What’s your take on this from the FDA

Dog Food Advisor Forums Dog Food Ingredients What’s your take on this from the FDA

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 141 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #118711 Report Abuse

    Mark C
    Member

    I just received this email a short while ago from the food and drug administration. I would love to hear some other dog owners take on what the FDA is saying. I understand they’re going to investigate a possible Link between heart disease and some ingredients in, I guess primarily grain free foods. What will you do now that you have this information?

    “The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is alerting pet owners and veterinary professionals about reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs eating certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. These reports are unusual because DCM is occurring in breeds not typically genetically prone to the disease.”

    The entire press release can be found here:
    http://s2027422842.t.en25.com/e/es?s=2027422842&e=109574&elqTrackId=B1F0B909CCF90C71B9C490C37BFE6647&elq=a075f007757c4a3a9b9df7d175de0368&elqaid=4228&elqat=1

    Author
    Posts

    #118712 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    Hmm, not sure what to make of it?

    I would go here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/ and ask your question.

    There are no veterinarians affiliated with DFA. Any responses you receive will be opinions, not facts.

    #118713 Report Abuse

    Mark C
    Member

    Thanks anon101. I will do that. Obviously as a dog owner of four great dogs who eat grain free with peas lentils and potatoes I find this a little alarming so hopefully the website you directed me to can clear some cobwebs out of my mind. Thanks again

    #118714 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    I hope that you find the site helpful.
    My dogs have been on Zignature (as a base) for a few years now, excellent results.
    So, I am not concerned.
    Also, I have been consuming a lot of legumes myself, for the past few years, I am a vegetarian.
    My cholesterol level has dropped, my blood pressure has gone down (no meds).
    I am not making any changes for my pets or myself, for the time being 🙂

    #118715 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Wow! I think that I am going to continue rotating between foods that are grain free and ones that include grains. Maybe even discontinue grain free all together? I never thought that grain free food was all that spectacular like many others do to begin with. But I have found it a way to feed my dogs a variety. Since I have lab/golden mixes, this is a very real concern to me. Btw, this is the first report that I’ve seen that has included potatoes. Hmmm?

    Also, I would contact your vet that has examined your dog. Mine were in to see their vet last week and she was aware of the concern. She said that her and her partners thought and hoped that the grain free craze would pass. She recommends Purina, Royal Canin and Hill’s, of course! I do feed some Purina in their rotation. Definitely something to think about!

    #118716 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    @ Mark C
    PS: If you are new over there (skeptvet) it may take a day or two for your post to show up
    They screen posts and don’t tolerate inappropriate comments,

    #118717 Report Abuse

    haleycookie
    Member

    Having grain in the food isn’t the saving grace here. Taurine is found in meat. Not grains. Legumes and taurine in meat don’t mix well. Especially when cooked at high temps. Substituting the legumes for grains is better for taurine absorption, but not so great for a dogs digestive system which is meant for meat and low carb. So upping the carbs in the form of grain inclusive foods isn’t exactly the answer. Unless one wants fat diabetic dogs. I think rotating meat based foods and quality in grain foods (think canidae, Victor, etc) in once in awhile would be the better answer. Sadly grain free does not = higher meat content and I think that’s where the grain free trend originates. And that’s where grain free dog foods are going wrong at this point. I think one should be more interested in low carb levels in general then just “grain free” foods. unfortunately most grains free foods coming to the market these days are mostly full of carbs sourced from legumes and potatoes.

    #118718 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    My dogs digest grains just fine, especially oatmeal and corn. You just have to make sure you are buying a brand that uses grade 1 ingredients. It’s real tough, actually impossible to tell by the label the quality of the ingredients. Not all chicken meal, beef meal, corn, etc. are created equal. You have to go with a company that you trust.

    I, for one, am taking this report seriously. Especially, since it is the third or fourth institution that has announced this concern. I wish picking a dog food could be easier. Good luck everyone!

    #118727 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    I agree with c4C. My dogs have literally zero issue digesting grains. In fact we have to use a grain inclusive food as I’ve stated multiple times because of Bentleys stomach. Peas will send him to the vet instantly.

    We recently switched from Pro Plan to Victor (not because Pro Plan wasn’t working, but to cut cost) and are very happy. I’ll continue to use Victor as long as they continue to do well on it and the price at our local feed store stays lower than chewy.com. We even switched the cats to Victor too!

    #118728 Report Abuse

    Stacy H
    Member

    I saw that and I am concerned. I disliked “grain free” for years – nobody is allergic to all grains – but then tried a grain-free food for my 1-year-old pup and he is doing fantastic on it. (Simply Nourish Source)

    I noted it said “certain pet foods containing legumes or potatoes as their MAIN ingredients.” (My emphasis) My question is, which foods contain peas and potatoes as the main ingredients?

    #118730 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    Stacy-

    Many of the grain free foods on the market now are majority protein from legumes. If the legumes are even remotely high up on the ingredient list (the food you’re feeding has them in the first 5 ingredients) are going to be considered to have legumes as the main ingredients.

    Companies making and pushing grain free foods are now realizing they can cut corners with their foods since the grain free craze has taken off so much to the point that many people believe that if the food says grain free its by default better than a grain inclusive. They don’t even bother to check how much of the food is peas, chickpeas, lentils etc.

    #118736 Report Abuse

    Mark C
    Member

    Stacy H: I picked up on that wording in the Press release too. That confused me. Are some foods laden with pea products better than others? Personally I think I would rather not wait for the outcome of the study. I’ll find grain inclusive foods or grain free without potatoes and bogged down with peas. Right now I have 2 of my 4 on Merrick Weight control. Potato and peas 🙁 I may switch to Natures Variety weight control. Although it’s a bit pricy. Anyway something tells me this could shake up the dog food industry. Maybe for the better?

    #118739 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi,
    Legumes, are Lentils, Beans, Peas, adzuki beans, black beans, soybeans, anasazi beans, fava beans, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), kidney beans and lima beans, legumes also include alfalfa, clover, lupin bean, mesquite, carob, peanuts and tamarind.

    I never read or saw anything on the net about potatoes being involved??
    maybe it’s cause grain free diets have PEAS & ingredients like Potatoes & Peas or Sweet Potatoes & Peas, so the FDA have mentioned Potatoes cause of the high amount of “peas” ??
    Beans are a legume, Potatoes are tubers, and Cucumbers are gourds…
    Potatoes always get a bad wrap, in the beginning most grainfree foods had Potatoes & Sweet potatoes & people started saying potatoes cause yeast in dogs, which is untrue. People seem to think starchy carbs cause yeast in dogs when it’s the protein in the carb that the dog is sensitive too that causes yeasty ears, skin & paws or its environment allegies causing the dogs yeast problems, this is when Lentils started to replace the healthy Sweet Potato, Sweet potatos are low Gi, easy to digest & great for dogs with stomach & bowel problems… I like pet foods that have Sweet Potato, Potato, Brown Rice, Sorghum, Millet, fruit & veggies etc…
    Here’s “EarthBorn Holistic” formula’s, Ocean Fusion & Adult Vintage both these formula have NO Peas, No Legumes, these formula’s have grains & Sweet potato & Potato…..
    https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/holistic/ocean-fusion

    also “Canidae” make their all Life Stages formula’s, there’s “Platinum” for Less Active dogs, weight loss or there’s Canidae’s other ALS formula’s Chicken Meal & Rice and Lamb Meal & Rice have peas but the peas are 6th ingredient..
    https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-platinum-dry-formula

    It’s best to Rotate between a few different brands this way your dog isn’t eating the same dog food 24/7 & if something is wrong with 1 of the brands you’re feeding then your rotating between different brands hopefully avoiding long term health problems…..

    I think these pet food companies read Legumes are healthy (for Humans) mainly eaten by vegetarians for the high protein %, so Pet Food companies thought this is GREAT the meat protein % will also go up when we add Lentils & Chickpeas & we won’t have to use as much meat protein, pet food companies know people will read Lentils, Chickpea’s are healthy for humans & will buy these pet foods for their dogs thinking that Lentils are healthy for their dogs & cats aswell & now we are seeing the results…. It’s not good

    About 1-2 yrs ago in the DFA Reviews” section people were posting in the “Zignature” section saying their dogs were having Urinary Tract problems, it was the Lentils causing these problems, 1 lady posted all 4 of her rescued dogs where also having Urinary Tract Problems (UTI’s) & the only food she was feeding them all was Zignature that is very high in Legumes…

    #118869 Report Abuse

    Christine W
    Member

    I took this VERY seriously when i read it,and contacted my vet.I feed my Pugs Wellness grain free & Science Diet weight control ( eye roll) which they went on strike when i took it away,BUT may be a good thing now? This is only part of what she replied:

    One thing that may come to light in the future is the exact percentage of meat that composes these diets. DCM has been linked to a low level of taurine, which is an amino acid that is found in certain meats or animal proteins. Dogs can also synthesize taurine from a precursor called cysteine that is often found in ingredients besides protein eg grains. If there truly is a causation, we may also find that certain grain free starches may actually prevent absorption of taurine or prevent it from being synthesized from the precursor cysteine (this is just a hypothesis-I am not aware of any science that has proven this theory yet).

    One common misconception is that grain free diets actually help pets with allergies. This may be true in some cases, but in studies, we have found that most pets are actually allergic or sensitive to the protein and not the grain in diets. Unfortunately, through advertising, many pet food companies have pushed owners to believe that ‘grain free’ means healthier and less allergies, and we have seen many owners opt for more expensive grain free food because of this. The majority of pets do great on diets containing grain.

    #118966 Report Abuse

    Blkdoodle
    Member

    Just when, all I had to research, for my food allergic doodle, something else comes up throwing a “wrench” in the mix. Right now I have her on Instinct Limited Diet Lamb dry, and a topper of Instinct Lamb wet alternating with Whole Earth Hearty Lamb Stew. I look for a food that has at least two meats at the beginning and hopefully without peas, potatoes, green beans etc. That’s hard to find.
    I have no idea if she is getting enough taurine or not. I just wish dog food manufactures didn’t have to “fill” their foods with potatoes, peas, beans etc.

    #118981 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi Blkdoodle,

    Buy tin sardines in spring water/olive oil from supermarket, check that the salt % isn’t too high, (compare with all the different sardine brands) drain out all the spring water/olive oil, put the tin sardines in a air tight glass container put in fridge, then add 1-2 spoons sardines a day to 1 of your girl meals & the Sardines will balance her diet with EPA,DHA, Vitamin, minerals, calcium, taurine etc…
    I’ve been posting Steven Browns recommendations for years now, add 1-2 spoons of sardines to 1 of your dog daily meals…
    Steve Brown posted for kibble feeders who were worried the Omega oils had gone rancid in kibble after it had been opened.
    Steve posted
    Add to 1 kibble meal a day 2 spoons of Sardines in spring water or Olive Oil, for raw feeders also add 1-2 mussels & a pinch of kelp…
    for a 40lb dog add 1/4 can of sardines 1 serving a day.

    Sardines contain some of the highest concentrations of EPA and DHA omega-3s of all fish, making them an excellent dietary addition, and they also contain taurine and vitamin E, another potent antioxidant.

    #119001 Report Abuse

    Blkdoodle
    Member

    Thanks for the information Susan. Callie also is allergic to fish, especially salmon but other fish mixes as well. So said the results of her allergy test. I hate to try the sardines and find she has a reaction. She is taking Apoquel for the allergies.
    I appreciate your response and interest, thank you.

    #119386 Report Abuse

    lynette w
    Member

    I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.

    Here is the letter from Wellness:

    ear Lynette,

    Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our Wellness® CORE® Dry Dog Food.

    We are aware of some research conducted by the FDA on grain-free diets that contain high levels of legumes. Wellness has added supplemental Taurine to all dog diets since 2004 as a precautionary step following similar research that was published relative to the use of lamb and brown rice in diets. Currently Taurine has yet to be considered a requirement for dogs, and we add twice the minimum level of Taurine required for cats since it is a required nutrient for cats. It’s also important to note that unlike cats, which are dependent on their daily diets for their Taurine, dogs can synthesize (produce) Taurine given the proper precursors in their daily diets.

    Please also know the FDA has contacted the makers of the offending foods, and we have not been contacted by the FDA but continue to watch the situation.

    As always, our Consumer Affairs Team is available to talk with you if you have any additional questions. We can be reached at 800-225-0904. Please click the link at the bottom of this email, which will send you to our Follow-up page, where you will be able to continue your conversation with us and attach any requested/necessary pictures or documents related to your contact.

    Thanks again for contacting us.

    Sincerely,

    Melanie
    WellPet
    Consumer Affairs Representative
    000545098A

    #119387 Report Abuse

    lynette w
    Member

    Check the ingredients. They may already include Taurine.

    I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.

    Here is the letter from Wellness:
    ear Lynette,
    Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our Wellness® CORE® Dry Dog Food.
    We are aware of some research conducted by the FDA on grain-free diets that contain high levels of legumes. Wellness has added supplemental Taurine to all dog diets since 2004 as a precautionary step following similar research that was published relative to the use of lamb and brown rice in diets. Currently Taurine has yet to be considered a requirement for dogs, and we add twice the minimum level of Taurine required for cats since it is a required nutrient for cats. It’s also important to note that unlike cats, which are dependent on their daily diets for their Taurine, dogs can synthesize (produce) Taurine given the proper precursors in their daily diets.
    Please also know the FDA has contacted the makers of the offending foods, and we have not been contacted by the FDA but continue to watch the situation.
    As always, our Consumer Affairs Team is available to talk with you if you have any additional questions. We can be reached at 800-225-0904. Please click the link at the bottom of this email, which will send you to our Follow-up page, where you will be able to continue your conversation with us and attach any requested/necessary pictures or documents related to your contact.
    Thanks again for contacting us.
    Sincerely,
    Melanie
    WellPet
    Consumer Affairs Representative
    000545098A

    #119487 Report Abuse

    Stacy H
    Member

    Thanks for that information about Wellness, Lynette!

    Blkdoodle, I know, just when you think you have feeding your dog all figured out… 🙁

    #119489 Report Abuse

    Christine W
    Member

    Thank you!!!

    #119571 Report Abuse

    Eve M
    Member

    Honestly, I am concerned. I try not to overreact to this constant barrage of new info regarding dog food ingredients, but I’m bothered.

    I emailed Stella & Chewy’s about the RAW BLEND – red meat, freeze-dried, baked kibble with freeze-dried raw. Peas are the 3rd ingredient and lentils are 4th. Below is what looks like an automated email response which did nothing to instill confidence.

    ALSO, to pile on… if you go to *******************, foods like ORIJEN get 1 star for contaminants which I’m sure relates to the inclusion of fish. Don’t think Orijen includes peas or lentils.

    “I and LOVE and YOU, Lamb and Bison” scored low on *******************’s contaminants and high on ingredient quality. Lovely, until I actually read the ingredients… 4th peas and 5th lentils.

    All of this feels like literally, PICK YOUR POISON. For some reason, ******************* is being scrubbed by dog food advisor. HMM.

    Good luck everyone.

    Evelyn

    STELLA & Chewy’s email….
    Thank you for your email. We are aware of the FDA release dated July 12 regarding a potential association between reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, and certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. We have no indication that any of our products are involved in FDA’s investigation. We work closely with veterinarians and nutritionists to ensure that our diets are complete and balanced and meet AAFCO requirements. Please know that our freeze-dried raw and frozen raw diets are free of peas, lentils and potatoes, and contain less than 1% of the legume seed fenugreek. Also, we do add taurine to our raw and kibble diets. We continue to be confident in the safety and nutritional quality of all of our diets. We appreciate the work that FDA does on behalf of pet parents, and will monitor this investigation as it unfolds.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Eve M.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Eve M.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Eve M.
    #119578 Report Abuse

    Patricia A
    Member

    I feed Stella’s raw coated and also not happy about peas already starting with their 3rd ingredient. My three are used to kibble as a base and I’ve been giving less and less and substituting calories with freeze dried proteins. Can’t really win with kibble or canned since most grain free has peas, legumes etc starting at latest 4th ingredient. If not grain free it’s then full of potatoes and lentils as 3rd ingredients. If it’s not that it’s worrisome things like Carrageenan being added. One day they’ll all get it right.

    #119592 Report Abuse

    Stacy H
    Member

    I found a couple of articles that I thought were interesting, especially the first:

    https://wagglydogs.com/dog-advice-and-welfare/fda-dog-food-warning-hasty-too-focused-on-ingredients/
    https://www.americanveterinarian.com/news/fda-warns-of-possible-link-between-grainfree-dog-foods-and-heart-disease

    I easily remember when “grain-free” didn’t exist. Then it’s like a trend took over the shelves… it was what people wanted or thought they wanted, but that doesn’t necessarily make it what’s most natural or healthy for the dogs. (Look at me talking of course, with my big bag of grain-free food I ended up buying.) I always noted how these foods tend to be loaded with peas instead.

    I’m so lost about what to do next for my Brodie. I’ll probably go back to a grain-inclusive food, maybe Canidae. I feed him dry food with some canned Merrick and some tasty real foods as a topper.

    #119606 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    You’re right, Stacy, the first article is very interesting! A couple of posters, BobbyDog and Aimee brought up some of those very questions on whether or not the diets just are not appropriately balanced and/or maybe the amount fiber or source of fiber may have an impact on taurine absorption. I’ve never heard of wagglydogs. Interesting site. Thanks!

    And, I believe they are correct on the enormous impact that FDA statement may make on the dog food industry!

    #119619 Report Abuse

    Kathy W
    Member

    I contacted my vet and she said until the specialists have figured out exactly what this is about she recommended I switch my Dogs (Dobies) to a quality food that is NOT grain free. Blue has a formula that is not grain free that has some Taurine in it……

    Kathy

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Kathy W.
    #119621 Report Abuse

    Carol C
    Member

    Please look at Dr Josh Stern research into taurine and DCM – no dog food companies are sponsoring this study whatsoever. Go to Facebook Taurine deficiency – Learn all you can. As far as Wellness writing you – all the dog food companies are writing the same thing. Standard Letter. They are not out for your wellbeing nor your dog.

    #119622 Report Abuse

    Mark C
    Member

    Basically my Vet told me the same thing. He recommended science diet: yuck. He said they do so much great work that obviously their food is nutritionally superior. I’m not buying that. Anyway I switch my dogs to a grain inclusive food which does have Pea protein but it way down on the list like ninth or 11th ingredients so I don’t think it’s a big issue. It does have a tad bit of taurine. But, the thing that gets me is the stores, including online merchants, seem to be taking advantage of people switching to green inclusive foods. I bought a 30 pound bag of the Nutro dog food for $40 couple of weeks ago that price is now up to $55! I guess I shouldn’t be surprising that there will be some price gouging.

    #119623 Report Abuse

    Carol C
    Member

    Well I have a golden retriever- I thought I was doing the best and spending money I didn’t have buying Orijen or Acana. Now I am reduced to Purina or Royal C – We (golden retriever owners especially) are advised no peas, lentils, POTATOES – alfalfa and the list goes on and on. I have no idea what to feed anymore! Everyone who has a golden especially should get taurine tested whole blood. I live in Canada and more of a choice in U.S for foods. Best is to rotate, and supplement with toppers as sardines, beef, chicken hearts, egg yolks and some plain yogurt.

    #119624 Report Abuse

    Carol C
    Member

    I personally think now, that a dog food company can make fortune – by coming out with a pea and potato free no preservative – high end – quality etc. etc. All the dog food companies are waiting to see what will happen; they are holding their breath I am sure. It is becoming more evident that for once this is true – and we have a right to be concerned. All the dog companies are defending their food. The **** will hit the fan sooner that you think.

    #119625 Report Abuse

    Eve M
    Member

    After consideration, I’m going back to Orijen although the contaminant numbers are high. I will supplement it with Primal frozen raw and hope the mixture isn’t too much of either. There are no lentils or peas in Orijen.

    I agree with you Carol. It seems like someone could tweak the recipe and leave out tapioca, peas, lentils and potatoes.

    Quinoa? Brown rice? Are these grains on par with lentils?

    Eve

    #119632 Report Abuse

    HoundMusic
    Member

    “I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.”

    I have to disagree with this assessment of UC Davis very vigorously. Purina has been instrumental in helping their canine genetics research department, and in fact I just received an issue of Today’s Breeder detailing the progress UC Davis has already made in studying intervertebral disc disease, which is just epidemic in certain bloodlines of my breed. We now have new knowledge that may, in fact, assist breeders in making better decisions without a screening test, however, hopefully they will develop one in the future. UC Davis also was solely responsible for developing a screening test for Musladin-Leuke Syndrome, which was seriously beginning to cripple the gene pool of show Beagles. To imply that their research is somehow less trustworthy because a company such as Purina donates to them (research isn’t conducted for free, last I checked), is not a sentiment I will ever understand. If Wellness had donated a portion of their proceeds, would UC Davis be more reputable?

    /end rant… carry on 🙂

    #119634 Report Abuse

    haleycookie
    Member

    Eve- Orijen does have lentils in it. Quite a bit so if that bothers you I wouldn’t suggest Orijen.
    The issue with having a grain free pea, potatoe, tapioca free food is it expensiveeeee. Dr elsey recently released a cat food that doesn’t contain any of these ingredients. The binder is gelatin (bone marrow) and for a 5-6 lbs bag is nearly 60$. Doesn’t make sense for companies to create a product like that that’s 99% meat product when it’s going to be so expensive. Most if not all dog food companies are in the business of making money. They don’t really care about your animals. They are focused on making food that is as cheap as possible for THEM so they can mark it up for the consumer. As sad as it is if you really want to avoid all of these issues that’s going on in commercial dog food you would just make your own dog food because there’s no escaping all the crap dog food companies throw at customers. Bottom line they don’t care, champion foods doesn’t care, purina doesn’t care, mars doesn’t care, Colgate/Hill’s doesn’t care, none of them care about anything more than making money in the cheapest way possible for them. Money makes the world go round and for any of us to think pet food companies are any different is very naive.

    #119635 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    I actually have that same issue of Today’s Breeder next to me on my desk right now! I really enjoyed the article on IVDD and am very thankful personally for the research U.C Davis does.

    I’d be curious as to if the people who get up in arms about Purina donating money to fund research that otherwise might not get done, would get that mad if it was oh idk, Champion Pet Foods?

    #119639 Report Abuse

    Eve M
    Member

    Thank you Haley re: the lentils, peas and Orijen. Yes, if I am to understand and believe the ingredient breakdown: 85% poultry, fish and eggs; 15% botanicals, vegetables, fruits.

    The logic being that there’s substantially less? Is this an incorrect interpretation? If so, please inform.

    TY
    Eve

    #119640 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    Just to err on the side of caution till they complete the investigation regarding “grain-free” dog foods, which may turn out to be nothing.
    I have decided to try Fromm Classic Adult for one of my dogs, take a look https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/classic/dry/#adult

    Also, I think the key may be to add taurine rich foods such as boiled egg to the kibble with a splash of water. Consider the kibble to be the base and not the entire meal.

    Otherwise, I am not giving up on Zignature, my dogs have been doing very well on it. No potatoes!

    #119641 Report Abuse

    Patricia A
    Member

    Anon Fromm has the beet pulp though with lower protein.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4971673/ Don’t think potatoes are a problem?

    #119642 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    Fromm is not a low protein diet (formula I mentioned: Crude Protein 23% MIN) no dog foods that meet aafco standards are, especially if you use the kibble as a base and add to it. Boiled egg, chopped boiled chicken meat, etc.
    I avoid dog foods that are potato laden. That’s just common sense.

    PS: Potatoes are mentioned just as prominently as legumes are in the FDA investigation. People just don’t want to see it.

    #119643 Report Abuse

    anon101
    Member

    Also, the formula I mentioned does not have beet pulp (incorrect, see below) https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/classic/dry/#adult
    For normally active adult dogs. Naturally formulated with chicken, brown rice, real cheese, and whole eggs
    Ingredients
    Chicken, Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, White Rice, Chicken Fat, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Whole Egg, Beet Pulp, Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Sulfate, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.
    Oops! beet pulp listed as the 10th ingredient. Big deal 🙂

    #119647 Report Abuse

    Patricia A
    Member

    LOL Anon. Just can’t win. My dogs were on Fromm for years and did great. I switched to Stella and Chewy’s because I thought the hype about it being BAKED and less processed of course would be healthier .I don’t know but my three love the kibble. It’s also a smaller bag and now that I use very little as a base to freeze dried it stays fresher. But now I look at the ingredients on their small breed red meat and peas are their third ingredient. On their f/b page this is their reply to all the concerns regarding this: “we are aware of the FDA release dated July 12 regarding a potential association between reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, and certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. We have no indication that any of our products are involved in FDA’s investigation. We work closely with veterinarians and nutritionists to ensure that our diets are complete and balanced and meet AAFCO requirements. Please know that our freeze-dried raw and frozen raw diets are free of peas, lentils and potatoes, and contain less than 1% of the legume seed fenugreek. Also, we do add taurine to our raw and kibble diets. We continue to be confident in the safety and nutritional quality of all of our diets. We appreciate the work that FDA does on behalf of pet parents, and will monitor this investigation as it unfolds.” Stupid response when the problem possibly IS regarding legumes. lol
    I do like the ingredients of that Fromm recipe though. Like I said I only use it as a very little base to the freeze dried. I think will switch it up again with the Fromm that doesn’t have all the peas regardless of the beet pulp. Thank’s for sharing that.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Patricia A.
    #119704 Report Abuse

    Angela S
    Member

    crazy4cats, what do you feed your dogs? i’m torn on this issue; i have been feeding my dog food for a while that contains peas, and i’m worried. i’m also not so sure corn is as bad as it is made out to be, so i’m considering IAMS pro health possibly, but exploring other options, as well.

    #119708 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Hi Angela S-
    That’s a great question! I’m trying to figure that out. LOL! Right now I am feeding Fromm Gold Weight Management. It is a little high in fiber so I may switch to their Reduced Activity Formula. I have also fed a lot of kibble that contains peas and potatoes. But, I am not worried. They are not showing any signs of DCM. However, they just got over a bad case of kennel cough. The coughing scared me at first with it being a symptom of DCM. But, it’s all gone now. They even had the Bordatella vaccine! I guess it is very bad in our area right now and their can be different strains, just like the flu.

    So, I have done a 180 since I started on this site. I don’t believe the big companies are evil and I will probably stick with them in addition to Fromm. I really don’t think corn is bad as long as you are feeding a reputable brand that uses high quality corn, grade 1 or 2. I have fed Iams and they are on my list to feed again. In fact, I think corn makes the dogs coat soft and shiny.

    Here are a few interesting links about corn:
    https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/natural-foods/can-dogs-eat-corn/
    http://www.askavetquestion.com/nutrition/corn/

    I also have Purina One, Purina Pro Plan, Authority, Eagle Pack (Made by WellPet) and Iams on my list to feed. Iams is made by Mars who also makes Royal Canin. I feed my cats RC kibble and mostly Purina canned. RC is too expensive to feed my two 85 pound lab/retriever mix pups though.

    Even though my dogs do well on kibble with potatoes and peas, I will not be feeding them if they are the only carbs in the kibble anymore. At least until more information comes out. I also add a little canned to their meals, hopefully adding a little more meat protein to their diets.

    Good luck. This is a scary and frustrating time.

    #119720 Report Abuse

    Angela S
    Member

    thanks for your input c4c. i appreciate your sharing this information. i guess i’ll just monitor my dog’s health and hope for the best. she seems healthy. only issue i’ve had with her recently is soft poop (hard to pick up and sticking to the grass), which is why i changed foods to up her fiber to see if that would help. currently, i’m feeding my dog american journey salmon and rice. before that was grain free whole earth farms turkey and chicken.

    how would we know what grade corn is in the food?

    #119728 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    You’re welcome. I have fed a lot of WEF grain free as well. You know one of their grain inclusive formulas uses oatmeal as one of its main carbs. I might check that one out as well. My dogs do well with oatmeal when I make them a homemade meal.
    As far as what grade of corn is used in the food, many brands websites will state what grade they use. If not you can email or call them.

    In fact, I just emailed Iams and here is their reply:

    Thank you for contacting the IAMS® Brand.

    We appreciate your interest in our IAMS® ProActive Healthy Labrador Retriever dry dog food and I am happy to address your inquiry.

    We can proudly say that all of our corn comes for the United States. While our corn is harvested from multiple different states, we can assure you that all of corn suppliers have passed through our Supplier Quality Assurance program, in which they must meet and preferably exceed our internal quality requirements, as well as the requirements of regulatory bodies. Additionally, we only use high-quality corn that is finely ground to break up the outside covering of each kernel, then cooked at high temperatures. This process makes the corn meal in our foods highly digestible and an excellent carbohydrate source.

    I hope this is helpful. If you have additional questions or comments feel free to give us a call at 1-800-525-4267, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Central time.

    Have a great day!

    Sincerely,

    Kathryn
    IAMS® Brand
    Consumer Relations
    1-800-525-4267

    They don’t really say what grade so I am going to reply and see if I can get a more specific answer.

    #119729 Report Abuse

    Reese B
    Member

    My dog gets horribly itchy when she eats foods that have grains in them….I have no choice but to feed her grain free. In an abundance of caution with this report, I’m only going to feed her foods that have legumes or potatoes as the 6th or more ingredient. However, this only leaves me with 2 foods in my rotation (Nutrience subzero and Valens).
    Does anyone have an recommendations for grain free foods that don’t have legumes or potatoes in their first 5 ingredients? (Other than Orijen, her poops weren’t good on that brand, and with all the contamination/lawsuit/buy out rumors I’m not going to chance it with that one.)

    Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. 🙂

    #119730 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Do you now exactly which grain makes your dog itchy? I remember somebody mentioning an Earthborn fish formula that might work for you.

    #119741 Report Abuse

    Reese B
    Member

    Hmm, that’s a good question. When I first got her she was so itchy all the time, she could hardly sleep…it was so sad. When I put her on a grain free food it stopped in a few days. After about a month I tried her on a different food that had brown rice and oatmeal in it. The scratching started almost immediately, so ever since then, I just stuck to grain free and she’d had no problems. I didn’t want her to be itchy while I tested out which foods bothered her skin. I’ll check out earthborn fish formula. Thanks for the suggestion.

    #119742 Report Abuse

    susan k
    Member

    Hi all, I also feed Wellness Core (my dog has been on it since I got him two years ago) and also contacted Wellness by phone. They do add taurine to their formula and told me companies that are suspect are being contacted by the FDA — Wellness has not been contacted. As a helicopter dog mom this wasn’t enough information for me so I did some digging. Wellness Core does have peas as its fifth ingredient — kind of high up the chain — and the problem seems to be that peas, lentils, etc., are blocking taurine absorption, which is what’s causing the problems with heart failure. I spent a lot of time reading labels for other foods and got scared off by all the added chemicals the larger manufacturers use. I considered home cooking, but I’ve had some experience with this and it can be hard to find the right supplements to add — my last dog loved home cooking but hated the supplement powder I was adding to her food. So I asked my vet if they could run a taurine test on my dog, my theory being that if after two years on Wellness Core his taurine level is OK the added taurine to the food is enough to head off heart problems. My vet thought that was a reasonable approach and said they usually run taurine tests (simple blood test) on cats but it can be run on dogs. I scheduled my dog for a taurine test. If you decide to try this, be sure it’s done right — my dog had blood drawn today but because they don’t do this very often the vet tech put the sample in the wrong tube and they have to draw more blood and do it again. I scheduled for Tuesday morning and should have the results back later next week. I will post the results in case people are interested in whether Wellness Core is still one of the safer foods.

    #119750 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Yes, please post the results if you don’t mind. I’m very interested. I use BalanceiT supplement to balance my dogs’ homemade meals. It hardly has any smell or taste to it.

    Hope your pup passes with flying colors!

    #119751 Report Abuse

    Acroyali
    Member

    anon101

    Member
    “Also, the formula I mentioned does not have beet pulp (incorrect, see below) https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/classic/dry/#adult
    For normally active adult dogs. Naturally formulated with chicken, brown rice, real cheese, and whole eggs”

    (From Fromm’s website (that looks like a great company, IMO)
    “A holistic approach to complete and balanced nutrition for each life stage and lifestyle. Available in three categories: Fromm Heartland Gold (grain-free red meat), Fromm Gold Coast (grain-free ocean fish), and our original Fromm Gold (duck, chicken, & lamb).”

    A *HOLISTIC APPROACH.*
    How homeopathic of you <g>

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 141 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.