[Hound Dog Mom]

DoggieDoc22 –

“One last thing, don’t buy into the marketing machine and get all hung up on ingredients. Your dog needs nutrients, not ingredients. Its protein, fat, and carbohydrate levels that are important, not corn, soy, potato, etc.”

Question, if a new meal replacement bar came onto the market for humans that contained all the essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids (synthetically added) a human needs plus adequate levels of protein, fat and carbohydrates and the main ingredients were refined grains, high fructose corn syrup and partially-hydrogenated oil would you quit eating real food and eat this for every meal? I mean it contains the necessary “nutrients”, right? Hopefully that analogy makes you understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Ingredients matter. As I told you on another thread – you can’t put ground chuck into recipe and get filet mignon in the end. Garbage is garbage. Yes, all living things need nutrients but these nutrients (or at least the majority of these nutrients) should be derived from fresh, whole, species-appropriate foods. I’ll give you some food (no pun intended) for thought.

1) Many health organizations (including the U.S. Cancer Institute and the United Kingdom Health Department) advise humans to get their nutrients from whole foods and not synthetic supplements (shouldn’t our pets do the same?). When dealing with synthetic nutrients, the chance for overdose is much higher – chance of overdose is minimal when consuming whole foods. Errors in compounding synthetic concoctions happen and pets die – for example the excess vitamin d recall. You don’t have to worry about there “accidentally” being too much vitamin d when the vitamin d source is real, whole foods.

2) You say that the inclusion of ingredients such as “corn, soy and potato” are inconsequential – what matters it the “guaranteed analysis” of the end result. So a mixture of corn, soy and potato is perfectly fine as long as the protein, fat and carbohydrate levels are where they need to be and the food is pumped up with artificial nutrients to account for the lack of nutrients in the ingredients themselves, right? Well let’s examine these ingredients that you say are fine to feed:

-Soy: contains anti-nutrients which hinder the ability of digestive enzymes needed for proper digestion; contains phytates which limit the body’s ability to absorb key nutrients such as zinc, magnesium and calcium; loaded with isoflavones that disrupt endocrine function and have been linked to infertility and breast cancer (in humans); contains goitrogens which block the synthesis of thyroid hormones; most soy is genetically modified (studies in animals have linked consumption of GMO ingredients to negative hepatic, pancreatic, renal and reproductive side effects that may alter the hematological, biochemical and immunologic parameters).
-Corn: contains lectins, has a high glycemic index, one of the most genetically modified crops (see above), highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.
-Potatoes: also commonly genetically modified (see above), high glycemic index, contain lectins, can contain the toxin solanine.

3) Most of the low-grade foods that contain corn, soy and the like also contain animal by-products. Are animal by-products inherently bad? No – my dogs love fresh organ meat, chicken feet, beef tracheas, etc. (from animals slaughtered for human consumption) and I love allowing them to eat fresh, quality by-products. However fresh quality by-products are not what is in pet food. Many grocery store quality brands of dog food have tested positive for pentobarbital – this means that the by-products contain euthanized animals (potentially even dogs and cats). Pento is recognized as a serious danger to wildlife. Wildlife that feed on disposed euthanized animals often die of pento poisoning – so is this a safe ingredient to be feeding to our beloved pets? I think not. Also – most by-product meals, while undoubtedly high in protein, contain very low quality protein derived from feathers, beaks and the like. This protein is poorly digested and puts a strain on the animals kidneys over time (unlike high quality, digestible protein derived from fresh meat).

Your view of pet food ingredients is simplistic, to say the least. It’s necessary to look at the bigger picture, food isn’t as simple as “fat, protein and carbohydrates.”

[DieselJunki]

So we will be moving to Nashville shortly, possibly in the next 2 weeks or less for the next job. I found what seems to be an excellent facility over the internet. Of course I haven’t been to check it out yet. However Moose MUST have ALL is vaccines: RABIES, DISTEMPER (Dhlpp), PARVO, and BORDETELLA. Moose doesn’t go for his rabies until the beginning of March and doesn’t go for his last Distemper ect. until the end of Feb. Is there a possibility that they will do those last 2 shots he needs sooner? Or do you really need to wait a full month before giving his last series in his puppy shots and then another month to give the rabies?

Now I called and they said as long as he has all his shots they don’t require them to be neutered. Which is good because poor Moose only has one testicle that has dropped. Moose ins’t due to be neutered until May but if his other testicle doesn’t show up from being MIA we are most likely looking at him being a year before they neuter.

I do plan on doing puppy classes but haven’t looked into that as much as I have the daycare so I am not sure if they require all the things that a doggy daycare would.

I really really really want to get him into some kind of doggy daycare asap. Even though I am home everyday for now taking care of him and such I really want him to get the benefits of socialization in a daycare program. They even have a stay and learn, so they train him while he is staying there. I am so afraid because people say that the best time to socialize is up to 12 or 14 weeks of age. Well Moose has been introduced to some other dogs but they were all much older and I really didn’t know anything about them and they seemed nervous with how excited he was so he was just allowed to sniff but not get near them.

My problem is I don’t have friends near me because I travel all the darn time, so I don’t have anyone with dogs, cats or kids that I can get Moose to interact with that I trust. I take him to the pet store every chance I get, even if I’m just going to pick up some ferret food. He loves seeing people. He seems to love seeing other dogs/puppies too but when I go to the petstore there aren’t other dogs there all the time that he can interact with.

I will admit, I am not quite sure how to train a puppy, I am just now finally having a break through with his constant nipping after doing a bit of reading online. When playing if he decides to bite I say “ouch!” very loudly and get up and go behind a door and close it, wait 15 seconds, then come out all excited and begin playing. This seems to be working. Thank goodness! Puppy teeth hurt! But this is why I want to get him into a daycare stay and learn program so badly. So I will have a foundation to work with him on. I am trying to teach him to sit and shush before I put his food bowl down, but right now I of course he doesn’t know sit. So I try to wait out his barking and wait until he sits and looks at me before setting it down. Which it seems like he’ll never stop barking so that has been unsuccessful so far.

I just don’t want to create a 120lb monster when he grows up. I want him to be well mannered and people make it seem like if I don’t get him into a class and get him socialized before 14 weeks then it’s over and I’ll have an pet aggressive, cabinet eating, floor peeing 120lb monster.

[DoggieDoc22]

The thing that you have to keep in mind is that you should only be using these reviews as a guide, not as gospel. Basically all of the reviews are based upon reading the information that can be found on the packaging, and writing review about that. All of that information can be drastically skewed by dog food manufacturers. For example, ingredients are listed on the ingredient deck in order of weight, including water. So an ingredient such as whole chicken (which contains a lot of water weight), is going to show up higher on an ingredient deck than chicken meal, even though there may be a larger volume of chicken meal in the diet. Also, some manufacturers will use several different types of carbohydrates in their diets, rather than using just one to alter the ingredient deck. This can be done intentionally to prevent any individual source of carbs from appearing high on the ingredient deck.

One other important aspect to keep in mind is whether a company manufactures their own foods, conducts feeding trials, or researches the diets they come out with. Blue Buffalo is a huge culprit of this. They have a 5 star rating on DFA because their diets are high in protein and grain free (traits which DFA seems to value highly). However, what you don’t see is that all of their diets are produced at copacking facilities which can lead to inconsistency in quality, the inability to control the quality of the ingredients that are actually used to manufacture the food, and exposure to contaminants (ie the Diamond recall early last year). Also, DFA doesn’t mention that Blue Buffalo does not conduct feeding trials, or do any type of research on their diets. These facts should lead to a lower rating for a food like Blue Buffalo, but are simply overlooked by dogfoodadvisor.

One last thing, don’t buy into the marketing machine and get all hung up on ingredients. Your dog needs nutrients, not ingredients. Its protein, fat, and carbohydrate levels that are important, not corn, soy, potato, etc.

[stampede334]

Hi-
I think you are dead on right with low protein diet can be harmful! From what I read from other readers that have dogs with kidney issues…..they all pretty said the same thing…it has nothing to do with protein…you just need to watch the phosphorus intake!
From what I am reading….I think I would get rid of Hills Prescription k/d dog food. It is NOT a good dog food. Feed your dog grain free/high protein good quality dog food.
Do some research on dog food first and go from there!
Hope this helps!!! If I find more information…I will let you know!!!

[DieselJunki]

I had this very same issue last week! Here is my thread on it that had some very good answers.
/forums/topic/crooked-leg-to-much-protein/

First off I found that I was feeding a food that was WAY to high in calcium for a large breed puppy (I have an American Bull Dog). A Great Dane, being a large breed puppy needs a food that has the appropriate calcium levels. I recommend reading Hound Dog Moms thread on Large and Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition ( /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ )

Here is a link on calcium level appropriate foods for large breed dogs https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc . Hound Dog Mom also put this list together. It is in the form of a google document and you have to download it. Don’t be alarmed I promise there are no viruses in it as I have downloaded and looked at it myself. It has helped ALOT.

I did end up taking my puppy (who was 9 weeks at the time) to the vet and they thought he had shifted his growth plate when they looked at his x-rays. This was on a Friday. They put a splint on him to keep him from damaging it further and sent me to an orthopedic surgeon which I went to on Monday. When the orthopedic surgeon took the splint off to look his leg was normal, there was no sign of knuckling over at all. They took another x-ray and said he was absolutely fine. They said that perhaps the way the x-ray was angled at my vets office it made it look like it had shifted. But I gotta say in the short time he wore that splint I believe it fixed his knuckling over.

All in all I would suggest a trip to your vets office just to rule out anything being broken or out of place. After all, it’s better to catch these things now when they are fixable than to wait and have your puppies leg permanently damaged.

Hope I helped and I hope your puppies leg gets better! Keep us posted!

[DieselJunki]

Thanks for the advice Shelties Mom. I will definitely do some research on that.

He is an American Bull Dog (So part of the bully group) but as puppies they do look quite like Pit Bulls. He has papers and everything stating he is a pure bred American Bull Dog. I actually had a gentleman in Petco last week tell me that if I was me I wouldn’t be bringing that thing into stores and referred to Moose as a Pit Bull. I was sure to give him a piece of my mind and educate him on the fact that my dog wasn’t a Pit and even if he was he had a lot of nerve speaking to me like that. Some people…

I’ll see if any stores sell Kefir around here. Looking it up it sounds like it would be a great addition to his diet. If I can’t I’ll go ahead and get some Probiotics from Mercola and try a half dose? I think I remember reading somewhere that people use half the dose if feeding a good food.

It looks like Earth Bath shampoo sells quite a few things for puppies including wipes. I like the fact that they are parabens, phosphates, pthalates, DEA, synthetic dyes or perfume free.

[marvinwho]

I think everyone should go nuts posting this on Facebook. There are already a lot of complaints on the Beneful Facebook page. Dog owners and concerned people should be sharing this everywhere to see if we can all get to the bottom of it:

https://www.facebook.com/beneful

[sharyorkie]

Hi I have never posted before.But I am on here all the time reading the dry food reviews.I Am now totally confused? I currently feed Pro-Plan small bites chicken and rice I now know it is not the best.My Yorkies are VERY PICKY and I usually have to add canned food to get them to eat.ANY suggestions on a good dry food for small Yorkies that are very picky!! I have tried Nutro, Taste of the Wild and Acana and they will not eat any of these.If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate them
Thank You

[DieselJunki]

So I’m sure you have read my many posts now. Moose’s ankle is doing much better and over the weekend in the splint his leg seems to be completely better and the orthopedic surgeon said there was no sign of the growth plate being out of place. She said to keep him from jumping around on it as much as possible for 2 weeks just to be sure.

Anyways. I finally found the Nature’s Variety Rabbit! I am now mixing that with the Wysong I had bought so as not to waste (Anyone feed Wysong Epigen Original notice it has a chemically smell to it?). However following the directions on the back of the bag of the NV a puppy between 16-25lbs should have 1 5/8 – 2 5/8 cups. For the sake of measuring I just feed 2 cups ( I haven’t had him long enough to figure out if this is to little or to much yet, honestly I’m really not sure how I would tell if I am feeding to much ). He weighs 19lbs now. The ONLY time I can get him to eat everything in his bowl is when I put a soft food topper on it like the NV Rabbit Soft Food (I use half a can at a time when I do). I don’t want to do this every time I feed (I feed 3 times a day) because I want to be careful about his calcium intake and such but it is the ONLY time he will eat everything. Otherwise he barely eats a full cup.

What do I do?

[amydunn19]

The fact that you have worked with human diabetics and you are a diabetic and have counseled dog guardians(whatever that means) doesn’t really mean alot for this particular person who is facing Cushings and Diabetes with a vet who doesn’t even specialize in dogs. Do not tell me I am unwilling or unable to provide the care my diabetic dog needs – she was diagnosed over five years ago and she is doing great. What are the statistics of the dogs you have worked with? You are making vague statements of your accomplishments but no real hard data to back it up. How many of those dogs had Cushings, and pancreatitis? You recommended high protein and high fat food to these dogs and that worked? If you have this information, share it specifically. This is the danger in this kind of forum and not at all what I thought it was supposed to be. It is one thing to get on and talk food and ingredients but when you make suggestions for people whose dogs are in life-threatening situations and you suggest taking actions that go against everything that is out there from real experts in dog diabetes( not experts in reading labels and studying ingredients), I have to call BS.

Kristi – please find a canine cushings forum to help you with some of your questions. These people are living with your situation every day.

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Aimee,

Thanks for your suggestions. I like your “resume” approach (to screening) a lot. Great idea! A worthy and valuable requisite, for sure.

However, my only concern here is that requiring a company to perform expensive testing eliminates 95% (or more?) of the dog food companies out there. And many of those organizations could be producing some of the very best foods on the market.

Overall, I do agree. We do need to give a notable weighting to companies meeting most of your criteria.

However, I don’t believe we should overlook second-rate ingredients and questionable nutrient analysis just because a company employs 150 vets and 50 nutritionists (many of whom simply occupy figurehead positions on the Board — or who perform public relations duties.

Bloated corporations can be wasteful, inefficient and less responsive to their market compared to small to mid-sized organizations.

As in other technological industries, one or two well-informed, conscientious vets, nutritionists or formulators have the potential to create extraordinary products, too.

In any case, being an obsessive “label reader”, I’m looking forward to hearing what you suggest we look for on a label.

As always, thanks so much for your help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi dave and AngieH –

The difficult thing with colitis is that it can have many different causes and it can be acute or chronic. Dietary changes often can help ease the symptoms of colitis. Most dogs with colitis respond well to increased levels of dietary fiber and/or a hypoallergenic diet. Many dogs with colitis also seem to better tolerate foods that are lower in fat. When trying a new food make sure that you don’t feed anything else to your dog during the trial period (no treats!) and give the diet three to six weeks to see if there is improvement (remember, the improvement won’t be immediate and in some cases your dog’s diarrhea can even worsen in the initial stages of the switch as the dog is becoming accustomed to the new food).

For increasing the fiber level, rather then looking specifically for a high-fiber food, I would recommend just adding some canned pumpkin or psyllium to a high quality food. Both are high in fiber and will increase the overall fiber content of the food being fed.

For choosing a hypoallergenic diet you want to pick a food that has a protein source and carbohydrate source (if applicable) that your dog has never been exposed to. Making a homemade food is a great option here.

Two supplements I would definitely start immediately
1. Probiotics – these will help replenish the good bacteria in the dog’s digestive tract and keep pathenogenic bacteria in check.
2. Digestive Enzymes – These will give the dog a boost in digesting their food so the dog’s already stressed digestive system doesn’t have to work as hard at producing its own enzymes.

Some other supplements you may want to try that have proved successful for some dogs suffering from colitis:
1. L-glutamine – An amino acid that helps to repair the mucosal lining of the digestive tract.
2. Slippery Elm – An herb that helps to sooth the digestive tract and relieve inflammation.

I think in the case of colitis, that a high quality home-prepared diet would be best and most easily customizable to the dog’s individual needs. However, here are some commercial foods that are hypo-allergenic and lower in fat that may be worth considering:
1. The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal – Dehydrated, fish-based food, 9% fat on a dry-matter basis.
2. Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance Rabbit – Freeze-dried food, 15% fat on a dry-matter basis.
3. Nature’s Variety Instinct – Limited Ingredient dry foods are all under 20% fat on a dry-matter basis and include a turkey, duck and lamb variety.
4. Addiction’s Dry Foods – salmon-based, venison-based and lamb-based options, all around 13% fat on a dry-matter basis.
5. Addiction Dehydrated Foods – brush-tail, kangaroo, venison, lamb offerings, all around 9% fat on a dry-matter basis.
6. Addiction Canned Foods – brushtail, venison and salmon are only 10% fat on a dry-matter basis.
7. Great Life – Dry foods Buffalo Rx and Duck Rx are both 13% fat on a dry-matter basis.
8. Tiki Dog – canned food with some low fat hypoallergenic options.
9. California Natural Grain-Free – kangaroo, salmon, lamb and venison options, all 13% fat or less on a dry-matter basis.

*Some of the foods I recommended are a little low in protein for my taste, unfortunately when feeding a commercial food most of the foods that are lower in fat and that contain a novel protein also contain less overall meat and thus less protein – this is why I think homemade is the best option. If you are feeding one of the lower protein dehydrated or kibbled foods I’d highly recommend adding one of the recommended canned foods to boost the overall protein content. Also, this is not an exhaustive list – check out the foods Dr. Mike has reviewed on DFA and you’ll likely be able to find more – these are just some brands that first came to mind.

Good luck!

[NectarMom]

I would go for more hypoallergenic foods since there are more people looking for foods that their canines are not allergic to. Nulo is one that comes to mind since they do carry a grain free and potato free kibble in one of their lines. I would also try to go with different Proteins, Read reviews on this board for certain kibbles and you will probably find most of your answers to certain foods. Good luck with your Store.

[cristycan]

My dog was struggling with this for the past year. I spent several hundred dollars taking her to the vet to have the glands expressed weekly, and then antibiotics prescribed by the vet, two rounds, over two months, and still not better. The vet wanted to do surgery to remove the glands, but at $1400 and a 12 year old large breed dog, I was reluctant. I let it go for awhile and the poor dog was licking daily…so I was just about to go ahead with surgery but in a last ditch effort I switched her from Chicken and Rice to lamb and RIce (kirkland) and ordered online a Homeopathic remedy,
http://www.naturalcanine.com/AAGKH.html Silicea, and Hepar Sulph Calc. I thought for a mere $25 what did I have to loose? Well people, I SWEAR THIS WORKED and I am so happy for the first time in a year my dog is not licking anymore. Now in all fairness even the vet told me that eventually that sac would rupture and drain, not too pleasant for the dog….but I really watched my dog carefully go through all this over the past year, and I really do believe this homeopathic solution WORKED . For $25 it is worth a try. There are several pills, it is great value and will treat your dog more than once IF needed…..its a long process over several weeks and i had to write it all down on my calendar to keep track of the dosages but it comes with detailed instructions. PLEASE DO YOUR DOG A FAVOUR AND GIVE IT A TRY! If this works for you, you are only out $25…it is definately worth the attempt. I tried the pumpkin too for months but that didnt really work for my dog. Since I saw this miracle unfold I have been reading online about homeopathic remedies, and this is also used for humans (the Silicea) to help drain boils, and the Sulph is to fight the infection I believe. So I guess this is a common homeopathic remedy to drain infection from the body and also to keep those glands open to continue to drain. It is a miracle and I am not a person who often ventures outside of conventional medicine,but I have a new respect and interest in this homeopathic alternative now. The proof is that my dog is not licking anymore for the first time in a year. $25 beats the $700 I spent at the vet, plus the potential $1400 I was about to spend. Please give it a try and write back to let me know if it worked for you too! Its really a good feeling to see my dog not suffer anymore and to know I can easily afford this!

[nicci10681]

I LOVE this company! I feed my 2 Dachshunds the Chicken Artisan, they love it and I feel good knowing that they are getting some of the best food out there. I’ve also tried several of the treats, the lil bear cookies in several flavors, and the dogs love them, I’ve even tried them myself and they are quite yummy!! lol. I really love that I can read and know every ingredient in them! Everything is human grade. I’ve worked in the pet industry for over 13 years (grooming and obedience training) and I’ve really taken to educating myself on dog nutrition, it’s a passion of mine, if for no other reason than because I want the very best for my babies, no matter the cost! I’ve been through so many foods, but have time and again been disappointed when they were bought out by a bigger company and lowered their quality standards. I can only pray that this doesn’t happen to Grandma Lucy’s and that they stay true to who they are and what they do! I would HIGHLY recommend their food!!

[matt1186]

Thanks. I’ve read all that and I agree with both of you. I just didn’t know if anyone on this site had any proof or reasons why a vegetarian diet would be better. I agree that the reason most people feed their dogs vegan is for their own personal reasons and not to help the canine. Obviously I can’t tell the customers that. I guess I’ll just keep trying to convince them to change there dogs diet.
Thanks a lot, I especially like your comment about the difference between surviving and thriving. I’m gonna use that one!

Thanks

[InkedMarie]

This is not scientific, just what I’ve read but dogs need meat. IF there is some medical issue that a dog can’t have meat or fish, then maybe. Unfortunately, every single dog I hear of who eats a vegetarian or vegan diet is because the owner is a veg or vegan.

[InkedMarie]

Hey Mike,
A suggestion….after reading about Jan losing her Stella, I thought that maybe we could have a Rainbow Bridge forum here, so when that happens, it can be posted there.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi momtopoms –

Fruits and vegetables really aren’t absolutely necessary if everything else in the diet is balanced and the Nature’s Logic supplement does have some freeze-dried fruits and vegetables in it, so this would probably be enough. However, some other options that you could try:

1) Wysong has a supplement called “Wild Things” – it’s a powder made of freeze-dried fruits, vegetables and super greens: http://www.wysong.net/products/wildthings-dog-cat-supplement.php

2) Essex Cottage Farms has a supplement called “Garden Vegetables”, also a freeze-dried powder: http://www.efarms.cc/Products%20Page.htm

3) Nature’s Farmacy has a whole food supplement called “Cornucopia” and 3 tbs. is the equivalent of a pound of fresh fruits and vegetables: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/store/details.php?prodId=321&category=

Also, if your dog doesn’t mind pills you could also consider fruit and vegetable concentrate pills made for humans (just read the ingredients list carefully to make sure there is nothing toxic to dogs – such as onions or grapes). There are many different brands that make these, but some I can think of off the top of my head that would be safe for dogs would be Puritan’s Pride 10 Vegetable Multiplex, Wysong’s Salad and Schiff’s Fruit & Vegetable tablets.

[SuZee]

I am getting a Golden Doodle puppy in five weeks, haven’t had a puppy for many years. I really want to do everything right with this dog; I have read that some commercial treats are treated with arsenic, others cannot be digested and cause blockages, etc. There are so many stories and I can’t separate fact from fiction. While I appreciate the various beliefs set forth on this forum, I am not averse to using commercially prepared treats if they are ok for my pup. That being said, how can I know what treats I can give her? Chew sticks? Any help would be appreciated!

[InkedMarie]

I will give you some advice as it pertains to one of my dogs. I did not do allergy testing but an online friend gave me a list of ingredients to avoid: chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and flax. I have since found that Boone does fine with flax but cannot have yeast. He has done the best with a grain and potato free foods. Beef can be a common allergen, I have read. On this forum, go to the dog food ingredients board and the stickie at the top has the list of those foods.
Boone does best with fish and turkey foods. He eats a pre made raw in the morning and some of that is beef and he has no issue with it. His pre made is also turkey and duck. He eats Brothers Allergy, which has chicken liver & chicken at but is doing great on this food.
Something to keep in mind. You have to be mindful of every morsel your dog eats. That means treats as well. If you feed him a grain free food, feed him grainfree treats. Scour that ingredients list. Also, you wouldn’t think about it but supplements as well. Mixed tocopherols can be soy so the salmon oil I give him is just that, salmon oil (it’s a liquid). I once gave him a salmon oil capsule that had soy as a secondary ingredient. We use Bug Off Garlic for the insects and we cannot use the chewables because there is yeast in it.
I advise trying a few different foods, by different makers. I like doing that because you never know if a food will become unavailable or you see a sale on another one he can have. Hope I’ve been of help!

[mydogisme]

Hi, I was reading what you all were saying. Is there anything better then me buying boneless organic chicken from a organic processing plant and boiling the chicken,chopping it up,I can nibble on it my self or fix a chicken salad sandwich but I have fixed Dixie frozen cookies using the chicken,sweet potatos,carrots and making little round balls,flatten them out and place them on a metel cookies sheet in the freezer. Dixie loved them as a treet. After they froze, I would place them into a baggy and kept them in the freezer. she liked the crunch and she coulnt just swollow the treet, she had to chew it instead. We all love our babies and just like our own children, we all want what is the best for them. Please say a little prayer for my Dixie

[sisu]

I am having difficulty posting in the reviews section.

Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m. Cookies are set to allow local data to be set, and block 3rd party
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Changing the browser setting to accept 3rd party cookies removes the cookie warning message
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I have opened/closed/rebooted so many times that I am confused. I did manage to post one
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It is as if the forum and reviews sections are using different software. The login,
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The only idea I have at this point is that the reviews software requires a more secure
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[sisu]

I am sorry to hijack this thread but I am unable to begin a new topic in the forum or reply in the review section. This is happening with Chrome and IE 8. Below are details in regard to what has been tried.

Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m. Cookies are set to allow local data to be set, and block 3rd party cookies and site data. Exceptions are disqus.com and dogfoodadvisor.com

IE 8. Set to the lowest privacy. No cookies blocked.

I can log in at the forum with no difficulty. Rather I have logged in from the forum or not the warning box remains on all review pages. “Warning: A browser setting is preventing you from logging in. Fix this setting to log in” Attempts to log in directly from any review page results in an invalid password message. I am 99% certain the correct password is being used. Thinking I could be wrong I did attempt to change the password from a review page login. The email with instructions has not been received. It is as if the review section does not see the password used in the forum. There is no difference if AdBlock and Avast are disabled.

Changing the browser setting to accept 3rd party cookies removes the cookie warning message from the review pages but the invalid password message remains. This indicates that part of the problem is that the Disqus software does not see the cookie exceptions.

I have opened/closed/rebooted so many times that I am confused. I did manage to post one reply on a review page. I think I had logged in at the forum. Then, went to reply at the bottom of the post to which I was replying. At the post as selection I entered my email address or username and password which allowed the post to go through. I am fairly certain the browser setting warning message was on the screen when the post went through. Tried to post another reply tonight. It appeared as if it had post but is not on the Nutro Natural Choice (dry) page.

It is as if the forum and reviews sections are using different software. The login, password and perhaps the email address from the forums section is not seen by the reviews software. The reviews software knows my username exists because I attempted to register after having registered at the forum. The reviews software apparently is not reading the cookie exceptions.

The only idea I have at this point is that the reviews software requires a more secure password than used when registering at the forum. Thus, it reads nothing beyond the username.

[pugmomsandy]

Here’s the link where some photos and conversations are posted in case someone else reads this thread:

/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/#comment-752989876

Since I can post photos now, here are my overweight pugs that still have a good body condition score. They are 24 lbs. You can see a better photo if you click on the photo:

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_2852640x539_zps1c019b19.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_28481024x768_zps689af73c.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_2697640x479_zpsbe52d943.jpg

Here’s a poor body condition and a too skinny body condition for a pug:

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_28831024x768_zps49daa9d5.jpg

[buddymax1613]

I’m wondering if anyone else has had this problem, so I will tell my story. In 1984 we stared feeding our German Shepard mix(Scrappy) Eukanuba adult food. In 1997 we got a purebred German Shepard puppy ( Sarge) that we also fed Eukanuba . In 1999 at the age of 15 years our Shepard mix died (her stomach twisted). So in 2001 we got a 3yr old purebred Shepard (Talula) and stared her on Eukanuba and in 2003 adopted a 1yr old purebred Shepard (Max) and put him on Eukanuba. So we had 3 dogs on Eukanuba . In 2006 Talula died of a ruptured cancerous spleen. In 2009 Sarge died of lung cancer which the vets said she probably had cancer somewhere else in her body. Now,we just lost Max to spleen cancer that spread also to his liver. Now my son who had 2 dogs that were lab mixes also died of spleen cancer and also were fed Eukanuba. While talking to one of the vets trying to help max, we mentioned the food concern, and if it could be a coincidence that out of 6 dogs that were fed Eukanuba 5 of them died of probably the same cancer, she said that she also had 2 German shepards die of the same cancer as max, and that were also on Eukanuba. Now this kind of cancer the vet said is seen in German shepards but since my sons dogs were not shepards, I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I think back in the day Eukanuba was a good dog food, but I think since they been sold to Iams, the quality isn’t there. Since we have lost 3 dogs in 6 years we now have switched our 4yr old Shepard to wellness core grain free original formula that I researched on this site. It could very well be a coincidence, but to me it seems awfully strange that these dogs where fed this food all of lives and died of basically the same cancer.

[shelties mom]

HDM,

I really like your whole food supplement recipe, what do you recommend if a dog is allergic to turmeric? I don’t know if mine will but I read somewhere that a dog was allergic. I have Dr. Karen Becker’s recipe book and will use the recipes as a guide, but really want to avoid any synthetic vitamins in her book. That’s what holding me up in doing all home-made. I’ve been feeding Darwin’s but want to it on my own. I don’t like the pre-mixes from THK or Sojos or any dehydrated food. I prefer all raw and fresh veggies. I can get grass-fed beef, lamb and raw wet bone meal from a local farmer, I’m going to visit some local butchers to see if I can get quality poultrys. Once I can get everything together, I’m ready to start doing it on my own.

[soho]

Hi i8ok

Thank you for your reply! Let’s take a closer look at the Plato Organic Chicken strips.
First the marketing claims:
Over 90% organic chicken
Natural ingredients, fortified with antioxidant vitamins, and zinc
No artificial colors, flavors, synthetic preservatives, or GMO’s (genetically modified organisms)
Naturally preserved.
Antioxidant vitamins E and С
No meat by-products or meals

Second the Actual Numbers and ingredients:
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein: 30% min
(How in the world are these treats over 90% chicken and only 30% protein?)
Crude fat: 30% min
(Where did all this fat come from if the treats are over 90% chicken?)
Crude fiber: 1% max
Moisture: 15% max
(This moisture level is a little too high in my opinion to guarantee against spoilage.)
Zinc: 180mg/kg min
Vitamin E: 101 lU/kg min
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) 50mg/kg min*
Omega 6 Fatty Acids –
Omega 3 Fatty Acids –
Iron –

INGREDIENTS
Organic chicken, organic brown rice, salt, zinc propionate, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2phosphate (a source of vitamin C), mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative), rosemary extract.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Now lets take a look at the facts about my chicken jerky:
Made from boneless, skinless chicken breasts bought at the deli section of Costco. This is not pet grade chicken. I know that there are a million marketing claims concerning the chicken in pet foods and treats but not one of the commercial brands are made using supermarket meat like I use. This is the same meat that you and your family eat.

You say you wont eat farm raised fish or feed it to your dog. I respect you for that. But why would you feed your dog pet grade chicken which is a by product of the human grade food business? Pet grade chicken (or any other pet grade meat for that matter) is what is left over after everything that can be used for human grade chicken is removed! And that’s the good stuff. The bad pet grade meats are the Dead, Dying, Downed or Diseased meats that never made into the human food chain in the first place!

Ingredients: 99.8% boneless skinless chicken breasts, salt, garlic. The only thing added to my chicken jerky is 0.2% spices (salt and garlic).

Guaranteed analysis as fed:
Protein 87%
(You read that right 87% now what treat could be better for a meat eater)
Fat 4.5%
(This is what the fat could be in other products if they used the same chicken breasts that I do)
Carbohydrate 0%
(Remember dogs have no biological need for carbs)
Minerals 3.5%
(This is what ash is)
Fiber 0%
Moisture 5%
(5% moisture is low enough to ensure against spoilage)

The chicken I use is Whole Chicken Breasts intended FOR human consumption. Not ground pet grade chicken (Plato)

My chicken jerky is JUST chicken and 0.2% spices. Plato uses brown rice as a filler.

When you look at the facts my jerky is a great value. Compare my jerky to other human grade jerky products sold for human consumption and you will see that my jerky is an OUTSTANDING value!

Thank you aimee

[Alexandra]

Hi Melissa,

I am concerned that they don’t mention titering or exemptions. I know when I register for shows vaccines or health records NEVER come up.

I did misread the heartworm/parasites stance.

But how can a private organization feel that they can tell a club what they should allow? Who drives the AVMA?

First they frown upon raw foods, now they are going after homeopathic practices, where do they stop? I doubt that their motives are 100% pure. Their vets would gain an influx of business by having vets do all of these tests, and most are probably not necessary.

I have been skeptical of this organization for sometime, and even more so recently.

[Mike Sagman]

Mike P.

PetFlow had absolutely nothing to do with my decision. And you must certainly know that. After all, I took the time to send you a private email explaining – in precise detail – the exact reasons I had decided to temporarily close these threads.

I also responded to the comment you posted this morning on the Hypoallergenic Dog Foods thread where you said:

“Good by DFA friends I’m outa here…I do not agree with closing the Brothers thread. It was our place to hang out…”

In case you didn’t get a chance to read my response to you, I’ve reproduced it again here:

“Dear Mike P,

“We’re sorry to see you go. However, please understand this website was created to help its readers choose a dog food by providing each visitor with objective, unbiased information they can trust.

“DFA was never designed to be a chat room or a place for people to simply “hang out”. Or for any one thread to become a marketing mechanism for any specific brand. For that would be entirely unfair to the other 750+ product lines covered by DFA.

“The shear volume of daily activity, irrelevant discussions, product marketing and drama on the Brothers thread has become grossly disproportionate to the rest of our blog.

“As such, it’s also become an unacceptable distraction to the hundreds of other articles, reviews and threads published here.

“Although fewer than one-half of 1% (of our readers) actually participate in our community, their comments and arguments are visible to and read by more than 28,000 visitors each day.

“Once again, we’re sorry to see you go. You’ve contributed much to our community. In any case, you’re certainly welcome to return whenever you’re ready. We wish you all the best.”

Over the last year, I’ve received numerous written complaints from folks who feel DFA has become biased in favor of Brothers. Some have actually accused me of having a financial interest in Brothers – which I’m sure you must know – is simply not true.

The dangerous impression of bias and exaggerated importance given the Brothers brand created by these bloated and (many times) irrelevant threads can have on a trusted website like DFA can no longer be ignored.

For all the reasons I’ve already detailed, I will never compromise the integrity and trust placed in The Dog Food Advisor by its more than 28,000 daily readers – loyal readers who collectively consume more than 3.5 million page views each month.

Mike – I hope your sole reason for being here on DFA wasn’t just “the drama” you enjoyed on the Brothers threads. For if it was, you’ll be disappointed to learn I’m not planning to re-open them anytime soon.

[Melissaandcrew]

ALexandra-

Just took a quick look and I am not getting the same thing you got : )

1) it says the guidelines would be vaccinated as appropriate for the shows area-this makes sense. If parvo is a huge factor in a show area, it only makes sense that all dogs coming to the show be current or titered The question would come into play as to what each individual show is requiring(which some shows already do!) I am betting that exemptions would not be an issue since the vaccine status is verified by your own veterinarian : )

2) Dogs would have to have certificate for interstate travel(this is a basic health exam and form that gets filled out) Believe it or not, many states already have these laws in place, owners just ignore them or never look into them. Rescues/transporters for rescues keep a travel log and any dog travelling through an affected state are certain to travel with required paperwork

3)No where does it say flea/heartworm preventative is required. It says the dog must be internal and externally parasite free. For me, that is a no brainer. This can be accomplished with a fecal and visual check at the health exam for transport.

[Mom2Cavs]

I just want to say I’m thankful for this new forum. Conversations just like the one here belong on it, and not on the actual food rating section, imho. I often go to another rating site, dogfood.chat, that also has a forum. You can look at the ratings of the different foods but if you have questions or want to find out more info. or get into a lengthy discussion then they have a forum. I like the forum they have and the moderator(s) keep it pretty clean lol. They have a few regulars, too. Once I felt insulted and left, but then later started commenting again. I like this site soooo much better, but in all honesty, and no disrespect to Richard or Brothers, I feel the drama and other things on the Brothers thread was sometimes overwhelming. Bottom line is, though, it is Dr. Mike S.’s site and I’m glad he’s finally taken a stand.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jens –

Check out the “Transitioning to Raw” thread and the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread – there are a lot of tips on getting started and some recipes there. Dogaware.com is a great resource for beginners and I would also recommend purchasing a copy of “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it’s a very comprehensible and quick read, a great book for raw newbies. As for a grinder, I personally don’t use a grinder for my RMBs – your dogs miss out on the dental benefits if you grind the bones. I know a few people here do use grinders though, maybe one of them will pop in with what kind they have.

[Saireah]

Hello! This is EXACTLY the thread that I was looking for. We have a 1.5 year old vizsla/lab mix who has hip dysplasia. While I feel as if I didn’t feed her the best food during her first year (Nature’s Recipe – Large Breed Puppy), I have been feeding her better food since. I’m definitely more educated. She’s currently transitioning to Fromm’s Four Star Grain-Free Game Bird recipe from Acana Ranchlands due to itchiness from Acana.
We are fostering a lab/mastiff mix whose parents were a 60lb lab (mom) and a 150lb purebred mastiff (dad). I have been trying to find the “best” food to feed him — and I am thrilled that I might be able to feed the same food to both of my dogs!
I do have a question, though. You state that Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (grain-free) has 1.3% calcium — where did you get this number? His site (http://drtims.com/grain-free/) states 1.51%, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.
I’m trying to choose between Fromm’s Four Star line (I love that you can swap flavors to give variety and I also love that you can feed less because they have a bit higher protein/fat content than the grain inclusive Four Star!) or transitioning both of my dogs to Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (GF).
I want to make sure that I am feeding my dogs one of the best foods! I know that either of these choices would be okay for Quinn, but I am really worried about hip dysplasia in a second dog. Any advice or feedback would be really appreciated. 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Good morning all and thanks to those who responded. I apologize for taking so long in coming back to my own thread!
A few questions. Some of you have seen that we have another sheltie coming in the next couple of weeks. She’s in foster care but I don’t have a whole lot of info on her. She is 9 or 10, apparently healthy except for her teeth. She is in desperate need for a dental and after looking at her mouth, she has some extractions coming. She will have the dental and get spayed this week or next, then coming home with me. So, here is the rundown on the dogs:

Boone-almost 7, allergy and/or yeast issues. He will stay on Darwins in the morn and Brothers in the
afternoon.
Ginger-2.5yrs old, currently eating THK in the morn (Darwins a couple times a week) and Dr. Tim’s grain
inclusive (Pursuit) in the afternoon. She has no issues outside of frequent pooping on anything except
the same regimen as Boone but due to cost, can’t continue with that so that is why we’re trying the
Pursuit

Gemma-new gal coming. She currently eats Purina ONE chicken & rice senior. Even with her icky mouth
that must hurt, she eats dry food. I have THK Zeal here and Wellness Core’s salmon topper. Thinking
I should mix either the THK or canned with Ginger’s kibble. If I see any signs of arthritis or anything,
I will put her on Brothers since it’s grainfree.

So, what do you smarter than me DFA friends think I should do for probiotics and enzymes? Should they all get both? Kefir….where do you buy that? Is that something you order? Is it a pill or powder?

[Melissaandcrew]

Mike P-

The thread is still there, its not like it has been removed. In all fairness to Mike S, he DID start this forum for us all to discuss topics other than the food itself. Most of the time, someone asks a question and a simple direct answer can be given. When its more involved than that, its easy enough to respond with “hey-interesting topic to explore, lets take it to the forums” Since we are no longer supposed to be having large OT conversations there anyway, no harm no foul. I am sure he will reopen it eventually.

[Toxed2loss]

Hey Labman,
You didn’t say what you were feeding, in your post above. Not sure if you’ve posted that somewhere else on the site, but it is important. Your dog’s food is the foundation of her health.

Back before I knew better, I fed really bad dog food to my beloved pointer cross, Morgan. Ol’ Roy, I’m ashamed to say. I was just flat out ignorant!! When she was 12 she slept most of the time, she barely moved, just like yours. Well, my husband decided he needed a new bird dog, so he went out and bought a highly trained purebred, 3 yr old field registered pointer. The owner had health issues and he made it a condition of the sale to feed “high quality” food. Well, he knew more than us, but not as much as he should of, too. He was feeding Iams lamb & rice. A whole lot better than Ol’ Roy!!! So we put both dogs on the better food. Dang!!!! But after a few weeks that dog got up one day and followed my husband 1/4 mile out to the back fence. He turned around and saw her there, wagging her tail and was so worried he carried her (60 lbs) in his arms all the way back to the house. She was lively and healthier for 2-3 more years.

Fast forward to what I know now, feeding your dog THE BEST nutrition makes all the difference! (That’s not Iams!) its balanced raw. If you don’t want to, or can’t, feed raw, then a 5 star meat based kibble. Brother’s Complete is my best pick of kibbles. Hound Dog Mom has posted a lot of recipes and information on raw feeding under that thread, and I’d encourage you to check it out if raw is the way you’d like to go. Shawna is the best resource for nutritional information. Mike P & JohnandChristo rock for feeding kibble plus toppers! Dogs should be living 20-30 years. They were 80 years ago. But that was when they weren’t being feed corn & wheat based dog food. They also weren’t routinely exposed to toxins from flea & tick pesticides, worm pesticides, heavy metals poisoning in vaccines and being over vaccinated… Reducing the environmental toxins will improve your pups health, too! Supplements are just supplements. They can help a little, but they work best synergistically with optimal nutrition.

[pugmomsandy]

weimlove,

Also if you go to the Asian or Mexican supermarket, they have a good selection of organ meats and chicken feet, hooves, heads, even uterus (which I have not tried) which would be muscle meat. I bought some whole wild caught sardines there recently and give those a couple times a week as one of their meals. My local BARF group purchases from texastripe which makes a delivery run once a month to the area and I get tripe and tripe blend from them for $2/lb. I hope you can find a group to join as mine has been a real great place for resources as well as DFA of course! I found mine at yahoo. Try searching for “yahoo barf group”. You may already know. I’m a little technically challenged and just now found the barf group although I’ve been feeding raw for at least 2 years!

[Anonymous]

Thanks Toxed and I’m glad to hear you aren’t deliberately snarky. 🙂 Most women are, including my own mother, so I tend to have a bloody tongue and avoid those people since it just seems like the bigger thing to do. I would leave my vet in a heartbeat if I knew there was a better one nearby, but where I live, the options are limited and like I said, she’s been very good at getting to the root of problems for the most part, on the first try. I hate that her exam rooms are dirty and her staff is less than friendly, but until another option presents itself, I tolerate it and only go when absolutely necessary.
Honeybeesmom, Thanks for the pumpkin tip. I’ve seen/heard that repeatedly, but I didn’t have any at the time and the weather was bad, but I’m going to put it on my list the next time I go to the grocery store so I’ll have some on hand. Not sure if Abby’s problem is something pumpkin will fix, but it can’t hurt to try. I only gave Abby one pill yesterday before her first meal of the day and so far she hasn’t had a problem. Thank goodness since at bedtime she snuck out of her enclosure and stood at my bedroom door begging with those big brown eyes to come in. I crumbled and went and got her sheet so she could sleep in the room with me and she was soooo happy. Luckily, I didn’t wake up to her getting sick and she’s outside now eating. Let the anxiety begin (no pills today). I tried to call the vet about 15 minutes ago to talk to her about possible causes, safer home relief, digestive enzymes, etc., etc., but she’d already left for the day so I guess I’m on my own. I left the spotbot out and am preparing for the worst, just in case.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Unfortunately when it comes to shipping frozen raw food, that’s about as cheap as it’s going to get (wish places that sold raw offered free ground shipping!). For where I’m located, it costs me about $28 to have 50 lbs. of food shipped from Hare Today – VERY reasonable in comparison to many other places I’ve checked out (I’ve priced some and had them quote me over $200 to ship 50 lbs.). They key is finding a place to order from that’s close enough where you don’t have to pay for overnight or 2 day shipping – I’m in New York and Hare Today is in Pennsylvania so I can just get ground shipping.

Also, something else I noticed I forgot to mention before that I figure I probably should mention if you’re going to be ordering green tripe (you may already know this, but just in case) – green tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 (unlike all other muscle meats and organ meats that are high in phosphorus but have no calcium) so when you feed green tripe you don’t need to add any supplemental calcium, it can be a meal on it’s own.

[Shawna]

Hi Research Hound ~~ That is HORRIBLE… I feel for the both of you.. I foster and I’ve had two dogs that would regurgitate from stress. Good stress (like when I came home) as well as bad stress. I TOTALLY get the annoyance and yuckiness of having to continuously clean up vomit… 🙁

Throwing up bile is often caused by an empty stomach. Recommendations are to feed more frequent smaller meals and to give a treat before bed and upon rising.

Sounds like your pup is both regurgitating and vomitting. This is odd as both are caused by different reasons. Dr. Becker just released an informative article on regurgitation and vomit. Dogs may regurgitate due to a hypothyroid as an example. She states that vomiting is diet related and can even be an early symptom of inflammatory bowel disease. I’d read her article and see if anything maybe makes some sense. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/12/17/vomiting-vs-regurgitating.aspx

I’ve read that once on Pepcid etc longer term it may be required for life. Did your vet suggest a temporary trial or was this intended for long term management?

If you think it might be diet — is there ANY food that was consistant between all the foods you tried. Pea as an example is in almost all kibbles (if not all?). My friends dog can’t tolerate green beans for more than a few days without developing tummy issues.

You can drive yourself crazy (if you haven’t already 🙂 trying to figure this out. My only concern though, if it is diet that is causing this then the pepcid is symply masking the symptoms while the damage from the original problem continues on to develop into another symptom. Maybe one that is worse than the initial vomiting? Also, I question how much of the protein eaten is actually being digested because of the blocking of acid? Because of this I personally would give a product like SeaCure. It is a protein that is already broken down so doesn’t require acid to digest it. Long term use can have problems of its own but no more so than protein malnutrition I would think. SeaCure is also healing to the digestive tract.

Wish I could be more help but there’s just too many considerations 🙁 Keep asking questions and talking about it.. Sometimes inspiration can come from the most unlikely places. BEST OF LUCK!!!

[Anonymous]

Shawna,
Thank you for jumping in! Since you seem to be a regular and have some experience on dog ailments? 🙂 here on DFA, here’s how we got to the pepcid ac issue. My lab began vomitting out of the blue about two weeks ago. She hadn’t eaten in probably 12 hours or so at the time, so it was just bile and stomach fluid (on my hardwood floor). She then vomitted more bile liquid again a little while later on my white carpet, off her designated sheet. As I recall, she was fine after that, until the next day, when she just suddenly threw up in my bedroom, right off the designated sheet. Again, just bile stuff as she hadn’t eaten since the previous evening/day. She was fine for the next day or so and then again threw up again in the house, on the white carpet, off the sheet. This lovely ordeal continued as I changed food, went to petburger (hamburger with organs added) and rice, added yogurt, apples, etc. etc. to canned food, trying to get her straightend out. Sometimes she threw up whole food within an hour or two after eating, sometimes it was 12 hours later and partially digested food or sometimes completely undigested food. Sometimes with heaving, sometimes not. She was just all over the board. I called the vet’s office the day before Christmas to see what they thought might be the cause, as she is on top of the line food and none of my other 3 dogs were having any issues and this came out of the blue with no other symptoms at all (she was happy, playful, no stomach tenderness, no temp., drinking normal, etc.). After nearly two weeks of this cycle, I finally gave up on trying to figure out the issue and just took her to the vet who prescribed the pepcid and since taking it on Monday, she hasn’t had a single episode. One can only clean vomit up so many times before desperation kicks in. If that makes me a horrible awful pet owner, then so be it, but without any rhyme or reason to these episodes, I just wanted the madness to stop. It wasn’t like I just booted her outside and told her to go eat her ol’ roy and get over it. I finally barricaded her in the kitchen where she’d be on the vinyl flooring for many hours a day and was strict with her diet as I researched online and tried different things. Having never had a dog suddenly develop this problem, I was at a loss. In case this resumes, what do you recommend, aside from the mercola enzymes, toxed already mentioned? Thank you in advance for any help or advice you might have in case this issue resumes.

[Shawna]

Hi Bill 🙂

1. The reason plant based proteins are combined, as you know, is that some are deficient in one essential amino acid or another. By combining you can get representation of all essentials. My problem with this is that if not done well it can still cause an excess of others making the entire protein content less bioavailable. Bioavailability is the ability of the body to use the amino acids from the proteins we eat. Egg has 100% bioavailability — ALL the amino acids in an egg are used leaving none to become blood urea nitrogen for the kidneys to have to filter. When we combine foods we’re bound to have an excess of some and a proper representation of others. The body is then going to have an excess of some that it can’t use and these become blood urea nitrogen. This isn’t a bad thing unless the eater has kidney disease.

All animal based proteins already have all essential amino acids so combining is not really as necessary. However some have more of one and less of another — turkey, as an example, is a good source of tryptophan. Adding animal based protein to any kibble is a good idea and mixing up the proteins makes sense (different amino acids, different fat representations etc). You can not over feed protein to a healthy dog. What they can not use they will safely eliminate causing no harm.

It’s best to feed eggs raw as cooking them can denature the protein in the whites and destroy the omega 3 in the yolk. If feeding whites only you must cook them as the avidin in the white binds to the B vitamin biotin and can cause a deficiency. The yolk is high in biotin so when feeding together avidin is now believed to not be an issue.

2. I don’t think that carbs reduce the benefit of protein (with an exception) but rather they take the place of the much more needed protein. It is well known, and mentioned in the teaching books like Waltham, that dogs have NO nutritional need for carbs. Adding carbs displaces the macronutrients they do need — fat and protein. Dogs can derive glucose from protein and fat. Carbs (starch) is added to kibble more because kibble can not be made without starch than a dietary need. I do think that in our modern world the antioxidants, vitamins etc in high quality carbs (veggies and fruit) can be of great benefit when used in small amounts though.

The exception I mentioned above — there is a theory that carbs and proteins digest at different rates, and more importantly, at different acid/base levels. Lou and Marilyn Diamond had a very interesting book out in the 80’s called “Fit for Life”. From memory, the theory is that carbs (starch) digest in an alkaline environment and protein in acid. This is true but I don’t know if one impedes the other. Example — if a high starch diet prevents the stomach from producing enough HCL to activate the pepsin protein in the stomach that digests the protein.. If this is true than excess, or any, starch can make protein digestion more difficult. Carbs could be eaten but not at the same meal as protein and visa versa. Fruit had to be eaten alone and non-starchy carbs (aka certain veggies) could be eaten with protein or starchy meals. I tried this and I do think it improved digestion considerably but it was difficult to maintain and after about 8 months I gave it up never to retry.

3. I’m sure there’s a way to easily figure out the percent but math is not my strong suit so I’ll leave that to someone with stronger math skills :). I will say however that I don’t think you need to worry about it. Those of us that feed raw, myself and Toxed included, feed protein amounts in excess of 50%. What you do want to be congniscent of is not to add more than 20% of ANY food that is not balanced to an already balanced diet. Doing so can throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and that could be bad..

I am HORRIBLY sorry if this post makes little to no sense…?? I’m watching my 1 and 2 year old grand kids and they make concentration and focus near impossible.

Thank you Toxed for your vote of confidence!!!!! 🙂 Love you girl!!

[Toxed2loss]

Tapioca is one of the alternative starches being used in higher end kibbles. Its gluten free, non-GMO, and when properly processed, non-toxic. In order to make, and bind kibble you must use a certain amount of starch. Tapioca is a good choice in that it is nontoxic, gluten & lectin free.

There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated about tapioca, so lets review the facts and set the record straight. There are no poisonings from properly processed tapioca flour. In fact, most poisonings occur in famine stricken areas where the starving individuals try to take short cuts in processing the raw cassava or manioc root. This is well documented. Tapioca has been safely consumed for thousands of years and is the main staple starch in African, Indonesian and South American diets. “500 million people rely on cassava as their main source of calories, among them subsistence farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa…”Richard Sayre, a professor of plant biology at Ohio State University
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“The Culprit in Cassava Toxicity: Cyanogens or Low Protein?
by G. Padmaja

The starchy roots of cassava (Manihot esculenta Crantz) are already a staple for about 500 million people of tropical Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but countless others might also benefit from this food if it were not for the sensationalism that sometimes surrounds the crop’s potential toxicity.
The cassava plant carries two cyanogenic glucosides, linamarin and lotaustralin, in its edible roots and leaves. The amounts of these potentially toxic compounds vary considerably, according to cultivar and growing conditions. “Sweet” varieties usually have such small amounts as to be innocuous, whereas “bitter” varieties have sufficiently high levels to require domestic processing to remove most of the toxins.

In situations where famine or extreme poverty may force a population to eat poorly processed cassava in a diet that is also deficient in nutrients such as protein, the plant’s cyanogenic glucosides can lead to poisoning. A classic case was the infantile kwashiorkor epidemic in famine-stricken Biafra in 1968, but there have also been recent examples of spastic paraparesis, or konzo, in drought-stricken regions of Mozambique and Tanzania.

Detoxifying cassava

Farming populations who cultivate cassava have developed many methods of detoxifying cassava. Boiling and drying are sufficient to make low-cyanogen cultivars safe for consumption, but more rigorous procedures such as grating, fermenting, and sun-drying, are necessary to effectively remove cyanogens from cultivars of higher toxicity.

The protein link

Whenever a chronic disease has been linked to cassava consumption, the victims have also been found to suffer from protein deficiency, suggesting a relationship between the two.

Protein is essential for all the body’s vital functions, and for eliminating certain dietary toxins. With the help of the enzyme rhodanese, the human body detoxifies cyanide by forming thiocyanate. When the body is regularly exposed to cassava cyanogens, the increased synthesis of rhodanese makes extra demands on the body’s reserves of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. To detoxify 1.0 mg hydrocyanic acid (HCN), the body also needs a daily supply of about 1.2 mg of dietary sulfur (S) from S- containing amino acids (SAA). If the demand for rhodanese and SAA is prolonged, as in the regular consumption of cassava, and the diet is inadequate, the synthesis of many proteins vital for bodily functions may be impaired, leading to the development of protein deficiency diseases.

Cassava – low protein source

Cyanogens alone cannot be blamed for toxicity because other cyanogenic crops, such as sorghum and Lathyrus bean, which are widely used as food, cause few toxicity problems. But the protein contents of these two crops (11.0% and 18.7%, respectively) are higher.

Many cassava products contain very low amounts of cyanogens, which can be efficiently eliminated by the body, if the protein intake is adequate. Cassava roots, being bulky and rich in carbohydrates, free dietary proteins from having to meet the body’s energy needs, thus allowing them to be used more efficiently. However, the level of protein in cassava lags far behind the levels found in rice, wheat, and tuber crops (Figure 1). An adult consuming 1 kg of cassava has to ingest 52 g of protein from other sources to obtain the U.S. recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 65 g protein per adult. In contrast, 1 kg of wheat supplies 121 g of protein and rice, 61 to 64 g of protein.

If protein intake is more than adequate for both general metabolic requirements and cyanide elimination, toxic effects are lessened or even eliminated, even if cassava is improperly processed. (Fatal poisoning can result from ingestion of large amounts of unprocessed or poorly processed high-cyanogen cassava.) Hence, the lack of protein in cassava roots is probably responsible for most non-fatal cases of cyanide poisoning associated with cassava.”
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgiar/newsletter/Oct96/6cassava.html
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Notice it was cassava and not tapioca, that caused the poisonings. Notice also that they weren’t in the US, but in impoverished areas, in developing nations, and there was a lack of sufficient dietary protein.
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Nutritional profile of cassava
Cassava root is essentially a carbohydrate source.[27] Its composition shows 60–65 percent moisture, 20–31 percent carbohydrate, 1–2 percent crude protein and a comparatively low content of vitamins and minerals. However, the roots are rich in calcium and vitamin C and contain a nutritionally significant quantity of thiamine, riboflavin and nicotinic acid. Cassava starch contains 70 percent amylopectin and 20 percent amylose. Cooked cassava starch has a digestibility of over 75 percent.
Cassava root is a poor source of protein. Despite the very low quantity, the quality of cassava root protein is fairly good in terms of essential amino acids. Methionine, cysteine and cystine are, however, limiting amino acids in cassava root.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cassava
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THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAPIOCA
Aug 5, 2011 | By Kristi Wray

Conventionally, tapioca, derived from the cassava plant, is best known as a creamy pudding dessert with little sustenance. However, in some in areas like Africa, Asia and South America, tapioca is known better for its nutritional benefits than as a sweet treat. When eaten raw or incorrectly prepared, the plant releases poisonous properties. Thus, tapioca must be prepared correctly to prevent harm and ensure safe eating.

STARCH EQUALS ENERGY
The cassava plant is a root vegetable and a healthy source of carbohydrates. In many countries, it serves as a main dish because of its high starch content. Even better, it is considered a healthy starch because it is low in cholesterol and unhealthy fats. Tapioca can be included in dietary plans to promote healthy weight gain.

GLUTEN-FREE
People suffering with Celiac disease or other conditions that restrict the use of gluten-based foods can use tapioca as an alternative to recipes that use wheat flour. Tapioca flour, which does not contain any gluten, is a healthier alternative to wheat flour. Both tapioca flour and tapioca starch can be used as a thickening agent in cream-based sauces and gravies.

MINERALS
Calcium, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium can be found in tapioca in varying amounts. If you are preparing a more processed form of the root, like a pudding mix, you will receive a smaller amount of these minerals than if you were to consume tapioca starch or flour. Tapioca is also a good source of iron, and, in particular, dry tapioca pearls contain up to 13 percent of your daily value of iron. B-vitamins, including folic acid, which is extremely vital for pregnant women, are also found in tapioca.

DIETARY FIBER
Over the years, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has placed extreme importance on the consumption of dietary fiber on a daily basis for a healthier lifestyle. The cassava root has a significant amount of dietary fiber in its natural form. According to the USDA, foods high in dietary fiber can help lower cholesterol, decrease the rate of colon cancer, and lower the risk of diabetes and heart disease.” http://www.livestrong.com/article/509033-the-health-benefits-of-tapioca/
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So there you have it. A factual picture of tapioca starch, without the scare tactics.

[oceandog]

I have had him on raw until the vet prescribed a specialty anallergen kibble (not good stuff in my opinion). I have a kibble now because the raw I have been using does not have novel protein sources. They have turkey, chicken, duck and beef. I am going to be honest and since I don’t know anyone here yet I hope that readers will be kind. 🙂

I am a 22+ year vegetarian/vegan and while I cannot eat meat myself, I don’t believe that I should force that on my dogs as I believe they are carnivores. The reason I say this is I don’t believe I could make my own raw. Unless you eat the way I do you cannot imagine how truly difficult it is for me to deal with the raw on a daily basis. I have to slightly warm it or he won’t touch it, the smell is my undoing. Not to mention the mess. So, having said all of that? I don’t think I am up to making my own. If I read your post correctly, those two links above have novel protein in a raw form? If so, do I have to do anything to it or can I just feed it as it comes? I will look for this information on the sites, and I so appreciate your feedback. This has been quite difficult. I thought we had it figured out a couple of times but I think my error was not keeping him on a restricted diet long enough.

It is of course possible it is a habit or environmental. Yesterday though he was chasing his leg in circles to chew on it. So I just don’t know. I have the kangaroo kibble that I will continue on until I can review and possible order from the suggested sites. I have kept kibble on hand for training purposes. Do it seem reasonable to keep the kibble for this purpose if I can find an appropriate raw?

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Sophia,
I checked out the product that HDM recommended and its a very good product. Nice find HDM!

I use a salve make myself with coconut oil, beeswax & essential oils, or a water based iodine salve. I’ve also recently treated ear problems with astaxanthin. It works better than anything else I’ve tried. I get the caps from Dr. Mercola. Make a pin hole in one end & put one (5 lb Pom) or two (50 lb poodle) in each ear. I squeeze the rest in their mouths. Worked in just a few applications, with occasional follow ups as the toxins work their way out of the tissue.

The itching & “allergies” are more likely due to the frontline & vaccine reactions than anything else. Hop over to the “vaccinating” thread and read my posts there, if you haven’t already. Then be sure to read my post on the “Detoxing” thread. If you clean up her diet & environment, and boost her immune system, you can relieve all those symptoms. It will take time. 🙂 But its worth it.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I don’t have a huge Heartworm threat up here but, to be on the safe side I did some reading up on it & non toxics approaches. Dr. Wil Falconer, a holistic DVM, wrote a book on natural Heartworm prevention. His website is here: http://vitalanimal.com/immune-path/.

Another sight that might be helpful is this one, it gives 6 homeopathic methods and it encourages the same kind of program that Shawna mentioned. http://www.danebytes.com/heartworm-cures.htm

The bottom line is a healthy animal defends its self against Heartworm, and other parasitic attacks. Meds are insecticides… Poisons. If you use Heartworm “Meds”, you are also making your pet sick. Parasites are stronger than mammals. They’re harder to kill. In order to kill, or poison the parasite the dose of poison has to be pretty high. Keeping your pet optimally healthy, and using non-toxic repellents on your pet for the insect vector (Mosquitos) is a much better foundation. Like Shawna, I strongly believe that garlic can kill the wolbachia. But check out some of the homeopathic site’s cures. 😉

[Shawna]

LOL!!!! Thanks Ann 🙂

I know you weren’t really asking about mange but….. I can’t help myself :).

There is more than one type of mange. Sarcoptic mange is quite contagious and problematic but less common from my understanding. Demodectic mange is more common and also contagious but there’s a but. Most adult dogs, I’ve read, have demodex mites on them. Demodex mites actually live synergistically with their host unless the dogs immune system is out of whack.. In humans demodectic mites live in the crease of our nose and eyelids and in our eyebrows for the most part.

Have you been able to lessen or eliminate the itching? Everybody here is more than willing to help if we can :)..

You are a very good puppy parent!!! If you have read many of my posts you know I can be quite the rambler myself.. 🙂 No need to apologize on my account… 🙂

[Shawna]

Weimlove,

HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

Hope that helps :).

[weimlove]

HDM-
Thankyou so much for making that for me, it helps so much!I went to the local butcher yesterday and found some great prices. He has boneless beef chicken and turkey for .50 cents a pound. He also has chicken necks and backs for .60 cents a pound. He also carries whole chickens, chicken leg quarters, and a variety of organs. He does carry venison, but it’s 6 dollars a pound so thats a bit too much to spend on a regular basis. I think I will be able to get all the meat on the menu from him, but I plan on trying to find other sources of meat as well. I also looked on hare today, and they had alot of great meat too for ok prices. There is also a supplement store in town that I can get the vitamin E and alfalfa kelp mix. I already add salmon oil to his food now, so I can just put that on his raw food as well. Yesterday I was reading about the prey model raw diet, and they kept emphasizing that dogs dont need supplements and veggies if they are being fed the 80:10:10. What are your thoughts on that?