[Small]

How is Patch doing? I, too, have had experiences with Prednisone when my Amber had stomach issues. It does help get things under control, but sometimes with side effects. I have read that long-term use can cause Cushing’s disease. Amber developed a bladder infection that I believe was a side effect of the Prednisone. It took 3 lots of antibiotics to finally get rid of it. An ultrasound shows she still has thickening of the bladder wall after 2 months infection free. I did lots of research which led me to change her to a grain-free diet (Acana). Actually, I am now starting to incorporate Orijen. I have added probiotics, vitamins & minerals, krill oil, and a whole food supplement (all Mercola products). She had not had any diarrhea, gas, or anal gland issues since. Not to mention her coat has become soft and silky.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Small.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Small.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
Thanks for the link!

I get the ACV thing. I am bizarre, love the taste. Anyway, I only posted the information because it’s what helped Bobby through his yeasty skin issues. Every dog is different so what worked for us may or may not work for others. 😉 Did you happen to see the ACV foot bath suggestion for itchy paws? I think it is under the WDJ skin condition link.

For organic coco oil you want unrefined rather than refined. I have seen many descriptions on line, virgin, extra virgin, unrefined, cold pressed. These descriptions are referring to the process used to make the oil that keeps the most healthy benefits.

As far as using a canned topper, your pups would benefit most from a GF or 95% canned food. The most budget friendly 5 star 95% is Pure Balance from Wal-Mart ($1.25/can). I will check out my dog food spread sheet to see what I have used in the past for GF or 95% and I am sure other posters will have some suggestions for you too. Some 95% foods are only for supplemental feeding because they don’t have any added vitamins. I don’t think that it is a worry unless you decide to only feed something like this as a topper, then you would want to make sure you feed enough kibble to ensure they get their vitamins. Wal-Mart’s 95% is a balanced food.

I would also like to mention since Bobby’s skin issues have cleared I have been able to feed him GF and grain inclusive kibble, foods with potatoes, veggies, and fruits. I feed a rotational diet, I buy small bags and switch proteins and carbs with each new bag. I haven’t had any issues with yeast since I have been paying attention to the ingredients they contain. You may find you will not have to completely eliminate certain ingredients when they are healthy again; but then again you may find you might have to avoid certain ingredients, you never know. 🙂

You would refer to your kibble and canned feeding directions for the amounts to add to kibble. I add about 4 T of water to the canned food to make a gravy and extra moisture never hurts. Bobby weighs 44 lbs, on pate’ style foods I usually get four feedings and stew styles about 3-4 feedings. Some other posters will probably have some suggestions for using canned as toppers as well. Most importantly you want to observe your dogs body conditions and adjust accordingly.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Kate,

In theory, the Grandma Lucy’s pre-mix (once meat is added) should be a complete and balanced meal for your dog. You shouldn’t need to worry about other supplements though adding krill oil or fish oil can be beneficial. You can also add kefir, yogurt, or raw goats milk for probiotics.

Primal’s recommendation of feeding 2-3% of body weight is for raw food which is less calorically dense because of the amount of water in raw food. I don’t think the 2% rule carries over to dehydrated food like GL’s. I would feed the amount of food that keeps your dog in the right weight range. Feeding guidelines are just that…guidelines. Some dogs need more or less than what is suggested. It’s going to be trial and error to see what the right amount for your dog is.

I know finding a food your dog will eat has probably been very frustrating but I would keep at it. It’s best to rotate whatever food you are feeding, in this case the pre-mix. I would suggest rotating between different pre-mixes to make sure all of your bases are covered with vitamins/minerals. Some other pre-mixes you could look into include: The Honest Kitchen Preference, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, and Sojos (though I’m not a fan of that one). Also, I would limit the amount of tuna you feed as it can have high mercury levels. Canned sardines in water with no added salt would be a good fish to use and it is naturally high in omega 3s. Canned salmon is also good.

I hope this helps.

[DogFoodie]

I was just browsing “weight loss” foods and found one that looks like it would be an excellent choice.

Petcurean Go! Fit + Free Senior. 32% protein, 14% fat and 4.5% fiber. 394 kcals / cup

Ingredients look excellent: Chicken meal, turkey meal, salmon meal, de-boned chicken, de-boned turkey, de-boned trout, potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentil beans, chickpeas, pea fibre, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural chicken flavour, whole dried egg, apples, duck meal, herring meal, flaxseed, salmon oil, alfalfa, de-boned duck, de-boned salmon, sweet potatoes, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), coconut oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potassium chloride, pumpkin, carrots, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, broccoli, spinach, alfalfa sprouts, blackberries, squash, papayas, pomegranate, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, L-carnitine, vitamins (vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate , iron proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc oxide, manganese proteinate, copper sulphate, ferrous sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, selenium yeast), sodium chloride, taurine, New Zealand green mussels, yucca schidigera extract, chondroitin sulphate, dried rosemary, green tea extract, peppermint, parsley, rosehips, zedoary, dandelion, chamomile, ginger, fennel, tumeric, juniper berries, licorice, marigold extract, cardamom, cloves.

Here’s a link to the product on the Petcurean website: http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-senior

[Cyndi]

I still worry if I’m giving Bailey the right vitamins/minerals/supplements, etc. Check out See Spot Live Longer dinner mix. I use that often. All you do is add it to boneless meat. I also use, on occasion, Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin & Mineral Herbal Dog Supplement. Other than that, I add Coconut oil, some tinned sardines a couple times a week, a fresh, cage free egg every couple days and some Apple Cider Vinegar, that’s pretty much it. It really did seem overwhelming to me at first, so I know how you feel, but once you get going and get the hang of it, it’s really easy. I’m still learning and I read everything I can about raw feeding and all the threads and stuff. The different kinds of raw foods you can feed your dog, once he’s used to it, are endless…

Zach M ~ You’re very welcome! 🙂

[meky6ra]

Thank you! I’m scared to start feeding raw food, also :-p I worry about bacteria and getting the vitamins/minerals right. I would really love to make my dog’s food for her. I wouldn’t worry about the quality of the ingredients in her dogfood.

[Dane H]

Thanks for your response. I am weary he needs any more calcium with the amount of ground bone and raw bones he already consumes. I was under the impression he received a large amount of vitamins and trace minerals from the organ meat. The “Natural Mix” that I mix in with the other grinds has ground green tripe, beef heart, and beef liver in it. Am I wrong to assume that? It would be the same concept as Eskimo’s getting all the nutrients they need by eating seafood, lard, and organ meat and extracting the same minerals and vitamins as someone in an equatorial climate getting all the nutrients from a diet heavier on fruits and veggies. What do you think?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dane –

First off, if he’s drinking large amounts of water, urinating frequently and he won’t gain weight you need to get him to the vet to have some diagnostic tests performed. These are potential symptoms of kidney disease or diabetes. A dog that’s fed a raw diet shouldn’t drink much water at all – my two (large) dogs don’t even drink one bowl of water per day between the two of them. I’m not trying to scare you but if something is going on the sooner you catch it the better the prognosis will be.

Second, are you adding anything to the Blue Ridge Beef grinds? Unless they’ve recently come out with a new complete and balanced product that I’m not aware of, I thought they just make meat/organ/bone grinds? Meat/organ/bone “grinds” (as they’re referred to) are not a balanced diet. They’re meant to serve as as the base of a meal and they make things simpler by already having the muscle meat, organ and bone in the correct proportions. Supplements still must be added to make the diet complete. While it’s possible to balance a homemade diet using whole foods only, for simplicity’s sake and to get him on a balanced diet as soon as possible, I’d recommend adding a multivitamin (look for one with <10% DV calcium – one I frequently recommend is Twinlab Daily One Caps). I’d also add 1/2 C. of cooked and pureed vegetables (baby food veggies are fine if you don’t want to cook and puree them yourself) and feed a tin of sardines or salmon once or twice a week OR add a capsule or two of fish oil daily. These additions will provide him with the vitamins and minerals he needs, a little fiber and omega 3 fatty acids.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Case]

Hello,

Thank  you for taking the time to write to us.

Fresh fruits and vegetables can be stored and kept fresh once harvested with the use of cold storage. Fresh BC apples are available in grocery stores year round, this is possible because the apple suppliers are able to store the apples without freezing or processing them. Similarly, whole fruits and vegetables that supply important vitamins and nutrients in their natural form can be delivered to us fresh and preservative free year round.

The chickens, turkeys and ducks are housed in barns to protect them from the elements and predators and can roam free in this environment.

Fish can be harvested year round, ice fishing in the winter time.

I hope that I have been helpful and please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Kind regards,

 
Diana
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

You can certainly make your own supplements. I make my own for two reasons – it’s much cheaper than buying pre-mixed supplements and I can pick exactly which ingredients are in the supplement and in which proportions. I was running into a problem where every supplement I came across either had ingredients I didn’t want or didn’t have an ingredient I did want so I decided it would just make more sense to make my own. I purchase most of my ingredients in large quantities from Swanson Vitamins, Starwest Botanicals, Vitacost and Nature’s Farmacy. You shouldn’t have a problem finding most of the ingredients that are in Dinovite. My guess is that it’s likely the probiotics, enzymes and omega 3’s that help the most with the itching, so with whatever supplement you mix up I’d be sure to include those ingredients (at a minimum).

Here’s an article by Dr. Becker with some suggestions for itchy, smelly dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[T]

Let me just stick my standard cheer in here… upgrade the food and also use a fresher form than kibble, even if it’s only canned food. I’ve seen many people us Nature’s Variety Instinct, Merrick, and similar premium brands successfully. Also, use a good probiotic without a bunch of extra junk (Proviable is a decent choice) and a digestive enzyme for a couple of months. After a few weeks of adjusting to a new food, think about adding some fresh sources of fats and vitamins such as sardines, eggs and liver (start slow).

Itchy skin in a dog this young has a high likelihood of having to do, at least in part, with diet.

Good luck!

Tabitha
http://naturalalternativesvet.com

[Bobby dog]

Ah ha, maybe I don’t need those memory enhancing vitamins? 😉

[Bobby dog]

I believe his “theory” is that WB cat litter is chicken feed without vitamins. The parent company of WB Cat Litter, Kent, is the parent company of by Nature, Blue Seal Feeds, and several other companies one of which makes chicken feed. I won’t have anything to compare it to since I never used WB Cat Litter, I will just be evaluating the job it does, but I will post my review here! lol 😉 Also, I think WB Cat Litter is Catinfo’s favorite litter. Hey, if it is better than clumping litter I’ll switch over.

http://www.kentww.com/companies/

On another note, I just got my Chewy order in time for their afternoon snack. I ordered Wellness CH chicken and Pro Plan Finesse Chic & LIver (both on sale) because I know they definately like those. I took a chance on Newman’s Organic Beef case of 24 for $22.14. I only wish they sold the larger cans. It was a big hit with Archie, but he eats everything. I liked it because it did not have many ingredients. I will post how the other cats do with it later.

[Fabienne L]

Freeze-dried and Dehydrated pet food are NOT the same as raw non-hpp pet food. You may consider raw hpp, freeze-dried and dehydrated pet food as processed pet food. Yes, it is better than dry pet food, but it is still processed. Supplements should be added to this food! Recommended supplements include: vitamins, minerals, probiotics, milk thistle to name a few. Non HPP raw pet food is truly species appropriate pet food. Small Batch and Halshan are true species appropriate pet food. When comparing pet food you can see the differences in the ingredients. HPP raw and freeze-dried, such as Stella and Chewys and other pet food contain many added supplements in them. The list of ingredients is long! When you look at Small Batch the ingredients are simply simple, no added supplements. Pets gets the nutrition they need from the meat, organ meat and fruit and vegetable. I always suggest that pet owners (guardians) add probiotics and milk thistle to their non hpp raw pet food.

[DogFoodie]

I bought Swanson BioCor for myself, but they upset my digestive system, so I used them for one of my dogs and the difference for him was amazing!

They contain an enzyme that helps break down sugar from starches and veggies.

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-biocore-optimum-complete-ultimate-full-spectrum-enzymes-90-veg-caps

[DogFoodie]

Hypoallergenic is basically nomenclature. If a hypoallergenic food contains beef, and your dog is intolerant of our allergic to beef, he’ll still produce a response.

You wanted low residue. Did you identify your dog’s reaction to foods of varying fiber levels? The food you’re feeding now contains a lot of grain (filler ingredient), so it’s producing a larger stool volume.

I’d look for a grain free food with a higher percentage of meat protein and lower carbs along with lower fiber. You might look for Victor GF Ultra Pro, which meets those criteria and has a fiber level of about 2.5%.

I’d also consider adding digestive enzymes. One I’ve had great success with four one of my dogs is Swanson’s BioCore:https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-biocore-optimum-complete-ultimate-full-spectrum-enzymes-90-veg-caps. It helps him break down sugars from starches and vegetables better than any other enzyme I’ve used.

[Bobby dog]

Hi again Leslie R:
It was late last night when I posted my reply, “Some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins, and they are only for supplemental feeding.” I meant to write some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins and are labeled for intermittent feeding.

I have fed prescription diets to several pets in the past. I have no problem with some prescription diets; those diets were life savers and improved their health. My Vet worked with me and our goal was to rehab them so they could resume eating what they normally eat. I believe it is important to think outside of the box when feeding ill pets. If he is doing well on a prescription diet, you may want to consider continuing to feed him one.

Here’s are some links to companies that can help formulate homemade or prescription diets for your pet. I have not personally used their services or know anyone who has, but maybe you can find some other options that can help your pup:

You’ve Got Options

http://petdiets.com/?

https://secure.balanceit.com/

http://justfoodfordogs.com/

http://susanwynn.com/Home_Page.php

http://www.raynenutrition.com/default.asp

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-your-dog-doesnt-need-that-expensive-prescription-diet/?inf_contact_key=6679a6279cfecd30f1b6a7ddebba86b877e6fb7d4d6a17482cbaf5be1b62f1e6

[Bobby dog]

Hi Leslie R:
Canned food is high in moisture, maybe stews have a little more moisture than pate’? IDK Check out these brands: Wellness Core, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, By Nature 95%, Hound & Gatos, and EVO & EVO 95%. Some of these canned foods may not be supplemented with vitamins, they are only for supplemental feeding. I am not sure if they are what you are looking for, but they could be a place to start. Some canned foods that are low in carbs may be high in fat. You didn’t write what kind of health he is in, other than his diagnosis, so these may or may not be good for him depending on his current health condition.

Also, I read the other suggestions you received about making homemade food for him. You could always look into feeding both homemade and canned as well.

Here’s a DFA link about calculating carbs in dog food that may be helpful:
/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-carbohydrate-content/
I love JRT’s, good luck finding what he needs!

[pugmomsandy]

Like kibble, canned foods can be served as a meal. Canned food is less processed than kibble and the fact that it has alot of moisture is better than kibble. If you want to feed canned food the majority of the time, be sure to check that it is NOT “for supplemental or intermittent feeding only”. As far as feeding one can at a time or not, it depends on how many calories your dog needs per meal.

If the canned food says it’s for supplemental feeding only, then use it as a mixer with another “complete and balanced” food like most kibbles as it doesn’t have all the vitamins and minerals to make a complete diet.

[Tina]

I’ve read some brands of dog food that say for all life stages but the AAFCO label says for maintenance. ALS brands of dog food are very unclear to whom they are really for. Yes wolves out in the wild eat whatever they want at any are but dogs aren’t wolves. Dogs have been domesticated for over thousands of years and throughout that time as well as breeding dogs loose more of their natural instincts and become more reliant on different life stages of dog food. Without this dogs become sick easier, die at an early age and even loose their own natural ability to heal on their own. Dogs need us to supply them what they need to live daily including proper food, extra vitamins, exercise and lots of love.

[spaniel39]

I feed my baby (sophie the Komondor) 130pound
14 months old
Nutrisource large breed lamb
about 1.63 pound
as you get a 30 pound bag
I went through so many and this is perfect
Gets 5 stars dog advisor also
Lamb meal, peas, pea starch, pea flour, salmon meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potatoes, tomato pomace, natural turkey and chicken flavor, sunflower oil, potassium chloride, dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, selenium yeast), salt, choline chloride, taurine, vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, tryptophan, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, yucca schidigera extract, calcium iodate, rosemary extract, yeast culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtillis fermentation product.

[Jim H]

Hello everyone,
I’m new here and I need some advice. I want a food that has between 25-30% protein. My dogs are not herding sheep all day and do not need a grain-free, hi-protein food. I also want something easily digestible with little waste. I do not want corn or soy and I would like it be a lamb based food with whole eggs, fish oil, vitamins and chelated minerals. I used Canidae for years, but they changed the formula, so they’re out. I next found Dog Lovers Gold. It was a great food, but they changed their formula too and now they’re out. I searched the internet thoroughly and found Dr. Tim’s. My girls ( Great Pyrenees, Golden Retriever & Shih Tzu ) are doing great on Dr. Tim’s, shiny coats, firm low-odor stools, nice breath. It has everything I want except it’s chicken based instead of lamb. I can get Dr. Tim’s delivered for $1.52/ lb and this is the best “good food at a good price” that I have found. Does anyone have any suggestions for something similar, only with lamb?
Thanks
Jim

[Tina]

All-life-stage dog food is very unclear to the proper amount of vitamins that they may or may not have in each bag/brand. In fact, most all-life-stage dog foods are created for puppies and by the time the dog gets older, they are over-weight and sometimes very sick. Unless you plan on feeding some sort of Raw Diet to your puppy or a dehydrated dog food, if thats the case then all-life-stages is the way to go.

[Tina]

A growing puppy needs precise levels of essential nutrients to stay her healthiest. To meet the growth and development requirements of puppies, their bodies require a puppy food with increased amounts of energy, protein and calcium compared to adult dogs’ needs.

Association of Animal Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) statement on a dog food label verifies that the food provides complete and balanced nutrition for either:

puppies or kittens
pregnant or nursing pets
adult pets
all lifestages

Key points
If you see the words ” … for all lifestages” on a package, it means it’s a puppy or kitten food.

The early years

In the early stages of life, young pets need high levels of vitamins, minerals and other nutrients to ensure proper growth.

Therefore, a pet food that claims to be “complete and balanced for all lifestages” must contain nutrient levels that are suitable for growth. Are the nutrient levels in foods for growth too high for older pets? We believe they are.

Too high, too low

The “one size fits all” pet food philosophy may sound attractive, but it goes against everything Hill’s has learned in more than 60 years of clinical nutrition research. A food that’s appropriate for growth will contain levels of fat, sodium, protein and other nutrients that are too high for the older pet. Likewise, a food that contains reduced levels of nutrients for older pets may be inadequate for growing puppies and kittens.

All things to all pets

Today, many pet food manufacturers offer lifestage foods for pets. They often tout the benefits of their foods for puppies and kittens, adults or seniors and how these foods are perfectly balanced for each of these lifestages.

However, many of these same companies also offer brands of pet food that carry the claim “… complete and balanced nutrition for all lifestages”!

Are the companies that manufacture these products truly committed to the lifestage concept? The answer is obvious.

[“Blue”]

Hi Corey,
I can relate to your calorie content puzzlement, since I too had the same puzzlement when I started reading this website last summer. I was hoping the calorie content would be included when the Editor’s Choice ratings came online, but alas, it’s not. (Sorry if I seem disappointed, I am.)

The subject of this thread is about Quantity so I am not addressing the stomach issues, especially since I’ve been most curious about this for some time and get other opinions/thoughts on the subject.

How do you reconcile which food to buy? Find a food(s) Dr. Mike gives 3-5 stars, that you are comfortable buying, feed your dog and watch his weight. Adjust servings accordingly. It does require you use a measuring cup, not a plain scoop or empty soup can as I have done at times.

Food for thought: (pun intended)
Dog food is sold by the pound and fed by the cup. It’s hard to compare those 2 factors. And to complicate it further, the dog food mfg’rs don’t seem to agree on how much to feed, calorie wise.

DFA Calorie Calculator says my dog needs 1230 calories per day. On their websites, Fromm Adult Gold claims 408 calories/cup. Orijen Adult claims 478, so that extrapolates to Fromm recommending 1428 cals./day and Orijen recommending 1003 for my 55 lb. dog. That’s a huge difference between the two, with Fromm over ~20% and Orijen under ~20% of the DFA calculator.

To show the recommended feeding amounts another way,
Food—-Mfgr Cups—DFA Calc Cups
Fromm—3.5———-3.0
Orijen—-2.1———-2.5

You just have to go with the quantity that keeps appropriate weight on your dog. I like this chart for reference. http://media.marketwire.com/attachments/200802/MOD-402887_weight-chart1.jpg

If you want to compare prices of dog food, I think it’s better to compare cups fed per dollar rather than dollar per pound of the bag. Those looking to maximize economy might be more interested in a high calorie/low cost 3-star kibble over a lower calorie 5-star kibble, but it really isn’t that simple as you can see. (And I haven’t even mentioned protein, carbs, vitamins, etc.!) FWIW, I actually measured Fromm Adult Gold to be 4 cups per pound and Orijen Adult to be 3.2 cups per pound. Both claim 10% max moisture so Orijen would seem to be a much more dense food based on recommended serving size, but you may not be getting enough calories.

Sorry if this post rambled and got scattered, a million possibilities exist to feed you dog and I haven’t figured it out yet either, although “Blue” seems to be enjoying and doing well with the mix of 3-5 star rated foods I buy, per Dr. Mike’s rating system. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Christine –

I’m fairly certain that Royal Canin only makes the canned mousse for puppies. There’s no reason you can’t feed this to a senior dog. In general, most foods labeled for “seniors” are a marketing ploy and nothing more. Seniors don’t need a special food, a quality all life stages food works great and in fact better than most senior foods. Many companies, unfortunately, get it wrong when it comes to senior food formulation and reduce the protein levels when it’s well known that seniors actually require more protein than adults.

With this said, you definitely could find a better product than Royal Canin – imo. My recommendation would be to try a quality 4 or 5 star canned food and mix in a spoonful or two of Tripett (canned tripe). If this doesn’t work you could look into some other moist options such as a dehydrated or freeze-dried food (re-hydrate to canned food consistency) or Fresh Pet (refrigerated). If she seems to like “human” food you could also look into making a homemade diet if you think that’s something you could afford and have the time to do. If you want to make food completely from scratch I’d recommend checking out “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown and/or “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Karen Becker. There are also numerous pre-mixes available for making homemade diets. Generally, with pre-mixes you only need to add fresh meat and, if you want, other extras such as eggs, yogurt, etc. The mix will usually contain vegetables, fruits and vitamins/minerals. My favorite pre-mix is See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, I also like Urban Wolf. There are several out there though.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Raffaele C]

Both my dogs are on a raw food diet (Darwin’s to be exact) and I need to increase their calories by about 100 to get them to their ideal weight of 12 pounds. I could give them more of the raw food, but I am trying to avoid having to have open packages of raw meat in the fridge. Right now I just split one pack at each meal time between the two of them and then I can just through the pack away. Quick and Easy! To give them each 100 more calories I wouldn’t need a whole other pack so I would have to store part of it in the fridge.

Anyways, I was doing a ton of research and thought about just adding some homemade food items like eggs or spinach or quinoa to supplement them and get to 100 calories. I was also considering giving them a vegan kibble but Darwin’s diet is already well balanced with meat and vegetables so I believe they are getting all their necessary amino acids and vitamins. Can anyone help with some fresh suggestions to supplement their current diet? Or should I just increase their current raw diet?

[DogFoodie]

I didn’t know they were discontinuing the Mulligan Stew chicken. I have a big bag I’d give you if you were near me. I feed one of my dogs the lamb variety in his rotation and once ordered the chicken for something different. The chicken contains fish oil, which is one of my dog’s food intolerances.

I agree, I think that MS is a great product. It has a very unique ingredient panel.

Have you ever looked at Nature’s Logic? NL is a whole food ingredient kibbled diet with no added synthetic vitamins or minerals and nothing from China. In just looking at the ingredients in the chicken, it doesn’t contain barley; but, I didn’t check the other varieties.

[Mike M]

Things apparently going well with the diet so far, if poop status, etc. is any indicator.

Wally is a 17 pound 15 year old Chihuahua mix.

So far, daily, using 93% lean ground turkey mixed with Urban Wolf, 1 sardine packed in water, no salt added (Trader Joe’s), a little canned Alaskan pink salmon (TJ’s, no salt, no oil), Alaskan salmon fish oil and 1 probiotic capsule. Several pet vitamins per day; Puritan’s Pride … they have some calcium/phosphorous in the right balance but not a lot of other vitamins and minerals, which I know the Urban Wolf has … the pet vitamins are more of a crunchy treat.

Several times per week – 1/2 boiled egg, a small dollop of cooked yam (wondering if that is too much sugar though), 1 200 IU Vitamin E twice oer week (guesstimating) which I have read may need to be boosted because of the fish oil consumed. Thinking of adding the occasional well cooked/processed broccoli …..

Resisting adding other meats like beef and pork because of my own vegetarian leanings and the reasons for that but remain open to it. Understand the nutritional benefits of some of the animal organs like heart and liver but am not using those. Always researching …..

Always looking for input – thanks.

[DogFoodie]

I have Natural Planet Organics GF Turkey on deck to try for my fish intolerant pup, as it’s a fish free formula, as is Zignature Turkey.

Wellness Simple makes a Turkey & Potato, Whole Earth Farms has a GF Turkey. Nature’s Variety Instinct makes a LID that’s straight up Turkey and then they also offer Duck & Turkey in their regular Instinct line-up. Back to Basics also offers a GF Turkey. The Honest Kitchen offers Embark, which is their GF Turkey product offering. And Brothers Complete has a Turkey Meal & Egg formula.

As far as being China free, I’m not certain of that for any of those that I mention. I would feel comfortable using any of the products that I listed, but I am not particularly fearful of those companies who choose to add synthetic vitamins and minerals that use a premix sourced from China.

Edit: That word up there that always gets ********’d out, is the word that is synonymous with a male sibling, he’s not your sister, but he’s your brother. KWIM?

[Mike M]

At the risk of being a nube posting redundant questions that have been answered (I did do a search and didn’t find specifically what I needed), I am trying to find out if there is something — vitamins, minerals, protein — in liver that my dog needs that cannot be gotten from other sources because …. I do not want to feed my dog liver if I don’t “have to.”

I’ve done my research and will be making my own dog food with cooked ground turkey and canned unsalted Alaskan salmon as the main meats, with the occasional eggs and packed in water unsalted sardines, some added fish oil, a bit of calcium, yam/carrot/garbonzo beans, the occasional cooked/processed veggies, nutritional yeast, etc. Lucky dog.

I will be using the Urban Wolf mix and it recommends adding the liver powder to that, along with the meat but I haven’t been able to find out why I need the liver and/or if there is something else I use or can use that will provide what the liver does.

Thanks – Mike

[LexiDog]

W/D is a low fat glucose management dog food by SD that is supposed to be for diabetic dogs. The ingredients are: Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Caramel color, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C) , Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, L-Threonine, Beta-Carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Natural Flavors.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi cindy q,

I had to double check that because I refuse to use a food that has ANY ingredients from China. THK has a page that lists where all of their ingredients come from: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/the-benefits/our-ingredients

They have a table on the right hand side of the page that says “where our food is from.” If you click on Asia & Africa, you will see that nothing comes from China (see below, copied and pasted from website). Personally, I am ok with where all of these products come from.

Papaya: Our papaya is grown in plantations in Thailand. Papaya is a rich source of proteolytic enzymes. These are the chemicals that enable the digestion of protein.

Banana: Our bananas are from the Philippines. Bananas contain all 8 essential amino acids and are filled with vitamin B6, C, carotenoids, fiber, magnesium, potassium (electrolytes) and another good source of phytonutrients.

Organic Coconut: Our certified organic coconuts come from Thailand. Coconut is highly nutritious and rich in fiber, vitamins, and minerals. It also has many wonderful nutrition benefits including anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties.

Chicory: Our chicory is grown on the plains of India. It is a good source of vitamin C, vitamin B6, potassium and manganese.

Organic Basil: Our fragrant basil is from Egypt, and is now certified organic along with several of our other ingredients. Basil is high in vitamins and also possesses anti-bacterial properties.

Parsley: Our flat-leaf parsley is from Egypt. Parsley is high in vitamins, antioxidants and iron.

[Janie]

Dogs are meant to eat raw food. I write about it on my website and explain the salmonella scare and what is going on with china and their contaminated vitamins that are added to our dog food. Please check out essentiallydogs.com. You can type raw, salmonella, or FDA into the search bar. I also have an FDA video which explains the dog food contamination with melamine that is killing our dogs.

[Janie]

My biggest issue with dog food (most dry & canned), is the vitamin premix. If the ingredient label contains a list of vitamins & minerals, it is EXTREMELY likely that those vitamins are sourced from China. China is contaminating products with melamine which is why dogs are becoming ill and dying. It is NOT salmonella. Dog food manufacturers are not required to disclose the sources of ingredients. ONLY where the product is manufactured. I stick with a raw food diet. i wrote extensitely about these issues on my website essentiallydogs.com. You can type keywords on the website search bar. Raw, salmonella, and FDA are good keywords to search.

[DogFoodie]

I asked Blue Buffalo to tell me exactly from where do they source their vitamin / mineral premix; this was their response:

Hi Betsy,

Thank you for taking the time to contact BLUE. Our foods all are manufactured
here in the USA. Many of our ingredients, such as our grains and meats, come
from the USA except for our lamb and venison which can be free range from New
Zealand. Where possible our suppliers are instructed to source their ingredients
from the US. Where the ingredients are not readily available in the US, such as
many vitamins, minerals and nutriceuticals, our suppliers will only work with
reputable foreign companies, and subject all ingredients to rigorous quality
testing. We do not source any ingredients from China. All of our ingredients
are USDA approved and inspected.

I hope this helps!

Take care,

Tracy
Blue Buffalo Co.

I responded that no, that the response didn’t help and asked my question again.

Talk about spin. She tells me that when ingredients aren’t available in the U.S., their suppliers work with reputable foreign companies. But, she tells me that “we” don’t supply anything from China. She fails to tell me whether or not their suppliers procure vitamins / minerals from China. I’m sure they do, but it’s fun watching them try to make it looks as if they don’t.

[Gloraidy R]

I’m also looking for a free of synthetic vitamins and minerals, grain free/good for sensitive dogs to allergies, and i can make it into a rotational dry kibble diet(cans are too expensive to feed to large dogs and i dont have the fridge space for a raw/home made diet). I recently heard of different studies (done with humans, not dogs so it might/not apply) where the researchers compared the health of people who took synthetic vitamins from pills and those that took their vitamins from their diet(vegetables, fruits, meats ect.). They found that those that took synthetic vitamins had higher occurrences of cancer than those who ate their naturally occurring vitamins in foods. Here are two sources where you can get this info from: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/selenium-vitamin-e-supplements-increase-decrease-prostate-cancer-risk-201402287059 , http://www.cancer.org/healthy/eathealthygetactive/acsguidelinesonnutritionphysicalactivityforcancerprevention/acs-guidelines-on-nutrition-and-physical-activity-for-cancer-prevention-diet-cancer-questions
“Can nutritional supplements lower cancer risk?
There is strong evidence that a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and other plant-based foods may reduce the risk of cancer. But there is no proof at this time that supplements can reduce cancer risk. Some high-dose supplements may actually increase cancer risk.”

so please help me find one >.< for my very special adopted senor furbabies.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Gloraidy R.

[Susan]

I rescued my boy just over 1 year ago & he too has bowel, tummy & skin problems..For some reason corn must bind them more, Patch is on vet prescrition Eukanuba Intestinal since last August when vets said he has IBD, it has corn also, I found the Eukanuba heaps better then Hills & Royal Canin … His skin stopped being itchy, no more diarrhea, the Hills & Royal Canin never helped him…This Janurary I’ve been slowing adding different foods & different kibbles but so slowly but Ive been cooking the chicken breast boiling it cause of the fat.. also I found that the Nutro natural choice & Holistic Select have been good kibbles with his diarrhea…he also gulps, so Im too scared to give any bones, I dont want to push my luck as he’s pretty stable at the moment, I also have read that raw & kibble is no good but if you give at different times it should be OK, I give cooked for breakfast then do kibble for lunch & dinner, that way he’s getting all his vitamins from his kibbles .. Last year my vet said NO to raw especially when I was giving chicken necks, he said to me, they’re are just bones & fat would you eat bones & fat, I said no….so now I cook chicken breast, pumkin & freeze cause 2 months ago I found out that Patch has Pancreatitis poor thing, last year vets were trying this kibble trying that kibble & all along he needed a low fat kibble we thought it was the fiber being to high but it was the fat % that was too high…
I think for some reason they seem more special when they have been rescued, they have had it tough & are survivors…You’ll work it all out but it does become confusing…. just stay away from the carbohydrates with his skin problems, no potatos or sweet potatos in kibbles..

[Wanda F]

Thanks for your great tips! I’ve checked into Darwin’s and a afew others but as much as I like Brewer, I don’t know if his monthly food bill should exceed the monthly payment on a new Lexus. That being said, I’d still like the best for him and feel I could do raw from my kitchen and fill in with Nutrisca or Orijen( for vitamins, minerals and probiotics) but in some of the “expert research” I’ve found they say feeding both is not beneficial. Something about time in digestion being different. Sometimes all of this information is overwhelming..I grew up with farm dogs and fed them whatever; they lived long and don’t remember them ever being sick. Are all of these health issues, with our canine friends, recent? Both of my last 2 dogs have had very sensitive digestive systems and allergies.

[theBCnut]

Blue Buffalo has their Life Source Bits, which are their heat sensitive vitamins and such, seperate from the regular kibble, which makes it very easy for picky dogs to sort and not get proper nutrition. They also settle in the bag so the amount of LSB at the top of the bag is different than at the bottom of the bag.

There have been a lot of complaints about BB lately, and when people contact them, they always say they haven’t received any complaints. I won’t buy from them.

[Tina]

How do we know that Blue Buffalo is outsourcing to multiple factories? Wellness gets their vitamins from china, I know this because called and asked.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Rudy –

I wouldn’t recommend Blue Buffalo products for a large breed puppy. Proper calcium levels are crucial during the first 8 months or so in order to minimize the chances of developmental orthopedic disease and Blue won’t disclose their calcium levels.

There’s a large breed puppy forum here. There’s a list of appropriate 4 and 5 star foods somewhere in that forum, I’m sure there’s something you could find at Petsmart.

I wouldn’t recommend adding vitamins to an already balanced food unless done so at the recommendation of a veterinarian. However, there some nutraceuticals that can be beneficial – such as probiotics, enzymes, omega 3’s, wholefood/superfoods (i.e. kelp, spirulina, bee pollen, etc.), coconut oil, glandular supplements, garlic, etc. I like to keep several of these types of supplements on hand and rotate around.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[rudy g]

Thx for the information. My GSD (Khaleesi) is 1 year and 1 month old. My timber wolf shephard is 7 weeks old. What are your thought on Blue wilderness for large breed pups?

What food do yall recommend for both?

The pup came with Diamond for large breed puppies. Is it better?

I also only have a Petsmart in town….what do yall recommend from there?

Any vitamins?

thx.

[rudy g]

Thx for the information. No veggies. My GSD (Khaleesi) is 1 year and 1 month old. My timber wolf shephard is 7 weeks old. You mentioned Blue is not the food you recommend.

What food do yall recommend for both?

The pup came with Diamond for large breed puppies. Is it better?

I also only have a Petsmart in town….what do yall recommend from there?

Any vitamins?

thx.

[LexiDog]

I am curious as to why everyone seems to love Dr. Tim’s. Is it the price point? I am not sure. When reading the ingredients for their Kinesis GF formula, it seems to have a lot of ingredients that I would not want to give to my dog. Most of the ingredients are dried. It has beet pulp, salt and canola oil. It has a very long list of added vitamins and minerals at the bottom…I understand that some vitamins and minerals have to be added to make a complete and balanced diet…but it just seems like this food has more supplements added to it than good ingredients in the food with the natural occurring vitamins and minerals.

I haven’t fed my dog this brand but don’t really see why I would want to. I have seen people suggest this food to others as a good quality dog food and can’t figure out why.
****this is NOT an attack on Dr. Tim’s****I just want to know why it is so highly recommended. Am I missing something?

I feed my girl Orijen, ACANA, Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I know that a rotational diet is good for dogs so I have been trying to find another brand that I think is as good as Orijen.

What are your thoughts?

[Suburban Gal]

As for the ingredients of Greenies being bad for dogs, just took at the ingredients for their competitors:

Nutri Dent dental chews:
Wheat Starch, Glycerin, Powdered Cellulose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Chlorophyll, Parsley & Soy Flour. Vitamins: Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B-6, Folic Acid, Vitamin A. Vitamin E, Biotin, Choline, Inositol & PABA. Minerals: Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Copper Oxide, Manganese Oxide & Sodium Molybdate. Omega Fatty Acids: Omega-3 Fatty Acid & Omega-6 Fatty Acid.

Milk Bone brushing chews:
Rice, Modified Food Starch, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Water, Propylene Glycol, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Bone Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Gelatin, Animal Digest, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Sorbate (Used As A Preservative), Smoke Flavor, Titanium Dioxide (Color), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Yellow 6, Yellow 5, BHA (Used As A Preservative).

If you look closely enough, some of the same ingredients in Greenies are ALSO used in that of their competitor’s dental chews.

I took the liberty of checking the ingredients of Zuke’s Z-Bones. While the ingredients looked a lot better than the ingredients in Greenies, Nutri Dent and the like, I still think something like Zinc Propionate can’t be very good. Heck, I don’t even know what that is! (Would someone care to enlighten me?)

To be quite honest, it’s better to give your dog something than nothing at all and, as expensive as dental chews are, at least someone is making a good effort even if it’s not as good as Zuke’s Z-Bones.

I can’t wait for Zuke’s Z-Bones to receive the VOHC® Seal of Acceptance. IMHO, that means a little more to me as a pet owner.

[Charlotte M]

I would like to nominate Nature’s Logic (Chicken & Sweet Potato) dry dog food. All vitamins come from food ingredients rather than vitamin additives. Is there a reason this brand didn’t make the list? Also curious about Merrick and comments on this brand. Please advise.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Jakes mom:
It’s an awsome download you can find on Steve Brown’s website. I do want to purchase his book, but as you read above I probably will never go completely raw for various reasons. I downloaded his PDF a while ago and it explains very easily how to enhance any kibble (from Ol’ Roy to 5 stars) with vitamins through whole foods you can buy from the grocery store. I highly recommend it for $2.95, it is more than worth it! Here’s the link:

http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

[Barbara F]

Please check out Natures Farmacy. My dog was having stomach issues. I decided to try probiotics before going to the vet. Well, for less than a vet visit I ordered Probiotic Max 1 lb size with shipping. It has worked wonders on my dogs. It has enzymes in it too. I called first and they have wonderful customer service. They sell vitamins and all kinds of animal products. My dogs love the taste. Im buying the 3 lb next!

[DogFoodie]

I love them both. The kibble sizes are very similar, both tiny, perfect for everything from toy breeds on up. I use the CC Lamb & Pearl Millet and Chicken & Pearl Millet; and all of the Nature’s Logic products. I like that both use gluten free pseudo grains and choose both over grain free products that contain legumes. I’m OK with peas, but try not to over do them. My sensitive pup cannot do chickpeas or lentils. CC is a great more limited ingredient product. I love that NL is a whole food product with no added synthetic vitamins or minerals.

All that said, I can now no longer use either for my sensitive dog who cannot do fish, fish meal or fish oil and apparently, his newest sensitivity, garlic, which is in the CC formulas I was using. NL contains sardine meal. I’ll tell you, is very hard to find a fish free food – CC is fish free. I’ll continue to use both for my dog with no food intolerance issues. The fact that my dog can no longer eat either, in no way diminishes my opinion of either.