[Rose B]

Hi there!
My puppy Caesar is a English Mastiff.
He’s currently 37lbs really fit for a puppy
He’s got show dog lineage, and a healthy background.
I brought him home at 10 weeks, but he has been experiencing soft stools to diarrhoea
And He did have blood/mucus in it once (gone thankgod)

Anyways so at 10 weeks (he’s now 12)
he’s symptoms began, brought him to the vets 3 times, since then.
every single time, vitals are all good, no lethargy or temperament issues.
he acts like a completely normal healthy pup.
The vets didn’t want me changing his diet, because that might make the issue worse.
But they prescribed antibiotics; for me to sprinkle on his food.
low and behold (stools harden) soft to hard.
But the second I lower the dosage of antibiotics in his food, the runnier/softer his stools get.
But i really don’t want him staying on antibiotics because I’ve been hearing that it can further trash the dogs immune system. no thanks

– I never changed his diet (eating the same food his breeder was feeding him)
– He’s vitals are all swell
– Only thing is he was wormed, a week late; but when i went to the vet, (11 weeks) he’s stools did harden for a day or two. (Thats when the blood disappeared)
so i’m assuming its worms/or some bacteria in his gut…
– He has no other symptoms besides diarrhoea and soft stools.
– Btw we have a backyard and Ive caught him eating more sticks then I’d like to admit.

So my questions are:
– He’s being treated for worms, how long until they’d actually leave his system.
– Would a diet change help (he eats BlackHawk lamb and rice ‘adult’) now no matter what anyone says im not feeding him any puppy food of any kind ‘giant/large breed’ or not.
– whats a possible replacement for antibiotics/ and or how long should I continue on it.
– Anyone experience similar experience; please calm my anxiety.
All in All he’s a puppy, and he’s putting everything in his mouth, whether I like it on not.
I’ll keep updating my vet, and praying for it stop!

[anonymous]

Quote “– whats a possible replacement for antibiotics/ and or how long should I continue on it”. Unquote

None that I am aware of. Antibiotics need to be given as prescribed, dosage, times and length of time (start and stop date) or they won’t be effective.

I hope that you will direct your questions to the veterinarian that is treating your dog.

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
you in Australia hello,

I would NOT FEED “Black Hawk” change it ASAP,
Black Hawk has been sold 4 times now & is no longer a family owned business it owned by Marster Pet Food in NZ & its made at the Dubbo Plant where “The Real Pet Food Company” makes all their bad cheap pet foods, The Real Pet food Company makes Baxters Woolworths generic brand, Baxter has been killing dogs since 2017 – 2018 last sick dog was 3 weeks ago Baxter wet can food go onto “The Australian Pet Reviews” site & his Face Book page, follow him & he tells us when Pet Food companies are getting heaps of complaints dying & sick dogs, look up Black Hawk on the “Australian Pet Food Reviews” site read all the people complaints, even Ivory Coat was sold Chinese bought 2017 Ivory Coat no longer family owned & its also made at the Dubbo Plant now…
Change his food this vet should of put your pup either on a vet diet or another brand dog food that’s the first thing you do when a dog keeps having diarrhea…

He shouldnt be on antibiotic for too long, have you tried “Protexin” yellow label probiotic Powder or I buy the “Yakult” pink Probiotic drink sold at Coles or Woolworths you get a 5 pack they’re in the fridge section, give your dog 1/2 a Yakult a day inbeween feeds, as he grows give him 1 yakult daily inbetween meals..
Probiotics are best taken on empty stomach..

Have a look at the Prime SKD rolls sold at Pet Barn in fridge section, there’s Crocodile & Tapioca, Kangaroo & Pumkin or Kangaroo & Potato..
Have you tried a raw or cooked diet & use “NAS Digestavite Plus Powder” to balance the dogs diet? instead of dry dog food?
https://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/product/digestavite-plus/

I DO NOT buy any Australian made pet foods NO more our Pet Food Companies are self regulated so anyone in Australia can make a pet food & do what they want, NO Recalls nothing, but when a pet food comes from Overseas, USA these Pet Food company MUST obey really strict laws, they have to prove where their meats are being sourced from etc to come into our country..but when a pet food is made in Australia these Australian Pet Food Companies do not need to do anything 🙁
We are trying to change our laws after over 100 dogs died after eating Advance Dermocare Nov 2017 – April 2018, there’s an senate inquiry about Australian pet foods at the moment..
Here’s a video, Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals
after we had blue red pink plastic thru Applaws dog & cat food…. after you watch this you wont want to feed any dry pet foods..
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958

Look at “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Grain Free has potato Potato & Sweet potato firms the poo or “Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Adult” has grains only sold Pet Barn store or Pet Barn Online store, shop online its cheaper & press Click & Collect & pick up from your nearest Pet Barn store, its cheaper to shop Pet Barns online store then buy Wellness from the pet barn store, these always sales online, join Pet Barns “Friends for Life” & get $10 off first order, free bath, free vet visit etc

If you want to fed a grain dry kibble then look at
“Eagle Pack” Large/Gaint Breed formula Eagle Pack is sold online Bomarang Pet Foods http://www.boomerangpetfood.com.au/eagle-pack-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-13-6kg/

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult, is formulated for large breed “stomach & bowel”, not to cause bloat, it has easy to digest ingredients, it’s high in Protein-34%, Low/med fat-13%, low kcals 345 per cup…
Wellness also has Probiotics to help stop diarrhea then reduce antibiotics after he is eating the Wellness Core Large Breed formula for 2 weeks.

[crazy4cats]

I do not see any mention of a fecal test. Has his poop been tested for parasites! Specifically Giardia? My dogs had that same issue when I got them. I kept changing foods thinking that was the problem. Turns out they had giardia which can cause intermittent loose stools and diarrhea.

It took several rounds of metronidazole and panacur c to get rid of it.

[pitlove]

You keep saying “antibiotic on his food”. I think you mean probiotic. A probiotic is perfectly safe for long term use.

Also why are you so against using a large breed puppy food?

“– Would a diet change help (he eats BlackHawk lamb and rice ‘adult’) now no matter what anyone says im not feeding him any puppy food of any kind ‘giant/large breed’ or not.”

^This is a poor attitude to have and will only cause problems for your dog in the future.

[joanne l]

If it is probiotics that is fine everyday. Look at the label and see if it says that if not I would ask the vet about these antibiotics I don’t like it either. I don’t know what to say about the food, I don’t want to lead you in the wrong direction. But maybe he is not digested the food well. If you want to keep lamb and rice there are a few brands Holistic select, blackwood, natures variety has a lamb and oatmeal. I hope everything turns out well.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[2doodlemom]

I am afraid I agree with others that you should definately try others food and definatelt use a giant breed puppy food as it’s so important for their growth, there are a lot of info on this forum about that.

My giant breed puppy has the same soft stools problems from 6 months to 10 months old. We did a stool test and did not find anything abnormal. So the Vet put him on the Hill Hills Science Diet ID prescription diet. His stools formed up right away. But I did not want to stay on this food forever.so we tried others food, and yes his stools got soft again. But slowly he is better now at 11 months old. He did not do well on Fromm Gold Large Puppy. But did ok with zholistic Select and Nulo, and Nutro with less ingredients. He also gets a probiotic, fortuflora each morning.

Hope this helps.

[Susan]

Hi Rose,

If you want to continue feeding an Australian made pet food, then have a look at

“Stay Loyal”
Formulated For Slow… Steady… Optimal Growth, Not Maximal Growth!
https://stayloyal.com.au/large-breed-puppy-grain-free-dog-food.html

“Meals For Mutts”
https://www.mealsformutts.com.au/products/

“LifeWise”

Kangaroo

“Vetalogia”
Vetalogica Naturals Grain Free Dog Food

“Frontier Pets” Freeze Dried, Free Range, Organic, human grade dehydrated raw.
https://frontierpets.com.au/

“Proudi”
http://www.proudi.com/

[Rose B]

Thank you Susan~
I’ll definitely try changing his diet since you suggested it. First I’ll check with my vet, then i’ll check out these other kibbles. Also I am transferring Caesar to raw; just once his stools firm up. That’s truly my goal. Im 100% Pro raw.

And to certain commenters who thought my hatred with giant puppies foods is a poor choice. It really isn’t, my breeder who’s been breeding for 46 years; and the only cases he’s had a dog of his experience hip-dysplasia, is when (although with every good intent) a owner has chosen to go that route, Giant puppies just really can’t handle the food (Royal Canine apparently is the worst). Same goes for kibble in general; his healthiest dogs eat raw. I don’t doubt their is most probably a perfect kibble out there for me (somewhere) but raw feedings for all my breeders dogs has worked successfully and more financially in his favour. (It might just be a Mastiff thing)
But All in All, i do want whats best for my dog~ so I’ll still be on the look out.

(update)
Oh and sorry I forgot to mention; when I frequented the vet, I did everything! and visited alot; got his stool sample checked-nothing.
So it must be the food! I’ve been given the okay by my vet?
how does Holistic Giant breed sound?

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
sorry about the long post i started it around 10am then kept adding to it then finally posted it 2pm lol
“Holistic Select” has change all their formula’s & have added lentils chickpeas, these Legumes up the protein % so the pet food companies add less meat proteins in their food, that’s why I always make sure there’s 2-3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredient, so my boy is getting meat proteins & not a heap of plant proteins, Legumes also up the fiber % in a dry kibble, make sure if you feed a dry dog kibble there isn’t anymore then 20% in Legumes, No Lentils/Chickpeas in the first 5 ingredients..
These are the first 5 ingredients of Holistic Select® large & giant breed dry kibble..
Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Chickpeas, Lentils, Peas, Chicken Fat,
when Patch eats Lentils he gets instant diarrhea & chickpeas cause bad wind/farts for 1 week then he’s OK. He does best on Sweet Potatoes & Potatoes kibbles & chickpeas have to be 5-6 ingredient… The Wellness Core Large Puppy formula has Potatoes, it has Lentils as 6th ingredient, your boy might be OK with Lentils?
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-puppy-large-breed-puppy
you could always try it then take it back to Pet Barn if he gets diarrhea they have a money back guarantee & say he won’t eat it now cause he had diarrhea & get the Wellness Complete Health Large breed Puppy formula, it’s Monday so Wellness is on special $109 at the moment till Wednesday midnight, you click on “Click & Collect” & pick up from a Pet Barn closest to you.
https://www.petbarn.com.au/dogs/dog-food-dry/wellness-core-large-breed-dog-food
Or Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Puppy Food – 13.6kg – $99.00
https://www.petbarn.com.au/dogs/dog-food-dry/wellness-large-breed-puppy-food-13-6kg,

I’ve been thinking of getting te Wellness Complete Health Adult formula next, it has 3 meat proteins as 1st 2nd & 3rd ingredient then Oatmeal then peas so there’s less then 20% in Legumes…Pet Barn also has offers, when you join their “Friends For Life” Loyalty program, I just got a $20 free voucher free & a free bath & a free nail clip.. so I got a 2.5kg bag of dry kibble for $2..

I just looked up Holistic Select Australia as some US pet brands ingredient list are changed to come into our country, so when you look up an American brand kibble look up their brand name & put Australia after the brand name, so your getting the Australian Ingredient list…. also when you look at pet foods online pet store some of their ingredients list are the old ingredient list & the new ingredients haven’t been updated yet…

The FDA in America has put out an warning as few large breed dogs in the US that were eating high legume dry kibble diet have ended up with DCM – heart disease..
https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/FDAInBrief/ucm613355.htm

Some dogs have died, they were very young 1-2 yrs old, they have noticed the dry diets were high in Legumes, Legumes are blocking the Taurine & the dogs aren’t absorbing any Taurine, they still dont know 100% what has gone wrong, a healthy 30 month old Rotti just died 8th August, an 1-2yr GSH has died he was given 6-8months to live & that was 2015….Maybe your better off feeding healthy grain formula until the FDA works out what went wrong, or a grain free formula that doesn’t have no more then 20% Legumes (peas), dogs didnt have these heart problems when grain free diets first came out & had Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes & Peas……
You’ll have to do research & make your own decision….
We haven’t been warned about DCM in dogs in Australia. But then again we’ve had toxic pet foods dogs have died & we still dont have any recalls, so I dont know what to think anymore.. I’ve msg our Pet Food Review man on his f/b page & he doesnt seem to think there’s a problems until we get more info, my vet said the same thing….
Golden Retrievers & Labrodors are known to get DMC not rottweilers & German Shepherd & the other large breed who are on the list… there’s a f/b page called “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” look in their “files” for “2018-09-07 Copy of Diet and Taurine.pdf” it has the list of foods & dogs that became sick & died….. The cases that are in a light Orange = DCM or CHF w/o low Taurine; diet related, dogs heart problems were diet related, where the cases in yellow aren’t diet related taht they know off??We dont have these brands dry formula’s in Australia that were involved.

Here’s the proper ingredient list to the “Eagle Pack” Giant/breed puppy formula, Phosphorus 1.00%min, Calcium 1.50%min,
http://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=82#.W58JIPZuI5t

Here’s “Wellness Complete” Health Large Breed Puppy link,
Phosphorus is 0.90% so it’s under 100%, Calcium Not Less Than 1.30%min
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/complete-health-large-breed-puppy

“Stay Loyal” Large Breed Puppy
Phosphorus is 0.70-0.90% Calcium 1.10-1.30%
https://stayloyal.com.au/large-breed-puppy-grain-free-dog-food.html

To meet the more rigid safety guidelines for large breed puppies, a dog food must contain

1.2 to 1.8% calcium

1.0 to 1.6% phosphorus

Calcium-to-phosphorus ratio 1:1 to 1.8:1

Here’s the DFA Link info above & a list of Large Breed Puppy Brands DFA recommend Eagle Pack, Wellness Core, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams & Holistic Select Giant breed formula but this list was written before the DMC scare.. Maybe the Holistic Select giant pup breed is OK or NOT OK cause the formula has been changed now, I dont know
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

They recomend to feed a large growing puppy a balanced dry large/giant breed puppy kibble till he is fully grown 18-24mnths then if you want to feed raw then start him on a raw balanced diet but there must be people who fed their large/giant breed pups a raw balanced diet, I know most Australian either feed a raw diet or they feed both raw meat, raw meaty bones & a dry kibble..

Stay Loyal is Australian if you join they send out monthly emails, they recommend to fed raw meat + raw meaty bones with their dry kibble & to fast dog 1 day a week Sunday, as it re sets the immune system, Robert & David are up to speed raising healthy large breed pups, I’ve emailed Robert Belobrajdic about Patch & his IBD & Robert emailed me back within 12hrs, Robert breeds South African Boerboels, Boerboels are very large dogs. Im pretty saw they’re raw feed aswell as their Large Breed Puppy dry food……..

[joanne l]

Holistic Select does have grain in formula’s as well give it a try. I think the giant breed is grain in. Look on their web site. Yes, the giant breed puppy food is grain in here are the first set of ingredients:
Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols),

• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[pitlove]

Rose B-

Breeders are not doctors or researchers and only can do what they believe works for them. A regular puppy formula is not meant for a giant breed puppy. This is probably what was being fed to the dog with H/D. Or it was genetic. 30-40 years ago (when your breeder started breeding) there were no appropriate puppy foods designed for large and giant breeds like Mastiffs. Now there are more than enough. Even my teacher (who graduated vet school over 30 years ago) used to tell her clients to feed adult food to giant breed pups. Now she said, she absolutely does not. Too much research to prove the harm in doing so and with all the great large and giant breed puppy foods on the market, she does not agree with that anymore.

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