gas and bulching need advice

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health gas and bulching need advice

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  • #120424 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Hi, I been feeding my dog pro plan lamb and rice for awhile with no problems. But we were not sure about chicken recipes and diarrhea so I bought chicken and rice pro plan. I wanted to switch brands, but I thought if I do try a chicken recipe in a different brand and he got loose stools I would not know if it were the brand or the chicken, that’s why I used the same brand. Anyway, I been mixing in the chicken pro plan and his stool is fine, but he has a lot of gas. Does anyone think that chicken maybe okay but not in this brand? Oh, and this one is larger kibbles which I don’t like, the lamb is a smaller kibble. I don’t know if that matters?

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  joanne l.
    #120462 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi Joanne,

    when you look at the Ingredients in the Lamb & Rice formula & then the ingredients in the new Pro Plan Chicken & rice formula are the ingredients all the same? or are some of the ingredients further up or down the ingredient list??…or is there’s a few different ingredients in this Chicken & Rice formula that arent in the Lamb & Rice formula?
    I’d say there’s another ingredient he is sensitive too cause he has eaten cooked chicken & is OK you can either take back teh Chicken & rice formula thats what I do lol so Patch can try another brand, I just say he wont eat it, Pet Shops have a Palability Guarantee money back.. then buy a new food & take maybe 2 weeks introducing the new formula…
    I stay feeding 1/2 old formula & 1/2 new formula for 5 days..

    It can take a 2-3 weeks for a dog to get use to a new kibble, my boy had bad farts for 2-3 weeks when I introduced Canidae Pure Wild dry kibble again, he had eaten this formula last year & the Canidae Pure Meadow Senior formula & same thing happened, bad farts for 2-3 weeks, he was clearing a room lol, it’s the Chickpeas they’re 5th Ingredient, he cant eat too many chickpeas & can NOT eat Lentils, as soon as I was introducing 1/2 Wellness Core & 1/2 Canidae Pure Wild the farts got worse, his poo’s were nice & firm still, it took about 2 weeks then farts were all gone & the small bag of Canidae was finished, so I bought a bag of Purina the new Pro Plan Opti Derma Adult 7+….
    I liked the OptiDerma formula cause the fat is 13%max & Kcals are 348 per Cup & its a senior formula for skin problems, the only problem is the kibble size, they are tiny, very small kibbles, good for digesting but not real good when the dog has big mouth Patch loves them…
    I’m up to 1/2 Wellness Core & 1/2 Pro Plan OptiDerma Senior & we have no farts, no bad gas so far, so this formula might be OK, fingers X Patch won’t get his acid reflux & his itchy skin subsides & I’ll see if its the Chicken in his Wellness Core formula thats made his skin allergies worse or its his Environment allergies from the trees in neigbours back yard, Patch normally does really well with his allergies thru Winter months but since moving here he’s been a mess this Winter, I also started him on Wellness Core in March cause I had run out of foods to feed him for his IBD & he was having a IBD flare so vet said look dont worry about his skin at the moment, we have to get his IBD under control & he does really well with Chicken & Turkey with his IBD/stomach but not with his paws & skin…

    He loves getting a new food & I enjoy going to pet shops with him & looking online for new dog foods.. We are getting alot of new dog foods in Australia at the moment, Im still waiting for CANIDAE’s new Grain Free PURE Ancestral, Red Meat Formula, Raw Coated Dry Dog Food, With Lamb, Goat & Wild Boar..
    BUT it has Lentils 6th ingredient 🙁 but I will still try it but VERY slowley over a 1 month period & I’ll see does he react..
    https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/
    Good-Luck

    #120465 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Thanks Susan for your advice. And the Pro Plan chicken and rice is the same ingredients as the lamb so maybe he just has to get use to the chicken. This is a weird one. His stools are okay. Should I keep going or not? Right now I am only giving him small amounts. The whole week I did 90% old and 10% new. Then I did 75% old and 25% new that’s when I seen a lot of gas. Now I know some gas happens, but he was pacing around and then let out a loud burp. So now what I did was back it up again to 90% and 10%. I don’t like the bigger kibble that is in the chicken one. The lamb one is a smaller kibble and I do agree it is better for digestion. The store said to me with some dogs when you change the protein this can happen. I noticed if I change the carbs around it doesn’t happen.

    #120471 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi again
    if you’ve tried 25% new kibble & he became unsettled burping & is having bad gas, then something isn’t agreeing with him…. Does the Chicken & Rice have bran, wheat, soybean protein? bran can cause intestinal problems, bad gas, pain etc like chickpeas & lentils do, it may have more bran then the Lamb & rice formula has but we don’t see these percentages..
    The Pro Plan Derma Sensitive skin & coat Formula I’m introducing has No wheat, No Bran, No Soy this is why I’m trying it, I wanted to try the new Pro Plan Bright Minds Senior Medium Large Breed formula but it has Wheat in it, wheat makes Patch itch & smell yeasty…
    I’d take it back & say the kibble size is way to big & he will not eat it now, I dont know what to do can I please change for something else I don’t like seeing him like this….
    Then look for another chicken or turkey formula that is a different brand & it doesn’t have many ingredients in it so there’s less ingredients to react too…
    It is wierd maybe its not the chicken it’s the fiber% Protein% or fat % is more higher in the chicken formula……
    I know the perentage they write on kibble packet isnt 100 accurate %, it can vary from 00.1 to 5%, a Purina Vet Nutritionist will have the accurate % in fiber, protein & fat for the Chicken & Rice formula & the Lamb & Rice formula, the Chicken formula might be higher in Chicken & have less rice cause chicken is a cheaper meat & the Lamb & rice formula might have more rice cause Lamb is more expensive….Does it have Bran, wheat, soybean protein? it might be higher in bran & bran can cause intestinal problems, bad gas like chickpeas & lentils do, the Pro Plan Derma Sensitive skin & coat Formula I’m introducing at the moment has No wheat, No Bran, No Soy this is why I’m trying it, I wanted to try the
    Pro Plan Bright Minds Senior Medium Large Breed formula but it has Wheat as 5th ingredient, wheat makes Patch itch like mad & smell real yeasty…

    Have you looked at “Whole Earth Farms” formula’s, WEF is made by Purina, we just got WEF & its made here in Australia by Purina, but we haven’t got the new WEF recipes, we have the old grain free & grain recipes, I dont understand this, I was told by Purina first we see how well it sells then if it sell well, we will do the new grain free & grain formula’s.. https://www.feedgoodness.com/products/recipe?title=Adult-Recipe&id=6

    #120473 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Hi Susan, matter of fact it does have wheat bran, but it is very low on the list, like the 15th ingredient. And the fat is lower on the chicken so that’s not it and the protein is the same. I am wondering the reason he may tolerate fresh chicken is b/c it is not concentrated. I say concentrated b/c it is in dry form, and maybe that’s why for him he can’t tolerate it. I can’t think of nothing else. As far as other brands here is what I tried in the past with loose stools:
    1. Wellness chicken
    2. Fromm chicken recipe
    3. holistic select chicken
    he has had also lamb and beef in these brands with no trouble, but when I tried chicken he would be upset, either loose stools or not wanting to eat his breakfast. This is strange. I think I better take it back like you said and forget using chicken recipes for awhile. And maybe later on try one more brand like you said WEF and if that don’t work than for some strange reason he can’t have chicken in dry food. The only reason why I keep trying it is b/c I kept thinking it is not the chicken it may be something else like you said, but it is seeming more clear that it is the chicken.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  joanne l.
    #120481 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Now he has diarrhea.

    #120484 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi
    I went & looked at Purina Pro Plan Savour Adult, Chicken, Lamb & Beef formula’s ingredients quickly and..
    the Lamb & Beef has Beet Pulp & has Corn Gluten Meal in the first 5 ingredients, where the Chicken formula doesnt has any Beet Pulp (which helps firm poos).
    I don’t think it is the “Chicken” cause the Lamb formula & the beef formula both have have Chicken by product as 4th & 5th ingredient..
    There has to be a missing ingredient or the way the ingredients are listed in the Chicken formula doesn’t agree with him…..
    This is weird, you could ring or email Purina & have a Vet Nutritonist call you back, it’s free & they help work out any health problems if they’re good…

    #120485 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    I can see your point, but there is one thing all these brands I have used have in common and it is chicken. In my previous post I mentioned these brands. I will call Purina like you mentioned and go from there. Thank you for your help. I don’t use the Savor I use Focus.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  joanne l.
    #120544 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Help…My dog is now vomiting and watery diarrhea.. I did stop the pro plan chicken and rice Tuesday and he is still sick. If that food upset him how long should it take to subside? I am giving him boiled beef and rice for now per the Vet said and he said I can give he pro and pre biotics to get gut in order. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

    #120546 Report Abuse

    anonymous
    Member

    Call your vet’s office, if they are closed they will tell you where to call for after hours emergencies, the nearest 24/7 veterinary clinic. He has been sick for more than 72 hours….

    Do not look for veterinary medica! advice on the internet. Not wise.

    #120556 Report Abuse

    Has your vet said anything about giardia?

    #120559 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi Joanne,
    What type of dog do you have & how old??
    It sounds like your dogs Intestinal bacteria has become unbalanced, he has too much bad bacteria now, I’s say the Purina Chicken & Rice formula has off set his gut bacteria first causing gas/farts, then diarrhea & then vomiting…. if your boy has been eating beef & rice for 2 days & is still unwell, I’d follow up & see vet again & ask for a course of Metronidazole 14-21 days, its better to get 21 days tablets, this way you give for 14 days tablets & you have 7 day tablets left if you see this happening again…You can ask your vet can he/she give about 28 Metronidazole tablets so if this does happen again, you start seeing sloppy poos then diarrhea you start tablets straight away before it gets worse…
    Metronidazole must be given with a meal every 12 hours then I reduce the dose after 7-10 days to 1 Metronidazole tablet a day with Dinner meal for another 7 days…
    Patches vet writes Patch a repeat scripts of Metronidazole (Flagyl) 200mg/21 tablets in packet… to have in the cupboard at home & if Patch starts doing sloppy poos more then 2 days, then has Diarrhea by the 3rd day I start him on the Metronidazole for 14 days…

    I’d boil potato or sweet potato instead of the rice if he is still doing diarrhea after 2 days, as boiled rice can irriate the bowel if the bowel is inflammed, Patch can eat grounded rice in dry kibbles but can’t eat cooked boiled rice when he is having diarrhea & has an inflammed bowel…also did the vet say to rest the stomach & bowel for 12 – 24hours “No Food” just fluids with Electrolytes, then start a bland diet small meals about 3-4 a day….

    One thing I did notice when I was looking up Purina Pro Plan USA the other day..
    * The Chicken & Rice Savor formula say’s
    “Guaranteed “Live Probiotics” to support digestive health, as well as prebiotic fiber for an added boost to the digestive system”
    * The Focus Lamb & Oat Meal Sensitive Stomach/skin formula says
    “Rich in antioxidants to help promote a healthy immune system”
    * The Focus Small Breed chicken say’s “Natural prebiotic fiber, sourced from wheat bran, helps promote digestive health”
    The Lamb formula’s don’t seem to say anything about “Pro” biotic boosts..

    I dont know which Purina Plan Plan formula, you are feeding?? what I could see, the Savor & Focus formula’s both have very similar ingredients but some formula’s ingredients are higher in Prebiotics or higher in Probiotics, I think this is what has set off his gut bacteria & unbalanced your boy digestive tract.. The only thing I have found that fixes this is a course the Metronidazole…

    Later when he is 100% after 3months look for a single protein dry formula, that has rice, oats, sweet potato etc not many ingredients… If you want to stay with Purina then ask the Purina Vet Nutritionist what does the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice formula you tried have more Prebiotics or more Probiotics?? then ask Nutritionist what ingredients are they using for these Pro & Prebiotics??… then avoid these ingredients..

    Have you ever fed a grain free dry kibble that has limited ingredients?? I dont think your dog has a problem with chicken, it could be a certain grain or Probiotic or Prebiotics ingredients…
    I hope he gets better very soon..

    #120587 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Thank ;you everyone for your help. The vet told me to hold up on dry food until he is better. Yesterday was day 1 with no dry food. As far as metro is concerned he had that med before and it bothers him so we can’t give it. The vet said to try fortiflora which I bought yesterday. It is Pro Plan probiotic powder that comes in packets, I heard a lot of good reviews about it so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Susan, you may be right about the imbalance gut that is what the vet also said. As of today he didn’t poop yet Thank God. I hope he recovers soon.

    #120588 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Oh, I am sorry, I have a GSD 4 years old. Also, my vet said some dogs do better with the same diet. He said not all but some dogs can develop IBS or colitis if you keep changing diets. I had A GSD before and feed him the same diet for his life and never had problems. I guess I got to learn if it is not broke don’t fix it.

    #120625 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    I just wanted to say I even stopped the lamb and rice he was on and bland diet and he is feeling better. Now I am afraid to give him back the pro plan lamb, even though he been on it for awhile. This all started when I bought the chicken and rice. Should I just get a different brand?

    #120628 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi Joanne,
    its hard to know 100% what a dog has reacted too, but since he was doing OK on Pro Plan Lamb & Rice formula, then you introduced the Chicken & Rice & all this has happened, I’d say it was the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice formula, it might of had something wrong with it?? could have been left in hot truck when being transported to pet shop or online store, the Chicken formula might have more prebiotics ingredients then the Lamb & Rice formula has & unbalanced his gut flora??…

    If your dog is OK starting a new food without introducing with the old food then just start him on another brand that has limited ingredients, with ingredients you know agree with him but try & stay away from dry foods that are higher in Prebiotic ingredients…. Still feed his beef & rice cooked meal he’s doing well on for 1 meal & the other meal feed the new dry formula..

    #120631 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Thank you for helping, I hope I can find a food that will be okay.

    #120632 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Joanne
    I just read this on Rodney Habib f/b page…
    Super Scary!
    Study reveals 93% of brands tested showed limited ingredient diets (for pets with problems) were labeled wrong!
    Of the 40 analyzed products (9 dry NPDs, 22 wet NPDs, 6 dry HPDs and 3 wet HPDs), ten presented a content that correctly matched the label, while five did not contain the declared animal species, twenty-three revealed the presence of undeclared animal species, and two had a vague label that did not allow the evaluation of its accuracy. The most frequently contaminants identified in both dry and wet pet foods were pork, chicken and turkey. The presence of undeclared animal species was higher in dry than wet pet foods; furthermore, a lower number of contaminating animal species was identified in HPDs than NPDs (4 vs 10), and a lower number of contaminated HPDs (6 out of 9, 67%) than contaminated NPDs was detected (24 out of 31, 77%). Thirteen out of 14 brands tested presented at least one mislabeled product.

    Conclusions:

    Mislabeling seems to be a widespread issue in pet foods used as elimination diets. Contamination can occur in all types of products used for the purpose, although dry NPDs are the main issue. Due to the high risk of contamination, particular attention should be given to both the selection of raw material suppliers and the production process.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

    #120721 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    I got to thinking this is more than just a chicken reaction. I think something was really wrong with the food, b/c he was very very sick….Diarrhea until it just came out water and throwing up until it just came out water. I know chicken can be a problem for him, but other brands only caused loose stools not like this. Anyway he is feeling better he is off all purina dry food right now. I am skeptical about purina right now.

    #120722 Report Abuse

    Susan
    Member

    Hi,
    Did you take the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice back for a refund?? also contact Purina & report as there might have been other dogs that were sick aswell, people normally don’t report these things & these spoiled pets foods go undetected… It’s best to report to “FDA Report a Problem” https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm182403.htm

    Have you tried “Victor” their Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula or Beef Meal & Brown Rice?..
    Victor write the Meat Protein % & Plant Protein % & Grain Protein %…

    I like “Canidae” ALS & Pure formula’s & “Wellness” Complete Health & Core formula’s, Patch seems to do well on these brands also “Eagle Pack” Lamb Meal & Brown Rice….
    I go to pet shops, so I can return the kibble if it doesn’t agree with him..

    #120727 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    I did take it back and got refunded. However, I still have the lamb and rice, but I am afraid to use that to b/c I started a new bag 3 days before he got sick so I am confused now what caused it? Either it is the chicken and rice or the new bag. Wow what a mess!!!!!!!!! I felt so sorry for him. I will report it. Do you think it was bad food too?

    #120733 Report Abuse

    anonymous
    Member

    There is a possibility that your dog’s symptoms have absolutely nothing to do with his diet.
    I would check back with your vet if symptoms continue. Diagnostic testing may be needed to get to the cause. Was lab work done? Pancreatitis ruled out?

    Hope this helps:
    http://www.vetstreet.com/care/gastroenteritis-vomiting-and-diarrhea-in-dogs-and-cats

    #120736 Report Abuse

    joanne l
    Member

    Hi Anon, I spoke to the vet and he told me to start bland diet and see how he does, which I did and the vomiting and diarrhea stopped. That’s why I was concerned about the food.

    #120737 Report Abuse

    anonymous
    Member

    If you suspect the dog food is the culprit, by all means, throw it out!
    Surely that would be cheaper than a vet visit.
    However, if the symptoms continue despite a food change, I would go back to the vet for more diagnostic testing asap and stop trying various foods.
    After all, they (dog foods) all can’t be bad.

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