[Spy Car]

@ Patty R, starting my (now 4.5 year-old) Vizsla as an 8-week old puppy eating a balanced PMR diet from day one is one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

Like anyone who is conscientious, I had read a great deal of conflicting information, including the scare tactics on such disreputable websites as “SkeptVet.” I made a deal with my wife that we would proceed, but would abandon the raw diet if there were any problems.

Instead, both our highest expectations have been surpassed. Our dog has thrived. His teeth are still pearly white, he’s super lean and very well muscled, and has both great energy and endurance, but is also calm when he’s not working and winds down in the house. His coat is soft, his eyes are clear, the amount of stool is scant, and I’m frequently told he “looks like a supermodel.”

Our vet (very traditional) has breed knowledge (she actually owns my dog’s grand-sire) and she is extremely happy with both his condition and his bloodwork.

I’ve owned may great canine athletes in my long years owning and training dogs. I only wish I’d know about PMR style raw feeding sooner, I have some feelings of guilt that I fed my dogs such crap in my former ignorance of optimal canine nutrition.

There is no comparison between the condition achieved with feeding a dog what their species was shaped by evolution to thrive on vs the unnatural cereal-based products that are supplemented with plant proteins and rendered meats. The differences are not subtle. When I meet a raw fed dog I know it without a word form its owner. I’ve had other raw feeders (complete strangers) come up and say “I see you raw feed.” It is that obvious a difference.

Feeding a balanced raw diet is the best thing one can do for their canine companions.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi Heytsu,

Change vets ASAP sounds like you have a vet that doesn’t know what she is doing??, some vets are awful, same happened with me with my Boxer years ago, now I have a rescue Staffy named Patch who has IBD we had to see 3 vets before we found a really good vet that wasnt into just feeding these vet diets, vet diets don’t agree with some dogs…. Vet should of prescribe “Metronidazole” antibiotic for stomach & bowel taken twice a day every 12 hours with a meal… for 14-21 days

Alot of dogs who have IBS/IBD symptoms do very well on a grainfree dry food that has limited ingredients & have Sweet Potato & Potato & only has 1 meat protein, what country do you live?
I live Australia & we get the Royal Canine Sensitivity Control & so does Europe/UK
My Patch did really bad on all the Hills & Royal Canine vet diets, the only vet diet that worked was the Eukanuba Intestinal Low Residue dry kibble, take vet diet food back & get a refund & see another vet, go on a day your vet isnt there & say I do not want to see her again, thats what I did when Patches vet wouldnt listen & change him form the Royal Canine Hypoallergenic vet diet, it only has 1% fiber this could be the problem, something is wrong with your dog..
I did Endoscope & 2 x Biopsies you need to do biopsies so vet can see whats wrong, Ultra Scan is NO good, its a waste of money as it still doesn’t give vet any real answers, Ultra Scan is good if dog has a blockage, the biopsies are the best to do..

Do NOT give any boil any rice as boiled rice can irritates the bowel more sometimes, its very old school boiled rice, now vets recommend boiled potato or sweet potato its more gentle on their stomach & bowel, especially when the bowel is already inflammed, boil some peeled cut up potato & add a lean cooked white meat, like turkey breast, chicken breast or lean pork… feed 3-4 times a day…
Resting the bowel for 24 hours is good to do, Patch had to rest his stomach & bowel for 48hrs you must give electroytes in water every hour in a 20ml syringe if the dog isnt eating long for a long period of time, look for vet that specializes in IBD & is supportive & more into holistic ways & not into pushing vet diets as they can make things worse… rest stomach & bowel 24hrs then restart food some boiled potato or sweet potato & turkey breast 1/2 & 1/2, feed 4 small meals..no treats nothing just the boiled sweet potato or potato & a lean white meat..

Join this facebook group, “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” You’ll get heaps of help..You dont have to fed raw diet to join group…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

When you say Surgery, what type of surgery did your dog have & how old is he??

[Susan]

Hi Patty,

why they say dont feed puppies a raw diet is like Tyrionthebiscuit said, it’s hard to balance a growing dog diet, especially large breed puppy, their bones can grow too quickly & cause osteo problems later when the pup is a fully grown adult, so they say to put the large breed pup on a large breed puppy formula till the dog is 18-24months, then when dog is fully grown then start feeding the large dog a raw diet…
You have a small breed pup you should be right, there’s heaps of balanced premade raw diets & freeze dried dehydrated raw on the market…..
299 most popular dry dog foods are tested every 3 months for heavy metals & contaminates, these 3 brands came 1st, 2nd & 3rd they got 5 stars when tested for toxins, heavy metals & contaminates..

* “Buckley Liberty” Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food the Beef, Lamb & chicken formula’s
* “CaniSource Grand Cru” All Life Stages Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food their Turkey, Lamb & Meat formula’s
* “BIXBI Rawbble” Freeze-Dried Dry Dog foods, their LAmb, Duck Chicken & Salmon formula’s
another good brand I hear people saying is really good is “Answers” fermented raw..

Join a few raw feeding f/b groups there’s Lew Olsons “K-9 Nurition” Lews book is excellent for starting home made raw.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/371592139642185/
Monica Segal “K-9 Kitchen” https://www.facebook.com/groups/K9Kitchen/
also has a few books that are good aswell..
Why alot a vet are against raw feeding is cause they have seen the bad when a raw diet isn’t balance properly like Rickets, Rickets is caused by a lack of vitamin D, calcium or phosphorus.
Good luck you’re on the right track feeding a raw diet…

[LINDA F]

To Patty,
I am a novice at this. From what I understand, a lot of people are feeding their puppies on a raw diet, However a puppy’s dietary needs are different from adult dogs and the ratio of meat to bone to organ meats is different. I have an old pit bull and she had almost stopped eating her kibble and any wet food that I used to entice her to eat. I tried some raw chicken drumsticks with bones, raw chicken wings with bones, raw chicken thighs with bones and an occasional raw chicken liver and she perked up immediately. However, I was told that I was feeding her way too much bone and enough meat or organ meats. I was not feeding the proper ratio but Spy Car’s post really helped me understand how to do it correctly. By the time I memorize all the ratios and I get the hang of feeding the proper ratio to my old girl, my Morkie puppy will have reached her first birthday. If my old girl is still thriving on the raw diet, I may introduce the Morkie to the raw diet and see if she does as well. However, and this is strictly my own opinion and I am in no way qualified to give you professional advice, but I am going to wait for my Morkie reach one year before I begin introducing her to the raw diet. Just be aware that feeding a raw diet is more trouble than just pouring some kibble in a bowl or opening a can of dog food. Good luck!
Linda

[LINDA F]

To Spy Car,
Oh, thank you so much! I am printing this mail for reference until I develop an eye for what I’m doing. The way you explained it makes it so much easier and I’m pretty sure I can do this now! I was just overwhelmed and confused by all the conflicting info I found when trying to research a raw diet! My old pit bull just loves the raw chicken and she is doing so much better. Now I will be more confident that I am not killing her with it.
Again thank you for taking your time to help a stranger.
Linda

[anonymous]

You can believe Science Based Veterinary Medicine.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

Nothing is being sold at the above site. No membership fees. No supplements No books. Nothing.

[Patty R]

I have just joined this site and have read a number of comments. The one thing worrying me about a raw diet is that I saw a complete article extolling the value of raw food feeding on which the last sentence was basically, “PUPPIES should not be fed a raw food diet.” I have a four month old miniature Schnauzer and don’t know who to believe. Based on what all of you have seen, is it best to wait until the puppy is grown before starting?

[Spy Car]

Linda, it is not super complex, but there is a ratio of minerals (calcium to phosphorus) that needs to be maintained.

You can do that by making soft edible bone about 10% of the diet.

Here are some bone percentages of common chicken parts:

Chicken Breast (with ribs) 20%
Thigh: 21%
Leg Quarter 28%
Drumstick 30%
Chicken Wings 46%

You can balance by eye. Say you are feeding a drumstick. They are 30% bone. If you figured in parts of 10, a drumstick would provide 2 parts of ten in meat and one part of 10 in bone.

So if you fed two portions of boneless meat that are approximately the same size as the drumstick, you’d have 3 parts of meat from the first portion, 3 parts of meat from the second portion, plus 2 parts of meat from the chicken drumstick. So 8 parts of ten altogether, which hits the target of 80% “meat.”

The drumstick would provide the 10% soft edible bone.

No need to weigh this. You can estimate.

The last 1/10 is organ. You can (despite what someone told you) feed liver every day. However, only half the organs should be liver. The “other” should be things like kidney, sweetbreads (thymus and pancreatic glands), melts (spleen), etc).

To make my life easier I freeze organs in sizes that match 10% of the diet and then alternate days. The first day is a “lever day” and the next is an “other” day. If you can only get beef kidney, that’s OK.

Don’t be dissuaded from beef heart because of one story on the internet. Beef heart is highly nutritious and tends to be inexpensive. Fatty pork like leg, shoulder, and butt are economical too.

Do add new proteins slowly. Smaller to larger pieces.

It is not super complicated to balance bone. If you take a little time to estimate (by eye and using the weight on meat packages as a guide) you will soon find portioning second nature. Meals can be a little over or under on any given day, the key is to be in the general ballpark over time.

Overfeeding bone over the long-term can lead to very bad health consequences. It is one of the legitimate criticisms of raw diets if and when people don’t feed in reasonable approximation to 10% bone. 10% bone and 10% organs, combined with 80% meat, will give your dog the most optimal nutrition.

Carbohydrates in a canine diet directly reduce stamina and energy. But cutting these out as much as possible you should see the renewed vigor you’ve already noticed maintain or increase. Unfortunately, many “senior” dog formulas start cutting protein and fat (and increasing carbs) at the life stage where older dogs are already losing energy. It is the worst possible approach and one that will advance lethargy.

I hope this helps you.

Bill

[heytsu l]

Hi,

My dog has been having loose stool issue for a few months now. He has been on Orijen since he was a puppy, which was fine but after his surgery and switch to the adult formula things have not got back to normal. I’ve tried feeing him a raw diet but he kept regurgitating and then refused to touch anything raw all together, switched back to dry food this time Belcando lamb and rice formula ,which improved the situation a bit but the stool still wasn’t great. After that I’ve been feeding him Terra Canis grain free cans ,which he loved and things were similar as on the lamb & rice dry food; I still had to clean his butt multiple times a week because of soft or runny stool.

The vet suggested Royal Canin Sensitivity Control, which made things better the first week or so but after that things kept getting worse. His stool went back to loose and he kept licking the floor ,which he has never done before. They tested his stool for parasites and it came out clear. Now the vet told me to feed him Royal Canin Hypoallergenic formula for six weeks exclusively. And then if that doesn’t work, we will look further.

He has been on this formula only two days and he has woken me up at five in the morning both days, desperate to potty with full blown diarrhea. He also shakes his head, and scratches his ear a lot. He has been farting all evening yesterday. The smell was horrendous. Could he just be adapting to the new food or is it already showing that this is not the right type of food for him? I’m a little lost as far as what the best thing to do is right now. I want to listen to my vet but it’s been going on for so long with little to no testing done that I’m starting to get a little impatient. How long before I can safely say the food is making things worse/ or at least not helping? What can I request from the vet other than a blood test (she didn’t want to do it until we try this food)?

[Susan]

Hi Patrica,

Which Stella & Chewy formula are you talking about? I quickly looked up a few of the Stella & Chewy different formula’s & they all seems to have 2 meats as 1st & 2nd ingredients, the Raw coated Kibble Chicken formula ingredients look OK
Chicken, chicken meal, chickpeas, peas, chicken liver, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), chicken heart, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil,

If a dry kibble said, Chicken, pea/corn, lentils/chickpeas, tapioca/potatoes etc I would NOT buy it as the meat protein being “chicken” isnt a chicken meal & ingredients are listed when they’re raw not cooked so after the chicken is cooked it shrinks, 70% is water so the Lentils/chickpeas come 1st then either the peas/corn or the tapioca/potatoes come 2nd then the Chicken moves up the ingredient list depending how heavy the other ingredients are?…So I stay away from these type of pet foods now, Patch doesnt do well on high carb diets..
But if the dry kibble said Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey meal, Potatoes, Peas, Chickpeas then you know this dry kibble is higher in meat proteins not plant proteins. I wish these pet food companies had to list all the protein % in all ingredients, Earthborn Holistic Venture kibble does & I think Victor does aswell..
You’d think it would be the same with a raw food…but NO cause the raw doesnt get cooked so the meat proteins stay at 1st & 2nd ingredients etc same with freeze dried/dehydrated raw ingredients they are not cooked, maybe this is why DFA gives Stella & Chewy 5 stars?? or his dog eats it & does very well on Stella & Chewy lol

Make sure you have at least 2-3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd 3rd & if lucky 4th ingredient, my Patch has improved so much since eating a higher meat protein kibble, I use to think he couldn’t handle a high meat dry kibble, I’ve worked out it was the Kcals they were toooo HIGH, the higher the Kcals the more dense is the dry kibble so it’s harder to digest & as they get older their digestive tract slows down.. Patch gets his pain stomach/pancreas when Kcals are over 370Kcals per cup so now I look for at least 2-4 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredients then a carb.

I belong to an Dogs with IBD Raw Feeding Holistic Support f/b group & I always see people recommending “Answers Fermented Raw” Answers is suppose to be “very good quality” raw food, I read about all these very sick dogs with IBD doing really well since coming off their vet diet (well that isnt too hard lol) or a premium dry kibble & since starting Answers raw food & their Fermented Goats milk these dogs is doing very well…
Have you tried Answer pet food ? I want to try the Goats Milk I’ll buy human quality goats milk.. Patch gets some of my cup of tea every morning so I’ll replace the tea with warm goats milk instead & see how he goes…
https://www.answerspetfood.com/products.html

[Kerry M]

Hello all, I apologize in advance, this is going to be a long story. My boy Sam is a 12 year old beagle. He had been on Wellness Core for a couple of years when I decided to put him on a raw diet (not a commercial one – gave him chicken and turkey necks, pork necks, beef, etc, with the recommended ratio of organs, bones, and meat). I started that in June of last year. In March, he started coughing and had trouble breathing, so we rushed him to the pet ER where they diagnosed him with congestive heart failure. The day after we brought him home he was unable to urinate, and we took him back to the vet and he had a bladder stone blocking his urethra. They were able to flush it back into his bladder and put him on Royal Canin SO to dissolve it. At the time they said his white blood cells were elevated, and tested him for a bladder infection, which came up positive. For the last six months he has been on different antibiotics trying to clear up the infection, and we have been seeing an internal medicine specialist for about a month now. They did an ultrasound and he still had the bladder stone, and put him on Hill’s S/D, despite the high sodium content that would put a strain on his heart. He had a urine culture again last week that again came up positive. The specialist called me today and said the bacteria is now resistant to all medication and she feels that he needs surgery to remove the stone. Naturally I am terrified to let him go under anesthesia with his heart condition, but I know if the infection continues it can lead to kidney issues. If anyone can weigh in with experience with resistance to antibiotics and/or pets having surgery with CHF, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[LINDA F]

Hi Bill!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!! I was afraid the bones might be a problem but every time I tried to get a straight answer, they would start talking about calcium and phosphorus and what % to what % of meat and then adjust that to the dog’s weight plus adding a certain % of green veggies and fruits, and my eyes would roll back in my head! Just teasing but as you read in my posts, I am an old lady and unfortunately I also have macular degeneration so trying to get a scale with numbers large enough for me to read but still capable of weighing things less than 10 lbs is near impossible. Also one of the posts I read on this site stated her dog was doing fine on a raw diet until she gave it a beef heart and now the dog is critically ill! I’m already as skittish as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs about feeding her the raw diet so I certainly do not want to add something that could be dangerous to her! Could I just substitute deboned chicken thighs instead of the legs and thighs with bones? Would just one chicken wing with bones and two deboned chicken thigh with a couple of gizzards/hearts and a quarter cup of beef or chicken liver every day be okay for the once a day raw feeding while she is still eating 14 oz of wet food and approximately 1-2 cups of kibble where she will still get some of the minerals etc she needs to flourish? Was the guy who said feeding liver everyday incorrect and not dangerous after all as long as I do not feed her too much liver every day? I am simply incapable of weighing her raw food every day and adding more measured items at the right % of each. I have always been very independent so I hate to keep harping on my age and the limits on my abilities but I order my groceries from Walmart and once a week my son will come over and drive me to the pick up dept to pick up my ordered groceries before he has to be at his work. He often works 6 days a week. There are not many butcher shops in the small town where I live. He does not have time to drive me around to meat markets to buy the things that Walmart does not stock. They do not carry beef hearts but they do carry beef liver! I have shied away from buying roasts or large cuts of meat due to having to cut them up and weigh them to get the right proportions. I could easily cut up the beef liver and feed her a quarter cup or half cup, whatever would not be dangerous for her. Using a measuring cup is no problem since I have individual measuring cups and can tell which is which. Measuring by weight is another matter altogether. I really do appreciate your post and it has confirmed my gut feeling that perhaps I was including too much bone. But, lordy me, does that dog love to crunch up those bones! She is okay with the thighs and drumsticks but does not relish them as much as she does those chicken wings! Surely one wing with bones is not too much bone in her every day diet? She weighs about 65-70 lbs. If I cut out the kibble and wet dog food, she would not get enough food to satisfy her hunger and I simply cannot measure all those items in the proper percents to put her on a completely raw diet. She was pretty close to giving up until I added the (to me) small amount of raw food to her regular diet. Before adding the raw diet, she sometimes would not really eat much for several days at a time. Now she is eating almost all the wet food and almost all the kibble and every bite of the raw chicken every day! I truly apologize for being such a pain but I honestly appreciate what you have suggested. I forgot to mention that she is also on thyroid medication which she gets twice a day. Sincerely, Linda

[Spy Car]

Linda, great to read about the beneficial effects on your old girl. Reducing carbs and increasing fat and protein is the dietary means of increasing energy and muscle building.

I’m not a bit surprised you are seeing benefits.

I have one quibble with the raw feeding approach you are using thus far. Too much bone. Way too much bone. The target percentage should be about 10%. You are probably pushing 28-30%. No done harm in the short term, that that much calcium to phosphorus will cause a mineral imbalance. You need to add more meat to this mix. Preferably that would include some red meat (beef heart is very nutritious and often inexpensive) and some fatty (cheap) pork (like leg or butt).

I’d also add beef kidney at 5% of total diet. The organs provide the vitamins. Supplements are unnecessary, but organs are critical.

If you make these adjustments you could stop the kibble.

I hope your dog feels better and better.

Bill

[LINDA F]

Hi! Okay, here is my story and do not take this as informed or a professional opinion. I have kept 3 dogs in my home for most of my adult life and I am now 75! All dogs are seen by my vet several times a year including a full “WELLNESS” check up once a year. I currently have a 12 year old rescued pit bill that is so sweet and a joy to have around. On her last check up, her liver values were very high. So my trusted vet of 20 yrs told me it could be a mass in her belly, Cushings Disease or liver disease. I asked what can I do. His first recommendation was to do a liver ultra scan which did not show anything out of the normal except it looked that it might have “sludge”. His next step was to advise a liver biopsy which due to her age and need for anesthesia, could be fatal, plus it is costly. Or we could do a stomach exploration but the same warnings were in effect and again very costly. So I asked a simple question, what treatment would be employed should it be a stomach mass or Cushings? He said he would not really change what he was already we were already doing. I then told him that since the tests were so expensive, I did not need to know the name of the exact malady that was killing her if it would not treated differently. I then asked him would he do if it were his dog? His reply was due to her advanced age and the very large risk anesthetic posed to her, that if it were his dog, he would not chance it. Twelve years is a respectful old age for a dog and he would just try to make her comfortable and happy for her remaining time with us. Now she did not appear to be in any discomfort but of course with a dog, you cannot always tell that. It’s not like they can tell you “My tummy hurts”. However I did notice that her energy levels and appetite were dropping and she began to lose weight and muscle mass. I have a friend who is a certified dog trainer. I was whining to him about feeling useless to help my dear old companion and he suggested that I try a raw diet. I told him at 75, I am really not up to weighing meat to combine with a list of dog supplements that have to be purchased and are sometimes hard to find, then measure all those to mix with steamed vegetables to go along with the raw chicken parts. So I just made this diet up. I feed her one can of a premium wet food for breakfast around 6am. She sometimes eats all of it and sometimes just nibbles at it. Around noon, I feed her one raw drumstick, one raw thigh, and one raw chicken wing, all with bones. I buy the same chicken as I feed my family so I am hoping they are safe for her! I also buy a package of hearts and gizzards and a package of raw chicken livers. I add to the raw chicken a couple of gizzards and hearts. I read from a raw diet blog that you should not feed raw livers every day but 2-3 times a week. I can manage that! She eats every scrap left in the bowl and then licks it to make sure she got every morsel! Then at night I give her a cup or two of Zignature kibble. Again sometimes her bowl is licked clean in the morning, sometimes it is just nibbled on but over all, she mostly eats everything I put in her bowl! Wonders of wonders! She has put back the weight she had lost and is building muscle mass! No, she is no where near gaining enough weight to make her fat but her energy levels are up, her coat is shiny and she once again seems to be really enjoying her life. I figured if all these premium diets touted that they have all the proper amount of supplements a dog needs and she usually eats almost everythingl, that perhaps I don’t have to kill my own old silly self trying to keep her alive and happy! Just to make sure you do not misunderstand me, if she were my one and only dog, I would probably be able to do all the searching for supplements and weighing etc but I also have a year old Morkie and an 8 month old Rottweiler that I feed twice a day. I do not feed the other two dogs a raw diet. As a treat once or twice a week, I will feed the Morkie a chicken liver or a heart or a gizzard but since the Rotty is a large breed dog and still growing, she does not get any raw chicken parts. The other two dogs have no problems eating wet dog/kibble each day and are thriving so no reason to rock the boat for them by changing their diet! I don’t know if I am doing the right thing with my old pit bull. All I know is that for the last two months, since I began the diet above, my old pit bull seems eager to eat. She looks forward to her early morning walks once more, is alert and even goes out to play with the two young pups. Now, she does not chase them as she would have when she was younger, but she seems to enjoy trotting a few yards as they streak by her while she is wagging her tail and barking! I may be doing all the wrong things and hastening her death but my conscious is clear since she appears to be enjoying her life now and before she just looked and acted old and feeble. Again, this is just my own solution and it has NOT been approved by any professional. Please no hate mail but I would welcome any comments or suggestions that do not require a large amount of my own decreasing energy levels. Oh yeah, at first I tried adding the freeze dried raw food by Stella (?) to their Zignature kibble but none of my dogs really cared for it.
Thanks for reading this long email but I think it’s an old age thing! LOL!!!
Sincerely,
Linda

[Susan]

Hi Jill,
I had a Boxer Angie she had Mast Cell Tumors diagnosed age 8yrs old, she wasnt her happy self, no more she was sleeping more, didn’t want to go on her daily walks or come in the car shopping, her poos became black, vomiting blood, so I took her to see the RSPCA vet where I adopted her from 6yrs before, the vet asked me has she eaten breakfast this morning, I said no Ang eats breakfast at 11am, the vet said I want to remove these lumps ASAP now they don’t look good, I said but I seen another vet where I live about 1 yr ago, the vet said not the vet on Darby st, please say no, I said yes, we always walk past to go to the beach & one day I seen her out the front with another vet who was visiting from America, I stopped & I showed them both her wierd looking lump on the back of her leg, they BOTH said its nothing, its just an old lady wort, its nothing to worry about, this RSPCA vet just shook her head & said if these lumps were removed 1 yr year ago the cancer wouldn’t be as this advanced….Angie had a few Mast Cell tumors 1 on back of her leg & other lumps & bumps all were removed she looked a Quit, full of patches everywhere, 1/2 of her nipples were removed, when I came to take her home that afternoon, the vet said we have removed more then we thought, she wasnt allowed to come home & had to stay the night the poor thing….
She had another operation as some of the Mast Cell Tumors came back within 3months of removing, my mum said, let her go Susan, I said but she looks good, the little bit of weight she had lost made her her perfect weight 30kg, then she was cancer free BUT she didn’t get better, so the RSPCA vet said you can do Endoscope to see if she has Ulcers from the Mast Cell Tumors as the Mast Cell sets off histimines that attacks the stomach..So I was reffered to another vet that had the Endoscope Camera, it became the vet practice where I go now & take my Staffy Patch who has IBD…
My Angie never got better it was all down hill, I wish I listened to the first vet from the RSPCA when he said, I can put her to sleep on the back seat of your car, I thought to myself, Im not putting my Angie to sleep on my back seat of my car… I was thinking what will I do without my Angie, I cant put her to sleep its all too quick, the same vet did say to me, you have to be strong Susan, Angie sounds like she has been there for you 6 years now? so its your turn now to help her…. I couldn’t put her to sleep, my daughter couldnt PTS either, so I wasted another few thousand dollars doing Endoscope, she had no ulcers & the stupid vet didnt do any biospies, so the Endoscope was pointless but I didnt know all this back then 2009 now I do….
Angie was put on ant acid meds Zantac & Carafate, other medications Valium, Pain meds that made her feel very sick, nausea, vomit, I dont think she could take the Prednisone she took something else similiar, I cant remember the name its started with S she was also put on Hills Z/D dry food in the end & this caused extream stomach pain & she refused to eat it, I told the new vet & he said, Oh she’s just spoilt she’ll eat it, I have found male vets are heartless when it comes to a sick dog, I prefer lady vets & lady vet nurses..
We had had another sleepless 1/2 of the night again up 12am-3am, Angie crying with her pain, so I ended up ringing a mobil vet 8.30am Saturday morning, the mobil vet came 9am & he said gee are you sure she is sick, she started running around all excited we had a visitor, the vet said, she’s in really good condition, then I showed him Angies vet folder, all her tests, her operations, all the meds we had tried & they didnt help etc then he gave her a valium injection, then I talked to Angie for 20mins told her we are going for a walk to the beach I’ll see you at the beach Ang & the vet put her to sleep, he said she’ll have green dreams now…Finally she was painfree… I couldnt fix my Angie, she never had a sick day in her life until she turned 8yrs old, she could eat anything, she was a beautiful dog, a real lady … 🙁

The Nature’s Logic canned rabbit food you’re feeding is 7%min fat, when you convert that to dry matter (Kibble) this is around 35-40%max fat, this would be too high in fat for Nilla, you’re better off cooking & making her a bland diet with lean white meats like Turkey breast, lean Pork, I know you said No pork but the Natures Logic wet can rabbit food has Pork liver in it, she’ll probably do really well on pork, alot of IBD dogs do very well eating sweet Potato, white Potato, Gluten Free Pasta, I know she needs to have some fat in her diet to gain some weight, but is Nilla still on Predisone & the ant acid blocker Losec? if not put her back on the Losec 20mg given every morning, also you cannot just stop the Prilosec once its been taken for 3-4 weeks it must be slowley reduced as all the hydrochloric acid come rushing back into stomach all at once until the stomach acid go back to normal..Taking an acid blocker might make her want to eat again or reduce the fat in her diet with cooked lean meals & see does she get her appetite back again?? My IBD boy takes Pantoprazole 20mg now its an ant acid blocker, he did take Losec for 2 years then it didn’t seem to work…..
If you still want to feed wet can food look at either a low fat vet diet Royal Canine HP or Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat or Hills I/d Low Fat Stew can food, as these wet can foods are under 8% in fat so they’re 1.7%-2%max fat is written on the canof food, so when converted to Dry Mater (DM) they’re 7-8% in fat & wont cause as bad acid reflux…
No wet can foods or premade raw food, fat % protein % fiber % is converted yet…
or look at “Walk About”
http://walkaboutpetproducts.com/dog-food/
“Walk About” has Rabbit, Kangaroo, Boar, Quail, Duck, the fat is 2%min & isn’t converted, the moisture is 82% so when you convert the fat it will be higher, when you see 78% Moisture this is better, the fat will be a bit lower…. I converted the fat in the Walk About Rabbit formula & it’s around 11.11%min fat, same with the Walk About kangaroo formula, The Walk About wet can foods are heaps lower in fat then the Nature Logic Rabbit formula.. It’s best to email Walk About or other dog food companies who sell wet can foods you want to try & ask them can you have the fat convertion to dry matter please.
eg- when you see 5%min fat, 78% moisture on a wet can of dog food, this 5%min fat when converted will be around 20%min fat to 26% max fat…

Here’s a Dog Food Guaranteed Analysis Calculator link, save it…

Dog Food Calculators

If you can cook, cook & freeze small meals, I make rissoles balls, I buy 1kg = 2lbs of lean 5 star Beef or Pork mince low fat, I whisk 1 egg, add to the beef mince some freshly chopped parsley & add about 1 teaspoon parsley, then I chop a few small brocolli heads & grate 1 small peeled carrot, mix all together & make either 1/4 cup size rissole balls or 1/2 a cup size rissole balls & put on a foil lined baking tray & bake for 15mins take out drain any water/fat turn over the rissole balls then bake for another 15mins till ready do not over cook as you’ll have leather rissoles, you can eat these rissoles with some mashed potatoes, I also boil 1 peeled cut up sweet potato then boil then cool & freeze those sweet potato in a sandwich clip lock bags & make sure the sweet potato pieces aren’t touching each other if they do touch then when frozen just wack on kicthen bench while still in sandwich bag & they should separate, you can add 1/2 cup size rissole ball & about 1/3 cup boiled sweet potato then I put 1 rissole ball & the sweet potato pieces in a blender & blend your dog will really like the rissoles, you can make turkey breast mince into rissoles & add some boiled Sweet Potato, theyre really nice, also scrambled egg make Nilla 1 scambled egg, what ever your eating as long as its not hot chillie, curry etc she can eats some & feed about 4-5 small meals a day get her back into a rountine & ask vet about ant acid medication..I use Quick eze chews as well for my IBD boy he comes & tells me & looks at the draw that has his meds in it…
The Canine Nutritionist will help but be careful with omega oils as these can cause acid reflux & then Nilla may not want to eat again so be fully intune with Nilla so you know whats wrong, also with the Walk About wet can foods you can boil some potato & add 1/2 wet can food & 1/3 boiled Potato this the potato should firm up her poos..

I hope you find answers & fix Nilla up but if you look into Nilla eyes & they have lost their spark, put her to sleep…its the best thing you can do for Nilla…

[Dennis C]

hello everyone!
I have 1 dog and 1 cat.
both were adopted. the dog came first, given by a neighbour.
the cat was a stray kitten that my brother picked up and nursed to health.

we adore them and give them as much love as we can afford
Mixing dry food with raw food diet. this is because my dogs and cats have different preferences occasionally.

the cat is a lot more picky than the dog.

kiekie (my dog) loves raw bones and raw organ meat (chicken liver, chicken hearts, pig kidney etc)

[Susan]

Hi Harry,

Listen to your brother, a raw diet is the best diet you can feed a dog or a cat..
Dogs & cats have a short digestive tract, it’s made to digest a raw diet, their intestinal tract was not made to digest a high carb, high fiber dry dog food…

Over time watch & you’ll see the difference in both your dogs as they age if your dog continues eating a dry diet, your brothers dog will have a shinner coat, more energy, less pooh, he’ll be leaner & not over weight & look healthier…

Your pup is a large breed dog, his bones are still growing till he’s 18-24months, might be better to feed him his balance “Large breed puppy” dry food until he’s 18months, still give him raw meaty bones as a treat, unless you contact a animal nutritionist who can formulate a raw diet for a growing pup…
Sky Car knows heaps about raw feeding, he can give some advice…

Are you on facebook join a few Canine Raw feeding groups,
also follow “Rodney Habib” & his “Planet Paws” page look at his Video’s https://www.facebook.com/pg/PlanetPaws.ca/videos/?ref=page_internal
Also Follow “Steve Brown” when you follow Rodney you will get to know everyone.

Have you seen all the Toxins Contaminates & Heavy Metals in dry pet foods?
Google Toxins in dogs foods, a site will come up they test the most popular dry wet treats

[Spy Car]

IMO a balanced PMR-style raw food diet (no plants) is the best thing one could do for their dog.

The difference in condition and vitality is not subtle.

Bill

[harry k]

I have a 1 year old Tamaskan Husky and he is fairly large. I typically feed him NutroMax puppy dog food, but lately my brother has been talking up the raw diet he has been feeding his new Doberman. I was about to switch my dog over to Nutro Wild frontier adult dog food since I’ve been giving him puppy food still, but now I’m considering a raw dog food diet. I looked up some articles online and the opinion on it is pretty split both ways. Anyone who is alot more informed on this please share your knowledge!

[Julie M]

Best grain free food without question is a natural balanced raw diet. I tried all the dry dog foods, but after 10 years on a natural diet, I have never regretted it. Probably the only person who did was my vet, because my dogs usually only visit him once a year, and that is for their annual checkup. I have converted so many people over the years, among them several who have had “yeasty” ear infections which virtually disappeared after the swap

[Julie M]

I have two 11 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. The first year of their life they had ear infections, and the last 10 they have had none. I also looked after a friends 2 Cavaliers while she was away on holidays, both had ear infections and constantly needed their ears cleaning. The last 3 years none. The only thing done differently was their diet, natural, not processed. And that means no kibble. Met another lady today, constant ear problems, asked her what she was feeding, I knew her reply, (dried food) Told her about what I feed and she can’t wait to put her dog on a natural raw diet. And these are not just isolated cases, heard the same from many people. And if your dog can’t handle certain proteins, then I guess it’s a process of elimination. It’s not just their ears, they are just so healthy, only time they visit their vet is for an annual checkup

[Melanie B]

Dear Tamara,

I know exactly how you are feeling. 4 years ago, our Sheltie,

Cooper, was diagnosed with Idiopathic Chylothorax. I had never heard of this before. We did opt to have the plural ports surgically inserted, because his lungs were so diminished. We pulled fluid from his chest for approx. one year. I also did a lot of reading about this disease. Because of the fluid buildup in the chest, the chest can become inflamed. So, we started him on 3000 mg of Rutin daily (1000 mg 3 x’s daily). Also, started him on Raw Unfiltered Honey, and sprinkled Ceylon Cinnamon on top (the only cinnamon dogs can have), this is for the inflammation. About 1 Tablespoon of honey with a good sprinkling of cinnamon on top of the meals.. breakfast and dinner. I found Nutro dog food to have the lowest fat count. My dog would not eat the food the Dr recommended.. it was really dry. This was and still is our regimen. Fast forward, our Cooper is now 9. We no longer have to pull fluid, his lungs are again in great condition. You would never know he had ever been sick. I know this is not the case for all dogs diagnosed. But, I wanted you to know this is not necessarily a death sentence, as I had thought. So, we followed the above regimen, along with lots and lots of prayers, and our boy is doing wonderful.

I wish you the absolute best with your baby!!!!!

Sincerely,

Melanie

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

——– Original message ——–

From: Dog Food Advisor <[email protected]>

Date: 9/16/18 5:51 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: [email protected]

Subject: [Dog Food Advisor] Low-fat healthy diet needed

Tamera S wrote:

Been reading through all these posts and could find any recent from Nancy M. I was wondering how things turned out for her baby. Any of these babies really. We are heartbroken, as our 3 & 1/2 year old Sheltie has just been diagnosed with Idiopathic Chylothorax. The specialist I took him to terrified me, and he will not be going back to them even if we decide on surgery. When I told them we wanted to try least invasive options like Rutin and a low fat diet first, she wouldn’t be listen. Then came back telling me they nicked Scout’s lung when draining fluid so now his chest was filling with air! They wanted to keep him overnight, I refused to let them, he is fine, no symptoms they said he would have because of their incompetence. I feel they where just a surgery factory. My regular vet closed her practice and moved out of country on the Friday before this all happened. We are $2000 in. No surgery, just drain and diagnostic. No answers. I have talked to a Holistic doctor and he recommended supplements to ssupport his urinary tract as well. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We love our baby and want to do the best we can to give him the full and active life he deserves.
TIA
Tamera

Post Link: /forums/topic/low-fat-healthy-diet-needed/#post-121737

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[Nancy P]

Hi. I’ve posted here before regarding my two Schnauzers and Dr Marty’s raw freeze dried diet. I guess I’ve been giving this to my dog Kimmie fir about 9 months now. She still loves it and is doing well. Her skin and coat are doing great. Skin issues were the main reason for starting her on this brand of food. She’s had vet work ups in the mean time and all seems to be going well with her. Keeping my fingers crossed that good health continues.
I also had my other dog, Zoe, on Dr Marty’s. She loved it and was doing well but I decided it was getting too expensive to have both dogs on this diet so she had been getting a mixture of vital essentials, Turkey flavor, and Fresh Pets vita chicken and veg. Zoe is doing well and enjoying her meals.
I also added digestive enzymes to both dogs. Somebody on this forum suggested that earlier on.
I hope all of our dogs stay healthy and happy.

[Susan]

Hi,
The only way to know 100% what foods your dog is sensitive too is to do a food elimination diet..
Feed just 1 meat protein & 1 carb for 6 weeks & see does Sophie react” if Sophie doesnt react to the meat protein & carb your feeding then you can add another new ingredient into her diet but you can NOT feed any treats etc, it can take anywhere from 20mins for a reaction to show or take up to 6 weeks to see reactions but my boy reacts within 20mins raw chicken makes his back paw red hot & swell up but if I fed him chicken in a dry kibble he itches, red paws & smells less but he doesnt get the red hot swollen back paws, probably cause dry kibble meats have been broken down & cooked till there’s no real chicken protein left so he doesnt react to the chicken in a kibble as bad…

If you dont want to do raw or cooked elimination diet then best to use a Hypoallergenic vet diet this way you know 100% these vet diets haven’t been cross contaminated….

Baths – make sure you bath weekly or twice a week or as soon as Sophies starts to itch bad, baths wash off any allergens on skin, paws head etc also baths relieve the red itchy skin, I use “Malaseb”medicated shampoo weekly with Patch & I use baby wipes, Cucumber & Aloe wipes & I wipe him down after his walks or after being out the back yard, I use creams like “Bepanthen” Antiseptic Soothing cream for his red itchy rash on stomach & around his doodle from the grass & I use “Sudocrem” on his red paws & inbetween his toes at night is best to apply cream just before bed check out sophies whole body & head he a few baby wipes & wipes her down then apply a cream to any red itchy areas, the Sudocrem acts as a barrier & protects his skin & paws so best to re apply before she goes outside you will start to see a big difference & relieve her itchy skin… its all about routine, wash cream etc & you can get a control on her itchy skin this all helps her a bit & if Winter is coming this is when you start the Elimination diet …
Do you have any roll/loaf kept in the fridge section, that has limited ingredients like FreshPet Vital & try this & give Sophie bath twice a week or weekly, use the creams & baby wipes days she hasnt had a bath & see is she better but the roll loaf must only have 1 meat protein & a few carbs as you wont know what she is reacting too..

Dogs who suffer with food sensitivities normally have Enviroment Allergies aswell, so its not just the food making Sophie skin itch, she could be sensitive to a certain grass, a tree in your yard or neigbours yard, pollens, dust mites, flea salvia, this makes it very hard working out what is making the dog itch, Keep a Diary write every down at night, then look back thru the diary as the years pass & you will start to see a pattern, she might be more itchy thru the Spring & Summer months & in the cooler months she is better ?? this is seasonal environment allergies, with food sensitivities the dog gets bad wind, farts, sloppy poo’s, diarrhea, vomiting,& yeasty smelly ears, paws, skin,….
Its best to see a Dermatologist or a vet that knows about skin & food senitivities..
Best to do food elimination diet in the cooler months when allergens aren’t as high, this way its easier to work out what Sophie is reacting too…

Just becareful with Zignature its very high in Legumes especially the Kangaroo formula..
Join this f/b group “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1952593284998859/
then go into their “files” click on
“2018-09-07 Copy of Diet and Taurine.pdf”
you will see all the dry food brands these dogs were eating when they got DCM Heart problems, the cases marked in light orange, “Orange = DCM or CHF w/o low Taurine; diet related” are diet related & the Zignature kangaroo is has 2 Orange cases, 2 GSH, Id say 1 has passed away by know as he was given 6-8months to live & that was 2015….
Years ago Zignature Kangaroo formula was really good it had more meat proteins then plant proteins then Zignature changed their Kangaroo formula & added less kangaroo meat & more Lentils & now dogs are ending up with heart problems & some have died, they cant absorb the Taurine…
They don’t know if it’s the Legumes blocking the Taurine, they dont know whats happening yet till they do more research, so until then best to fed a dry dog food thats less then 20% in Legumes maybe try a grain limited ingredient formula??
“Wellness Simple” has their Lamb & Oatmeal, Duck & Oatmeal, or Turkey & Potatoes Salmon & Potatoes formula’s these formula’s have very limited ingredients, just feed the same food for 2 months, no treats, no cooked foods, nothing then if she start getting better & she’s not reacting, then after 2 months add 1 new ingredient thats cooked or raw o her diet, no wet can foods as these have cross contamination ingredients..

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
sorry about the long post i started it around 10am then kept adding to it then finally posted it 2pm lol
“Holistic Select” has change all their formula’s & have added lentils chickpeas, these Legumes up the protein % so the pet food companies add less meat proteins in their food, that’s why I always make sure there’s 2-3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredient, so my boy is getting meat proteins & not a heap of plant proteins, Legumes also up the fiber % in a dry kibble, make sure if you feed a dry dog kibble there isn’t anymore then 20% in Legumes, No Lentils/Chickpeas in the first 5 ingredients..
These are the first 5 ingredients of Holistic Select® large & giant breed dry kibble..
Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Chickpeas, Lentils, Peas, Chicken Fat,
when Patch eats Lentils he gets instant diarrhea & chickpeas cause bad wind/farts for 1 week then he’s OK. He does best on Sweet Potatoes & Potatoes kibbles & chickpeas have to be 5-6 ingredient… The Wellness Core Large Puppy formula has Potatoes, it has Lentils as 6th ingredient, your boy might be OK with Lentils?
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-puppy-large-breed-puppy
you could always try it then take it back to Pet Barn if he gets diarrhea they have a money back guarantee & say he won’t eat it now cause he had diarrhea & get the Wellness Complete Health Large breed Puppy formula, it’s Monday so Wellness is on special $109 at the moment till Wednesday midnight, you click on “Click & Collect” & pick up from a Pet Barn closest to you.
https://www.petbarn.com.au/dogs/dog-food-dry/wellness-core-large-breed-dog-food
Or Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Puppy Food – 13.6kg – $99.00
https://www.petbarn.com.au/dogs/dog-food-dry/wellness-large-breed-puppy-food-13-6kg,

I’ve been thinking of getting te Wellness Complete Health Adult formula next, it has 3 meat proteins as 1st 2nd & 3rd ingredient then Oatmeal then peas so there’s less then 20% in Legumes…Pet Barn also has offers, when you join their “Friends For Life” Loyalty program, I just got a $20 free voucher free & a free bath & a free nail clip.. so I got a 2.5kg bag of dry kibble for $2..

I just looked up Holistic Select Australia as some US pet brands ingredient list are changed to come into our country, so when you look up an American brand kibble look up their brand name & put Australia after the brand name, so your getting the Australian Ingredient list…. also when you look at pet foods online pet store some of their ingredients list are the old ingredient list & the new ingredients haven’t been updated yet…

The FDA in America has put out an warning as few large breed dogs in the US that were eating high legume dry kibble diet have ended up with DCM – heart disease..
https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/FDAInBrief/ucm613355.htm

Some dogs have died, they were very young 1-2 yrs old, they have noticed the dry diets were high in Legumes, Legumes are blocking the Taurine & the dogs aren’t absorbing any Taurine, they still dont know 100% what has gone wrong, a healthy 30 month old Rotti just died 8th August, an 1-2yr GSH has died he was given 6-8months to live & that was 2015….Maybe your better off feeding healthy grain formula until the FDA works out what went wrong, or a grain free formula that doesn’t have no more then 20% Legumes (peas), dogs didnt have these heart problems when grain free diets first came out & had Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes & Peas……
You’ll have to do research & make your own decision….
We haven’t been warned about DCM in dogs in Australia. But then again we’ve had toxic pet foods dogs have died & we still dont have any recalls, so I dont know what to think anymore.. I’ve msg our Pet Food Review man on his f/b page & he doesnt seem to think there’s a problems until we get more info, my vet said the same thing….
Golden Retrievers & Labrodors are known to get DMC not rottweilers & German Shepherd & the other large breed who are on the list… there’s a f/b page called “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” look in their “files” for “2018-09-07 Copy of Diet and Taurine.pdf” it has the list of foods & dogs that became sick & died….. The cases that are in a light Orange = DCM or CHF w/o low Taurine; diet related, dogs heart problems were diet related, where the cases in yellow aren’t diet related taht they know off??We dont have these brands dry formula’s in Australia that were involved.

Here’s the proper ingredient list to the “Eagle Pack” Giant/breed puppy formula, Phosphorus 1.00%min, Calcium 1.50%min,
http://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=82#.W58JIPZuI5t

Here’s “Wellness Complete” Health Large Breed Puppy link,
Phosphorus is 0.90% so it’s under 100%, Calcium Not Less Than 1.30%min
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/complete-health-large-breed-puppy

“Stay Loyal” Large Breed Puppy
Phosphorus is 0.70-0.90% Calcium 1.10-1.30%
https://stayloyal.com.au/large-breed-puppy-grain-free-dog-food.html

To meet the more rigid safety guidelines for large breed puppies, a dog food must contain

1.2 to 1.8% calcium

1.0 to 1.6% phosphorus

Calcium-to-phosphorus ratio 1:1 to 1.8:1

Here’s the DFA Link info above & a list of Large Breed Puppy Brands DFA recommend Eagle Pack, Wellness Core, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams & Holistic Select Giant breed formula but this list was written before the DMC scare.. Maybe the Holistic Select giant pup breed is OK or NOT OK cause the formula has been changed now, I dont know
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

They recomend to feed a large growing puppy a balanced dry large/giant breed puppy kibble till he is fully grown 18-24mnths then if you want to feed raw then start him on a raw balanced diet but there must be people who fed their large/giant breed pups a raw balanced diet, I know most Australian either feed a raw diet or they feed both raw meat, raw meaty bones & a dry kibble..

Stay Loyal is Australian if you join they send out monthly emails, they recommend to fed raw meat + raw meaty bones with their dry kibble & to fast dog 1 day a week Sunday, as it re sets the immune system, Robert & David are up to speed raising healthy large breed pups, I’ve emailed Robert Belobrajdic about Patch & his IBD & Robert emailed me back within 12hrs, Robert breeds South African Boerboels, Boerboels are very large dogs. Im pretty saw they’re raw feed aswell as their Large Breed Puppy dry food……..

[Rose B]

Thank you Susan~
I’ll definitely try changing his diet since you suggested it. First I’ll check with my vet, then i’ll check out these other kibbles. Also I am transferring Caesar to raw; just once his stools firm up. That’s truly my goal. Im 100% Pro raw.

And to certain commenters who thought my hatred with giant puppies foods is a poor choice. It really isn’t, my breeder who’s been breeding for 46 years; and the only cases he’s had a dog of his experience hip-dysplasia, is when (although with every good intent) a owner has chosen to go that route, Giant puppies just really can’t handle the food (Royal Canine apparently is the worst). Same goes for kibble in general; his healthiest dogs eat raw. I don’t doubt their is most probably a perfect kibble out there for me (somewhere) but raw feedings for all my breeders dogs has worked successfully and more financially in his favour. (It might just be a Mastiff thing)
But All in All, i do want whats best for my dog~ so I’ll still be on the look out.

(update)
Oh and sorry I forgot to mention; when I frequented the vet, I did everything! and visited alot; got his stool sample checked-nothing.
So it must be the food! I’ve been given the okay by my vet?
how does Holistic Giant breed sound?

[Susan]

Hi again,

here’s the Slippery Elm Slurry,
Formula:
Slippery Elm Gruel is made by the following Method:
1. Put 1 tablespoon of Slippery Elm Inner Bark Powder in a small Bowl or cup.
2. Slowly stir in 1/2 – 3/4s of a Cup of Boiling Water, making the Mixture into a Paste.
3. Add a little MORE Water to thin-out the Paste to the consistency NEEDED for a Poultice.
4. Add enough Water to make the Paste into a Gruel, that is THICK, like Cream of Wheat!

Then I cover the cup up with cling wrap or foil & put in fridge then when I need to use again I take out about 1 spoon of the slippery elm paste it turns toa thick jelly, put 1 teaspoon in a cup & slowly add a little bit at a time of boiling jug water until its smooth again & the paste can be sucked up into a syringe pull up 5ml & put side back of teeth/gums so he swollows, its soothe throat esophagus & stomach then about 20-30mins give is meal

Join this f/b group
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
Heaps of support help & holistic information, I know its a raw holistic feeding group BUT we all dont feed raw, the dog needs to be stable & 100% doing well, then the dog comes off his vet diet, cooked or premium dry food onto a raw diet …
A few dogs in this group wont eat & have no apetite, very skinny, Doodles are normally have big appetites so something is wrong with your poor boy & he’s learnt if I dont eat, I wont get ??? my pain, nauseaous or wind pain etc… sometimes its good to rest the pancreas, stomach/bowel for 24hours but not for your boy..

“ROTATING” encourages the dog to eat when a dog is not eating & doesnt want to eat the same boring food 24/7, changing foods can also make a dog fussy but when you have a dog that wont eat everything needs to be tried…
Rotating foods strengthin’s a dogs immune system, especially when they have IBS/ IBD they need to strengthen their immune system & try as many foods, it has made Patches immune system so much stronger now, when I keep feeding Patch the same dry dog food nothing else for 3 months + Patch starts to react to that food, I’ve been seeing this in a few IBD dogs, my vet said she has a few IBD patients that start reacting when they eat the same dry dog food, this is when food allergies/sensititivies happen after a dog has just eaten the same food 24/7 year after year….
at first Patch would take 3 weeks to introduce a new dry food, now it only takes Patch 2-3 days & he’s eating the new dry food, as long as there isnt any “new ingredients” he has eaten before or Im not sure he is OK eating them…
it really depends on the dog, listen to your gut you know your dog best..you’ll know what to do..

Ask vet about Mirtazapine, Mirtazapine is most commonly used as an appetite stimulant for dogs and cats that are refusing to eat. It is also prescribed for the long-term treatment of various patients who are experiencing nausea, vomiting, and anorexia..

also you could post a post in the IBD holistic group & ask what do people give & do to encourage their dog to eat, there’s 1 lady at the moment Emma she is having problems her dog is very skinny & is not putting on any weight, the vet has said to stop the feeding the raw food for the moment, vet has put her dog on a Holistic Duck dry food…
Groups are good cause everyone is sorta going thru the same thing & you pick up so many good idea & some quirky ideas that work….

Good Luck I hope you get some answers 🙂

[Susan]

Hi,
you have a very smart dog, he knows what foods cause pain, nausea etc & now will not eat, my boxer was the same with dry kibbles & raw Kangaroo, if it smelt weird & caused any stomach/bowel problems she wouldnt eat it ever again, where Patch he keeps eating & eating foods that cause gas/farts, nausea, sloppy poos etc, I have to be a mind reader & work out what is causing his pain his acid reflux etc but when I first rescued him he didnt want any thing to do with dry kibble, when I offered it to him he’d just walk off, he liked cooked food, loaf rolls, raw meaty bones & wet can foods….

Slipery Elm has to be made into a slurry/paste, pull up into a syringe about 5ml =1 teaspoon & you give 20mins before a meal not with the meal…

Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin) Deficiency, has your dog B-12 been tested?
When Vitamin B12 is injected, the vitamin is readily absorbed by the blood and can get to work immediately. If your dog doesn’t have any problems with cobalamin malabsorption or there is no vitamin B12 deficiency, you can give oral supplements available in 100-, 250-, 500-, 1000-, and 5000-microgram tablets.
Ask your vet about him not having any apetite & can you do the weekly B-12 injection for 1 minth & see if there’s an improvement in his appetite a lot of ogs who have IBD EPI who have low appetites are givenB-12 weekly injections to make them want to eat….

Have you tried wet can foods or those good premium loaf rolls?? I know vet diets are expensive but next time you see vet get 1 can of Hills I/d Digestive Care Chicken & Vegetable stew. I have the I/d cans in the cupboard & the Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat wet cans in the cupboard. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-canine-chicken-and-vegetable-stew-canned
I rotate foods, I dont feed the same food for all of Patches 5 meals a day..
Are you feeding more then 2 meals a day? I know he isnt much of a eater but smaller meals of a few different foods thru the day he might want to eat them? a dry dog biscuit offered a few times a day, break biscuit in 1/2, we have a cat & as soon as Patch hear’s Indy getting something to eat he comes running to see if he can have some aswell & normaly he cant thats why the cat is getting the food cause Patch cant eat it.. she/cat is my garbage disposel bin..

I feed the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult dry for breakfast, Patch finally gained weight eating the Wellness Core & the cat keeps stealing Patches Wellness kibbles so they must taste good as she doesnt pinch any of Patches other dry kibbles, for lunch Patch use to get a small can of the Hills I/D chicken Rice & Vegetables wet food or 1/3 of the can of the Royal Canine Intestinal wet food but he kept getting his acid reflux on & off after eating the wet can vet diets & they’re low in fat so Id say its all the Omega oils, they are very high in Omega Oils so now Patch gets 2 big Dog Biscuits, My Boxer use to just look at food & gain weight she where Patch has problems keeping on his weight, I remember Angies vet asking me, what is she eating she’s over weight, she needed to lose 4kgs, she use to eat 1/2 of what Patch eats, she was bigger & he is smaller, I told vet she eats cooked meal, what we eat, & sometimes she eats some dry kibble but not much & she gets a dry dog biscuit maybe twice a day, the vet said do you know 1 of those dry dog biscuits is = to 1 Hamburger for a dog, I said what a Hamburger he said YES start halving her biscuit, so she is just getting 1 dog biscuit a day or completely stop these dru dog biscuits as they are high in fat, so now Im giving Patch 2 big dog biscuits for lunch everyday he loves them, I either feed the Purina Lucky Dog Biscuit Bones, Canidae dry Biscuits or you can get Hills Ideal balance Treats they’re smaller or Hills Vet Diet Hypoallergenic Biscuit treats.. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/ib-soft-baked-naturals-with-chicken-and-carrots-dog-treats..
If you dont want to feed a wet can vet diet then look at Hills “Ideal Balance” Chicken & Zucchini slow cooked wet can food.. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/ib-slow-cooked-chicken-and-zucchini-stew-adult-dog-food-canned#accordion-content-054167331-2
or look at Costcos Kirklands Signature Turkey & Pea Stew wet can food its very popular. Just make sure any wet can foods are 4% in fat not any higher, wet can foods fat protein fiber % havent been converted to dry matter yet so when you convert say 5% fat thats around 20%min to 26% max fat, so 4% min is around 12% fat min best to emal the pet food companies & ask them for max fat concerted to dry matter, they will give the exact max % you dont want to feed him foods that cause pain in stomach or wind pain in bowel then he will become more fussy….lean limited ingredient foods..
http://www.kirklandsignaturepetsupplies.com/natures-domain-brand

All Hills Science Diet wet & dry formula’s are very palatable if your dog refuses to eat then return to pet shop for a refund if you have bought a carton of wet can food, rotate, 1 day feed the Hills Ideal Balance for Dinner then the next day for Dinner he eats a different wet can food or try FreshPet Roll, Stew, Cooked Roasted meals?
https://freshpet.com/dog/freshpet-select

Still feed his Farmina dry food, Farmina is a good food, are you feeding him the LAMB DIGESTION N&D Quinoa Functional Canine formula & the N&D Quinoa Skin & Coat Venison formula
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop/dog-food/n&d-quinoa-functional-canine/429-digestion-lamb.html
its isnt rich or too dense like the other Farmina formula’s, my Patch gets his stomach pain as soon as a dry food is over 370Kcals per cup he whinges & wants me to rub his stomach/pancreas area…

What vet diet did he eat? maybe put him back on the vet diet & feed the matching wet can food rotate in his diet so he gains some weight & feed 4-5 smaller meals a day & give a few dry dog biscuits thru the day aswell as treats or as a dry dog bisciut as a snack before bed, eating then going to sleep gains weight…

I always ask Patch “Which One (kibble) do you want to eat” & I show him 2 different dry kibble brands in their air tight containers with their lids off, he sniffs the containers then he licks the side of the container that he wants to eat or I get out 1 kibble from 1 container & another kibble from the other container, I have 1 kibble in one hand & the another kibble in my other hand & I let him sniff them & ask him “which One”& he takes teh kibble he wants to eat, thru the day he eats about 3 different brands of foods… If I just feed him the same dry kibble day in day out he starts to react & gets his IBD stomach pain & starts whinging & lifts his right paw & wants me to rub his stomach area I thought he had Pancreatitis when I first rescued him, he has all the symptoms but now 5 yrs later Patches vets says he has Stomach pain its cause of his IBD…

If you join the “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” F/B group, go to their “Files” scroll down 11th pdf & click on “Digestive Sensitivity and Dog Size.pdf”
it’s research done on small breed dogs & large Breed dogs, what happens when these dogs eats the same dry kibble, how both breeds digest the same kibble different, now I know why Patch does heaps better with his IBD when he eats a Large Breed dry kibble the Large Breed kibbles have fibers formulated for large breed Intestinal tract so the dog doesn’t get bloat, the Large Breed dry formula’s seem to agree with Patch the best…..

[2doodlemom]

Thank you all so much for your ideas and suggestions. This forum is a wealth of information. Many of your ideas I have tried and either they didn’t work or nothing changed. My next step is back to the Vet with a round of blood test to see what we can find out and then most likely the scope if the Vey thinks its IBS or IBD and need more info on it.

My main problem is how to get him to gain weight? If we try another diet , how to get him to eat? The things we have tried are:
Different dry kibble
Raw diet
ELIMINATION diet
Ground Beef
CHICKEN
lamb
Freshly cooked food
Pumpkin
Different probiotics
Stool test
Kibble toppers
Rawables
So far the only kibble he will eat is Farmina. Won’t touch many kibble. Won’t eat anything with fish. Doesn’t like ground beef. He is on a probiotic every day. Fortiflora.

[Hav mom]

I use the Safe Pet Treats program. Yesterday I received an alert for STEVES REAL FOOD recal which affects limited quantities of its raw frozen do and Quest ct food due to possible contamination with Salmonella dnd Listeria bacteria. Recalled products are: Steve’s Real Food Turducken Recipe Quest EMu Diet, Quest Beef Diet. Then today, another recall notice
was sent to me regarding BRAVO PACKING DOG FOOD. They recalled all Performance Dog
Products, a frozen raw pet food because it has the potential to be contaminated with Salmonella. The 2 & 5# Plastic Sleeves. What is going on, lots of recalls lately…If you know anyone who uses these premium foods, please let them know.

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
you in Australia hello,

I would NOT FEED “Black Hawk” change it ASAP,
Black Hawk has been sold 4 times now & is no longer a family owned business it owned by Marster Pet Food in NZ & its made at the Dubbo Plant where “The Real Pet Food Company” makes all their bad cheap pet foods, The Real Pet food Company makes Baxters Woolworths generic brand, Baxter has been killing dogs since 2017 – 2018 last sick dog was 3 weeks ago Baxter wet can food go onto “The Australian Pet Reviews” site & his Face Book page, follow him & he tells us when Pet Food companies are getting heaps of complaints dying & sick dogs, look up Black Hawk on the “Australian Pet Food Reviews” site read all the people complaints, even Ivory Coat was sold Chinese bought 2017 Ivory Coat no longer family owned & its also made at the Dubbo Plant now…
Change his food this vet should of put your pup either on a vet diet or another brand dog food that’s the first thing you do when a dog keeps having diarrhea…

He shouldnt be on antibiotic for too long, have you tried “Protexin” yellow label probiotic Powder or I buy the “Yakult” pink Probiotic drink sold at Coles or Woolworths you get a 5 pack they’re in the fridge section, give your dog 1/2 a Yakult a day inbeween feeds, as he grows give him 1 yakult daily inbetween meals..
Probiotics are best taken on empty stomach..

Have a look at the Prime SKD rolls sold at Pet Barn in fridge section, there’s Crocodile & Tapioca, Kangaroo & Pumkin or Kangaroo & Potato..
Have you tried a raw or cooked diet & use “NAS Digestavite Plus Powder” to balance the dogs diet? instead of dry dog food?
https://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/product/digestavite-plus/

I DO NOT buy any Australian made pet foods NO more our Pet Food Companies are self regulated so anyone in Australia can make a pet food & do what they want, NO Recalls nothing, but when a pet food comes from Overseas, USA these Pet Food company MUST obey really strict laws, they have to prove where their meats are being sourced from etc to come into our country..but when a pet food is made in Australia these Australian Pet Food Companies do not need to do anything 🙁
We are trying to change our laws after over 100 dogs died after eating Advance Dermocare Nov 2017 – April 2018, there’s an senate inquiry about Australian pet foods at the moment..
Here’s a video, Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals
after we had blue red pink plastic thru Applaws dog & cat food…. after you watch this you wont want to feed any dry pet foods..
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958

Look at “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Grain Free has potato Potato & Sweet potato firms the poo or “Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Adult” has grains only sold Pet Barn store or Pet Barn Online store, shop online its cheaper & press Click & Collect & pick up from your nearest Pet Barn store, its cheaper to shop Pet Barns online store then buy Wellness from the pet barn store, these always sales online, join Pet Barns “Friends for Life” & get $10 off first order, free bath, free vet visit etc

If you want to fed a grain dry kibble then look at
“Eagle Pack” Large/Gaint Breed formula Eagle Pack is sold online Bomarang Pet Foods http://www.boomerangpetfood.com.au/eagle-pack-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-13-6kg/

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult, is formulated for large breed “stomach & bowel”, not to cause bloat, it has easy to digest ingredients, it’s high in Protein-34%, Low/med fat-13%, low kcals 345 per cup…
Wellness also has Probiotics to help stop diarrhea then reduce antibiotics after he is eating the Wellness Core Large Breed formula for 2 weeks.

[Susan]

Hi Doodlemom,
Sounds like your doodle is suffering from Stomach/Bowel problems = IBS….
later on as he ages may turn into IBD if he isnt treated when he is young…
When you were at the vets did the vet recommend to feed one of their Digestive Health vet diet??
I have a rescued dog who I rescued age 4yrs old he suffers with IBD now, I’d say when he was a pup he suffered with similar health problems like your Doodle has, then as he aged it turned to IBD….If you have the money I’d see a vet who specializes in IBD, there’s a good f/b group called “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
I would change his diet, the Farmina Puppy food with lamb diet might be too rich for him or an ingredient isnt agreeing with him??
Have a look at “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult, very easy to digest, high protein-34% low/med fat-13%, low in Kcals-345per cup, formulated for large breeds digestive tract, my boy has “FINALLY” gain weight, after years of struggling to keep his weight on, he does firm poos every day, stopped his vomiting…. It’s worth a try then if your Doodle doesn’t gain weight I’d see a vet that knows alot about Intestinal problems & take it from there..
Im wondering does he suffer with food sensitivities?? My boy does this is when the Hypoallergenic vet diets are really good to work out what your dog might be sensitive too & do a food elimintion diet…
Patch did a vet diet elimination diet, then we did a raw diet elimination diet a few years later when Patch saw a Nutritionist 2015….
Patch ended up having Endoscope + Biopsies 2013 & again Jan 2018 to work out what was wrong again?? the Biopsies tell the vet so much information that cant been seen thru Ultra Scan, Xrays & blood test..

[Susan]

Hi Doodlemom,
Sounds like your doodle is suffering from Stomach/Bowel problems = IBS….
later on as he ages may turn into IBD if he isnt treated when he is young…
When you were at the vets did the vet recommend to feed one of their Digestive Health vet diet??
I have a rescued dog who I rescued age 4yrs old he suffers with IBD now, I’d say when he was a pup he suffered with similar health problems like your Doodle has, then as he aged it turned to IBD….If you have the money I’d see a vet who specializes in IBD, theer’s a good f/b group called “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

I would change his diet, the Farmina Puppy food with lamb diet might be too rich for him or an ingredient isnt agreeing with him??
Have a look at “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult, very easy to digest, high protein-34% low/med fat-13%, low in Kcals-345per cup, formulated for large breeds digestive tract, my boy has “FINALLY” gain weight, after years of struggling to keep his weight on, he does firm poos every day, stopped his vomiting…. It’s worth a try then if your Doodle doesn’t gain weight I’d see a vet that knows alot about Intestinal problems & take it from there..
Im wondering does he suffer with food sensitivities?? My boy does this is when the Hypoallergenic vet diets are really good to work out what your dog might be sensitive too & do a food elimintion diet…
Patch did a vet diet elimination diet, then we did a raw diet elimination diet a few years later when Patch saw a Nutritionist 2015….
Patch ended up having Endoscope + Biopsies 2013 & again Jan 2018 to work out what was wrong again?? the Biopsies tell the vet so much information that cant been seen thru Ultra Scan, Xrays & blood test..
Something is wrong with your boy..

[Susan]

Hi Clarie,
AM, English Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Pitbulls are prone to environment allergies & food sensitivities, my Patch suffers with both…. Patches vet said normally when a dog suffers with Environemnt allergies the dog will also suffer with food sensitivities…
I tried all the Vet diets for Patch, Hills Z/D, Hills Potato & Venison & Royal Canine HP & they seem to make Patch paws worst & the Hills Z/d made his skin & paw smell real yeasty… In the end I did a raw elimination diet, Kangaroo & blended green vegetables/fruit, Broccoli, Celery & Apple within 3 days no more smelly yeasty skin & paws.. I added raw chicken for dinner within 20mins of eating teh raw chicken 1 of Patches back paws went red hot & itchy he wouldnt stop licking it, I had to put an ice pack on his back paw….Have you tried doing a raw elimination diet?

Another thing I do with his paws I buy the Huggies Cucumber & Aloe baby Wipes & I wipe his paws & body down after he goes on a walk & when he’s been outside, I also apply creams “Sudocrem” works really well, I apply Sudocrem before he goes outside of a morning & the thick Sudocrem acts as a barrier & protects his paws from outdoor allergens then before he goes to bed at night I wipe his paws down with the Cucumber & Aloe wipes then I apply the Sudocrem on his paws & inbetween his toes with a cotten tip if they’re red.. You can buy Sudocrem from Amazon I also use “Bepanthen” Antiseptic Soothing cream when he gets a grass rash on his stomach & around his doodle, he goes outside & rubs his stomach & on the grass making his rash worse the Bepanthen cream is excellent works straight awa takes away the itch & redness.. look in you baby section at Supermarket for baby wipes & cream….
Patch has licked these creams & he’s still here they didnt make him sick 🙂 thats why best to apply creams at night before bed they also have a better sleep..

[Susan]

Hi Dendad,
What I noticed in the Taurine Test Result document that is in the Files of the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” f/b group, all the dogs ate the same dog food 6months, some 1yr, their owners NEVER rotated their diet & feed them different brands….some owners added toppers like sardines, raw meats, eggs can food etc these foods didn’t seem to help some dogs, where some dogs who had toppers added to their dry diet their test results came back normal ??….

I recommend change your dog dry foods with the Seasons, so Spring has just sprung in Australia, if in American Autumn has begun, time to change your dogs food also your dog will love something new, something different, slowley introduce new food over 7-10 days with their old food…
If your dog has just been eating Freshpet more them 3-6months then look for another food if you’re looking for a dry foods make sure they have has at least 3 meat proteins, meat meals (Chicken meal, Chicken, Turkey, Turkey Meal, Lamb, Lamb Meal etc) as 1st 2nd 3rd ingredient, no high protein starchy carbs like Legumes in the first 5 ingredients…

It’s not only grain free foods that have caused heart problems, Lamb & Rice, Chicken Meal & Rice formula’s have come up in a study that was done when reversible taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy occurred in five related golden retrievers, they ate
Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Adult Maintenance Formula Chicken;
Hill’s Science Diet Canine Senior Chicken;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0&preview=GoldenRetriever_Taurine_DCM.pdf

When you rotate with a Grain free & grain formula’s make sure there’s more meat proteins then starchy plant proteins…these pet companies have gotten gready & have replace the meat proteins with more starchy plant proteins to up the protein % & more money for the pet food companies…

Don’t feed a grain formula that has ingredients like this
Chicken, Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, then “Chicken Meal”.
The Chicken meal is the 6th ingredient, this Hills dry formula has more starchy carbs, then meat proteins, I wonder if the Chicken meal was either 1st or 2nd ingredients followed by chicken ingredient, would this dry grain formula still have cause Left ventricular function at low end of normal, with a 2 yr old Golden Retriever & a 4yr old Golden Retriever?? again these 2 dogs were feed same food or 6-12mths owner never rotated their foods….

This is everything I am observing..

[Dennis T]

Yes I think I’ll definitely ask that group about it. That one document that shows the taurine levels of dogs on certain is interesting (Acana was not looking good!). I scrolled to the Canidae part and some of theirs wasn’t good either but I noticed their Grain Free Pure Sea limited ingredient diet seemed to be just fine on that list. It wasn’t highlighted in yellow or anything. This confused me because the ingredients in that food does contain peas etc. If the fish formulas for some reason are okay, I might try to get my girl on the newest formula of Canidae (Grain Free Ancestral Raw Coated Fish). However, I’m still cautious and waiting for some more info.

[Glanton]

Hello peeps,

I have my dog on a home prepared raw det and am interested in opinions. I don’t want to overcomplicate yet don’t want anything missing either.

So her core diet is made of about 60% meat. She gets fish (typically pollock or basa due to economy four to five days and lean beef two to three days.

Every day for the other 40% she gets about and even split between beef organ meat made up of liver, lung, heart, and green tripe, and beef rib bones.

Every other day she gets a raw egg mixed in, and on opposite days she gets a few whole sardines (frozen, thawed) I also mix a bit of cooked sweet potato each day – no t much, but just to provide a bit of fibre.

She is allergic to both chicken and pork.

Any feedback and opinions are appreciated, thank you so much!

[Susan]

*Acana had 16 of their formula’s on the Low Taurine list & again the dogs just ate the same dry Acana food more then 1yr

*Fromm had 12 different formula’s that affected dogs Taurine levels & people are stopping their good dog foods & changing over to Fromm fomula’s.. 🙁
I notice these dogs who tested Low in Taurine were feed the SAME diet more then 6months over 1 yr..

*4Health had 4 of their forumla’s on the list

*Zignature had 3 formula’s (I think)

*Canidae had 3 of their formula’s where dogs tested low in Taurine, Chicken & Rice formula, All Life Stages grain formula & Pure Sky formula, then there were dogs that ate Canidae formula’s & they were “Fine” 1 owner added raw Turkey, eggs & cottage Cheese & his Taurine test came back fine, so this is telling me this is genetics…

I notice these dogs test that were Low Taurine were feed the “SAME” diet more then 6months, some more then 1 yr..

If you have a breed that is predisposed to heart problems, then I’d take your dog to see a vet & have a blood test done & take it from there, others that dont have a breed that’s prone to heart problems just keep feeding what you’re feeding & rotate & change brands with the seasons, don’t feed the same dry kibble more then 4months & dont Stress out….

Here’s the Taurine list.. you might need to be on f/b for it to work..

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/2018-09-01%20Copy%20of%20Diet%20and%20Taurine%20Table.pdf?token=AWw34aBaca80R1PN-JJjiCu8YfP-Y_smfi4dMbEHiWCP-2XqM6C2nzYbmp0Qy8aEywUU1l4Oh4mH_6hQ8I9uTspCfOA6N4MVOyQ6Hsuj4wEb6d3QodPL57e1o-J9Nfh3ywUnQmmLEBnXEiK5K2e5WPjdKZlJhytf6y5_a_wOWQh1BQ

Here’s the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy”f/b group then the Taurine list is in their “Files” Dr Stern gives some good advice..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1952593284998859/

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,

Yes I heard the same thing, it was the “Zignature Kangaroo” formula it’s very high red & green lentils, like I said these pet food companies up the protein % with plant proteins instead of having more Kangaroo meat cause Roo is more expensive in America, thats why I email Zignature a year ago & asked them where are they getting their kangaroo meat from?? cause I knew Zignature had changed their Zignature Kangaroo formula & added red Lentils there’s not much kangaroo meat in the dry Zignature formula now, where it once was good when I use to recommend Zignature for dogs with food sensitivities & allergies so they are paying top dollar for their Kangaroo meal now…

Most Australian pet owners normally feed their dogs a dry kibble & they add some raw Kangaroo meat or raw meaty bones with the dry kibble..
We can buy raw meaty beef, chicken, kangaroo, Crocodile bones, Kangaroo tail, Kangaroo minced meat, from Pet Shops, I’d say its all By product meats healthy fresh By Product meats, By product Kangaroo is apparently is very healthy.
Our vets always recommend to add some raw Kangaroo to your dogs diet cause its very healthy, I cant handle the smell of Kangaroo, its has a strong meathy smell & tastes very rich meat, when its made into a dry kibble cooked & cooked at high tempretures this is when these byproduct meat lose their goodness & dont have all the goodness they once had…

Our dead Kangaroos, dead cows, dead horses that are on the side of the road are picked up by the local council, the council for that area is informed & a garbage truck goes & gets the dead animal off the rd within 24hr & it’s put into the garbage truck, then it’s taken to the tip & if its a dead dog or dead cat the animal is scanned for a microchip & owner is notified, if there’s no Micro Chip the cat or dog is throwned into the garbage truck & taken to the local tip…
I’d say America probably does the same thing, all road kill probably ends up as land fill…
I hope it does cause Patch eats American made kibble, he seems to do better with his IBD then the Australian made grain free formula’s, he does OK on some Australian made grain dry kibbles but better with the Potato, Sweet potato grain free US kibbles.

I use my nose, as soon as I open a new bag of kibble I smell it, some kibbles smell OK when the kibble bags is first opened, then after 1-2 weeks I re smell the kibble thats in air tight containers & some kibbles starts to have an “awful” off meat smell & of cause Patch likes this kibble BUT I throw it out or I take it back to the Pet shop it’s an expensive brand, But Wellness & Canidae kibbles always stay & smell the same as they smelt when I first opened up the kibble bag, they dont smell worse after 2-3 weeks, where some Australian, made kibbles smelt awful & I’ve noticed the ones that were Fish started to get a rotten fishy smell after 2 weeks…

Start smelling your dry kibble from the day you open the bag then after it’s been in Air tight container or in it’s orginal kibble bag & see does the smell stay the same or get worse??
Then you’ll know rotten rendered meats were used, I think the kibbles that start to smell of rotten meat after 1-2 weeks have use rendered rotten meats….

How’s your sick dog going? I don’t know his name, is he doing much better now he’s on the different Pro Plan Sensitive kibble?
He might be like Patch, very sensitive & they know straight away when something isnt right with their food, cause a few American brands of kibble that ended up on the high toxins & contaminates list, Patch ate & became unwell after he ate those formula’s..
I use to feed fish thru the Summer months cause of Patches allergies then I’d rotate & feed Lamb or Pork thru the Winter months…

So sometimes toxins & contaminates play a big part in making our pets ill & die..

[Susan]

Hi Brenda,

IBS IBD is an awful disease, my Staffy Patch has IBD diagnosed thru Endoscope & Biopsies..
Are you seeing a vet that specializes in IBD/IBS??

You have just posted what my Patch was like when he took Predisone…

Predisone made my boy WORSE vomiting, nausea, Diarrhea, slept all thru day, my happy go lucky Patch became worse, I knew it was the Predisone, when his vet first prescibe it the first time I said NO NO, so we tried Metronidazole again which really helps him but then Patch kept having his stomach/pancreas pain, he was lifting his right paw & wanting me to rub his stomach so I thought it was his Pancreas that was sore but test result kept saying his Pancreas was good & healthy then the vet said its his stomach from the IBD 🙁
My vet suffers with IBD which is really good cause she knows all the symptoms..
Then I released he was only whinging & lifting his paw after eating certin dry kibbles…
his dry kibble can not be higher then 360 in Kcals per cup or high in fat this is when his stomach hurts…
I’d reduce his predisone over 2 weeks, then reduce again over 2 weeks etc & stop you’ll probably see he getting a bit better, reduce slowly if he’s been on Predisone more then 2 months, google side effects dogs taking Prednisone…
When Predisone works their poos firm up, the dog start getting better, they drink & drink water but that’s nothing compared to them being ill with IBD symptoms, my Patch didnt get better while taking predisone only worse & we started on a low dose 10mg twice a day for a 18kg/40lb dog, vet reduced down to 5mg a day, 2.5mg with breakfast 2.5mg with dinner still Patch wanst his happy self & his sloppy sloppy poo continued, vomiting stopped but he was feeling very sick & mouth licking eating grass, then once I stopped the Predisone Patch got better within 2-3 days.. Talk with your vet or start reducing the Prednisone yourself, then just explain to your vet & if you get a better result the vet normally says Ok then & my vet wrote on Patches chart he can NOT take Prednisone… Something isnt right with your poor boy nilly 2 yrs he should be getting better…

Here’s a good F/B group to join
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
I know it says “raw feeding” but there’s people in group that cook, give vet diets etc

Also go on “Judy Morgan DVM” F/B page & look thru her Video’s scroll down, down till you get to around August 2017 look for her “IBD Diet” I cant find it, but I am scrolling quickly
Here’s her “Pancreatitis Diet” June 4 2017 you can leave out some ingredients it gives you ideas.. https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/videos/1347288501986822/

I buy lean 5 star human grade pork mince 1kg, You can buy Turkey breast mince just make sure they’re lean minces, no hamburger minces as they are very high in fat…
I add to 1kg/2.2lbs 1 egg whisked, some fresh chopped parsley about 1 teaspoon, some broccolli heads only a few little heads chopped up broccolli heads, mix all together, later I added 1 small peeled grated carrot but that was after I knew Patch could eat the bland pork rissoles, then I started adding more ingredients but at first only add a few ingredients just incase he has food sensitivities & make the rissole balls into 1/2 cup size rissole balls & bake on foil lined baking tray, bake for 15mins in oven, take the pork rissole out & drain any fat water, then turn over the rissole balls & bake for another 15mins take out, drain any fat/water & look in middle of rissole balls are they cooked & reading, I aslo buy 1 sweet big potato, I peel & cut up into small pieces boil then cool & I freeze the sweet potato pieces & I freeze the pork rissole separate to the sweet potato, then I add 1/2 cup sweet potato & the rissole bals are 1/2 a cup, you mash the sweet potatoes thru the cut up rissole balls or I put all in a blender & blend……

Are you feeding 4 smaller meals a day?
also what dose of Omeprazole is your dog taking?
My Patch just took 20mg Omeprazole in morning when he took twice a day he seem unwell & got a fermenting smell in his mouth so vet said just give the 1 x 20mg Omeprazole in morning but this March I changed his Omeprazole over to Pantoprazole x 20mg after Patch was taking the Omeprazole for 2 yrs, the Omeprazole didnt seem to be working no more & I knew the Pantoprazole works better for me as I take it..
There’s a few PPI sometimes you need to find the right one, dont just stop the Omeprazole, never just stop a PPI, it needs to be very slowly reduced, if he’s taken Omeprazole twice a day then you can be reduced to just the 1 tablet a day thats OK its when you completly stop a PPI..

Make sure you only do 1 new thing or reduce 1 med at one time over 1 week, then the next week you can try something else new, so if he does reacts you know what its from…
I’d be reducing the predisone as it sounds like it isnt helping him & might be making him worse..

There’s Hills I/D Digestive Care Stews Chicken,Vegetables & Rice low fat can food this smells really good it smells like baby food.. another thing you can try is buy the tin Salmon in spring water small tins, drain all water & add 1/2 sweet potato put in air tight container in fridge & give small meal for lunch, dogs normally love fish…Sweet Potato soothes stomach & bowel & firms up poo..

[joanne l]

I know just b/c it say USDA inspected plants does not mean good food. Like I said before when a dog food company can stamp USDA inspected food than it is good, but we will never see that. Even the best companies can’t say that either. But we all have to put our trust in someone. Some people, including myself, can’t feed raw diet. I have a big dog. If I had a little dog I would hands down. But what I do is, I feed home cooked and part dry food. So I do half and half. That’s what I did for my other dog to. As far as dry food goes, I feed the best and the middle of the road. In my experience I had problems with both. The expensive food was good until I got a bag and it was different in color and my dog got diarrhea. The middle of the road food was good until I got a bad batch. So I don’t know anymore. Oh, and my other dog ate fresh chicken and beef liver and hearts etc. and it is cheap, but this dog I have now does not do well with fresh by products. So I give him fresh meat and fish.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.

[Spy Car]

What I find funny is people who (falsely) accuse others of an irrational disdain for “by-products,” but who won’t feed fresh, wholesome, and inexpensive raw chicken feet as an excellent dietary source of glucosamine, and who instead turn to expensive supplements that make his or her dog sick.

Bill

[haleycookie]

Raw diets can be complete and balanced. I know shocking! But it is possible to do a little bit of research and even get with a nutritionalist to make a raw diet. A diet that is most correct and healthiest for a dog.
By the way it’s ludicrous to say big dog food companies are buying the best products lmao. Don’t make me laugh. They’re buying the cheapest most processed antiobiotic and hormone filled garbage they can get their money hungry hands on so they can spend 5$ making a 40-50 lbs bag of food and resell it for 20-30 dollars. sorry but no. The trials they do also are incredibly limited and they take into consideration that the dogs are alive after the trial and that’s it.
Raw and slightly cooked balanced diets are the way to go. There’s no way anyone will make me believe for any reason a burnt ball of artificial vitamins with over cooked ingredients are better. I know not everyone can have the time to make their dog and cats food which is why i will still suggest other types of food. But I refuse to recommend low quality ones from untrustworthy companies.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by haleycookie.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,

Yes FRESH raw byproduct meats are great if you’re a raw feeder, but when By Product meats are in pet foods I dont think you really know what your dog or cat is really eating as you’ll see if you watch the video Ive posted maybe it will explain a bit more…

It’s best if you buy some raw beef hearts lightly cook them & slowly introduce a little bit of heart as a daily treat, I’ve been thinking of doing this as treat thru the day for cat & Patch, I always see all the organ meats reduce in supermarket, 1/2 price around 50c to 1$….
Best not to cook the raw organ meats, cooking destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods. So lightly cook..

Beef heart is incredibly rich, so feed it as an organ meat not a muscle meat in a raw diet.
Only add about 1 oz per meal for a 70 lb dog. Do not overfed it as it can cause diarrhea When you cook the raw organ meats it destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods.

Poor Patch learnt the hard way when he ate heap of very big Liver Treats, when I first rescued him…the rescue group had given me the liver treats & Patch decided to steal them & eat the small bag..He had diarrhea all night the poor thing…

By Product meats these Pet Food Companies get & use wouldnt be separated so the good bits are probably mixed with all the rotten bad meats & other things..
Chicken would probably be the best in dry kibbles & in wet can foods, to fed & be fresh & a good qualitity…also chicken is very cheap…so these pet food companies wouldnt really need to buy by product chicken…. if you watch the link below I’ve posted Dennis the Whistle blower talks about saving 2 live chickens after then survived the chop at the meat plant… same thing happened when my X husband brought home a chicken that he found running out onto the street of a factory she missed being killed, I gave her to a neigbour & her daughter took her she lived out her days on a farm & was a good egg layer once she became healthy…
I asked a Hills rep one day, why does all the Hills premium & vet diets only have Chicken as the meat protein, (this is in the Australian Hills formula’s), she said cause Chicken is the easiest meat to digest & chicken is cheaper….

Watch this video when you have a spare 8mins
Dennis a whistle blower tell the 7.30 Report ABC whats in our pet foods we feed our pets
“Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals”
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958
When you see ingredient list that read like this
Meat and Meat meals (chicken, beef, lamb and/or pork)…..

But I cant understand how are these meat meals separated into Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Kangaroo Meal, Salmon Meal, Pork Meal… I know we have about 5-6 big Meat Plants in Australia maybe some of these other big meat plants sell the separate meat meals to pet food companies, Here’s another video, when pet foods were tested they were not the meat proteins it said in the ingredient list.. If Patch could eat a raw home made or cooked diet, Id feed a home made raw this way I know what he is eating..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

Your question about Kangaroo meat, about 1yr ago a representative from Zignature was answering people questions on DFA Review Zignature section cause Anon101 had taken over Zignature Reviews & wreaking havoc, I thought I will emailed Zignature & I asked Zignature who does Zignature buy their kangaroo from, a man from Zignature email me back, he said Zignature sends over their own American hunters to kill our wild kangaroos & they bring back the dead wild kangaroo’s, straight away I knew this is a BIG lie you cant come into Australia & kill our wild life then take it out of the country?? He’s been watching too many Crocodile Dundee movies, lol
The only company that exports raw Kangaroos is “Marco Meats” in South Australia or the only other way Zignature would get their Kanagroo is to buy it in meal form which I think this would be the best way for dry kibbles then the pet food companies add Lentils or chickpeas to push the protein % up so people think they’re getting more kangaroo meat…

There’s a really good Kangaroo dry pet food called “Vetalogia” Kangaroo Adult, I know Vetalogica was lauched Superzoo 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
you’d be getting more Kangaroo meat cause its Kangaroo meal then Chicken meal, contact the American Vetalogica- https://www.vetalogica.com/
ask for samples, just say your dog is very fussy eater & does Vetalogica have sample you can try & see what they say..
I tried the Vetalogica about 3 months ago, I think Patch can’t eat Tapioca he starts dragging his bum on carpet rug & scratching when he eats any dry kibble that have tapioca in it them….. here’s the ingredient list for the Vetalogica Kangaroo Adult formula.. https://www.vetalogica.com.au/collections/vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-dog-food/products/copy-of-vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-lamb-adult-dogs

[Susan]

Hi Cynthia,

Here’s a link that Lynne D posted today in the “Grain Free Diets & Heart Disease” research & studies done on Golden Retriever, Newhounds, Portuguese water dogs & Beagal adult dogs of varying genetic backgrounds.
Common findings in affected dogs are large body size, very low blood taurine concentration and diets containing whole-grain rice, rice bran or barley, and lamb meal…

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0

If you’re feeding a dry kibble you want a dry kibble that has at least 2-3 meat proteins & meat meals as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredients then a carb, you want higher the meat proteins & less plant proteins less legumes, less rice, less barley & corn etc..
Best to rotate your kibble between a few different brands so your dog is getting variety of dry foods & isnt eating the same dry dog food 24/7 also start adding fresh whole natural sources of taurine to diet, raw beef heart, dark chicken meat, eggs, seaweed, krill and brewer’s yeast. Raw meat is fairly rich in taurine, comparable to fish, but cooked meat typically have only 10 milligrams of taurine per ounce, you can buy tin Sardines in spring water & add 2 spoons to 1 of your dog daily meal…

Here’s a little insert from study done on “Golden Retrievers”

The contribution of diet merits further investigation, since three of five dogs in this study were eating commercial diets that included lamb or lamb meal and rice as the primary ingredients. Historically, dietary causes of taurine-deficient
DCM in dogs have been ignored, because taurine is not recognized as an essential amino acid in dogs.
6
However, recent studies by Delaney et al, have prompted new insights into the
possible relation between taurine deficiency in dogs and diets containing whole-grain rice, rice bran or barley, and lamb meal.
38
It has been reported that dietary bran rice decreases plasma and whole-blood taurine concentrations in cats by accelerating the excretion of bile acids.
39
The role of lamb meal in taurine deficiency remains obscure, but lamb
meal may limit the bioavailability of sulfur amino acids.
40
Recently, low blood taurine concentrations have been identified in a cohort of Newfoundland dogs fed lamb meal and rice.
29
In an extensive genetic study performed by Alroyetal. on Portuguese water dogs, two litters were obtained following a breeding of presumptive carriers of DCM. Two
(29%) of seven puppies in the first litter developed DCM while they were fed a commercial growth formula that included ground corn and poultry byproduct meal as primary ingredients.
19
The second litter was fed a lamb meal and rice puppy diet, and eight (89%) of nine puppies developed signs of taurine-deficient DCM.
19
The role of diet was not investigated in that study, but it could be hypothesized that the heritable predisposition to taurine-deficient DCM in juvenile Portuguese water dogs was precipitated by feeding a lamb meal and rice diet.
Torres et al showed that feeding lamb meal and rice to young beagles for 8 months significantly decreased their plasma taurine concentrations during the first month, but no change occurred thereafter, and the depletion was insufficient to cause DCM in these dogs.
41
On the other hand, a decreased urinary taurine excretion was observed
despite a lack of change in plasma taurine concentrations, indicating a certain physiological adaptation to conserve taurine in the face of depletion.
41
The main limitation of the study reported here was its retrospective nature and the availability of echocardiographic data. Other echocardiographic measurements would have been useful to examine the systolic dysfunction and to follow the response to therapy. It has been reported that concurrent whole-blood taurine and plasma taurine deficiencies correlate better with myocardial taurine deficiency in dogs
than either whole-blood taurine or plasma taurine concen-
tration alone.
42
Nonetheless, all subjects included in this study had very low plasma taurine concentrations, which implied a clinically significant taurine deficiency.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
this happened with Patch at all the local parks in our area, the council men would spray the grass & weeds at all the parks every 3 months & they only put up their weed spraying signs saying they are spraying & have the name of the weed killer poison that they were using at each end of the walk ways, then when they were finished they take down their weed poison signs & leave so if you came a few mins or hours later you wouldnt have a clue there’s poison every thru the park where the dogs walk on the grass & sniff & this poison gets absorbed thru their paws or they lick their paws 🙁

Did you end up trying a new dry food or you were going to re feed Pro Plan Lamb & Rice formula but you were worried to retry it again??
What dose was he taken when he took the Metronidazole? with Patch I have to do very low dose 200mg with a meal twice a day every 12hours then after 4-5 days I just give him 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet at night with his meal then he goes to sleep…

I’m looking thru Patches IBD note pad, I use to write things down when another dog in the IBD group had similar IBD problems like Patch had…
here’s other drugs that are used for dogs with IBD but the dog reacted to Metronidazole & dog can not take the Metronidazole.
Sulfasalazine
Olsalazine
Secnidazole or Tinidazole
Doxycycline,
but my vet told me there is NO drug the same as Metronidazole that has an anti inflammatory & antibiotic in it?

Holistic meds instead of using Metronidazole.
“Colloidal Silver” from health food store, Colloidal Silver is suppose to help anything bacterial, fungal or viral, upset stomach instead of giving the dog Metronidazole or there’s L-Glutamine, Licorice root but Ive never tried the Holistic meds, Lew Olson swears by L-Gutamine she has her “K-9 Nutrition” F/B group, I never tried the holistic meds cause Patches vet ended up talking to another vet & he said to re try a very low dose Metronidazole for a 17kg dog & said to give Patch 250mg Metronidazole twice a day every 12 hours with a meal, so now when needed I just give 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet twice a day when Patch first starts the Metro then I reduce in 3-5 days to just 1 x 200mg Metro tablet Patch poos dont go good straight away, his poos are yucky for 5-10 days then after I’ve stop the Metronidazole he starts to do 2 perfect poos again…
I found this really good information, research done on small & large breed dogs the other day in the files of my”Dogs With Inflammatory Bowel Disease” – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support ” F/B group..

when you have a quiet 15mins read thru all this
REVIEW ARTICLE
Digestive sensitivity varies according to size of dogs:
a review M. P. Weber, V. C. Biourge and P. G. Nguyen
Royal Canin Research Center, Aimargues, France..

After reading the review I now I understand why Patch who is only a medium size breed dog does really well on “Large Breed kibbles” they are made for a large breed dogs stomach & bowel, to prevent large breed dogs getting bloat & other intestinal problems…

Have you ever tried a Large Breed dry dog food that was grain free & had Potatoes, no Lentils or Chickpeas? the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula is really good or another dry food that has similiar ingredients & has high Protein, low/med Fat, Fiber & low Carb % low Kcals per cup, I was always scared to try over 30% for Protein but Patch seems to d better with less carbs…
I hope this link works it explains why small breed dogs & large breed dogs need different dry diets. here’s a bit of the Review.

For a large breed dog, the general goal is to limit any ingredient that could increase the level of fermentable undigested residues and, in fine, exacerbate colonic fermentation. Highly digestible sources of proteins and starches are therefore strongly recommended to maintain an optimal digestive tolerance…
Fermentable fibre sources (i.e. beet pulp and FOS) must also be used in limited quantity in their diet. Conversely, the incorporation of non-fermentable fibre (i.e. cellulose) appears useful to increase their stool quality. It’s a really good read, I hope this link works, it worked when I posted it on f/b for another lady whos dogs is pooing too many poos & is doing sloppy/jelly poos….
Patch didnt do well when Patch was only eating the Purina Pro Plan OptiDerma, I had to put him back on the Wellness Core Large Bred & the next day perfect poos..

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Digestive%20Sensitivity%20and%20Dog%20Size.pdf?token=AWxdS0LAtYflktKtk13bU2vfu6buTNCdW6HuK-ODXVMRA1UBaouyR1S_TfaVGEbXbIpp2p6fRZXdmszsoTwQZGhNeoDyb0W9R_0CvuF-OKim0TaYxFpqxeGUiMAul6fOw942a71TqDuB7PAfHWAjeqQEF40Ftp4UF-2VFrylY3uo-A

[Susan]

Hi,
I’d stop the Purina Pro Plan Lamb & Rice before he gets real sick again, it might have something wrong with this batch of kibble like you said.
Take the bag of Lamb & Rice back & see if there’s a different batch nb & use by date & swap or try something else…
A few years ago I tried Patch on the Purina Pro Plan Opti-Restore for Stomach/Digestion it is Lamb, Rice & Barley, Patch started doing sloppy poos then diarrhea, I took him to the vet to get a script of Metronidazole cause Patches diarrhea didnt get better after I stopped the Pro Plan Optirestore, the vet put her finger in Patches bum to feel around his bowel & when she pulled her gloved finger out it had all yellow undigested kibble thru his poo on her glove finger, she said his stomach is digesting this food…
So now I dont know, can he eat barley, was it just his stomach not working properly? or does he have food sensitivities to Barley? alot of these grain dry kibble have barley in them here in Australia…..

Also I had to take back the Pro Plan OptiDerma Sensitive Skin & Coat dry food, I bought around the same time you started the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice food a few weeks ago, at first Patch did really well when he was having 1/2 Wellness Core & 1/2 Pro Plan OptiDerma kibble but as soon as he was just eating the Pro Plan Optiderma Patch started doing Mr Whippy yellow poos, he was doing 2 poos a day but he started whinging, farting, he had bad wind pain & poos became worse, I couldn’t pick poos up, so I stopped feeding him the OptiDerma on Tuesday, as soon as he went back to his Wellness Core the next day Wednesday & today his poos are firm & he went back to normal, now he is starting to itch again 🙁
One good thing happened while I was introducing the Pro Plan OptiDerma dry kibble he had NO itchy smelly skin, no red paws, so he must be sensitive to the Chicken in the Wellnesss Core, the Wellness Core is also higher in protein-35% so he’s getting heaps more chicken, I always knew he has skin problems when he ate raw chicken & cooked chicken but when chicken is in some dry kibbles that are lower in protein his paws & skin isn’t that bad like when he ate raw chicken or cooked chicken thru elimination diet, the chicken doesn’t seem to affect his stomach or bowel only his skin….

[Spy Car]

SkeptVet is a notoriously dishonest broker who slews his arguments with misleading half-truths. I’ve learned that this source has no credibility and his claim to practice “science-based veterinary medicine” are false.

This is yet another example of what is business as usual at SpeptVet, He has created a straw-man argument here (that, according to him, some people claim carbs are “toxic” for cats). He can easily defeat his own straw-man because–strictly speaking–carbs are not “toxic” (as toxins are defined by science).

But that doesn’t make the argument that carbohydrates are either necessary or beneficial in a feline diet. They are not.

This is a dishonest source who abuses the principles of science to advance his own agenda.

Bill

[anonymous]

I would like to offer an opposing viewpoint. Article written by a veterinarian that practices science based veterinary medicine. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/06/dietary-carbohydrates-are-not-toxic-to-cats/ excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments. Also, you can use the search engine there to look up other topics.
Hope this helps someone 🙂

Dietary Carbohydrates are NOT “Toxic” to Cats
Posted on June 19, 2018 by skeptvet
“Folks who are critical of commercial pet foods or advocates for raw diets and other alternatives often rail against the evils of carbohydrates. The idea that dietary carbs cause disease is a central thesis of the recent “Truth About Pet Cancer” video series (my response to which is coming soon!). With cats in particular, the claim is made that since they are obligate carnivores, carbohydrates are effectively poison for this species, causing diabetes, cancer and all sorts of other diseases. There’s only one small problem with this claim: it isn’t true”!

PS: If you are confused about the differing opinions and information that you find on the internet, please consult a veterinary healthcare professional that you trust, discuss your concerns and go from there.

[haleycookie]

Sheltie sass- did you read spy cars post? Protein has no bad effects on dogs. It’s a myth. In fact you suggest a raw diet which is almost completely made of protein, bones, and fat. I don’t think the protein levels are what’s the issue here. Just as spy car said dogs have no nutritional requirements to dogs (or cats) so adding rice would be counter productive to what the original poster is trying to do.