Daycare, Shots, and Neutering

Dog Food Advisor Forums Off Topic Forum Daycare, Shots, and Neutering

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  • #12867 Report Abuse

    DieselJunki
    Member

    So we will be moving to Nashville shortly, possibly in the next 2 weeks or less for the next job. I found what seems to be an excellent facility over the internet. Of course I haven’t been to check it out yet. However Moose MUST have ALL is vaccines: RABIES, DISTEMPER (Dhlpp), PARVO, and BORDETELLA. Moose doesn’t go for his rabies until the beginning of March and doesn’t go for his last Distemper ect. until the end of Feb. Is there a possibility that they will do those last 2 shots he needs sooner? Or do you really need to wait a full month before giving his last series in his puppy shots and then another month to give the rabies?

    Now I called and they said as long as he has all his shots they don’t require them to be neutered. Which is good because poor Moose only has one testicle that has dropped. Moose ins’t due to be neutered until May but if his other testicle doesn’t show up from being MIA we are most likely looking at him being a year before they neuter.

    I do plan on doing puppy classes but haven’t looked into that as much as I have the daycare so I am not sure if they require all the things that a doggy daycare would.

    I really really really want to get him into some kind of doggy daycare asap. Even though I am home everyday for now taking care of him and such I really want him to get the benefits of socialization in a daycare program. They even have a stay and learn, so they train him while he is staying there. I am so afraid because people say that the best time to socialize is up to 12 or 14 weeks of age. Well Moose has been introduced to some other dogs but they were all much older and I really didn’t know anything about them and they seemed nervous with how excited he was so he was just allowed to sniff but not get near them.

    My problem is I don’t have friends near me because I travel all the darn time, so I don’t have anyone with dogs, cats or kids that I can get Moose to interact with that I trust. I take him to the pet store every chance I get, even if I’m just going to pick up some ferret food. He loves seeing people. He seems to love seeing other dogs/puppies too but when I go to the petstore there aren’t other dogs there all the time that he can interact with.

    I will admit, I am not quite sure how to train a puppy, I am just now finally having a break through with his constant nipping after doing a bit of reading online. When playing if he decides to bite I say “ouch!” very loudly and get up and go behind a door and close it, wait 15 seconds, then come out all excited and begin playing. This seems to be working. Thank goodness! Puppy teeth hurt! But this is why I want to get him into a daycare stay and learn program so badly. So I will have a foundation to work with him on. I am trying to teach him to sit and shush before I put his food bowl down, but right now I of course he doesn’t know sit. So I try to wait out his barking and wait until he sits and looks at me before setting it down. Which it seems like he’ll never stop barking so that has been unsuccessful so far.

    I just don’t want to create a 120lb monster when he grows up. I want him to be well mannered and people make it seem like if I don’t get him into a class and get him socialized before 14 weeks then it’s over and I’ll have an pet aggressive, cabinet eating, floor peeing 120lb monster.

    #12869 Report Abuse

    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi DieselJunki –

    If you’re expecting your dog to get that large – early training and socialization is CRITICAL. I can’t emphasize that enough. Take it from someone who’s been there. When I got Gus as a puppy I had no idea what I was getting myself into and I soon ended up with what some would consider a 110 lb. monster. I didn’t jump on the training soon enough – I mean he was such a cute and wrinkly little boy, he didn’t need any rules. He was my first bloodhound and I knew they were large dogs, but I couldn’t actually grasp it until he was a 100+ lb. out of control puppy. I also didn’t do enough research beforehand and had no idea that bloodhounds are the most stubborn and difficult to train dogs known to man! Well you live, you lean. He’s calmed down a lot in his old age and is now a well behaved senior but with my most recent two pups (Gertie and Mabel) I laid down the law the second the stepped into the house at 8 weeks old. Wasn’t making that mistake again!

    As far as the vaccines – they must be spaced at least 3 weeks apart or the vaccine won’t be effective. I would strongly advise against vaccinating for bordetella. It’s unfortunate that most kennels and groomers require this unnecessary and potentially dangerous vaccine. The vaccine is useless and not very effective, often don’t prevent dogs from getting kennel cough. And even if your dog does get kennel cough – it’s not deadly, so why risk the side-effects that all vaccines have for a sickness that wouldn’t even be life threatening if your dog were to get it? I generally have my pups vaccinated for distemper/parvo at 8, 12 and 14 weeks and rabies at 16 weeks. I then have distemper/parvo and rabies given 1 year after the last vaccine. I don’t vaccinate again other than rabies every three years to comply with law. And I never vaccinate for anything unnecessary such as lepto, lyme and bordatella. The decision is yours though, but do your research and make informed choices – do what you’re comfortable with.

    Here’s some info:

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/10/08/cough-treatment-for-dogs.aspx

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/31/what-your-vet-didnt-tell-you-about-all-those-puppy-and-kitty-vaccines.aspx

    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_8/features/Annual-Pet-Vaccinations_20036-1.html

    A WONDERFUL book that every pet parent should read before vaccinating in order to make an informed decision on what type of vaccine schedule they want their pet on: “Shock to the System” by Catherine M. O’Driscoll.

    #12938 Report Abuse

    DieselJunki
    Member

    I wouldn’t get the Bordetella if he didn’t need it to go to daycare trust me. I don’t believe in the whole “We have a vaccine for every illness out there, let’s give your dog 12 different shots at the same time!”.

    I do plan on puppy classes but wanted to do the in conjunction with the doggy daycare stay and learn. However I do not think he is going to be old enough until March to go to a daycare. However I still want to get him into a puppy class ASAP but since most of them are 7 weeks or so and you have to pay in full I can’t justify spending the money and then have to move out to TN next week. Of course after puppy classes I want to continue his training with Obedience classes and if he’s not old enough for that yet I’ll probably take another puppy class. I have also been considering a board and learn program when work starts to get really busy for me. That’s IF I can find a trainer that uses the positive reinforcement training technique. I seem to really like that best out of the one’s I’ve read so far.

    I know some people say that they would never let another person train their dog or ever leave a dog to be trained by someone without staying there. That you training the dog builds a bond. Which I am sure it does but just because I’ve had him trained by a professional doesn’t mean I can’t continue it myself and create that bond. At least that is what I think anyways. I’ve even had people tell me that they wouldn’t send an impressionable puppy to a daycare. So at the moment I am torn as to what to do.

    #13022 Report Abuse

    Rambo and Fancy
    Participant

    As far as daycare and training, you have to do what you have to do…..Better to be trained by someone else then not be trained at all.

    You have to figure out what will work best for the and your puppy, if it was up to most of the “experts & internet” I wouldn’t have my wonderful littermates.

    Good luck

    #13249 Report Abuse

    HDM-

    While I agree that Bordetella often does not work, its because it only protects for 6 or 8 strains out of a myriad of strains out there-which of course is unfortunate, but no different than the flu vaccine that people get. As for “being dangerous” I have never seen an ill reaction to it, except for one or two that have gotten a transient reaction(slight cough for a day or two) and honestly, those seem to be the ones that have gotten kennel cough when it goes around, despite being vaccinated. In our general location, some places are starting to require the Influenza vaccine as well in order to board or go to daycare.

    It is unfortunate for many that groomers and kennels require the vaccine, but its about disease control and attempting to stop the spread of it in a daycare type setting-doesn’t always work, but the majority of vaccinated dogs will not come down with KC or will get a mild case. In the very young, and old KC can be rather serious and life threatening as it can rapidly progress into pneumonia. While most will not(especially those with owners who are aware and get them to the vet quickly) its not accurate to say its not life threatening-it certainly has the potential to be so.

    #13358 Report Abuse

    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Melissa –

    Just about anything can be life threatening for an immune compromised, very young or very old dog – heck even worms or coccidia can be deadly for these dogs. The way I view it, there is no place for the kennel cough vaccine. A healthy dog is not at risk of death from kennel cough and therefore should not be vaccinated in order to avoid potential side effects from the vaccine. An immune compromised dog who may be at risk of getting seriously ill or dying from kennel cough should not be vaccinated for kennel cough (or anything else) because it’s immune compromised – a dog that’s immune compromised should never undergo a vaccination. The data sheet for the vaccine, from Fort Dodge, contains all of the warnings and contraindications that are listed for the distemper vaccine: only healthy animals should be vaccinated, in the event of anaphylactic shock take immediate action, some animals won’t respond, etc.

    Vaccines are a huge risk in and of themselves so before anyone vaccinates their animal they need to weigh the risks of vaccinating versus the risks of not vaccinating. For me – I have healthy dogs with strong immune systems. I don’t feel that it’s worth the risk for me to vaccinate for kennel cough because I don’t feel that my dogs are susceptible and if they ever did contract it, I know it would be mild and non-life threatening. Same goes for lyme. Why take the risk for something that won’t kill my dog even if they contract it? More serious illnesses that could cause death even in a healthy dog (parvo, rabies, etc.) I do feel that establishing immunity in my dogs is worth the potential side effects of the vaccine and therefore I do vaccinate against these serious life threatening viruses.

    As for the kennel cough vaccine not having side effects, many would disagree with that.

    Excepts from “The Nature of Animal Healing” by Martin Goldstein, D.V.M.

    “Kennel cough vaccines offer so little immunity as to be virtually worthless…” (pp. 79)

    “….I obtained ownership of the small clinic that became the genesis of Smith Ridge today. Part of the business was a boarding kennel, which I began to manage along with my practice. In order to be as responsible as possible, I made sure that every dog who checked in was up to date on his bordatella, or kennel cough, vaccine. For any dog who wasn’t, I’d administer an intranasal vaccine, which was said to start being effective as soon as it was given, so that the dog could be boarded without delay. Within a few months, I realized that several of the dogs given intranasal vaccines were emerging from their stay at the kennel with flu-like symptoms – among them kennel cough! As owners began muttering that their dogs had ‘caught’ bordetella at our kennel, I quietly stopped giving the vaccines. The incidences of kennel cough dropped virtually to none.” (pp. 91-92)

    Regarding the intranasal bordetella vaccine specifically (what, to my knowledge, is given at most shelters – at my shelter anyways): “Unfortunately, intranasal vaccines may also lead to other, more serious, problems, including, in my experience, nasal cancer.” (pp. 92).

    Harmless and low risk? I suppose if you don’t mind your dog having their immune system stimulated by a vaccine that has little chance of being effective, having your dog potentially fall ill with the very disease it was vaccinated for and, if your dog is receiving the vaccine intranasally, having your dog potentially get nasal cancer. *shrug* I’ll pass.

    #13360 Report Abuse

    HDM-

    Never said it was harmless or low risk-rather presented another opinion and results of my experience. I will say I personally only vaccinate for KC when I absolutely need to, but that is an individual decision to make, but should be based on all information/sides.As with all diseases, there is a risk to vaccinating and a risk to not vaccinating. Any disease contracted could potentially be life threatening to the dog that gets it-and once they have it, its too late to decide ‘oops, that one must have been immune compromised” Obviously I am referring to those that it may progress to a major problem for. I just prefer for people to hear differing opinions, whether or not they are the same at the root core as my own preferences and beliefs.

    I also do not vaccinate for lyme or lepto as my dogs just do not have the exposure to the lepto, and I have seen multiple reactions to the lyme vaccine.

    #13362 Report Abuse

    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Sorry didn’t mean to imply you specifically were saying it wasn’t risky to vaccinate for it – just bordetella is one of those vaccines a lot of people seem to be under the assumption carries no risk for side effect. I’ve come across many people that vaccinate for bordetella “just in case” or just because their vet recommends it, even if they have a healthy dog with little to no risk of exposure to bordetella. I do agree people need to hear both sides – just my opinion that there’s no place for the vaccine.

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