[joanne l]

I did not try Purina yet, I did some research and found a lot of bad reviews. A lot of people said bugs, worms and maggots found in the food. Some others were saying their dogs got very sick, throwing up and diarrhea. If it was just a couple I would chalk it up to maybe some dogs can’t tolerant it, but there are too many saying the same thing. Of course I seen good reviews as well, but all the bad ones have me nervous to try it. Did anyone hear of this?? This doesn’t make me feel comfortable.

[joanne l]

https://fox13now.com/2017/03/30/purina-responds-after-utah-family-finds-full-bag-of-maggots-in-pet-food/
check this out.

[joanne l]

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/florida-man-finds-maggots-in-dog-food/67-510991589

[crazy4cats]

Ok, Joanne, those are two complaints out of millions of bags of Purina sold. These problems are most likely happening at the storage facility or at the home.

I’ve been feeding it consistently now for about 10 months. I have bought it from Petco, PetSmart and/or Chewy. Never once have I had any bugs in their kibble.

In fact, I’ve never had any bugs in any bag of kibble of any brand in the over 30 years that I’ve had dogs and cats. It really sounds like you are looking for a reason not to feed Purina to me. Don’t feed it then. Feed something that you are comfortable with the brand’s history and and manufacturing practices. Good luck!

[aimee]

Hi joanne,

I’ve fed Purina for for about 20 years now and have never had insect infestation in any of the bags I’ve purchased over the years.

On the other hand it wouldn’t surprise me that you’ll get many hits if you search “Purina and worms or bugs” because of the large volume is sold. If there is a one in a million problem and 100 million units sold that makes for 100 problems vs a company with smaller distribution of 500,000 units will only experience the one in a million problem once every 2 years.

Insect activity is a post production problem often related to storage both at the distribution center and in the home.

The same reasoning applies to reports of illness. The greater the population using a product the more reports of illness which may or may not be related to the product will be reported.

[Bobby dog]

You should have seen the worms in the box of raisins I bought a few months ago…

Quick search on Amazon and I found four complaints about worms and making dogs sick for Wellness kibble. I didn’t bother looking at the rest of the pages just the first one. That’s just one recipe from Wellness.

[joanne l]

Ha Ha, I am glad to see some humor in this. b/c I can’t. I guess I get paranoid what can I say. But the only way of knowing is to feed it to the dog and hope it works. I know he can’t eat the pro plan can food.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by joanne l.

[Sanne]

You keep bringing this up. I explained to you why you might find bugs in dry food and now you have two more people who have also explained it to you. I don’t get it. Why do you keep bringing it up? Move on and feed something you are comfortable with instead of dwelling on one single brand. It is confusing

[Bobby dog]

No humor, it really happened. Food storage issues somewhere along the food chain. I can say it wasn’t me because I opened the box as soon as I pulled it out of the bag.

Quick search on Amazon and I found four complaints about worms and making dogs sick for Wellness kibble. I didn’t bother looking at the rest of the pages just the first one. That’s just one recipe from Wellness.

[anonymous]

Nothing wrong with any dog food that meets AAFCO requirements, that includes Purina.

It depends on what agrees with your dog and of course the latest recommendations by the FDA to avoid grain free, boutique foods and exotic ingredients.
Consult your vet when you go in for annuals, if the labs are good, the weight is good, the stools are good, energy level is good, eyes are bright, skin and hair looks good….then your dog is on the right food for him!

WSAVA’s recommendations are not clear to me, they take donations and membership fees, then why don’t they call the dog food companies themselves and tell us what SPECIFIC BRANDS that they recommend based on their research?
No, they won’t, they know better.

Otherwise everyone is interpreting the guidelines we keep hearing about differently.
They are talking to service reps when they call dog food companies and receiving different responses.

[Bobby dog]

“WSAVA Global Veterinary Community,” what is questionable about membership and donations for an organization comprised of people in the Veterinary field from all over the world? Similar organizations exist in human medicine. There are membership benefits such as continuing education, seminars, access to scientific journals, networking with other Vets from around the world, but one of the things they don’t do is research food or brands. They provide recommendations for Vets and pet owners they feel are important for finding a safe pet food manufacturers not the foods they make.

Here’s the history of WSAVA:

Our History

I require more than a food just meeting AAFCO profiles; I start with the manufacturer. A food my pets’ do well on is important, but mostly I’m looking for a knowledgeable, responsible, and safe pet food manufacturer.

If I communicate with a manufacturer and I get a different answer every time it’s a red flag for me. I don’t fool around with any company that does not directly answer my questions. I pose most of them as yes or no questions to avoid the marketing spiel. If they want to spend five minutes answering a simple yes or no question, it’s time to move on for me.

Getting advice from a Vet that is up to date on current DCM recommendations and research is important; not all are up to date. I had a conversation with a Vet the other day who manufactures food. It was very disappointing and scary they were not up to date and was selling the just add taurine to food will prevent any further illnesses.

I don’t know how it’s possible to interpret WSAVA recommendations other than how they are written. They are clear and concise for helping people find a safe pet food manufacturer.
1. They either employ a full time credentialed nutritionist or they don’t.

2. They know who formulates their food and what their credentials are or they don’t.

3. Do they test foods via food trials or by formulation to meet AAFCO profiles? If by formulation do they meet AAFCO profiles by formulation or analysis of the finished product?

4. They will either tell you where their food is produced and manufactured or they won’t.

5. They either practice safety measures in production, ingredient quality control, and know what they are or they don’t.

6. They can provide an average/typical nutrient profile or they can’t.

7. What is the caloric value per gram, can, or cup of your food is self-explanatory.

8. They either conduct product research or they don’t. If they do, are the results published in peer reviewed journals is a self-explanatory question as well.

Instead of “hearing about” the recommendations, here they are:
https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

[anonymous]

Why are you becoming hysterical?

Everyone has the right to their own opinions but not their own facts.

I have said over and over again, the recommendations you refer to are vague and have no meaning to me.

Lighten up! There is no perfect dog food that will prevent bad things from happening, now, that is a fact.

If you are happy with Purina that’s great, I prefer another brand of dog food. It’s all good 🙂

[Bobby dog]

No hysteria, just allot of misinformation being posted…breaking down the recommendations might help another reader.

I’ll give you some of your own advice, you can just ignore my posts if you are bothered by them. 😉

As I posted before just looking to provide the safest care for my pets…like walking my dog on a leash in the city.

I never wrote about what brand makes me happy, just discussing misinformation you posted about WSAVA recs… 😉

[Christie B]

I’ve had the worms in the bag of Purina food! I store my food in a plastic container with a lid and I was surprised to randomly find a moth fly out every so often when I opened it to feed my dog. It wasn’t until I got to the bottom of the bag that I finally noticed the small wriggly waxworms crawling about.

So the waxworms turn into Flour or Meal Moths and they generally find their way into food during packaging and storage. It can happen with an brand of food. Each female moth can lay up to 400 eggs. And when the conditions are right, your food is infested with worms. And they eat the food over the course of 2-3 months the chow down on the kibble until they cocoon for 2 weeks and emerge as moths. And the cycle continues.

It’s not a ‘dog food’ issue. Almost every grain silo worldwide has insect issues, including Meal moths. Most are treated with food grade Diatomaceous Earth or something equivalent. It’s not that the food is spoiled. It’s that some insect got dumped into the bag along with the kibble, settled down and decided to have a family.

It only take one female to ruin a bag of food. The worms are harmless, but I wouldn’t make my dog eat them.

Petco did refund me the bag of food.

[Patricia A]

This was an eye opener of the standards to meet AAFCO requirements.
No Proof!

Until recently, I was under a false impression – and no pet food company representative hastened to correct it! I thought if a food had a “nutrient values” claim on its label, its maker would have to submit proof that the food inside the can or bag actually contains nutrients in the required amounts. I guess I assumed the products would be tested by third party laboratories and the results would be filed with state feed control officials.

I was wrong.

The actual requirement is this: A company representative must sign and have notarized an affidavit that states, “This product meets the nutrient levels established in the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for (growth/reproduction, maintenance, or all life stages).” And then they have to keep a copy of that affidavit.

That’s it. Seriously.

No lab test results or analysis of the nutrients confirming that the statement is true are required.

And the affidavit doesn’t even get filed with the state! It just has to be kept “on file” in the company’s own files!

No kidding: The company has to, in effect, pinky swear that their products meet the required nutrient levels. And consumers have to just trust that the products do.

Editorial: I don’t think that’s right. I don’t think that’s sufficient.

Why This Matters

This matters because most dogs get most (if not all) of their nutrients from commercial food. They are a captive audience, literally. They are not free to select their own foods, they can’t follow their instincts to drive them to ingredients that contain any nutrients they may be lacking. What’s more, many owners are warned by their veterinarians and other pet professionals against feeding any table scraps or “human food” to dogs. And pet food companies encourage owners to feed their products and only their products, and to use extreme caution when switching products, lest the dog explode (or something) from diarrhea (or something).

Put another way: If most dogs eat a single type of food and nothing but that food, shouldn’t their owners be able to verify that the food truly contains every nutrient their dogs need?

Raising the Bar

I’ve long believed that, for the reasons above, consumers ought to be able to ask for and readily receive a complete nutrient analysis of their dogs’ food – to make sure that the diet contains adequate (and not excessive) amounts of the nutrients that experts agree dogs need – and that was before I knew that it was possible that products that are labelled as “complete and balanced” might not be.

Last year, we surveyed the dog food companies whose products met our selection criteria and asked this question: “Do you make a complete nutrient analysis for each of your products available to consumers? If so, are the analyses available only upon request, or is this information on your website?” As it turned out, very few of the companies had nutrient analyses readily available, and some of the ones that said they had them available were not able (or perhaps not willing) to produce them.

So, this year, we sent the pet food companies whose products have been on our “approved canned dog food” list an email that said, “There will be one significant change in how we will select and present the ‘approved’ foods on our list. This year, we are asking each company to provide us with a fairly recent (within the past year) ‘typical analysis’ for each of the canned dogs foods that they offer, and we will be comparing the values with the AAFCO nutrient profiles for dogs. If we do not receive the analyses, the foods will not appear on our ‘approved foods’ list this year.”

The Results

A few companies promptly sent us what we asked for, and these companies now constitute our gold-star picks – our top-rated producers of canned foods. See the “2016 Canned Dog Food Review” for a list of these companies.

In contrast, there were other companies we didn’t hear back from. We are more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt; maybe they didn’t receive our email? Maybe our phone message got lost? If they respond in the next few months, we will update their information here.

We heard from a few companies that said they would be happy to get this information to us, but they needed more time. So, for them, too, we’re going to reserve space in the next few issues to update their information.

Quite a few companies sent us something that’s close to what we asked for; quite a few sent us nutrient analyses of their products that were generated by computer software. Different companies use different programs to generate these analyses, but they all work in a similar fashion: The programs are loaded with nutrient values for every dog food ingredient you can dream of, and then a formula for a given dog food is entered – so many pounds of this, so many ounces of that, etc. – and the software calculates the amount of nutrients that will be in the resulting food.

Literally every company has these software-driven analyses – projections, really – of their formulas, because that’s how pet food is formulated today. The concern is, how do these projections pan out when compared to actual laboratory analysis of the nutrients?

We put this question to a number of pet food experts – including formulators and pet food company owners – and the answer was, it depends on a lot of things, including:

How closely the food manufacturer hews to the recipe for the food;
What software is used to analyze the recipe;
Whether or not the software takes into account chemical reactions between ingredients that take place when the food is mixed or cooked – reactions that might cause certain nutrient values to test at different levels than the software would predict; and
Whether the pet food company routinely tests their raw ingredients in a laboratory and enters updated nutrient values for those ingredients into the software.
All of these are reasons why computer-generated analyses might return very different values than a laboratory test of the actual dog food.

So, even though these computer-generated analyses are not exactly what we asked for, we’re going to give the companies that sent them to us the benefit of the doubt, too. For now, they still appear on the list of our “approved canned dog foods” that starting on page 8. If they, too, send us actual laboratory test results for their products, we’ll upgrade their status to our gold-star list in upcoming issues.

But we’re also giving all the companies a heads-up: Only the pet food makers that provide lab analyses of their products will appear on our list of “approved dry dog foods” in the February issue.

[anonymous]

Is this from Susan Thixton’s site again? She is not a veterinarian. She is not a veterinary nutritionist.
A link to the source would be appreciated especially when you quote someone or copy & paste.

The AAFCO https://www.aafco.org/
Discuss your concerns with your vet. Best of luck.

[anonymous]

https://petfood.aafco.org/ excerpt below, click on link for full article

AAFCO does not regulate, test, approve or certify pet foods in any way.

AAFCO establishes the nutritional standards for complete and balanced pet foods, and it is the pet food company’s responsibility to formulate their products according to the appropriate AAFCO standard.

It is the state feed control official’s responsibility in regulating pet food to ensure that the laws and rules established for the protection of companion animals and their custodians are complied with so that only unadulterated, correctly and uniformly labeled pet food products are distributed in the marketplace and a structure for orderly commerce.

[Patricia A]

oops..Sorry for forgetting to post the link. https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/food/why-all-dog-diets-should-meet-aafco-nutrient-guidelines/

[anonymous]

None of the information you provided in your prior comment is in the article you linked to.

Whole Dog Journal is a homeopathic site, so many science based folks would disregard anything they have to say anyway.
Thanks for your opinion.

[Patricia A]

Anon have you ever read articles from the Whole Dog Journal? I don’t believe you have because the site contains a lot of useful up to date articles of all kinds for us pet owners. , if you’re thinking for example they are against vaccinations for example and advocate “”GO HOLISTIC” and no shots you are wrong. I’m just giving an example of what some people think holistic means. It’s also making me annoyed that now they are showing commercials for sedatives for your dogs if they are restless in the car.. Do you agree that now your dog should be drugged for car rides ? Is this science based or profit pharmaceuticall based. Now they’re making the public think we actually NEED to give this to our dogs? Or just maybe instead of giving your dog drugs a more”holistic” approach would be in the best interest of your pet. Maybe this can be an option: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/training/dogs-riding-safely-and-calmly-in-cars/
This is one of hundreds of informative articles also . See below’s articles in Whole Dog Journal is doesn’t sound like voodoo science to me.

Physical Exams for Senior Dogs
Senior Dog April 17, 2018 0
There are a number of ways that we can stay on top of health issues that creep up on our dogs with age. Annual veterinary visits are a staple in every healthy pet’s life. A comprehensive physical exam from nose to tail is step one in picking up clues to underlying concerns at every age, but it becomes even more important in the senior years.
Below is article I was originally referring to with the AAFCO
:https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/19_10/editorial/Ask-for-AAFCO_21528-1.html

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

“Dog Journal is doesn’t sound like voodoo science to me”.

Well it does to me.

https://www.petcarerx.com/article/what-can-i-do-about-my-dogs-anxiety/703 excerpt below
For some dogs, medication to reduce anxiety may be recommended. Dogs can be given anxiety medicine like tranquilizers to help reduce short term stress, such as an airplane flight or noisy construction project near the home that will only last for a certain time. Other pets may need long term medication, like Clomicalm. Anti-anxiety drugs must be prescribed by a veterinarian, and if you choose a homeopathic medicine, be sure to consult your vet beforehand.

Though seeing your pet anxious can be stressful, it is important for pet owners to remain calm during a bout of anxiety. With the right care and treatment, anxiety can be reduced and sometimes treated completely.

Also, some helpful articles here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=dog+anxiety

[anonymous]

Latest Integrative Nonsense from the Integrative Veterinary Care Journal- Spring 2017

excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments.

Alternative medicine practitioners have had a lot of success marketing their methods to the mainstream veterinary profession by obscuring or downplaying the most egregiously unscientific and ridiculous of their beliefs and practices when speaking outside of their own groups. They will often claim an acceptance of scientific evidence, though not to the extent that it overrides their personal experiences or anecdotes. And they will employ the term “integrative medicine” to suggest that they consider all therapies, conventional or alternative, equally and fairly before selecting the right method for each patient. The outwardly reasonable marketing of such integrative medicine can be very effective at convincing reasonable, mostly science-based animal owners and veterinarians to take seriously methods that, when understood fully, are deeply unreasonable and incompatible with science.

[Patricia A]

The Holistic View on Drugs

In his book, The Nature of Animal Healing, noted holistic veterinarian Martin Goldstein, DVM, writes that he has used Anipryl for treating Cushing’s disease. The drug “is reputed to work (for Cushing’s) indirectly by making the dog feel better – a psychological effect that may produce physical improvement.” But after seeing three dogs who suffered “unfortunate side-effects,” he stopped using the treatment.

Lost in the hype over these drugs is whether or not they’re really necessary. Most common illnesses and behavior problems dogs face can be improved with good nutrition, consistent training, and safer, natural remedies. Being advocates for our dogs’ health means not always taking the easy way out, but seeking out the cause of the problem and finding the safest way to help.

As Dr. Peter Breggin, author of Talking Back To Prozac, commented to Newsweek recently, “Instead of meeting our pets’ needs, we’ll just drug them. It used to be that we petted our dogs and hugged our kids. Now we can give both of them a pill instead.”

Without a doubt, there is legitimate medical technology that can help our dogs live longer and healthier lives. But how many of these drugs, like commercial foods and other “miracles” of modern pet care, are for the convenience of humans and not the health of our dogs? In the name of short-term convenience, will we jeopardize our dog’s long-term health with incompletely understood drugs?

[anonymous]

You are listening to too many sources, some are VERY UNRELIABLE.

I will no longer respond to any of your posts, except to correct information that I believe may cause harm to an animal.

Best of luck.

PS: You keep referring to medication as drugs, not cool. Stop spreading negative propaganda.

Homeopathic vets are dangerous! Find out the hard way. Many of us have.

[Patricia A]

“I will no longer respond to any of your posts…”
Thank you very much Anon for not responding to my posts anymore.
By the way my 17 year old dog is on three different PRESCRIPTION”drugs” for mitral valve disease given by my “holistic vet”. Yes holistic vets are doctors by the way.
Definition of Drug in the Merrian Webster dictionary
drug noun
\ ˈdrəg \
Definition of drug (Entry 1 of 3)
1a : a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication
b according to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act
(1) : a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (see FORMULARY sense 3)
(2) : a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease
prescription drugs

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

I guess we have a misunderstanding.
Glad your dog is doing well.
Peace.

[Patricia A]

Peace to you also. Just wanted to add that have had dogs in my home for over 25 years and always took my vets advice regarding their health. However, there have been times they were just outright wrong and caused more harm then good. My first dog was a Doxie. A tough little dog and just wonderful with my two young children at the time. This was over 25 years ago and when my vet said he is due for his shots after a well check up I started questioning if he had my dogs best interest. He was 16 at the time and starting to loose bladder control as well as his appetite. Our visit was REALLY to ask if he feels it might be time and if he was suffering . I am glad I went against his push for the shots. He always had bad reactions to them. The lepto was the culprit that made his face swell so that was discontinued the last year. When I showed concerned that he can no longer receive the lepto my vet said don’t worry since it would be rare for him to actually contact the lepto virus. Anyway we had Pookie for three more months before we decided it was time.Looking at some old VHS videos the other day and so glad we had so many with Pookie always in the middle of everything. Then came my Chloe a rescue Chihuahua. Took her in for a cough and exercise intolerance that came on quickly. This was about 12 years ago. Vet gave X-ray and said pneumonia. Gave us antibiotics and said take her into the steamy shower and tap on her chest to move fluid. He said not to worry. Well by early morning we were rushing her into office and they said hurry to the big hospital emergency 20 minutes away. She was turning blue on her gums and gasping. She died on my lap on the way there. I got a ton of apologies from the “head” vet who owns the business and also from my vet who said “don’t worry just give the antibiotics”. She was 13 and I trusted him that even though my intuition said she looked really sick and she’s 13 withpneumonia and maybe we should take her for another opinion we didn’t. We just put our trust that she’ll be getting better by morning with the two antibiotics already in her. I think they thought we would sue because I got calls all week with the “so very sorry”. Very hard to even think or talk about it without crying again after all these years. Next comes my Hannah. She needed surgery for luxatting Patella. Very common in small breeds with their knees not staying in place . Vet gives all the blood tests before surgery AND her shots. I asked vet if they could be given seperately because the last year she was not right for two weeks after all the shots. He said no they are all in one. So three weeks later take her to the big animal hospital for her surgery and they give another blood test before surgery. Surgeon calls that surgery could not be done because she had hardly any white cell count. Mind you she had a clean bill of health at her checkup and blood work three weeks before. So now she needs a bone marrow test. Results are immune mediated hypo lymphocyte or something like that caused from vaccination. Thank goodness months later her white count went up and got her surgery. She was 8 at the time and I stopped all vaccinations for her. She is the one now that is 17 . At that time I had her and a one other little rescue Loli. I took her in for spaying. She had all her shots and would get the boosters at a year. So vet said she has to have the kennel nasal vaccine before she goes for the spaying . Well within three days this healthy little puppy was coughing, sneezing and had mucous pouring out of her nose . So the vet actually GAVE her a cold to prevent others from catching a cold while she is there. If I would have brought her in for the surgery with that cold she would have infected all the dogs there . Also why give a bad cold to a dog getting surgery. Not only that he knew that I had an immune compromised dog to boot that could catch the cold.
Onward to the present. Hannah was diagnosed with very likely mitral valve disease by stethoscope , breed and of course her age. She developed a cough a few months ago. But to give her the prescription she needed the ultrasound. Vet said ultrasound guy comes in twice a week and I would have to bring her in at 7 in morning and leave her in cage. The cardio/ultrousound Dr. might not be in till late afternoon. So I asked if I could have an estimate so I could bring her in and sit with her in office. I was willing to wait a few hours. I explained to vet she is almost 17 and her heart is very bad. I do NOT want a phone call that she passed in that cage from the stresss without me. Vet said there is no way to know when he will come and if she’s not there he will not wait. I live like five minutes away. All they had to do was call me when he comes in and do the other dogs waiting and I would be there way before he’s ready for her. Well he did not agree to that. So there is NO exception for a very elderly dog who doesn’t have long and give her more stress and fear by waiting all day in a cage. I would have been a wreck waiting for that phone call that she passed and how would I live with that ? After many pleading phone calls the head vet agreed to call me when he’s on the way. They did her last I waited over two hours.. I guess that was my punishment for being a pain but so relieved I didn’t have to leave her waiting in the cage.
Sorry so long but feels good getting all this out. Maybe you can now understand being a little questioning when it comes to SOME practices of SOME vets with my pets.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

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