[Pitlove]

Hi Everyone posting-

Mars/Natura Pet has pulled all of the current products still on the market from all online retailers in an attempt to make a comeback in the independant retailers. Many independant retailers (my work included) are bringing EVO and California Natural back because of the lack of competition with online retailers now. Check their store locator periodically, I guarentee more retailers will be popping up in your area in an attempt to corner the market.

[Pitlove]

Hi Amy-

Does your vet offer another brand for a urinary support diet? Hill’s, Purina? They may have a food with better palatability. Purina especially.

If you want to try an OTC food please consult your vet before making any changes, not an internet forum. Best of luck!

[Pitlove]

Wonderful! I did not know that about Wellness. I do quite enjoy when companies provide their nutrient anaylsis for the general public. Makes it much easier for us large breed puppy lovers 🙂

I’m glad I could help and I hope he does very well on Wellness TruFood if that is the food you choose for him!

[Pitlove]

Hi Heather-

Which values for calcium and phosphorus did you use when you input them into the calculator? If it was those on the bag, those will not give you an accurate idea of if the food is LBP safe or not since it is only the minimum amount of calcium and phosphorus in the food.

You are correct that a food can be safe for a LBP without being called a “large breed puppy food”. WellnessCORE Puppy and Nulo Puppy are examples of this. That is the part where an email or phone call to the company is called for to obtain the max levels of calcium and phosphorus to input into the calculator tool on this site.

[Pitlove]

Hi Heather-

How did you determine Wellness TruFood Puppy was safe for a large breed puppy? Have you looked at WellnessCORE Puppy? It is grain free and already determined safe for large breed puppies. I would certainly not follow the advice above to NOT read labels. That is silly. However, you do need to call the company and ask follow up questions to determine if a food meets the needs of your dog.

Here is a recommendation to a pet parent from Dr. Rebecca Remilliard DVM, ACVN for how to select a large breed puppy formula: “Having said that, most nutritionists would agree that about 1-1.5% calcium is not harmful and safe. Secondly you want to feed a lower fat or lowest kcal/cup ….. to help control the growth rate now and prevent obesity later. I would suggest you select the food with the lower kcal/cup (350-375 kcal/cup), lower fat and higher fiber, if the calcium is about the same on both products.”

[Pitlove]

Hi Ef H-

There was a long discussion on the Bright Mind review that you may want to check out. I think you will find it interesting. Overall I think what was determined by some of the regular members on here was that the levels of MCT’s in Bright Mind can not be duplicated through supplementation, though many claim simply adding coconut oil to the dogs diet will achieve the same results as Bright Mind.

Personally, I’ve never understood choosing a dog food based on customer reviews. I am a firm believer in letting your dog tell you how he is doing on the food. Why not add some fresh foods or canned food to the diet to retain the benefits of the food, but get them interested in it again?

[Pitlove]

Hi Martha-

No there is no one recommended food for a dog that scratches. Mainly because the reasons for the scratching are different with each dog and some have nothing to do with food at all. You may want to discuss the scratching with your vet and talk about determining what the cause is. I would personally be weary of mail in hair and saliva tests for food allergies. They are notoriously inaccurate.

Also wanted to note that it seems that the Glacier Peak test is still unavailable for resale. Been like this for a few months now I believe.

[Pitlove]

Just to correct something…Malassezia yeast does NOT feed off of carbs as is rumored around the internet, so simply feeding a low carb diet will not achieve anything. Bobby Dog was correct in that way when she said food has nothing to do with yeast. The only role food plays in a yeasty dog is if the yeast is due to a food allergy. As I said my dog is eating a food with roughly 40% carbs with grain in it and his yeast has completely gone away because I’m no longer feeding any of his allergen triggers. I also bathe him in Malaseb shampoo which kills the yeast.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jillian-

My pitbull had Malassezia yeast overgrowth as well, due to his food allergies. It was so bad they thought he had demodex mange. Yeast is naturally occuring on the body, however when the immune system is suppressed (as it is with food allergies), the yeast overpopulate because the body is too out of wack to keep it under control. Since doing a food trial through the vet and getting him on a fish and grain based diet, his yeast is gone. I would definitely have a skin scrape done at the vet to determine if it is infact yeast that is causing the smell. Then you need to figure out the primary cause. Each case is individual to the dog and what works for one may not work for another.

[Pitlove]

How has Libby been doing on Blue? Was this the food she vomits once a month on? I’m not sure if you said already, sorry. If you are interested in changing foods, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy is also chicken and rice based, however it is technically an All Life Stages food so your 13 year old dog could eat it as well. Then there would not be the issue of Libby eating a food that she could be sensitive to.

Large Breed Puppy

[Pitlove]

That is a make shift food trial basically. Is her current food still Fromm? As far as her getting into the other dogs food, can you feed her seperately or watch them closely so you can stop her if she tries to eat the 13 year olds food? That is what I do with my dogs, especially now that my pitbull has a new lease on life and is no longer picky about food lol.

[Pitlove]

I was told by many people to avoid chicken for my food allergic pitbull as well. It turned out beef was in fact the problem. In fact he does not do well on any red meat. Could be the same for your pup and that is why she is reacting to the Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, as it has lamb in it. We also switched off NexGard for the same reason (the beef), as per the vet.

Large Breed Puppy formulas are designed with a growing LBP in mind. They will not cause your pup to gain weight unless you overfeed. It is a tired old myth to feed a LBP an adult maintenance food, though a lot of breeders, dog clubs, and vets still recommend it. You are absolutely making the right choice in keeping her on a large breed puppy food.

No self respecting vet will suggest an allergy blood panel as they are notorious for being inaccurate. The only way to properly diagnose a food allergy is by a food trial either with a homecooked diet of a single novel protein and carb or the hydrolyzed protein vet diet. That is what we did for our pitbull and he is doing excellent now on a fish based diet that is grain inclusive. He does terrible on grain free foods.

[Pitlove]

Hi Robert-

While there might not be specific nutritional requirements for an 18 month old GSD, many choose to use a food geared toward large breed adults because they tend to be formulated with lower fat and often times larger pieces of kibble. I personally do use large breed adult formulas for my pitbull and lab for those reasons. When my lab eats a small kibble it falls out of his mouth and makes a mess.

18 months is the correct age to transition him to an adult food, so your vet is correct. Dr. Tim’s, Victor, Fromm or NutriSource would be my suggestion.

[Pitlove]

Hi Laura-

It is actually recommended by most veterinary nutritionists to keep a large breed puppy on a large breed puppy formula until 18 months of age. What foods has she eaten and what is she eating right now? Will make it easier for me to help with a recommendation if I can look at the ingredient panel of what she is currently eating.

[Pitlove]

Hi Sue-

Large breed puppies have much different dietary requirements than small and medium breeds. These dogs are at high risk for developmental orthopedic disorders caused by genetics, but also poor nutrition. It is important to watch calcium intake, so I would heed the suggestion to add too many toppers to the dry kibble during growth or use something like Trippett which has very low calcium and phosphorus.

The two companies that have done the most research in regards to large and giant breed nutrition and growth are Hill’s and Purina. A puppy food geared towards large breeds from one of those two companies would be a fine choice. However, I do understand that there are those who do not feel comfortable feeding diets from Hill’s and Purina. A few other LBP safe foods I can suggest that are from smaller companies are: NutriSource Large Breed Puppy, Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy, Nulo Puppy, Solid Gold Wolf Cub, and Dr. Tim’s Kinesis. If you can order online, these are all available on chewy.com.

Another important thing to remember is not to overfeed, as excess weight puts strain on the developing joints and can also lead to orthopedic disorders. Shepherds are meant to be lean by breed standard, so it is best to keep them that way during growth and throughout life.

Edit: In regards to your question about Rachael Ray Nutrish. How does the other dog do on it? How is the stool quality? Does she get a clean bill of health from the vet? Does she enjoy eating the food? Your dog is the only one who can tell you how the food is working for her. The opinions of others are irrelevant.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jodi-

Treats are just that, a treat. They are meant to be a high value reward for training, not part of their daily diet IMO. That is why they should only make up 10% or less of your dogs daily caloric intake so as to not imbalance their already balanced diet. If you are asking about treats for the purpose of training, the higher value the better.

[Pitlove]

Hi Glenda-

Has he always been this way or is this a recent development? If it is more recent you may want to rule out anything medically wrong.

[Pitlove]

Elaine-

Please discuss ANY changes to diet with your vet before switching off the prescription food. Diabetes is a case by case situation and not all diabetic dogs need the same things. In fact a customer of ours was interested in Primal for her diabetic dog, however the vet had told her that her particular dog needed low fat to manage the diabetes. Primal ended up being way too high in fat and thankfully the customer dodged a huge bullet by not buying it.

None of us here have examined your dog and we were not the ones who diganosed her diabetes, therefore we are not the best people to make recommendations for foods.

[Pitlove]

Hi Stacy-

Have you spoken to your vet about the consistant soft stool? What suggestions have they given you for types and amounts of fiber? It is odd that all of your dogs are experiencing the same stool quality.

[Pitlove]

Hi Rox B-

I’ve heard that same song many times before. I am well aware of the way that raw feeders look down upon allopathic vet’s. I however, intern at a vet’s office and see quite a different picture than what you see. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Pitlove]

Hi Rox B-

The independent study was done by 4 veterinarians at UC Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine.

Here is a link to a discussion of the study: https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/homemade-dog-food-recipes-can-be-risky-business-study-finds

[Pitlove]

Over 200 raw and home cooked recipes found over the Internet were tested for nutritional adequacy and only about 8 or 9 were not nutritionally deficient. Those 8 or 9 were all recipes made by boarded veterinary nutritionists. I personally would not take a chance on my dogs health by following the recipes on a Facebook page written by someone who may or may not have a background in canine nutrition, but that’s just me.

[Pitlove]

Hi Julia-

Your GSD is a large breed and you need to be extremely careful about how much calcium he is getting in his diet. Too much and he is at high risk for developmental orthopedic disorders. Not to mention if he is an AKC GSD I would be even more careful since they are now being bred to have a sloped roach back.

Raw diets are very difficult to balance without the help of a board certified veterinary nutritionist. I would highly recommend seeking out the help of one before continueing this diet.

[Pitlove]

Hi Mariet-

Orijen Large Puppy is formulated to be safe for a large breed puppy, however you will not know how she does on it until you feed it. Make sure and tranisition her from her old food to Orijen.

[Pitlove]

That answer does not make any sense to me either, as any breed that will be over 50lbs at mature weight is considered a large breed and should be fed a calcium restricted diet to reduce risk for DOD’s. I’d like to know their explanation for that. Yes, personally I would switch to Wolf Cub if you want to stay within Solid Gold.

[Pitlove]

Hi Thomas-

There is not much basis for breed specific nutrition, as not enough is known yet to determine if each individual breed has it’s own very specific nutritional requirements. At best these breed specific formulas are marketing to entice the owner (as is just about all the wording on the front of the bag is).

Feed what she enjoys eating and what she does best on (e.g good stool, clean bill of health from the vet, healthy coat & skin, ideal weight etc etc). Let her tell you what is working for her and what is not.

[Pitlove]

Hi James-

When you requested the calcium and phosphorus from the company did you make sure to specifically ask for the MAX levels? When I spoke to a rep from Solid Gold, I asked if any other formulas besides Wolf Cub were truly large breed puppy safe and she said no… I was confused about that since they have other formulas that say for medium to large breeds. Personally I’d play it safe and go with Wolf Cub.

[Pitlove]

Very well put Bobby Dog!

[Pitlove]

Hi Ronald-

Here is what veterinary nutritionist Dr. Rebecca Remillard says in response to a similar question on her website petdiets.com, when asked about arsenic levels in rice.

“”Am I overreacting?” The short answer is yes … the reason is that recently the level of arsenic was measured in rice … it had not been measured previously, and the feds do not have a reference range for rice so the media compared it to the reference range in drinking water which is not valid. They are working a determining a safe vs toxic Ar range. In the meantime, the odds are b/c Ar has been in rice (normally taken up from the soil) since the beginning of time, the current levels are what they have always been. Given we do not have an epidemic of Ar toxic in any species eating the rice, the newly discovered levels are presumed to be safe.”

As for Carageenan- Here is the opinion of holistic vet Dr. Randy Wysong, maker of Wysong Pet Foods

“Q: I just read an article about carageenan being a carcinogen, and started checking labels of canned pet foods and found it is tough to find one without carageenan. What does Dr. Wysong think of carageenan as a food ingredient? The article I read said it is a carcinogen for both humans and pets. I don’t see it listed in the few Wysong foods I surfed but it is pretty much in everything else.

A: Keep in mind that everything is a potential carcinogen and studies can be found arguing the dangers of practically anything. But it is the dose that makes the poison. This would apply to carageenan as well”

[Pitlove]

Hi Harish-

Do you think you could provide a more comprehensive list of foods available to you in India? So far of the 2 you listed I would choose the Royal Canin Maxi Puppy formula if you can get that as it is designed for large/giant breeds.

[Pitlove]

From chewy.com Acana Lamb Singles:

Lamb meal, deboned lamb, green lentils, red lentils, lamb liver, apples, lamb fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin, carrots, lamb tripe, lamb kidney, freeze-dried lamb liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, zinc proteinate

New formula: Deboned lamb*, lamb meal, whole green peas, red lentils, lamb liver*, lamb fat, pinto beans, chickpeas, herring oil, green lentils, whole yellow peas, sun-cured alfalfa, Red Delicious apples*, natural lamb flavor, lamb tripe*, lamb kidney*, lamb cartilage*, dried kelp, whole pumpkin*, whole butternut squash*, kale,* spinach*, mustard greens*, collard greens*, turnip greens*, whole carrots*, Bartlett pears*, freeze-dried lamb liver, freeze-dried lamb tripe, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, zinc proteinate, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, turmeric, sarsaparilla root, althea root, rosehips, juniper berries, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium animalis fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product. * delivered fresh or raw

As you can see they have added a lot more ingredients most of which will not necessarily add nutritional value to the food. I do find it funny to see an entire meal you would feed to a Bearded Dragon though! (kale,* spinach*, mustard greens*, collard greens*, turnip greens*)

[Pitlove]

Hi-

I work at a store that sells both Orijen and Acana. As of right now Orijen has not changed because it is still being solely manufactured out of Canada. There is talk (and this most likely will happen) of Orijen being moved over to the DogStar plant in the future. Orijen is however about to down size their large bags to a 25lb and slightly decrease the price (which they just recently increased). What I have heard from a few reps is that a lot of loyal Champion customers are not happy with the foods coming out of the new plant. In fact a few people on the review side have mentioned finding pieces of plastic in the new Acana Hertiage line. Guess time will tell as they are probably trying to get into the swing of things.

As for Acana…If you compare the old bag to the new bag you will see not a whole lot has changed except for rearranging a few items and adding several most likely unnecessary items at the end of the ingredient list like rose hips and juniper berries.

[Pitlove]

Hi Allie-

I see that most of your research has been browsing through the opinions of other pet parents with similar situations. The problem with that is exactly what you have come across…SO many different view points, so many different opinions. Makes it impossible to know what the best coarse of action is for YOUR dog.

It sounds to me like this is a very invididualized case (since he is also eating other foreign objects that he shouldn’t be) that needs the attention of a trusted vet. They will be able to exam your dog and help you determine the cause. Until then, the more you change, the harder it will be to pin-point the cause.

As for the food…Acana might have too much or the wrong kind of fiber for your dogs digestive system given that he is pooping 3-5 times a day. It sounds like this may not be the best food for your dog. However, I would make an appointment with the vet before changing foods and also ask about the frequent bowel movements to confirm.

[Pitlove]

Hi Naturella-

This was Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN answer when asked a similar question:
“The immune system does not react to carb, fat, fiber, vitamin or a mineral – only a protein.”

She does say earlier on though that within carbs there is a protein fraction of about 10% that dogs can react to. I do not believe there to be a protein fraction within fat.

[Pitlove]

Hi Tom-

Medical reasons always want to be ruled out when a once food loving dog starts turning food down. I would schedule a visit with your vet as this may not be related to loss of interest in the food.

[Pitlove]

What about another variety within Natural Balance, like the Rabbit and Potato?

[Pitlove]

Hi S B-

What is his activity level like? Are you guys exercising him a lot or does the vet feel he has a high metabolism? Personally I wouldn’t add anything else right now to the diet since he’s still growing. I would just increase the food until he puts the weight back on, then feed to maintain that weight.

[Pitlove]

Hi Chandra-

I would recommend inlisting the help of a veterinary nutritionist to properly balance a raw diet for a growing puppy, not to mention him being a large breed and prone to orthopedic disorders especially if hes bred as AKC show quality. You can find a list of board certified veterinary nutritionists through the ACVN website. This is the safest route to ensure he is getting proper nutrition.

[Pitlove]

Hi Sandra-

You may want to check with your vet as to what for your dogs situation constitutes “low protein and fat” as it may differ case to case. I would do this before purchasing any OTC foods.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jonathan-

I don’t feel that diet rotation or star rating is critical at this juncture for your dog. Labs are large breeds and prone to the same DOD’s (developmental orthopedic disorders) as any other large breed is. Genetics plays a role in the expression of these disorders, however nutritionists are finding more and more that in some cases proper diet can manage and reduce the risk of these DOD’s. Up until he’s roughly 18 months of age, the most important thing is keeping him on a puppy food that is suitable for a growing large breed, which means it will have restricted calcium and calories. Some All Life Stages foods do meet these requirements, but it can be challenging doing all the research and emailing required to figure out which ones are. The two companies that have done the most research on large breed puppy growth and DOD’s are Hill’s and Purina, but if you are opposed to using one of those brands then I would look at NutriSource Large Breed Puppy, Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy, Solid Gold Wolf Cub, Dr. Tim’s Kinesis or Nulo Puppy.

If you want to rotate these foods I suppose you could, but you may not want to start that during a critical growth period in case something does happen (DOD).

Hope this was helpful!

[Pitlove]

Hi Dog Pack Mom-

You may find the website petdiets.com helpful. It is a site made by a ACVN certified veterinary nutritionist. She and other nutritionists will answer questions pet owners have in their “Ask the Nutritionist” section. You can also read their answers to other pet owners questions as well.

[Pitlove]

Hi Nikkie-

Welcome to the forums. Firstly, it sounds like your boy is not going to be inheriting the large size of the bloodhound and is probably just about done growing if he is at 35lbs and almost a year old. In another month he’s probably good to go on an adult maintenance or all life stages formula.

It is definitely strange that sometimes the stool quality is really good and sometimes really poor. It does not really make sense (to me at least) that sometimes his body is absorbing the nutrients better than other times, but perhaps it has to do with his strange eating habits. I definitely agree with anonymously’s suggestion of the Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach. It’s formulated without corn, wheat and soy and has excellent digestability and for a fish based food seems to have good palatability. Orijen is probably going to be way out of your price range.

Saying a “good food = good urine and bowels” is a bit too general because “good” can mean a lot of things. The best dog food is the one your dog does the best on and part of that is having high bioavialibility and high digestibility. Some of the “top rated” foods on here have poor digestibility or they don’t agree with the dogs stomach for a variety of reasons or they have poor palatability and the dog won’t touch it which renders the food useless. The 2.5-3 star or 4 star foods are probably a good place to start, but just remember, if your dog does well on the food that is what matters, not the star rating. BTW there are actually a couple of 5 star foods that are reasonably priced (Dr. Tim’s for example). Just depends on how much you want to pay per lb.

[Pitlove]

Hi Dog Pack Mom-

Regarding the yeast…have your dogs been diagnosed with yeast by a vet? If so what kind? If it is Malassezia yeast, reducing carbohydrate intake will have no effect as it does not feed off of carbs. My dog with severe yeast problems has finally found relief and is eating a kibble with over 40% carbs.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jen-

Just something I wanted to point out to you. If your dog at 5 months old weighed 70 pounds she would be highly overweight or have grown way too fast and would probably have a DOD. Use the Purina Body Condition Score to determine ideal weight visually. You can find it on google. If you can feel a thin layer of fat over her ribs and from an above view she has a waist line she is at a good weight.

[Pitlove]

You hit the nail on the head Justin. Sometimes the “best” foods according to this website are the worst for your dog and vise versa.

[Pitlove]

Hi Justin-

Pro Plan has excellent digestibility which is probably why you are seeing better stool quality with that. If that is what he does well on, you may want to listen to what his body is telling you.

[Pitlove]

I did forget to ask who cans for them however the rep told me he will be in here every 5 weeks. I can also email him you’d like that info. He did say the cans were BPA free and did not contain carageenan though. The canned cat food has been selling decently for us as well given how new this brand is to us.

[Pitlove]

Hey Jenn-

I’m not sure where you got to with Nulo, but I have an update for you. We just had a seminar at work about the brand with a very knowledgeable rep.

He told me the food is manufactured by a company called CJ’s. They chose that manufacturer because they would allow them to have Nulo staff on site to oversee quality control. He also told me that they do employ, on staff, a veterinary nutritionist who has a team he consults with when formulating. He also was able to provide me right then and there with a nutrient analysis of their puppy formula so I could see the calcium and phosphorus. By their numbers its a 1.0:1 ca/p ratio and a 2.9 for the calcium to calorie. So really on the low end.

[Pitlove]

No Taste of the Wild was not bought out. They are still made by Diamond. We carry TotW at the small pet store I work at and have heard nothing of the sort from the company.

[Pitlove]

Whichever person entered the as fed or max calcium and phosphorus has the correct data. I believe the OP has the max levels

[Author]

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