[crazy4cats]

Yes, Joanne, trust your instincts and go with a large company that has been around for a while. They also should have a vet nutritionist on staff. If you don’t want to feed a food made by Mars (Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Iams), Purina or Hills, check out Annamaet. They are also getting praises from some of the vets on the FB group I’m following.

We absolutely cannot tell the quality of a food by looking at the label. We have to go with a company we trust to do it correctly. Corn, rice, barley and oatmeal are not evil ingredients as long as you choose a company that uses the high quality stuff. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

My advice would be to stay away from Acana. It has WAY too may legumes on the ingredient list! FDA put out a warning that foods that contain a large amount of legumes and/or potatoes can somehow cause a taurine deficiency in dogs. Which in time could cause heart issues.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne-
In my opinion, the big dog food companies are the safest to go with. They have the most money to do the most research, own their own manufacturing facilities, have the best safety protocols, employ certified veterinary nutritionists, do the most testing and buy the top ingredients.

Do not feed Acana or Zignature. They are full of legumes and show very poor results on Dr. Stern’s taurine data table found on the taurine-deficient FB group’s page.

Good,luck!

[crazy4cats]

Cynthia P-
I think Royal Canin is a great choice. It is recommended by Josh Stern, the cardiologist that is conducting the research at UC Davis involving taurine deficiency possibly due to high volumes of legumes and potatoes in dog food.

Join the taurine-deficient Dilated Cardiomyapathy FB group for more information. There is a lot of good info. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Agreed, Pitlove! Another thread will probably be closed due to her/his “bullying”. She/he accuses everyone else, but she is the worse I’ve seen on DFA, and I’ve been around for a long time! (Prob too long).

Not sure why Anon is still allowed to post?

[crazy4cats]

I rotate my dogs’ brands and flavors often. In light of the recent discovery of legumes and potatoes possibly inhibiting the absorption and production of taurine in dogs, I’m glad I do. I have been rotating between both food with and without grain for quite some time. I hope it has helped my dogs avoid an enlarged heart caused by taurine deficiency. I haven’t had them checked yet. Fingers crossed!

I’m sticking to the “big three” brands from now on.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Paul G-
Congratulations on your new bundle of joy!! How old is he?

Here is an article that may be helpful to you:
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

If I were to get a new large breed puppy now, I would only feed it a food made by either Mars (such as Royal Canin, Iams, or Eukanuba), Hills, or Purina. They have been around for a long time and have proven to be successful.

Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Here is another article that Joshua Stern, Veterinary Cardiologist at UC Davis, has posted on the Taurine Deficiency FB page:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2018/08/29/grain-free-exotic-dog-food-linked-to-heart-disease/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6e32a6859fc0

[crazy4cats]

Hi JS-
Price and higher fat percentage would be my biggest concern. However, there are a few companies that have kibble that they say can be fed to both. Wysong is one of them. I can’t remember the other at the moment.
Epigen™

Good luck to you!

[crazy4cats]

Aime-
Wow! Keep them honest! Thanks for all you do.

[crazy4cats]

Hey, that is great news! Maybe that will set some people’s minds at ease that not every dog on grain free will end up with a broken heart. Sounds like you are taking great care of Koby. Best wishes to you!

[crazy4cats]

Glad you found it. Sounds good, please let us all know how the test comes out. Best wishes!

[crazy4cats]

But, are they preventing the absorption and/or the production of it too? I don’t think they really know the answer to that. Or, really anything.

But, I agree why take the risk until they figure it out. There does seem to be some type of correlation.

[crazy4cats]

Mark C-
What are you feeding your dog? Could you switch to a lower calorie food in lieu of adding sweet potato to the food?

If you feed a lower calorie food you can feed more, or you could add a quality low fat/calorie canned good to it adding moisture and possibly making the dog feel more satisfied.

I’m actually a fan of sweet potatoes. My dogs do well with them used as the carb in their kibble. But at this time, I’m keeping them to a minimum. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

A week or two ago, Anon, you said the FDA alert was BOGUS. Followed up by Legumes Rock! Of course the post has been deleted along with many of your other posts on the review side of this site. It’s not a rumor, Acana was named in a report from UC Davis and I saw Acana and Zignature along with several other foods on the Diet & Taurine Table. Actually a few dogs fed Fromm are also on the table as having low taurine.

http://mckeevervetderm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/543/2017/09/TaurineDef.Goldens.pdf

Susan K- If you join the Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy FB group, you will see the most up to date spreadsheet for the Diet & Taurine Table. I know someone posted it on this site, but they ask not to republish it. It has been updated since it was posted here.

They are not saying the food has caused the low taurine levels yet. They are just collecting data so far. You might be right, it could just be Goldens tendency to have it. Or could be coincidental that a lot of dogs are just eating grain free foods these days. Who knows?

It’s always been thought that dogs made their own taurine from other amino acids and didn’t need supplementation like cats do. I wonder what is going on with these dogs??? I hope they figure it out soon!

[crazy4cats]

The two brands I’ve heard mentioned and seen on some spreadsheets are Acana and Zignature, not grocery store foods.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne-
I have fed a lot of grain free WEF, Victor and TOTW along with some Purina, Fromm, Eagle Pack, Iams and Authority with grains. I’ve never thought grain free was necessarily better, but my dogs seem to do better poop wise with a little higher fiber. They had a rough start with parasites when they were pups and tend to have loose stools ever since.

Fromm Gold weight control is not grain free, but is fairly high in fiber and now am wondering if that is an issue now too. I am planning on switching to their reduced activity recipe instead which is a little lower in fiber.

It’s hard to know if there truly is a grain free concern since there is such a small sample of dogs so far. But having two lab/golden mix dogs, I’m going to play it safe. Both breeds are mentioned often in the different reports I’ve read.

I feed my cats about half Royal Canin kibble and half various canned food. RC is a little too expensive for our pet budget for two large dogs, however.

It doesn’t sound like your dog is sensitive to chicken. It’s so hard to tell with kibble because there are so many ingredients. Also, if your dog is anything like mine, they get into things they shouldn’t. Also, environmental allergies can also be an issue. The only way to know for sure is to do a true elimination diet with a hypoallergenic Rx dog food.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joann-
Whole Earth Farms adult recipe lists oatmeal as its first ingredient after chicken meal and turkey meal. I’m considering it as well.

[crazy4cats]

Hi joanne l-
This author shares the same thoughts!

https://thebestdogtreats.com/taurine-deficiency-in-dogs-diseases-caused-by-amino-acid-deficiency#

I’m not sure what her credentials are, but I thought it was interesting.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Sarah C-

I sure hope that your dog’s DCM diagnosis is due to her diet. There is a FaceBook page called Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy that is very informative. They seem to be in contact with John Stern from UC Davis who is conducting a study on the issue right now. They might be interested in data that you have to offer.

Have you talked to your vet about your pup’s situation yet? The dogs that are participating in the study are being fed Royal Canin’s GR recipe and seem to be doing well.

Good luck to you!

[crazy4cats]

Have you tried the Hill’s or Purina for diabetes? I’m sorry you are going thru this. One of my dogs has been getting a little picky lately and it’s frustrating. I think he just wants what we’re eating!

Purina might be more palatable. Just don’t look at the ingredients! Remember they’re dogs, not humans and they have different requirements than us. I went thru the same thing with my cat with urinary issues. I’ve been feeding RC vet food to him for 3 years with no more problems. It’s not a food I’d pick out for him by looking at the ingredients. But I certainly don’t want another blockage! Difference being, however, he likes the food.

Talk to your vet about a different brand for diabetes explaining what you are going thru trying to get him to eat. Try a different vet if this one isn’t helpful. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Linda K-
You could always talk to your vet and possibly have a taurine blood test to see how your pup is doing. It’s probably tough for you to switch foods after finally finding something that works well. The test might set your mind at ease.

It is pretty early in their investigation into this matter. I’m choosing to skip on grain free until more is found out. But, my vet did not seem too overly concerned since there is no definitive answer yet. My dogs do fine on food with grains though. So, it’s not a big deal to switch foods. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

The Purina DentaLife chews are not soft and rubbery like many of the others. They are porous with little air pockets. That’s why I really like them for my two large dogs. Not to mention I just ordered a big bag thru Chewy for only $6.19. They are listed on: http://www.vohc.org/accepted_products_dogs.html

We do give our dogs bully sticks to gnaw on once in a while too. Yuck! 😀

[crazy4cats]

Yes, please post the results if you don’t mind. I’m very interested. I use BalanceiT supplement to balance my dogs’ homemade meals. It hardly has any smell or taste to it.

Hope your pup passes with flying colors!

[crazy4cats]

Do you now exactly which grain makes your dog itchy? I remember somebody mentioning an Earthborn fish formula that might work for you.

[crazy4cats]

You’re welcome. I have fed a lot of WEF grain free as well. You know one of their grain inclusive formulas uses oatmeal as one of its main carbs. I might check that one out as well. My dogs do well with oatmeal when I make them a homemade meal.
As far as what grade of corn is used in the food, many brands websites will state what grade they use. If not you can email or call them.

In fact, I just emailed Iams and here is their reply:

Thank you for contacting the IAMS® Brand.

We appreciate your interest in our IAMS® ProActive Healthy Labrador Retriever dry dog food and I am happy to address your inquiry.

We can proudly say that all of our corn comes for the United States. While our corn is harvested from multiple different states, we can assure you that all of corn suppliers have passed through our Supplier Quality Assurance program, in which they must meet and preferably exceed our internal quality requirements, as well as the requirements of regulatory bodies. Additionally, we only use high-quality corn that is finely ground to break up the outside covering of each kernel, then cooked at high temperatures. This process makes the corn meal in our foods highly digestible and an excellent carbohydrate source.

I hope this is helpful. If you have additional questions or comments feel free to give us a call at 1-800-525-4267, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. Central time.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Kathryn
IAMS® Brand
Consumer Relations
1-800-525-4267

They don’t really say what grade so I am going to reply and see if I can get a more specific answer.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-

Off that VOHC list that Tyrion posted, I like the DentaLife Daily Oral chews for my dogs.

I have also fed the Pedigree Dentalstix. They often have them at Costco and they are a good price! My dogs are seven and have not had to have their teeth cleaned yet. I try to give them some type of dental chew every night. I switch between the cheaper and ones and the vohc approved ones. I’m not crazy about greenies either, but do buy them now and then. They are EXPENSIVE!

Give the Purina chews a look too. They aren’t quite as expensive.

You could also buy the VOHC approved dental kibble and give it the your dog as a snack. I do that with my kitties.

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by crazy4cats.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Angela S-
That’s a great question! I’m trying to figure that out. LOL! Right now I am feeding Fromm Gold Weight Management. It is a little high in fiber so I may switch to their Reduced Activity Formula. I have also fed a lot of kibble that contains peas and potatoes. But, I am not worried. They are not showing any signs of DCM. However, they just got over a bad case of kennel cough. The coughing scared me at first with it being a symptom of DCM. But, it’s all gone now. They even had the Bordatella vaccine! I guess it is very bad in our area right now and their can be different strains, just like the flu.

So, I have done a 180 since I started on this site. I don’t believe the big companies are evil and I will probably stick with them in addition to Fromm. I really don’t think corn is bad as long as you are feeding a reputable brand that uses high quality corn, grade 1 or 2. I have fed Iams and they are on my list to feed again. In fact, I think corn makes the dogs coat soft and shiny.

Here are a few interesting links about corn:

Can Dogs Eat Corn?

http://www.askavetquestion.com/nutrition/corn/

I also have Purina One, Purina Pro Plan, Authority, Eagle Pack (Made by WellPet) and Iams on my list to feed. Iams is made by Mars who also makes Royal Canin. I feed my cats RC kibble and mostly Purina canned. RC is too expensive to feed my two 85 pound lab/retriever mix pups though.

Even though my dogs do well on kibble with potatoes and peas, I will not be feeding them if they are the only carbs in the kibble anymore. At least until more information comes out. I also add a little canned to their meals, hopefully adding a little more meat protein to their diets.

Good luck. This is a scary and frustrating time.

[crazy4cats]

Wow, Marie! You’re gonna have all new parts! Hope all goes well.

[crazy4cats]

You’re right, Stacy, the first article is very interesting! A couple of posters, BobbyDog and Aimee brought up some of those very questions on whether or not the diets just are not appropriately balanced and/or maybe the amount fiber or source of fiber may have an impact on taurine absorption. I’ve never heard of wagglydogs. Interesting site. Thanks!

And, I believe they are correct on the enormous impact that FDA statement may make on the dog food industry!

[crazy4cats]

How long is the puppy in his play pen?

[crazy4cats]

Another good article! I especially like where the author writes: “Grain-free diets also are not hypoallergenic and are truly only medically necessary in a very small number of cases,” she said.

There are many companies that falsely advertise their grain free recipes as “hypoallergenic”.

The answer is probably not going to come quick, so I’d rather be safe than sorry!

[crazy4cats]

I think it is really sad that so many people think that veterinarians that spend 8 to 9 years in school accumulating thousands and thousands of dollars in debt, are out to make dogs sick. Yet, they believe a charismatic evangelical type veterinarian that makes millions of dollars off of supplements that she sells claiming that our pets simply cannot live without them! She also makes a mint off of selling books and videos. In addition is also constantly putting down her fellow veterinarians that are not “holistic” attempting to make them sound foolish.

Just my 2 cents.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Linda G-
That is a great article. Thanks for posting!

I will be feeding very little if any grain free food from now on. I had been rotating between grain free and grain inclusive kibble, but will probably discontinue with grain free until more is found out. My dogs are a lab/golden retriever mix which seems to be mentioned in most of the articles. I do not feel strongly about feeding grain free anyway, so why take the risk?

I’ve never understood why so many people think that legumes and potatoes are better than grains anyway! My dogs do well with kibble that includes oatmeal as their main carb.

Good luck everyone, this is a little scary!

[crazy4cats]

Sounds like the pup is in good hands! Thank you for the info on the taurine supplement. I am feeding a Whole Earth Farms grain free kibble right now and may look into adding taurine as well. I was wondering if it was recommended to give it on an empty stomach in order for it to be absorbed better? I have bought a supplement made by Thorne before. They are pricey!

[crazy4cats]

Umm, it was actually her vet that recommended swimming since they have a pool.

Doginlaw, I’m curious about the taurine supplement your vet recommended if you stick with a grain free food. Is that something that you buy from the vet? Or did he/she recommend a certain brand or place to buy it? Taurine deficiency seems to be the latest hot topic.

[crazy4cats]

Who knows? Maybe the dog will still need surgery. But, losing weight would be a good start. If you do go the swimming route, make sure to dry his ears afterwards really well. Even try to keep them folded back for a while. I think mine look really cute when I do this. LOL! I also try to check their ears regularly and clean them with Zymox ear cleaner if necessary. If they already have an infection, you probably will need a prescription to clean them out.

Labs are notorious for ear issues. Especially, if they like the water!

[crazy4cats]

Doginlaw-

I’m not sure how adding a bit of protein and a splash of water to a high calorie food will help with weight loss? But, the fish and potato formula that Tyrionthebiscuit mentioned is only 360 calories per cup. It might be worth checking out!

In addition, I also feed Purina Pro Plan, Purina One, Eagle Pack, Authority and Victor weight management kibble with success. Some of these may not have potatoes if you are trying to avoid them. My dogs do fine with them.

Again, I think weight loss would really benefit your pup.

Best wishes!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Graciela-
Sorry to hear about your pup! You could try http://www.balanceit.com to formulate a recipe for your dog. However, if your dog has a health condition, they need to work with your vet a bit to ensure it fits your dog’s needs.

I have a cat who produces struvite crystals and ended up with a life threatening blockage about 3 or 4 years ago. Since then, I have been feeding him Royal Canin kibble with an s/o index. They actually have five or six formulas with the s/o index for cats. I feed him the one called “Calm”. I think they have it for dogs too.

He hasn’t had another issue. I also feed him canned and have a water fountain to ensure that he gets plenty of moisture in his diet.

I believe the s/o index helps prevent further stones. I just don’t look at the ingredients. Just the results!!

Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi doginlaw-

Zignature is pretty high in fat and calories. I’d get him on a lower calorie food to lose weight. That will help immensely!

I have chubby labs and I try to keep their kibble on average at 350 calories per cup. Fromm has a senior/reduced activity recipe that you may want to look into. Also, more often than not, grain free food does not cure allergies. Especially, if they are environmental.

Swimming is an excellent idea! Good luck with your pup!

[crazy4cats]

Do you have any idea what he was eating before you rescued him?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Amelia-
Have you checked out any of the Fromm Gold recipes. They do contain grain, but they are a respected company that has been around for a long time. I trust that their grains are top quality and you need’nt worry about them being contaminated. Has your dog improved at all yet with the diet change?

[crazy4cats]

I have used the balanceiT website that is run by veterinary nutritionists to formulate two or three recipes. You choose the ingredients and how high in protein and fat you want. You need to buy their supplement to make it complete and balanced. My dogs love them.

The recipes are free as long as your dog does not have a medical condition requiring vet approval. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Try http://www.balanceit.com. It is run by veterinary nutritionists that will work with you and your vet to formulate a recipe for your dogs’ health conditions. They have free recipes for pets without medical conditions.

[crazy4cats]

It doesn’t matter how much protein is in the diet or where it comes from if the taurine from it cannot be absorbed due to other ingredients in the food possibly blocking or binding it somehow.

That is what the study is trying to find out. So far, it looks like dogs fed certain grain free foods for a period of time are showing up with heart issues at a faster rate than normal. It’s not necessarily about how much protein is in the food.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by crazy4cats.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I like Fromm, Purina Pro Plan, Victor, Eagle Pack, Authority and Whole Earth Farms weight control kibble formulas for my two chubby golden labs. You really have to pay attention to how many calories per cup they have. Also, how many treats you feed and how much exercise they get.

I also add a little canned to their meals. It makes low fat kibble more palatable and adds moisture to their diet hopefully helping with making them feel more satiated. However, I must warn you that now if I do not add canned or something to it, one of my dogs may not eat it. Spoiled brat! Lol!

Good luck to you!

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by crazy4cats. Reason: Added Authority

[crazy4cats]

I agree with Pitlove. I had to shake my head when I read Dr. Becker’s article. She sure made a lot of assumptions and conclusions that were not in any of the studies I have read so far. I feel she is using this new possible issue to promote her agenda!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Tara-

Congratulations on your new pup. Sounds like she’s having a bit of a rough start. I would not change anything yet! She has already been through so much. Most of the time it’s best to leave a new puppy on the food they were eating when you first get them. This allows them to get settled in a bit before you switch things up. However, it’s too late for that. Pumpkin never worked for me either. Let her tummy settle down a bit after finishing up her meds and dewormer.

Did the vet recommend using FortiFlora? That always seems to help my dogs when they get loose stools. Are you feeding 3 or 4 small meals to her? Also, if her UTI pills are an antibiotic, they tend to give dogs (and humans) loose stools. I know it’s tough because I’ve been there. Constantly changing things can make it worse. You’ll never figure out what is causing the issue then. As long as she’s staying hydrated she’ll be OK.

Give it another week and ask your vet about a probiotic, such as FortiFlora. I’m curious, how was she doing on Beneful when you got her? Also, do you know how big she will get?

I’d love to know how she is doing. I went through something similar with my dogs. Report back and good luck!

[crazy4cats]

My dogs digest grains just fine, especially oatmeal and corn. You just have to make sure you are buying a brand that uses grade 1 ingredients. It’s real tough, actually impossible to tell by the label the quality of the ingredients. Not all chicken meal, beef meal, corn, etc. are created equal. You have to go with a company that you trust.

I, for one, am taking this report seriously. Especially, since it is the third or fourth institution that has announced this concern. I wish picking a dog food could be easier. Good luck everyone!

[crazy4cats]

Wow! I think that I am going to continue rotating between foods that are grain free and ones that include grains. Maybe even discontinue grain free all together? I never thought that grain free food was all that spectacular like many others do to begin with. But I have found it a way to feed my dogs a variety. Since I have lab/golden mixes, this is a very real concern to me. Btw, this is the first report that I’ve seen that has included potatoes. Hmmm?

Also, I would contact your vet that has examined your dog. Mine were in to see their vet last week and she was aware of the concern. She said that her and her partners thought and hoped that the grain free craze would pass. She recommends Purina, Royal Canin and Hill’s, of course! I do feed some Purina in their rotation. Definitely something to think about!

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