Search Results for 'raw diet'

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  • #149612

    Patricia A
    Member

    I use kibble at times for a base to freeze dried or home cooked. I like to rotate kibble brands and proteins/flavors. I don’t like all the legumes in the brand I currently rotate with which is Stella Chewy’s baked raw coated. I also used their grain inclusive. Although my dogs have done very well on their food with my topper combinations of raw. I don’t want to stick to just one brand. I’ve read good things about Natures Logic. . I like the face that they use no synthetic vitamins. I also THINK that using millet is better option for the starch binder if what they say is true “Carnivore-appropriate Starch – Millet is the starch in our kibble. This grain contains less natural sugar than other starches frequently used in pet foods. Further, millet is much more likely to occur naturally in a wild dog or cat’s diet than chick peas or potato, so will be more familiar to their digestive systems.”
    Wondering if anyone has fed this or can share their thoughts on this brand. I at least want to keep up with the same level of quality nutrition or step up with the kibble and not go down.

    #149507

    In reply to: GRAIN FREE DOG FOOD ?


    haleycookie
    Member

    There has been no proof found of dcm being caused my grain free diets. The fda has instructed to not switch foods as there is not a reason to at the moment. There are very few cases and a lot of them include grain in foods. I would focus on feeding a meat based kibble (meat as first three ingredients minimum) as the base and adding in fresh meats, canned foods, and raw/freeze dried raw into your dogs diet to make it as protein and taurine rich and fresh as possible.

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 15 hours ago by  haleycookie.
    #149449

    In reply to: GRAIN FREE DOG FOOD ?


    Patricia A
    Member

    I believe that the consensus is out that feeding kibble for dogs whole life is not the best nutrition for them. Don’t believe the true cause as of yet has been found regarding DCM and grain diets. Many companies add a ton of legumes in their food displacing animal protein. When the dog was switched to a food that was high in meat(animal protein) their hearts returned to normal in some cases.
    Then you have grain inclusive. A starch is always needed in kibble to hold it together.
    This is a quote from a site I frequent. “On the other hand, some plant material such as rice, soybean meal and corn have some, although limited, usefulness in the meat eater’s diet. Corn, wheat, soy, rice and barley are not bad or harmful to dogs and cats. These plant sources are simply not good choices (we do get to choose what we feed our pets, don’t we?) for the foundation of a diet to optimally nourish animals what are, have been, and for the foreseeable future will be meat eaters.”

    Best if you feed kibble get your pet SLOWLY used to several brands and proteins and rotate every few bags. Even between grain and grain free. There are many toppers you can add such as freeze dried in various brands. I use Primal, Stella’ , Bixbi rawbbles . Frozen raw is less costly in these same brands. Also, use toppers of home cooked when appropriate. Boiled chicken, string beans, fish, steak etc. when your also eating this.
    I don’t believe you can go wrong with a variety of foods that agrees with your dog.

    #149409

    In reply to: Dr. Marty dog foods


    anonymous
    Member

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2019/11/dr-marty-goldsteins-natures-feast-raw-diet-a-look-at-the-infomercial/

    excerpt below

    Dr. Goldstein is another celebrity participant, a veterinarian to the stars. He is also a strong advocate of the bait-and-switch known as “integrative medicine.” This means he will sometimes use science-based treatments, but then often gives the credit for any improvement to homeopathy, acupuncture, raw diets, herbs, and other alternative treatments he also employs.

    #149034

    In reply to: Raw Puppy Diets


    Patricia A
    Member

    Not sure about kibble but I know raw or freeze dried Primal is all life stages. Their website lets you put in quick info and calculates approx. how many nuggets to feed for puppy of a certain age. https://primalpetfoods.com/pages/feeding-calculator
    PUPPIES

    In the wild, when puppies reach 4-5 weeks of age, the mother dog will naturally begin to regurgitate some of her raw foods for her puppies to consume. Thus, when domestically reared puppies reach approximately 4-5 weeks of age, you can begin introducing them to Primal Canine Formulas. Puppies should be fed one to two small (1-2 teaspoons) raw-food meals daily in conjunction with either the milk they consume from nursing and/or other foods you may be supplementing. Puppies should always be fed from separate bowls, as competitive feeding can promote overeating and indigestion. Gradually increase the quantity of Primal Canine Formulas foods every 2-3 days until 8 weeks of age, when the puppies are consuming two tablespoons of Primal Canine Formulas twice daily. At this point (8 weeks), the puppies should be fully weaned and can be fed a diet solely of Primal Canine Formulas and raw meaty bones. Puppies 8 weeks of age and older should be fed approximately 4-8% of their body weight daily in Primal Canine Formulas. Factors such as breed, overall health and level of activity play a part in the necessary feeding quantities of all puppies. Please be sure to monitor your puppy’s dietary needs and adjust the feeding quantities accordingly.

    #148995

    Mona S
    Member

    I noticed that in the Best of for Puppies, that only wet and dry foods were listed. Stella and Chewy has a raw freeze dried food for puppies, but otherwise most raw foods seem to be formulated for all life stages. Does Dog Food Advisor have a position on feeding raw to puppies?

    My vet is strongly against it as she believes their microbiomes are not developed enough to handle it. But she also recommended Purina Pro Plan as the best food, so nutrition is obviously not her strong point.

    Thanks,
    Mona
    p.s. my particular puppy is a mini aussie, so don’t need to take large breed feeding into consideration.

    #148946

    GSDsForever
    Participant

    Hi Nadia.

    Well, I have fed homemade (cooked) and will be again soon. But I have always stuck to the complete and balanced ones from vet specialists. My very first vet referred me to appropriate resources for homemade diets, and loaned me books, for nutrition information and recipes from specialists.

    I don’t believe in most, virtually all, recipes presented online or in books, as they are nearly always from sources without proper nutrition credentials. Also, I do not feed raw.

    Have you inquired with your vet? He may have some appropriate for normal, healthy dogs from veterinary nutritionists. You can also do a consult with a veterinary nutritionist (DACVN) in your area or remotely via your vet.

    Two easy to understand and follow sources you might try to just get started:1) DVM DACVN Susan Wynn’s paleo diet recipe online for normal, healthy dogs, 2)former UC Davis Vet School’s DVM, PhD Donald Strombeck’s book “Home Prepared Dog & Cat Diets” (original edition; do NOT buy the revised by a different author) which includes recipes used for many years with patients at UC Davis, including both healthy small animal recipes and therapeutic diets.

    #148564

    In reply to: Rating system


    pugmomsandy
    Moderator

    They have a higher fat-to-protein ratio. Some pets do fine on higher fat and some need lower amounts of fat. I feed a high fat raw diet currently which only has 2 stars but I like the ingredients – K9 Natural Beef Feast.

    https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/raw-dog-food-fat/

    #148528

    Lynn L
    Member

    I am feeding a raw diet and Only Natural Pet raw nibs was suggested. My dog likes it however, I wanted to mix it with other raw (Stella & Chewy) so I soaked the raw nibs to mix them up with the other. I’ve discovered very hard bits (non water-soluble) in the nibs. I’ve written twice to the mfg to ascertain what this is. My assumption is that it’s coarsely ground bone but I really don’t know. At any rate, I’m not feeding this food at present pending their response.

    Only Natural Pet suggested that I take pictures and send them but the pieces are quite small and just look like food product. I suggested whomever does their Q A soak 5 nibs in water for several hours and then attempt to flatten a nib. They will soon see for themselves what I’ve found. Sizes vary, some are sharp, at most the size of half a pea but when I have a 3 lb dog that size is significant to me. I can’t imagine anything that is not water-soluble that would be appropriate in my dog’s diet.

    Thought I would mention this as I’m working rather hard to feed a good quality diet to her and I assume you all might wish to make your own inquiries if you’re feeding this particular product.

    #147943

    Cory E
    Member

    Hi there,

    For one, you shouldn’t give your dog raw food or bone. Here’s why: https://goldenretrieverlove.com/can-dogs-eat-steak/. In a nutshell, raw food may contain salmonelly, and E-coli.

    Secondly, you should be careful and avoid giving him raw bone or any kind of bone for that matter. Bones are a choking hazard to dogs despite the perception that dogs are keen on eating bones.

    I would suggest to ask the vet the best diet plan for your dog, and how much meat/steak he should have per week.

    #147714

    In reply to: hydrolyzed dog food


    Susan
    Member

    Hi Eileen,
    If your dog has problems digesting food then I’d stay with the Freeze Dried raw as raw meat digest easier then Kibbles, Kibbles sits in a dogs stomach. My boy has IBD & he was vomiting back up the Royal Canine HP Kibble 8 hours later when he was 1st diagnosed with IBD, then he was put on a raw diet & he digested the raw easier no vomiting up undigested raw. 🙂
    Feed him the Stella & Chewy freeze dried food, he’s very smart & knows what agrees with him & what is best for him, listen to your dog.
    Vet diets are only temporary – NOT LONG TERM, so once your dog Stomach/Bowel has healed my vet told me to start introducing new ingredients to Patches diet.
    Then once he’s stable on the Stella & Chewy Turkey formula start looking at another Stella & Chewy meat protein, try the Rabbit it has similar ingredients in same place as the Turkey formula also the Rabbit will have lower fat, also the Venison looks good & lower in fat as well. Sometimes high fat can cause diarrhea??

    Start adding a new protein to his diet, read ingredients as some of the Stella & Chewy Freeze Dried formulas have a few organ meats in the 1st – 5 ingredients, organ meats can cause diarrhea when there’s too much, it all depends on your dog if he can handle organ meats, so don’t give up if you have a set back, you’re on the right track feeding freeze dried raw, Freeze Dried Raw is heaps better then any processed kibbles/wet can food.

    You know he can handle & eat Turkey so if you have to get a kibble get a limited ingredient Turkey formula,
    “Wellness” has pretty good dog foods & my boy does really well on Wellness Core, Wellness Simple formula’s with his IBD…
    This is what I feed Patch when he has a bad IBD flare, you’ll see my Patch in the middle photo, the kibble bag is bigger then him lol
    Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato has the Matching wet can foods as well

    https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

    https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners

    #147660

    Cannoli
    Member

    Hi Crazy4cats,

    Thanks for the kind words. Yeah i fell for the hype of High protein low grain diets, or raw food is best, or quality ingredients over corn and rice is better, and etc….

    I fed my pup this hype for over 3.5 years of his life and he still developed allergies….at the end of the day only my vet and vet dermatologist had the answers for what food to feed him…

    I feed my dog a raw frozen diet such as Stella and Chewys or Instinct. Raw diets can help dogs lose weight because they are lower in carbs. There is a lot less poop to pickup too!

    #147038

    In reply to: Ketona?


    Daniel S
    Member

    Hi there, I’m the founder of KetoNatural Pet Foods.

    On the issue of ingredient commonality, chicken is BY FAR the most prevalent ingredient in our chicken recipe (and salmon is by far the most prevalent ingredient in our salmon recipe). In both cases, the meat products make up 75% or more of the formula. And, unlike most pet food companies (including at least one of the two you’ve mentioned here) when I make that claim I’m making it on a post-dehydration basis. We add our chicken to our formula AFTER it has been dehydrated, so the percentage of the formula that is chicken is not skewed by the presence of water. Even after dehydration, it’s still the case that more than 75% of our formula is chicken. Your statement that chicken is the “fifth of sixth ingredient” is completely false, I assure you. It’s BY FAR the most common ingredient and I’m not aware of another kibble on the planet that has a higher ratio of animal products to starch than Ketona (and I’ve actually written a book about this subject, so I’m quite familiar with the marketplace!).

    (If you want to see this “dehydration issue” for yourself, go check out the website for Orijen by Champion Pet Foods. The company claims that most of its Orijen formulas are at least 90% meat products. But the formulas are also typically at least 25% carbohydrate. Animal products don’t contain carbohydrates. So something doesn’t add up. That “something” is the presence of water in the animal ingredients.)

    On this issue of price, it is indeed the case that our food is more expensive than many (but not all) kibbles. But it’s nutritional composition is different too. We have by far the lowest carbohydrate content of any dry pet food on the market today. Carb-heavy ingredients (corn, rice, potatoes, etc.) are the cheapest ingredients. And that’s why most kibbles are insanely cheap (far cheaper than the trashiest fast food on a per-calorie basis). Because our formulas feature more animal-based ingredients and fewer carb-heavy ingredients, they’re more expensive to produce. So we have to charge a bit more. But I’ll note that (1) our prices are only about 20-25% of nutritionally-similar raw diets (the only other types of pet food products that have a nutritional content remotely similar to ours) and (2) on a quantitative basis, switching a 50-pound dog from Acana to Ketona is only likely to add $0.50 to $1.00 per day to your dog food budget. Hardly a massive change.

    Regards,

    Daniel Schulof
    KetoNatural Pet Foods

    #146452

    Bill W
    Member

    Anyone that listens to their vet when it comes to nutrition and particularly if they warn of a raw diet should run away from that vet asap. Vets do not take courses on nutrition, they push junk dog food that manufacturers pay them dividends on. Raw is probably from a nutrition standpoint the best way to feed your dog. Vets dont want you to do that for the simple reason they get less visits to your checkbook. Those are facts from a nutritionist nut. Me

    #146444

    anonymous
    Member

    skeptvet says:
    April 21, 2019 at 1:23 pm
    There is no perfect food, and a food that works well for one dog may not work for another, so the best you can do is choose a maintenance diet from an established company (one with veterinary nutritionists on staff to oversee formulation and quality control) and then monitor important signs, such as weight, stool quality, coat quality, etc. There are many good choices and only a few I would recommend against (raw diets, and BEG diets).
    Above is an excerpt from :
    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/09/fda-webinar-discussing-dietary-risk-factors-for-dilated-cardiomyopathy/
    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
    Hope this helps!

    Also, a new book is out soon! https://www.amazon.com/Placebos-Pets-Alternative-Medicine-Animals/dp/1912701367/

    #146443

    Patricia A
    Member

    Hope someone doesn’t mind I’m sharing their post
    The idea of a “conversation” about PF with a Vet needs to be put into context.

    Here’s what Vets do. They treat specific ailments and the not even with a guarantee the pet will be cured (just our trust). We don’t sign any contract with them for guaranteed services. Treatments are based on rates (demonstrated cases) of (probable) success. Lawsuits are based on whether more harm than good was done to a pet based on proven carelessness or neglect. So except for vaccinations (some would consider prevention) Vets aren’t responsible for keeping a pet well (or even in superior health) because they have no control over what happens outside of the clinic. They have no control over the PFI either. They are as much a consumer-victim as is every other pet owner. They just buy wholesale from suppliers and not retail. In fact a Vet can only answer a question about diet with two possibilities: (One) feed anything safe or (Two) feed one of the 4 recommended brands. For a Vet to be suggesting (specific) PF does step beyond their “mission statement” as a profession. Otherwise they might as well be counseling an owner against all kinds of potentially hazardous situations, like poisonous substances, or dangerous devices like “retractable leashes” … and on it goes.

    Just as treatments are guided by studies and statistics, the 4 recommended brands (Purina, Mars, Hills & Royal Canin) were selected (not only because of financial incentives) but because there is no objective third party testing or evaluation done among all possible PF products. So the entire marketplace of PF can’t even be ranked across the board. Instead, Vets are assuming that feeding trials done by the 4 brands are at least “something” rather than nothing at all. Having a PF discussion with a Vet slides further downhill, being there are no long term (objective) scientific studies demonstrating the superior wellness of pets who eat raw or homemade diets, compared to commercial PF. In terms of the statistic that approximately 50% of pets are likely to die of cancer, who or how has that fact been correlated with brand name PF – is what the Vet will push back and ask.

    Recommending a homemade PF diet to just any or every client without understanding the owner’s level of competence, commitment and the requirements of the individual pet – is taking a chance. Doing so through a professional (animal) nutritionist is expensive. Baselines are difficult to manage. And if a pet’s lab profile is off, then that owner will question the Vet. When pet owners decide to feed homemade, generally it’s a (defensive) move to avoid substandard, rendered, spoiled ingredients (garbage) and choose food that is not. This is the biggest issue in terms of convincing (or at least informing) Vets about the critical difference between pet “feed” and “food.” We do not own “small animal livestock” we care for specialized (domesticated) dogs and cats for the sake of companionship! (Emotional welfare if you will). And to that purpose those pets share our life on a par with our human family so we require long term quality of life for them!

    If we’re going to have any dialogue with Vets it should be this. That Vets need to DEMAND of the Big 4 Suppliers, that if they are promoting their products they must be accompanied by premium pet FOOD too. (First) the commercial product is needed, (second) the testing to prove that it is, (third) earning a Veterinarian recommendation, and (fourth) demonstrating that there is a marketplace for assurances in PF!

    I suggest that Vets should receive the TAPF Newsletter, to keep them informed, provide access archived background, which would make having a conversation about PF with their clients easier, and to demonstrate the real need for Pet FOOD (not feed).

    This could be done through obtaining a database of email addresses for Vets nationwide.

    #146406

    Bobby dog
    Member

    haleycookie:
    You often recommend Nature’s Variety to posters and are also aware that Dr. Wynn, DACVN joined the company full time early this year. By recommending NV I believe you trust them and the people they employ. Here is Dr. Wynn’s response to “kickbacks.” You’ll also find the blog post good reading.

    “I continue to be amazed at the oft-quoted claim that vets get paid money to sell pet food. In any practice I’ve ever worked at (that’s about 8), the profit margin is actually LOWER on foods than on most drugs. I’m not sure why this is – it seems to be a deal that the pet food companies convinced vets to take in the early days of the relationship. A practice consultant once took me through the economics of carrying foods in my practice and convinced me that it was *costing me money* to stock them. Still, I stocked them as most vets do as a convenience for clients.

    Now one of the possibilities for a source of this rumor could be staff feeding programs, where a pet food company gives veterinary employees a discount on food (they don’t get it for free). I view this as one of the benefits of working in a veterinary practice – you also get a discount on services and other products, like you would as an employee in many other types of businesses.

    If your pet does really well on a pet food, well, then you become an advocate, just like people who have become advocates for other types of diets like raw diets. And if your pet does badly on a pet food, it’s up to you to recognize it.

    As far as I know, the claim that vets are paid money to carry pet foods is at best, ignorance, and at worst, a malicious lie. If there are documented examples of this practice that I’ve missed in over 25 years in this business, I’d like to hear about them.” ~ Susan G. Wynn, DVM

    http://vetnutrition.blogspot.com/2009/05/are-grains-all-bad.html?showComment=1301462938208#c2340306044723977976

    #146090

    anonymous
    Member

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2012/07/what-do-veterinarians-know-about-nutrition/
    excerpt below, click on link for complete article and other informative articles and comments

    The real issue is not so much what do general practice veterinarians know about nutrition as what is the evidence supporting the alternative theories and products being promoted? The accusation that vets know little about nutrition, even if it were true, doesn’t invalidate their criticisms. The classis ad hominem fallacy is the strategy of attacking a person and imaging that somehow this attack says anything about that person’s argument. It is the mirror image, in many ways, of the appeal to authority fallacy, which involves claiming some special wisdom or expertise on the part of a person making an argument and then imaging that claim somehow proves the argument. If proponents of raw diets or other unconventional nutritional approaches wish to make a case for their ideas, they have to do it based on logic and facts, not on the presumed expertise of supporters or the supposed ignorance of critics. As always, it is the ideas and the data that matter, not the people involved.
    That said, there is a certain hypocrisy to many of these criticisms in that they come from sources with no particular right to claim expertise in nutrition anyway. Proponents of alternative nutritional practices are almost never boarded veterinary nutritionists. Often they are lay people who have labeled themselves as experts without even the training general practice veterinarians have in nutritional science. And while they may not be influenced by the mainstream pet food industry, this only means they are less subject to that particular bias, not that they don’t have other biases. People selling pet food or books on veterinary nutrition are all too often blind to the hypocrisy of claiming their opponents are under the influence of pet food companies while ignoring the fact that they make money selling their own ideas or products.
    Others who frequently claim most veterinarians know little about nutrition are themselves general practice veterinarians or specialists in some aspect of veterinary medicine other than nutrition. It may very well be true that they are well-informed about nutrition because they have an interest in it, but this is not evidence that their arguments are true and those of their opponents are false. It is not even evidence that they know more about nutrition than their detractors, who may themselves have studied independently in the area. If you’re not a boarded nutritionist, you can’t claim to be an expert. And whether or not you are an expert, your ideas must stand or fall on their merits and the evidence, not on any presumed superiority in your knowledge over that of your critics.
    So I think it is fair to say that most general practice veterinarians have only a fairly general knowledge of veterinary nutrition. And it is fair to acknowledge that much of this information comes from a source with a significant risk of bias, that is the pet food industry. However, I see no evidence that proponents of alternative approaches to nutrition have a reason to claim they know more about nutrition than most veterinarians, or that they are free from biases of their own. Only boarded veterinary nutritionists can legitimately claim to be “experts,” and even this is no guarantee of perfect objectivity or the truth of everything they believe. Claims about who is or is not smart or informed enough to have an opinion on a subject are mostly a superficial distraction from the important elements of any debate, what are the arguments and data behind each position. Awareness of potential bias only serves to make one more careful and cautious in examining someone’s arguments and data, it doesn’t get one a free pass to ignore what they have to say.

    #146089

    Patricia A
    Member

    Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
    Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.

    So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
    Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.

    And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
    Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,

    Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.

    Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.

    Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.

    So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
    What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.

    #146085

    Patricia A
    Member

    Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
    Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.

    So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
    Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.

    And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
    Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,

    Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.

    Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.

    Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.

    So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
    What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  Patricia A.
    #146071

    anonymous
    Member

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2012/07/what-do-veterinarians-know-about-nutrition/
    excerpt below

    What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?
    Posted on July 8, 2012 by skeptvet
    It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies.
    Most veterinarians do have at least a semester course on nutrition in general. And a lot more information on the subject is scattered throughout other courses in vet school. So the idea that we know nothing about the subject is simply ridiculous. However, it is fair to acknowledge that most veterinarians are not “experts” in nutrition, if by this one means they have extensive specialized training in the subject. The real “experts” in this area are board-certified veterinary nutritionists, individuals who have advanced residency training in nutrition and have passed the board certification exam of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition.

    #146068

    anonymous
    Member

    @ Alice B

    Thanks for the feedback.
    Glad your dogs are doing well and that you are listening to your vet.
    You may enjoy this book that will be available soon “Placebos for Pets?: The Truth About Alternative Medicine in Animals”
    https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/cellbio-another-dubious-lab-test-from-hemopet-and-dr-jean-dodds/#post-146014

    PS: Large breed dogs are just as susceptible to GI problems/obstructions/blockage as small breed dogs due to raw diets/bones.
    Your vet will confirm.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  anonymous.
    #146063

    Alice B
    Member

    Yes the ground bone is likely the cause of hard poop problems
    I got caught up in the idea of rotating foods & raw foods for dogs, this practice is written about on a few forums I’ve read,
    it doesn’t seem to agree with my dogs digestion

    Maybe large dogs can cope with this style of diet better than toy breeds ?

    We went for a Vet check-up, both dogs are healthy & perfect weight, So happy with that outcome,
    When I discussed what the feeding plan I had been trying was, the Vet just said ” oh dear, PLEASE stick with Royal Canin”

    #146060

    Patricia A
    Member

    Alice. I use kibble as a base also and top it with Stella’s freeze dried or Primal. I have Chihuahuas and they never had hard poops using these freeze dried brands. Maybe you can try these for your Poms and see if these agree with them . However, it seems there is a plus to harder stools as article below:

    Clean anal sacs – Diets that have natural sources of bone make the poops firmer which requires your pet to strain a bit harder to defecate. This is normal and even beneficial, as the harder stools help the dog express its anal glands, keeping it clean and reducing the likelihood of infection. If you notice your pet straining for too long, or they appear constipated, you may have to rethink the ratios of your raw ingredients. Furchild takes out all the guesswork because we have done the necessary research and all of our Meals for Dogs and Cats have been formulated by raw pet food experts.
    Less Gas

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  Patricia A.
    #146056

    haleycookie
    Member

    Ideally a raw fed dog will poop maybe once a day and it will be very small. I follow a working raw fed gsd on insta and he poops once a day and it’s about the size of a baseball maybe smaller. As opposed to kibble fed dogs who poop bulky poops twice sometimes three times or more a day. “Normal” poop for a dog should be small, dark in color, and segmented. The dog should have no issues passing it. If they are constipated and straining then bone content could be too high which in a raw diet could be corrected by adding more organ meat. Just as soft poos can be combated with more bone.
    Bone is natural for a dog to eat. Obviously don’t feed weight bearing bones as they can crack teeth or split or shatter and cause obstructions. Bone ground up or whole bones like necks, backs, or non weight bearing bones are ideal.

    #145968

    haleycookie
    Member

    It’s unlikely your pup will be large breed. Try to stick with meat based foods, some of my favorites are, merrick back country, canidae ancestral, orijen, instinct raw boost, and essence dog food. All of these foods are going to be made up of mostly meat. They all (to my knowledge) employ vet nutritionalist to formulate their foods as well.
    I’d also recommend adding canned foods, dehydrated raw, frozen raw, and other topper type foods.
    Fresh pet is actually pretty good quality. It is much more fresh and meat based than kibbled foods. Kibble should ideally be a base and other types of less processed foods should make up the rest.
    Nature’s variety makes quality canned foods, frozen raw, and freeze dried toppers in a multitude of flavors, I would check those out, merrick has a wide variety of canned options for picky dogs. Tiki dog food also have very popular canned foods for picky dogs. Also the brand weruva has great canned foods too. You can add bone broths as well. Solid gold has a variety of those as well as other brands, you can also just boiling chicken (or bones) and use the broth off that. Cooked egg, plain kefir, and raw goats milk are nutritionally dense as well.
    Consider rotational feeding, this helps prevent allergies, pickiness in dogs, and it also helps in case the food u feed is recalled or discontinued. Rotational feeding just helps expand their diet and if u ever have to change for an emergency you will be prepared to do so. If u do decide to try rotational feeding try to start slow. Get the pup on one food for awhile then slowly switch over the course of a couple weeks. Eventually u will have no issues switching with no transitional period at all.

    #145948

    Alice B
    Member

    Hi everyone, I need some help understanding the logic of high meat diets
    when I have tried any, my 2 male Yorkies have very hard poop in small nuggets it does not look normal

    Both dogs are eating Royal Canin mini dry food, & do well on this, with normal poop

    The high meat diets they have tried, Ziwi peak, K9 Natural, & raw meat as a meal with veggies
    if these meats are species-appropriate, why do they produce such weird poop

    #145909

    In reply to: Home made diet


    Chipy
    Member

    Hi Tammy, it is great that you started making meals at home for your girl. I decided to do the same many years ago, but I am still learning something new every day. I’ve found this quick diet course that might be helpful for you; https://peterdobias.com/pages/course-rawdiet This vet also has good quality supplements, and an article explaining why dogs tend to eat poop; https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/5-most-common-reasons-why-dogs-eat-feces Hope this helps.

    #145673

    SARA M
    Member

    I have two French bulldogs and have been around the world with research, vets, holistic, etc.

    I finally had one of my dogs allergy tested via glacier peaks. It’s not the $$$ tests at the vet however it’s very accurate as far as I have experienced.

    https://glacierpeakholistics.com/collections/stress-scan-products

    The results showed us that our dogs were allergic to nearly everything we were feeding them (chicken, salmon, etc)

    That was step 1. Step 2 was finding a WHOLE FOOD diet not a processed one. Emma Lous Kitchen turkey recipe is a great example and they are very highly reviewed.

    We either order Emma lous or cook for our two Frenchies. One is 12 years old and you’d think he’s 5. The main ingredients are turkey (from a butcher so there is not added sodium), alkaline vegetables such as broccoli, collard greens, carrots), apple and quinoa.

    We also grind egg shells for their calcium. It’s very important dogs get a calcium supplement if home cooking. Half egg shell a day for one 25 lb dog.

    Also a good probiotic is key.

    We cook for two weeks at a time and freeze.

    If you don’t have time to cook then I suggest Emma Lous Kitchen.

    Most processed dog foods are so bad for our furry family members and especially for our sensitive Frenchies. Also many Frenchies can’t tolerate a raw diet, therefore a fresh/frozen whole food diet is hands down the best option.

    If you want more info on my recipe I’m happy to share.

    #145583

    In reply to: New to raw feeding


    Chipy
    Member

    Feeding home-prepared meals can certainly be less expensive than commercial raw diets. You just need to find a good source for raw ingredients. I heard that My Pet Carnivore is good, but I only have experience ordering from Hare Today. They offer a great variety of quality meat. I’m lucky to have a good butcher in town and love preparing my pup’s meals at home. It is so great to know what goes in there. I was developing anxiety over choosing the right commercial raw brand. Some uses radiation, some uses HPP, some are fermented and they all claim they are the best. Most of them are still full of synthetic ingredients like synthetic vitamin and mineral premixes. I have lost trust in the pet food industry over the years, and prefer to be in control of the ingredients I offer to feed my fur baby. Feeding home-made raw or preparing home-cooked meals is so much easier than many people would think. The basics I have learned from a quick Natural Diet Course https://peterdobias.com/pages/course-rawdiet and also ordered some nutrition books and did a lot of online research. It takes some time and patience to get used to preparing meals at home, but it is so worth the effort. Good luck on this new and exciting journey! 🙂

    #145427

    Chipy
    Member

    Blood testing results from raw fed dogs will often differ from those of their kibble fed counterparts. I only learned this after switching from kibble to raw. Dogs fed raw food naturally have higher enzymatic activity. The majority of vets don’t advocate raw feeding and much of the reason for this is they don’t understand much about it. The result is that many vets are alarmed when the raw fed dog’s blood values are skewed and this can result in costly and unnecessary follow up care. The reference range of normal values varies from lab to lab and the units from country to country. There are so many benefits to feeding a raw diet, I would highly recommend avoiding kibble that is so often full of toxins. I wish I had started feeding raw sooner. My little guy was almost 5 y/o when we switched him to raw from high-end kibble (mixed with canned food). His joint issues and overall health improved within months. I started detoxing his liver twice annually following Dr. Peter Dobias’ liver detox protocol for dogs and now his ALT levels are perfect every year. 🙂
    https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014997-treating-and-preventing-liver-disease-naturally

    #145333

    Patricia A
    Member

    Melissa I’m praying for you and CJ. You’re truly doing everything you can for him and most people wouldn’t because of the time, exhaustion of taking care of a dog that has these health problems and the expense. Thank goodness he ended up with you. My mom had a little Yorkie who had three owners before she got him. She would have tremors/seizures, never ate good and after numerous tests vets never did give reason or diagnosis. So I always remind her Maggie ended up with her to give her the best life possible.
    I read that raw helped with the IBD. I guess because it wouldn’t have ANYTHING in it that the dog could be sensitive too since it’s just natural and not hidden chemicals or things which irritate stomach. I wish that was the answer for CJ since that would be easy.
    TRY not to stress because I KNOW dogs feels this. Positive thinking, a lot of petting and if you’re able walks I read is very good for people even with IBD. also below will help a little.
    https://kohapet.com/the-best-food-for-dogs-with-ibd
    hydrated DIET
    https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet/dp/33949?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Royal%20Canin%20Veterinary%20Diet&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrM2GlK6Z5AIVBv_jBx2M6gd6EAQYASABEgK74_D_BwE

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Patricia A.
    #145288

    Melissa D
    Member

    Hi Patricia A
    Yes C J has the lymphoplasmacytic gastritis and heliobacter as stated on his biopsy results, my vet is starting him on a 3 week course of medications and then we are doing a second food trial of the Hill’s Science Diet Z/D for sensitive tummy etc, then I touch base with the vet again after about 6 weeks to see if he needs to start the steroids which the vet mentioned to me during our phone call. C J’s biopsy results also came back showing he has a thickening of his intestines and that’s why they are saying IBD, but to do another food trial with the Z/D food then I feel they are still guessing, but then I have read on the internet that diagnosing true IBD is kind of trial and error until the dog shows signs of getting better with different foods and what a pain this is going to be, I also read that some dogs do well on raw food diets for IBD, but my boy has been on the raw food since he was a puppy and its not been helping him, also yogurt was not helping as I was reading that it does help, but it looks like my boy is an exception to the rule, but I know he wouldn’t be the only one, so that’s why I am slightly confused after reading these things on the internet, I sat back and thought…ok C J is already on this so why is he still sick and then I got to thinking, if we get his heliobacter sorted first, then maybe he won’t be so bad but then the thickening of his intestines is another issue that can’t be reversed but can be managed…hopefully. I feel I maybe should not have gone to ask Dr Google…because all it’s done has thrown me into heaps of doubt on what the true issue is, regardless of what the vet/s have said because I kind of feel they too are still clutching at straws on how to treat effectively, so if my vet is in doubt then that places me in doubt, after talking with the vet about the next move, she said to me, to try the Z/D dry and or tin food for my C J and then we check in 6 weeks or so to see how he’s doing and if needed we start steroids, so basically she’s not even sure this Z/D food is going to work, can it really be this hard ?? I am just about ready to give up, my finances and emotions are stretched beyond belief and I just want to have a healthy dog, gosh I can’t even find a food list online of what to cook for a dog with IBD, because I would prefer to cook all his meals myself as they will be more affordable, so if anyone knows where I can find a food list or cook book for homemade food for your dog that has IBD then I will be ever grateful. Thank you Patricia for all your info supplied in the previous message, I have read and re-read it all a few times, and some of it is making sense but some of it also going straight over my head, I think my mind is just in overdrive at the moment but I will go back and read it as many times as necessary until I understand it all. Keep in touch and I will let you know how C J tolerates this new Z/D food etc.

    #145261

    Patricia A
    Member

    Melissa I’m confused with your vet after all the testing and specifically a biopsy that he can’t give a definitive diagnosis of IBD? Ask for a copy of the test results also. Did he mention CJ needing to go on any meds such as steroids? Which food did the vet suggest Melissa?

    Before you switch the food he suggests, try one more time of the just WHITE meat boiled chicken and white rice. NO VEGGIES at all just a few days and see how he does. I don’t believe in prescription diets myself for reasons here: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/worlds-biggest-dog-food-scam/
    I’m curious of which food he will suggest now. Please keep me updated.
    Once IBD has been diagnosed, Wakshlag favors gradually switching a dog’s diet, if the main proteins have been common ones such as beef, chicken or lamb. The dog would be then fed a novel protein or hydrolyzed diet.
    Yogurt is high in calcium and protein. It also can act as a probiotic, which can be good for the digestive system. If you are going to feed your dog yogurt, it should be plain and free of any added sweeteners, both natural and artificial.

    Diet vs. Medicine

    IBD cannot be cured and is often treated with antibiotics or other medicines designed to stop the gastrointestinal immune system from overproducing antigens. Most vets, however, prefer to manage the condition through diet and may prescribe a commercially made food or give you recipes to home-cook your dog’s food. Each dog is different and some will require a specific diet with only a few ingredients. Consult your vet before feeding your dog any homemade meals designed to manage his IBD.

    A Proper Balance

    Cooked meals for dogs suffering from IBD need to contain a good mix of proteins, fats and fiber. Foods rich in omega-3 fatty acids, such as fish and flaxseed oil, may help decrease intestinal inflammation and thus ease symptoms. Fresh meat or dairy protein sources, such as cheese, rabbit, venison and duck contain proteins that are broken down into more digestible nutrients.

    Fiber and Fat

    While some dogs with IBD do better when they eat more fiber, others do better when fiber is reduced. Vets often recommend fiber supplementation when IBD affects the colon, as fiber improves stool consistency and reduces the growth of harmful bacteria in the colon. Typically, high fiber foods, such as vegetables, are lower in fat. While fiber can trigger more bowel movements, the lower fat content from higher fiber diets often reduces diarrhea in dogs with IBD.

    No People Treats

    An important part of treatment for your dog’s IBD is keeping her away from people food. That means no table scraps, no bites of your sandwich and no feeding her bits of food that happen to fall on the floor. Also, avoid giving her most commercial dog treats, such as biscuits, which can be full of fillers and ingredients that will aggravate her stomach. Natural chew toys, or rawhides, also are out, as she likely will swallow pieces that flake off while she chews.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Patricia A.
    #145254

    In reply to: No Hide Chews


    Amara H
    Member

    Rapid breaths per minute (72 breaths per minute)

    I have a two year old labradoodle that is 40 lb.
    I have been giving him Earth Animal No Hide Pork Chews (small) in the evening for over a year. I noticed every night at bedtime he would go into a labored and rapid breath rhythm. This concerned me so much that I took him into the Veternarian about it a couple of times. I videoed his rapid breathes per minute (about 72 breaths per minute) and showed it to his Veterinarian. She was concerned when she saw the video. She said it could be a heart issue, pain or some type of discomfort but we needed to get to the bottom of it because this is not normal!

    We started with an elimination diet…

    First I removed the supplements that I give him with his food every p.m., and there was no change.

    I changed his food which is high quality raw food (Small Batch) No change from that either.

    Honestly, it never occurred to me it could be these no hide bones! The very first night he didn’t have one of these bones he maintained a normal breaths per minute breath rate and fell asleep peacefully.

    That made me do a search about this product and this is how I found this site and post. I’ll be sure to advise my Veternarian about this and let everyone I know about my/his experience with this product.

    I have no idea what is in “no hides” that could cause such a reaction in him but going forward I WILL NOT give him this product again.

    #145249

    In reply to: Add Calcium to Diet


    Susan
    Member

    Hi Whiskey D,

    Please make appointment with a Holistic Vet or I contacted a Animal Nutritionist, DO NOT ADD calcium you need someone who will balance diet for your pup.
    Your dog is probably getting enough calcium if he’s eating bone in diet??

    “Excess Calcium Isn’t Good for Dogs. … Because of this, some owners feel their dog or puppy – particularly if he is a large breed – should be given extra calcium. But too much calcium can have the opposite effect: excess calcium can slow bone and cartilage development, even stunt growth.”

    Rodney Habib is studying & doing his degree, his large breed white dog “Sammy” is nilly 18yrs old, all 3 of his dogs are all feed balance raw diets… Rodney has more brains then the negative people on DFA who always post negative post about him & other people all the time..

    Do your research, join Raw feeding groups – “The Possible Canine” Catherine Lane, Dr Judy Morgan- Pup Loaf, Lew Olson – “K-9 Natural” group – Dr Laurie Coger f/b page..
    Steve Brown is really good to follow, he recommends adding { 1-2 Mussels, 1 tablespoon Salmon & a pinch of Kelp} daily to balance a dogs diet…… Tin Salmon has bones, drain water, mash bones thru the salmon & put in air tight container put in fridge look for the lowest salt/sodium % on can..

    Dr Karen Becker has a few good books with balanced raw recipes – msg her on her F/B page, she was releasing a new book last year.

    Feed healthy whole foods, veggies, fruit, “Sardines” are VERY healthy & help balance a dogs diet, also “Mussels” very healthy both foods have natural calcium, vitamins/minerals, chicken frames are nice soft bone, chicken drumsticks, turkey legs, turkey necks… look for Wholesalers who sell to the supermarkets & Butcher shops that’s what we do in Australia we buy from the wholesalers….its fresh then you freeze in sections…

    #145096

    Melissa D
    Member

    Hi Patricia
    HUGE thanks to you for supplying me with these links, I have just had a good slow look over them with my morning coffee and some of resonated with me, in the info you sent it said that some vets have diagnosed GIARDIA in dogs when in fact it could be EPI….my furry baby was diagnosed with GIARDIA when he was 12 weeks old, I am now thinking that may have been wrong. I will be getting his biopsy results this week, and if they come back showing nothing, then my vet said she want’s to open his tummy up and have a good look around, now I have this info you sent me, I would much prefer to go the less invasive test’s and get the bloods done for EPI etc and only then if they too come back normal then we can go inside the tummy for a further look, without you sending me this info to look at, I would be none the wiser, In the links you sent me I tried to click on the highlighted blue link that said their are special requirements of (how much blood the vet needs to take to do the EPI test) but it came up saying an error. I also read that some dogs with EPI do really well on the RAW food diet, my fur baby has been on the RAW food diet since he was on solid foods and he was still having all these issues, so as you can tell even my vet/s and a specialist are still scratching their heads, I am hoping this weeks results will show SOMETHING at least that way we can start treating my fur baby appropriately instead of all this guess work, its doing my head in, just last night he had his food for sensitive tummy and he threw it up over my carpet, I was not impressed but i know its not his fault, I lay blame solely with the breeders, for breeding bad stock and yes they will know about it again for the 15th time, of me trying to get throught their thick heads, that my fur baby is sick, I have never come across people who are so focused on their wallet only.
    Thanks again Patricia keep in touch and I will let you know as soon as we have the biopsy results this week, take care and have a great weekend.

    #145060

    Lisa B
    Member

    I want to share my experience with Ziwi Dog Food.
    In December of last year, we took our 15 yo Pom, Bailey, in for a dental. Her bloodwork came back perfect. Her ALT was in the low
    100’s. Our vet said anything below 200 was acceptable for her age.
    Sometime in January, I made the switch from a frozen raw food
    to Ziwi. Within a few weeks, I noticed Bailey’s appetite had
    started to decline. Unfortunately, I attributed it to her age. Bailey had been in excellent health except for early dental disease as the result
    of being in a puppy mill for her first two years. In the last few years, she began losing her hearing and then vision, but she was perfectly healthy other than these issues. Because I thought her picky eating was related to her age, I did NOT act quickly enough and take her to our vet. I mean, her bloodwork was perfect right? So for the next 2 months it was a daily struggle to find something that would appeal to Bailey’s taste. In March, I took her in for an examination. Initially,
    Our vet thought kidney failure; however, after checking kidney function he checked her liver enzymes. Her ALT was 2664!!! How in the world? I had an extremely difficult time convincing
    our vet it was not Lepto. We had absolutely no standing water anywhere on our property let alone our furkids’ fenced yard. Also, because of Bailey’s vision loss we stayed with her while she was outside. In fact, we never leave any of our 5 Poms or GSD outside without one of us. Believe me when I tell you that I tried absolutely everything to get her ALT within an acceptable range from giving her daily B12 injections to feeding through a syringe to adding Denamarin and even insisting on a prescription for prednisone to increase her appetite. She improved a little for about a month. Her next ALT was 1600 so I thought we were making some improvements, but she began declining again and this time she did not improve. She had lost about half her body weight and was so frail. I knew she was telling me it was time to let her go. That was May 1st. In June, our Bandit suddenly stopped eating. Never was there any other sign he was unwell – just a lack of appetite as with Bailey. No vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I immediately took him to our vet to have his enzymes checked and his ALT was 400!!! Our vet did an ultrasound and saw no evidence of a mass or something to explain the elevated ALT. Our vet prescribed the Hills KD which I was not in favor of so I purchased Dr Harvey’s Paradigm Superfood and went back to a low protein slightly-cooked diet. I immediately bought milk thistle and SAM-e for pets and gave him the maximum dose of milk thistle for his weight. Based on my research, the denamarin did not contain an adequate amount of milk thistle for pets whose liver was
    damaged. Within a few weeks, our Poms, Cricket and Rumor , suddenly stopped eating. I knew if Cricket EVER refused a meal something was wrong. Sure enough, they both had elevated ALT – Cricket was 183 and Rumor was 150. After much debate with our vet, I immediately stopped feeding them the Ziwi and began the same protocol as Bandit. I also stopped the Half Moon organic dog
    which are extremely high protein (as is Ziwi). Our vet added Ursodial which is bile acids. Bandit’s last liver panel was nearly perfect. His
    ALT was 140 (he is 7 and this is high-normal, but within an acceptable range. Cricket and Rumor will be re-tested next week, but I already feel confident their ALT will be an acceptable number because their appetites have returned. Oh, one last thing! We had liver panels performed on our Piper (our super-size Pom at 17lbs) GSD Sadie, and their results were perfect! How could this be? The only differences were: they were not exclusively fed the Ziwi (I halved it with the Stella & Chewy and Open Farm freeze-dried raw) and size. Our 4 Poms who had elevated ALT’s were between 6 and 11lbs and fed exclusively the Ziwi air dried. Does anyone think this is merely a coincidence? I cannot accept it as coincidence. I am trying to get them back to a home-prepared raw (or slightly cooked) diet. I
    had them all on a raw diet for about 7 months a few years ago, and
    they loved it. My only concern at that time was my concern that I wasn’t adding the correct amount of necessary vitamins and minerals for each one of them, but I recently learned Dr Karen Becker (an holistic veterinarian) has formulated a meal mixer that contains everything necessary to ensure my home-prepared diet is nutritionally balanced. If anyone is interested, you can find the meal mix available at Mercola Healthy Pets website.


    Susan
    Member

    Hi Carla,
    Gee he should still be with his mum until 10-12 weeks old, take him back to his mum, if you can not afford to see vets, medications, expensive dog food – raw is best or a balanced cooked diet, I’d give him back before you get attached to him…
    Does dog have high Temp?? take to vet it could be Parvo.. I’d give him back to person you get him from…

    #144871

    In reply to: Add Calcium to Diet


    anonymous
    Member

    Please consult a veterinarian (in real life not the internet) asap for a checkup for your puppy and recommendations.
    Please stop listening to quacks.

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/05/whos-behind-the-the-truth-about-pet-cancer/ excerpt below, click on link for complete article and comments.
    Rodney Habib
    Mr. Habib is a professional activist and well on his way to becoming the Mike Adams or Joe Mercola of animal health. He would likely view that as a compliment, but clearly it is not. While it is possible to admire Mr. Habib’s passion and success as a manipulator of the media, unfortunately most of what he is selling is pseudoscientific nonsense. He skillfully uses social media to instill fear in pet owners; fear of pet food, vaccines, and virtually anything mainstream veterinary medicine recommends. And despite absolutely no training or expertise in science, he confidently tells the public that vets and scientists have it all wrong, and they should listen to his advice instead.
    This advice consists of the usual evidence-free arguments for raw food, ketogenic diets, dietary supplements, herbal remedies, the dangers of vaccination, and many of the usual unproven or bogus ideas promoted in this series. Mr. Habib is one of the main architects of this project, along with Mr. Bollinger and Dr. Becker. If ever there was a group of people better at public relations than at health science, it is this trio.

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/

    #144870

    In reply to: Add Calcium to Diet


    crazy4cats
    Member

    What breed is your pup? How big will it get?

    Feeding a large breed puppy the correct amount of calcium is of the utmost importance while they are growing. You only get one shot at those growing bones and joints, it has to be right! They are very prone to hip dysplasia and elbow issues if not fed correctly.

    For either small or large breed puppy, I would definitely get in touch with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist to help you formulate a raw food. There are some that will work with you.

    Rodney Habib does not have the credentials to formulate a complete and balanced diet. Especially, for a large breed puppy.

    #144866

    Whiskey D
    Member

    Hi,

    New dog owner and raw feeder. I followed rodney habib’s guide (youtube – https://youtu.be/7P85BMCCboI) on how to make a balanced meal, but I fear our dog is not getting enough calcium because he has started to occasionally limp. This might be from a calcium deficiency.

    He said not to put egg shells for puppies in the mix. My question is, I can not find raw meaty bones in my super markets (except for chicken drumsticks). How much calcium powder should I add to the diet so he has his calcium intake.

    The puppy is 3 months old currently.


    Jaimie K
    Member

    Patricia A – I was very confused too. I was a veterinary technician for many years but the vet I was seeing for this issue didn’t know that. I questioned the antibiotic when the results were negative and they kind of blew me off with a generic answer. I do have a better vet now, but we haven’t started tackling the GI issues since for the moment we’re ok.

    I’m inclined to agree it was the kibble causing the issues. However the original incident came a day after she ate garlicky pizza crust, pasta, hot dogs, salami, and who knows what other human food, plus tons of dog treats, bones/chews, and a raw dog food she had never had before – all while staying with my dad and step-mom while I was out of town. I wondered if that bad weekend didn’t cause some pancreatitis.

    She has been on the prescription diet (Hills i/d) for at least 4 months and we have not had any other issues. I’m not a fan of the prescription diets AT ALL, and don’t want her on it long term, but have resigned to leave her on this diet for 6 months as a “reset”. I have tried to wean her off a few times with no luck. I will definitely look into the Stella & Chewy’s – I’ve heard all positive things.

    #144664

    In reply to: New to raw feeding


    anonymous
    Member

    I used to get horrible headaches (migraines)

    They are in remission for over 2 years. I think there is a connection with diet. If you can find the right doctor he will support your dietary decisions.

    We will have to agree to disagree about the raw diet for dogs though. 🙂

    #144663

    In reply to: New to raw feeding


    D
    Member

    To me, it sounds like the raw food diet was a total disaster for your dogs and I don’t blame you for not wanting to going back. However, my results have been the complete opposite. Anal glands did not need to be expressed, no more need for allergy medication for the itching and no more topical sprays for his hot spots after transitioning to raw food.

    Some breeds may have a better time handling the diet than others.

    Anyway, I think we can both agree we won’t be changing either of our minds. Our journey’s just happened to take us on a different path.

    #144644

    In reply to: New to raw feeding


    D
    Member

    That does not mean you shouldn’t do your own educated research.
    Go ahead and ask your vet a simple request to go over all of the ingredients they put into your dog kibble and have them explain to you each and every ingredient and its purpose and benefits. Since they are so much wiser than you it shouldn’t be a difficult request to ask. You must love the Yellow 6, Yellow 5, Red 40, Blue 2, genetically modified organisms, pesticides and all the other artificial flavorings and preservatives they add into it. It’s not like dog food has ever been recalled before…Nor have vets ever been wrong on anything before…

    Up here in Alaska our sled dogs don’t seem to mind eating raw, something of which they have been down for hundred plus years. And our family and friends pets all seem to live a long healthy life.
    It wasn’t until the early 1950’s that dogs started to eat kibble. I wonder what they were eating before that?? Back then you would hardly ever hear of a dog having cancer, seizures, allergies, or the multitude of skin problems you see today.

    There is a plethora of great articles and books out there regarding the history of dogs and their diets, especially feeding raw.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  D.
    #143982

    Patricia A
    Member

    Christine is it a possibility that low blood sugar is contributing to seizure activity since he eats only once a day and very little? Maybe some lean boiled hamburger topper with kibble and string beans, carrots will help with his appetite and assure he gets enough animal protein. I boil chicken and add a tiny bit of the water to kibble also. Also maybe below article is of help. Common causes of seizures are flea/tick meds even when discontinued can result in ongoing seizures in some dogs as well as heart worm meds and vaccinations.
    Diet and Epilepsy Link

    Environmental control is a significant element in gaining better management of your dog’s seizures. Start with what goes into him. Feeding a home-prepared diet, cooked or raw, can make all the difference for some dogs. Though there are virtually no studies to determine whether there is a relationship between diet and seizure activity, many holistic veterinarians report anecdotal evidence that a top-quality home-prepared diet can play a large part in management of seizures.

    Allergy testing for grain and protein sensitivities is another tool you can use to identify and remove any potential seizure triggers.

    Dr. Kelleher also advocates the use of taurine supplementation for epileptic dogs at a dose of 250 milligrams per 40 pounds body weight daily. Taurine supplementation is especially important for dogs who eat commercial and grain-based diets. This amino acid is found in the central nervous system and skeletal muscle and is concentrated in the brain and heart. It’s unknown whether that has anything to do with the fact that taurine supplementation can reduce seizure activity, especially in those dogs experiencing tremors or noise triggered seizures. Discuss this or any other supplement with your dog’s veterinarian.

    If feeding a home-prepared diet isn’t possible, find the highest-quality commercial dog food. Grains in the diet, including treats, should be kept to a minimum.

    Keep in mind that many commercial dog foods include rosemary extract and sage, both of which are known to be seizure triggers in some sensitive dogs. Processed treats like rawhide chews and pigs ears should also be avoided with epileptics. Sharing human food containing MSG or cured products like hot dogs and luncheon meats is also not recommended. Many human takeout foods, instant, ready made, and convenience foods also contain chemical ingredients that can be adverse to the health of a seizure-prone dog. Cleaning up your dog’s diet is good incentive to do the same with your own.

    Frequent, small meals are helpful in managing epilepsy, as keeping the blood sugar stabilized seems to help. Hypoglycemia can contribute to seizure activity, especially in smaller breeds where the dog’s digestive tract and his meals are proportionately smaller. Grain products are especially suspect in animals who have seizures regularly. Feeding frequent, small meals is also helpful for coping with the increased hunger experienced by dogs who are given phenobarbital. Snacks such as fresh or steamed vegetables or fruit pieces are great low calorie treats that can keep your dog satisfied and increase his seizure threshold.

    Other Canine Epilepsy Triggers

    Despite the changes in recommended vaccine protocols recommended by most of the major university-based veterinary medical schools, many veterinarians continue to recommend annual vaccinations for their patients. In a seizure-prone dog, a vaccine booster can trigger seizure activity for at least 30 days. This is one reason that Dr. Dodds recommends avoiding routine vaccination for canine epileptics.

    Many owners of epileptic dogs ask their veterinarians to test their dogs’ vaccine titer levels instead, to ensure the animals have adequate antibodies to protect them from disease. If the results indicate a dog does not have adequate immune protection for a particular disease, the appropriate vaccination can be administered individually, rather than in a “5 in 1” vaccine combination.

    Regular rabies vaccines are required in each state by law. These vaccines can be especially risky for epileptics; owners of epileptic dogs have lots of anecdotal evidence of this. Check with your local municipality to see if proof of adequate vaccine titer test results are acceptable in place of vaccinating an epileptic dog annually . Many towns and cities will accept documented titer tests as proof of vaccination.

    Since exposure to many chemicals can trigger seizures in sensitive dogs, it should not come as a surprise that many heartworm and flea preventative treatments that are systemically administered can be disastrous for many epileptic dogs. While elimination of these treatments is not always possible, care must be taken with a seizure-prone dog when preventing heartworm infestation. Several of the most popular heartworm preventatives actually list tremors or convulsions as rare side effects, and can be contraindicated with a dog that is given daily phenobarbital.

    Flea products containing insect growth regulator can cause twitching and muscle weakness when an animal is overexposed. Keep in mind these cautions are given for normal canine populations. An epileptic is commonly more sensitive to these products and great care must be taken when protecting them from heartworm and flea infestation.


    Patricia A
    Member

    Joanne true about affordability is a big reason for feeding kibble especially to larger dogs. But I can see no reason why kibble can’t be supplemented with some whole meat food.I’ve posted this so many times I’m sick of myself writing it. How hard or costly is it to buy a little extra chicken breasts or lean beef etc. and add at times to a little less kibble? I have small dogs so the freeze dried such as Primal isn’t breaking the bank but I can understand it would be very costly for larger dogs. The raw is less costly though and doesn’t contain peas, potatoes etc.
    People looking for a healthy diet for their dog will never find it in any kibble. It’s like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.


    Adrianne L
    Member

    Hi, when we got our puppy, she was on a raw diet. We decided to continue that, and also introduce kibble. I didn’t like the idea of feeding my pup raw food so I decided to explore other options so I can slowly phase out raw food. Decided to try The Honest Kitchen when I heard about it. The shop owner recommended Embark for puppies as it’s highest on the protein scale for their product range. She loves it! But overtime, we noticed she started playing and eating her poop. She’ll even bring it to her bed to eat. We thought it was a behavioural change or a phase initially. Then we spoke to a trainer who suggested it could be a diet issue. So we did the elimination method, and once we stopped feeding her THK, she left her poop alone. Anyone else faces this issue/ knows what’s the issue? I’m just wondering if THK doesn’t give her the required nutrients she needs resulting in her eating her poop, or THK is so tasty that even after pooping she wants a second go at it. I still have about 3lbs left of it don’t know what to do with it.

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