[Susan]

To me the tomato pomace would be an acid, like the fruit. (As you can tell I have a lot to learn about dog food ingredients.) One of my dogs will get a gurgling sound in his stomach which makes him feel bad. I thought it was from the fruit, but now could be tomato pomace. Also, I think the fish meal/oil in dog food is a good ingredient, but they can also get an imbalance of these ingredients also causing upset stomachs. The type and origin of ingredients is also important. With my little dogs, one dauchshund mix in particular, I have to watch the fiber or she will have anal gland issues. So far organic pumpkin does the trick. Having small dogs has really been an eye opener for me as to dog nutrition.
Bottom line- I am a believer in food rotation to keep the balance. Thanks for everyone’s help!
Demon really does fit!

[A.Sandy]

Hello,
I have a great dane and I get that question all the time if my dog eats the whole house? LOL etc. So anyway just because a dog is big it does not mean they should eat so much IF they are getting fed correctly and a high quality food it does not have to be grain free exactly but just a very good quality. I feed 5 cups a day divided into 2 meals and add toppers every now and then like beef lung, canned Merrick, or Spring Naturals. I feed VICTOR high performance with glucosamine and chondroitin. But everything depends on your pups energy level of course my dog is highly active and is very fit lean but very muscular kind of like a racing dog but that’s me. And I go through one bag a month. since yours are a bit older than mine you should try to feed according to energy level of each. A proper weight is when a dog has a defined tuck (underbelly) and palpable ribs still slightly visible with a layer of fat that covers ribs and visually from the top of the dog it should be like an hour glass but more like a thin sausage with a defined waist. And for the puppies that is completely different, they get larger portions because they are still growing. So get a food that is for all life stages that isn’t too expensive and it should last longer if fed properly for each dog. Try adding canned pumpkin to help them get full as well has a lot of good benefits (fiber, beta- carotene, vitamin A and a lot more).

-Ana
Pet nutrition expert/advisor
pupcatnutrition.com
@pupcatfacts

[crazy4cats]

In regards to your question about Northwest Naturals, it is a raw frozen food that comes in different forms. I use the beef nuggets as well as their fruit and veggie nuggets as toppers right now. They sell them at our local feed store along with Primal and Nature’s Variety frozen raw foods. Northwest is the cheapest of the three. I feel that these add fiber as well as antioxidants to their kibble. As I said before I’m not sure which part of my new equation is helping the most as I have switched several times. Again, I’m using Victor G/F kibble along with a little digestive enzymes, Gastriplex, and probiotic chews. I hope to gradually decrease the supplements, but right now I’m so ecstatic about their poops, (I know, weird, huh?) that I’m not going to change too much for a while.
Have you checked out dogaware dot com yet? They have so much information on that site about digestive disorders. I also think that they may have some homemade diet recipes for you as well.
Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Pumpkin making the stools softer may mean that she needs a food that is lower in fiber.

[Wildcat_1]

Hi all
I
have been reading this topic and the dogfoodadvisor reviews with great interest as I am about to welcome home a new GSD pup. I want to start on a higher quality food than I used in past (Blue Buffalo) and this current pup supposedly is on Eukanuba large breed puppy.

Hound Dog Mom did some great work and without her spreadsheet this would seem like an even more impossible task 🙂 I also read with interest the threads about calcium levels and was about to pull the trigger on Orijen Large Breed Puppy until I saw the potential issues there with calcium. So, with that said I narrowed it down to Annamaet as the one I want to try, specifically Salcha.

Once i looked into local availability I found a company producing something with the same nutritionalist as Annamaet and thought I might give that a try.

This particular company has a couple of products one of which is a grain inclusive puppy specific (28% protein min, 17% fat min, 3.5% fiber, 1.16% calcium dry) specific, the next is an all stages grain free (turkey, chicken, catfish) which is 29% protein, 14% fat 3.5% fiber 1.49% calcium or they have a grain free duck and bison which is 30% protein, 16% fat, 4% fiber.

The questions I have are:

1) Grain free or grain inclusive for puppies ?

2) If grain free as puppy I assume there are still grain free solutions for when they get older (needing leaner food etc) ?

3) Better to go with puppy or all stage food in general ?

Thanks so much all

WC

[theBCnut]

Dogs stomachs are naturally more acidic than ours and they have problems when their stomach is not acidid enough. Citrus isn’t nearly acidic enough, but it does have a particular set of antioxidants as well as vitamins. But depending on how the citrus is listed on the label, it may actually be waste from the juice industry and be nothing more than a source of fiber. BTW, mangoes and apples are not citrus, but are good in small amounts for the same reasons.

[RescueDaneMom]

I have a Great Dane (155 lbs). When I was feeding him grain-free kibble, I fed Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (very low fiber), Annamaet Grain Free, Go! Fit & Free (by Petcurean), and Acana Regionals (grain-free). I also have a rottweiler in the house (my brother’s dog). The rottie has done well on Horizon Legacy, Horizon Pulsar, Fromm Adult Gold, Acana Regionals, and Nutrisource Adult Chicken & Rice.

Fiber could be the culprit. The rottie is very sensitive to fiber in his food. Too much fiber makes him poop his brains out too. You could try the Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. It has 2.5% fiber which I think is pretty low for kibble. Also, not all dogs do well on “5 star” foods. It really depends on the dog. I wouldn’t give up on grain-free foods just yet. I would try another brand like Earthborn or Nutrisource.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[theBCnut]

My dogs’ poop was much smaller after switching to grain free, but I use low fiber grain free foods. Fiber levels make a huge difference. Try a different food if the one you are using doesn’t seem to be working for you.

[OhBichonPlease]

Our rescued Bichon went from going once usually, sometimes twice a day [sizable pile, lighter brown and a bit floppy sometimes] on a low-quality corn based kibble to pooping 2-3 times a day [mostly dark brown, harder/more solid, slimmer and well-formed] on Wellness Core. We spoiled her a bit at first and she gained three pounds during her first month or two with us. She lost that weight easily when we switched to a high quality grain free kibble and nicer dog treats crumbled into tiny pieces. As far as bowel movements during the transition and continuing now, most of the time it is easy out, but sometimes she squat-walks for a minute or two until she feels like everything has passed. She recently went on a hunger strike [and lost a half pound in about a week] and didn’t eat kibble for a week straight and hardly touched treats, human food or stinky, delicious wet food until after giving her some Pepcids. [I created a topic about doggie heartburn in another section on this forum and am curious about other people’s experiences with food refusal due to heartburn or indigestion.] Things are back to normal and settling down digestion-wise, but we are interested in rotating her food and trying different brands and are starting on Dr Tim’s grain free. I am curious to see what this does to her stool volume [never a sentiment I thought I would have]. I too though stool volume would decrease due to her grain-free kibble, but put down her increased regularity to finally getting proper nutrition with quality fiber sources. During her week of not eating, I started making ice cube treats [out of necessity to preserve what was being laid down, but not consumed] made with Wellness 95% salmon and organic canned pumpkin – she loves these frozen goodies [gets 1-2 cubes most days] and I will probably continue to provide them for her for the benefits to skin & coat and digestion. I may even add a bit of yogurt as I understand that freezing doesn’t affect probiotics and I want her to have as wide a variety of helpful gut flora as possible. [As a note, she was pooping more before we started adding pumpkin to her diet. Since she has been getting her ‘salmon pops’ and eating kibble again more regularly – but never yet enthusiastically – she has continued with going 2-3 times a day and never in the morning anymore, curiously.]
Don’t get me wrong – I am happy to see stuff moving through regardless or quantity or frequency, but I read lots of posts where people discussed decreased stool volume and that has not been my personal experience either, so far.
You might also try adding canned pumpkin or frozen or fresh green beans to your dog’s food – that will provide fiber helping pull stuff through and also contributing to a feeling a fullness. It may make your dog poop even more though.
Dog treats can be a major culprit in weight gain, so you may want to switch to treating with toys/playing, smaller treats with healthier ingredients, carrot slices, bones for chewing or something like the Lickety Stik – a great liquid treat [in multiple flavors] with a roller ball dispenser [perfect for training and keeping pockets clean and smell-free]. There are hundreds of licks per bottle and it is super-low calorie – they claim only 1 calorie every 10 licks so you can still indulge your dog without extra/empty calories.

[pugmomsandy]

Look into Wellness Core Ocean, Horizon Legacy Fish, Horizon Pulsar Fish, The Honest Kitchen Zeal, Smack Pet Food Salmon, Nature’s Logic Sardine, Nutrisca Salmon, LiveFree salmon, Holistic Select Sardine, Nature’s Logic canned sardine, Nutrisca canned salmon, Hound & Gatoes canned Trout or Salmon, Great Life Grain Free Salmon. You can also use canned/pouched sardines packed in water/no salt added for human consumption, and even raw sardines or mackerel. The Honest Kitchen Zeal is low fat and has a moderate amount of fiber and you can make just a spoonful if you wanted and it tends to generate a formed stool. I’ve used it before. For other novel proteins besides fish foods, there is also Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance in goat and rabbit.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[lois]

I have a mixed breed dog that just turned 10 years old around 24 lbs. Earlier this year he starting scratching a lot, pulling his hair out, biting himself to the point of causing bleeding and scabbing. Nothing the vet did helped until I switched him to a fish based dry dog food, Taste of the Wild, which he seems to enjoy mixed with a little canned food and the itching has subsided a little to where he isn’t pulling out his hair which is kept very short. Unfortunately it’s higher in fat and lower in fiber than the weight management food he was on, Science Diet Metabolic. His stool has also changed which I think is from the lower fiber and since I’ve cut the amount due to the fat he is always hungry.

I want to keep him on a fish based dry food which I mix with a little canned food but wanted to find one that was not as high in fat and with a little more fiber. Any suggestions on which brand would fit this description? The canned food does not have to be fish since I don’t use a lot of that when I feed him. Just a spoon to give it a little wetness.

[theBCnut]

Try Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast or Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Turkey. But more important than that is adding back the probiotics that the medications killed off. A little canned pure pumpkin for a healthy fiber source may help, but in this case may not, but pumpkin is cheap so IMHO worth a try, about 1 teaspoon per 10 lbs. You can freeze the extra into ice cubes and have it on hand, for future need. Digestive enzymes may help too.

[theBCnut]

Hi kms
The enzymes will help him to get every bit of nutrition out of his food so you may notice a difference from that alone. Also the Orijen has a lot of beans, peas, lentils, which digest differently for some dogs, so even though the NVI has 1% more fiber, you may find that the stool is harder and smaller anyway. You won’t know until you try.

[InkedMarie]

Molzy, I understand what you said, LOL. We adopted a senior sheltie in January, she came to us with no teeth. No big deal, we fed The Honest Kitchen, dehydrated so no issue, right? Wrong! Turns out she constipates easily & lost weight so we had to buy a different THK product than what we have here and the canned food we already had….no can do, wrong calories/fat/fiber ratios. We just roll with it.

[S. Monique]

SCROLL TO BOTTOM FOR NUTRITION INFO

Activa is a dog food brand manufactured in El Paso, TX and sold in that area. I’m looking for a more affordable grain free dog food and according to the website their brand is comparable to high end brands. It claims it is lower in price only because it “cuts out the middle man”. Right now my 1yr old (40lb) small pit mix is on BB Wilderness.

I would appreciate a more informed person’s opinion on their grain free line. The link below directs you to their list of formulas. Click on a formula and ingredients as well as a complete nutritional analysis is provided for review.
http://www.petsbarn.com/store/#!/~/category/id=3996285&offset=0&sort=normal

(Also it would be awesome for this food line to have official review article on the website! Anyone know how I can suggest that?)

Here is direct information of the formula I’m considering. Thank you! 🙂

Activa Brand Dog Food
Grain Free Turkey & Potato Formula

Ingredients: Turkey meal, dried potatoes, potato flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, sunflower oil, salt, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid), minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, calcium carbonate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, iron amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, ethylenediamine dihydriodide), choline chloride, mixed tocopherols, taurine, rosemary extract.

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 25.0% min
Fat 14.0% min
Fiber 5.0% max
Moisture 12.0% max
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.28% min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.53% min

• This topic was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by S. Monique.
• This topic was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by S. Monique.

[pugmomsandy]

Have you tried any behavior therapy/training? Acupuncture, Tellington Touch Technique, Bach Flower Essences? You can add some fiber (ground pysillium) to his food too. Try about 1/4 teaspoon per 10 lbs. Not a full dose in the beginning though. Just try a little and see. You can also try some chia seed. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/chia-for-pets/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/flower-power-for-pets-to-the-rescue/

[Duke The Boxer]

Hey DFA community i wanted to see what you guys thought about this treat i found.
http://biostareq.com/formulas/canine/dog-star-fish-raw-food-treats
It says its made from Menhaden fish meal which ive read that supposedly arent exposed to high levels of mercury because of their depth that they live at. Only thing i saw is that it has 9.29% ash.
Serving: Per Treat
Crude Protein (min) 33.00%
Crude Fat (min) 16.7%
Crude Fiber (max) 5.85%
Moisture (max) 10.15%
Ash (max) 9.29%
They also have a liver meal dog treat for the same price with less ash. Also i might add that my dog is a puppy american bulldog boxer mix so hes gonna be a large breed and i am worried about high ash levels.

[theBCnut]

Switching to different foods is actually healthy. Try adding 1/2 teaspoon of pure canned pumpkin to her meals to see if that firms her up. She might be one of those dogs that needs a little more fiber. The pumpkin can be frozen into icecubes and stored in a ziplock in the freezer so it doesn’t go bad before you need it.

Also, if one of her foods doesn’t have tripe in it, find a good probiotic to add to her food. Once a day for a week or so then a couple times a week.

[theBCnut]

If you think it is nothing more than a sensitive stomach then add probiotics and digestive enzymes all the time. The only way I am aware of to eliminate or positively comfirm IBD is with a biopsy, though

About rice, the amount of arsenic in it is supposed to be so small that they can easily handle it, but I would not be comfortable feeding it as a large part of my dogs diet day in and day out. But then I rotate everything, so I guess you could say I don’t feel comfortable feeding anything long term.

Add in new things for about a week at a time. You can do two things at once like a protein and a starch. If you find a limited ingredient food that you are interested in and try those ingredients first, then you will have a food you can switch to if your dog doesn’t react to any of the ingredients. I would just completely eliminate grain for a while. A lot of dogs that have issues like this seem to be intolerant of grains, whether they are gluten intolerant or something else, I can’t say, but grains seem to really inflame the intestines of a lot of dogs.

You can replace about 1/4 of the ID, the first and second days, 1/2 the third and fourth days, 3/4 the fifth and sixth days, and all the seventh day. Remember this is a short term trial so you don’t need to worry about the balance, but you can move slower if that is too fast a transition for him. You really need to have him on a food for about six weeks to see if he only has a mild reaction to something, but for stronger reactions, I can tell within 3 days usually with my dog. If he does react to something, you can go straight back to the ID and give him time for his system to settle and try again with something different.

Good luck!

[CaitlinNes]

Thanks Patty, this is very helpful advice. I’ve been doing a lot of research on dog food brands and somehow I missed all the complaints people are making about Blue until you alerted me. Yikes! My dog does not have IBD; in fact, the blood test revealed that all his levels couldn’t be more normal even during a “flare-up”. So, although he is now doing well, we still have no idea what caused the stomach upset to begin with, which is frustrating. He’s almost two years old, and has had periods like this since he was a puppy. My diagnosis is simply “sensitive stomach”, at least for now. Our favorite “quick fix” when he has trouble is to give him 5 mg. of famotidine (the active ingredient in Pepcid). Seems to relieve his trouble right away!

I looked at NutriSource and I like that it contains probiotics and glucosamine chondroitin. A lot of their products also have rice in them (which I know is a common dog food ingredient) but I have read that rice often contains arsenic. I still eat rice but only occassionally, so I wonder if the arsenic levels would build up to dangerous levels in a small dog who eats a little bit of arsenic in every meal. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I will try your suggestion of keeping him on ID for a little longer while I test his tolerance for different proteins and carbohydrates. I know he does well with chicken. I plan to try beef, turkey, lamb, sweet potatoes, and oatmeal. Any other suggestions to try? Lastly, how long do I add in one of these ingredients, two or three days? Also, how much should I add, maybe a 1/4 cup to each meal? Thanks so much for your help 🙂

[theBCnut]

PLEASE, please don’t switch him to Blue. There have been a huge number of people that have been reporting that their dogs got diarrhea on Blue and some of them have been on Blue for a while but opened a new bag and BAM.

What you should do is try adding a particular protein, like fresh chicken, to the ID for a bit and see if he reacts to it. Then try beef and so on. Do the same with the major carb sources. After you know a few things your dog can tolerate, then go looking for a new food. I hate Hill’s foods for their low quality ingredients, but they do have their place, temporarily. If you really need to get off Hill’s now, try an easy to digest food like NutriSource.

If your dog has IBD, you may have to watch fiber levels. Some IBD dogs are set off by too much fiber, some are helped. Some are helped by the addition of coconut to their diet. I’m sorry I have no definite answers for you. You are going to have to experiment and see what works for your dog.

[CaitlinNes]

My 17 lb. terrier mix has a sensitive stomach. When he was having trouble a couple of months ago, he was vomiting daily or at least several times a week, and had loose stools frequently. He was sick for about 12 weeks, and we were at the vet every other week testing for IBD and getting a range of pills to try, some of which worked, some didn’t. Finally, with trial and error and time, things are under control. I am about to switch his food from our vet recommended Hill’s Prescription Diet I.D (dry) to a higher quality food, now that he has been symptom free for a couple of months. I am not a fan of the low-quality ingredients in I.D which is the main cause for the switch, even though my dog has been doing well on the diet and enjoys the food. I plan on transitioning him to the new food over a 14 day period. I noticed that the new food (BLUE Basics Grain-Free turkey and potato recipe dry food) has twice the amount of fiber as the old food (3.5% old to 7% new), slightly higher fat (9% old to 12% new), but almost the same amount of protein (21% to 22%). Is the extra fiber in the new food going to cause him trouble, or might it actually help him?

[GSDsForever]

In my early morning reading with coffee in hand . . .

From a Cat Lane article on The Possible Canine website:

“2006 NRC Guidelines state it clearly:

Minimal requirement = 2.62 grams per kilogram BW ( to the power 0.75)

Recommended Allowance = 3.28 grams per kilogram (to the power 0.75)

Safe Upper Limit = NONE

Protein requirements are also influenced by various factors such as the dog’s overall condition, the digestibility of the food source, activity level and others. In general, when I formulate a diet for a healthy dog, I use 2 – 3 times the recommended allowance. So let’s take a look at an example. My 75 lb dog. First, take the weight in kilograms – so 34.01 kgs. Next, we take this number to the power of 0.75 – easily done on one’s computer calculator: we get the number 14.08. This is the number that will represent my dog in all calculations from here on in, his metabolic weight. To now find his “requirement” – let’s say, his RA or recommended allowance, all we need to do is multiply his number – 14.08 – by the RA – 3.28.

Here’s what we get: 46.182. That’s the recommended gram weight of total protein for the day. If I were to put this strictly into practice, I would end up with a percentage of total protein probably around 15% I am guessing. So let’s have a peek and see. I’ve formulated a diet for Daniel that contains only 46 grams of protein per day. I will also use the RA for total fat, which in this case would be 27 grams. His caloric needs are 1840 per day, so if I devise a very simple diet of brown rice, coconut oil and turkey, and stick strictly to the RA for fat and protein,I would get percentages like this:

Distribution of calories:

Protein: 11.3 %

Fat: 15.6 %

Carbohydrate: 73 %

I would also be feeding this:

1. Turkey, Dark Meat w/skin, boneless, roasted, diced 0.33 of: 1 cup, diced (46.2g)

2. Grain, Rice, Brown, ckd 7 of: 1 cup, cooked, hot (1365.0g)

3. Oil, Coconut 1 of: 1 tbsp (13.5g)

[Dogs’ reaction to dinner]:

Click on: http://thepossiblecanine.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hw_dogs_surprised.jpg?w=660”

LOL!!!

Though I kinda thought the picture says it all, she helpfully goes on to say (crusading for all doggies out there, lol):

“That’s right – SEVEN cups of brown rice, and a third of a cup of turkey. This diet technically meets the RA for protein and fat. Of course it doesn’t take into consideration fatty or amino acid levels or vitamins and minerals, this is an exercise to show how there is so much confusion between percentages and actual gram content. I often develop diets for dogs with liver issues where the protein percentage is in the midteens but the gram content is actually over the RA. Vets will want a higher level based on percentage but after we speak they understood that percentages are not the whole story. They tell us how much of a given nutrient the diet contains – RELATIVE to other energy nutrients. In actual practise, I use much – MUCH higher levels of protein and fat in my own dog’s diet as well as professional cases. It’s not in any way optimal to feed a 75 pound dog 1/3 of a cup of meat and 7 cups of rice per day. When we look at the recipe above we also will see that no less than 34 of the 46 grams of total protein come from the rice. So if we were to use more sweet potato than rice we could actually inch up the turkey a bit…. but the poor dog who has to eat so much carb and so little protein! Let’s not forget that from mouth to tail, dogs are carnivores, and derive most quality nutrients from animal sources. I have long defended the use of fiber in the canine diet, because I am not so much interested in what wolves do or don’t eat – on a practical level, at any rate – but in what type of diet is absolutely optimal for the individual dog I’m working with. This always means some fiber, although the type and amount will vary. But all that said, animal products – protein and fats – should form the mainstay of a healthy dog’s diet. This menu I used above as an example is lower than what I’d use for dogs with liver disease,by far – yet it meets the NRC Guidelines for requirements.

To start working out the amount of protein to use (we’ll get to sources later) find your dog’s protein RA first, then in a home made diet, go 2-3 times above that in grams.”

[olga]

Hi, I have a 2 year old Boston Terrier that has always had a sensitive stomach and some skin problems. We used to buy him high quality high protein food because he is very active, however it never sat well with him. Out vet told us that a GI oriented diet is better for him because he can’t process high levels of protein and he needs more fillers in his diet. I used this website to compare brands that have about 30% or less of chicken meal not by-product as the main ingredient and then some safe fillers. We currently use the Costco brand Kirkland Chicken flavored dry food with added glucosamine for his joints. It has worked great!
Regarding dogs getting tired of food, our dog does that with every brand. We usually buy a can of wet food, something organic, natural or limited ingredient and add a tablespoon to each meal. Otherwise, I add a tablespoon of greek yogurt (which helps with the farting) or pumpkin pure (high in fiber).
Otherwise, I add a little bit of water and heat it up in the microwave so its wet and warm, especially in the winter he enjoys it. In the worst case I just add a little bit of extra virgin olive oil, which makes it moist and is great for his skin and coat.

[theBCnut]

Your first recourse should be to try adding a spoonful of pure canned pumpkin to each meal. The added fiber will help firm things up. Second, you might want to start adding digestive enzymes to their kibble. Processing kills all the enzymes and some dogs don’t make enough of their own and/or their body doesn’t adjust enzyme production easily when they change foods. Third, no matter what you decide to do add some probiotics back into their system. Anytime you feed the same thing for a long time, their population of probiotics in the gut adjusts to the food supplied. If you change the food, the necessary probiotics to deal with the new food are not there, and may take some time to get re-established. Once you get your dogs settled on the new food, you should consider the next food you are going to switch them to, so they keep that healthy balance of probiotics in their gut. After a few switched, it becomes easy for a healthy dog to switch to any food at any time.

[mfulton7]

Pattyvaughn you’re right they both say fromm four star but certain flavors say grain free that’s what is confusing me. Some better brand dog foods do have higher fiber I’ve noticed it seems like the ones that have more pea ingredients are that way.

[theBCnut]

I thought Fromm Nutritionals was Fromm 4 Star Nutritionals, so I’m no help at all.

I think average fiber is about 3% in better dog foods.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by theBCnut.

[Molzy]

Hello! I’ll apologize in advance for the length of this post.

We adopted an Australian Cattle Dog (Quincy) at the end of July. He is a year-and-a-half old neutered male, and we were told he was given up due to not being housebroken. I am beginning to suspect that the real reason may have be what I can only describe as his gulping disorder.

For the first two weeks at home he was totally fine. We switched him from Science Diet to Merrick Lamb and Rice, which he gets twice a day. We did have to board him about two weeks after adopting him due to a family wedding, and it was after this that he started his first episode of gulping/swallowing. Usually at night, he will begin frantically swallowing and gulping. Quincy will frantically search the house for carpet fibers to pull up, and will eventually vomit and then re-eat his food if we don’t get to it in time. This went on for about a week the first time – we brought him to the vet, they said he looked fine, and that it was probably just all the changes in his life. I did give him a gas-x one night, because he was swallowing so much air I was concerned about bloat. He ate some carpet this first time, when I fell asleep with him out of his kennel (he normally sleeps in bed with us, but when he is having these bouts I have learned to kennel him so that he can’t get into anything). He threw the carpet up about 3 days after that.

At that point, we thought he just had a sensitive stomach. So, when we switched his food again (our other dog has an iron stomach, and had done well with us rotating food, so we already had a bag of grain-free salmon from Nutrisource), we weren’t all surprised when the symptoms started up again. This time I gave him a couple of doses of pepto-bismol to ease his tummy troubles, and about 6 days later he stopped vomiting. I should note – when he vomits, it seems associated with these bursts of gulping/swallowing/licking. I thought it was him having an upset stomach and panicking about it, but the vet thought it was odd that he is willing to eat his vomit right away, and that a nauseous dog wouldn’t do that? I am beginning to think that the actual issue is the gulping/swallowing, and the vomiting may be a side effect of that, rather than the other way around.

I switched him to rice and boiled chicken, and he seemed to get better. We put him back on Merrick (chicken and rice this time, because they were out of lamb and rice), and he did fine for about a week. Then last week, he threw up again (he had had a minor bout of swallowing, but nothing like he normally gets). We fasted him for 36 hours, and brought him to the vet. Again, his stool and activity is normal. The vet gave him an anti-nausea shot, and sent us home with some anti-nausea pills and canned science diet ID (for gastro-intestinal health). He was fine for about 3 days, and then last night had one of his worst bouts of swallowing/gulping yet. He didn’t throw up at all (that I know of, I did fall asleep for a little while), but did try to eat a rope toy. I kenneled him for the night, and this morning he ate grass like crazy.

His bouts tend to start at night when we’re going to bed, and he works himself up into a frenzy. Once it starts, it tends to last for multiple days, and kenneling him seems to work to calm him down a little. Our other dog (LoJack) has been totally fine through all of this. They are never outside without my supervision, and he doesn’t get human food (except for the two occasions he has stolen it off of the counter). I haven’t been feeding treats for a few weeks now, but tonight had to give him some zukes at training class. The only other thing would be that he did start HeartGuard and Frontline, but both of those started after his initial attacks. One last thing I should mention is that he plays a LOT with my other dog, and they usually wrestle and play tug of war every night before bed, but will often stop for >2 hours before going to bed. I haven’t felt like there was any correlation between them playing and one of these attacks. When we walk he is on a gentle leader or harness, but he is on his collar when on his tie-out in the yard. I remove the dog’s collars when they’re wrestling so that they don’t hurt each other.

Has anyone dealt with similar symptoms? What did you do? My Internet searches have found that others have this issue but I haven’t found anyone who has solved it. We will probably do blood work and an X-ray next to rule out anything normal, but I want opinions from others on possible nutritional changes that could help. I refuse to switch to science diet unless I absolutely must. I’m considering trying raw, but currently scared of anything that might upset him, since I’ve been cleaning vomit for the past month it seems! I do natures variety raw with my cat, and our other dog has been on grain free nutrisource or merrick for the past year.

Thanks for any advice, I appreciate it!

[emchide]

Hello again everyone,

I’m not sure this will be of more than speculative interest to most of you, unless you also live in the the greater Baltimore metropolitan area, but I think I’ve found a very appealing raw food source at a great price point. Any insights or thoughts will be appreciated, but it seems this company at the moment isn’t shipping product at all and is only available locally. Nonetheless, I am excited by the affordability/quality intersection as I see it.

Dogs Gone Wild

Currently offering one pound chubs, beef marrow bones, turkey necks, and chicken necks at one of the smaller, locally-owned pet stores (Howl, Dogma, and Bark!)- I have two others to explore and see if more variations are available. The PetCo and PetSmart stores nearby don’t carry DGW.

Chicken: 70% chicken / chicken bone
20% vegetables – broccoli, kale, carrots
10% organ meats
$2.50/lb

Turkey: 70% turkey / turkey bone
20% vegetables – green beans, carrots, yellow squash
10% organ meats
$2.65/lb

Beef: 70% beef / beef bone
20% vegetables – butternut squash, green beans, kale
10% organ meats
$3.05/lb

Duck: 70% duck / duck bone
20% vegetables-butternut squash, carrots, zucchini
10% organ meats.
$4.00/lb

Lamb: 80% lamb / lamb bone
20% vegetables – zucchini, carrots, parsley
**was out of stock**

Chicken & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 72%
Turkey & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 76%
Beef & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 70%
Duck and Veggie Mix. Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 75%
Lamb & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 11% Crude Fat (min) 25% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 61%

When thawed, the grinds look very appealing and fresh – softer and looser than my only comparisons, the FreshPet Vital refrigerated chubs which are firmer in texture and ~$6.00/lb.

I expect a significant contributor to their pricing involves not having supplemental vitamins included and thus not being certified as a complete food or whatnot. I’m curious about the perspectives of the knowledgeable members here.

• This topic was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by emchide.
• This topic was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by emchide.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Murphys Mom,
Welcome! I don’t know if Goldens are considered large breeds or not; if they are, I urge you to feed a food from HDM’s list.
You said this: “The other food I really liked was Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast, but a worker at a pet store talked me out of it, saying it’s 1st ingredient is sweet potato, rather than a protein source.”<~~~~~
A quick google search showed that this is the ingredient list of Meadow Feast….no idea why the store employee said that and you can look at the ingredient list as well, on the bag. This is it:

Earthborn Holistic® Meadow Feast™ Natural Dog Food: Ingredients

Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavors, Blueberry Fiber, Cranberry Fiber, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Spinach, Cranberries, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Yucca Schidgera Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you read the ingredient list you’ll see that Greenie’s are a highly processed and unhealthy product. MOst people recognize the importance of avoiding processed foods for themselves and their children, the same is true for dogs.

The ingredients are:

Wheat flour, glycerin, wheat protein isolate, gelatin, water, rice flour, oat fiber, pea protein, potato protein, lecithin, natural poultry flavor, apple pomace, tomato pomace, minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, potassium iodide), ground flaxseed, choline chloride, decaffeinated green tea extract, sodium copper chlorophyllin, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate [vitamin B5], niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], folic acid)

These are basically grains (gluten containing grains nonetheless), vegetable proteins and synthetic vitamins/minerals/amino acids. Why not feed your dog some real food with dental benefits? Raw meaty bones or natural chews like pig ears, bully sticks or dried tracheas. If you insist on feeding a processed dental product I’d at least recommend checking out Zuke’s Z-Bones – while they’re by no means a health food, they’re much better (ingredient-wise) than Greenies.

[theBCnut]

There are grain free foods where this is certainly the case, however not all grain free foods are made equally. Some dog food companies have jumped on the grain free band wagon, but they have made cheap fillers the main ingredient, instead of meat. They end up being high fiber instead of high protein, so you have even more poop. Some of them are so full of peas, lentils, and legumes that they appear to have a good amount of protein, but they really don’t.

[hookilau]

We feed Kirkland cuts as a base food and would like to find a reasonably priced food that we can begin rotating it with. One issue is that we have an 80# APBT and 3 other assorted little guys, so that can be a great deal of dog food =) I went to petco & found the premium canned dog foods were about 3$/can. I’d like to try to get away with 2ish$ per can if I can. We just added Petfresh also.

I went to BJ’s today and found ‘Earth’s Pride Pet chicken dinner’ 6 cans for 8.99. The trouble is that I can’t seem to find any reviews or information about this food online. It says no by-products, artificial preservatives, no artificial colors or dyes, no corn, wheat or soy.

I’m interested in opinions of this food, though not in relation to Kirkland cuts or Petfresh (hope that makes sense) Here ingredients are as it appears on the can in the order it appears on the can:

chicken, chicken broth, chicken liver, carrots, peas. sweet potatoes, whole ground brown rice, whole ground barley, oatmeal, guar gum, salt, flaxseed, blueberries, cranberries, potassium chloride, carrageenan, cassia gum, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, riboflavin supplement, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin b12 supplement, potassium iodid, biotin, vitamin d3 supplement.

crude protein min 8.50%
crude fat min 4.0%
crude fiber max 1.00%
moisture max 78.00%
ME (calculated) Kcal/Kg 1,140.00
ME (calculated) KC/can 421.80

[Melissaandcrew]

I have a Doberman with horrible stomach issues. Her culprit seems to be higher fiber and rice. After dealing with it for years(meds, restricted diets etc) her diarrhea and weight loss resolved on Abady granular, Natures Variety raw and Victor Grain free Ultra Pro.

[Mom2Cavs]

One of my Cavaliers (in my avatar pic, Laverne) has anal gland problems off and on. I attribute it to allergies with her. I have taken her, all the dogs, off all poultry. She is now eating for kibble Holistic Select grain free. It is a poultry free, fish based kibble with a pretty decent fiber content at around 6% max, I believe. It does have potatoes, but they don’t seem to be a problem with my dogs. I do top with canned foods and have been keeping them poultry free, as well. So far, I’ve been using Wellness for the majority….95% Salmon or Beef or Lamb, Beef Stew, and Simple Salmon or Lamb. This seems to be working. She hasn’t had any issues since I switched to doing this. I was using Zignature kibble, and will probably keep it in the rotation. I just bought some Big Dog Natural dehydrated raw in beef flavor that I plan on trying in the mix. I also add probiotics and enzymes to my dogs’ food. There are lots of them recommended on this site. Currently, I’m using Wholistic Pet Digest all Plus (or something like that lol!). This is all I do, no other supplements atm. Oh…I almost forgot, I do give a biscuit at night before bedtime. I’ve been using Wellness Lamb grain free or Whitefish (not grain free). Any soft treats given, usually during therapy dog visits, are Wellness Pure Rewards beef. As you can see, I like Wellness hahahaha. 🙂 I’m not saying this regimen would work for your dog, but to think about allergies….perhaps do away with chicken and definitely grains. Go from there. I’ve been battling this with Laverne for awhile now and I feel I finally have a handle on it.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[JLezinsky]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

We have been wanting to switch our pup to a raw food diet for a while now. We have been doing tons of reading on this forum and research and decided to start with a pre-made raw mix while we figured out how to add more from scratch.

Last weekend at our local pet store the owners of Sirius Raw Dog Food (a small company from Ruby, NY) were out front talking about their product. I was wondering if anyone has heard or more importantly used their food? We decided to give it a try and start or 8 month old Catahoula (40 lbs) on it. We switched her cold turkey without any problem, in fact she went crazy for it. However, the more I read on this form the more excited I get about making good food for her, but at the same time the more overwhelming this starts to seem. Our biggest concern right now is that she is getting the proper nutrition and the correct amounts of food. Sirius told us that she will be good with 2% her body weight, about 1lb a day. And that everything she needs is in the food. We started giving her ½ lb twice a day. It has only been a few days and it is hard to tell if she’s hungry or just wants more because it is so good. Yesterday we increased her feeding to ¾ lb twice a day. Since she is only 8 months should she be giving her more than 2-3%? Sirius told us that she was considered an adolescent. I just want to get your opinion.

Also, should we be using any additional supplements while we stay on the Sirius pre-made mix? Should we be concerned about the calcium while on this?

I figured this was the best place to get answers. I appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks,
Jon

There is not a lot of information on their site so I attached the nutritional info. that they had emailed to me. They have a few blends, a chicken, a beef, a turkey.

beef blend….Ingredients: Beef, Chicken Bones, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Sweet Potato, Carrots, Zucchini, Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, Cilantro, Parsley, Ginger Root, Garlic
Guaranteed analysis: crude protein, min 16.00%; crude fat, min 14.00%, crude fiber, max 00.30%; moisture, max 64.00%

http://www.siriusrawdogfood.com

[theBCnut]

Shawna is having trouble logging on here so I’m passing on her response.

The diet should be geared specifically to the stage of the disease (aka the BUN and Creatinine values). Protein only needs to be restricted in the later stages of the disease. Restricting too early can cause more harm than good. Nutritionist Mary Straus gives values of protein and phosphorus for each of the stages of the disease on her website as well as some canned foods that would be appropriate. She also gives some dehydrated options which would be a good choice, in my opinion, for your pup. http://www.dogaware.com/health&#8230;

I wasn’t really impressed with Azodyl. I use a high quality probiotic and a prebiotic called Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber for nitrogen trapping. Works REALLY well for Audrey.

I mentioned some other supplements and foods I use for Audrey in this link if interested 🙂 /… Hope the link works. If not, it’s on the “Off topic” page.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your fur baby!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi dendad –

Pedigree is a extremely poor quality food – one of the worst out there. If you head over to the review section and search for Pedigree you’ll see that all their foods have been reviewed – the dry foods are rated 1 star and the wet foods are rated 1.5 stars (out of 5). Switching foods is very healthy and dogs should get accustomed to switching foods as early as possible – it helps to strengthen the gut by supporting a healthy and diverse population of microflora in the digestive tract. I would recommend switching her off Pedigree as soon as possible (do a gradual switch over the course of a week by starting with predominantly Pedigree and only a small amount of the new food until you are transitioned entirely to the new food). I’d also recommend adding a tsp. of plain canned pumpkin to her meals (the fiber will may help firm things up) and starting her on a high quality, multi-strain probiotic supplement to get get gut stabilized. Are you on a specific budget or are there certain stores you shop at? I could give you some suggestions for foods to check out base on cost and where you’re shopping. If you don’t have a preference, any of the foods on Dr. Mike’s lists of best puppy foods over on the review site would be worth a try. Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

I must have somehow missed your previous posts, I just saw them today.

Because Dawson is getting the Ziwipeak for one meal a day I wouldn’t get overstressed about whether or not his raw meals are completely balanced – any minor deficiencies will likely be covered by the Ziwipeak. Your recipe looks really good! If you were to feed 1/4 tin of sardines per week, in addition to the cod liver oil, his DHA/EPA needs should be covered. If you can’t get him to eat fruits and vegetables this should be okay seeing as he is getting a green superfood supplement (just make sure to rotate ingredients often). You may, however, want to add an ingredient with some fiber for the meals where he’s not getting bone if he’s not eating fruits and veggies either – some flax meal would work and it would also have the added benefit of helping to balance the fats in his predominantly chicken diet. I would still include a small amount of organ meat in the diet even though he’s getting the glandular supplement. I would suggest about an ounce or an ounce and a half of liver every week and an ounce or an ounce and a half of kidney (or another organ, if you can get it). If you’re concerned about his weight and want to keep fat levels low 95% lean should be okay, I wouldn’t go any leaner than that though. You could also use heart and gizzard as part of his muscle meat component – very lean and also pretty cheap. The only other suggestion I would make is to incorporate some nuts or seeds occasionally (I like sprouted pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, chia or flax) and possibly a few canned oysters as well. The nuts/seeds will provide trace nutrients such as manganese and the oysters are rich in copper and zinc. You should also add a very small amount of salt. This aren’t additions that need to be made daily, but occasionally to help fill the gaps. Variety is key.

[bdatxmama]

I have a 5 month old boxer, he originally was on science diet when we got him at 4 months, but we changed his dog food to 4Health. We then just recently got another boxer from the same breeder, 7 weeks old and she is on the science diet (the breeder prefers this brand). Anyway, we had to take her to the vet within 72 hours of receiving her from the breeder. The vet asked what she is eating we told him, but that we were going to switch her to the 4Health. He did not know anything about 4Health, but said Science Diet is a good dog food. Here on dogfoodadvisor it is rated 2.5 stars while 4Health is rated 4 stars. He really said he did not have a favorite dog food but that his recommendation was that the dog food needed to have these ratio 22 – 28% protein, 3 – 5% fat, and 12 – 18% fiber/carbohydrate. Well, I checked the science diet and it does not fall into these ratios and neither does the 4Health. What is your take on his ratios? I can’t seem to find any dog food that fits into these ratios.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

I would recommend “See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix” – it’s a combination of whole foods and vitamins and minerals designed to balance a boneless raw meat diet. You add 2 – 4 tbs. per pound of meat and it supplies everything you need (in terms of vitamins, minerals, fiber and balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio). I’m actually planning on utilizing this mix part time this fall when I go back to school to save me some time – as much as I love doing everything completely from scratch it can really take up a lot of time. You could use this while you’re researching how to do things completely from scratch. There are some other “pre-mixes” out there as well (Urban Wolf, Prefereance, Birkdale, Grandma Lucy’s, Sojo’s, Dr. Harvey’s, etc.). You will still need to add omega 3’s – either in the form of a quality fish oil, fatty fish, cage-free eggs or some combination of these.

If you’re concerned about a correlation between fish oil and prostate cancer I’d suggest reading this article by Dr. Mercola:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/31/omega-3-fats.aspx#!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

Based on the information provided to me by the Earthborn rep when I spoke to him on the phone, the grain-inclusive Puppy Vantage is not appropriate for large or giant breed puppies. Most veterinary nutritionists recommend large or giant breed puppies consume no more than 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. I was told by the rep that the max calcium level in the Puppy Vantage is 1.61% – this equates to 4.19 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. which is too high.

I can’t guarantee that switching to a grain-free kibble will or will not cause digestive upset as all dogs are different. What I would suggest is doing a gradual transition – 25% new/75% old for 3 – 4 days, 50% new/50% old for 3 – 4 days, 75% new/25% old for 3 – 4 days until you’re up to 100% new. I would also recommend adding a tablespoon on plain canned pumpkin and a probiotic supplement to each meal during the transition period. The fiber in the pumpkin and probiotics should help to minimize digestive upset.

A wet food is not more likely to cause digestive upset than a dry food, it just depends on the individual dog and whether or not the dog handles new foods. Trying new foods will be a good way to determine whether or not your dog has a healthy gut. Dogs that don’t have healthy guts (the balance of microflora in their gut is off) do not tolerate changes in food, I truly healthy dog can switch from food to food with no transition and not experience digestive upset. Rotating foods helps to strengthen the gut.

The wet food can be from the same company as the dry but it doesn’t have to be. A general rule of thumb is that 1 large can of wet food (usually around 13 oz.) is roughly the caloric equivalent of 1 C. of kibble. So adjust your dog’s kibble intake based on how much wet food you want to feed. For example, if he’s eating 3 C. kibble per day and you wanted to start giving him 1 large can per day you would give 2 C. dry + 1 can. If you do decide to go with Earthborn’s wet foods, keep in mind they come in smaller tubs (9 oz.) versus the traditional 13 oz. cans so I’d say one of their tubs would be the equivalent of about 3/4 C. kibble.

[theBCnut]

WOW!! That is a lot of questions. Some of them HDM is the best source for answers, but I can tackle a few.

Probiotics are the good micro-organisms in the gut and they are a huge part of the immune system, because they compete with bad micro-organisms and thereby keep their numbers small. They are naturally occurring in tripe.

Prebiotics are food for probiotics, they are fibers that the probiotics love, they aren’t all created equal though, some prebiotics feed the bad stuff just as well as the good.

Enzymes carry nutrients where they need to go in the body and aid in digestion. There are already enzymes in raw meat, but in processing for kibble they are destroyed. Dogs make enzymes, but some do not make enough, because they were made to get them out of their food. And the body adjusts enzyme production to match the diet, so if a dog was getting a high carb, low protein diet for a long time, it may take a while for its body to get used to the different need for enzymes when the diet is changed. Digestive enzymes are the ones that are specific to digestion.

Spirulina is a blue green algae that is chockful of micronutrients, which are all the little things that a body probably needs, but science hasn’t determined how much of what or what for, so dog food companies don’t have to add them back into the food.

Fish oil, fish body oil are sources of omega 3s and need to be fresh so putting it in a bag of kibble may not be a good thing. Krill are little shrimp, otherwise the same applies to fish oil. Krill oil is supposed to be better. It has some of those micronutritents in it and a higher level of quality omega 3s.

As for why some say use them, don’t use them etc. There are what I consider raw food purists, that don’t feed anything except whole carcass raw prey. Period. They believe that since that is how wolves evolved, that is what you should feed dogs. Then there are those that recognize that we don’t live in that world anymore. That the world we do live in has pollution and food animals that were not raised as prefectly as we could want and therefore are lacking some of those things that if we lived in a perfect world they would have. They feed antioxidant rich foods to help rid the body of toxins and other foods to help make up for the perceived lack in the prey animals. And then there is every shade in between.

My fingers hurt, someone else will have to provide more. Or I will later.

[Woodcutter]

Hi HDM. On the front label it reads: made with real chicken and goes on with Chelated minerals for better absorption. Sounds good so far, next line is “good omega 6 to 3 ratio”
bran & flaxseed….product of USA
on the back;:Chicken, chicken broth, beef liver, beef lung, ocean fish, oat bran, tomato paste, flaxseed flour, and after this is a bunch of elements & vitamins and minerals

their guaranteed analysis:
crude protien(min)….9%
crude fat(min)………..6%
crude fiber(max)…….1.5%
moisture(max)……….78%
It goes on to say it meets nutrition levels of AAFCO for all stages of a dogs life.
So this food doesn’t look all that bad really and it made me wonder why it’s at Big Lots. I have bought other canned food from them and after checking here I was too leery to feed it and got rid of it. I think it was Harmony Farms. or some such. It looks as though it would rate at least a 4, maybe a 5 but I just don’t know if there have been any problems with the maker.

[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi neezerfan –

Once thawed raw food should be used within 3 days. I’m only aware of two pre-mixes designed to balance a bone inclusive diet – one is the whole carcass formula sold by Feline Instincts and the other is CarnivoreRAW without Calcium sold by Young Again Pet Food. A much cheaper route would be to just add a low calcium or calcium free human multi-vitamin, some veggies (or a fiber supplement) and omega 3’s. You could also learn to balance a recipe completely from scratch with whole foods (this is what I do) but it’s a bit more time intensive and takes a bit of research. Rabbit is high in bone (as are most smaller prey animals) but the calcium to phosphorus ratio is still balanced so it’s not necessary to add more meat. If you find that your dog is constipated you can certainly add more more (high levels of bone can cause constipation for some dogs) but I honestly don’t think it will be an issue. The rabbit heads should be fine for your dog, you’ll have to try them out and see though.

[theBCnut]

If it is a small privately owned market, they might order for you. But for your purposes, psyllium powder will do. You just want to increase fiber a little bit.

[mah4angel]

Yes! I do believe that we are always reunited with those we love; animal and human. Whether it be in Heaven or in another lifetime, whatever you happen to believe in ^_^

There’s a whole forum topic dedicated to raw dog food menus here: /forums/topic/menus/. I’m totally no raw dog food genie haha and you can see all of my ramblings and questions on there and my current future recipe is the last comment on the thread hehe. I don’t have everything I need to actually feed him his raw diet yet so that’s why I’m not feeding him 100% raw as of yet but I will be soon!

Here is a thread for help with starting a dog on raw dog food: /forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/ BUT it will take a few months to transition her all the way up the ladder to raw food, so I wouldn’t be super worried about it quite yet 😀 I think the most important thing is to just get her off of Science Diet food. And if you have any of the Science Diet left, PLEASE donate it to a local shelter! I know that Science Diet is not at all optimal for our wonderful furry friends but shelters need all that they can get 🙂

I also wanted to add something that I forgot to my original comment, which is to start feeding raw meaty bones and organ meat (livers, hearts, etc.) when she is fully transitioned to DNA (or another freeze or air-dried raw). RMB’s as we call them are GREAT for dental health! And it’ll be a great introduction to real, raw meat. Pork necks, chicken necks, ox tails, chicken backs, chicken feet, pork feet, etc. are all RMB’s (as opposed to recreational bones like thigh bones, etc.) that are recommended. And the organ meats will supply extra nutrients. Just make sure to freeze them for two weeks just to be on the safe side 🙂

RMB’s and organs (and any table scraps, etc.) should make up no more than 20% of her daily diet (because it will throw off the balance supplied in the pre-made food), so you’ll want to give her maybe one pork neck one day and maybe one chicken heart the next day, and so on and so forth. BUT like I said, this is all a long way off so I wouldn’t focus too much on this portion of the feeding.

In reality, the longest transition time will more than likely be right now, switching from Science Diet to whatever 4-star GRAIN-FREE food (totally forgot to mention that the four-star food should be grain-free) you choose, whether it be Nature’s Domain or something else. This is because her tummy isn’t used to the lack of grains. It’s almost like a detox process. So, that transition will most likely take the longest to complete; probably a month or so.

This is why adding fiber (with things like pureed pumpkin, hemp, chia, and flax seed, etc.) and probiotics/digestive enzymes (with things like yogurt, etc.) is important because it helps to nourish the balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut as well as balancing out any other digestive problems.

I’m trying to pack in a lot of information into one comment so that you won’t have to do too too much fishing for information. It’s stressful, I know! The most important thing is to just pull the trigger and do it. I second-guessed myself and I waited until I felt I had found the perfect food, but no food is 100% perfect. There is no supplementing a wolf’s primitive diet with just one food, try as we might hehe ^_^

[mah4angel]

Hi! I’d like to start out by saying to ChristyGH and dendad, I am SO SO sorry for your losses! I know it’s easy to feel bad about your choice of diet for your babies but it is absolutely NOT your fault!! We all can see how much love you had for your babies and all of us have been there! You had every reason to believe that you were doing the best for your babies and no one should ever begrudge you for it, including yourself <3

I’m on my way to feeding my Louie (a 10-pound Silky) 100% raw and had a few suggestions myself.

His previous owners had him on pretty much whatever was on sale at the grocery store/whatever they decided to pick up from Costco that day (Pedigree, Purina etc.). The one he was on when we took him home was Purina Puppy Chow (we got him four months ago and he’s three, not a puppy anymore).

I’ve personally found that it was easier to transition him from the CRAP he was eating before slowly up the ladder of great-quality foods. I would buy small batches of each new food (5-10 pounds if available) which would last him for a month or so and then move on to a higher quality kibble. Every time I’ve upgraded his food, he’s picked out the old one from his bowl! ^_^

It’s important to mention how to transition a dog. You have to transition SLOWLY, very very slowly. You’re going to keep a certain ratio of new food to old food for a week OR if her bowel movements change, wait until they turn to normal to move onto the next ratio. At first, have 25% of the new food, and 75% of the old food. Then (once everything is normal) do 50% new 50% old. Finally, 75% new, 25% old until it’s 100% new food.

My suggestion (after going through this whole process) would be to do this (remember to ALWAYS properly transition your pup between each step and add probiotics/digestive enzymes and fiber):

-Change from Science Diet to a four-star kibble (something like Nature’s Domain: http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/ which is sold at Costco in HUGE bags so it might not be the best for a little one like yours)

-Then from a four-star kibble to a five-star kibble (like Innova Prime: http://www.petco.com/product/118780/Innova-Prime-Grain-Free-Beef-And-Lamb-Adult-Dry-Dog-Food.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch, or Earthborn Holistic: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural-grain-free-dry-dog-food). I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Earthborn Holistic products, they are GREAT quality and my Louie adores the Primitive Natural kibble.

-Then start SLOWLY adding in wet food to the kibble (like the Earthborn dinners: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-duke-s-din-din-gourmet-dinner-wet-dog-food).

-Then, switch from the five-star kibble to something that has raw in it like Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost food (which has bits of freeze-dried raw in it): http://www.petflow.com/product/natures-variety/nature-s-variety-instinct-grain-free-raw-boost-venison-meal-lamb-meal-dry-dog-food. Continue to add in the wet food.

-Then go to a 100% raw kibble like DNA (air-dried raw, stands for Dried N Alive): http://www.dnapetfood.com/node/20, or something similar. At first, I would continue to add in the wet food to this, but then I would transition her to 100% DNA (or whatever food you decide to use).

-And then transition from that to a pre-made frozen raw OR you could totally cut costs and make your own (which is what I’m doing), and then you’ll have 100% control over what she’s eating 😀

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by mah4angel.

[Hershy]

Hello, again, HDM,
Still searching for the best food to meet quality for a price I can afford. Have ruled out the Kirkland-wasn’t happy with many reviews I read. Wellness Core Puppy is on your list of favorite foods in the “grain free” list.
Do you know yet if Wellness Large Breed Puppy will be on your Grain inclusive list? Calcium (min) is nice and low. I’m leaning toward this one for now. Also wondered what the asterisk comment means relating to food quality. “Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO…” – do they mean these ingredients are of no benefit for the puppy, and a waste to add, or maybe amount of it not enough of to do the job? I realize they are not the bare bones nutrients a dog needs, but why do they put this on the bag? Seems the comment would be more useful on the bag that does NOT have these ingredients? ; ). I think I’m giving this way too much thought..

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (a natural source of DHA – Docosahexaenoic Acid), Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Salt, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products
Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%, Crude Fat (min.) 12.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.5%, Moisture (max.) 11.0%, Calcium (min.) 1.0%, Phosphorus (min.) .90%, Vitamin E (min.) 150IU, Omega 6* (min.) 2.5%, Omega 3* (min.) .50%, DHA .137#37;, Beta-Carotene* (min.) 5 mg/kg, Lycopene* (min.) .25 mg/kg, Taurine* (min.) .09%, Total Micro-Organisms* (min.) 20,000,000 CFU/lb. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Thanks!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Hershy.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Hershy.