No Hide Chews

Dog Food Advisor Forums Homemade Dog Food No Hide Chews

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  • #114423 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    I found this interesting… Earth Animal has posted a new piece called No-Hiding the Truth on No Hide….. it appears that they are trying to address and refute the information I’ve posted in this thread! Actually I think they just dug themselves into a deeper hole.

    Apparently they sent a No Hide to a veterinary pathologist and posted pics of it and rawhide to show how different they are. I agree the material they sent in is very different in appearance from rawhide. It is also very different from the Hide that I sent in. The rawhide stained eosinophilic ( red) and what they sent in stained Basophilic (blue) The off the shelf product I sent in was described as streams of eosinophilic material and theirs is described as lacey basophilic material. The pictures that came with my report look exactly like their rawhide pictures.

    What this shows in my opinion is that Earth Animal/Pony Express can make a product that looks like an off the shelf No Hide chew…but that it doesn’t appear that what is being sold at the stores by me is that same product.

    Earth Animal also addressed the finding of “collagen-like material” I found this section rather comical for multiple reasons. 1)Earth Animal claims that you should see “collagen-like material” when examining their product under the microscope but then in their microscopic analysis was any found? If it was they sure didn’t post it. Their product was described as “Lacey basophilic matrix with numerous large, multi-lobulated structures that resemble adipose tissue or a polyfilament type of material. Hmm if their product is supposed to look like collagen then how come it didn’t look that way? 2) The reason they gave for looking collagen like is that gelatin is derived from collagen. Animal based gelatin is derived from collagen but is very different structurally which is why it will not look like collagen. It is a mute point though because I sent in a Salmon chew which is purportedly made with vegetable gelatin. Vegetable gelatin is not derived from collagen, it comes from seaweed.. nothing collagen like about it. 3) They go on to say gelatin is high in protein (95%).. true for animal based gelatin but vegetable based is only about 6-7% protein content. 4) Next they report different gelatins have different melting points. I think they included this to try and explain why my No Hide didn’t melt after prolonged boiling. It is true melting points can vary but I haven’t found any above boiling water. Wikipedia says generally they are below 95 degrees F. Agar, which is the gelatin type in the chew I tested, also melts at a temp below boiling water.

    I also found this part especially fascinating. They report the FDA investigated their facilities in January. It is now May and the FDA investigation is still an open investigation. If everything was in order I would think it would have been closed by now. On the other hand finding an abnormality could lead to the FDA needing to do further investigation. I have no idea how the FDA works but it is just my thought on the subject.

    Will have to see how the FDA investigation plays out. In the meantime I’ve been doing some leathercrafting with my tanned “No Hide” I branched out to adding beads, rivets and mystery braids.

    #114457 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Wow Aimee, that is quite interesting! I bought No Hide Chews a few times and glad i haven’t for a long time.

    #114494 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi Inked Marie,

    It is interesting isn’t it. The fact that the company feels a need to try and refute what I’ve posted in a way seems to validates the information. What puzzles me is that they brought Yamka into their fold and yet published this piece…..

    Back in October when I bought my first No Hide and noted that the material did not seem food like I never thought the issue would still be unresolved from a regulatory aspect this late in the game.

    What this journey has taught me is that state feed controls are rather limited in what they can do. Branches of government to address these types of problems likely don’t have the manpower they need and so issues like companies selling mislabeled goods are free to do so. Boutique store owners in my area become very angry when you put tanning oil on a product they sell in their stores : )

    #114505 Report Abuse

    a c
    Member

    Aimee, Thank you for been so persistent.

    Maybe there should be a non-government 3rd party agency to test all the dog food and dog treats. We may be surprised.

    #114522 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Thanks A.C,
    I intend to keep following this issue.

    #115279 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Tragically I just learned of a local dog that died at the hands of a No Hide Chew. The dog had swallowed a piece of the chew material and it obstructed the GI tract.

    This is so sad and so preventable.

    #115292 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Very sad. Back in the early 90’s, before i knew better, I bought rawhide chews weekly for my dogs.

    #115308 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    That is so sad, Aimee. The poor owners are going to feel mad and guilty for a long time.

    I, too cringe, Marie at the thought of some of the things we did and didn’t do for our previous pets. But, gosh darn it, they shouldn’t be able to sell things that are knowingly dangerous for them!

    #115312 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    I think rawhide can be an appropriate chew but needs to be matched to the dog. This product though may be purchased by an owner who wouldn’t purchase a rawhide based chew of the same form. Also the danger with this product is that it is a mish mash of pieces inside of a cover sheet. Very easy for a dog to disassemble and swallow one of the inside pieces whole.

    Through Freedom of Information Act Test ran was inconclusive. Hopefully FDA will run a more definitive test soon.

    #115334 Report Abuse

    a c
    Member

    I walked into a local pet store the other day and I saw a big new display of No Hide Chews. I felt disgusted. The company shouldn’t be allowed to cheat consumers like that.

    #115679 Report Abuse

    D. O
    Member

    Aimee, thanks for all the time and effort you put into this. I manage an independent pet store and have been keeping an eye on the No Hide Chews since the first reports hit “Truth About” last year. At that time I contacted our brand rep as well as some folks higher up in the company and got a lot of lip service and no useful information. They also refused to disclose what the “base” is, if not hide. I’m glad to have come across this thread, I’ve showed your findings to the business owner and we agreed that, if we can replicate the tanning test, we’ll pull the line from our shelves. I’ll be trying the egg method this weekend.

    It’s frustrating that the folks at Earth Animal have refused to be transparent with you, and even worse that you were thrown out of your local store for trying to share your findings. Please don’t get discouraged, and keep up your good work!

    #115685 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi D.O.
    Cudo’s to you and your boss for being open minded and willing to test this product yourself. The egg tanning was messy but it did work. I hydrated the product in a non iodized salt solution. Not sure why iodinized salt isn’t recommended but it uniformly is not. Since I did mine I learned that you can also use mayonnaise along with the egg yolk. If I did it again that is what I’d try about 1/2 yolk and 1/2 mayo. After hydrating let it dry out a bit to remove the excess moisture then coat both sides with the egg yolk mayo mix and put it in a zip lock bag. Be generous with the yolk/mayo as it will soak in. Squeeze out excess air, seal and let sit I think it did about 18 hours but most rec 24hours.When you take it out remove the excess then starts the stretching process. Please post back with how it came out for you.

    #118493 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Back in May I wrote an email to Earth Animal owner Dr Bob Goldstein. The Earth Animal customer service gave me his direct e mail address when I expressed frustration that Chris Moore or Tom O ‘Hare never answered my questions. The customer service representative said Dr.Bob would answer them directly and swiftly. Well I never have heard from Dr. Bob but surprisingly about a month later Dr Ryan Yamka, Earth Animal’s chief science officer, emailed me on his behalf. He didn’t answer the questions either. He considered them answered after repeating the same old information that they had the treats examined and they were reported not to be hide. And then he started asking for private information. He asked about my relationships with other people who have contacted E.A. in regards to the products and he asked for my home address so he could send me information. Creepy!

    And so the saga continues.

    Meanwhile, Pony Express foods has been importing a lot of dog chews from China. The import frequency has really ramped up. According to import data they imported 28,908 lbs on 5/24, 23,870lbs on 6/8, 22,616lbs on 6/22, and 23,870lbs on 6/29. That’s a total of 99,264 lbs of dog chews in ~ 5 weeks. Pony Express reports this is all sold directly to consumers at a flea market that operates one day a week year round https://www.earthanimal.com/no-hide-statement/ and of course I have no reason not to believe them.

    P.S. Superzoo just finished up and Earth Animal is launching a new flavor of No Hide.

    #118494 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Amiee, it’s like a soap opera! Keep us informed….I’m just starting recuperation from joint replacements that will last at least the next six months and need “juicy” stuff to read!

    #118496 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Joint replacements as in plural? I wish you an uneventful healing.
    I might be able to help I have an aol address for you from 2013.

    #118501 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Aimee: yep! Had my second hip done on Monday; my right knee gets done eight weeks from this Monday. Got your first email; responded.

    #118508 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    Marie-

    I wish you a speedy recovery! Hope you’re well.

    #118509 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Thanks Pitlove! I’m good. This hip is different than my first four years ago but good otherwise!

    #118519 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    I did a research paper on Total Hip Replacement and how dogs were used in biomedical research for the testing. Its really interesting how far the technology has come.

    #118522 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    In the 90’s I worked on the ortho floor of a hospital. I was unprepared four years ago to find out that my surgeon did anterior approach: incision on front of thigh/across crease using a Hana table. No muscles cut just moved. Much easier & quicker recovery.

    I wish knee replacement had an easier way but nope, it’s just going to suck.

    #118615 Report Abuse

    David C
    Member

    Goodness, it’s so difficult trying to figure out which products are actually okay for our pups! Shoot, the same thing can be said for us…

    Thanks so much for your work with this! When I saw how the No Hide chews were breaking down (or, weren’t breaking down, really), I started Googling and found this topic. Mid-research, my Miniature Schnauzer horked up a bunch of solid chunks of it.

    #118624 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi David C,
    I’m glad you found the information I’ve posted useful. How much time after ingestion was it before it was vomited back up as solid chunks of material?

    Please go back to the store where you purchased it and ask for your money back. The product is 100% satisfaction guaranteed. You have reason not to be satisfied.

    #119320 Report Abuse

    Noelani H
    Member

    I had posted a photo of the label in a blog as a safe and healthy chew and a kind person sent me the link to your conversation.

    Thank you so much for alerting all owners to this dangerous and unhealthy product. So very thankful that there are those who do due dillegence for the people who don’t have the resources to do the research.

    I purchased my “chew” at a very reputable daycare and dog hotel for special needs babies. I will definitely be letting her know this conversation and she will be furious at these findings as she is passionate about abuse and also these types of food crimes and misdemeanors.

    Being an advocate to our babies I will be posting this on my blog and will not be carrying this on my eMarketplace and will be returning it to the company.

    I do want to recommend that maybe make an appointment with your federal legislator in your state and have legislation crafted so we can stop this travesty. Currently I am in the process of developing talking points to meet with my Congressman to stop the sale of chicken sent to China and then sent back to the states after processing. We have to stop this and stop it now. We should be doing this with pet food and treats as well.

    God bless all that you do.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Noelani H. Reason: Spelling
    #119330 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi Noelani H.
    Thanks so much for posting. It helps me to know that people are finding the posted information valuable. It is easy for me to get discouraged when those profiting off of this product close their eyes to science. I naively thought that the anti rawhide boutique stores selling these would be concerned with the findings of a consumer tested product sent to a forensic lab but they are not. Hope you have better luck at the place you purchased your No Hide from. At a minimum be sure to ask for your money back as the company guarantees 100% satisfaction. Speaking of 100%… a huge brand new display of “No Hide” went up in my local store with a huge sign above it declaring the product is 100% digestible. Earth Animal hasn’t done any digestibility studies in dogs and the digestibility models studies they have done reported variable average digestibility some as low as 56%.

    #120019 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Hi aimee:
    Any updates? Just prior to your last updates I read several posts on other FB pages and sites questioning Earth Animals no hide chews.

    #120050 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi Bobby dog,
    If you come across others questioning No Hide please post links here. There are a few of us that regularly are in contact with each other but always looking for others to share information.

    I heard of some interesting events at the AAFCO meeting in regard to “No Hide” but too early to say.

    New labels are coming into the stores in my area and all I can say is WOW! They corrected the weights, changed the ingredient and ingredient order and added and replaced other information. In a prior post I reported that the weights were incorrect and I alerted my state feed control official of same. The smallest chew was labeled 51 grams and now is 34 grams, the middle sized was labeled 85 the largest that was labeled 255 grams is now 99 grams. This change validates that they have been over reporting their weights. The word “safe” has been removed from the label and replaced with the word “healthy”. They added the word “recipe” after the protein flavor. My state feed control official told me that they were in violation of the 95% rule. Some minor changes in ingredient name, banana is now banana powder and vegetable gelatin is agar agar, they added AAFCO statement for intermittent and supplemental feeding. So it appears they have cleaned up a lot of problems.

    For me this was the real WOW. They changed the order of the ingredients. The ingredient order used to be protein flavor, gelatin, brown rice flour and now is protein flavor, brown rice flour and gelatin. This is a huge game changer! As it is now written and using the company’s information there is no way to make a “No Hide” Here is an example. Earth Animal reports that the carbohydrate content in the chews are very low. Today their website reports 2% carbohydrate in the case of the Pork Chew, so in a 100 gram chew 2 grams are from carbohydrate. Which would mean no more than ~3 grms of brown rice flour in the chew and every ingredient following rice flour must be 3 grams or less. In essence then Earth Animal is claiming that they made a 100 gram chew using only 15 grams of ingredients. Magical ! Also found this odd because Ryan Yamka their chief science officer, in response to being asked how the carbohydrate content of the chews be so low responded that there is very little brown rice flour in the chew. What are the chews made of then if the lead ingredient is only present in small amount?

    #120055 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Thanks, nice update!!

    Just in time, I had to come inside due to bad weather and very kindly you posted an up-date for my reading pleasure. 😉

    I will look for the posts. Fair warning, they are not my usual go to sites for info. I found them via Googling the topic after your last update. I am pretty sure I book marked them, but have some things to take care of at the moment. Thixton was one of the individuals questioning the product; I’m sure you’ve read her info on the subject already.

    Did you ever make that coin purse? If you did I think you should invest in a BeDazzler to add some bling to it. 😉

    #120199 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Never did make the coin purse. It is hard to get a good piece. Most the stuff is flimsy thin. I bought one yesterday and hydrated it. This one is really thick I don’t know how it will tan. I really wanted to experiment with dying with RIT dye then that Be Dazzler bling will really sparkle!

    Went to the store and had a look at the new labels. The company once again has huge errors. Not only with weight but caloric information. The 11 inch chew is labeled as 99 grams. The caloric information given is 2970 kcals/kg, 82.94 kcals/ounce and ~414 kcals/chew. What is up with that? The chew weight would have to be 139 grams to be 414 kcals (414kcals/2.97kcal/gram) A 99 gram chew kcals should be 2.97 kcals/gram X 99 grams = 294 kcals.

    Others are similarly mislabeled. The 4 inch chicken chew is labeled 34 grams and ~152 kcals/4 inch chew. 152kcals/2.97 kcals/grams = 51 grams. The kcals on the label would correlate to the old label weight of 51 grams but the 4 inch size in now labeled as weighing 34 grams.

    The 7 inch size used to be reported as 85 grams and now is labeled as weighing 60 grams.
    Caloric information is given as 2950 kcals/kg 60 gram X 2.95 kcals/grams would be 177 kcals, they labeled it as 263 kcals. What they are reporting would be if the chew weighed 89 grams.

    It appears that they changed the weights as the chews were not meeting label weight but then labeled using old caloric information. This company can’t seem to get the simplest of things correct.

    #120200 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Aime-
    Wow! Keep them honest! Thanks for all you do.

    #120223 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Crazy4cats,

    I’m trying to… more letters to write to regulators. This company keeps me busy!

    #120501 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Was in Wal Mart and found these chews https://www.google.com/search?q=Ol+Roy+chicken+rawhide+free+bright+bones&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=B0EmwZd-2q9tUM%253A%252C0Ub_5V9TZsYWNM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzf-KdEnDhy7L1RCJ51jTqMpYP-54Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwismpqdk4HdAhVOyYMKHc4WC58Q9QEwAnoECAYQBA&biw=1303&bih=694#imgrc=N5ICdpMrU0_0gM:

    They look very much as “No Hide” by Earth Animal and have an ingredient line up similar to the old ingredient line up from E.A. Ingredients for the Ol Roy chew Chicken, pork gelatin, rice starch, sugar cane fiber, glycerin, carrageenan salt, potassium sorbate E.A. was chicken, chicken gelatin, brown rice flour, organic egg, olive oil banana and bromelain.

    I did some of the same things with these chews as with E.A. No Hide. The material cracked when trying to unroll it and it is fairly easy to tear. Earth Animal product bends but never cracked and couldn’t be torn. I soaked the Ol Roy chew in water. It puffed up a bit and took on a slimy feel and fell apart when handled. Best way for me to describe it is to say it was like wet toilet paper. E.A. product puffs quite a bit after soaking, remains tough and unable to be torn. The Ol Roy product when boiled disintegrated. It left behind a milky water with build up around the pan edges. It started falling apart after about 10 seconds in the boiling water. The Earth Animal material can be boiled for hours and it shrinks and curls and remains tough after boiling. The Ol Roy product is very consistent in how it is rolled and in the thickness of the material and is made of a continuous sheet. The E.A. product varies significantly in the thickness of material the number of pieces in a roll and the shapes of those pieces.

    This Ol Roy product behaves exactly as I’d expect a gelatin and flour product to behave. In comparison to rawhide the Ol Roy product appears like rawhide but simple test( soaking in tepid and boiling water) reveal it behaves nothing like rawhide The Earth Animal product looks like rawhide and when soaked in tepid water and boiling water behaves similarly to rawhide.

    The Ol Roy treats are made in China, came in a 4 pack of ~4inch chews, sold for about $6.00 and met label weight.

    #120545 Report Abuse

    pitlove
    Member

    Great update Aimee. I havent looked in the pet section of Walmart in a long time, so I’ve never seen these. Sad how even Ol’Roy can make a product more true to what it states it to be than E.A can.

    #120555 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Pitlove is right about Ol Roy/EA. I’ve never looked at the Walmart pet section. Yuck!

    #120568 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    I think they are fairly new??? Last time I was looking at the Wal Mart offerings was several months ago and I didn’t see these there. Someone sent me an e mail alerting me to there presence.

    For me they validated that a gelatin based chew will melt upon boiling

    #123480 Report Abuse

    Karen W
    Member

    I just spent $700 in vet bills trying to figure out what was causing my dog’s distress and after a week of suffering, he pooped out a large piece of his chicken no-hide chew. I will NOT be buying these AGAIN.

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