Hey guys – new to the forums but not the site. I have a problem that i hope you can help with. My 4 month old female pupsters has had potty issues since i got her on Mothers dsy weekend. Breeder had her on beneful and when ingot her i switched her over to Victor active dog and puppy grain free beef grain free (the red bag) and her stools were the color of the food dark brown-and mixed from a good solid stool to a soft or even runny dirrhea like stool in the same go. Went to the vet and did anfecal exam it was clean so chnaged her food to a lower protein food, purina pro large breed puppy chicken. Same issues with the mixed stools actually more softer this time and the color was the same as the food once again. Stools have looked playdoh like at times or straight liquid when not solid. Took her to the vet again for her last round of shots/rabies and did another fecal test again clean. So vet gave me an antibiotic to help with the diarrhea as well as a probiotic. She is also on another antibiotic for a UTI and on pancur c.
We have finished the diarrhea meds, on day 2 of pancur (3 pack dose) and has about 5 days left on her UTI pills. She is still having soft stools where its hard to pick it all up with diarrhea drops towards the end. Vet says if she still has issues after all of this, she wants to take blood to look at her pancreas. Can anyone give more of an insight of this? Vet does not mention or think its Giardia.
Should I try to changer her food to something else? Oh and i have tried the pure pumpkin before and it didnt help. Possibly made it runnier. She is also NOT showing any other signs. Has never vomited, eats very well, drinks water, very active (too active lol), no fever, no pain or discomfort when you touch and feel around her belly or lower areas. She just has mixed stools. That’s it. Am I over feeding her maybe? I give her a total of 4-6cups a day max and that’s if someone mistakenly feeds her not knowing I did.
Any ideas would be welcomed. Thanks!
- This topic was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by RottieMom. Reason: Added more information
are the foods you have tried have Potato & Sweet Potatoes? as Potato & Sweet potato normally form up stools, look for a limited ingredient single protein kibble that has Potatoes or Sweet Potatos there’s “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato, “Natural Balance” LID Potato & Duck… If the pumkin made it runnier then she needs Less Fiber the Natural Balance Potato & Duck is 3% fiber (I Think) I feed “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult kibble…..
You’d have to look at the Wellness Core Puppy formula as they might have Lentils or chickpeas, these ingredient make my boys IBD worse..
Alot of people have success with “Natural balance” Limited Ingredient dry kibble but read the ingredients as some N/B formula’s have Pea Protein, Chickpeas etc
Congratulations on your new pup. Sounds like she’s having a bit of a rough start. I would not change anything yet! She has already been through so much. Most of the time it’s best to leave a new puppy on the food they were eating when you first get them. This allows them to get settled in a bit before you switch things up. However, it’s too late for that. Pumpkin never worked for me either. Let her tummy settle down a bit after finishing up her meds and dewormer.
Did the vet recommend using FortiFlora? That always seems to help my dogs when they get loose stools. Are you feeding 3 or 4 small meals to her? Also, if her UTI pills are an antibiotic, they tend to give dogs (and humans) loose stools. I know it’s tough because I’ve been there. Constantly changing things can make it worse. You’ll never figure out what is causing the issue then. As long as she’s staying hydrated she’ll be OK.
Give it another week and ask your vet about a probiotic, such as FortiFlora. I’m curious, how was she doing on Beneful when you got her? Also, do you know how big she will get?
I’d love to know how she is doing. I went through something similar with my dogs. Report back and good luck!
You have a two fold problem here. One the one hand you need to resolve the diarrhea, but on the other hand need to make sure the food she does well on is for large breed puppies. This is critical. Dealing with bone growth disorders on top of diarrhea is no fun.
Unfortunately, the first mistake you made was switching her food when you first got her. Although I agree that she should not have been feeding Beneful, it is always recommended to keep a new puppy on the same food the breeder uses for 3-4 weeks before slowly changing it. Puppies are usually stressed out from the transport to the new home and from being in a place they are not yet familiar with. Adding a dietary change on top of that will almost always stress the GI system more.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t sound like you switched her to each new food by mixing the old and new food for 7-10 days. Or at least you didn’t mention if you did. If you didn’t do a slow switch, that is also part of the problem.
You will likely need to put her back on Beneful for a few weeks, make sure you are not overfeeding, and see if there is improvement. If so then you can do a very very slow transition to a large breed safe puppy food of your choosing.
She will get about 90+lbs if not bigger (which I hope bigger, I love big dogs)! She is currently on Vetri Mega Probiotic from the vet – one capsule every 24hours on an empty stomach. I did do a slow switch from Beneful to Victor and per the vet switched to Pro plan slowly as well but after a month she was still having issues. I had plenty of Victor left since I just bought bag and was almost out of the Pro Plan (enough to switch) so I switched back. Probably wasnt the right thing to do really but I had a $40 brand new bag going to waste and vet said it was ok to go back as it was actually a better food than Pro Plan. And yes the Victor is for large breed.
Once We are off the probiotics I will have her on FortiFlora – I have used that before with my other Rott and it worked very well (he had parvo). That way she will have a good balanced gut after these rounds of antibiotics and the dewormer. She is drinking plenty of water thankfully and I was wondering if the antibiotic for her UTI is what is still causing the runs. As far as feeding, I give her 2 cups in the morning and 2 cups when I get home from work, is that too much and is also contributing to the runs? She still acts like shes hungry after that but I have read and been told by vet that over feeding can also fuel the fire.
IF by chance – after all if the meds are done, she is STILL having potty issues, I would like to change her food ONE more time to something for sensitive stomach before I go back to the vet and spend the $$$ for blood work and tests on her pancreas. I will definitely look into the Natural Balance Line when the times come.
Anything else I need to give or try? I really dont want it to end up being her pancreas…I just lost my male rott to bone cancer in April, and my pit mix has spleen cancer so I REALLY dont need another dog with medical issues…Its wearing me out!
Moving to an even lower protein (and lower fat) food is just going to drive up the calories from carbohydrates, which is the worst option for any dog (but particularly a puppy).
Better to drive the carbohydrates down as much as possible (zero being best).
Bill – what would you recommend? I used to have my boy on Diamond Lamb and Rice before I switched to Victor and I only switched for the higher protein and the bigger bag/lower cost deal as he was eating like the horse he was :). Would Diamond Lamb and rice be good for her?
I am open to suggestions, I have time to research foods before she needs a refill.
@tara H, I’d make doubly sure the issue isn’t giardia or other similar issues. Likewise, I’d want to know there is no issue with the pancreatic tests that have been run.
Assuming there are no issues, I’d either move to a PRM raw diet (my strong preference) or move to a mushers-type formula that minimizes carbs as much as possible (for a kibbled diet).
Victors brand, which you’ve tried, has a formula called Ultra Pro which is 44/22 (protein/fat) that minimizes carbs and is high calorie (so you can feed less food). Aside from having to process too much carb-waste, the other main food-related cause of diarrhea is eating too great a volume of food. Smaller portions of high-density foods (with less or no non-essential carbs) is kinder to a dog’s GI tract.
I would rule out any vet issues.
Thanks for the insight and detailed explanation Bill – very knowledgeable and helpful! You all have been!
Just got home and took pupsters out. Poo was better. Still soft but not runny. I fed her only one cup this morning along with her last dose of pancur c. So the “overfeeding” makes sense as I e tried this before, only feeding her a small portion, but thought I was crazy thinking that 2 cups was part of the issue.
Still learning my Zayna – she is completely different than my last rottie that’s for sure!!
Here is the run down of the food I have her on.
Victor Active Dog & Puppy Formula Grain-Free Dry Dog Food is formulated using multiple proteins including USA-sourced beef, chicken and pork meals, along with nutritious peas and sweet potatoes in place of grains. This premium-quality food also contains scientifically advanced ingredients that support your pup’s digestive and immune system health. Victor Active Dog & Puppy is an excellent food for dogs that may have allergies to grains or glutens, and can be fed to dogs of all ages.
Super premium 33% protein grain-free dog food made with high quality protein sources for well balanced nutrition designed specially for active dogs & puppies
75% of protein in this recipe comes from a combination of USA sourced beef, chicken, pork & fish
Recipe features antioxidant-rich sweet potatoes that are high in dietary fiber and great for digestive health
Menhaden fish meal contains DHA, an essential nutrient for growing puppies
Grain-free and gluten free recipe for easy digestion
Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Chicken Meal, Peas, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Egg Product, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Yeast Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
3,640 kcal/kg, 397 kcal/cup
Crude Protein 33.0% min
Crude Fat 16.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.8% max
Moisture 9.0% max
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 2.8% min
Zinc 150 mg/kg min
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg min
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.4% min
L-Carnitine 50 mg/kg min
DHA 0.1% min
I would look for a limited ingredient single protein dry kibble, this Victor Active has 4 meats, excellent for a dog who has a healthy Intestinal tract..
My boy has IBD I had to start with a vet diet, then once we found a vet diet that agreed with him & firmed his poos & was doing 2 small firm poos a day “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue formula he had to stay on Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 6-12months to strengthen his immune system (Gut), then after 9months, I started trying a new dry kibble but it had to have 1 single meat, limited ingredient kibble & he finally did well on Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon but in Australia our some of our TOTW formula’s do NOT have any Peas, Lentils Chickpeas like the America TOTW, we still get the old TOTW formula’s.. he did really well on the peas free TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula except he started vomiting back up the dry kibble, now I’ve learnt to stay away from any fish kibbles as they are higher in Contaminates & Toxins, I changed him over to the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula it just has Lamb as meat protein & he did really well, no skin problems & firm poo’s, then I started introducing other foods in his diet so he’d get use to different ingredients, I even went thru a Animal Nutritionist & put him on a raw elimination diet, Kangarro & blended veggies, his poos were beautiful BUT he kept regurgitating back up water & some digested raw, then he was getting bad acid reflux & after regurgitating the raw the acid burnt esophagus so I put him back on dry food & started to cook the raw diet & feed it for Lunch & feed 4 smaller meals thru the day..
I would take baby steps, you will know once she has stopped taken all her meds…
Why does your 4-5 month old pup have UTI’s, she is so young?? also the pancreas test, you’d know if she had Pancreas problems, she’d be vomiting sometimes, eating grass & having pancreas pain & maybe sloppy poo’s, but her Pancreas would young & healthy??
I really think she is too young to be having problems with her Pancreas??..
What colour are her poos?? if her poos are yellow, smelly & sloppy look into Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth, S.I.B.O……while she was taking Metronidazole (Flagyl) were her poos better? sometimes they need to take the Metronidazole for 21-28 days to kill any bad bacteria in stomach/small bowel.. this is what Patch ended up having SIBO & Helicobacter-Pylori, it took a few years to get everything healthy aagain, now I can feed him any foods as long as he’s not sensitive to those ingredients, he does well on Chicken for stomach & bowel BUT not for his skin, he gets red yeasty paws & red skin around his mouth after he eats Chicken, Barley, Oats, Tapioca, Corn & cooked Carrots make his ears itchy…
If you can afford a vet diet that’s where I’d start, as Intestinal Vet diets have FOS, MOS, Inulin, Vitamin B, Beet Pulp, everything to help make the Intestinal Tract healthy, then once she is stable on a vet diet for at least 6 months then start her on a premium dog food that only has 1 meat protein & a few carbs..but slowly start introducing over 2 week period if you see her poos going sloppy while introducing new food, then stop new food & go back a few steps & stay on what she was doing firm poos on & keep a diary write everything down, food, ingredients, flea med, worm meds etc just in case you needs to remember certain things….I wouldnt give her any of those Flea chews yet, just use the spot on flea repellents for now till you work out her stomach bowel problem, just in case she has a very sensitive stomach/bowel, I just read a post on a Staffy f/b group, the lady gave her dog a Bravecto chew will the vet gave her dog the Bravecto chew & he’s been in vet hospital on a drip now for 1 week, dont ever vaccinate, worm & give flea chews all at the same time some vets do this on vet visits I know teh rescue vets do this & some dog can not cope always leave 1-2 weeks inbetween meds vaccination & flea repellents etc
How much does the bag of kibble say to feed her for the weight of your pup? maybe feed 3 smaller meals a day, thats what your suppose to feed a puppy 3 meals a day then they go to the 2 larger meals as they are older.. also have you tried boiled chicken or turkey breast & some boiled potato or try boil rice & see are her poos firm?? maybe for lunch over weekend try a small cooked meal, or a wet can vet diet the Royal Canine Intestinal low fiber is really good, some vet diets are formulated for growning pups your vet will know which ones Im pretty sure the Hills I/D Digestive Care wet & dry is formulataed for growing pups this way you”ll see does she do firm poos over a 2 week period? or try the single meat limited carbs next & see if poos are sloppy then try a vet diet.. Keep us informed with what happens with Zanya’s health….
@rottiemom, it is notoriously hard on dog’s GI tracts to process large amounts of low quality and low calorie processed foods that are mostly plant-based ingredients and/or carbohydrates.
As a species, the kibble diet is a very unnatural one for dogs. And the capacity to process carbohydrates is unevenly distributed among the dog population.
My very active Vizsla eats meat, organs, and edible bones. Not a huge amount (since the meals are nutrient dense and bioavailable. He has no need to process “fillers” since there are none in his diet. In consequence, his stools are very small and well-formed and look almost like they come from a different species. They look more like wild-animal scat compared to the loose and huge plops of poop left by kibble fed dogs.
Unfortunately, most kibble formulas include a lot of low-nutrient “stuff” that a dog has to pass through its GI tract with little or no benefit and with a lot of downsides. This is very rough on dogs and harder on some than others.
I trust that you will get a lot of contradictory advice on this thread. I’m telling you the benefits I’ve seen feeding dogs as nature intended vs the cereal-based commercial diets that large marketing efforts have convinced too many of us to accept as “normal” when it is in fact not in the interest of our canine companions.
You will have to use your own inner-intelligence to weight the options.
@SpyCar – Everyone has their own opinions on whats good and whats not but I dont think anyone is necessarily wrong. Each dog is different and digests differently and have different health issues that may limit what they can eat or how they eat so I hope no one gets offended by your sharings or feel the need to “preach” differently than what you have stated. That is your choice and your dog to do as you wish, and I thank you for the advice 🙂
I have been monitoring over the weekend and keeping to her 2.5 cups a day and her stools have become more firmer than before when I was giving her more. We have one more dose of antibiotics after today so the “real” results will come soon.
I am still monitoring and still researching foods, diets, and such and learning as much as I can as I’m waiting to see how she does once off all meds and “stabilized”.
Thank you all for the advice!!!
@rottiemom, I don’t think anyone believes that feeding a dog massive amounts of low quality (low nutritional value, low calorie) food is as kind to their digestive tracts as feeding smaller portions of high-density foods.
Moving a lot of filler is hard on dog’s GI tracts and the evidence is in the copious production of stinky poop.
I hope you find an answer that works for you. Observing the scat gives pretty good clues about food choices.
Actually, Victor looks like a decent food. For now I am happy with Zignature, but I may try one of the Victor formulas down the road
I only use kibble as a base and add a variety of cooked foods and a splash of water to meals
I won’t bore you with the details, if you have seen my posts you know what I am talking about. 🙂
If I were you I would continue to work closely with your Vet as to how to proceed
For anyone who has their dog on (or is considering putting their dog on) Taste of the Wild dog food, beware! There is an active Diamond Taste of the Wild Class Action Lawsuit!
Due to food allergies, my two dogs have (had) been on TOTW Pacific Stream for years. In June, 2018, my dogs became extremely ill (vomiting, bloody diarrhea) following two feedings from a newly opened bag. Three months and over $4,000 in vet bills later, my dogs are still trying to recover after eating TOTW’s poison. And, it is poison! You may already be aware, but on August 28, 2018, a class action lawsuit has been filed against Diamond Taste of the Wild dog food (http://truthaboutpetfood.com/taste-of-the-wild-pet-food-class-action-lawsuit/). TOTW’s Pacific Stream, Roasted Bison & Venison and the Puppy formulas have tested positive for arsenic, bpa, cadmum, mercury, lead, total pesticide and acrylamide. Many people have been posting complaints on ConsumerAffairs.com, Amazon.com, Chewy.com reporting symptoms similar to what my dogs are experiencing. Others are posting complaints regarding their dogs suddenly developing itching problems. A couple of people have even posted about their dogs dying after they began vomiting and having bloody diarrhea.
So stay away from TOTW dog food!!
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