[pugmomsandy]

Does she eat large or small kibble? My previous bulldog ate xs/small kibble with canned food without any problems. She didn’t have to chew any of it and was able to lick it all up from her bowl. Have you tried soaking the kibble for several minutes (10-20 min)?

[pugmomsandy]

I give digestive enzymes to all the kibble fed dogs here. You can even find high-lipase digestive enzymes from Lipo Gold and Integrative Therapeutics. I haven’t had one with pancreatitis yet and have had 252 fosters come through here and I serve mod-high fat kibbles and canned food. I currently don’t use a high-lipase product either, just regular dog enzymes. I like Mercola, B-Naturals and NWC Total Zymes.

[pugmomsandy]

Their website is vitalessentialsraw dot com.

[pugmomsandy]

The reasons for adding a quality canned food: add moisture to the diet, quality canned foods have a good amount of protein since they don’t need carbohydrate binders like kibble, it’s easier to digest since it’s not hard and dry like kibble, they don’t have preservatives in them, and it’s easy to mix in powdered supplements. Canned foods are more species-appropriate than dry pellets.

Drawbacks: softer stool sometimes and the canned foods usually don’t include probiotics. They might have prebiotics like inulin/chicory root.

You don’t have to stick with the same brand of wet as you are using dry. Use various brands and feed a rotaional diet.

[pugmomsandy]

Not sure if you’ve come across this topic yet for large breed pups, so here it is:

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

It has more article links and food recommendations. And here is the link to the PDF list of foods (around page 15 and again around page 35 in the large breed pup topic):

https://docs.google.com/a/dogfoodadvisor.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1

Also, manufacturers change their recipes whenever they want to, so it wouldn’t hurt to double check on the foods that you are interested in.

It comes down to controlled calcium and the proper calcium to phosphorus ratio for large breed pups. Other than that is marketing.

[pugmomsandy]

Amicus by Horizon Pet Food had a senior/weight management formula.

[pugmomsandy]

Also, if you’re on the “other side” or the “review” side, there is a pale blue bubble just above the comment box (on the same line that says comments and community) that lets you know if you have replies. It will be red in color when you have a reply.

[pugmomsandy]

There’s even a warning like that on Weruva Human Style canned food! It looks like human soup. And it’s also made in a human food kitchen.

[pugmomsandy]

The 80/10/10 numbers for raw feeding is an “average”. But what’s included in the average? Small whole animals whose bones can be consumed and larger animals whose bones cannot! For instance, let’s say a wolf eats mostly muscle/organs from a bison and hardly any of it’s bones because they’re too dense. Just have to keep in mind the phrase “balance over time” when feeding raw. But since you are going by a recipe, your food should end up mostly balanced than not! Liver should ideally be not more than 5%. Sometimes I add more muscle meat and sometimes I don’t. So sometimes my batch is around 30% bone and sometimes near 10%. I’m not exact all the time. I add heart, gizzard, tripe or muscle meat like thighs as additional “muscle meat” and have to do some algebra to figure it all out! For 5 lbs of whole chicken that’s around 30% bone, I can add up to 9.5 lbs of muscle and half a pound of additional liver to make it around 10% bone and around 5% liver. I haven’t seen (or looked for) bone content numbers for whole calf. I use preymodelraw.com for some figures on bone content. This is just what I do. http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html/_/raw-chat/common-cuts-a-photographic-guide-to-raw-meaty-r15

[pugmomsandy]

They are not the same foods. I just looked at the website. I did put the Break Away foods on the list of foods to review. Unfortunately, it is a long list. Thanks for the heads up.

[pugmomsandy]

I prefer the Ground Chicken Supermix to replace the whole meat recipe. Since whole birds are approximately 30% bone, the added hearts/liver/gizzard will bring the total bone content down a little. Also, FYI, it’s high in fat. Didn’t know if you noticed. 15% protein, 16% fat. My dogs don’t have an issue with that (I leave skin on) but if you’re currently using lean meat, you might want to up the fat a little to transition your dog to this product. Or serve a lean breakfast and then chicken supermix for dinner. I just clicked on the ground beef and chicken-no-gizzards and the products were not available. Maybe sold out now? They were there earlier this morning.

[pugmomsandy]

When the reviews get updated, the paragraph about being ethoxyquin free is being left off. Other meat meals have the possibility of containing ethoxyquin or other artificial preservative that doesn’t necessarily have to be disclosed, so we didn’t want to single only fish meal out. But the last time I contacted Wellness, they stated their foods and sources were ethoxyquin free. Also, I suggest that if you see another meat meal that doesn’t state that it’s naturally preserved, contact the company and find out and also be specific with the question.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_5/features/Dog-Food-Preservatives_16221-1.html

[pugmomsandy]

Again, without seeing the actual product your looking at…

If you’re going to use a bone-in red meat grind with organs and liver, then it looking at the book, I would do this:

bone-in red meat grind
vit/min supplement
fatty acid supplement
veggie mash
enzymes, glandulars, probiotics…

So yes, you can use the grind in the boneless beef recipe and leave out the bone meal supplementation.

For a bone-in chicken grind, it replaces the necks and thighs (and hopefully the grind will have organs as well so it would be replacing the whole recipe to where you wouldn’t be adding any heart/gizzard/liver yourself).

Can you post the product links?

[pugmomsandy]

This one is a very tiny capsule and usually on sale!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-16-strain-probioticwith-fos-60-veg-caps

Probiotics are fairly widely available at box stores and pet boutiques. I just look for a product with at least 10 strains of organisms.

[pugmomsandy]

The fiber can be added with each meal daily. You just need to find out which dose of that particular fiber works best and start with a smaller amount. Some dogs need more fiber and some dogs do better with less fiber. That’s something you’ll need to figure out though. For a 25 lb dog: 1/2 teaspoon of psyllium or coconut fiber or chia or a tablespoon of pumpkin puree. These numbers aren’t written in stone. My 20 lb dogs either get 1/4 tsp of psyllium or a whole teaspoon of chia.

You might also try a limited ingredient diet if there are any out there that are appropriate for large breed puppies until he gets better.

He was a little too young to leave his mother (IMO). Younger pups might not have a strong enough immune system (since he’s meds for mites) and not a strong enough gut (a healthy amount of good bacteria in his intestines) to be eating processed hard kibble. And receiving vaccinations and being on a prescription are both stressors. I’d give him probiotics to strengthen his gut.

At the end of the day, we just want are pups to be better. Even if that means Science Diet for a couple of weeks or months until he is stronger.

[pugmomsandy]

Some suggestions: feed slightly less volume per feed, feed him only twice a day if he’s old enough to do so, give a multi-strain probiotic daily, add some fiber (ground psyllium, coconut fiber, chia seeds, pure pumpkin puree) or fiber products like The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form or one called Firm-Up with each feed, or find a food with higher fiber content. My dogs that eat foods with pea fiber or chickpeas or lentils have solid stools.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Basically, I would use the bone-in grinds in place of the Dr B bone-in recipe.

[pugmomsandy]

I’m not familiar with MPC grinds, but if you get the ones with bone and organs included, I wouldn’t add anything to it besides the vitamin supplements if you like. The heart and gizzard and tripe count as “muscle meat” in a recipe just like chicken breast. You can feed tripe daily if you like. You might consider getting a meat grinder that has at least 1 hp if you plan on feeding raw grinds long term. 1hp (and even .75 hp) is sufficient to grind chicken bones. You can cut costs by buying bulk chicken legs and necks and organs by the case. Grind up 50 lbs of food at a time and save on time!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

I gave chicken wings to my pugs in the beginning and one of them chomped once or twice and then swallowed. He didn’t have any issues with that. He even eats a duck neck in 20 seconds, maybe. The sort of “round” neck bones seem less of a problem (well, less scary for the human) swallowed whole than a linear bone like a wing and chicken necks are quite common in ethnic grocery stores. Shouldn’t have any problem finding those and they’re small, maybe 1 inch wide and 3-4 inches long.

[pugmomsandy]

I started out using “Real Foods for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. It has boneless recipes along with a veggie mash recipe and a vitamin recipe to balance everything out. There are also guidelines for omega-3 and other supplements. It’s actually easy once you do it for the first time. You initially have to buy some vitamins and grind these up and either use bone meal or dried egg shells if you like.

[pugmomsandy]

I haven’t been to dogforums dot com in a while, but there were a couple threads there with lists of low ash foods.

[pugmomsandy]

If you feed a variety of formulas of wet food that have varying amounts of fat, he should be ok. You could just reduce the amount of Wilderness slightly since it has more calories. My dogs also like Weruva, Wellness Stews, and Merrick.

[pugmomsandy]

It would still be ok to add the oil daily. Alot of kibbles are lacking in sufficient omega 3 or are not in a proper ratio with omega 6. But also, the fish oil in the kibble can lose it’s potency or start to become rancid once the bag is opened. Proper storage is a must. Another option if you want to add variety is to just give some canned sardines or other oily fish a couple times a week. Or you can even give raw fish.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

[pugmomsandy]

They appear to be around 3-4 star grain inclusive recipes.

[pugmomsandy]

I think you add your picture when you edit your profile.

[pugmomsandy]

LOL! Ok. I’ve almost done that a couple times. I don’t think “report” was always an option. It was added not too long ago.

[pugmomsandy]

Ask your vet about giving an omega 3 supplement from algae. It’s non-fish and non-meat. Dogaware dot com has a section on homemade food.

[pugmomsandy]

I suggest topping the kibble she does well on with some canned food to make it more appealing. There are several options in canned foods that are single protein and limited ingredient. You could even make your own bone broth with pork bones.

[pugmomsandy]

My dogs never had an issue with THK, although I’ve only used Zeal. Their stool was a little larger but that wasn’t an issue for me. I didn’t have any “sticks” issue either. My dogs eat bones, so alfalfa sticks probably wouldn’t have worried me. I could see myself using this in some homemade food in a rotation.

[pugmomsandy]

What’s the title of the article? Edit: Never mind. I just saw the ad.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Just posting so I can get email update. No info to offer!

[pugmomsandy]

All my fat foster pugs lost weight eating regular 5 star foods. I just make sure to buy at least 30% protein, regular fat and feed less than the recommended amount on the bag. The pugs would eat 2/3 cup per day. There is Core Reduced Fat you might want to check out. Also Annamaet Lean.

[pugmomsandy]

I still have a case of it use up. I use it as a topper, not a sole diet. It rehydrates well and mixes well. I bought it before the controversy but like it.

[pugmomsandy]

One article states the milbemycin in Trifexis (Eli Lilly and Elanco) is sourced from China.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/breaking-news/green-country-vet-refuses-to-carry-trifexis/ndpwt/

[pugmomsandy]

You could offer a variety of foods but might want to buy the medium sized bags so they are used up in a good amount of time. Offer the foods she has liked for a couple of meals in between the Primal or sprinkle the Primal on top of the other foods. Instinct has freeze dried powder (Raw Boost product) that is conveniently already in sprinkle form in a canister. I like to finish an open bag of kibble by two months. I’ve actually never kept track of it, but I have several fosters and use about 10 cups of kibble per day and large bags have around 100-120 cups and I’ll have 2 or 3 different foods open at once.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been hearing that. Whether or not that it is true and can be connected to dogs’ deaths is still open. But it is a scary thought…

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/owners-blame-700-dog-deaths-trifexis/nb5B4/

[pugmomsandy]

You surely can repeat meals. Nothing wrong with that. You can feed one protein per week and then switch or one protein meal, up to you. Every meal does not have to be balanced. Just remember balance over time (and variety). I make a batch of food (about 30 lbs) and they almost eat all of it before I make another one that is different. But my dogs eat alot of other things as well – canned food, dehydrated food and some kibble, but they do get raw just about every day. Another thing to consider in the beginning is feeding one food for at least 3 – 4 weeks so you can watch for an allergy or intolerance to that particular food before offering a host of different flavors. For instance, test out the turkey and veggies for 3-4 weeks before introducing another formula. ZiwiPeak and K9 Natural are from New Zealand so you probably can find them.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

There are raw foods with added minerals like Stella & chewy’s and Primal to name a few. Nature’s Variety’s chicken recipe has actually passed feeding trials so I would assume their other recipes are formulated similarly (but it’s just an assumption). Answers (Detailed) has a pork recipe. And fortunately, there are more protein choices as well for raw foods like rabbit, bison and goat. You should be able to find lamb and pork relatively easy. The book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” also includes a recipe for a vitamin/mineral mix to make complete diets. Check out Hare-Today Gone Tomorrow and My Pet Carnivore for meat, organs, grinds and whole prey. A non-fish oil option for omega-3 is algae oil and calamari oil if he has a sensitivity to fish oil as well. There are some dehydrated or freeze-dried options as well like Grandma Lucy’s (not raw) and ZiwiPeak (air-dried).

[pugmomsandy]

Commercial frozen products have a best-by date on them. But I also buy bulk meaty bones and chew bones and other meats and plain organs so I use them up within a year. Dogs can eat freezer burned items as well. The items with fruits and veggies in them don’t have a very long shelf life even frozen since the enzymes start working on the food.

[pugmomsandy]

The freeze drying process makes it more expensive. I would like to buy a freeze dryer, but they’re at least $10,000! @@ So I bought a full size upright freezer instead (on sale) to store all the frozen raw! The difference is in freeze-dried food, the moisture is removed and the product is shelf stable.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve used the Lamb and Heartland Select. The fosters did fine on them and had good transitions. Their output was formed and med-large. I like to use it for dogs that aren’t used to eating higher amounts of protein. You could contact Nutrisource and ask them what their “natural chicken and turkey flavor” is made of. Would be interesting to know. Also, I don’t think the manufacturer has had a recall.

[pugmomsandy]

Nutrisource small/med breed puppy kibble and Nature’s Select Hi-Pro/Puppy are tiny. Also, there is Horizon Amicus for toy breeds. These are the smallest kibbles I’ve fed.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

You can also feed whole raw fish. I buy sardines that range from 7-10 inches long and were only $1.19 per pound. Also some restaurant suppliers will also sell to the public so you can buy by the case.

[pugmomsandy]

He doesn’t need to switch to adult food. Personally I feed puppy food to all ages. Adding a multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzymes will help him to digest better even though the food has them in it already. Sometimes they lose their potency with the kibble making process. And kibble is just hard and dry and can take several hours to break down and the dog digestive system is fast so dense kibble sometimes doesn’t get broken down enough. And the undigested protein makes powerful gas! My pup used to have terrible gas too. After being on probiotics for a while he should get more efficient with digestion. I’d give the supplement with each meal for several weeks and see how he does. My group only gets supplements once or twice a week and only if they eat kibble.

[pugmomsandy]

I wouldn’t just go by her weight alone. Check out her “body condition score” and adjust her intake to keep her at a good body condition. There are many variables that affect weight – breed, genetics, muscle mass, activity level…a dog can be heavy and have a great body condition.

One of the rescue vets I deal with only grades by body condition now.

[pugmomsandy]

Nutrisource grain free Lamb is 31% protein and Seafood Select is 28%. I’ve used both and would use them again.

[pugmomsandy]

I thought Kirkland canned is being replaced by Nature’s Domain. Here’s the ND site:

http://www.great-pet-supplies.com/natures-domain-brand

Hopefully, someone else will chime in.

[pugmomsandy]

Can one have too much green tripe in a recipe? I’m using it as muscle meat.

[pugmomsandy]

CarnivorRaw from youngagainpetfood.com has the bone-in supplement.

[pugmomsandy]

Is that what they’re calling feather meal – hydrolyzed poultry by-product aggregate? Just wondering. Are you able to find any holistic vets in your area? Or have you tried an elimination diet?

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