[crazy4cats]

Interesting article, Aimee. I wish there was an easy way to decipher what is in the can!

[crazy4cats]

Check out this link about corn gluten: https://taurinedcm.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Debunking-Myths-around-Corn-Gluten-Meal_FINAL.pdf

[crazy4cats]

To me, it looks like companies that are jumping on the band wagon trying to get a piece of the pie without having the proper credentials to formulate food. Most of the companies named do not have board-certified veterinary nutritionists on their staff and do not testing or feeding trials. They are using untested ingredients together that are not providing the necessary nutrients and amino acids to our dogs to keep their hearts healthy. It’s not just about ingredients. It is about the whole nutrient package. It apparently is more complicated than I once believed.

Companies like Diamond and Champion certainly have enough resources to hire experts and donate money or do their own research. Yet, they don’t and are making food that is potentially killing our dogs. I wouldn’t be surprised if cats are not far behind!

[crazy4cats]

Yeah, and just a few weeks before that, the list contained many of the foods on the FDAs report. You clearly cannot tell the quality of the food by the ingredient label. You need to find a brand you trust. I would not and do not trust the ratings on this site.

[crazy4cats]

Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach!

[crazy4cats]

I just visited their website. It would cost $560 per month to feed my two large dogs. Their recipes are full of potatoes, both sweet and white, chickpeas and lentils. Who are their top veterinary nutritionists?

Their food does look delicious to me, but wondering if appropriate for dogs.

[crazy4cats]

Have you tried buying smaller bags? Maybe he is hyper sensitive to the food at the bottom being stale or rancid. My dogs love eating grass and there is nothing wrong with them. I am on a DCM Facebook site where thousands are switching to Purina ProPlan Sensitive Salmon with excellent results. I feed mine Purina PP Large Breed Weight Management and I couldn’t be happier. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Eric!
You are correct! Your new pup should be on a large breed puppy formula to ensure the correct calcium and phosphorus to protect those growing joints. Purina Does have excellent lrg brd puppy formulas. They have a team of experts that have done feeding trials from birth til death on large breeds.

Fromm does not and has not employed a board certified veterinarian for years. Nor do they do feeding trials.

Royal Canin, Eukanuba and Iams are also excellent choices for large breed puppy formulas. I have two golden labs and feed them Purina ProPlan Weight Management.

Check out Chewy.com for all their formulas. Even if you do not order from them, they have a good search feature.

Have fun with that new bundle of joy! He is going to keep you busy!

[crazy4cats]

Fromm is also being implicated with causing DCM (both with and without grain) in Dr. Stern’s peer-reviews study and a group of veterinarians that are keeping track of the foods that are being fed when dogs are diagnosed. Zignature and Acana have the most cases so far. Fromm a pretty close third.

Check out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TaurineDCM/

I feed my two Lab/Golden mix dogs Purina ProPlan Large Breed Weight Management with great results. It has 374 calories per cup, but is fairly low in fat and a little higher in fiber. They have several formulas that might work for you. The ProPlan salmon formula is a little higher in calories, but the Purina One Salmon may be a little lower.

Make sure you measure out the food carefully and cut back on treats. Royal Canin has large breed formulas that are lower in calories as well. Good idea to keep his weight down now. It is a lot easier on the joints and could possibly lead to a longer life if there are no other health conditions. Best wishes!

[crazy4cats]

I consider my dogs to have sensitive systems, maybe even a touch of colitis. They do better with higher fiber. That is why I’m surprised that sensitive digestion formulas are almost always lower than average in fiber. Any thoughts on this, Aimee?

[crazy4cats]

Aimee-
Very interesting study. Makes me want to look for a food with oat groats! I imagine after the grinding and cooking of all the ingredients, it makes them more digestible as well as making the nutrients they contain more readily available.

Good stuff! 😊

[crazy4cats]

I guess the main thing I take from the WSAVA recommendations is that you need to check out the company who is making the dog food you purchase. Regardless if they can meet all the recommendations or not. Choose the ones that are important to you. You really cannot tell the quality of a dog food by the ingredient label. I’m done now.

[crazy4cats]

This is a good example why you cannot judge a food by the ingredient label. You don’t know how the ingredients are processed, how they all work together, how much of each is in the food nor the quality of them.

You need to choose a food from a company that you trust knows how to do all of the above appropriately.

[crazy4cats]

Amen, Sister BDog!

[crazy4cats]

https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

Above is the link to WSAVA’s recommendations to select dog food. Wondering which of the recommendations you two don’t think is important? As you have stated, they do not make any specific brand recommendations, just helpful advice for consumers to choose a food.

Also, can you tell me why companies such as Champion, Fromm, Diamond and others do not do their own or contribute to any type of research or testing. Wouldn’t you rather the brand you choose have done some controlled feeding trials to determine the digestibility of their formulas rather than on your dogs? It’s not like these are small ma and pa companies.

I praise the big companies for parting with some of their profits to help fund research veterinary schools.

I hope you find a safe food that works for your dogs.

[crazy4cats]

Hmmm? Anon, I thought you were against meaningless asymptomatic screenings. 🤔

[crazy4cats]

I agree! And, I used to look at them. But, thankfully, now I know better!

Seven Dog Pages You Need To Stop Linking To:
https://www.thedodo.com/five-dog-pages-you-need-to-stop-linking-to-1091066497.html

[crazy4cats]

Try contacting American Pet Nutrition. They make PetSmart’s Authority brand.

http://www.anibrands.com/

[crazy4cats]

Ok, Joanne, those are two complaints out of millions of bags of Purina sold. These problems are most likely happening at the storage facility or at the home.

I’ve been feeding it consistently now for about 10 months. I have bought it from Petco, PetSmart and/or Chewy. Never once have I had any bugs in their kibble.

In fact, I’ve never had any bugs in any bag of kibble of any brand in the over 30 years that I’ve had dogs and cats. It really sounds like you are looking for a reason not to feed Purina to me. Don’t feed it then. Feed something that you are comfortable with the brand’s history and and manufacturing practices. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Christine-

That write up is full of falsehoods. What credentials does the writer have? Do they sell pet food?

I think it just says what you wanted to hear. I’d rather stick with the scientists researching this issue’s facts .

[crazy4cats]

Don’t worry about the DFA star rating! Especially not for a dog with a medical condition. I feed my dogs Purina ProPlan Large Breed Weight Management. I feel that it should be rated a 10 for my dogs.

I don’t agree with the rating system on this site. You can use the information to rate the food however you want. Purina is a good company that has been around for years. They use a team of experts to formulate their food. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

My cat had a urinary blockage with struvite crystals. He’s been on Royal Canin Rx food ever since. He is doing great!

[crazy4cats]

If you think it is the fiber in the Cheerios that is helping, you could try adding a little plain canned pumpkin. But, you want to be careful not to add too many unbalanced things to your dog’s diet. Only 10 to 15% of calories should be unbalanced toppers and treats. You could be feeding a little too much too. That will sometimes cause loose stools.

Also, I believe Orijen is a very rich grain free diet. I’m surprised you would feed it to a dog with a tendency to have pancreatitis. In addition, have you seen the FDA warning about grain free boutique foods?

It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy

Best wishes!

[crazy4cats]

Exactly BDog! The fact that those companies are doing their own and donating to research is exactly why I WOULD choose their food to feed my pets. Lack of studies on the other brands makes it hard to know if they are good or not.

The smaller companies are certainly charging enough for their foods that one would think they could afford to contribute to some testing and studies. In addition, employ a team of experts to develop their formulas. But, instead they are using untested “exotic” ingredients that sound yummy to humans but may not being formulated properly for our furries.

[crazy4cats]

The problem with this article is that it is from last August. Since then, it has been discovered that many of the dogs being diagnosed with NM DCM are not deficient in taurine. I hope it gets figured out soon!

[crazy4cats]

Good luck, Joanne. I hope it works out.

[crazy4cats]

She can buy food from whoever she wants. But, Chewy has a great variety and also is a great source for searching for foods.

[crazy4cats]

LOL! You are something else, anon101. You’re welcome, btw, for giving you a heads up on Zignature. At least maybe we helped your dogs out, anyway.

[crazy4cats]

Right here:
https://www.chewy.com/s?rh=c%3A288%2Cc%3A332%2Cc%3A294%2Cbrand_facet%3APurina%2CFoodFlavor%3ABeef

[crazy4cats]

joanne l

Great article! I have not seen this one. It sums it up very nicely. Glad to see the word is getting out. You can choose to believe veterinarians or bloggers who believe they know more than them. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Joanne-

Purina has beef and rice formulas. I have fed a Beneful recipe and I believe there are ProPlan and Purina One beef foods as well.

If you are interested in Victor, write down a list of questions and contact the company who makes it. If you are happy with their responses, then feed it! The WSAVA is trying to stress that it is important to check out the company making your pet’s food. You cannot tell enough by ingredient panels. It’s impossible to know the quality of the ingredients and how much of each are actually in the food. I have no idea how ingredients work together to keep a dog healthy. I’m trusting the companies who employ experts and do feed trials.

Btw. WSAVA does not approve foods. They have a list of recommendations for pet food manufacturers to follow.

I really hope that there are other foods that are “safe” to feed other than the Purina, Hills, RC, Iams and Eukanuba. But, it is up to the other brands to prove it to me. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Again, some grains contain the precursors that dogs need to synthesize taurine on their own. So, yes, they can be very important. All the ingredients need to work together to make a complete nutrient package.

And, again, and most important, most of the dogs being diagnosed are NOT taurine deficient. So, your continued recommendation of feeding foods high in meat content is not necessarily a fix.

Any company can choose to part with some of their profits and hire a team of experts, do some research and controlled feed trials. There is no one stopping them.

Veterinary nutritionists have years of education. They should be shown some respect.

[crazy4cats]

Have you tried Friskies or Fancy Feast? I didn’t think any cats could resist these.

I have a fountain for my cats to encourage drinking. There is something about running water that attracts cats. They also like to drink from the kitchen faucet.

If you feed a kibble that is formulated for urinary issues, that would help also. I would feed one made by Royal Canin, Purina, Iams or Hills. I think they all have urinary formulas. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

People seem to forget that dogs are able to synthesize their own taurine if the proper precursors are included in their food. People also forget that many of the dogs being diagnosed with diet related DCM are not deficient in taurine. There is something else going on that has not been discovered yet . Maybe some type of toxicity.

Some people should do some research and listen to the experts who are researching this issue rather than forming their own conclusions without the proper facts or education.

[crazy4cats]

I have been a member of the group for about 9 months. They actually had a raw feeder as a moderator for a while and there still might be another. They recommend if you feed raw or homemade to work with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist. And, they have a list of them to contact.

They don’t bash any foods. They just ask that no one recommend a brand that is not in compliance with the WSAVA recommendations. It’s all spelled out and you have to agree to these terms to join.

Yes, there have been dogs diagnosed with nutritional mediated DCM that were raw fed.

[crazy4cats]

Not sure if you guys saw this link:

https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.253.11.1390

Hopefully, they are getting closer to what is going on.

[crazy4cats]

I believe it was Cesar’s Canned Dog Food. Not under the RC umbrella.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Hannah O-

I only have experience with struvite crystals. They can be dissolved, the oxalate ones cannot.

I feed my cat that has experienced a blockage an Royal Canin Rx Diet. It has an S/O index, which is supposed to help prevent both types of crystal/stones. I would imagine they would have a similar formula for dogs. Does your dog have a urinary tract infection? Often with dogs, they coincide with crystals.

Below is a link that may be helpful. I’m sure it is stressful. What is your vet recommending?

https://www.vetmed.umn.edu/centers-programs/minnesota-urolith-center/urolith-analysis/treatment-recommendations

[crazy4cats]

Hey look guys!

SkepVet gives nutrition resources for pet owners! Surprise, surprise! Look who is first on the list!

Nutrition Resources for Pet Owners

[crazy4cats]

Ruby H-
Even if the food had anything to do with it, which I doubt, we need to put the blame on the company making it. Not on you!!

I’m very sorry to hear about your pup. It is so hard when they pass. Especially, when they can’t talk and tell us what is going on with them. Definitely, the hardest part of owning them. But, I will still always have one or two, (or three!)

Unfortunately, there have been a few dogs diagnosed with diet-related DCM that were being fed raw. Are you working with a veterinarian nutritionist? The FB group I provided below has a link for raw feeders to certified animal nutritionists that work with people who feed raw.

The article that Anon posted is not SkeptVet’s latest on the subject. This one is: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/12/evidence-update-grain-free-and-other-beg-diets-associated-with-heart-disease-in-dogs/

I have golden labs and joined a FB group run by mostly veterinarians that are following the science-based facts regarding this very subject. Check it out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TaurineDCM/

The also have a website with helpful information: https://taurinedcm.org/

Surprisingly, I switched to Purina ProPlan and my dogs are doing great. They had an echocardiogram a few weeks ago after having been fed it for about 8 months and they are fine. Thank goodness!

Hope this helps!

[crazy4cats]

The veterinarians I follow have not given any medical advice regarding any medical condition. Yes, that would be unethical. Recommending a food that follows the WSAVA guidelines is not.

[crazy4cats]

Anon-
Go ahead and feed Fromm. Chances are your dog/s will be fine. However, this is Joanne’s thread.
I am answering HER questions. I have looked into Fromm. I have kept up to date on all the current information from all of the science-based experts investigating regarding the recent increase of dogs being diagnosed with DCM.

Fromm is definitely a boutique food according to Lisa Freeman’s (veterinary nutritionist) definition. I do not believe they follow any of the WSAVA recommendations. Actually, I think they do have their own manufacturing facility. However, they use exotic ingredients that are new to the industry and are not tested. They have dogs that have been diagnosed with DCM while eating it and got better when fed something else.

Check out Dr. Joshua Stern’s (UC Davis) peer-reviewed study for the proof.

Some people smoke and don’t get cancer, some dogs eat boutique foods and don’t get DCM. I’m not taking the chance!

Again, go ahead and feed it!

[crazy4cats]

Yes, they probably are asking for donations. However, you do not have to donate to follow their guidelines. Shame on these boutique companies who are not putting any of their profits into hiring a team of experts or doing any feeding trials! Hmmmm?
No thanks!

[crazy4cats]

anon101-
It’s really not about the big four to me. It’s about meeting the WSAVA guidelines. Namely, employing a team of experts, including a full-time board-certified veterinary nutritionist and doing feeding trials. The “big four” go over and above the AAFCO requirements in this area.

joannel- You are correct. Toxicity is one of the possibilities the researchers (FDA and several veterinary colleges) are looking into. You may find this interesting: https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.253.11.1390

[crazy4cats]

Have they done a feed trial on their new fabulous food? They do not have a board-certified veterinary nutritionist on staff. I just checked last week.

Most importantly, they have several cases of diet-related DCM. These dogs got better when they changed their diet. If they cannot formulate a grain free recipe correctly, I don’t trust that their recipes with grain are any better.

Hey, this is coming from someone who used to feed it and am disappointed I had to switch. But, it’s not worth the risk in my opinion. I don’t really understand how people can become so attached to a dog food?

[crazy4cats]

I don’t really know how involved Purina is other than financially. I’ve been following the FB group that Marie mentioned. They don’t include them in their list of foods that they have found to be WSAVA compliant. You could always email them and ask them directly. I was also feeding their Whole Earth Farms line and will not be feeding it any longer either. I feel that I can rotate between only a couple of kibbles, but switch up the toppers for variety. (Mostly canned and maybe some fresh chicken, fish and/ or eggs now and then too. They are doing great on PPP Focus kibble and canned!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne-
I no longer feed Fromm either. Too bad I thought I found a food that they did well on to put in their rotation. I wasn’t feeding a grain free formula, but it was very high in fiber. One of the things that researchers say may be connected to DCM. In addition, I’ve learned that they do not employ a veterinary nutritionist and haven’t for a long tome, if ever. To top it off, as Marie stated, one study links them to nutritional-mediated DCM.

I’m sticking with the foods that meet the WSAVA guidelines.

[crazy4cats]

Joanne-
You could always purchase a ProPlan Beef canned food to feed as a topper. I buy the ProPlan Large Breed Beef and Rice canned and put a couple of TBS mixed in their food. They love it. Bad thing is, you may get the stink eye if it’s not on the food when they get used to it.

[crazy4cats]

JRS-
They actually have a chart that lists the brands that have been submitted to them from dogs that have diet-related DCM. They do not list the actual formula because they said it’s tough to include them on their chart. For example, many of Acana’s Formulas have been implicated. It’s hard to fit them all in. Therefore, they just list the brand. They have to submit the actual results of their echo and then they have to wait and see if they recover with a food change before they are entered on the chart. I believe Fromm has had a few reported that may not have been grain free.

They might delete your question because it’s been asked before, but I doubt they would ban you. Remember, this chart is only a group community “project”. It is not what is reported to the FDA and only a small percentage of all the dogs. I hope they are being reported to the FDA by the owners.

[crazy4cats]

I’ve been having a hard time finding a beef recipe to. I have fed one of the Beneful recipes, but I think it might have chicken or poultry By-Product in it.

Not sure why the other brands do not make many or any beef formulas?

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