[Pitlove]

The Primal rep that comes to my work a few Saturdays a month always throws samples of their freeze-dried at me for my cat and dog. Dog loves them, cat used to like them, but did not like the Chicken & Salmon variety I brought home recently. She won’t eat raw either. She eats around the Primal if I put it in with her canned. I am however feeding her Ziwipeak Lamb now for canned food and it’s got a lot of the organ meat and bone in it that raw has. That could be another option for you guys. Shes eating that for breakfast and Orijen dry for dinner.

[Pitlove]

I’d look into Primal. Its a commercial raw food that is formulated by veterinary nutritionists and is already complete and balanced.

[Pitlove]

Roger- No problem! That is such a common mistake, but its funny because when inputting the minimums, just about any food looks like it could work! lol. I asked about which formula for Taste of the Wild Puppy he tried because they are actually both safe for large breeds. Perhaps he would like the Pacific Stream one if you’re still interested in the brand.

[Pitlove]

Roger- Once piece of advice when using that calculator- The levels of calcium and phosphorus that need to be input into the calculator need to be the MAX or as fed levels of calcium and phos, not the minimum amounts that are listed on the bag and on the website of the company.

Which Taste of the Wild formula did your pup try? Both?

[Pitlove]

Hi- Firstly, thank you for rescuing her and I hope the fighting dog was rescued as well and rehabilitated and given a chance at a home as most are not.

Since Aurora is still a puppy and was probably not fed a proper diet if she was being used as a bait dog, its critical now that she recieve proper nutrition. She is a large breed and large breeds, especially GSD’s, are predisposed to orthopedic and growth disorders that are devastating for both the dog and the pet parent. I would highly recommend keeping her on a large breed puppy food that has controlled levels of calcium and phosphorus til she is at LEAST a year old, if not older. However, I did switch my large breed to an adult food at a year and he is fine. GSD’s by breed standard are on the thinner side, so make sure she is not underweight, but at an ideal weight for her breed and age. Extra weight from overfeeding also contributes to these growth disorders.

A lot of her issues could be brought on from stress, especially if feeding her a protein that I highly doubt she was exposed to didn’t help. Also, and this may seem obvious, but make sure you check her really good for fleas. GSD’s have thick double coats and with the conditions she was likely in as a bait dog, I doubt she was on a flea preventative. Fromm is an excellent food, so I think thats a great choice. Both of the Taste of the Wild puppy formulas are safe for large breed puppies so I’d go with High Prairie since you have already tried a fish based formula that did not work. Also cleaning her ears regularly with an ear wash and removing the gunk with a cotton ball or gauze will help reduce any ear infections or yeast in the ears.

My vet told me that licking the paws is usually associated with an environmental allergy, so its possible that something she is being exposed to now outside is affecting her.

[Pitlove]

Hi Ptcbass- Very sorry for your loss. I can’t say whether or not the rX food caused the loss of your pet. My cat was on Royal Canin SO for a UTI, but he died 2 years after I put him on it.

Zignature is an excellent dry kibble to look at. It’s certified low glycemic and grain and potato free. Primal Freeze Dried is an organic freeze dried raw food that might also meet your needs and for a small dog, wouldn’t be too expensive to feed.

http://www.zignature.com/product_range_dog_dry.html

Goat Milk <br> Select Variety

edit: as an aside, if she needs to drop a couple pounds, just feed for her ideal (target) weight and current activity level. She needs to burn more calories than she takes in to get back to a healthy weight.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Acana is a good one to look at, their Singles formulas are potato and berry free actually. I was going to suggest Zignature as well since they are grain and potato free, but it has berries. I think most foods do, but I really have never paid much attention to the berries. What makes you think shes reacting to berries as well?

[Pitlove]

not to mention rachael ray’s foods testing positive for an herbicide…

[Pitlove]

Hi Becky- I’m on a tight budget as well and feed Fromm Gold Large Breed Adult to my pitbull along with Grizzly Salmon Oil for each meal. The bottle will actually tell you how many pumps to give depending on weight.

My dogs hair was falling out and he had oily flakey patches of skin and after one month of the Salmon Oil, his hair has grown back and he does not have any more flakey patches of skin. The Grizzly brand was recommended to my boyfriend by someone who had a rescue pitbull with even worse skin than my boy and he healed amazingly as well. Definitely worth it!

[Pitlove]

Right now because your girl is going through her critical growth period as a large breed puppy adding a food like Regional Red with far too much calcium/phosphorus could possibly lead to skeletal and growth disorders. The FirstMate formula you have as 80% of her meal is formulated correctly for a LBP. Could you perhaps try eliminating the Regional Red and seeing how she does? The problem with mixing these two foods or mixing any two foods right now is that you might be feeding an unsafe amount of calcium. You can add the probiotic powder to her FirstMate to help with the loose stools.

[Pitlove]

When I worked at Petco, I was feeding the WEF canned food to both my dog and cat. Both the dog and cat cans would be very strange and the wet food would be sticking to the inside of the can and the lid. I’ve since ordered the pate style cans for my cat from Chewy.com (the ones I had issues with from Petco) and they have been completely normal. Also no dented cans from Chewy.com. Can’t really say why there is so much variation with the apperance of the cans on the inside, but I didn’t have any issues as your dogs did, luckily.

[Pitlove]

I’ll comment on the first part of your question since I don’t cook for my dog and can’t really give you the best possible advice on that.

DFA really should be looked at not so much as rules for what to feed your dog, but a jumping off point. You don’t automatically have to feel guilty because you aren’t feeding a 5 star food. DFA rates their food mainly for meat content and quality of ingredients in the normal review section and then goes deeper with their feelings about the companies and the companies practices for those foods selected to be on the EC list. If your dog is a doing well on a food that is not on the EC list, there is no reason to feel bad about not feeding something from the EC list.

Food is going to be trial and error with dogs like it is for humans sometimes. Sometimes you will see a food that you’re interested in for your dog and you’ll buy it and try it out with him and he’ll hate it. Then on to the next food until you find something he likes. I had to go through this with my boy. He was so picky and now I’ve gone back to Fromm and we are 3 bags in and he’s still eating it happily and doing great on it.

[Pitlove]

Yes, Dawn will kill the fleas that exist on the dog, but so will any shampoo. It doesn’t have to be marketed to kill fleas. They will die from ingesting it. However, Red is right, Dawn does not actually do anything to repel them and over time using Dawn too much, will cause your dogs skin to dry out. This is knowledge I got while working as a bather at a grooming salon.

[Pitlove]

NutriSource is an excellent food for dogs who have sensitive stomachs. They only make a small breed formula in grain free. I’d suggest trying the Adult formula, since brown rice might be easier for her to digest

http://www.nutrisourcepetfoods.com/nutrisource/products/chicken-and-rice-formula/

[Pitlove]

Red- glad someone finally stood up and said this.

[Pitlove]

“She’s a Saint Bernard, English Mastiff, and Presa Canario ” Wow, sounds like a beautiful combo. I love Presa’s and Cane Corso’s in particular for the Mastiff breeds. Its great that you are doing puppy classes since these are some pretty powerful dogs mixed all in one. Excellent family dogs, but need a strong leader.

Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy is a excellent choice for your XL pup. It is always the first food I recommend as I feed Fromm and love the food and the company.

For your other 2- I think an all life stages food within your budget that is good quality could do the trick. Feed the overweight one for her activity level and target weight (not current weight) and feed the active one for how active she is and make sure she is consuming enough calories to make up for what she burns so she is not loosing weight.

[Pitlove]

Hi Mia’s- An LID is a “Limited Ingredient Diet” which is exactly what Eukanuba Dermatosis is. I concluded that your dog could eat fish given that the main source of animal protein in the Eukanuba vet food was “fish meal”. The foods I’ve suggested and link I provided are other foods with limited ingredients using the main carb source (potato) from the vet food and the main animal protein source (fish) from the vet food. As long as she doesn’t react to any of the other carbohydrate sources in those limited ingredient foods, they could be valid, less expensive options as a subsitute for the Eukanuba prescription food.

[Pitlove]

Sorry to hear about both your dogs. I know this was posted yesterday so I’m wondering if they have improved at all. Have you contacted Amazon? I haven’t used the canned WEF dog food in a while, though my cat has been eating that brand for a while. I have never ordered it from Amazon, I always order from chewy.com. I’m thinking this was a storage issue on Amazon’s part.

I personally haven’t experienced issues with the canned food. Is that the normal canned food your dogs get?

[Pitlove]

It’s going to be hard to find a food that has THAT few ingredients

CANINE DRY:
Potato, fish meal, animal fat, dried beet pulp (3.9%), fish digest, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, sodium hexametaphosphate, fructooligosaccharides (0.39%), potassium chloride.

There are a few companies that make LID diets that are fish and potato based.

Merrick- Salmon& Sweet Potato
Natural Balance- Fish & Sweet Potato
Zignature- Trout & Salmon
Wellness Simple- Salmon & Potato

These foods are all available on chewy.com if ordering online is something that could work for you. You can also take a look at their full list of Limited Ingredient Diets here and see if another might work better for you: http://www.chewy.com/dog/dry-food-294/limited-ingredient-diet,FoodFlavor_facet:Fish

I already filtered it to only show fish based foods. Best of luck!

[Pitlove]

Krystal- Alright, that makes things a bit easier. Are you unwilling to shop online? Chewy.com does autoshipping and they usually have good pricing on a lot of popular and excellent foods. What are you able to pay monthly for food?

[Pitlove]

Are you looking to be able to feed one food for all three? That could be tricky with a giant breed puppy because of their strict dietary needs and with one older dog being active and one being overweight, they will both need different levels of protein and fat.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

So sorry about Gemma :(. She’s a beautiful dog. I know what you mean about removing the picture. My kitty that died last Christmas is still the background of my phone

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Yup I’d say thats a great place to start. Once you find a food that meets the requirements for the ingredients, you can look into the company to make sure its a company that has excellent quality control standards, none or very very few recalls that they have handled well, and personally I prefer small family owned companies that source and make their foods in their own plant in the USA.

[Pitlove]

I don’t like most formula’s that are marketed for senior dogs, same as Marie said. They don’t usually meet the protein requirements for senior dogs. I do agree that Orijen Senior is probably the best one out there.

I usually recommend an all life stages food for customers at my job with senior dogs. One with high protein as well. I’d look for an all life stages food that comes in over 30% protein with the first three ingredients being whole meats and meat meals to unsure the protein is coming from animals and not plants. Some foods will have glucosimine and chondroitin in them, which is something else you can look for. Otherwise I’d suggest a supplement like NaturVet Arthrisoothe GOLD, which has Boswellia in it that is suppose to be really good for arthritic dogs.

http://www.chewy.com/dog/naturvet-arthrisoothe-gold-hip-joint/dp/48764

[Pitlove]

edit: nevermind

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Marie- Thanks I’ll look them up. I’ve looked into a few, but I could always use more to pick from

[Pitlove]

Congrats! I would so love another puppy right now and I know Bentley would love a friend, but we have to wait til we get a house 🙁 I myself have been looking at breeders for Cane Corsos, so by the time we can get one I’ll be prepared and have the breeder chosen already. Corso’s are not for everyone, so I’d much rather get a puppy and train it myself having experience with powerful breeds, than go through a mastiff rescue. People don’t give away Corso’s for no reason…usually its temperment problems.

Make sure and post some pictures when he/she comes home!!!

[Pitlove]

Some foods DO have it printed right on the front of the bag, but more often than not you will need to refer to the AAFCO statement to find out if it is complete and balanced. Usually too you can tell if you see vitamins and minerals included in the ingredient panel.

[Pitlove]

Yes same, I would not feel remotely comfortable giving my credit card information to a website like that. I was typing that last post as you posted your response so I didn’t see it at first. Whether what David is doing on his website is in violation of the Antitrust Laws or any other policy, the whole idea is too convoluted for me to ever consider using the site or recommending it. I also find it hard to believe he even has a single subscriber.

[Pitlove]

Lets also not forget the overall false advertising across your website, as you don’t actually carry over half the brands you claim you do on this page: http://www.petspectation.com/Dog-And-Cat-Food-Brands-We-Sell-and-Deliver.html

If you actually carry these foods, they should be available for purchase at any time. The fact that they are not leads me to believe that you have not even contracted with these companies yet at all and may never.

[Pitlove]

I’m sorry, but this is not about “lack of open-mindedness”. There are laws that govern federal commerce to make it fair to the manufacturer and the retailer and other retailers as well. Your website is offering foods like Purina Dog Chow for a much higher price than what you could pay for it at Walmart and then claiming you plan to bring in very pricey foods like Orijen and Acana for far less than what they are worth and what YOU yourself will pay for them. Under the policy I just provided for you Champion can refuse to do business with you if you refuse to comply with their minimum retail price, which you are already doing without even having their food available to customers.

I expect to see you having shut your site down fairly soon due to lack of funding since you will not convince manufacturers of actual high quality foods to sell to you based on your non complience with their minimum retail price and I do not think for a second someone will pay 39$ for a bag of Purina Dog Chow (when they can get it cheaper elsewhere) which is also falsely advertised on YOUR site as not containing corn, which it does.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Taken from the WellnessCORE website: “100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition for Your Adult Dog”
“Wellness CORE Original Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for maintenance.”

If the food is not complete and balanced the AAFCO statement would read: “Wellness CORE Original Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles intended for supplemental feeding only“

[Pitlove]

Yes Aquarianqt is right, that is what I’m referring to and the Federal Trade Commission governs it.

https://www.naw.org/govrelations/advisory.php?articleid=532

“In a sharply divided 5-4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court has overruled its own 1911 decision in the Dr. Miles case and held that a manufacturer does not necessarily violate the antitrust laws by establishing a minimum resale price for its products and enforcing the policy by terminating a wholesaler-distributor or other reseller who sells below the minimum price. (Leegin Creative Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc. d/b/a Kay’s Kloset…Kay’s Shoes, Docket No. 06-480)

The Court ruled that “vertical agreements establishing minimum resale prices can have either procompetitive or anticompetitive effects, depending upon the circumstances in which they are formed.” Thus, these agreements should no longer be per se (or automatically) unlawful, as previously ruled in the Dr. Miles case. Rather, courts should apply the “rule of reason” standard to decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether a particular vertical price restraint violates federal antitrust law. It should be emphasized that the Court’s decision still leaves vertical minimum resale price restraints open to antitrust challenge under federal and state antitrust laws.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_policy

“Under a Unilateral Policy (or “Colgate Policy” or “Unilateral Minimum Retail Price Policy”) a manufacturer, without any agreement with the reseller, announces a minimum resale price and refuses to make further sales to any reseller that sells below the announced price”

Some of this is also covered with the Antitrust Law

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

David- What I’m saying is, your business model is not actually legal and I’m willing to bet that if you try selling anything made by Champion Pet Foods (Orijen/Acana) you’re looking at a lawsuit. Their bags of Tundra cost over 100$ for the biggest bag. There is no way they would allow you to sell Tundra for 39$ without taking some legal action. Also I can’t imagine you would make much money that way given how much it costs you as the retailer to buy such a product.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

The members page offers you suggestions not only based on the original reviews but on a more indepth look at the company as well, which has become more and more important to pet parents.

[Pitlove]

Oh of course! We do that all the time at work. Some other cool things that a few companies including Fromm, Zignature and NutriSource let us do is give away a free 4 or 5lb bag for a customer looking to switch over to try and my boss gets reimbursed.

[Pitlove]

My boss and I just recently discussed this because she was pricing Zignature when we first got the line in. She ended up contacting Zignature because she usually refers to chewy.com to see what they price something for and then goes a few $ higher than that. Zignature actually told my boss that chewy.com was priced TOO low and they would have to contact them because they could NOT legally do that. That leads me to believe that if David does continue his business and adds Orijen or Acana or any of the more costly brands of food…he probably won’t be in business too much longer.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

You can begin feeding 2 meals a day now instead of 3. I personally have not ever counted calories for my dog, I go based off his physical apperance and that has always worked for me. You can certainly count calories if you prefer that though.

[Pitlove]

Darek- You can switch to something else if you want variety, but since your GR is still a puppy he needs to remain on a food that is safe for LBP’s until at least a year old.

[Pitlove]

Jenn- I agree 100% with your statement about grains. I see no reason to completely avoid a whole carbohydrate source (since they don’t require carbs anyway) because someone told me my dog is probably allergic to grain. I used to be very gung-ho about grain-free diets and felt that it was the worst thing in the world to feed grain based foods and I’ve then since realized that I had fallen into the trap of a lot of the marketing for grain-free foods. Even at work (small pet store) I always share my feelings about grains and I always make sure to add that its just my opinion and they are still free to feed whatever makes them comfortable.

I was told by someone who at one point I thought had a lot of knowledge about dog food (my old boss), that I should completely avoid chicken because its a common allergen for dogs. I tried to cut all chicken out of his diet and ended up feeding him more beef instead. Turns out hes fine with chicken and has an intolerance to beef! haha. I guess I’ve just learned to take certain things with a grain of salt and allow myself to use my judgement and my knowledge of my dog to make the best decisions for him. As I said, hes eating a grain based food right now and I’m beyond happy with the results.

And it sounds like your lab is in great shape too. Especially for 11! Thats great hear. I’ve seen a lot of overweight labs and dogs in general and it really really annoys me that people think that they are “fat and happy”.

[Pitlove]

You would need to email the company and ask them, however the foods that you have listed in your first post are in fact safe for LBP’s. I also do believe Fromm employees a veterinary nutritionist who formulates their foods. Not 100% sure on that though.

[Pitlove]

If you are going to quote Dr. Karen Becker, please give her credit for her words.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/11/08/new-trends-in-pet-food.aspx

This is an old thread and I’m no longer looking for advice on this subject. Thanks.

[Pitlove]

Someone earlier in the thread said Mars. I’d pass for that and those ingredients. Bone Meal….no thanks.

[Pitlove]

No problem. Also I agree with you about Royal Canin. I would stay far away from that brand personally.

[Pitlove]

AGT- I’ve noticed a few recent updates to her site as of late. She actually has it posted now that protein does not effect the growth of large and giant breeds, which is a nice step in the right direction for updating her information. Regardless of her website or the crudness of it, she is a pretty well recognized figure in the Dane community and shes fairly trusted overall. I’ve seen what her top recommended food (Precise) can do and the results speak for themselves. My boyfriends brothers Great Dane has been on it his whole life and hes in great health.

Jenn- Labs are known for being food motivated and food driven. They would also eat themselves to death. One of the regular posters on here, Crazy4Dogs, has labs and she would tell you the same thing. If you don’t control their portions, no matter how much they argue, they would eat until they were very overweight. I don’t know GSD’s well as a breed for how food motivated they are, but I’ve never really heard of them being like labs are. Their food obsession is a huge stereotype of the breed, but its true.

The most important thing for the pup that your concerned about is that he grows slowly as you know. Genetics helps, but more and more research thats being done about LBP nutrition is showing how big a role food plays in the optimal growth of LBPs. Some say it overshadows genetics. I think feeding a quality kibble until they are fully grown is the safest route to go that requires the least amount of math (lol!) to know that your pup is recieving the best nutrition for slow growth.

Personally, I’ve jumped off the grain-free bandwagon. I’m not against GF foods, but I’m not so crazed about only feeding grain-free foods. My dog is eating a grain based food right now and this is the best he’s done yet.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Personal opinion is I like both brands, but at heart I am a Fromm girl. My dog does amazing on it and I really love the company and the quality of the food. Only thing is the Salmon A la Veg is grain based, so if he can’t have grains that one is probably out.

INGREDIENTS
Salmon, Salmon Meal, Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Oatmeal, White Rice, Dried Whole Egg, Salmon Oil, Millet, Dried Tomato Pomace, Safflower Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Monosodium Phosphate, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Parsley, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

[Pitlove]

Hi, I’ve already posted to you on your other thread, and while I have a large breed (pitbull) not a giant breed (though they require the same nutrition as puppies), my boyfriends brother has a Great Dane. His brother used Precise Holistic Complete Large &Giant Breed Puppy and now the Adult version. Cash(his Great Dane) grew perfectly, no skeletal or growth disorders, he remains lean and muscular and hes in great health. Cash is living proof for why this is one of my top recommended foods for giant breed puppies.

Thats my opinion and little anecdote for you, hopefully other giant breed dog owners will share.

[Pitlove]

Some people like Lisa Arnet (The Great Dane Lady) believe in not feeding grain free foods to LBP’s because the grain free foods have not been feed trial tested yet with LBPs in mind. http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm

Jenn- Your dog is not starving. One of the worst things you can do for a LBP is over feed them. As far as I know WellnessCORE Puppy is still safe for LBPs. Some great grain inclusive LBP foods are Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, Precise Holistic Complete Large&Giant Breed Puppy and Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy.

[Pitlove]

No Natural Balance is not formulated correctly for a large or giant breed. My top picks for LBP foods are Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, Precise Holistic Complete Large&Giant Breed Puppy and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy. These are all KNOWN safe LBP foods and they are very good foods.

Edit: You can also look at this google.doc, but its 2 years old and needs some updating

https://docs.google.com/a/selu.edu/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Marie- This is from the site “Additional nutrition information available upon request. (Go to product detail page for each product.)”

They don’t have the GA anywhere on the website, but my guess is it’s very similar to Pure Balance. If you do the choose a store thing just put Orlando, Florida. Florida has Publix everywhere.

[Author]

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