[Matt S]

Hi All!
I live in the UK and have a gorgeous 5year old Golden Retriever who I’ve always fed raw. He’s my 3rd Golden, my first two both reaching 14 years old, but both of them fed complete biscuit diet, with the odd treat of tinned meat.
My supplier here is filled TPMS, ( TPMS.co.uk )and I buy boxes of 25 x 1lb packs of mince beef and minced lamb. Info on the boxes are as follows.
Beef:- protein 16.2% oil 14.9% moisture 65.2%
Lamb:- protein 13.5% oil 16.3% moisture 66.7%

All seems well and his coat is fantastic and although he weighs 96lbs he’s not overweight. He has 1 pack a day with a cup of kibble.

Reading about pathogens in raw dog food (with the current corona crisis going on) has made me wonder if going dry/tinned would be safer?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the above food I’m giving him. If I can add photos I’ll add one of the food and label showing all details.

Cheers
Matt

[Chipy]

Hi Jen,

I’m sorry to hear that you are going through this with your dog. I know how upsetting this must be for you.

In the case of pancreatitis, Dr. Dobias recommends giving FeelGood Omega as it beneficial to cell repair and helps to heal the pancreas. This has really helped our dog.

FeelGood Omega®

I’ve also included a few articles here that I trust will be useful to learn more about the topic of Pancreatitis.

Pancreatitis in Dogs Treatment & Prevention Natural Approach:
https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11016097-pancreatitis-in-dogs-treatment-and-prevention-natural-approach

What Causes Pancreatitis in Dogs and What you can do:
https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014065-what-causes-pancreatitis-in-dogs-and-what-you-can-do

The Mad Science of Processed Food Making:
https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11015013-the-mad-science-of-processed-food-making

A high-quality protein diet is much better for dogs suffering from pancreatitis than starch, rice or a grain-based diet. He does not recommend feeding a low protein diet, but he does recommend lower fat meats for dogs with pancreatitis. Chicken, turkey, kangaroo, llama, rabbit and eggs are good examples of low-fat foods. He doesn’t recommend fatty meats, such as duck or lamb, or large red meat animals (beef, buffalo or bison) as they are higher in inflammatory factors.

https://peterdobias.com/pages/course-rawdiet

I hope this helps your pup. Wishing you both the best in good health!
Judi & Chipy

[haleycookie]

I would get with a vet nutritionist on this. They can help you formulate a proper balanced diet. Currently your dog is only getting half the nutrients it needs. Plain ground chicken isn’t balanced and shouldnt take up more than 10% of the daily diet. The raw you feed should also contain bone organs liver etc not just raw chicken.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by haleycookie.

[Jennifer N]

My Pumpkin is a 45 lb Shepherd/Shibu Mix, super active. He was abandoned at 1 month, and had GI/Giaradia/Recurring Pancreatis from about 2 to 10 months. Finally, I transitioned him off Puppy food and switched him over to a diet of 1/2 cooked ground chicken and 1/2 Honest Kitchen Whole Grain Dried Chicken. Which he tolerates VERY well (except for the big poops due to all the veggies, but they are perfectly consistent and perfectly formed…so I’m okay with this).

My question is, as long as I freeze the chicken, is there much risk to moving him to uncooked chicken? I know I’d have to do the transition gradually, but I figured since his stomach is already accustomed to the diet overall, moving from cooked chicken to raw would be a minor change. Would be great if I didn’t have to cook 60 lbs of chicken every month!

Thanks

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Jennifer N.

[Gina E]

3/24/20. By Gina Emenheiser: I know it’s been a long time since you posted this, however, if you get this reply it it will save you and others reading it, a lot of pain, concern, sick pups and cats, along with untold amounts of wasted money.
I raised goldens for 40 years. Goopy, painful ear infections were a curse.! When my last boy Fletcher was in such agony, I was frantically trying to find answers to help him as everything the vets recommended failed.
Google search had been getting better over the years and one day during my searching, I typed in… Ears smelling like gangrene! (for the truly did smell like rotten flesh)
I will cut to the chase… Thornet ear and foot cankor powder. A century old remedy for this malady. Still in production today. Mostly found in the UK and easily shipped, my niece in Twickenham sent a $12. Bottle to me. It was easily dusted in Fletchers ears with a cosmetic brush.
The itching and pain stopped immediately! The poor ol boy fell into a peaceful sleep and caught up on his rest. The ears cleared up like magic. The raw sores healed in a week.
Here’s the reason. Much like scabies, Burrowing Microscopic Mites Under the skin go undetected with normal Veterinarian scraping. The vet rules out parasites. And so begins a never ending cycle of solutions, diet changes, allergy tests, medications, on and on. PLEASE PLEASE help your dogs, cats and even rabbits from the pain and infection of ear mites and between the toes mites. It’s NOT an allergy!
I’m not affiliated with any sales or companies. I only want to get the word out. Ps: don’t bother asking your Vet about Thornit Powder. Neither of my vets had ever heard of it nor seemed interested. Best wishes to all animal lovers out there! I’ve been sending this same post into cyber space with the hopes of ending the needless suffering.

[Yazmin A]

Hi,

We’ll be getting an 8 week olde English bulldog in April, he’s currently on dry food and I would like to feed him on a raw food diet. How would I go about introducing this without upsetting his stomach? And which foods are the best to start with?

Thanks everyone

[Marisa J]

Hi I work at a pet store and have a hand full of customers with Shih Tzu’s.

If your dog has a sensitive stomach I would recommend adding goat’s milk (a universal milk) into your dogs diet. This will not only aid in digestion but also add hydration too! Some brands even added spices into the goat milk for added benefits.

If not goat’s milk I would encourage you to find a good probiotic powder for your dog. This will help with the sensitivity of your dogs stomach.

Merrick is good brand and Duck is a cooling protein (this will help with any inflammation). I would recommend after 2 months switching through Merrick’s formulas to help your dog become accustomed to other proteins and amino acids.

Other brands that are high in protein and low in carb (easier to digest) are Zignature, Orijen, Farmina, Acana, and Essence.

If your dog has a sensitive stomach I would also try introducing freeze dried treats. These treats are a lot easier to digest than biscuit treats. I only give my dogs freeze-dried raw treats.

[Marisa J]

Hi, I work in a pet store and lots of my customers have had concerns with DCM. Therefore I have done plenty of research on it to help out these customers and for my pets sake as well. It is a topic that I am very knowledgeable. I recommend reading the whole FDA article or at least skimming through it. There are two documents, one is all the cases and one is the FDA’s study. The results are inconclusive at the moment and many brands are working together with the FDA to further investigate.
From reading it I can tell that there are many factors that the FDA left out like affordability (who can afford the vet bills for these tests? What food are they feeding if they can afford? Are they feeding a more expensive kibble or a cheap one at Walmart?), genetics (what breeds are more likely to have which diseases? How many of this species is in the USA (out of 77 million dogs), metabolism (how can a dog digest a kibble diet compared to dehydrated, canned, freeze dried, or raw? How bioavailable is taurine in kibble?), what diets were these dogs on (a majority were on kibble only, some had a mixture, I think 1 or 2 were on raw, and couple had dehydrated foods).
In the end, out of the 500 some cases of dogs with DCM a huge section were fed kibble only diets. So, if anything I would link it more so as a kibble problem than a grain free vs with grains. With the research I have done looking at scholar articles, brand studies (of course always reading between the lines because brands what to do a study to help their brands cause), blogs, and websites, I have noticed that grains cause more inflammation in dogs than peas as they are not as easy for dogs to digest. They force the organs to work a little bit harder. If you notice too, no raw diets (at least that I have come across) have grains in them, only fruits and vegetable, and meat.

There are many other diseases like cancer, liver problems, kidney disease, and pancreatitis that are a lot more common than DCM. DCM affects a small amount of dogs (less than 600 out of 77 million dogs in the US). But if you do decide to feed grains. Please watch out for smelly ears, itching, and hot spots. As grains, along with chicken, are a very common allergy in dogs (since they are put into a lot of foods due to their low cost).

[Marisa J]

Hi I work in a pet store and study dog and cat nutrition at work and at home. Duck is a cooling protein that helps with inflammation but so is whitefish, alligator, red snapper, and there are a few others as well. As far as your concern with DCM; it is a topic that I am very wildly knowledgeable in and talk to many customers about. I recommend reading the whole FDA article or at least skimming through it. There are two documents, one is all the cases and one is the FDA’s study. The results are inconclusive at the moment and many brands are working together with the FDA to further investigate.

From reading it I can tell that there are many factors that the FDA left out like affordability (who can afford the vet bills for these tests? What food are they feeding if they can afford? Are they feeding a more expensive kibble or a cheap one at Walmart?), genetics (what breeds are more likely to have which diseases? How many of this species is in the USA (out of 77 million dogs), metabolism (how can a dog digest a kibble diet compared to dehydrated, canned, freeze dried, or raw? How bioavailable is taurine in kibble?), what diets were these dogs on (a majority were on kibble only, some had a mixture, I think 1 or 2 were on raw, and couple had dehydrated foods).

In the end, out of the 500 some cases of dogs with DCM a huge section were fed kibble only diets. So, if anything I would link it more so as a kibble problem than a grain free vs with grains. With the research I have done looking at scholar articles, brand studies (of course always reading between the lines because brands what to do a study to help their brands cause), blogs, and websites, I have noticed that grains cause more inflammation in dogs than peas as they are not as easy for dogs to digest. They force the organs to work a little bit harder. If you notice too, no raw diets (at least that I have come across) have grains in them, only fruits and vegetable, and meat.

But if you do decide to feed grains. Please watch out for smelly ears, itching, and hot spots. As grains, along with chicken, are a very common allergy in dogs (since they are put into a lot of foods due to their low cost).

[Ciera D]

I have *(two)* Bernese Mountain Dogs, both are around 100lbs. I plan on feeding each 2lbs per day or about 2000 calories. I am wondering how much it costs per month to do your own raw diet. I cannot afford the prepackaged stuff because it would end up being around 400 a month. Or fresh pet would be about $280/month for both of them. I want to keep my cost to about $100-$120/month.
Along with the cost, how much in weight are you giving in the meat /vegetable ratio.
Thank you, Ciera

[Chipy]

Hi Lindsay,

Some dogs are more sensitive than others when it comes to different smells, tastes and textures in their bowl. It is also nutritionally sound to feed a cooked diet. It can be helpful in dogs that either refuse to eat raw meat or in dogs that are weakened or older and do not digest raw meat well.

Dr. Dobias has created a free Raw and Cooked Diet Course which contains videos and articles full of information on this subject;
https://peterdobias.com/pages/course-rawdiet

He also has an online Recipe Maker that helps dog lovers create healthy custom recipes. It provides guidance on amounts of each ingredient and which ingredients are best;
https://recipemaker.peterdobias.com/

Wishing you and your boy all the best in good health! 🙂
Chipy

[Patricia A]

Kathleen has your JR gained weight when the tumor spiked in growth? Some info from an article on fatty tumors below.
Because lipomas are so common in overweight dogs, one obvious treatment is weight loss. In some cases, diet and exercise have reduced the size of existing lipomas and may have helped prevent new ones from developing. Even if your dog’s lipomas don’t shrink as a result, helping an overweight dog trim down should help her feel better and be more active.

Switching to a raw, grain-free diet has been said to help some dogs, although most raw diets are high in fat, which may be counterproductive.

Limiting vaccinations may help some dogs, especially if lipomas tend to occur after vaccination.

“In my practice I have been following several dogs who are now 6 to 14 years old,” says Judith K. Herman, DVM, of Augusta, Maine. “So far these dogs, all of whom received minimal vaccinations and are fed raw, have not developed any lipomas. Most are Jack Russell Terriers, Belgian Tervurens, Labrador Retrievers, and Golden Retrievers.”

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Kris did your vet have any concern regarding this…Orange Dog Poop
It could indicate a liver issue or biliary disease, or it could just mean that your dog’s food moved too quickly through the GI tract to pick up the bile. Bile is what changes poop to the normal brown color we expect. If your dog has orange diarrhea, contact your vet.
I have two chihuahuas’. One never has a problem with stomach issues. My other is sensitive to feeding certain foods which results in diarrhea or vomiting. I have been feeding both Freeze dried Primal and Stella Chewy’s raw coated kibble in chicken with no stomach issues ever. I see a lot of people on the Stella’s site who’s dog had various problems with other food but do very well with Stella’s. If diet is what is causing the diarrhea then maybe get a sample of Stella’s kibble and introduce VERY slowly. You can read here on their f/b page all the positive comments. https://www.facebook.com/stellaandchewys/

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Patricia A.

[Marisa J]

I would try goat’s milk since it has tons of probiotics in it and helps rebalance the gut. It will make sure your puppy is has more good gut bacteria than bad gut bacteria. It will help with the loose stool along with hydrating your puppy as well. As far as a diet, I would try something that is complete and balanced like a dry food (without corn, wheat, soy, by-products, and grains), dehydrated (without grains), freeze dried, or raw. Ideally raw food is the best diet for dogs and kibble is the least freshest food.

[Marisa J]

Hi! I work in a pet store and feed a raw diet for my dogs. I would try switching up brands of where you get the raw. Do you buy it from the grocery store or a pet store or hunt for it? Try switching up brands! If your puppy still wont eat the raw try adding bone broths on top. I really like the frozen bone broth from Primal! I’ve had some customers relate it to “crack” for their dogs.

[Chipy]

Hi DanDad,

I completely understand your concern about commercial dog food. It’s very difficult to trust any brand nowadays while the industry is so unregulated. It’s so awesome that you are considering to prepare home cooked meals for your pups.

We switched to home-made meals years ago and it was the best decision for our dog. I am happy to share some resources that have been super helpful in guiding us to prepare balanced, home-cooked meals.

This online Recipe Maker will help you build healthy meals for your dogs with the ingredients you have available. It provides guidance on amounts of each ingredient and which ingredients are best;

https://recipemaker.peterdobias.com

Dr. Dobias has created a free Natural Diet Course which contains videos and articles full of information on this subject;

https://peterdobias.com/pages/course-rawdiet

The key is to offer a variety of both proteins and vegetables, and add essential nutrients (non-synthetic, whole-food based supplements) to help fill in any nutritional deficiencies;

Dog Essentials

I hope you find the above information useful for your beloved Chihuahuas. Wishing you a great rest of the week! 🙂
Chipy

[Angie C]

I’m looking for a Co-op on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, I’m in Queen Anne’s county. I have 2 dogs that are on a raw diet and I’m trying to cut my food expense down. Would like to try Titan raw dog food. Thanks in advance!

[Teagsmom]

So sorry, I forgot to post back. We switched to a LID duck diet and her enzymes went back down to normal. I feed primal duck in evening and Go! Duck sensitivities mixed with vital essentials raw duck nibs. MY vet said it was a food intolerance. Unfortunately we need to switch AGAIN bc my vet wants her off any food with peas, legumes etc due to DCM. I can’t find a food without those ingredients. Primal would cost $80 month which is too much. FYI my dog is approx 12-13 yr old Chi mix. She’s a rescue so age is a guesstimate.

[Nicole H]

Thanks Patricia, I appreciate you replying. I can’t think of anything that changed in his raw food diet? I was switching up the different proteins every week or two. Maybe something different triggerd him? I am being very conscious now about fat content in his food since the vet said “pancreatitis”
I wondered if maybe the kibble could be aggravating the situation since he is not used to it.
I got some chicken breasts and have boiled them and been adding that to the kibble. Sounds like maybe I should just do plain boiled chicken breast only for a bit?
at this point I am open to any suggestions and options.

[Patricia A]

Nicole H I’m curious if ANYTHING had changed in his raw feeding diet when this started? Were any food ingredients added that was new to him? You said he’s been on raw for years with no problem? Was he fed too much of a fatty meat for a few days in a row ? My one dog cannot handle a protein higher in fat and will get diarrhea and vomiting if given two days in a row. I’m not talking raw but when I give cooked food such as dark meat boiled chicken, hamburger that is not 90% lean etc.
Also switching over to kibble right off when his stomach is still very upset is not helping. He didn’t get a chance to get used to that food. That is a BIG switch from raw to kibble.
Maybe to get his stomach settled you can feed WHITE meat only boiled chicken with a little white rice. Then slowly introduce the raw back in with low fat meats??
Although raw feeders don’t believe freeze dried is TRULY raw feeding that is what I feed my two. I always stick to lower fat proteins/flavors in two different brands rotated My dogs do very well on this diet with no tummy trouble. I add some high quality kibble on the side to make the expense of this stretch.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Nicole H]

not going to go back to raw diet, just having a hard time understanding why he is good for a couple days and then gets sick again. So many questions, i dont know what to do.

[anonymous]

Going back to raw is about the worst possible thing you could do. It may take a long time for the dog to recover from the damage the raw diet has caused. Some of the damage caused by the raw diet may be permanent.

Please continue to work closely with your vet, diet recommendations and all. I would go along with more testing, or ask for a referral to a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.

[Nicole H]

My dog started having repeated episodes of bloody diahrea and vomiting clear foamy mucus. Vet did xrays , blood tests and stool tests. Xray was clear and stool tests came back negative. Blood tests showed pancreatitis. He has been on a raw food diet most of his life so the vet figured it was the raw food contributing to these issues and said we should switch him to Royal Canin Gastro low fat kibble. So we stopped the raw and went to the kibble right away. He is still having issues. He will be great for a couple days and then have a bout of bloody diahrrea for a day and then be good again and then a couple days later another flare up. Wondering if this kibble could be the issue? I am at my wits end and no help from the vet but more tests .

[haleycookie]

The only case where a dog should be permanently on a soy based food is if they have EXTREME allergies to every other protein. Which is incredibly rare and will probably be a life long struggle for u and him if that is the case. Diets like the one he’s on are usually given for elimination diets to narrow down ingredients the dog is sensitive to. I’ve have seen ppl who feed chicken based diets and the dogs are horribly allergic to chicken but when switched to a fresh or raw food diet they don’t have the reaction anymore. If you’re interested in adopting the dog I would see if the rescue (or your vet) can refer u to a vet nutritionalist whom can make u up a proper balanced diet using fresh foods that wouldn’t flare up his allergies.

[AntiCorn D]

We have a 4 yo Westie that is plagued by digestive problem: vomiting bile, constant licking, diarrhea, stomach noises. She also has severe allergies here in Florida, possibly lawn care related. She is on a hydrolyzed protein diet which is somewhat helpful and we’ve tried omeprazole with some help. I tried giving her a teaspoon of plain greek yogurt when her stomach growls and gurgles, and often it cures the sounds immediately. H pylori infection hasn’t been ruled out. She did end up with mild pancreatitis one time when she was vomiting a lot, also had some diarrhea; probably just dehydration, but lab work did show elevated pancreatic enzymes. I found this thread while searching for a raw food diet that may help the puppers. I was thinking about starting her on such a diet to see if it would help.

[anonymous]

First of all the folks at the shelter are not veterinary healthcare professionals. I would ask to speak to the vet that examined the dog and prescribed the therapeutic diet. Your request will probably be denied.

I would then request to take the dog to a vet of my choosing for an examination (you pay). The diet you mentioned is probably a food trial to rule out sensitivities so I would suspect that the dog may be suffering from allergies.

If this is the case the dog will need to be under the care of a veterinary dermatologist for the rest of it’s life.
There is no cure for allergies but there is effective treatment.

And, NO, there is no substitute for prescription dog food, the one you mentioned goes through a special process so that the dog will not respond to any of the ingredients. Hence, the price.

All commercial dog food is subject to cross contamination. If you think the cost of the dog food is too much I would not adopt this dog. Allergies usually require lifelong treatment, they have flareups so it can be expensive.

BTW: There are no veterinary healthcare professionals affiliated with this site. Some of the regulars give dangerous advice involving raw diets and such.

Good luck

[dogsforever123]

Have you considered a raw diet? Dogs tend to love it and you can incorporate raw foods quite easily…I don’t have any specific dog food brands I would recommend so I suggest you try a few different types of dry and wet food and see what your puppy likes.

[Patricia A]

C.S maybe too fast of a transition. Take her to your vet and make sure she’s okay first. Make sure the boiled chicken is white meat only. I’m saying this because dark meat always gives my dog soft poops. Maybe too high in fat. Your doing the right thing by getting off the kibble diet. I have not transitioned mine to what the raw community considered “true” raw diet however, I did go to a high quality freeze dried. I stick to the ones lower in fat and I SLOWLY rotated the proteins/flavors AND also brands. Their stools are great and they are full of energy and last checkup perfect blood work. Some dogs maybe just don’t do well with raw but you can try freeze dried which is the next best thing nutritionally for your dog. Just remember a SLOW transition.
If you are interested in premade in either raw or freeze dried Susan Thixton has her new list out for 2020 with companies she knows to be not only totally transparent of everything that goes into their food but also farmers who are truly humane to their livestock. There is a ton of information regarding the reasons behind why a manufacturer/food makes her list each year. Dr. Becker also respects her list along with thousands of other pet lovers.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

Stop the raw immediately. There are no veterinarians or veterinary nutritionists affiliated with this site.
Hope this helps

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

and https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10.2460/javma.243.11.1549

Please take your dogs to the vet, asap, they may need emergency treatment. based on the symptoms you described,

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by anonymous.

[C.S]

Hi everyone,
I have a 2yo Weimaraner cross Staffordshire bull terrier who I switched over to raw food 3 weeks ago. I was using a guideline found on BARF UK FB group but I’ve been unable to get some advice on the issue I’m facing now so hoping someone on here can help!

We were on week3 of transitioning from kibble so she was being fed 1/4 chicken and 3/4 beef mince. 600g per day split between two meals. She was on that from last Tuesday until this Monday when she did a bloody poop.

This has happened before six months ago when she was being fed kibble. Vet prescribed antibiotics I think and bland diet for a week. Since it was only the one poop this time around and she wasn’t off as she had been before I’ve just had her on boiled chicken/cod and rice or sweet potato from Monday night.

However her poops have not quite firmed up yet and I’m confused as to what do going forward. The guide I was following said in week four she should be fed duck and beef both of which are high fat and low fat seems to be the way to go after some research.

I’m very new to this and would like to keep her on raw as I’ve noticed many improvements over the past couple weeks including breath/teeth/coat and the fact that she’s eating it and scavenging less which was the main reason for switching her as she would go off kibble constantly.

Hoping someone with experience of this can help me through.

[Patricia A]

Hi Nadia. I’m so glad to hear how well Lacey is dong the frozen raw. It gives me confidence to to switch over from the freeze dried with my two Chihuahuas’. I know it will be cheaper with the frozen also..But I do like the convenience of not having to defrost. I always forget even to defrost my meat so another thing to remember for me. lol I remember a few years ago when there was a rep from Stella & Chewy’s at my local Pet Supply store with samples of their freeze dried. I didn’t even stop to get a pamphlet. It was so foreign to me to give anything else but kibble. After I saw the film as you did Truth about pet food I tried out the freeze dried. I subscribe to Thixton’s list also every new year. So happy that Tia and Loli are doing so well on the different brands and proteins . Just feel good about feeding them what I feel is a much better diet then kibble or canned.I enjoy their enthusiasm when eating and never any stomach problems. My next step is to stop the kibble base. I only give five or six with the freeze dried. I throw that in after I add warm water to the food so it stays crunchy. . I’m worried they’ll miss the little bit of crunch if I stop. lol
Going to order a small Raw bistro from my pet supply store. Maybe use as treats along with the Bixbi Rawwbles I now use. Happy Holidays to you and Lacey!

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[haleycookie]

KD is almost nothing but carbs with a tad bit of fat and even a smaller amount of protein. I would honestly switch to a canned or raw/cooked diet. You’ll want low phos which is what KD does in the cheapest (but most expensive price tag) way. I would ask the vet to be sent to a vet nutritionalist to see if they can help u formulate a high protein low fat low carb diet for your dogs using fresh ingredients. You’ll see the fat melt off your male and his allergies will likely improve as well.

[anonymous]

Start walking him for at least an hour a day. He sounds bored.
Btw: All healthy dogs act like they are starving all the time.
Keep the trash where he cannot get at it. Don’t leave him unattended outside.

Didn’t you learn your lesson about raw? http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

Sounds like your dog did best when you went by what the veterinarian that examined your vet advised.
Good luck

PS: there are no veterinary healthcare professionals affiliated with this site.

[Bee W]

i started feeding my dog (a mini schnauzer) raw food because i thought its the best for him. the reason i started doing so is because he doesn’t do well on dry food, and stars to have serious stomach ache after a month or so with the dry food (we tried a few companies/ brands). after feeding him a month or so with raw i started seeing blood in his urine so i rush to the vet and the vet tells me that i have been feeding him with a diet that contains too much protein. during that month i saw great changes: he was more energetic and less hungry, stopped looking for food when we walk outside. The vet recommended me to give him more complicated carbs like sweet potato, brown rice and etc. then i talked to a pet nutritionist and she told me it’s better to cook the meat because of different bacterias. she told me what should be the proportion between the meat, organs , carbs and vegetables and to add cooked eggs, sardines, fish oil and coco oil every day. i did what she told me and now his protein levels are okay. So i kept on going. two mounts later he acts as if he’s hungry all the time, always digging in our trash, trash outside and looking for random food. i don’t think it’s a behavior problem but maybe more nutritional. maybe i should give him raw meat again but with carbs and vegetables. please share your experience with. what do you think i need to do?

[GSDsForever]

Hi Victoria.

First (so I don’t forget it!), no, you cannot use cooked pancreas for EPI. It *must* be raw for the active enzymes needed. Vets know this — it’s a special exception recommended in otherwise normal, healthy dogs with EPI.

In your dog’s case, an older dog with cancer, I wouldn’t worry about trying to use pancreas. Just stick with the Enzyme Diane/other prepared enzymes as they are highly effective. For B12, a lot of dogs use WonderLab pills vs the injections.

I share your vet’s concerns about DCM and the connection to many current grain-free/high legume formulas, your dog’s heart murmur, as well as raw for your dog, and agree with his guidance. (Also, while I am respectful of raw feeding, I prefer gently cooked homemade food as ideal anyway and don’t find a benefit for my dogs in raw.)

It’s just hard to capture all those criteria — along with low fiber, low insoluble fiber necessary in particular for EPI dogs — in commercial kibbles, especially here in the U.S. at this time.

Aside from what HaleyCookie pointed out well (Thank you, HaleyCookie!), the starch binding in kibbles, I think companies add to the problem. They just don’t want to spend the money, chance cutting into their profits by including more quality animal protein, which is expensive. Or they don’t think that the public will buy the products at a necessarily higher price — and, here, they might be right.

I mentioned those particular GF formulas ONLY as something you could potentially do part homemade with, and that other EPI dogs are using with success.

Another formula currently being re-released and available again, which *might* work for you with some tweaks (you’ll need lower % fiber in an EPI dog; perhaps you can accomplish this diluting it with what you add homemade?):

Farmina LIGHT Chicken & Pomegranate with Ancestral Grains
34% Protein/11% Fat (6.4% Fiber)
https://www.farmina.com/us/dog-food/n&d-ancestral-grain-canine/113-chicken-&-pomegranate-light-medium-&-maxi.html

I really like Farmina and my German Shepherd is doing very well on their food. I use a different formula, higher in fat and low in fiber (typical of most Farmina formulas).

A board certified veterinary nutritionist I would recommend is Lisa Weeth, DVM DACVN.
http://www.weethnutrition.com/about-us.html
https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com/

You can work with her long distance, through your vet. She is very supportive of homemade diets and experienced with them, and is also more open minded, fair, unbiased across a variety of commercial diets and brands imo. I think you would get a better diet from her for the money than from some other prominent services/DACVNs.

You can get a good feel for what she’s like from her nutrition blog, both her blog and Q&A section (click on “comments” at the top), in that 2nd link. You might ask her some questions there, about a commercial kibble or your current homemade additions; she’s pretty gracious and generous in her answers. (Your questions would tie in to her recent blog entries on DCM & diet, also one on grains.)

I like Susan Wynn, DVM DACVN, also but she left private practice in nutrition in January 2019 to work for Nature’s Variety.

I think the expensiveness comes from the pre-diet formulation blood tests & work up you’ll need to submit (costs dependent upon your own vet), but I think they need that to ensure that a major health issue is not present so that when they formulate a custom diet for your dog it is safe and appropriate, does not make an underlying health problem worse. And, as you’ve already seen for yourself, multiple health conditions & diet parameters, not only require review of all your medical file, but presents a diet more challenging, complicated to formulate. In your case, if you have any of those blood panels, etc. already done recently, then you’ve already spent that money. Talk to her assistant & ask about costs, what is included, your concerns. (They were very helpful with me.)

With Just Food For Dogs, the cheapest by far is doing their DIY — where you buy their recipe + balancing supplement. I just don’t know whether any of those would be appropriate for your dog, with her conditions and the diet parameters. They have good customer service (and knowledgeable veterinary staff) if you want to ask them.

I was encouraged by — and have considered using a couple of their diets myself — an independent review I read from a guy who broke down his total costs for a large breed dog about mine’s weight, showed the receipts and shopped at Whole Foods no less(!), to feed one of the formulas the DIY route. With this diet, you do feed lower total calories because it is fresh whole foods gently cooked, using highest quality ingredients, and is therefore highly digestible. So, his cost was lower than what I would have assumed for a large dog.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by GSDsForever.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by GSDsForever.

[GSDsForever]

Olessia’s diet for Izzy, with EPI + diabetes, has been *something* like this (check w/her):

80% homemade/20% Annamaet Lean

Fresh, cooked homemade portion: Lean Meat/Fish, Sweet Potatoes, 1/3 Raw Egg, Fat Free Cottage Cheese, Fish Oil
+ Vitamins/Minerals and Bone Meal

Note: Annamaet Lean is a high protein, low fiber, low fat food, grain-free.
30% Protein/7% Fat (<3.5% Fiber)
It does have legumes as primary ingredients, along with the meat (chicken, duck, herring meals), + tapioca & potato. It IS an excellent company.

LEAN FORMULA

You might explore adding a very small amount of grain to this recipe, to be grain inclusive as you & your vet prefer. Using the Annamaet Lean, with its legumes, at 20% of the diet is likely a lower risk (for DCM).

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by GSDsForever.

[haleycookie]

You will never find a low carb grain inclusive food sorry to say. See if you can be referred out to a vet nutritionalist to help formulate a low carb low fat homemade either raw or cooked diet. Kibbles HAVE to have a lot of carb to hold them together. Even the highest meat content in a kibble will still have ~30% carb. Might look into canned food options as well but again they will not be grain inclusive if they are low sugar carb fat etc. the closest I can think of are weruva and tiki dog. Usually dog foods that are in shreds of clearly chicken meat are going to be the lowest carb and lowest fat because they are basically just shredded muscle meat.

[haleycookie]

Dogs are actually mesocarnivores. And should be on a diet with <~30 carb. Which youll never find in a grain in food. In fact I’d say 90% of grain free kibbles aren’t even formulated that way. That’s why it’s important to find a meat based kibble as just a base. Add in less processed foods like canned, freeze dried raw, bone broths, and frozen raw etc for a better more varied diet. Raw and home cooked properly formulated would be best. Especially for a dog with allergies where u want to control the foods they ingest as most of not all dog kibbles are exposed to cross contamination in factories.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by haleycookie.

[Coleen A]

So my purebred Catahoula Leopard dog has been having a run of UTI’s. He is 1yr 4 months, we have checked his protein levels non-UTI and during a UTI, elevated only during a UTI and we have done x-ray for bladder stones (negative).

Vet wants me to find a food that has a protein count of no more than 20%….he IS allergic to chicken which makes this even harder.

Currently he eats Sport Dog Dock Dog blend, and Canine Caviar topper…He is suppppppper picky about his food, which of course is unlike a Catahoula to begin with.

Any recommendations would be helpful….we tried the raw diet option, it did not work out for him.

[anonymous]

Hope this article helps someone.

From SkeptVet TV- Raw Diets for Pets
Posted on December 6, 2019 by skeptvet

From SkeptVet TV- Raw Diets for Pets

[anonymous]

I hope this article is helpful to readers. It’s a few years old but still just as accurate, there are more recent Nutrition articles at this site, just use the search engine
Click on link to read comments

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?
Posted on July 8, 2012 by skeptvet
It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies.
Most veterinarians do have at least a semester course on nutrition in general. And a lot more information on the subject is scattered throughout other courses in vet school. So the idea that we know nothing about the subject is simply ridiculous. However, it is fair to acknowledge that most veterinarians are not “experts” in nutrition, if by this one means they have extensive specialized training in the subject. The real “experts” in this area are board-certified veterinary nutritionists, individuals who have advanced residency training in nutrition and have passed the board certification exam of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition.
Of course, as I always take great care to point out, expertise is no guarantee of never falling into error, particularly expertise based primarily on experience and a familiarity with the opinions of other experts rather than solid scientific research. Given the limited research data available on many important questions in small animal nutrition, even the real experts are often forced to rely on extrapolation from basic science or research in humans and their own clinical experience, which are important sources of information but always less reliable than studies specifically designed to answer these questions. Nevertheless, boarded nutritionists have a legitimate claim to expert status in this area. And as a group, they generally are skeptical of many of the alternative approaches to nutrition, as they should be give the paucity of data to support them As for the question of the role of the pet food industry in veterinary nutrition education, there is some truth to the claim that much of that education is sponsored by companies who make pet foods. Obviously, most veterinary nutritionists put their training to work researching and evaluating food for veterinary species, so the money and expertise in this area tends to concentrate in industry. And it is not entirely unreasonable to ask the question whether or not this influences the information veterinarians get about nutrition. It quite likely does.
This is not the same thing as saying that veterinarians are all lackeys or dupes of industry and unable to think critically for themselves, however. I am generally as skeptical and critical of pharmaceutical companies and mainstream pet food companies as I am of herb and supplement manufacturers and producers of alternative diets. All of them have both a genuine belief (most of the time) in their products, a genuine interest in the welfare of the animals they serve, and a high risk of bias and cognitive dissonance that impedes their ability to see and accept the flaws in their own reasoning or the data that contradicts their beliefs.
One should always be aware of bias, but that awareness does not justify ignoring the arguments or evidence coming from a source with potential bias, only evaluating it carefully and critically. The reason science is so much more successful than unaided reasoning is precisely because it is a method for compensating for human biases and other cognitive limitations that interfere with our seeing the truth. Mainstream pet food companies undoubtedly have biases, but often they also have good scientific data, which is rarely available for the alternative products and approaches. Ignoring this data in favor of opinion, theory, or personal experience is not a recipe for improving the state of veterinary nutrition.
The real issue is not so much what do general practice veterinarians know about nutrition as what is the evidence supporting the alternative theories and products being promoted? The accusation that vets know little about nutrition, even if it were true, doesn’t invalidate their criticisms. The classis ad hominem fallacy is the strategy of attacking a person and imaging that somehow this attack says anything about that person’s argument. It is the mirror image, in many ways, of the appeal to authority fallacy, which involves claiming some special wisdom or expertise on the part of a person making an argument and then imaging that claim somehow proves the argument. If proponents of raw diets or other unconventional nutritional approaches wish to make a case for their ideas, they have to do it based on logic and facts, not on the presumed expertise of supporters or the supposed ignorance of critics. As always, it is the ideas and the data that matter, not the people involved.
That said, there is a certain hypocrisy to many of these criticisms in that they come from sources with no particular right to claim expertise in nutrition anyway. Proponents of alternative nutritional practices are almost never boarded veterinary nutritionists. Often they are lay people who have labeled themselves as experts without even the training general practice veterinarians have in nutritional science. And while they may not be influenced by the mainstream pet food industry, this only means they are less subject to that particular bias, not that they don’t have other biases. People selling pet food or books on veterinary nutrition are all too often blind to the hypocrisy of claiming their opponents are under the influence of pet food companies while ignoring the fact that they make money selling their own ideas or products.
Others who frequently claim most veterinarians know little about nutrition are themselves general practice veterinarians or specialists in some aspect of veterinary medicine other than nutrition. It may very well be true that they are well-informed about nutrition because they have an interest in it, but this is not evidence that their arguments are true and those of their opponents are false. It is not even evidence that they know more about nutrition than their detractors, who may themselves have studied independently in the area. If you’re not a boarded nutritionist, you can’t claim to be an expert. And whether or not you are an expert, your ideas must stand or fall on their merits and the evidence, not on any presumed superiority in your knowledge over that of your critics.
So I think it is fair to say that most general practice veterinarians have only a fairly general knowledge of veterinary nutrition. And it is fair to acknowledge that much of this information comes from a source with a significant risk of bias, that is the pet food industry. However, I see no evidence that proponents of alternative approaches to nutrition have a reason to claim they know more about nutrition than most veterinarians, or that they are free from biases of their own. Only boarded veterinary nutritionists can legitimately claim to be “experts,” and even this is no guarantee of perfect objectivity or the truth of everything they believe. Claims about who is or is not smart or informed enough to have an opinion on a subject are mostly a superficial distraction from the important elements of any debate, what are the arguments and data behind each position. Awareness of potential bias only serves to make one more careful and cautious in examining someone’s arguments and data, it doesn’t get one a free pass to ignore what they have to say.

[Jerry R]

The vast majority of vets have little to no experience in pet nutrition. The little they do have is what kibble companies that pay for their education tell them. This is no BS either.
Science diet is a major contributor to their education which clearly explains how such a poor dog food can be #1 vet recomended.
Don’t let people like anonymous contribute to these myths about raw feeding and meaty bones.
Vets are counting on exactly that because feeding raw significantly cuts into their livlihood in greatly reduced vet visits for health issues from allergies to arthritis.
My 18 month old red longhaired dachshund recently got an A++ clean bill of health from his dr. after a brief exam while getting his rabies booster giving mention to his very healthy skin and coat and unusually clean, white chompers not normally seen in his breed.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by Jerry R.

[anonymous]

Please speak to a veterinary healthcare professional (not on the internet) preferably a vet that has examined your dog and knows it’s history before going down this dangerous path.
I hope these articles help you or someone else.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

[Marcie D]

I use a toothbrush and dog enzymatic toothpaste but I am bad and I only brush when we are grooming however I have fed Oma’s pride raw pet diets for over 20 years and my last dogs were 16, never had their teeth cleaned and their teeth were white and breath fresh. I also give raw bones when they are lying around outside. When we are going in I take the bones, wash them off under the hose and put them back in a plastic bag in the freezer. I have an 11 year old mix, 10 year old GSD, 6 year old GSD and all are on raw, get bones occasionally and they all have the same white teeth and great breath. After I learned how to clean their teeth in college for Veterinary technology, I said I would never do that again to my dogs. Sorry Vets, I realize how necessary it is for many dogs but I think I have found a better way, at least for us. 🙂

[Kathleen E]

Hello,

My dog was a rescue 4 months ago. I put the kibble down and she would not even look at it. I wanted to have her on a raw diet so I just started her on it. She didn’t have issues and I am now changing her to a high quality kibble. Check out my other posts on the brand and specific food.

[Kathleen E]

Hello,
I just have a small contribution. I was/am feeding my German Shorthaired Pointer mix a raw diet. I want to change her to a manufactured diet and I have looked at many ingredients.
I found one called Canidae Grain Free Pure Ancestral Freeze dried raw coated Fish Formula. It is almost all fish. My dog loves loves it. Not a typeo.
It is less expensive than feeding her the raw diet and for me easier.

I was thinking this might be something to look into??

[anonymous]

@ Helen S

Please listen to the folks that you adopted the dog from.
The worst thing you could do right now is make any change to his diet. never mind a drastic change.
Raw sucks and will most likely cause more problems. No reason for it.

Please go here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/ for science based veterinary information, use the search engine there to look up nutrition .
Find a vet that you like and trust and work closely with him if the dog’s symptoms continue.
But, honestly it takes an adult at least a month to adjust to a new home.
Patience.

There are no veterinarians or veterinary nutritionists affiliated with this site.
But I suspect there are vet haters.
(I am not a vet)
Other sites you may find helpful: Reddit Ask a Vet, or Reddit Dogs.
Good Luck

[Nadia K]

I second trying freeze dried food. My pup didn’t like kibble either, even after trying various brands. When I changed her over to the Stella & Chewy freeze dried patties everything changed. She would not only eat everything in the bowl but would come back several times just to lick the bowl. She loves the Primal freeze dried as well as I have rotated the two brands. I am now getting ready to change her over to a raw frozen diet which I am sure she will love even more.

[Sarah Y]

I have a beagle that I rescued a year ago. He was in really poor shape and since being with us his coat and body look great. He is soft and shiny :-). However, we are having problems with his anal glands being full. He does not scoot, but he has leaked and even when having him checked by the vet, they always say his glands are full, especially on the left side. (I mention that because the last two times they tell me, “his glands are full on the left and not the right”)

It seemed his poops have been formed, but not solid. I assume this is why he doesn’t express his glands well?

We talked to the vet about trying a higher fiber diet and if that doesn’t work, trying limited ingredient diets. He has been on the original wellness core since being with us. I tried switching him a couple of weeks ago to the Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost Healthy weight food and we are having the same issues. In fact, perhaps not quite as formed as he was on the CORE. We gradually changed him over to NV over a week and he’s been on the full NV diet for about 8 days now.

We also tried him on Glandex the fiber supplement for about 4 months and there really wasn’t any change. We are sort of wondering if it’s ingredient related.

I’m thinking maybe trying another high fiber, different protein diet to see if that helps and I wondered if there were some suggestions. I will admit, I’m afraid of TOTW, Earthborn, and some of the other foods on the DCM food list. NV is on the list, but I didn’t realize it until I bought it. I know nothing is proven, but Acana, TOTW, Earthborn are pretty high on that list too. I wouldn’t mind trying another wellness food since it’s not on the list if one is recommended for anal gland problems.

Any suggestions for another protein that may work for anal gland problems that’s higher in fiber? Or should we go straight to limited ingredients?

Thanks in advance!

Edited to add: it seems Wellness Core Lamb and Wellness Core Wild Game (6% fiber), Wellness core ocean (7% fiber). Are any of these better for digestion? for anal glands?

• This topic was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Sarah Y. Reason: added wellness core foods
• This topic was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by Sarah Y.

[william M]

The controversy isnt one. Kind of like my 78 year old vet. He’s convinced raw is terrible, chicken bones deadly and most other bones and basic meats a waste of money and time , and would love to see my hounds on some science diet scam. I’ll pose to all for you the same question I do to him….When have you found a dead coyote or wolf with a chicken bone in their throat? Same goes for every other wild carnivore eating my chickens from skunk and coons to weasels and fishers. Time to pull the collective head out of our dark holes and realize, your DOG is a canis Lupus. That means wolf from the get go, or wild dog. they do well with raw as well as cooked meats. They love the awful (body cavity parts especially liver, kidney, lungs, heart etc.) and all the connective sinew on the bones and joints. Does their teeth and general oral health immense good.
All this said, let me just qualify my “EXPERT STATUS” as it were. I have raised and managed over 1200 head of beef cattle for several years for market, Had ranches and farms with EVERYTHING from waterfowl to ginnies. I am 55 and have had various breeds of dog from cockapoo’s to almost every breed and crossbreed of hound from germans to pointer to my latest and likely most clearly bred WALKER coon. All have been working hounds i.e. hunting or herding. I have always maintained one large crockpot for my dogs. I will say I have found one minor issue with my dogs and raw meats, and it’s the same for all wild critters….they get a taste for the raw meat of whatever they are eating. So if your raising chickens, best not to give too much raw chicken unless your discipline style with your dogs far exceeds their need to eat chicken. Just saying. Natural law dictates your dogs DNA drive to hunt, kill or just the desire to sniff and retrieve. Play up those traits based on the breed you got and they will be happy, healthy and live (in some cases) longer than you may think. End note… I have had dogs I would use to move cattle for miles with, or hunt for days with, but they were the worse house pets! And every one of them thought they were a lap dog when in the house! Hopes this helps a few on the fence about raw or cooked or processed foods. We use taste of the wild dry kibble as their 24/7 go to if they are peckish. They get a meat and some potatoe or squash mixed “wet or real food” once a day. I make my own with the crock pot and it varies from week to week from chicken to rabbit to beef and pork…..with the occasional venison or elk thrown in as a treat with livers, kidneys and heart and gizzard thrown in. Always good to check with the local stores to pick up all these items when they are close to pull dates and you can get them for up to 50% off. Wallmart carries 10lb frozen leg quarters fo 5.95 per bag. Thats .59 cents per pound for dark meat chicken….my dogs love it and between the two it serves them for a week. Hope all this helps.