[Pitlove]

Try Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy. It is highly recommended for Danes. My boyfriends brother uses it for his and he has since he was a puppy. He grew perfectly and still looks amazing. He’s in great health.

[Pitlove]

About 20 years ago, many clinical studies proved protein to be a non factor in large and giant breed puppy growth. So I would not worry about that. As for feeding an adult maintenance food, that is an old old tired theory that many breeders, dog clubs and vets still maintain, however it is absolutely incorrect. Also you have to understand that the dog food industry has vastly improved their LBP formulas. Most are now in compliance for the recommended amount of calcium and are much more safe to use than an adult maintenance formula which will have calcium levels that exceed those needed for a growing LBP.

The other huge thing with these giant breeds is keeping them at a Body Condition Score of 4/9 throughout growth (and really their whole life). Do not over feed, do not free feed. You should be fine.

[Pitlove]

Hi Scott-

Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy would be a good choice, but if you do not want to use that food and will be shopping on chewy.com here are some foods that meet your needs that are within your budget of less than 2$/lb.

http://www.chewy.com/dog/dr-tims-kinesis-all-life-stages/dp/52925

http://www.chewy.com/dog/fromm-gold-holistic-large-breed/dp/32616

http://www.chewy.com/dog/nutrisource-large-breed-puppy/dp/38141

http://www.chewy.com/dog/taste-wild-high-prairie-puppy/dp/34836

http://www.chewy.com/dog/taste-wild-pacific-stream-puppy/dp/34840

Just want to note though that these are not grain free (except for the last 2). Grain free is not so much the issue unless a grain allergy is already known. The bigger concern is the calcium/phosphorus and the calcium/calorie and these foods meet those requirements.

[Pitlove]

Hi Melissa-

Hypoallergenic dog foods do not exist. Not even the prescription diets are allowed to make the claim of being hypoallergenic because it is individual to the dog. It sounds like your dog needs to have a food trial done to diagnois the food allergies and then you and your vet need to work together to come up with a food that will work for the allergies and the colitis.

I think it is important to take things said over the internet about vet’s with a grain of salt. Your vet is actually trying to help you believe it or not. And there is a much better reason for them recommending the presciption diets for such severe symptoms than money. It’s because these diets do in fact work.

[Pitlove]

No problem! Hope Orijen works for him! I agree with the foods like Dr. Tim’s, but I do think its worth it to get off chewy.com. Really good price for a good food. And big bags!

[Pitlove]

Hi Carol-

I agree both Orijen’s bags and website are cluttered with information which makes it difficult to find more important information. I was able to find the calories on the website under the Feeding Guidelines

Here it is: ME (calculated metabolizable energy) is 3980 kcal/kg (478 kcal per 250ml/120g cup).

Hope this helps!

[Pitlove]

NutriSource Large Breed Puppy is 400 kcals/cup

Dr. Tim’s Kinesis is 415 kcals/cup

Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy is also 400 kcals/cup

These are all chicken based though. Not sure if that was alright for him.

[Pitlove]

Jenn-

Sorry, I made an error. The nutrient profile I was comparing THK to was actually AAFCO’s list. I had googled NRC and somehow got AAFCO’s profiles and did not catch it.

[Pitlove]

As far as I’m aware, legally the company has to comply only with AAFCO. I don’t know that they have to with the NRC, though it is recommended and I believe AAFCO has used the NRC’s guidelines in the past when revising their own. Personally, I’d like to see them comply with both, but thats just my opinion. And yes I do believe some effort is being made for NRC and AAFCO to come to a concensus on nutrient profile guidelines.

Great! Let me know how the call goes. For right now, I’m only interested in who manufactures them. We do carry the brand at work as of recent, but we carry enough brands similar to it that I can’t see myself recommending it. Perhaps only to an Orijen customer looking for something with higher meat content for a lower price.

[Pitlove]

Well, I had a more indepth explanation for you about THK Jenn, however I apparently tried to close a tab on my browser and it closed this tab too. Regardless, my conclusion is based on my further investigation after reading Aimee and several others comments about their nutritional inadequacy on THK review. My boss was considering bringing this food into work and I wanted to check it out. What I did find out is that Aimee’s conclusions where correct. Several of their diets report below NRC mins (I side by side compared the NA on THK website to the 2014 NRC nutrient profiles) on key nutrients like Methionine and Riboflavin. I don’t think those facts have anything to do with Aimee or her being “a fan of Purina”. 🙂

As for Nulo, I could not find who manufactures for them. What I did find though, was emails to the company from a poster on another dog food forum, where the company stated that they could not disclose their manufacturer. Shoot them an email for me and see if you have better luck though. Til then I can’t recommend them.

[Pitlove]

Hi Erica-

C4C gave you a lot of good suggestions and she made an excellent point about the rating system on this website. It really should not be taken as bible. Best my dog has ever done is on a food that this “rating website” gives 3 stars to, yet is a food that veterinary nutritionists recommend time and time again. Nutritional soundness in a food is far more important than how this website rates the ingredients, since one does not always equal the other.

Not sure what your reasoning for feeding grain free is, but it is always going to be more expensive for all those bells and whistles in GF foods and they more often than not tend to come in a smaller size bag than their grain inclusive counterparts. If you’d consider a grain inclusive food, Dr. Tim’s Kinesis is a good choice that offers 44lb bags on chewy.com for 1.46$/lb.

[Pitlove]

Poor digestability with their pre-mixes, the company’s “nutritionist” not being able to answer basic nutritional questions when asked, many of their diets report meeting AAFCO nutrient requirements, yet don’t when evaluated (most fall below AAFCO). Personally I would not use this brand, but if I did I would certainly not use it long term or by itself.

This is why I can understand why veterinary nutritionists do not use ingredient lists to evaluate the quality of a food. When you stop and think about it critically, it does not tell you much.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jenn-

You can have the best ingredients and the poorest quality nutrition. Brands like The Honest Kitchen have proven that.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Hi Debbie-

Glad you found something that works for your dog. I just wanted to make a note that your vet saved you a lot of money by advising against blood testing for food allergies. It IS in fact very inreliable.

If you ever find that the Kangaroo diet is not working, the golden standard of testing for food allergies is a proper elimination diet with either a homecooked diet with a novel protein and carb (one of each only) or a presciption veterinary diet in which the protein has been hydrolyzed. Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein would be the best one to use as it outpreformed Science Diet in effectiveness when feed trialed. They can eat that food and only that food for 2-3 months, no treats, table food, nothing. It’s tough to do but so worth it! We did that for our pitbull who has food sensitivities.

Hope your lab has continued success with Zignature!

[Pitlove]

Yes, a commercial kibble is going to be your best bet IMO. I would highly recommend consulting a nutritionist if you want to continue feeding homecooked meals.

[Pitlove]

Thats great! Happy to hear it Kevin. Does the vet have any idea what DID happen? Also what did he recommend diet wise from here on out?

[Pitlove]

100% agree with anonymously. These are questions for a vet. You can talk with one over the phone for free.

[Pitlove]

Hi laconrad-

I’m interested in if you can explain how your dogs were able to choose a vegan diet for themselves, instead of one that contained meat as well. Were they offered several diets side by side, some of which contained a meat source, and chose the food without meat?

I have offered my dogs fruits and veggies and they turn their nose up to them. They definitely both prefer to have some meat in their diet. I don’t feed raw however.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

[Pitlove]

I still find the food to be misleading in certain ways. The 80/20 ratio is also misleading as it is before the meats are cooked. In fact, brands like Nulo actually have a higher percent of meat than Orijen does.

Canidae’s brand Under the Sun did what you were talking about with Merrick. Every one of their products had Pork Meal as the first ingredient, yet said “Chicken and Rice”, “Lamb and Rice” etc on the front of the bag.

[Pitlove]

I agree that the previous owner not having any medical records and the fact that she will not/can not even provide the name of a vet the dog has seen is suspious. I just wanted to point out that my boys are intact and have had rabies vaccines and see the vet as needed, so it’s not a clear indiactor. Thats all. I agree with all of your other points. 🙂

Oh I know small dogs bite. Those were the only ones who ever did try to bite me when I worked at a grooming salon!

[Pitlove]

Just wanted to note that him not being neutered is not a for sure sign he has never seen a vet. Both of my boys are intact and see the vet as needed.

He may need more time adjusting to a new home. About how long has it been now since he hasn’t eaten?

[Pitlove]

If Blue Wilderness would count, I suppose I would nominate Orijen since the raw feeders would never use the term “Biologically Appropriate Dog Food” for kibble.

Kibbles N’ Bits would get a nomination as well.

[Pitlove]

A slow feed bowl and feeding 3 meals a day has been known to help deduce the risk. Unfortunetly dogs who are prone to bloat because of being deep chested or large/giant can still bloat even if you do all the right things.

I’ve not heard anything about grains being a factor. In fact I follow a couple on YouTube with 3 huskies, one of which has bloated and they feed Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, which is grain inclusive. 3 meals a day, plus a slow feed bowl has so far stopped her from bloating again.

[Pitlove]

Hi Debbie-

With a growing large breed the first and foremost important thing is that the food is nutritionally sound and secondly that it provides the proper calcium levels and a proper calcium to calorie ratio.

Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy may have ingredients that most on this site deem less than desirable, however it is a nutritionally sound food that is feed trialed on large breed puppies and provides the correct calcium levels, along with the proper calcium to calorie ratio.

Using consumer reviews to judge the quality of a food is going to leave you more confused about which food is right for your dog then when you started. Emotion plays too much of a role in most pet parents choice of dog foods and they can be swayed very easily by a nice looking ingredient panel and not question for a moment if the food even provides the proper nutrition for their pet, assuming that if the ingredients look good the rest will fall into place. Find a food that your dog does well on and enjoys eating that meets the needs of a growing large breed.

If you still do not wish to use ProPlan or Nutro, some other foods that I can suggest are:

Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy
NutriSource Large Breed Puppy
Precise Holisitic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy
Solid Gold Wolf Cub
Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy
Hill’s Ideal Balance Large Breed Puppy

[Pitlove]

Emily-

Pro Plan DCO is specifically formulated by nutritionists for canine patients with diabetes. It is a fine choice. If you do not want to use this food, I would suggest working with a nutritionist to formulate a homecooked diet for a diabetic dog.

[Pitlove]

I’ve only used Vital. It is like crack for dogs. Beware 🙂

[Pitlove]

Does not matter what the front of the package says. As long as the AAFCO statement on the back says “all life stages” (which both do) it can be fed to a small breed puppy.

[Pitlove]

If the AAFCO statement on the back of the bag says All Life Stages, then yes it’s fine for a small breed puppy

[Pitlove]

A complete meal will have a vitamin pack. If you are ever wondering if it’s complete or not while shopping, flip the can over and look for the AAFCO statement. If it says anything about “intended for intermidiate or supplemental feeding only” it is not a complete meal.

[Pitlove]

Hi Lorelee-

Others may have different opinions, but I feel it is best to keep a large breed puppy on a puppy formula that is correctly formulated for a LBP until 18 months of age. Most are done growing by then and it gives an extra cushion of safety to make sure they are still growing slowly. However, a lot of people switch to an adult maintenance food at a year old.

Also just wanted to mention, now that he has been neutered, watch his calorie intake even more carefully. Neutered dogs can gain weight easier because of hormone changes and one of the worst things for a LBP while they are growing is to gain weight.

[Pitlove]

My god what a horror story. That is unreal… You would think that someone, anyone in that town would have cared. The vet? You know?

Have you looked at NutriSource before? It’s far cheaper than NOW and it digests really well for their sensitive stomachs. They make a GF small breed chicken formula. Solid Gold also makes some grain and gluten free formulas that are also much cheaper than NOW. For Little One, avoid foods with rosemary. Some say they have seen a correlation between Rosemary and dogs who are prone to seizures. They say it can trigger one.

NOW seems like a good food, but that is way too much to pay on a budget. There’s lots more out there that are that good but cheaper. Any reason why you want grain free? That’s usually more expensive as well.

[Pitlove]

Hi Bill-

What a heartbreaking story about your new adoption. Thanks for taking her away from that criminal owner. Any animal cruelty charges against her? I hope so!

Couple questions to help narrow down a good food….what size bag do you need? Also how much per lb can you pay for food each month? I have some foods in mind, but I don’t know if they would fit in your budget.

[Pitlove]

Hi Gabrielle-

Sounds to me like you may be used to smaller dogs! Especially between those 2 breeds mixed together, she will not be done growing by 7 months. With large breeds it is recommended to feed a large breed puppy formula up to 18 months of age to play it safe and make sure they grow correctly. Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy is a good choice and I would personally keep her on that food. This food has been feed trialed with large breeds as well which is a plus. I understand your concern about her dropping weight, however it is far better for a LBP to be a little underweight than overweight by even a few pounds.

What has the vet said about her growth?

[Pitlove]

See if you can get Fromm or NutriSource near you. My picky dog ate both of those without canned. Seems to have good palatability. I’m not sure if Nutro does or not, but you could try it.

[Pitlove]

He might be waiting for whatever topper you’ve used that he likes the most. Will he eat it with the cooked meat or the egg etc? Or does he just eat that off the top and leave the kibble?

[Pitlove]

Marie-

We had a seminar recently about Primal for work. The rep was not very knowledgable and gave a lot of wrong information including that their recreational bones could be fed every day, that veterinary nutritionists were not specialists in canine nutrition and had little knowledge of it and that you could balance their grinds by rotating proteins if you didn’t want to add supplements or a base mix to balance it. Some of their formulas have calcium levels below AAFCO mins, but they claim all their formulas are safe for LBP’s, so I would be worried that other vitamin and mineral levels were reflected in the same way. Obviously long term that could result in deficencies. I also find it concerning when a company reports a food is LBP safe when it is not.

[Pitlove]

Hi there Shawna-

To the best of my knowledge Malassezia is the more common yeast found on dogs. I know this is what Bentley tested positive for a couple times. It seems to me that most people I talk to at work etc have said their dog was diagnoised with Malassezia and not Candida. So I base my advice on that.

I personally did use coconut oil with Bentley orally and topically, neither had an effect. Nothing positive, but also nothing negative. Aimee stated that Malassezia is a fat loving yeast, mostly the oils on the skin and not dietary fat. I do notice that bathing more frequently with Malaseb or something similar along with eliminating the allergen trigger has been the best combo for keeping the yeast away. I suppose it has to do with not allowing those oils on the skin to build.

[Pitlove]

Marie, I agree! We need to go with what works for our dogs. I guess my other half of the point that I did not state was, that when people are looking for advice because they haven’t found a solution (like we have), it gets confusing and aggravating when you are trying all the ideas presented on the internet and none of them are working because in reality none of them are based on fact.

Dr. Becker’s videos on yeast used to be my favorite and go to for help. I tried to get Bentley on the lowest carb food I could afford, went grain free (in fact he ate grain free for most of his life), etc. He continued to suffer because that information was not factual and does not work to treat Malassezia. I am actually very thankful that I can still feed kibble/canned with success because I am not in a position to feed raw or homecooked. And Primal (which is just about the only raw food we have a work now) is far too expensive, and I have concerns about using it long term.

[Pitlove]

Hi Marie-

Sounds like when you switched over to raw you unknowingly removed what was triggering your dogs yeast. Glad to hear it’s still working so well.

Don’t know why you are so against research but my point was not to argue that raw can’t work or grain free can’t work. It was to say that if you feed both of those diets but are also feeding what triggers the allergies and thus the yeast, it will not go away.

[Pitlove]

Hi Sherrie-

Yes part of what I stated was my own personal experience and the other part was fact based on clinical research. The fact that when I looked to clinical research and those who believed in it as well, for help with my dogs yeast, he got better, tells me that the base principle of treating yeast in dogs is what works. Determining the cause of the yeast infections and eliminating it from the diet or environment. That will mean different things for different dogs. My dog doing well on fish means nothing, but that MY dog does well on fish. It was not a suggestion, just an observation about my own dog. It is important to understand as the consumer that there is fact and truth that exists about canine nutrition and disease etc. Some look in all the wrong places for those facts and they are left feeling no closer to an answer than when they started.

The best place to start if you believe food is the culprit is at your vet and discuss doing an elimination diet, which is the golden standard for diagnosing food allergies/sensitivities. Blood testing is unrealiable and yields false positives and false negatives. No knowledgable vet will recommend blood testing over a food trial.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jazzlover-

I would have a look back at Aimee’s posts in this thread. She has it completely right about yeast. There is far too much misformation on the internet about yeast and some of it is even perpecuated by vets like Dr. Becker.

As Aimee mentioned previously, carbs DO NOT in fact feed yeast. Yeast infections are secondary to a primary cause. For instance in my pitbulls case, his hypersensitivities to certain ingredients in food like beef and duck cause him to get yeast infections under his nail beds, inbetween his digits and in his ears. He also has break outs around his mouth like acne and his mouth and inbetween his digits gets bright red and raw.

My boy has been completely yeast free for a few months now and he is not on raw and he is not on grain free. Raw and grain free are not automatically “anti-yeast” diets. Very common misconception that has been put out there on the internet as truth. Not all dogs need to go to raw or grain free to have their yeast issues solved. The key to treating yeast overgrowth is to find out the primary cause/trigger of the yeast overpopulation. Your dog naturally has yeast all over his/her body, but when something (like hypersensititivies or allergies) suppresses the immune system the body is off balance and can no longer keep the yeast from overpopulating. My dog does well on foods that have fish as the animal protein source and no wheat. He can eat other grains though without issue.

Also the only thing that has been clinically proven to kill yeast are shampoos that contain chlorhexidine gluconate, like Malaseb. There is no clinical proof that ACV kills yeast.

I’d like to add also that it will be much more difficult to treat the yeast if the primary trigger is environmental.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Fromm offers breeder bags (40lbs). We get them at work for a Shih Tzu breeder. Purina also offers the Pro Club for breeders/showers/dog enthusists with more than 5 dogs per household. I know they send checks for a $ amount off your food but I don’t know if they sell breeder bags like Fromm.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jr S-

Have you gotten any second opinions from different vets? I don’t believe any of the regulars have experience with this.

[Pitlove]

Hi David-

I responded to you on the other thread, but now that I see you have a Bulldog you definitely do not want to feed it EVO as it is an adult maintenance food and you have a dog whos breed is prone to hip dysplasia because of their stocky build. He should be fed an ALS or large breed puppy food with restricted calcium to help him grow slowly. This will reduce the risk of him developing hip dysplasia and any other developmental orthopedic disease.

[Pitlove]

Hi David- There are differences between adult and puppy food, but puppy food being the only one with high protein is not one of them. Plenty of ALS and adult maintenance foods have high protein. The most significant difference is puppy foods have higher calories and adult foods mostly have too much calcium for a large breed puppy.

EVO Herring & Salmon is an adult maintenance food and therefore should not be fed to a puppy. I would return it for something that is ALS or a growth formula.

[Pitlove]

Great choice S B. Good luck!

[Pitlove]

Most large breed foods will have bigger kibble and lower fat to help keep weight off them since we all know having an overweight large breed can be devasting to their joints. They also tend to add glucosamine and chondrotin to those foods, not that it matters since the amount is not theraputic.

Fromm Gold Large Breed Adult would be my suggestion.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

I agree with what anonymously said and think she has given you a good place to start.

I also just wanted to mention that you’re not harming him by getting him on a good eating regime by removing the food after 15-20 mins. Sometimes tough love is the way to go with certain dogs and if not, you can create an even more picky eater. I should know, I went through all this. Dogs thrive on a schedule and getting him back into one might actually be helpful if he is experiencing any grief for leaving his owner.

[Pitlove]

I prefer Elk Antlers (not Deer). I have a pitbull that is a power chewer and they work great/

[Pitlove]

Poor Sadie! Glad you found the cracked tooth though! I would filter search chewy.com for weight management formulas as they will be lower in fat. Weruva is a good one, but it’s very expensive to feed solo.

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