[Zach M]

Is this a good topper for dog food? If so how much do i give a 52 pound dog? Also, how much better would it be if i gave sardines and veggies as a topper? Thanks in advance!

[Zach M]

And anything I could do to make kibble better let me know.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zach-
I am not familiar with Primal turkey and sardine. But, I’m all in favor of boosting kibble with a topper. Have you checked out Steve Brown’s website, See Spot Live Longer? He has written a few books on home made food and dog nutrition. He also has a download that is only $2.95 that spells out how to supplement kibble with fresh and raw foods. Such as eggs, sardines, veges, fruits and organs. I top my pups kibble with either canned, dehydrated, frozen raw nuggets, eggs or sardines every meal. Have fun with it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

Primal’s raw formulas could certainly be used as a topper to boost the quality of kibble. You could also use tinned sardines and fresh veggies. The benefits of using the Primal would be that it’s a complete and balanced food so you could add as much as you wanted and it’s raw however, canned sardines and fresh cooked veggies would still be a good boost and would certainly be cheaper. If you go with the Primal, like I said, you can add as much as you want because it’s complete and balanced – just be sure the reduce the amount of kibble he’s receiving accordingly. If you’re feeding sardines and veggies, it should account for no more than 10% of your dog’s calories.

[Zach M]

Thanks guys! I was just curious. I do have the ABC way book. That is where i got the idea of sardines.

[Zach M]

Im thinking about going with duck, but i have a question, what is the difference between the freeze dried and the frozen raw. The frozen raw is so much cheaper. Just wondering. Oh, btw, the ingredients are nearly identical.

[pugmomsandy]

The freeze drying process makes it more expensive. I would like to buy a freeze dryer, but they’re at least $10,000! @@ So I bought a full size upright freezer instead (on sale) to store all the frozen raw! The difference is in freeze-dried food, the moisture is removed and the product is shelf stable.

[Zach M]

How long does frozen raw last then?

[Zach M]

Or does it last a long time as long as it is kept in the freezer, where as freeze dried is shelf stable?

[pugmomsandy]

Commercial frozen products have a best-by date on them. But I also buy bulk meaty bones and chew bones and other meats and plain organs so I use them up within a year. Dogs can eat freezer burned items as well. The items with fruits and veggies in them don’t have a very long shelf life even frozen since the enzymes start working on the food.

[Barbara O]

I feed Primal chicken…only because it’s the only one Toby will eat…He has done exceedingly well on it..I’ve fed him Instinct frozen but Primal has some veggies in it…this is not a dog…this is a genet…My friend feeds the Duck Primal mixed into the kibble she feeds…it has made a great difference in the dog’s health…It has a rare disease and this food has prolonged the dog’s life…The medicine alone runs her about $200.00 a month…so she’s picky about what she feeds. I cannot say enough good about Primal…and Instinct also..I do Great Dane rescue and all dogs are different…The one I’ve adopted is a triple recessive…he will be prone to skin and hair disorders…so I’m trying to meet this head on…the other Danes I’ve had the past year loved raw veggies, raw bones and their kibble.The woofed their feed down, whereas Roger is a slow eater. Just use common horse sense with your dogs…Make sure they get enough fat as most foods limit this or use an inferior oil…salmon oil is best…they need the DHA…most oils are omega 6 that you find in their feed…just remember…eliminate wheat, soy and corn…these are inferior feeds for our domestic animals..they are carnivores, kin to wolves, and need animal protein…they are not kin to cows…which are omnivores….

[Zach M]

Thanks guys!

[cindy q]

So is Primal frozen cheaper than freeze dried? I just started using primal and I bought the frezze dried thinking it would be cheaper and also because I can’t find the frozen near me. I can order it online, but I was afraid of it thawing since I work all day.

[Zach M]

Well, i decided to switch off with duck recipe. I ordered 3 lbs or frozen online for just 20 dollars, where as the freeze dried was the same price for 14 ounces.

[cindy q]

Zach M. Where did you order online?

[Zach M]

I ordered from only natural pet. The shipping is pricey 8dollars and i should of mentioned that. The shipping is also slow. It is worth it to me though.

[Zach M]

Oops. Wrong website. I orser other treats from there. I ordered it from wag

[Zach M]

Should i go with pronto or go with the frozen raw nuggets? From my understanding they are practically the same. What do you guys think?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Primal Pronto is the same as all their other foods, the only difference is that the nuggets are smaller so it thaws faster.

[Zach M]

OK, thanks! I thought they were the same, but I was just wondering. I think next time i’m going with pronto turkey and sardine, and rotating it with duck. Thanks for all the help.

[cindy q]

Zach, I couldn’t find any frozen primal on Wag.com only freeze dried? Also does anyone know if its ok to mix raw (primal) with kibble? Someone who sells raw gave me paper work on raw and it said not to mix raw and kibble because they digest them differently.

[Barbara O]

I got several posts on the subject of Primal..I feed the Primal frozen…It is raw meat and veggies…with supplements added. It is manufactured in a facility that passes inspection for human food manufacture…The product is wonderful. I have a small spotted genet that eats it daily. I have mixed it in cat kibble and dog kibble…My friend has a dog that is very picky and it is a big dog…she mixes the duck with the kibble and the dog eats it like candy… I travel with it frozen. If you order it frozen…order as much as you can afford…that way the shipping will be cheaper. Check your local feed stores…those that carry dog and cat food…Also…check with any of your pet shops. I’ve found it in odd places when we travel. When they ship it, it is packed in dry ice…I order organic, grass fed beef for my husband and me and it is shipped from the midwest to hot Arizona in July…always comes completely frozen…ready for my freezer. By adding the Primal to the diet, you are assured of getting everything your animal needs…and you can add your own fruits and veggies to the food…I am assured the kibble, even if it is plant based, meets my Dane’s and genet’s needs…and they both are shiny and healthy. Have been raising and caring for animals longer than many of you have been alive…have a heavy background in animal nutrition in my undergraduate degree plus a few vet courses under my belt as well as human food chemistry courses…have tried to stay up with the research…Don’t believe everything your vet tells you…any vet that tells me how good Science Diet is, I run away from….Am fortunate I have a vet that has taken care of all my exotics and will call over the US getting answers to questions we might both have…have raised raccoon, ring tails, Fennec foxes…had some of the oldest in captivity…due to diligence in diet….both were spoiled pets….a animal fed a well balanced diet with added good oils and digestive enzymes, etc., is one who’s immune system is going to keep them healthy….Remember…corn, wheat and soy are not good for dogs…and raw bones to gnaw on are a blessing…cleans teeth and gives them B vitamins they need….They don’t have people stomachs…they have a straight tube so don’t give them too much variety at a time….They are a carnivore….not a cow…they have teeth for tearing…not for grinding…And….when the diet is high in protein and low in carbohydrate, the back yard is much easier to clean…

[Zach M]

Thanks for the answers. I was planning on mixing the duck and turkey and sardine recipes with the wellness core large breed. I have to ask, is that okay? And is the large breed ok for a 50-55 pound dog?

[cindy q]

Thanks so much for all the info Barbara O! can I ask what kibble you mix primal with?

[Dori]

Wow Barbara O. Very impressive background you have. Love all the different animals you have been able to help also. My question is what digestive enzyme do you add to Primal Raw (I also feed Primal Raw to my three dogs)? How often do you add it to their meals? I feed them twice a day. Do you feed any other commercial raw diets to your dogs and do you rotate your proteins as well as brands? Thanks.

[Barbara O]

If you’ll read, I believe they have a digestive enzyme…I feed twice a day also…but I either add in the AM or the PM….He gets his salmon oil in the mornings…I usually give him his glucosamine in the evening…I was giving him Costco pills but he would spit them out so I ordered the dog liquid from Vita Cost…then I discovered I could put the two pills in a jigger of water and they would be completely dissolved by the time I fed…

I rotate my brands….but I always feed grain free to all my animals…including my cats…I have a Maine coon cat and a Savannah…which is a cross between an African cat and a domestic cat…They also get canned food and some Primal..I don’t feed Primal to Roger all the time…because he gets raw bones…If he didn’t get these, he would get some Primal every day…remember, his cousin, the wolf, eats raw meat every day…I’m at work right now but I’ll look at the digestive enzyme I have at home…Toby, my genet, had a case of pancreatitis at Christmas, and I started him on the enzymes after he recovered…I’ll get the name…

I feed the canned Costco no grain dog food mixed in with the kibble, also. It gets a 5…Natural Instinct is wonderful…I fed the grain free by Merrick…can’t think of the name, and he really liked it. I’m feeding a grain free now and I won’t buy it again, but I bought it in a pinch…maybe called Natural Balance…really having to boost it with meat. Tomorrow I will pick up a bag of Costco Grain free salmon….To this I add an egg at each feeding…the perfect protein for both man and beast….I haven’t fed this…my vet said to be careful feeding chicken…you will need to add fat to it…So if I buy Costco, I’ll just buy the salmon or beef grain free and add more protein…since it is a plant based feed…The vet said it is a good feed, though…better than most and very budget friendly…of course, I spend the difference on the things I add…I like Taste of the Wild….it is a 4 and is plant based, though many of the vets here love it…and Danes need to keep watch on the protein due to their size and joints…they grow awfully fast, and Roger is about a year old. He has never had a problem with me just switching brands..no stomach upsets, etc…Just use common sense and ask yourself, would I want someone to switch my diet around all the time? I’ve been taking in orphan animals, raising wildlife, doing wildlife rehab work since I was about 16 or 17, and that’s a long, long time. If I ever learn how to post pictures on this site, will send some before and after pics of the Danes I’ve rescued…and will send a pic of the fennecs and our little Tasmanian monster, Toby the genet.

[Barbara O]

Yes…you can feed Primal with just about anything…And…I think the large animal feed is mostly the size of the biscuit…look at the back of the package and compare the medium/large size analysis…I think they’re the same…I know for little dogs, the bites are much smaller…like a cat’s size. My friend mixes her Duck Primal with her kibble…her dog is on medication which is costly…prone to seizures, etc…and this food has given her a 2nd life…much more energy, walks twice a day…and is ready to go, even our AZ heat….

Oh…I also feed Nature’s Instinct raw food, as well. The reason I stick with the Primal for Toby is due to the veggies in it…he won’t eat fruit or veggies…so I sneak them into his diet this way…You can find Natural Instinct frozen, when you cannot find the Primal.. I bought it in my home town in Texas, but they didn’t have Primal…and it’s very good…so don’t be afraid to feed it…you can probably feed a little frozen mixed veggies…you dog will pass the corn whole but the other veggies will be mostly digested…you can feed a little apple, also. My vet has had me add cottage cheese…don’t go overboard and plain Greek Yogurt……as well as Kefir…plain…this will help with digestion,.

[cindy q]

Barbara, my dogs (standard poodle 10 mos. & toy poodle 9 years) love grrek yogurt & cottage cheese I only feed them a little bit the standard about a tablespoon and the toy about a teaspoon a few times a week. Is this something they can have everyday?

[Barbara O]

My vet says it is…the female Danes I had would eat it anytime I would give it to them…Roger won’t eat it…Any time I’ve had a dog with problems…the vet would always recommend these two things, as well as aloe vera…I don’t use low fat or nonfat because dogs, like us need fat…One of the problems with most dry food is that they are lacking in good fats…mostly cheap Omega 6s instead of good quality omega 3s…

My vet would have me put small amounts the periphery of the bowl…I would do cottage one time and then greek yogurt the next. i also fed broccoli, cauliflower, fresh or frozen…Some of the girls loved apples…and pears…Their kibble was the base and then i would add somewhere between 1/2 to 1 cup of fruits and veggies to each meal…If you could see the before and after pics you wouldn’t believe they were the same dogs…they came to me and to other rescue workers emaciated…you count every rib…one looked like someone had stretched hide over a skeleton…I refused to crate them..they tore up my back yard, but who cares…they played, got exercise and bonded…they went on to forever homes where people wanted them and loved them…these gentle giants are such good companions…

Dont worry about feeding your dog something it loves…just don’t overboard, which we all tend to do…If you think the dog is reacting to it, then back off a little and don’t feed it as often….or as much…Sounds you’re doing such a good job…it’s amazing to see some of the foods our dogs grow to love….

[cindy q]

Thankd so much for sharing Barbara.

[Barbara O]

You are so welcome. Please realize that I’m not that smart…it’s called being older and learning from experience and reading…asking questions like you do…and using common horse sense when ruminating over the answers that people give you. I give a great deal of credence to people who have been around the block a few times and who spend time reading between the lines…Remember…anyone can put stuff in print on the internet…I love books that are the printed word. When Toby developed pancreatitis, between my vet and a book I have on hand, we pulled him through. I wouldn’t be without the book…It at least tells me what to do at home while I’m waiting to get an animal to the vet’s office…and some good tips after I go…I learned that we have to keep them hydrated but at the same time keep the pancreas still and not taxing itself….It was Christmas Day when Toby got sick…so we’ve come a long way and we’ve had no more problems…and it was my fault that he got sick. I had fixed a standing rib roast for Christmas and left the pan on top of the cabinet…the grease cooled and rose to the top…I had put water in the pan…I had a sick rescue Dane and hadn’t washed the pan…Toby got on top of the sink….genets can climb anywhere…and swished his tail in the pan, covering his long, long tail in the grease…these animals are fastidious..so he immediately went to cleaning it… When i finally set down after getting Mandy the dog stabilized and medicated…she had a UTI…he jumped into my lap and i felt the wet, greasy feeling tail….he had consumed all that grease…too, too much for a little 3 to 4 lb animal….The next morning he was lethargic…we saw the vet that day and he was started on meds…then we went back and they had to put 50 ccs of fluid under his skin…it took three of us to hold him down in a tube that was meant to do this…it was then i learned how to give him a teaspoon of water every hour on the hour to keep him hydrated, interspersed with a teaspoon of blended food….several times a day….My husband and I had tried to keep him hydrated with 10 ccs subcu but couldn’t hold him down….strong little cuss…first animal I haven’t been able to hold down…As I said, he can be a little Tasmanian devil….I hydrated the Dane with no problem….

Every day I learn something new…that’s why I love sites like this…It helps me tweak what I do for my own animals and it also helps me know what I’m doing right, that has worked for years and years…when something works, your animal is healthy and happy…don’t change what you’re doing…Our animals are individuals…I can’t eat wheat…developed a problem with it…causes horrible arthritis in me…I also know this hasn’t always been the case…same way with chicken…developed something called polymyalgia…docs sent me to rheumatoid clinic at our teaching hospital here…not rheumatoid arthritis so they gave it this fancy name…found out it was being caused by chicken…I was eating it almost every day…I was the one who found the connection…not the docs, just me…case in point….you know your animals better than anyone else…I told one person I won’t feed Purina…had a bad experience with it…not the quality I want for my animals…but that doesn’t mean that others have the same results…From my animal science degree, the various vet courses I’ve taken, and from working with various animals and exotic vets across the US, I have learned a great deal….All I can do is try to put together what I’ve learned to care for what the animals I’ve been blessed to have…I’m seeing too many animals with allergies…something is going on…and I’m seeing these allergies in animals on kibble, raw diets….etc…It’s so hard for me to believe this is a permanent situation….I would start questioning the surrounding environment…not something an individual may be doing but what the animal is coming in contact with that’s not food related…that’s how my allergies started…I cleaned up my environment, cleaned up my diet, starting building my immune system, and now my allergies are almost non-existent. Hopefully, this will happen to the animals out there that are suffering…

[Zach M]

Good and bad news. My dog didnt eat her primal duck recipe after it had thawed for 6 hours. She did though eat the primal after it had only thawed for two hours in the fridge. I know it is not safe to feed still frozen recipe. Would it be ok if i let it thawed for a couple hours and then giving it to her because she likes the crunchiness. Thanks ia advance everyone.

[Barbara O]

No problem…Toby doesn’t like me to thaw his…I put it in his bowl in his cage…The little Tasmanian devil has to be caged at night or we wouldn’t get to sleep…I put his favorite lunch meat from Trader Joes in the bowl along with two little rectangles of frozen Primal..As soon as it where he likes it, he eats it. In the morning, when I let him out of his cage, his dish has been licked clean…have been doing this for over a year.

[Zach M]

Thanks Barbara. You’ve helped a lot with this issue. I do have another question. Would the freeze dried be harder and more like a biscuit? Would I also HAVE to re hydrate it? Thanks for all he help guys.

[Dori]

Hi Zach M. Not Barbara but I’d like to help as Primal is in my rotation. The freeze dried which is more expensive than the raw due to processing it’s great for traveling or hiking and camping with your dog. Yes the freeze dried has all the moisture removed and they are more like a biscuit. You have to rehydrate with some warm water and wait just a couple of minutes of so. I keep some on hand for the days that I have forgotten to defrost raw, or thought I had put some in the refrigerator but nope. still in the freezer. All three of my dogs love the freeze dried just as much as the raw. It’s the same product just without the water. You really want to rehydrate the freeze dried before feeding. You do not want to feed it dry and have it expand in their stomachs from moisture in their body. Not a good idea at all.

[Zach M]

Thanks Dori. I never thought of it expanding. My dog wasnt crazy about the mushy frozen raw though. I really dont know what to do then. I wonder if i could crumble it on her kibble? We will see.

[Dori]

Hi Zach. You can crumble it on her kibble but you still need to add water then to the entire meal. Most of the long time posters suggest that if feeding kibble you should add water to it anyway. The issue has always been with the lack of hydration eating dry foods for dogs. Some of the larger dogs especially if they gulp their dry food down quickly can be subject to bloat. Don’t forget that the dry food (without water added) will also expand in the dog after it’s been eaten. I hope I’m explaining this correctly or at least making myself understandable.

As Barbara mentioned, you don’t have to defrost raw food all the way. I only defrost enough so that I can mush in and disguise one of my dogs medications. They like it a little colder and crunchier. I’ve been feeding it this way (all raw) for over a couple of years. I have three small dogs and it’s never harmed them to eat it cold. They also like crunching on ice cubes so maybe that’s why they like their food a bit colder and harder.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Dori.

[Zach M]

Yeah. My dog likes crunch not mush. Thank you for your time

[Dori]

Zach. You’re very welcome. Anytime I can help I’d be glad to. Yep! My dogs like crunchier rather than mush. That’s the reason I can’t feed canned foods. Too mushy for them. Good Luck and let us know how it all works out and what you decided to do.

[Author]

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