[KingRottweilers]

So I have been a HUGE Victor Dog Food advocate for 10+ years. Always had great success until about the last 3 to 4 years. I started noticing smaller than normal litters.

That is when I started looking at everything but was not too worried figured its just mother nature. Next I noticed (on some not all) irregular heat cycles, 7 to 13 months between (cycles). Some would get pregnant and carry to term but I had started seeing an upraise in stillbirths and birth defects. Finally (especially the last 2 years) The 1 out of 3 were getting pregnant.

I don’t know how much time & money we spent at the reproduction vet only to be told, I don’t see why they are not pregnant, try again next time.

We spent a fortune importing our Rottweilers and it was getting to be very disheartening to see all our work and planning going down the tubes. Rightfully so our Clients were getting upset how long it was taking to get their puppy.

We re-evaluated our entire breeding program, retired some young dogs and imported some more. All the imported dogs were pregnant or got pregnant on their first heat cycle with us. In that time we try to slowly mix in Victor (since it is beef based) with their chicken based. By the time they have produced their first litter while they are nursing we were making the final switch to Victor.

Next time they came into heat no pregnancy was achieved.

After seeing a post on my facebook feed from another breeder how her proven bitch didn’t get pregnant and I knew she fed Victor I reached out.

We both decided to switch to two different kinds of food and protein. I went with a Mix of Wellness and Diamond Naturals, She went with ProPlan Active Dog and we both decided on the Chicken as the main protein.

I hit all my Rottweilers with Doc Roys Vitamin B-Strong for a week. Sure enough my females started coming into season and they were all getting pregnant.

Since I had 8 bags of Victor left over I figured I would just do a 3:1 ratio (3 parts Chicken based, 1 part Victor). I had three females that I did not plan on breeding. If they did produce a litter I would not have minded at all but was not counting on it.

First female did not get pregnant, shortly after breeding her she started picking the Victor our of her bowl and leaving it on the ground.

Second female did not get pregnant and would still eat Victor if you gave it to her. Of course you could give her anything and she will eat it.

Third female, got pregnant, carried the litter to day 62 and it looked like they dropped into place for birth. Two days later on day 64 she gave birth to 8 stillbirths and 1 live that passed away within 24 hours.

Next three female I feed then 100% chicken mix no victor at all!

All three gave birth to healthy litters, only had one loss amongst the three litters. Litters were 6, 9 and 11 puppies.

So from my own testing and results I think it is fair to say,

Oh the other breeder saw the same results with ProPlan, to this date she has not had less than 9 in a litter.

As I was saying, with my testing and results I think it is fair to say the food was / is the issue with it comes to Victor.

I did call their customer service and I was told “Victor Dog Food is for the average pet owner that wants to give their dog a high quality food without breaking the bank.”

I asked what about the breeders that produce these pups and promote you, they replied “Unfortunately some of our blend may not be acceptable to all breeders.”

So after 13 years, I have used my last bag of Victor Dog food as I personally believe there is something in there that causes reproductive issues with my breeding stock.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C
Well relieved to tell you that the culprit of the digestive disturbance was NOT what I have been feeding nor the transitioning grain include Stella N Chewy’s. It was Sargentto cheddar cheese sticks. Hubby decided to treat them to a “little” bit each. His “little” bit was whole stick divided in three. I know cheddar is less lactose, however I also know that whenever I let Loli have even a tiny bit of vanilla ice-cream I’m eating (puppy dog look of “please can I have a little”) she will inevitably have stomach noises and not eat until I rub her stomach and gas is passed. So I put cooked string beans in tupperware and told hubby If they follow you into kitchen THAT is their snack so YOU feel better. lol
If you notice the reviews of food are starting again after new owners of site took over. Also glad I didn’t switch to PPP after the recall due to high Vitamin E levels in food. Guess a lot of pet owners who thought trusted brand will be very upset about this of course.
I myself am still on the fence of their base. Maybe I will alternate with the grain and grain free. Still always looking at options for topper of freeze dried since I do like to rotate those. I find in any brand they do well with the turkey and I believe that is a good protein source.
Hope to hear your pup is not experiencing any seizures at this time.I hope when you get a chance to go to reddit which seizure in dog questions, someone will relate and be of some help.

[Patricia A]

Hi M&C
Well relieved to tell you that the culprit of the digestive disturbance was NOT what I have been feeding nor the transitioning grain include Stella N Chewy’s. It was Sargentto cheddar cheese sticks. Hubby decided to treat them to a “little” bit each. His “little” bit was whole stick divided in three. I know cheddar is less lactose, however I also know that whenever I let Loli have even a tiny bit of vanilla ice-cream I’m eating (puppy dog look of “please can I have a little”) she will inevitably have stomach noises and not eat until I rub her stomach and gas is passed. So I put cooked string beans in tupperware and told hubby If they follow you into kitchen THAT is their snack so YOU feel better. lol
If you notice the reviews of food are starting again after new owners of site took over. Also glad I didn’t switch to PPP after the recall due to high Vitamin E levels in food. Guess a lot of pet owners who thought trusted brand will be very upset about this of course.
I myself am still on the fence of their base. Maybe I will alternate with the grain and grain free. Still always looking at options for topper of freeze dried since I do like to rotate those. I find in any brand they do well with the turkey and I believe that is a good protein source.
Hope to hear your pup is not experiencing any seizures at this time.I hope when you get a chance to go to reddit which seizure in dog questions, someone will relate and be of some help.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. Believe me, I’m barely holding my own when discussing dog nutrition. I realize after some exchanges with Aimee that I have some serious gaps in my dog nutrition knowledge. So now I’m trying to remedy that. But I have some pretty firmly ingrained thoughts on some topics (like % protein from meat, and carbs) that go against mainstream dog nutrition, so I’m not sure how that is going to be reconciled in the end.

The info you provided from another forum on Stella & Chewy’s is SOOO DISAPPOINTING. If I understand that post correctly it appears that S&C may be experiencing growing pains, that will probably not end well. I was getting ready to go back to feeding S&C. I used to feed that Wild Red dry product that is mentioned, and my dogs loved it, plus several of the freeze dried recipes. I stopped feeding the dry because there is a chance (probably extremely small, but still a chance) that the rosemary in it could contribute to seizures (in a dog that already has seizures). Then for a while I had other concerns about some of the ingredients in S&C, but have since pretty much let go of those concerns. I have to start letting go of some things. The list of things I’m concerned about has grown to a ridiculous length. I have been surprised that S&C has never made the Thixton Lists – or at least not the years that I bought them. I see in one of your posts that evidently Thixton kind of caught S&C in a lie regarding the source of ingredients. That is unfortunate. Especially since supplements sourced from China are not necessarily a dog food deal breaker in my mind. I think it is pretty hard to find human supplements that don’t come from China. But the fact that S&C lied about it until they knew they were caught is quite troubling.

I’m getting very close to deciding that I will never find a dog food company that I feel good about so I should just start making my own. I say that as though it would be no big deal to just start doing it, but it is a pretty overwhelming thought. Plus, I feel like my dogs need to be accustomed to at least one dry or freeze dried food so I can leave it out if I have to travel. That is what I liked about Vital Essentials mini nibs. I was able to leave it out for free feeding, like I would a dry food. But I’ve decided that I am definitely done with VE.

On the DCM issue, did you see Aimee’s reply in my Raw Food Topic? When someone as well informed as her is uncertain, then there are no answers yet. I’ve done just a little more online research in the last week, and it sounds like there are ongoing studies that point toward diets high in peas, lentils, and potatoes being the problem, but that is hardly a revelation. I want to know why! For now I’m assuming it is mostly peas and lentils (but I am still suspicious of beans too) in high quantities, which results in not enough high quality protein for the dog plus the peas acting as an anti-nutrient or even a toxin. Have you ever read “The Plant Paradox”? He is down on all legumes. I think dog foods that include grains just naturally tend to include less legumes, but in my mind the grains have no protective powers and are not providing lacking nutrients. But then, I really don’t know . . .

The agony you are going through in trying to determine, from order of ingredients and moisture content of ingredients, how much protein is coming from meat vs legumes is why I decided firmly that if a company won’t reveal the percentage of protein from meat (or animal sources is the language some use) then I wouldn’t even consider them. But Aimee brought up a good point about the definition of meat. Companies can play games with that, so I need to make sure I trust the company too. I feel a headache coming on . . .

Thanks for asking about my pup’s health issues. The one who is not doing well is only 6 years old and his issues are illusive. He’s an 80 lb mixed breed – probably boxer and black lab, maybe some pit bull, maybe some great dane. A real mutt. About a year ago (right after I lost a dog to osteosarcoma), he started going downhill. Lack of stamina and not getting around as well as he used to. He has had use of only 3 legs since he was a puppy, but before the downturn he made due pretty well. And his personality started changing and he became a very anxious dog, which at first I thought was a reaction to the other dog’s death. But the anxiety persisted and then he started having seizures. At first the seizures were increasing in frequency, but thankfully now they seem to be going the other way. And his anxiety is much better now, but I go to great lengths to shield him from stress. So, of course I have done a ton of online research on dog seizures and have essentially tried everything that had any potential at all. I didn’t put him on anti-seizure meds (except CBD Oil), but came close a dozen times. If the seizures continue to become less frequent I’m hoping to avoid meds.

One thing I will point out is that (from what I have picked up from your posts) your dogs are healthy and you have a track record of dogs living to ripe old ages. I don’t have such a good record, and it does cause me anxiety when I face that fact. Perhaps, despite my good intentions, I am contributing to that bad record in the way I have fed.
Nice posting with you. Hang in there and be sure to let me know if you have any revelations. M&C

[aimee]

Hi M & C

I’ve gone down many a rabbit hole over the years. Hunting down accurate information can be a frustrating endeavor. Here is my take on NRC. NRC numbers are based on high bioavailability, something that in the real word doesn’t necessarily occur. AAFCO takes the info from NRC and pads the numbers to account for bioavailability.

AAFCO tables are by kg DM, assuming 4000 kcals/kg and they also report nutrients/ 1000 kcals . NRC does this too, but NRC also provides amounts based on body size. For example, NRC rec 3.28 grams of protein/ kg bw to the .75 power.

AAFCO tables are in Mins and Maxs. NRC has 4 columns: min, adequate, rec and safe upper limit. For many nutrients a SUL is not given because there is not sufficient research as to where to draw that line. For adult dogs there is no reported SUL for CA or Phos. For growth the SUL is 1.8% with a 4000/kcal/kg DM diet. This was based upon large breed puppy growth.

Currently I believe AAFCO table for MAX Calcium is 2.5 % EXCEPT in the case of growth of large breed puppies in which case it is 1.8%. This is why an AAFCO statement may say formulated to meet all life stages except growth of large breed puppies.

The point I was trying to make, and didn’t explain well, is that when AAFCO sets its tables it assumes that the dog is eating an average amount of calories but doesn’t define what this amount is. They leave it up to the manufacturer to determine feeding recommendations. This is a huge weak link.

It is known that when calories are calculated, any individual dog can vary by 50% from this number. So, for example, if calculated calories are 500, one individual may need 250 and another 1000.

When diets just meet AAFCO min there is an underlying assumption that the dog will be eating 500 kcals. But for those dogs that only need 250 kcals that AAFCO min may not meet the dog’s nutrient needs on a weight basis as given by NRC.

I think FEDIAF addresses this by having two data sets with one being for “inactive ” pets, but I haven’t checked to verify this. I believe this is what Susan Thixton is trying to petition the FDA to address.

That may be the easier way to address this because actually determining caloric needs is fraught with a lot of variation. But I see it as imperfect as well because it still leaves it up to the manufacturer and I’ve found considerable errors with this approach. I’ve found multiple instances in which when using the nutritional information provided by the manufacturer and using the manufacturer’s feeding recommendations the dog would not consume enough nutrients to meet NRC rec. or sometimes even min. values.

I have only found this in high cost, small company products. IMO feeding amounts are set low to make the food look more affordable. IMO, one of the most egregious examples I’ve come across was in a freeze-dried product made by a company that apparently did have by a PhD in animal nutrition on staff. So apparently even having someone with an appropriate background in nutrition in the company doesn’t insulate the consumer from errors of this type.

On the other end of the spectrum, I’ve seen companies who boost all nutrients to well above AAFCO min to better cover these “easy keepers” AND have feeding recommendations that will meet the animal’s nutrient need.

I’ve seen as a rule of thumb that if your dog needs to eat 80% or less of the recommended amount you need to switch foods to something with a higher nutrient density. The problem is that assumes the original feeding recommendations are accurate and unfortunately, they in many cases, are not.

[Patricia A]

Hello M&C,
I was agonizing about switching my three to a grain inclusive food. I believe grain free recipes came about after all those deaths of dogs’ from the contaminated mold of corn.

(December 2005, a string of pet deaths and illnesses were linked to dog and cat food produced in Diamond’s South Carolina plant. A few different brands of pet food manufactured in the plant, including Diamond, were recalled, but not before the products were shipped out nationally as well as to more than 2 dozen other countries.

The pet food was thought to be contaminated with aflatoxin, a toxic byproduct of a mold that attacks corn under certain temperature and moisture conditions. Drought, insect damage to crops, and improper storage and handling can all increase the risk of contamination.

Unfortunately, more than 100 dogs were thought to have died in 2005–2006 as a result of the tainted Diamond pet food. It remains one of the worst pet food recall events in U.S. history. Diamond vowed to reimburse customers for veterinary bills and other costs.

I discovered a dog food nutrition forum few months ago. Well, I just became so overwhelmed with those advocating that ONLY PPP should be fed if I care about my dogs’ heart health. Then there are those who hate vitamin packs in dog food. So brands such as Carna4 and Natures Logic, has no necessity for added vitamins since their claim is nutritional needs all come about naturally from their quality of ingredients..

I definitely started to doubt my choice in Stella n Chewy’s when I read a statement on their website that they add Taurine because dogs’ can’t synthesize their own taurine. After writing to them about this huge error they corrected on their site. They also had an error with stating their kibble for large breed puppies would not be appropriate since contains not ENOUGH calcium.Even though I never had a large breed puppy, I THOUGHT they needed LESS calcium in a puppy food? The DFA board has been much less active then in years past. However, a member on the board that does frequent and has always given researched, detailed replies when I post questions assured me I was correct in my understand regarding the calcium needs. I was only looking at their recipes and guaranteed analysis for their grain inclusive recipes when I came across these errors.
Well after much agonizing I made decision to stick with what all three are doing well with. Probably not very scientific but I feel the kibble with the ADDED vitamin pack gives them proper nuitrion while I add the freeze dried with only the meat and organs . Like I wrote I rotate brands in this. However, I am now transition to their Wholesome Grains baked kibble and it is agreeing with all of them.
If you read my other posts you then know I am caregiver to my mom who now lives with us. I had my two Tia and Loli Chihuahuas’ but now have her Sophie Chihuahua also. She suffers from dementia so I am always rushing my posts so I hope what I write makes sense . I enjoy the time I have reading up on new brands of freeze dried to see if I should add in rotation. But I just can’t do the big change to a new brand of kibble . it’s a small part of their diet along with home cooked when appropriate. So I’m just not looking at the dog nutrition forum anymore to further confuse me and make me doubt my choice. I don’t know if correct but someone wrote this on reddit forum.
“Anyone have any experience feeding this to their dog? Legume-free, potato-free, corn-free, higher protein, and contains wholesome grains.
It fits all of the WSAVA guidelines from an ingredient and nutrition standpoint but does not comply with their staffing requirements. I called Stella & Chewy’s to ask about that and the sales rep I spoke to said the only thing keeping them from being considered “compliant” is that they don’t have their own ACVN-certified nutritionist on payroll full time, however, she did say they outsource testing regularly to a third party ACVN-certified lab (which she also added means it’s tested more thoroughly).
Just a thought for anyone looking to feed WSAVA compliant food but wants to avoid the filler ingredients in the big 4 corporate brands. Brands with grains but without legumes or corn seem tough to come by these days.
Between boutique brands telling you to feed your dog like a wolf to corporate brands telling you they’re “backed by science”, it’s hard to cut through the marketing BS in the dog food world.”
Anyways, I do believe our dogs’/cats for you also are eating better then us. At least me since I REALLY do need that Ben n Jerry’s Cookie Dough Icecream to relax me at night. While “the girls” get their string bean and Bixbi treat and when I’m not looking a piece of cheddar from my hubby. lol

[Christy K]

My 12 year old girl who used to eat anything and everything came down with HGE in November, a few weeks after getting a puppy. I was pretty good (not perfect) about making sure she didn’t eat my puppy’s food (Orien Large Puppy 16% fat) because she is overweight and will eat it all. I was feeding a mix of Kirkland Nature’s Domain (16% fat) and Authority Grain Free (22% fat) as well as fish oil for the last few years. I then switched her to Orijen Senior (15%) fat about a month or so before the puppy. I did also give her some treats more often (puppy training) but not a ton. After the first bout of HGE, I stopped the oil and she seemed great. Right after Christmas – I let her and my puppy lick some turkey drippings out of a pan and she also had a real bone (the dried kind from the feed store). I noticed a little bit of blood but solid poop. I switched her to Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal (over the course of about a week, still 1/2 and 1/2). About two weeks after I noticed her stools got looser and then real bad diahhrea. Took her to the vet the next day (after feeding straight GI food and electrolytes) and she had really bad bloody/water diarrhea. She is getting better but the vet thinks I need to switch her to a low fat diet the rest of her life.

I am on the fence because she was eating much lower than she used to. I also saw her drinking some water in big dishes I leave out for my tortoise and chickens, which had sat out a couple weeks. I think it might be a bacterial thing. However, they messed up and never tested her stool and she now on antibiotics so I won’t ever know.

That said, I don’t like Royal Canin GI because it’s slaughterhouse waste and I think way too low fat (5%), but I would like to get her on some lower fat food as well as a good digestive gut health food. But, most gut health foods are 12% or more. The low fat foods (dog food advisor recommended) for low fat that have lower fat are Nulo Healthy Weight and Merrick but neighter seem particularly focused on gut health. I could always get extra pre and probiticvs but it would be bnice to have them in one.

So, – food recommendations? Pre and probiotics recommendations? Experiences with HGE?

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

When purchasing kibble for my own pets, I want something that is no longer than 6 months post production date. My 6 month rule isn’t written in stone and that number is based on absolutely nothing other than my own personal preference. Often times what I’m buying is ~2- 3months post production date but once the bag was a mere 10 days post production date!

Natural preservatives simply are not going to have the anti oxidant potential as synthetics and since consumer demand is for natural preservatives that is the way a lot of products are produced. Storge conditions in the manufacturer warehouse and distribution center and pet store can impact how well the preservatives “hold”. I suspect under adverse storage they may not hold up for full 12-18 months so I’m hedging my bet by using shorter cut off. But this is all conjecture on my part.

Interesting that Stella and Chewy’s states an expiration of 14-18 months post production in their FAQ and the bag is dated out 5 years. Have you contacted them for an explanation? You might want to inquire if they have held the food under adverse conditions such as high heat and humidity for 5 years and then tested it to ensure excessive oxidation did not occur

While in the FAQ section, the question on feeding large breed puppies caught my eye. Their answer makes no sense to me. They write:” Things are more limited with our kibble, as you would need to stick with the puppy-specific kibble recipe (calcium and DHA levels aren’t enough for large breed puppies in non-puppy formulas)”

It seems to me they are saying there is not enough calcium or DHA in their diets that are labeled as formulated for all life stages except the growth of large breed puppies. AAFCO’s min for Ca and DHA are the same for ALL puppies. AAFCO’s profile does not require more Ca for large breed growth. The AAFCO profile places a LIMIT on how much Ca can be in a diet for large breed puppies. Diets that are labeled for growth except large breeds can only mean that the calcium level in the food EXCEEDS the maximum NOT that there is not enough calcium in the food for a large breed puppy. I’d find it very disturbing if they didn’t understand this basic nutritional concept.

[Alex B]

Hello everyone!

I have a 4-month-old Australian Shepherd puppy, and we’ve been struggling a bit with food!

We had her on the Kirkland puppy chicken food, and she’s had some issues with terrible farting that the vet said hopefully will just go away with time. I don’t mean puppy farts I mean terrible gas that could clear the room every half hour! She would also have odd bouts of puking we weren’t too worried about

So 2 months later, and this week she has been consistently regurgitating her food moments after eating it. The vet said to slow feed and small frequent meals, which worked for about 4 days. Then last night she had another bout of vomiting, (actual vomiting and not just regurgitating) that had a bit of blood in it. Took her to the vet this morning and they’re thinking she has a very sensitive tummy. They aren’t thinking its an obstruction of any sort because its been so up and down and she’s active, happy and drinks water and her poops are completely normal

They gave us the prescription Hills I/d food to try. So we’re giving it a go, but I haven’t heard the best things about this food… I was hoping I could get some advice from someone whose knowledgeable. The hills is quite expensive for us (100 bucks for 8kg).

Thank you!

[Charlie L]

Hello Everyone,
I’m hoping to get some help & guidance on how to help my 8 mo Husky male puppy. We picked him up @ 3 months old and for the first 3 months we struggled with really bad diarrhea with several high quality kibble brands. He would eat anything we put in front of him so fast we had to get him a slow feeder bowl. After a couple visits to the vet, they recommended trying Royal Canin Rx Sensitive Stomach kibble. That combined w/ some Tylan powder and pro-biotics got him pooping normally in a couple weeks and has been great since then.
However starting a couple months ago he began to throw up bile in the early hours of the morning some times, usually between 3am-7am. At first it was every couple weeks, but it has slowly become more frequent. After a couple visits to the vet and trying to feed him a biscuit treat in the middle of the night earlier so he had something in his stomach, it was still getting worse. We started giving him chewable pepcid AC at night before bed per vet’s recommendations and that didn’t seem to help either.
This went on for several weeks and then he started not wanting to eat anything at all. It was so hard to get him to eat anything. We tried a mixture of kibble and soft/canned food (All Rx because of his sensitive bowels), we tried adding low sodium chicken broth, cooked brown rice, hell even peanut butter. The vomiting kept getting more frequent and he was eating less. Took him back to the vet and they did more bloodwork and a GI and sent the results to Texas A&M University (We are in Fargo, ND) for review. Nothing wrong or conclusive with any of his tests and exams.
I know he’s hungry cuz he wants to eat anything and everything. He’ll eat all the dried up worms on the sidewalk or random chunks of dirt, we loves peanut butter almost anytime, and he’ll eat the few kernels of (plain) popcorn we sometimes give him. We did the popcorn just cuz we wanted him to eat something.
Because we knew he was hungry but just not eating the food we gave him, the vet suggested maybe trying a different brand of non-Rx kibble that might be tastier so he’ll eat it. I still tried to get something that was stomach/digestive sensitive so I picked up a small bag of Blue Wilderness Blissful Belly. He gobbled it right up the first night… and again in the morning. But that next morning/day he had explosive diarrhea that was uncontrollable for a couple days. Called the vet and she suggested we try a DIFFERENT Rx food. This time Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets EN Gastroenteric Canine Formula Kibble & Canned food. Started him back on the Tylan powder also. The diarrhea slowly got better each day and he was eating this new food pretty well. He seemed to like it enough he usually ate right away and would eat a small bowl in one feeding.
The vomiting seemed to have gone away also……until it didn’t. About 4 days into the new food he began vomiting in the night/morning again. Now he doesn’t want to eat again. Tried adding the rice, broth, chunks of fresh chicken breasts, and even mixing some melted peanut butter into it. He will barely eat anything ever. He seems to be ok with the soft/canned foot most of the time if it’s by itself, but when mixed up with anything else he will barely eat a couple bites. Still vomiting, diarrhea has some back a little but not as bad as it was. I think it’s more due to him not really getting much for nutrients or anything at all right now.
My partner & I are at a loss and we feel absolutely awful that we can’t seem to help him. He’s the sweetest thing and outside of the time when he’s throwing up, he’s the happiest most playful cuddly fur baby.
But I need some help as I don’t know how to help him and this has been going on for far too long. The vet has run out of suggestions at this point.

Can someone please help?

[Dawn K]

New-ish to the forums, so hello everyone!

I would like to request a review of the Acana & Orijen grain-free wet/canned dog foods that have recently shown up in my local PetCo. Both can be easily found by searching the PetCo site for “Acana wet” & “Orijen wet.” (I wasn’t sure if I was allowed to include hyperlinks here or not.)

I’ve been using them for a few weeks at the recommendation of PetCo staff (also known as my son’s girlfriend) & I know they’re a popular name in the industry, but I’d feel safer feeding them to my large-breed puppy (GSD/Hound mix; 13 months; 80+ pounds) & dog (Rottie/Pit/Boxer/Lab mix; 2 years; 70+ pounds) if this site gave them a good rating.

Our dogs are normally fed Wellness Complete dry (large breed puppy & large breed adult) with wet as a topper. I do not use the Acana/Orijen exclusively & offer my pups a select variety of wet toppers (usually Merrick, Canidae, Wellness, & WholeHearted), both with & without grain. I prefer with grain, but am sometimes at the mercy of what the store has in-stock.

We’ve tried most flavors & varieties of the Acana/Orijen canned offerings with mostly positive reviews from our canine taste-testers. I will say that my puppy was not a fan of either puppy option & generally refused to eat both.

Also, is it odd they they also seem to be exclusively available at PetCo? PetCo seems to be really pushing these two wet foods & they have always been in stock for the past month or so, even when other popular brands were unavailable.

Thank you in advance.

[Kurt W]

Switched to TOTW Pacific Stream for all three of my dogs, the two older dogs eat Pacific Stream adult and my English Bulldog puppy eats Pacific Stream puppy. Everything was fine for the first few months, my Bulldog puppy all the sudden broke out in a mysterious rash? TOTW was not our first suspicion based on some of the ratings TOTW has online. Over the last three days from first noticing the rash it is now out of control. We took him to the vet, the vet prescribed him antibiotics and a steroid.

My wife and I stopped giving him everything and were just feeding him TOTW, his rash is very bad, we were rubbing coconut oil on his rash, giving him Epsom salt baths “prescribed by the vet” I mean nothing seemed to work it keeps getting worse. Its all over his legs, paws, sides and around his eyes. Stressing out and reading this forum we just switched to home made food, I will say today is the first full day of home made food and he is back to his playful self, he has almost stopped inching all together, the rash does look like its starting to slowly go away.

Ill post again should the rash go away, TOTW should listen, this is a nightmare for the poor little dude, I will be super pissed if TOTW is the problem.

[Anthony A]

Hey I’ve been feeding my dog this food his whole life and I wanted to get some opinions on it. He’s a 11 month old working line german shepherd. It’s a freshly made slow cooked food that I get delivered to my home every 4 weeks. These are the ingredients, this is the puppy formula.

Puppy Formula Dog Food
Pet Wants Puppy Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for the Growth and Lactation/Gestation Stages including growth of large breed dogs (70 lb. or more as an adult).

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein, min – 28.0%
Crude Fat, min – 17.0%
Crude Fiber, max – 3.5%
Moisture, max – 10.0%
Omega 6 Fatty Acid * (min) – 3.25%
Omega 3 Fatty Acid * (min) – 0.68%
* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles.

Ingredient Panel:
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Ground Grain Sorghum, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Oat Groats, Whitefish Meal, Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pea Protein, Menhaden Fish Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Ground Flaxseed, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage (Source of Chondroitin Sulfate), Potassium Chloride, Salt, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Dried Cranberries, Dried Blueberries, Fructooligosaccharide, Turmeric Powder, Dried Carrots, Dried Spinach, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl- 2-Polyphosphate, Mixed Tocopherols, Niacin Supplement, Kelp Meal, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Acetate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Bifidobacterium animalis fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus reuteri fermentation product.

[meky6ra]

Hi, everyone! I used to read the forums often, but stopped two years ago when my dog died. My family just adopted a puppy, so I’m back to find a good puppy food for her.

Wow, dog food has changed a lot – for the better! Purina is one of the Editor’s Choice foods… That’s a real surprise. So now I’m trying to decide between Purina ProPlan and the food that I used to feed, which was from Rayne Clinical Nutrition. Rayne used to make prescription food only, but makes some non-prescription food now. I can never find much info about Rayne, though. Does anyone have anything to share? Many thanks!

[Charles M]

Hi,

Other than this site and forum, I have browsed through many and many websites, but there is no proper fact-based information or advice which I could find on what meat would be better for a certain dog breed.

I have a Working English Cocker Spaniel who is turning 12 months and I wanted to figure out if I should go with red or white meat-based dry food for him. We are currently on Orijen Puppy. I can see many people recommend Orijen Regional Red for Cocker Spaniels, but I am worried about that it is heavily red meat-based only without any white and poultry meat. On the other hand, Orijen Original is heavily poultry meat-based food.

I wanted to ask members with more understanding and dog dietary expertise if:

• Should I get Orijen Regional Red which is red meat-based food for my Cocker Spaniel?
• Or should I get the Orijen Original which is poultry meat-based food for my Cocker Spaniel?
• Or should I feed him on both by mixing up the Reg Regional with the Original to provide a more balanced diet?

Thanks in advance, for helping me with this.

[Amanda H]

I have a 14 year old Jack Russel Terrier who eats just about anything, hhe is in good health and pretty ideal weight. We have been feeding him him small breed kibble, no specific brand, tried staying with Nutro but would switch it up cause he needed to get bored…. Now we have an 8 week old great dane, who came with Diamond naturals puppy food. She has pretty much refused to eat her kibble, but instead prefers the JRTs, cheaper less quality food. Even when topped with large breed puppy canned food. I know the great danes diet is critical for her health. can my senior JRT eat her food and still maintain a healthy life? My jrt has always been a nibbler only eating a little here and there so I can’t just take the food away out of their reach…

[Susan]

Hi my rescue boy suffers with IBD, vet said he was eating a POOR diet old owners probably kept feeding him a poor quality pet food that had ingredients he was sensitive too for the first 4yrs of his life before I rescued him.

If you can afford to see a Animal Nutritionist to make him a balance raw diet or cooked diet this will be the best….
Dogs Digestive Tract is short made to digest a raw diet.
Follow Dr Judy Morgan she has her Yin & Yang book, she has easy to make balanced recipes online. There’s a few people you can follow so your new pup has a healthy start to his life & your right kibble isn’t the best, kibble is processed & cooked at very high temps, all nutrients are killed & then they have to add synthetic vitamins that are from China & have killed thousands of dogs big recalls over the years. Hills just had a big recall too much Vitamin D in their pet foods.
If you want to feed 1 of the big 4 pet food companies then look at Royal Canin. You can also contact Royal Canin & speak with 1 of their Nutritionist they will help you work out whats best to feed your growing pup.

I have found a Grain Free potato diets have been best for my boy when he has diarrhea/sloppy poos etc when I first rescued him. The Potato firms up poos, soothes stomach, easy to digest & let his stomach & bowel heal.

If you are feeding a Dry kibble look for a limited ingredient kibble to start with, less is best, less to react too, get your puppy stable for 3-4 months, no sloppy poos, also put him on a good dog Probiotic unless the dog food “Wellness” has Probiotics in them .

“Wellness” – been making pet food over 100yrs-
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

“Cana4” – does not use any Synthetic vitamin mixes, is made in Canada-

Our Story

“Instinct Original Grain-Free Dry” –
https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/limited-ingredient-diet

[Susan]

Hi
Stop feeding the Stella & Chewy raw..
Find a free range human grade raw company or make your own raw diet with human grade raw meats/green veggies.
Sounds like the raw meat might be high in Toxins, Heavy Metals & Contaminates. Toxins can cause elevated ALT levels??
This was happening with my boy 2yrs ago when he ate a certain USA kibble he kept having elevated ALT levels..Then this USA pet food company was all over the internet being sued for their kibble being very HIGH IN TOXINS.
As soon as I changed his diet to a different brand his elevated ALT levels went back to normal.
My dogs Nutritionist who formulated my dog raw diet said to only use human grade meats I eat, she would NOT let me feed any of these Pre-made raw pet foods.
It’s worth a try changing diet & see what happens, also your dog needs to be on a large breed puppy diet till 2yrs old so his growing bones don’t grow too quickly & cause joint problems later on, if you have the money find a Nutritionist to balance him a raw diet made from Human grade ingredients + blended green veggies so diet is not too high in calcium and phosphorus & hopefully toxin free…
https://todaysveterinarynurse.com/articles/giant-expectations-nutrition-for-the-large-breed-puppy/

[Nicole R]

So I have been led to this forum because my Aussie Doberman mix, Buddy, started these gulping episodes, and they stress me out so bad. His first attack started shortly after he turned a year old. He got the gulps and did the frantic swallowing, licking thing, but this was also accompanied by a bad allergic reaction where he had hives on his mouth and testicles. Took him to the vet, they gave him a shot to clear everything up and he was fine for the next month or so until last week.

I’m wondering if these gulping episodes are stress related because they didn’t start again until after a very scary incident happened with one of our other dogs. We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback who slipped out of his collar while on a walk and ran into the street and was hit by a car. Fortunately he is okay, but he did have to get a few staples in his leg and it was just a super scary and intense situation all around. The very next night after that happened, Buddy had a violent attack where he licked, gulped, tried to eat carpet, made the most aweful retching sound and vomitted 4-5 times. I gave him Pepto and Benedryl and after about 2-3 hours he finally calmed down. He started doing this on a daily basis so I took him to the vet and they are saying Acid Reflux, and prescribed Faotidine and Calming Care Purina Pro Plan. I also put him on a sensitive skin and stomach food, just in case it is food related, and I’m feeding him smaller meals, 3 times a day. I also give him one Claratin a day because he does have post nasal drip and is allergy prone.

We are on day three of this regimen, and Buddy still gulps sometimes throughout the day, but he is not vomiting anymore, and he is keeping his food down which is great. He does seem to get more anxious in the evening, and I’ve found that when the gulping and licking starts to escalate and he’s trying to eat the carpet, I put him in a pen we have set up in our back room and he calms instantly. Everything stops and he just chills out. He slept in the pen for a good portion of his puppyhood, so I think it’s a safe haven for him and definitely stops the episodes in it’s tracks. Which makes me wonder if they are neurological or anxiety triggered? If so, is giving him Pepcid and anti-acid even necessary? I like the calming probiotic the vet prescribed, but I really don’t want to keep drugging my dog, and I’m truly at a loss here and not sure how to proceed. Thanks for reading my story.

[Patricia A]

Susan I read over Sienna’s post and really doesn’t sound like IBD by her description. Symptoms I always believed by others posts who’s dog’s suffered from IBD were LACK of appetite, vomiting and diahrreah. She wrote her pooch does fine on kibble. If I read in-between the lines it seems her main concern is her behavior. That being her dog is so distracted looking for food on ground that she doesn’t walk. But this really stood out in Sienna’s post…”If I feed her more to satisfy her hunger, she becomes much more reactive and defensive.”
I’m hoping Sienna replies with my question of a description of her boxer being reactive and defensive when she feeds enough for satiation. So if she’s worried about this behavior she’s feeding less then what the dog needs to ever feel full hence the content hunger?
Each dog I had the pleasure to share my life with has had little quirks in personality. Some good some I would rather them have not possessed.” My foremost concern was always their health. Personality traits I could change I worked on. Others were accepted as “that’s just the way they were born.” Gets harder if a pet was adopted past puppyhood. Never know what their situation was which led to a fearful dog, aggressive dog because of fear etc. My moms dog has submissive pee since she brought her home. Go down to pet her and she wets. Without going into detail her last owners were not too nice to her.
So what I’m getting at is for Sienna to work on what truly is a health concern causing her dog to suffer and what is a personality trait that MAYBE can be worked on or something just to accept. Just seperate the two so a NEW vet can focus on her health. Hope this makes sense.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Elizabeth R]

We went on our vet’s recommendation of the Science Diet canned food and grain. Remember when dogs were being poisoned through their dog food? We had a Rescue puppy at the time which started to throw up along with our 9 y/o Aussie. We talked to the vet and he said to give her little balls of the canned Science diet food. They both continued to throw up. We started to cook eggs for them. They stopped throwing up. Thinking they may have had a stomach issue that had cleared, we gave them the recommended Science Diet. They began to throw up again. Our older dog (Aussie) who went into Liver failure. Because our vet did not take us seriously, we took her to another vet. (Our baby was saved at a specialty hospital, but never fully recover- she started to have seizures). That first vet continues to recommend Science Diet.

So in my opinion- No – Vet’s recommendations Are based on the reps of dog food. Or at least the vet we went to did not research. Maybe the Science Diet is a “good food” but obviously the manufacturer makes the food with the same ingredients as the cheeper ones- as our dogs were poisoned too – and the high dollar Science Diet was not immune from the poisoned ingredients.

We do give our dog a little bit of kibbles “Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance: Limited Ingredients Diets” but mostly we make the food at home now.

After we began feeding our Aussie homemade food ONLY, she lived for 8 more years to the ripe old age of 17💕.

[Thomas Carroll]

My male Labrador Retriever is 14 months and 20 days old. I have been feeding him “Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula Grain-Free Dry Dog Food” since I have had him at 12 weeks old.

When should I switch my Labrador from puppy dog food to adult dog food? Is it supposed to be when he has stopped growing? The sire is 110-120lbs and the Dam is 90-95lbs. My dog is a male and I would guess that he is close to 80lbs now.

[kathryn B]

My6 month olf LhasaPoo does not seem to be interested in her food. I feed Merrick Classic Puppy with grain mixed with Whole Earth canned. I have tried different flavored Whole Earth cans and even feeding just dry or just wet. She did finish one 4 lb bag of dry and 12 cans prior, but now turns up her nose.Time to change brands ?

[Melinda M]

Sometimes the best food is the worst food. I have a 5.5 yr old American bulldog. He had skin issues, yeast, waxy ears, hot spots, rashes, k9 acne, you name it he had it.
I had him on Merrick, orajen, froom, every expensive kibble out there. Nothing helped. I know Raw is the best but at 112lbs, I cant afford it myself to feed him 8 dollar a day food.
So I got desperate and went to walmart because I had given up. I spotted new food on their shelves, NOOD. He prances around like a puppy now. Skin is perfect. No issues with gas or stools and his skin is no longer pink.

[Patricia A]

A wee bit older then you kathleenl. Don’t remember growing up with our dogs even being fed kibble. Just chicken, veggies, hamburger etc. Our poodles snowflake lived to 15. Don’t think he was vaccinated beyond his puppy shots either. I finally stopped my obsession and anxiety over my two’s diet and whether or not I was feeding the right food with all the choices . I think variety is the best . One tend to gain weight so I always have to watch my hubby sneaking cheese, pasta etc. in big pieces. lol He says those “hungry eyes” get to him too. lol
Glad I helped with suggestion and hope they like the Primal even as treats. Good luck with your fur babies.

[Kathleen H]

Actually his weight is great! he weighs just under 10lbs. He is technically a mix of a shortie and parsons. He has the long legs like his mother, His dad had the short legs. He was also the runt of the litter. He looks buff. He runs and jumps and plays like a puppy at times. The last vet visit his vet said he and my 12 yr old Border Collie mix are very healthy for their age and look half their age! I have been giving them both CBD pellets made from the entire hemp plant the last 4 yrs which IMO has helped their coat and their old age everything. Back to my JRT Einstein, I walk him every 4 hours. It does seem like the lipoma has been pressing near where he urinates and I have seen his little ” wee, wee” when he is having a bowel movement the past month…I had NEVER seen it ever as he was neutered as soon as he was able years ago. The only difference is the switch of food. I have considered grain-free but having eliminated corn, wheat and soy in the kibble they had been eating did improve both of their coats and my BC mix no longer has skin allergies.I do believe they need a few grains. Im just wondering if the fat content in the food could just be adding to the bulk in his stomach.and he is not digesting it well.It has had no ill effects on my BC mix. As I stated he does relieve himself, both ways every 4 hours when I take them out as does the BC mix. The Vet did say the lipoma might eventually get in the way of him urinating but advised against surgery at his age even several years ago. I absolutely hate the idea of going back to kibble full-time because of the vitamin D that sometimes gets through in almost any brand!. I know I will get backlash from this but I was feeding them Rachel Ray Nutrish Real Chicken and veggies recipe which was a come up from the Beneful they had always eaten as einsteins parents ate it and I just kept him on it after I was able to take him home. When I rescued My BC Mix..he just ate what Einstein ate. I spend more money on my dogs than I do myself! As far as vaccines go…They got whatever was required up until 3 years of age, the distemper/parvo and something else combo. They only get Rabies every 3 years. They did, however, get the distemper booster two years ago. I had a vet when I lived in PA tell me unless my dogs were around other dogs they really did not need that vaccine after the age of 3. Well, when I moved back to NY this vet said she had heard that from a lot of people and talked me into getting that done several years ago. That was only because I have an RV and my dogs are in the woods a lot. I did not get them the Lyme disease shot because I believe that their monthly Advantix II should take care of ticks anyways. I believe less is best! Idk I guess I will just talk to their vet about the food when they go to their wellness exam in about 6 wks.I guess what it really boils down to is at 12 years of age I know my time left with them is less than the time I’ve had with them and my anxiety gets the best of me. Thank you for your response and I am sorry this has been such a long reply!

[Kendra J]

Hi, Anne A. I’m coming in late to the game, but wanted to tell you that you are NOT ALONE. Loving a dog with Short Bowel is easy, but dealing with the special issues it can create is definitely challenging. My 3 month old Rottweiler puppy had a 75% resection of her small intestine following intussusception caused by a savage battle with Giardia. She recovered like a champ and after two rounds of nutritional absorption tests she was able to come off of B12 shots and taurine supplements. She’s now 15 months and 80 pounds (a petite little thing due to her not growing much in her first 3-4 months because of that infection, then surgery and recovery). We are feeding her over 2,000 calories a day just to keep her at 80 pounds – which based on her frame is a lean, but nice-looking weight on her according to our vet. After trying multiple off-the-shelf foods (Canidae All Life Stages, FirstMate Grain Friendly varieties, Wellness Core, Wilderness, etc.) she would end up with soft, almost-diarrhea consistency stool. We gave two weeks of transition time between varieties, then kept her on each for only about a month (as long as she would tolerate it). She’s currently on Purina EN (gastrointestinal diet) and getting some canned food as a topper because she’s bored stiff of the kibble. Her stools are fantastic, but she has to try to eat 6 cups of it a day, plus the topper. That’s A LOT OF FOOD for any dog to try to get down and I’m not keen on the ingredients – but do readily admit that she’s doing well. I’m looking to try her back on some off-the-shelf varieties, so if you’ve had success, I’d definitely like to hear about it!!!

[Ronald B]

Lauren – I wish I could help you make this decision. I don’t think that I have an opinion on the quality of Royal Canin or Purina. Prior to prescription foods recommended by my Vet, we never used either. Both have non-prescription dry/wet foods, that I probably wouldn’t feed to my pet(s) if it wasn’t prescription. I’m sure others will have opinions about the companies and source of the ingredients but all i can do at this point is trust in my Vet of 20 years. At her age, I’m trying to ensure she has a good/great quality of life without having to endure any more surgeries. So far, it has prevented any new crystal formation, her weight and energy has been great and she actually likes to eat both of them. Something that I can’t say about Science Diet prescription food, which she wouldn’t touch. I guess what I’m saying is that we decided to stay with what is working for her, regardless of how I feel about the companies that produce the food.

P.S. I should also say that during the past year, my puppy has also been undergoing treatment for Melanoma (cancer) at the University of Florida Veterinary School. They were fully involved with my Vet concerning treatment of the crystals and signed off on her current diet.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Ronald B.

[Andrea V]

My husky puppy is now 17 weeks old and has been diarrhea free for the first time since I took her home at 8 weeks. We tried all kinds of puppy chow, soft and kibble, tested over and over for parasites. I was up at night and all day trying to take care of her needs and she was clearly uncomfortable. Finally read about some homemade dog food, and discovered a simple recipe I have been feeding her and she has now been producing excellent, normal BMs. I buy a rotisserie chicken, take the skin, bones, gristle out and shred it/chop it up finely, cook 2 sweet potatoes (medium size) in the microwave on the potato setting, cool and mash it with a fork, and cook 1/2 cup of Cream of Rice cereal with 2 cups of water, adding salt to the water, and a tablespoon of butter to the cooked cereal. Let it all cool, mix it up, and divide it into three or four portions. My dog eats a lot, maybe because she is still underweight. She has been diarrhea free for 10 days. This has helped her enormously, although it is very time consuming to put together these meals. I can now supplement (last 3 or 4 days) with the Pedigree dry kibble my 8 year old Lab eats, and plain (not flavored or food colored) Milk Bones in the Small size. I have been working closely with our vets during this time. It is just so bewildering to see a little puppy so overcome with diarrhea. Hope this helps someone.

[GSDsForever]

I would like to see more dog foods from Europe, those that are available here in the United States (and Canada), have a review page here on DFA.

I like the different ingredient sourcing, standards, feeding/care philosophies sometimes found in Europe. Farmina is a good example. I’d love to know of more options. I also really like when European labels list ingredient percentages.

One of the things I like best about Dog Food Advisor is discovery of quality foods I am not familiar with — that I may not see in my local store, but which I can either buy online or have them special order.

How about reviewing Fish4Dogs? It’s very popular in Europe and has a US page:
https://fish4dogsus.com/
Puppy: https://fish4dogsus.com/collections/puppy-food
Dogs: https://fish4dogsus.com/collections/high-fish-content-dog-food

From Norway, it offers yet another option for owners of dogs wanting fish formulas or avoiding chicken, etc.

[Patricia A]

Mona the only difference in the puppy Stella’s freeze dried is the size which has smaller patties. So the feeding guideline on back of bag is suggestive amounts of patties to feed for poundage of puppy. I accidentally purchased the puppy bag of freeze dried once. I called and asked if it would be okay to feed my adult dog and they assured me that the ingredients are the same as in adult formulas. Just smaller so I would have to give more for the calories she needed. Hope this helps. I also got mine used to Primal freeze dried which they also do very well with. hope this helps.

I also want to add that ALL I believe of Stella’s Chewy’s freeze dried is Hpp processed. Companies that make raw food for pets primarily use two methods to insure the safety of their products. … Raw pet food maker Stella & Chewy’s uses both high pressure pasteurization (HPP) and UV technology to deliver a pathogen-free finished product. The company has patented their system.
Primal freeze dired also uses hpp in some of their flavors. I stick to the turkey/sardine and duck.Primal will be implementing High-Pressure Processing (HPP) into our product line beginning the week of June 6th, 2011 for poultry products only. Poultry products utilizing HPP will be designated by a code date of 070812 or later. Red meat products will not be utilizing HPP. Below is a complete list of products utilizing HPP, as well as non-HPP products.
HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Chicken, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey & Sardine
Feline Formulas: Chicken & Salmon, Duck, Pheasant, Quail, Turkey
Mixes and Grinds: Chicken, Turkey
All Raw Meaty Bones: Chicken Backs, Chicken Necks, Chicken Wings, Turkey Necks
Non-HPP Products
Canine Formulas: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Feline Formulas: Beef & Salmon, Pork, Rabbit, Venison
Mixes and Grinds: Beef, Lamb, Pork, Sardine
Raw Goat Milk
Bone Broth: All Bone Broth
Recreational Bones: All Recreational Bones
Primal Treats: All Primal Treats
https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/beef-salmon-puppy

• This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Patricia A.

[Mona S]

I noticed that in the Best of for Puppies, that only wet and dry foods were listed. Stella and Chewy has a raw freeze dried food for puppies, but otherwise most raw foods seem to be formulated for all life stages. Does Dog Food Advisor have a position on feeding raw to puppies?

My vet is strongly against it as she believes their microbiomes are not developed enough to handle it. But she also recommended Purina Pro Plan as the best food, so nutrition is obviously not her strong point.

Thanks,
Mona
p.s. my particular puppy is a mini aussie, so don’t need to take large breed feeding into consideration.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Alberto!
Congratulations to you! A beautiful bloodhound, huh? How awesome.

You definitely feed a food that is formulated specifically for a large breed puppy. This will help ensure her joints to grow at a healthy pace.

In my opinion, I would feed either Purina ProPlan or One, Royal Canin, Eukanuba or Hill’s Large Breed Puppy food. Royal Canin might even have a formula specific for bloodhound puppies.

These companies all have done feeding trials on their foods.

I would not feed Acana. It has been associated with Dilated Cardiomyopathy in dogs. Especially larger dogs.

Good luck to you!

[GSDsForever]

Suraj,

I would feed any dog, large breed or otherwise, with a significant breed risk of hip or elbow dysplasia (and therefore DJD) a food with the following:

3.5g Calcium or Lower Per 1000 Calories
Actual (Typical Analysis) Calcium-Phosphorous Ratio of 1.3 :1 to 1:1

The guaranteed analysis you have provided above, which refers ONLY to minimum for calcium and phosphorus, does not tell us this. You would need to call the brand for this, unless it is posted on their website.

I would feed any *large breed* puppy prone to orthopedic structure, growth issues, and injury a food that is additionally suitable for SLOW, controlled growth and I would keep the puppy lean.

I would feed a *puppy of any breed/mix* a formula that I could verify a FULL nutrient profile and ensure it met safe and optimal levels of all nutrients, from a good and trustworthy company, preferably a formula with some longevity of safely feeding puppies (my own breed included).

I cannot recommend ANY formula of dog food (for ANY reason) based on just a guaranteed analysis from the bag. No one can (or should). It doesn’t provide enough information, about anything.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by GSDsForever.

[Patricia A]

I was looking at the k kals in freeze dried Stella and Chewy’s. I want to rotate to the lowest come the winter months when my easy to get chubby Chihuahua gets less exercise.
Primal Turkey/Sardine is the lowest actually coming in at 38.5 when I broke it down per nugget. which I do rotate with.However, Tia really loves Stella’s, so I will occasionally give the chicken at 50 kals per patty. However, when i just glanced at their puppy freeze dried the calories per patty was only 32 kkals.
Firstly, I always thought that puppies need HIGHER calories since they are growing? Can’t imagine how many patties you’d have to feed to a larger breed puppy. Why would the puppy formula be lower in calories per patty then the adult?
Anyway just would like to know is their ANY reasons why a nine year old dog cannot be fed puppy food if the calories are this low?? I asked this question in Stella’s P/M but they haven’t gotten back to me as of yet . Just thought I’d throw out the question on the board .
The freeze dried is used as a topper to kibble.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Suraj D]

My puppy is 7 weeks old and i am feeding a brand which recommend one formula of food for weaning puppies and small/medium breed puppies.
They also have another formula specific for large breed puppies.
I want your opinion that after 8weeks can I continue with small/medium puppy formula or should switch to large puppy formula?

Small/medium formula nutrition information:
Crude Protein 31 %
Crude Fat 19 %
Crude Fibre 4.8 %
Calcium 1.2 %
Phosphorus 1.0 %
Total Omega-3,6 3.8 %
EPA 0.2 %
DHA 0.3 %
Energy (kcal/kg ME) 3615

Large puppy formula nutrition information:
Crude Protein 29 %
Crude Fat 17 %
Crude Fibre 3.6 %
Calcium 1.1 %
Phosphorus 0.9 %
Total Omega-3,6 3.4 %
EPA 0.3 %
DHA 0.4 %
Energy (kcal/kg ME) 3680

[Patricia A]

Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.

So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.

And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,

Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.

Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.

Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.

So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.

[Patricia A]

Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.

So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.

And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,

Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.

Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.

Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.

So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[crazy4cats]

Congratulations on your new furry family member! Large breed pups are dogs that will be over 50 or 60 pounds when they are full grown. It doesn’t look like the new puppy will be that big. But, you could always feed a large breed puppy food if you are not sure.

I only feed my pets food that are WSAVA compliant. They are Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Iams, Purina, and Hill’s. They all sell puppy food that would be great for your new addition. I feed my dogs mostly Purina ProPlan. They are doing great! Good luck!

[Alisha T]

We are going to be adopting another furry member to our family today and I am a little confused about the Large Breed issue. I have had dogs in my life all of my life and I never realized until coming to this site that getting specific food for a puppy that will be large is so important. Lola, our five year old Goldendoodle is only 10 pounds and so luckily this doesn’t apply to her. The one we will be adopting has a mother is who 35 lbs and father 25 lbs. My question is does this qualify as “Large Breed”? Lola has been so hard to feed due to her being picky and I have tried all of the high end foods and after five years of expensive dog food that had to be tossed in the end we have landed with the Fresh Pet Select that you get in the fridge. Not ideal but it is healthy and she eats. Any advice on what new puppy should be eating?

[Susan]

Hi Whiskey D,

Please make appointment with a Holistic Vet or I contacted a Animal Nutritionist, DO NOT ADD calcium you need someone who will balance diet for your pup.
Your dog is probably getting enough calcium if he’s eating bone in diet??

“Excess Calcium Isn’t Good for Dogs. … Because of this, some owners feel their dog or puppy – particularly if he is a large breed – should be given extra calcium. But too much calcium can have the opposite effect: excess calcium can slow bone and cartilage development, even stunt growth.”

Rodney Habib is studying & doing his degree, his large breed white dog “Sammy” is nilly 18yrs old, all 3 of his dogs are all feed balance raw diets… Rodney has more brains then the negative people on DFA who always post negative post about him & other people all the time..

Do your research, join Raw feeding groups – “The Possible Canine” Catherine Lane, Dr Judy Morgan- Pup Loaf, Lew Olson – “K-9 Natural” group – Dr Laurie Coger f/b page..
Steve Brown is really good to follow, he recommends adding { 1-2 Mussels, 1 tablespoon Salmon & a pinch of Kelp} daily to balance a dogs diet…… Tin Salmon has bones, drain water, mash bones thru the salmon & put in air tight container put in fridge look for the lowest salt/sodium % on can..

Dr Karen Becker has a few good books with balanced raw recipes – msg her on her F/B page, she was releasing a new book last year.

Feed healthy whole foods, veggies, fruit, “Sardines” are VERY healthy & help balance a dogs diet, also “Mussels” very healthy both foods have natural calcium, vitamins/minerals, chicken frames are nice soft bone, chicken drumsticks, turkey legs, turkey necks… look for Wholesalers who sell to the supermarkets & Butcher shops that’s what we do in Australia we buy from the wholesalers….its fresh then you freeze in sections…

[Lisa B]

I want to share my experience with Ziwi Dog Food.
In December of last year, we took our 15 yo Pom, Bailey, in for a dental. Her bloodwork came back perfect. Her ALT was in the low
100’s. Our vet said anything below 200 was acceptable for her age.
Sometime in January, I made the switch from a frozen raw food
to Ziwi. Within a few weeks, I noticed Bailey’s appetite had
started to decline. Unfortunately, I attributed it to her age. Bailey had been in excellent health except for early dental disease as the result
of being in a puppy mill for her first two years. In the last few years, she began losing her hearing and then vision, but she was perfectly healthy other than these issues. Because I thought her picky eating was related to her age, I did NOT act quickly enough and take her to our vet. I mean, her bloodwork was perfect right? So for the next 2 months it was a daily struggle to find something that would appeal to Bailey’s taste. In March, I took her in for an examination. Initially,
Our vet thought kidney failure; however, after checking kidney function he checked her liver enzymes. Her ALT was 2664!!! How in the world? I had an extremely difficult time convincing
our vet it was not Lepto. We had absolutely no standing water anywhere on our property let alone our furkids’ fenced yard. Also, because of Bailey’s vision loss we stayed with her while she was outside. In fact, we never leave any of our 5 Poms or GSD outside without one of us. Believe me when I tell you that I tried absolutely everything to get her ALT within an acceptable range from giving her daily B12 injections to feeding through a syringe to adding Denamarin and even insisting on a prescription for prednisone to increase her appetite. She improved a little for about a month. Her next ALT was 1600 so I thought we were making some improvements, but she began declining again and this time she did not improve. She had lost about half her body weight and was so frail. I knew she was telling me it was time to let her go. That was May 1st. In June, our Bandit suddenly stopped eating. Never was there any other sign he was unwell – just a lack of appetite as with Bailey. No vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I immediately took him to our vet to have his enzymes checked and his ALT was 400!!! Our vet did an ultrasound and saw no evidence of a mass or something to explain the elevated ALT. Our vet prescribed the Hills KD which I was not in favor of so I purchased Dr Harvey’s Paradigm Superfood and went back to a low protein slightly-cooked diet. I immediately bought milk thistle and SAM-e for pets and gave him the maximum dose of milk thistle for his weight. Based on my research, the denamarin did not contain an adequate amount of milk thistle for pets whose liver was
damaged. Within a few weeks, our Poms, Cricket and Rumor , suddenly stopped eating. I knew if Cricket EVER refused a meal something was wrong. Sure enough, they both had elevated ALT – Cricket was 183 and Rumor was 150. After much debate with our vet, I immediately stopped feeding them the Ziwi and began the same protocol as Bandit. I also stopped the Half Moon organic dog
which are extremely high protein (as is Ziwi). Our vet added Ursodial which is bile acids. Bandit’s last liver panel was nearly perfect. His
ALT was 140 (he is 7 and this is high-normal, but within an acceptable range. Cricket and Rumor will be re-tested next week, but I already feel confident their ALT will be an acceptable number because their appetites have returned. Oh, one last thing! We had liver panels performed on our Piper (our super-size Pom at 17lbs) GSD Sadie, and their results were perfect! How could this be? The only differences were: they were not exclusively fed the Ziwi (I halved it with the Stella & Chewy and Open Farm freeze-dried raw) and size. Our 4 Poms who had elevated ALT’s were between 6 and 11lbs and fed exclusively the Ziwi air dried. Does anyone think this is merely a coincidence? I cannot accept it as coincidence. I am trying to get them back to a home-prepared raw (or slightly cooked) diet. I
had them all on a raw diet for about 7 months a few years ago, and
they loved it. My only concern at that time was my concern that I wasn’t adding the correct amount of necessary vitamins and minerals for each one of them, but I recently learned Dr Karen Becker (an holistic veterinarian) has formulated a meal mixer that contains everything necessary to ensure my home-prepared diet is nutritionally balanced. If anyone is interested, you can find the meal mix available at Mercola Healthy Pets website.

[Jennifer M]

I used to feed my dogs Purina Proplan 20 yrs ago and when I noticed my Cocker Spaniel started to itch around the time that grain-free food b/c popular, I switched her over to them. In 2013, she was 11 and we had a new lab puppy and I did research and fed them them, the best food I thought at the time which was Orijen and Acana. Because it was so high protein, I then switched my Cocker over to Fromm. My Cocker did develop a heart murmur in the last 2 yrs of her life, so not sure if it was from having been fed grain free or of her age, but I have read the studies and there definitely is something going on. For me, having had a Dane with DCM, I don’t wish that on any dog, so I switched my lab and new Cocker puppy off grain free completely. Ironically, thinking of going back to Purina Proplan. What I do notice is that chicken usually causes itchiness, while fish based does not in many dog foods. Lamb i usually a good choice as well, but many dogs don’t always like it.

[D]

Commercial or Homemade- I do a bit of both. There are a few pet stores that offer a rewards program. For instance, if you buy ‘X’ amount of frozen dinners you get one free. I find going raw is not all that expensive. Also, remember you will save money in the long run from not needing to go to the Vet from issues concerning dry kibble. Such as allergy meds, reactions, cancer, etc…
Ordering food tends to be more costly, you may be better off going to a local butcher or a local grocery store and find meat there, i have a great success finding offal in grocery stores, very inexpensive too. Make sure you wash any meat you buy from the grocery store thoroughly and freeze meat no less than 3 days in order to kill any bacteria that may have contaminated the meat.
Make sure you clean up after your dog eats. I will brush my dogs teeth after eating if i plan on letting him lick me or my guests to ensure no spreading of bacteria. (Vet’s Best Dog Toothbrush and Enzymatic Toothpaste Set | Teeth Cleaning and Fresh Breath Kit with Dental Care Guide| Vet Formulated is a great toothbrush and toothpaste) I’ve been feeding my puppy raw for a year now and noticed tremendous results. I will never revert to kibble again.
My vet strongly advised me not to go raw and at the same time tried to push Royal Canon on me. The same dog food that nearly killed my last dog.
One of my friends is a vet and she told me that they do not spend much time in school learning about raw. And whatever they did cover was all negative. I have yet to hear of a dog or puppy getting seriously ill from going raw.
I wouldn’t try to convince your vet otherwise, save your breathe. Just keep doing research and you will be fine and learn so much!
There are great website out there that give you a great breakdown on meat, fat, bone, and offal percentages you should be feeding your dog.

i wish you the best of luck!
P.s. I’ve worked in feed kitchens before and seen what goes into dog kibble, its quite alarming.

[crazy4cats]

A lot has been learned about the proper way to feed large and giant breed puppies over the last 46 years. Fortunately, large breed puppy food has been formulated now to meet all the needs of the growing joints in big pups. It is no longer necessary or recommended to feed them adult food to slow down growing.
/calcium-content-analyzer/

In addition Fromm is one of the brands that the FDA has implicated in the recent increase of dogs being diagnosed with Nutritionally Mediated DCM.
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/news-events/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

[Connie I]

I have had giant breed Saint Bernards for 46 years and in four months will be adding a Caucasian Mountain Dog. They range from 180 to 204 lb . I have tried all different kinds of dog food and the best I have found and have used for a very long time is Fromm gold for large breed dogs. We don’t ever feed Saint Bernards puppy food when they’re little because it makes them grow too fast and it can cause issues in there joints later on in life. I do not have any throwing up of bile, we have no diarrhea, and they love it. We also feed Raw on top of the dry. My Saint Bernards live to be 12 and 13 years old and don’t really have any joint issues until there about 10. For anyone I would highly suggest Fromm gold large breed dog food. All you can do is try it for every individual dog by a small bag and go from there.

[Nadia K]

For those of you that have done allergy testing, what kind of test did you have run? Was it a blood test at your vet’s office or something different? I am thinking of having my puppy who is currently 10 months tested. When I got her from the breeder at 10 weeks, she was being fed Purina Pro Plan Sport. When she reached about 8 months old she flat out refused to eat her food. All the time she was on the Pro Plan she was itchy. I thought maybe it was the chicken in the kibble she was allergic to. I switched her over to Farmina Ancestral Grain lamb. Yet the itching continues. I also feed her an evening meal of Stella & Chewy freeze dried patties which she absolutely devours. They are a beef/salmon puppy formula. I really would like to figure out why she is so itchy. She has no hot spots or fur loss. Just often scratching.

[anonymous]

I have had a dog or two over the years that was a feces eater (coprophagia)
The only thing I found that worked, was to follow them around with a pooper scooper when you think they are due for a bowel movement, scoop and discard immediately, out of sight out of mind. After awhile they stop turning around to look for it. In my experience, it doesn’t matter what you feed them. Sometimes puppies will out grow this nasty habit as they mature. It is what it is. You cannot let these dogs alone with their feces.
Has the vet ruled out medical issues?

Excerpt from the article I provided via link below https://www.petplace.com/article/dogs/pet-behavior-training/coprophagia-eating-feces-behavior-in-dogs/

Coprophagia is not an abnormal behavior for canines in certain situations. Bitches naturally consume their own pup’s feces – presumably, to keep the nest clean. This behavior provides a survival benefit as it prevents unhygienic conditions from developing in the nest; a state of affairs that could lead to disease. The biological drive to eat feces, which is implanted as a survival instinct, compels nursing bitches to ingest their pups’ feces.
In addition, many puppies go through an oral stage in which they explore everything with their mouths, sometimes ingesting a variety of non-food items, including feces.

As time goes by, the majority of pups eventually learn that food tastes better than feces and they swear off the stool-eating habit for the rest of their lives. Some older puppies may continue to eat feces for a few months, but most grow out of the habit after the first year.
Barring nursing bitches, the majority of “normal” adult dogs have absolutely no interest in eating feces.
Slow learners, “oral retentives,” and pups in which habits are easily ingrained may continue to engage in coprophagia well beyond the accepted “norm” and may engage in it to excess. Such hard-core coprophagics continue the behavior long after their peers have developed new interests. Dogs like this, that seem addicted to the habit, may best be described as “compulsive.”

Below is a list of possible contributing factors though more than one may be operating in any one case.
The opportunity to observe the dam eating stool
High protein, low residue, puppy food
Irregular feeding schedule
Feeding inadequate amounts of food
Under-stimulating environment
Constant opportunity to ingest feces
Inadequate attention/supervision

[Adrianne L]

Hi, when we got our puppy, she was on a raw diet. We decided to continue that, and also introduce kibble. I didn’t like the idea of feeding my pup raw food so I decided to explore other options so I can slowly phase out raw food. Decided to try The Honest Kitchen when I heard about it. The shop owner recommended Embark for puppies as it’s highest on the protein scale for their product range. She loves it! But overtime, we noticed she started playing and eating her poop. She’ll even bring it to her bed to eat. We thought it was a behavioural change or a phase initially. Then we spoke to a trainer who suggested it could be a diet issue. So we did the elimination method, and once we stopped feeding her THK, she left her poop alone. Anyone else faces this issue/ knows what’s the issue? I’m just wondering if THK doesn’t give her the required nutrients she needs resulting in her eating her poop, or THK is so tasty that even after pooping she wants a second go at it. I still have about 3lbs left of it don’t know what to do with it.

[Ashley D]

Joanne,

I have my dogs on Merrick, large breed chicken formula. Arlo (my Weimaraner/pibble mix, has been on it since he was 8 weeks old (well the puppy formulae, then we transitioned him to the adult food). We just adopted Magnus in December 2018, and we gradually switched him over to it since Arlo was doing really well on it. I agree though, something is upsetting his stomach. This has happened twice now, and I cannot seem to figure out the triggers. My vet suggested trying him on a grain inclusive food, because grain free foods tend to be richer. She suggested something lower in protein and fat.

Patricia,

For the last 8 months he has had no issues on the food we feed him. His episode wasn’t anything with the groomer. She was only here to cut my other dog’s nails (because he Doesn’t let me do them). So there would have been nothing for him to ingest. This type of thing happened once before in the middle of the night and woke him from a deep sleep.