issue here. Just as spy car said dogs have no nutritional requirements to dogs (or cats) so adding rice would be counter productive to what the original poster is trying to do.

[haleycookie]

The vitamins are all off. And there’s a specific reason for that. I would get with a vet nutritionalist or email fromm and see what they say. Long term vitamin deficiencies are dangerous. That’s the only cause for concern I can see.

[haleycookie]

How do you know they’re the same? Did you contact Fromm? Vitamin levels are not listed specifically on the nutrient panel.
You don’t seem interested in any of the reasons given or consulting with your vet or Fromm about it so do what you want. What we say clearly isn’t mattering to you

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with feeding a dog cat food except the reasons already stated. Size of the food and especially the price. You said “dogs” with an s right? Well rememeber quality cat food rarely has bags bigger than 12 lbs. I see fromms biggest bag of cat is 15 lbs. for 50$. Thats a lot of mouths to feed for 50$. If you have dogs and cats you’ll be burning through that bag within a week. Maybe week and a half. The average 22-30 lbs bag of regular quality dog food costs 50$. If you have the money for it then go for it. But I would email them first about vitamin levels. Dogs and cats require different things so they might have different vitamin levels which is something I’d be worried about. Especially since vitamin deficiencies can be really dangerous and usually don’t show until it’s too late.

[haleycookie]

Almost every brand of dog food has to draw vitamins from China. I’m sure if you email any company they’ll tell you the same thing (or won’t tell u anything) so it shouldn’t be the upsetting as the majority of food, whether they say made in the USA or not, use vitamins from China.
Most human vitamins are sourced from China as well. They have some type of power of vitamins so that they can only be bought from them.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

Along with spy cars recommendation I’ve seen some raw feeders feed with their hands. Just put on thick gloves and hold onto the bones and make the dog chew as much as possible.

[haleycookie]

I wouldn’t change foods if she’s doing well on the current one and not gaining a lot of weight. How much does she weigh? My cousins 68 lbs in shape lab eats canidae all life stages and only gets 3 cups. I would describe him as medium activity level. He gets to run in the back yard and go on frequent walks but that’s it.
No reason to change food if he’s doing well on it. Higher protein doesn’t have any negative effects ther than weight gain in lazy dogs or dogs with diagnosed kidney problems so I would just stay on the Victor.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

Eve- Orijen does have lentils in it. Quite a bit so if that bothers you I wouldn’t suggest Orijen.
The issue with having a grain free pea, potatoe, tapioca free food is it expensiveeeee. Dr elsey recently released a cat food that doesn’t contain any of these ingredients. The binder is gelatin (bone marrow) and for a 5-6 lbs bag is nearly 60$. Doesn’t make sense for companies to create a product like that that’s 99% meat product when it’s going to be so expensive. Most if not all dog food companies are in the business of making money. They don’t really care about your animals. They are focused on making food that is as cheap as possible for THEM so they can mark it up for the consumer. As sad as it is if you really want to avoid all of these issues that’s going on in commercial dog food you would just make your own dog food because there’s no escaping all the crap dog food companies throw at customers. Bottom line they don’t care, champion foods doesn’t care, purina doesn’t care, mars doesn’t care, Colgate/Hill’s doesn’t care, none of them care about anything more than making money in the cheapest way possible for them. Money makes the world go round and for any of us to think pet food companies are any different is very naive.

[haleycookie]

Anon do you know what peas are? A cheap starchy filler of which zignature is made mostly of ;).
I would change to a lower cal food. Fromm is great. Also I’ve had people tell me whole earth farms weight management has really helped their dog. Weight DOES effect the joints. It may be too late to reverse what might be happening but it definitely doesn’t do joints any favors being weighed down by extra fat.
I live with some family who has a lab on canidae life stages. He is 7 this year and weighs 68 lbs. lean mean barking machine is what I call him. He gets 3 cups of life stages a day. And is moderate activity level. He loves to retrieve a tennis ball and go on walks. As far as exercise is concerned I would get some pain relief first then try with the exercising. First I would reduce calorie intake to start the weight loss.

[haleycookie]

If your dogs are healthy the higher meat content the better. Watch out for peas and potatoe protein to up protein levels. What gives massive amounts of energy is carbs and starches which get converted to sugars.
Dogs that are anxious are just anxious. That’s how they are. The lab I live with gets anxious during things that bother him. Pants, barks, etc. protein has absolutely nothing to do with anxiety lmao. I would change vets just from that suggestions.

[haleycookie]

I second the where’s the bone question.
Also heart is considered a muscle meat when feeding raw. Not an excretory organ like the kidneys. So I would add the heart into the over all ground beef mixture. Not the 5% excretory organs. Your ratios should be 80% muscle meat/fat (including heart), 10% bone (soft pliable bones such as turkey necks, chicken feet), 5% liver, 5% excretory organs (kidneys, lungs).
You could also do this 70% muscle/fat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% excretory, 7% veggies, 3% fruit.

[haleycookie]

Having grain in the food isn’t the saving grace here. Taurine is found in meat. Not grains. Legumes and taurine in meat don’t mix well. Especially when cooked at high temps. Substituting the legumes for grains is better for taurine absorption, but not so great for a dogs digestive system which is meant for meat and low carb. So upping the carbs in the form of grain inclusive foods isn’t exactly the answer. Unless one wants fat diabetic dogs. I think rotating meat based foods and quality in grain foods (think canidae, Victor, etc) in once in awhile would be the better answer. Sadly grain free does not = higher meat content and I think that’s where the grain free trend originates. And that’s where grain free dog foods are going wrong at this point. I think one should be more interested in low carb levels in general then just “grain free” foods. unfortunately most grains free foods coming to the market these days are mostly full of carbs sourced from legumes and potatoes.

[haleycookie]

I would try canidae all life stages food. I think the brown three protein food is good for a large breed puppy. I can’t quite remember but I do recall they had a good all life stages all breeds In the right range for large breed puppy growth. However there are grains in the all life stages. They have a grain free line called pure but none of those are for large breed growth. But I like the three protein all life stages because it has three proteins as the first three ingredients. For a grain inclusive kibble it’s pretty good.

[haleycookie]

If she’s allergic to raw chicken then she’ll likely be allergic to chicken meal or deboned chicken. Typically from what I’ve seen in people that start in a kibble diet and the dog is allergic to chicken meal will often not be allergic to the raw chicken because it’s unprocessed. So I wouldn’t try with chicken meal just to be safe. Chicken fat though, is different. It isn’t a protein so she probably won’t react to that. Many hypoallergenic foods with say, salmon, as the ingredient will use chicken fat as the oil/fat in the food so I wouldnt be AS scared of that as the chicken meal. But if it makes you feel better and you wanna be extra safe I would avoid the fat as well.

[haleycookie]

If there’s nothing medically or physically wrong with him any food would be fine. Typically higher protein lower carb foods would be the best. Some I can think of are Natures variety raw boost, merrick Orijen. Canidae has a new food called ancestrial that looks very promising as well.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

You’re far better off just making your own raw food then buying this stuff. If you follow nature’s varietys freeze dried raw foods guidelines for feeding you feed a 40 lbs dog 2.5 cups a day. A 1 lbs bag (60$) would last you less than a week. Most freeze dried foods are not affordable. If you’re looking to stay away from kibble consider researching a properly balanced cooked or raw diet for your dog.

[haleycookie]

I would go with natures variety puppy raw boost. Probably the lowest carb grain free puppy food you can easily find in a petstore.

[haleycookie]

A 50 lbs dog should under no circumstance be eating 5 cups of food a day unless he’s working daily as a mushing husky. I have a 70 lbs dog with moderate to high exercise and energy who gets only 3 cups a day. This food must be running through him like a train which doesn’t surpise me considering its pretty much just wheat and corn.
If he’s pooping in the middle of the night I would feed him earlier and only 2 cups at night and make sure you let him go potty before bed and stand outside with him until he goes.
What foods have you tried since the original post? Have you taken any of Susans suggestions. Like trying to find a food with a similar guaranteed analysis?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

That’s all you’re feeding? That is NOT a balanced diet. I would put them both on a kibble until you can figure out how to make properly balanced raw meals.
No an extra drumstick won’t cut it. Expecially for a puppy. Puppy’s need the proper nutrients to grow correctly. They also need DOUBLE the food an adult dog needs typically for atleast a year depending on the breed. So one chicken leg isn’t going to cut it. I would put them back on kibble and figure out more balanced raw meals. Or buy pre made raw until you can figure it out.

[haleycookie]

You’ll want a large breed foo more than anything. From Large Breed puppy, canidae large breed, or wellness core puppy are allformulated correctly for large breed puppies.
You can do canned of course but I’m not 100% sure there are canned foods for large breed puppies. So whatever you do use I would make it less than 1/3 of the dogs diet.
As far as canned food goes I like weruva, natures variety, wellness core, and merrick. And yes ziti peak is horribly expensive. You’d be better off just cooking meat and using that as a topper then buying ziwi.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

I recommend Fromm large breed puppy. It doesn’t contain any of those things. However do keep in mind if you’re talking very very large breed puppy your going to be feeding a lot. Largebreeds are puppy’s for about 2 years and will need to be fed twice the amount an adult would. So let’s say you have a Dane and your Dane is already over 100 by a year and a half, you’re going to be feeding 4-6 cups depending on how large he is. But Fromm is always my first pick. What kind of puppy do you have? Also what is his weight. 6 cups does seem like a lot. On Royal canins website the only 6 cup weights I saw were 100 lbs at 6 months. Then after that the serving sizes get smaller as your dog matures more.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by haleycookie.

[haleycookie]

You have to email or call and the company should give u the sodium content.

[haleycookie]

The 3 month chew is bravecto. Which I suggest to everyone who doesn’t want a topical. It’s a great flea preventative but I’ve never seen it sold for less than 60$. So unless he had some kind of discount it’s most likely just going to be around 60$. But that’s still a good price for 3 months. especially for how effective it is. It is prescription only through the vet

[haleycookie]

I’ve used zymox brushless gel before and liked it. They also have a water additive.

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