[rdpalmer]

We have a brother and sister team of year old pups now. They are Blue Heeler/Australian Shepard mix. Mika (the female) has had 3 epileptic seizures (petit mal). We rushed her to the vet and had the tests done and originally thought it was hypoglycemia. But this last episode we were able to eliminate that and zero in on epilepsy. Moki (the male) walks around stiff….as if he’s stove up. They just turned 1 year last month. We are beginning to wonder if the dog food might be an issue. We are currently feeding them Purina Healthy Morsels. Could these issues be from food allergies? I hate the thought of having the drug Mika for the rest of her life to control the epilepsy. I’m already giving them Pro-Sense glucosamine and daily vitamins. Anyone have any ideas?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

You only want to use one calcium supplement. You can stick with one or rotate every so often. I’ve actually never used bone meal as a calcium source, but the thing to keep in mind if you want to use bone meal is that it contains both calcium AND phosphorus so you’ll have to add more bone meal than you would a pure calcium supplement (such as calcium citrate) to get the ratio in balance. Most bone meal has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio but it can vary by brand. Dr. Pitcairn’s book “Natural Health for Dogs and Cats” contains a guide guide for balancing recipes with bone meal, I’m sure there are a lot of websites out there that explain it as well. If you’re using a pure calcium supplement, the general rule is about 800 mg. per 1 lb. muscle meat and 1,000 mg. per 1 lb. organ meat – as long as you follow that general rule the end result should be balanced. Sometimes slightly more or less can be used depending on the type of meat – i.e.) fattier meats will be lower in phosphorus and thus require less calcium than leaner meats. In my boneless beef recipe above, after the nutrient analysis I found that I only needed 1,400 mg. calcium to get the ratio where I wanted it. The tripe didn’t require any calcium as tripe naturally has a balanced C:P ratio, 85% lean is a little fattier and contains less phosphorus than extra lean meat and my offal blend contains trachea and gullet which only have slightly more phosphorus than calcium. There really wasn’t any reason behind my choosing calcium citrate other than it was available in powder form – I prefer to use powdered supplements when possible. You could certainly use another calcium supplement such as eggshell calcium, calcium lactate, etc. Just make sure the supplement contains ONLY calcium – some add other vitamins and minerals which, if not accounted for, could over-supplement your dog’s meal. I’ve heard that certain calcium supplements are better assimilated than others, but I really wouldn’t worry too much about what type you’re using as long as you’re getting the amount right.

[InkedMarie]

Oh, one other question: for t least the time being, two of mine will be getting Hare Today grinds for breakfast and kibble for the second meal. For however long I do this, do they need fruits and veggies or does the kibble take care of the vitamins and minerals?

[Edamse]

Hi, I made my own dog food, with chicken, mince,oats, vegies, Fish oil. eggs, vitamins etc. But how much of that do I feed daily to a Jack Russel size dog. He is 13 and not very active, never has been, and 7.4 kilo. perfect wait according to the vet. I don’t want to give him to much.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI kmarron –

Have you considered a pre-mix? If you use a pre-mix you just add meat and water, all the vitamins and minerals are in the pre-mix so you don’t have to worry about whether the diet is balanced. There are many pre-mixes available with low glycemic ingredients. And definitely check out the site Marie posted a link to – that site is a wonderful resource for everything dog related.

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[rockpinefarm]

My chihuahua was also diagnosed with heart disease (an enlarged heart) 1.5 years ago. It has been a nonstop research project on what to feed her. My vet recommended Canidae’s Lamb and Rice because of the low sodium (.17%). Seriously, I have done weeks of research. She was on Wellness canned until I found a 1.5″ wood splinter in the Turkey n’ Duck. I only found it because I cut up the meat chunks into smaller pieces. A month earlier I found 2 much smaller pieces but I thought they may be roots of a vegetable. However, I did keep all the wood splinters and called Wellness. They confirmed that it was a wood splinter but felt it was an isolated incident! Anyway, I think the healthiest food would be to fix your own by purchasing or growing your own meat. Do you have any access to some local beef, chicken, buffalo or venison? Then just add The Missing Link plus any other vitamins/minerals that she needs. I began going to Woody’s Pet Food Deli in St. Paul, MN where they make raw and cooked food right there. They are also the ones that informed me that lamb meat can cause inflammation because it is considered a “hot” meat by the old eastern ways. So, now I am seriously considering making my own dog food. My chihuahua is also on enalapril, furomeside(lasix) and about 9 months ago I started her on Vetmedin…which has made her back to her puppy energy level. I get it through Vets First Choice because it is half the price of my vet! Good luck with your little sweetheart! I will keep posting as we progress on this food search!

[Mom2Cavs]

While Natural Balance does use Diamond for one of their manufacturers (and I won’t feed a Diamond food), they might have a food that fits your bill in their LID food, Potato and Duck. They have it in dry and canned form and even biscuit treats. And since you’re already using Blue, have you considered trying their Turkey and Potato grain free Basics food? I also want to mention that I’m using Acana Duck currently and it seems to be working with my sensitive stomach dogs. It does contain potato and while it has your normal vitamins included it doesn’t have many ingredients and is considered hypoallergenic. Pinnacle is another brand that has a Turkey and Potato food that might be worth checking out. Wellness also has Simple Solutions, which is their hypoallergenic food and I believe it may have a Duck formula. I hope this helps some.

[Wellington]

After months of trial and error, our 7-year-old female Boston terrier is finally settled down with a mixture diet of Blue Buffalo’s wild mixture of grilled chicken and salmon (canned) and boiled fresh potatos. I mash and mix them, then warm the mixture in the microwave and serve.

We would like to not have to cook potatoes two or three times a week, and have tried different no-grain dry foods. But, so far all have resulted in either allergic reaction (scratching) or a return to the watery stools she had before we got her stabilized on the current diet.

Yes, I know–if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. However, I would like to experiment with a dry food that contains the basics of potatos and some kind of fowl such as chicken, turkey, duck,etc.

If it doesn’t work, we go back to boiling potatos.

If you know of a product that tends to be pure without a whole lot of additives such as blueberries, cranberries and multi-vitamins, please let us know. We would be most grateful for any recommendations.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, it does contain corn.

Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier 28 Formula

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat, Chicken, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Egg Powder, Barley, Natural Chicken Flavor, Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Anchovy Oil, Dried Brewers Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Soya Oil, Fructo-oligosaccharides, Salmon Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Choline Chloride, Dried Brewers Yeast Extract (source of Mannan-oligosaccharides) , Taurine*, Vitamins [DL-Alpha Tocopherol (source of Vitamin E), Inositol, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C*), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Magnesium Oxide, Borage Oil, Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Glucosamine Hydrochloride*, L-Carnitine*, DL-Methionine, Marigold Extract (Calendula officinalis L.), Tea (Green Tea Extract), Chondroitin Sulfate*, preserved with Natural Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract

Brewer’s Rice: Leftover debris from human-food production, no nutritional value.

Corn Gluten Meal: 85% of corn in the US is genetically modified, according to the NCAP corn gluten meal is “a by-product of processing corn to make corn starch and corn syrup.”; gluten is cheap and of low bioavailability and used to falsely boost the protein content of a food; corn is also highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.

Natural Chicken Flavor: Source of MSG

Dried Beet Pulp: 95% of sugar beets grown in the US are Monsanto’s genetically-modified variety.

Dried Brewer’s Yeast: Potential source of MSG.

Soya Oil: 93% of soy is genetically modified.

And look at that huge long list of synthetic vitamins and minerals at the end – they need to add all those because the main ingredients are of little to no nutritional value.

If you can afford this, you can afford much better for your dog. You’re paying a premium price for a mediocre food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

doggiedog –

No single food meets all of a living thing’s needs and whole food derived nutrients are far superior to synthetically added vitamins and minerals. I “supplement” my dogs’ food – but not with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They get super foods such as spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen; healthy fats such as fish oil, coconut oil, etc.; foods rich in enzymes and probiotics; healthy herbs like turmeric and garlic; etc. What I feed my dogs is so naturally rich in vitamins and minerals that I don’t need to add anything synthetic. I don’t trust a dog food company to add everything needed to keep my dogs’ immune systems in peak condition – because there is no dog food that does this. Chemically synthesized vitamins and minerals are more likely to be tainted, pose a greater risk for overdose and aren’t utilized as efficiently by the body – in whole foods, nutrients work synergistically with hundreds of other compounds and many of these compounds have different forms in nature and can only be found in whole foods. Synthetic supplements have been linked to increased risk of cancer and increases in lifestyle diseases in people – why wouldn’t it be the same for our pets? Many medical organizations advise against the consumption of synthetic vitamins and minerals for humans. This is why foods should be rotated so a dog isn’t overexposed to anything. Your statement that different breeds need different foods isn’t accurate – or at least shouldn’t be accurate if a dog is eating an appropriate food. “a bulldog, which is prone to digestion issue, excessive gas, and weight gain” – probiotics and enzymes address digestive issues and gas, if a dog were eating a fresh species-appropriate diet rich in natural enzymes and probiotics this wouldn’t be an issue; dogs that are overweight don’t need a special food, they need their portion size (calories) reduced, weight loss is based on calories in and calories out not fat content or caloric-density of a food. “Poodle, which is prone to cataracts, dementia, and has a fully curly coat” – again, if eating a high quality species-appropriate foods the chances of any of these “tendencies” causing an issue would be greatly reduced. High quality foods have balanced ratios of quality omega 3 and 6 fatty acids for the coat health and whole food antioxidants help with health issues such as cataracts and dementia. Low-grade foods like RC, SD, Purina, etc. have to add supplements because their base ingredients are so low quality and nutritionally devoid. Luckily for these companies there are tons of people out there like you and veggienut that actually believe synthetically supplemented corn puffs with a picture of your breed on your bag are the best thing to feed.

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, I believe specific dog breeds need certain ingredients in their diet and a regular adult dog food would not have the specific ingredients of nutrient and vitamins for a Yorkshire Terrier.

[DogFoodie]

I’m on a rotation of Nature’s Logic right now and love it. The kibble size is very small not much bigger than Canine Caviar, which I think of as tiny. If you’re interested in a natural food with quality ingredients and whole food vitamins and minerals, check out Nature’s Logic.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My vitamin mineral supplement would be fine. I order all the ingredients from Swanson Vitamins. For a small dog I’d say 1/2 tsp per day would be adequate. I use Carlson Brand cod liver oil, it has a lower vitamin a content than other brands (most brands have excessive vitamin a) and I also feel it’s higher quality than most other brands – you could give about 1/4 tsp. a couple times a week (there would be no need to add krill oil on these days as the cod liver oil has omega 3’s) for his vitamon d.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom20 –

I just checked out Big Country Raw’s website – I’m jealous that you can get this food, the price is great! $2.50/lb. for pre-mixed food is very reasonable. I’m not too far from some of the retailers (I’m on the Canadian border) unfortunately I think a law was passed recently making it illegal to transport pet food across the border.

I can’t find a statement of nutritional adequacy on the website and it does appear there are a few things missing that you will need to supplement to make the food balanced. First of all, yes you will want to add omega 3’s as there aren’t any added to the food. Follow the dosage chart I posted previously. Second, after reading the ingredients for each of their foods I can tell you that there are inadequate levels of vitamin e and vitamin d. Vitamin e is difficult to supply in adequate quantities through food alone and therefore should be supplemented. It will be especially critical that you supplement with vitamin e once you start adding omega 3’s as consumption of omega 3’s increases the the fat soluble antioxidant requirement. As a general rule supplement about 50 I.U. vitamin e per 20 lbs. If you get capsules with a high dosage (most come in 200 IU or 400 IU) you can just give one whole capsule 2-3 times per week. For the vitamin d, there is some vitamin d in beef liver (about 50 IU per 4 oz.), but not all of the formulas contain beef liver and even for the formulas that do, I doubt that there is enough to fulfill vitamin d requirements. Vitamin d can be added in supplement form or (more preferably) in whole food form. Some foods that are rich in vitamin d: cod liver oil (~400 IU per tsp.), cage free eggs (~30-50 IU per egg), Kefir (~100 IU per cup), oily fish (amount of vitamin d present varies on the type of fish but sardines, mackerel and salmon are generally considered good sources), some varieties of plain yogurt and cottage cheese are supplemented with vitamin d (check the label). Your dog should be getting about 200 IU vitamin D per pound of food consumed. Also, rotate between all their protein sources – don’t rely on one – this will provide him with the greatest balance. You may also want to consider adding another whole food supplement, I see kelp is is added to a few of the varieties. Kelp is great and supplies a lot of trace nutrients but the more variety the better, especially when a dog is deriving all of their nutrition from whole foods and not relying on synthetically added vitamins and minerals. My dogs get kelp and they also get things like spirulina, alfalfa, wheat grass, bee pollen, chlorella, etc. I switch up their supplements frequently. It says they offer a vitamin/mineral supplement but it doesn’t list the ingredients, you could check that out.

Yes, RMB’s are a wonderful source of glucosamine and chondroitin. Because he’s young and he’s a small breed not prone to joint issues, RMB’s should provide all the joint support he needs for now. I wouldn’t worry about a joint supplement until he’s a senior.

[Anonymous]

I am by no means a canine nutritionist, merely someone who has put a bit of thought into what I feed mine. My knowledge is not specific to the medical condition and sensitivity of your dog. The guidelines that I found with a superficial online search for cardiac diet were:
– Provide your pet a high-quality natural meat-based diet with at least 25-30% protein (DM basis)
– Make sure your pet LIKES the food so that (s)he consumes enough calories to maintain BMI
– Mild to moderate sodium restriction (severe restriction in advanced cases)
– Supplements: omega 3 fatty acids, taurine, carnitine, B vitamins and Magnesium.
http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/diet-tips-pet-heart-disease-32.htm

I am going to assume that you are looking for a dry kibble based on your previous food choice. I feel that the top of the line dry kibble RIGHT NOW is Orijen. However, it does retail for $80/35lb. As I feed about 400 lb of dog, the budgetary compromise at my house is Merrick Grain Free at roughly $50/35lb.

Prior to Merrick Grain Free, I was feeding Taste of the Wild, but have decided that I prefer Merrick for not entirely nutrition-based reasons. While the protein content is slightly higher and the starch from sweet potato (rather than white), they are reasonably equivalent foods (in nutrition and price). However, Merrick uses all US-sourced ingredients (nothing from China). This is a political issue and safety concern of mine. The larger scale pet recall in 2007 due to melamine contamination was traced to Chinese product, and the more recent Petco recall of stainless steel bowls manufactured with radioactive Cobalt-60 scrap was most likely (while never publicly disclosed) of Chinese origin. Merrick also happens to be manufactured in Texas, where I live. Those variables may not factor into your decision at all, but are important to me.

I could not find a cardiac specific diet offered by Hill’s in their Science Diet or Prescription Diet lines and based my quick comparison on the Adult Advanced Fitness formula. The Advanced Mobility contained more Omega 3’s and Magnesium, but was lower in protein and higher in sodium. Orijen appears to be the best choice, but may not be an option for you dependent on your personal budget. Merrick Grain Free is my compromise, but is based on a few tertiary considerations that may not matter to you. I will be interested to hear what other posters have to contribute. (The following information was retrieved from those companies’ official website product pages and is as vague or detailed as they provided.) The summary comparison is this:

Hill’s Merrick Orijen
Protein 24.2 38 38
Fat 16.4 17 17
Carbohydrate 51.5 ? 25
Sodium 0.32 ? 0.4
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.67 0.4 1.1
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.33 4.8 3.0
Taurine (yes) ? 0.35
Carnitine ? ? ?
B Vitamins
B1 – Thiamine (yes) (yes) 0.9 mg/kg or 50 mg/kg?
B2 – Riboflavin ? (yes) 45 mg/kg
B3 – Niacin (yes) (yes) 450 mg/kg
B5 – Pantothenic Acid ? (yes) 50 mg/kg
B6 – Pyridoxine ? (yes) 38 mg/kg
B7 – Biotin ? (yes) 1 mg/kg
B9 – Folic Acid (yes) (yes) 5.2 mg/kg
B12 – Cobalamins (yes) (yes) 50 mg/kg
Magnesium 0.099 ? 0.1

Since the foods that I mentioned are simply those that I am familiar with and not anything that I originally researched with cardiac issues in mind, I would recommend that you use this as a springboard for your own research. Maybe there is a better option in Innova EVO, Artemis, etc. Finish out a chart similar to that above on each of the brands that this website lists as top-tier choices. Feel free to call companies like Merrick or Hill’s to ask about specific quantities of items on their ingredients list, but not in their analysis (like B vitamins).

You might also want to consult with a veterinarian that specializes in cardiac issues regarding dietary recommendations and possible supplements. Maybe it is more cost-effective or bioavailable to top-dress your pets dinner with certain vitamins (L-carnitine perhaps). As wonderful as your veterinarian my be, my experience is that the time constraints of their day-to-day rigamarole does not allow time for general practitioners to be current and thorough on more specific issues. Reading journal articles falls to the wayside. Specialist consultation and personal research are important any time you have a specific veterinary/medical diagnosis of concern. Your vet has to have a working knowledge of EVERYTHING. You can concentrate on the single issue that is of prominent importance for your pet.

Good Luck

[soho]

Hi lovelibby,

Hyperlipidemia can be caused by badly controlled Diabetes. It can also be caused by other things.
The first thing I would do if I were you is try to tightly control my dog’s diabetes.

I would fast him or her for 24 hours while I figured out what dose of long acting insulin such as Lantus, Ultralente or Levemir controlled his basal levels of glucose. The basal level of glucose is what the liver constantly produces throughout the day and has nothing to do with meals. You might have to do the fast more than once (with plenty of days in between) until you calculate the correct dosage of long acting insulin. Then you can calculate the mealtime dose of rapid acting insulin such as Novolog, Humalog or Apidra. You would start with a very low dose and slowly increase the dosage until you find the dose of rapid acting insulin that adequately controls the glucose from your dog’s meals.

The beauty of a two insulin regimen is your dogs meals are not tied to any particular time of day and can vary in size. You can give the dose of rapid acting insulin immediately after a meal this way you give the correct dose of insulin for the amount of food your dog actually eats with no worries if he doesn’t finish his whole meal.

You must test your dog’s blood glucose levels a lot in the beginning while you figure everything out!!! I would test upon arising, right before meals, 2 hours after each meal and at bedtime.

The regimen I outlined is not a simple one but it can be done with the help of the right healthcare professional and I believe it pays off in the long run with a happier and healthier dog.

I would never feed my dog Hills W/D. Here are the ingredients:

Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Caramel (color), Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C) , Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols added to retain freshness, Citric Acid added to retain freshness, L-Threonine, Beta-Carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Rosemary Extract.

Dog’s with diabetes are still dogs. They still need a lot of protein. Fat should vary with the individual dog’s health, issues, diseases, etc. The hills W/D diet in my opinion is not fit for any dog to eat. While hills tries to focus on the dog’s diabetes , they completely fail to meet the nutritional needs of ANY canine. Hills addresses the dogs diabetes with high fiber (29.5%), high carbohydrates (51%) , low fat (8.7%) and low protein (18.7%).

As far as diet goes I discuss this in earlier posts in this topic.

[Roobee]

So I’m a soon to be 16 YO pomeranian who has lived a good life. I was brought up on kibbles but then a few years back got tired of them so I started eating Avoderm canned regularly, while snacking on kibbles. About 6 months ago I started to dislike Avoderm so I was eating a variety of other canned foods. Even with that though, they were trying a number of different labels and 75% of them I wouldn’t touch.

Now unfortunately I don’t seem to like any of them so my parents started cooking various dishes. Even with that though I may like what they give me but only for a day . . . if that. They have tried both chicken and turkey, boiled, baked, or fried, mixed with any of potatoes, brown rice, green beans, peas, carrots, and oatmeal. They can’t seem to figure out what I like or need.

So the last couple days it has just been straight turkey or chicken with a little greek yogurt in the morning. My dad fried me up some chicken liver in olive oil the other day and I LOVED that but I know I shouldn’t eat too much of that. Unfortunately once he tried mixing it in with some white rice and green beans I wouldn’t touch it. I know they have looked at some of the freeze dried raw but at $4/day seems pricey for a lil ol’ gal like me and there is no guarantee I’ll even eat it. I know they have also ordered some liquid vitamins to help provide some needed vitamins. They are trying really hard but running out of ideas.

What else can they do to give me what I need?

[Hound Dog Mom]

BTW – was doing more browsing last night and came across this on the same site which may also be of interest:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps

Contains 15 strains of soil-derived microorganisms, 5 enzymes, whole foods and a sea water-derived trace nutrient complex – only $9.99 for 90 capsules.

[Hound Dog Mom]

On the topic of probiotics. Was just looking through some supplements and came across this: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps . It’s a 15-strain probiotic with pre-biotics marketed for humans. I know Mercola’s probiotic is considered by many to be the gold standard – this has one more strain and is a whole lot cheaper. $0.12 per dose for a large dog versus $0.90 per dose for a large dog of the Mercola. I personally haven’t tried it out (yet, I might) but it would be worth a try for those that are more budget conscious.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jnite –

I wouldn’t feed this food for a few reasons…

1) Supposedly this food contains nothing but meat and bone (with added vitamins and minerals). Therefore, it should have a very high protein content, moderate fat content and extremely low carbohydrate content. When I convert the guaranteed analysis to a dry matter basis I get that the min. protein is 29% and the min. fat is 26% (very very low protein for a food that is supposedly all meat). Assuming that the ash content is 8%, if I calculate the carbohydrate content (using the dry matter percentages: 100% – 29% protein – 26% fat – 8% ash) it comes up to 37%. Well there are no ingredients in the food that contain carbohydrates so there’s no way the food can be 37% carbohydrates (they actually state on their website “zero carbs”). So how can this be? How can a food with “zero carbs” be so low in protein? This leads me to believe the actual fat content is MUCH higher than the stated min. of 26% (and this is where that extra 37% of “assumed” carbohydrates is coming from). When you run into a situation like this where the fat content is so high, the company is likely using low quality fatty cuts of meat. The reason I say the missing percentages should be attributed to excess fat is because if it were coming from protein, the company would want to advertise that and would state a higher min. for the protein percentage.

2) The food contains menadione.

3) I personally wouldn’t feed a pasteurized “raw” food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Stewiesmom1 –

If you want to continue with commercial food I’d recommend mixing in some Tripett. Most dogs can’t resist green tripe. Just mash some up with warm water to make a “gravy” and make sure all the kibble is coated.

Homemade is great for picky eaters too and is – imo – the healthiest way to feed a dog. Pre-made raw/cooked foods are very cost prohibitive and making everything from scratch is much cheaper (and higher quality). It’s not rocket science to formulate a balanced diet, but it does take a little research. If you check out the recommended menus on the raw food topic area you can see what I feed my dogs. Dogaware.com is a great resource. Dr. Becker has a great book called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” and Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” is a great read as well – both books include AAFCO compliant recipes. There are also pre-mixes (such as THK’s Preference, Sojo’s, Birkdale, Urban Wolf, etc.) that contain all the vegetables, fruits and vitamins your dog needs and all you have to add it fresh raw or cooked meat.

[Stewiesmom1]

Hello, I am new to this site and I am trying to find some recommendations on what I could feed a very picky eater. First I would like to give a little background. I started fostering him about 9 months ago. We think is about 2 yrs. old and a Spitz Breed. He looks just like the pictures I have seen online with a tail like a fox. When I got him he had been hit by a car and was thought to have a fracture that would heal. However about 2 month’s he still could not use his leg. I had to really be proactive to get them to have another Vet. to look at him and they found his leg was completely broken at the elbow. It was decided to have his front leg amputated. He’s has healed really good and is doing great with only 3 legs.

Now I need some help getting him to eat dog food. During his recovery I knew he had to eat and have protein to heal so we “doctored” up his food by adding baby food (suggested by the vet) he really didn’t like it much. Sometimes he will eat canned food, but I have not had any luck with any dry food. I don’t know what he was feed during the first 2 years, but I wouldn’t think they took good care of him since they pushed him from the car in traffic and someone hit him and the owners kept going.

I was thinking about making my own food, but concerned I will not get enough vitamins & minerals correctly. I am concerned that he gets the right vitamins & minerals to help his other 3 legs be strong and I need to kept his weight under control.

I have looked at a few places that sell homemade food, but $107.00 dollars for 21 days feeding is a bit more that I can afford. Can anyone give me some ideas as to my choices or cost in making his food or where to buy homemade food at a decent price?

Thanks so much and I look forward to your comments.

[Hound Dog Mom]

DoggieDoc22 –

“One last thing, don’t buy into the marketing machine and get all hung up on ingredients. Your dog needs nutrients, not ingredients. Its protein, fat, and carbohydrate levels that are important, not corn, soy, potato, etc.”

Question, if a new meal replacement bar came onto the market for humans that contained all the essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids (synthetically added) a human needs plus adequate levels of protein, fat and carbohydrates and the main ingredients were refined grains, high fructose corn syrup and partially-hydrogenated oil would you quit eating real food and eat this for every meal? I mean it contains the necessary “nutrients”, right? Hopefully that analogy makes you understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Ingredients matter. As I told you on another thread – you can’t put ground chuck into recipe and get filet mignon in the end. Garbage is garbage. Yes, all living things need nutrients but these nutrients (or at least the majority of these nutrients) should be derived from fresh, whole, species-appropriate foods. I’ll give you some food (no pun intended) for thought.

1) Many health organizations (including the U.S. Cancer Institute and the United Kingdom Health Department) advise humans to get their nutrients from whole foods and not synthetic supplements (shouldn’t our pets do the same?). When dealing with synthetic nutrients, the chance for overdose is much higher – chance of overdose is minimal when consuming whole foods. Errors in compounding synthetic concoctions happen and pets die – for example the excess vitamin d recall. You don’t have to worry about there “accidentally” being too much vitamin d when the vitamin d source is real, whole foods.

2) You say that the inclusion of ingredients such as “corn, soy and potato” are inconsequential – what matters it the “guaranteed analysis” of the end result. So a mixture of corn, soy and potato is perfectly fine as long as the protein, fat and carbohydrate levels are where they need to be and the food is pumped up with artificial nutrients to account for the lack of nutrients in the ingredients themselves, right? Well let’s examine these ingredients that you say are fine to feed:

-Soy: contains anti-nutrients which hinder the ability of digestive enzymes needed for proper digestion; contains phytates which limit the body’s ability to absorb key nutrients such as zinc, magnesium and calcium; loaded with isoflavones that disrupt endocrine function and have been linked to infertility and breast cancer (in humans); contains goitrogens which block the synthesis of thyroid hormones; most soy is genetically modified (studies in animals have linked consumption of GMO ingredients to negative hepatic, pancreatic, renal and reproductive side effects that may alter the hematological, biochemical and immunologic parameters).
-Corn: contains lectins, has a high glycemic index, one of the most genetically modified crops (see above), highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.
-Potatoes: also commonly genetically modified (see above), high glycemic index, contain lectins, can contain the toxin solanine.

3) Most of the low-grade foods that contain corn, soy and the like also contain animal by-products. Are animal by-products inherently bad? No – my dogs love fresh organ meat, chicken feet, beef tracheas, etc. (from animals slaughtered for human consumption) and I love allowing them to eat fresh, quality by-products. However fresh quality by-products are not what is in pet food. Many grocery store quality brands of dog food have tested positive for pentobarbital – this means that the by-products contain euthanized animals (potentially even dogs and cats). Pento is recognized as a serious danger to wildlife. Wildlife that feed on disposed euthanized animals often die of pento poisoning – so is this a safe ingredient to be feeding to our beloved pets? I think not. Also – most by-product meals, while undoubtedly high in protein, contain very low quality protein derived from feathers, beaks and the like. This protein is poorly digested and puts a strain on the animals kidneys over time (unlike high quality, digestible protein derived from fresh meat).

Your view of pet food ingredients is simplistic, to say the least. It’s necessary to look at the bigger picture, food isn’t as simple as “fat, protein and carbohydrates.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi bella5255 –

If your dog is in the early stages of renal failure he shouldn’t need a reduced-protein diet. You don’t want to reduce the protein levels until the final stages of renal failure (when your dog is uremic – BUN is over 80 mg/dL, creatinine is over 4 mg/dL and the dogs is starting to show clinical symptoms of nitrogen buildup). The high quality protein provided by a homemade diet will not be hard on the kidneys in the way that low quality rendered proteins in most kibbles would be and is fine for dogs that have not yet become uremic – reducing the protein levels during the early stages of kidney failure will do more harm than good. I would just feed a standard balanced homemade diet and use very lean meats. Fish oil has has shown to help with kidney disease – because your dog has pancreatitis though, don’t give too much. Glandular supplements can help – Standard Process makes a great supplement called “Canine Renal Support.” Another supplement that I see recommended frequently for dogs with renal failure is “Vetri-Science Renal Essentials” – it contains vitamins, minerals, amino acids and herbs shown to be beneficial for dogs with renal failure. Here’s a link with some good info: http://dogaware.com/health/kidney.html (there’s even some sample homemade diets for dogs with kidney failure here).

[soho]

Hi Mike,

I would love to see more disclosure about the ingredients in a companies foods. All companies use the prettiest marketing terms to describe the quality of their ingredients “only the best” “highest quality” “human grade this or that” etc.

I like the way the Whole Dog Journal won’t review a food if it doesn’t disclose who manufactures it. In the beginning some companies balked at this idea and refused to disclose the manufacturers name and the location of the plant. They used terms like proprietary information as an excuse not to disclose. WDJ stood firm and now they all disclose because they all want to be in the WDJ’s dry food list of top foods!!

Many companies use your websites rating to promote their foods. “fill in the blank” received a 5 star rating from the Dog Food Advisor. You could easily ask a manufacturer to disclose more info to be reviewed on DFA. Who actually manufactures their human grade this or that. Where do their meat meals come from, their vitamins, their meats, their fats etc.

This would accomplish several things. Manufacturers would start to disclose more, consumers would get a chance to learn more, companies that use inferior ingredients would start to upgrade their ingredients in order to get your coveted 5 star rating and people would start to avoid the companies who refused to disclose.

[vas4511]

I want to feed my puppy chihuahua (almost 9 months old) a variety of meats and veggies. Not only does this particular one have whole potatoes, whole sweet potatoes and other ingredients but it has several vitamins and chelates in it. I don’t see this one listed as top rated though. Is this a high quality product?

Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I just sat and typed a nice long response answering your questions, posted it and it disappeared (so if a duplicate response shows up later that’s why). 🙁

So here it goes again…

I get my meat from several sources. I occasionally buy meat from the grocery store, I order some hard to source items (such as certain organs and green tripe) from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore, I get unwanted meat (usually bone and organs) from hunters (my dad actually gave me a whole deer this year!) – but most of my meat comes from a wholesale distributor that supplies restaurants, grocery stores and large dog kennels. I have to order from the distributor in 300 lb. shipments but it’s worth it – I pay about half the price I’d pay at the grocery store. As for fish – be very careful! Certain types of fish can carry a parasite that causes salmon poisoning in dogs if the fish is fed raw (and no, it’s not just salmon that can carry this parasite). I rarely feed raw fish, occasionally I’ll feed raw sardines because I know they’re a safe fish but that’s about it.

To answer your question about organ meat – organ meat is as high, if not higher in protein than muscle meat. However, organ meat should only make up 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other organs. Organ meat is extremely nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to include in the dogs’ diet to supply certain vitamins and minerals, but the levels are so high that too much organ meat can be toxic. Keep in mind – green tripe, gizzards and heart are NOT organ meat (some people make the mistake of thinking they are, so I wanted to clarify to make sure you understood) and can be fed as muscle meat. Organ meat would include: liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, lungs and brain.

I wouldn’t feel too bad about not being able to get pre-made raw – I think homemade is much higher quality and you’re able to feed more variety and have better control over the ingredients. Formulating menus – while time consuming – has actually gotten fun for me, I think I’d get bored feeding pre-made! Here’s a link to some typical menus that I’d serve to my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I love Carlson’s products – I think they make some of the highest quality fish oils. I give my dogs their cod liver oil a few times a week for extra vitamin d – I wouldn’t feed most cod liver oils due to excessive vitamin a and Carlson’s is the only one I’ve found without excessive levels.

I get my meat from several sources. I do buy meat from the grocery store on occasion (Be VERY careful with buying fish – depending on the type of fish and where it came from it could have salmon poisoning. I personally don’t feed raw fish very often – occasionally raw sardines, but that’s it.), I occasionally order from hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com (I can get a lot of difficult to find offal from these places), I get unwanted parts (usually offal and bones) from hunters (I actually got my dad to give me a whole deer this year 😉 ) – but mostly I get meat delivered from a wholesale distributor. I order shipments of 300 lbs. at a time from a wholesaler that also sells to grocery stores, restaurants and caters to large dog kennels – I can get a lot of the stuff I need (chicken backs, turkey necks, hearts, gizzards, livers, ground beef, etc.) for about half of what I’d pay in the grocery store. The only downside to buying in bulk is everything just comes in huge 40 lb. boxes – I have to divide it all up myself, but it’s worth it considering how much money I save.

To answer your question about offal – offal i very high in protein, about the same amount if not more than muscle meat. Organ meat should only constitute 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other offal. Organ meat is VERY nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to feed in order to provide adequate amounts of certain vitamins and minerals but it’s easy to go overboard. Many of the vitamins and minerals found in organ meat, while necessary in small amounts, can be toxic if fed in large amounts. For example, liver is extremely high in vitamin a – vitamin a is a fat soluble vitamin so extremely high levels fed over an extended period of time can cause toxicity. Remember green tripe, heart and gizzards are NOT organ meat – a lot of people think these things are organ meat, but they’re not and the amount fed of these things doesn’t have to be restricted (like it does with true organ meat). The things that would count toward your dogs’ 10% organ meat would be: liver, kidneys, lungs, pancreas, spleen and brain.

I wouldn’t be too upset that you can’t get Darwin’s or other pre-made raw foods – homemade is much higher quality, more customizable and you can feed more variety. It is time-consuming to make food from scratch, but I’ve gotten to where I think it’s fun to formulate new menus – I would get bored feeding pre-made. If you check out this link you’ll be able to see some typical menus for my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dr. Mike –

This is a great question and I think it will make for a great discussion as everyone’s criteria are so different.

First off, in answering it for myself, I’m going to assume we’re looking for dry dog foods – otherwise I, obviously, would give preference to raw foods.

1) The first thing I look at it protein content. I won’t typically consider a food with under 35% protein – however if the food fell between 30% and 34% but had several other exemplary qualities I may make an exception (I would never go under 30% though).

2) I then look at fat content. I typically like dry foods with at least 15% fat (I feed much higher fat levels with raw, but dry foods are generally fairly low in fat).

3) I then look at ingredients. I always want a meat ingredient first – no exceptions. I prefer a fresh meat followed by at least one meat meal – but I would not rule out an otherwise good food if it only contains meat meals. Although there are some exceptions, I typically won’t feed a food that contains by-products. I never feed a food that contains any unnamed animal ingredients – such as animal fat, animal digest or animal by-products. I won’t feed foods with grains and look, instead, for foods that use potato, tapioca, legumes or pseudo-grains (or some combination of these) as a binder. Other ingredients that I look for and would not feed to my animals are: chemical preservative (such as BHA), menadione, artificial colorings, propylene glycol or any sort of sugar (sugar, molasses, honey, etc.). I also prefer to see a short list of added vitamins, minerals and amino acids – this tells me that much of the nutrition is derived from the ingredients in the food itself and there’s less reliance on synthetic supplements.

4) I then look at the company. I won’t rule out a company if it’s had recalls, but I do take into consideration how many recalls the company has had, how far apart they were and how the company handled the recalls. I like a company that is open about where they source their ingredients and that doesn’t source from China. I typically call or email the company’s customer service before feeding a food and if either a) I don’t get a response b) the customer service rep seems knowledgeable c) customer service is rude or d) I get the impression the company is giving me the run around when I ask a question – I will not feed the food.

[InkedMarie]

Pug Mom Sandy: the Only Natural Pet joint supplement….I find this:

BIXBI Joint Supplement for Dogs & Cats

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Super-Daily-Vitamins–Joint-Support/999066.aspx

In Clover K9 Connectin

did you mean any of those? Yes, I could use a mortar & pestal but to be honest, with three dogs and a cupboard of stuff, I’d just as soon buy one already ground/liquid!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi astroweeks –

I know that for a dog with SBS you want to make the digestion process as efficient as possible so adding a high quality digestive enzyme supplement and multi-strain probiotic supplement would be a good idea. I would also add some unfiltered apple cider vinegar – vinegar is an acid and will help the food to breakdown easier in the stomach. I’ve also read that fiber can help SBS dogs by slowing down the digestion process – so maybe some canned pumpkin would help. I’m not sure if you’re giving him any nutritional supplements, but depending on how bad his digestion is you may want to talk to your vet about adding additional vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids to ensure he’s not becoming malnourished. If possible, I would also look into getting him on a higher quality food that’s higher in fat and more calorie-dense to help him put on some weight. I haven’t read a whole lot about SBS so, unfortunately, that’s about all the help I can give you. Maybe someone else will chime in with some more suggestions.

[mydogisme]

Jamienico, I hear and feel every word you are saying. My son came with me to look at things I will need for her burial. dress, favorite toy,ball,necklase with diamond stone with her name. I love her and I felt I could splurge on her to show others just how much i love her but she never knew any difference only she loved being next to me and me talking to her at night before we both fell asleep. how do we make these people or companies pay for what they have done to us and to our pets? nothing ever will replace your babies nor mine. I dont know what to do,maybe Mike would know where to get started. If 1 woman came up against a water company in Tx for causing cancer, why cant we come up against these companies putting stuff in dog food that claim feed them what you would eat. I got to one point 2 years ago of not liking what i was seeing on bags and started feeding Dixie organic human food but knew i couldnt match the vitamins she would need. So again I switched her to the best foods. I bought her some treats thats on the front said Vitality,pure chicken. I check out every word EXCEPT in the very bottom in tini words it said’made in china!’ I got sick and ran to her vet and he said she probably wasnt on it long enough to do any harm. i bought maybe 3 or 4 bags over the summer as yard treats when i would mow the yard,Dixie would sit and watch,when I got to close that she might get dust on her I took her in to sit on her window seat to watch me mow. She did everything with me and went everywhere with me. I hear every word you said. I know the feelings. I will never ever have another pet. My heart is shattered over Dixie

[soho]

Hi Safarisam

These recommendations are just my opinion and I am NOT a vet. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. I would try to find a holistic or integrative vet to be part of your healthcare team in dealing with your dogs diet and his diabetes!

There are many many options for your pom. Since you mentioned you would love to make his food here is one option. Buy ground turkey, ground beef and chicken breasts from your local supermarkets. Buy some frozen vegetables, no onions or starchy veggies like potatoes and no grains. His diet should be at least 80% meat and no more then 20% vegetables.

You can steam the veggies and then mash them up or you can puree them in a blender or food processor without cooking them. The idea is to make the veggies easier to digest since dogs don’t process veggies that well. The meats can be lightly cooked using low heat. I would be cautious about giving raw food to your dog at this point because it is hard for anyone to judge the condition of his immune system and the damage that has been done from the diabetes. A good immune system is necessary to handle the bacteria from raw food.

Since there are no bones in this diet a calcium supplement is necessary. If it is made for dogs it will have the dosages on the label. A multivitamin is also necessary because it is difficult for the home prepared diet to be complete and balanced without adding vitamins and minerals. Again if it is made for dogs the dosage will be on the label. I would also add some digestive enzymes and some sardines for their omega 3 content. The sardines would be part of the 80% meat portion of the diet. additional toppers like green tripe and organ meats can be rotated in the 80% part of the diet. Toppers should be no more then 20% of the total diet.

This is a start and there are many more options than the one I have given. A good book for you to help with your dogs diet would be see spot live longer by Steve Brown.

I wish you and your pomeranian the very best!

[Safarisam]

I am new here and I have a 11 year old Pomeranian who was diagnosed with diabetes in August/September. He was emergency vet for about a week and is now on insulin (canineinsulin (3) 2 times a day) I am having a really difficult time trying to stabilize him. I would love to make his food but dont know where to even start and what ingredients are best for him and what vitamins and how much to add etc.
I also feed him canned food (lil caesars & Mighty dog) however see it is high in fat

I am a single woman on disability and just want to do everything I can to make sure he is getting the best diet and on the best schedule…can someone please help me with resources and links and advice on what to do.

Thank you so much

[shelties mom]

HDM,

I really like your whole food supplement recipe, what do you recommend if a dog is allergic to turmeric? I don’t know if mine will but I read somewhere that a dog was allergic. I have Dr. Karen Becker’s recipe book and will use the recipes as a guide, but really want to avoid any synthetic vitamins in her book. That’s what holding me up in doing all home-made. I’ve been feeding Darwin’s but want to it on my own. I don’t like the pre-mixes from THK or Sojos or any dehydrated food. I prefer all raw and fresh veggies. I can get grass-fed beef, lamb and raw wet bone meal from a local farmer, I’m going to visit some local butchers to see if I can get quality poultrys. Once I can get everything together, I’m ready to start doing it on my own.

[soho]

Hi i8ok

Thank you for your reply! Let’s take a closer look at the Plato Organic Chicken strips.
First the marketing claims:
Over 90% organic chicken
Natural ingredients, fortified with antioxidant vitamins, and zinc
No artificial colors, flavors, synthetic preservatives, or GMO’s (genetically modified organisms)
Naturally preserved.
Antioxidant vitamins E and С
No meat by-products or meals

Second the Actual Numbers and ingredients:
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein: 30% min
(How in the world are these treats over 90% chicken and only 30% protein?)
Crude fat: 30% min
(Where did all this fat come from if the treats are over 90% chicken?)
Crude fiber: 1% max
Moisture: 15% max
(This moisture level is a little too high in my opinion to guarantee against spoilage.)
Zinc: 180mg/kg min
Vitamin E: 101 lU/kg min
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) 50mg/kg min*
Omega 6 Fatty Acids –
Omega 3 Fatty Acids –
Iron –

INGREDIENTS
Organic chicken, organic brown rice, salt, zinc propionate, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2phosphate (a source of vitamin C), mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative), rosemary extract.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Now lets take a look at the facts about my chicken jerky:
Made from boneless, skinless chicken breasts bought at the deli section of Costco. This is not pet grade chicken. I know that there are a million marketing claims concerning the chicken in pet foods and treats but not one of the commercial brands are made using supermarket meat like I use. This is the same meat that you and your family eat.

You say you wont eat farm raised fish or feed it to your dog. I respect you for that. But why would you feed your dog pet grade chicken which is a by product of the human grade food business? Pet grade chicken (or any other pet grade meat for that matter) is what is left over after everything that can be used for human grade chicken is removed! And that’s the good stuff. The bad pet grade meats are the Dead, Dying, Downed or Diseased meats that never made into the human food chain in the first place!

Ingredients: 99.8% boneless skinless chicken breasts, salt, garlic. The only thing added to my chicken jerky is 0.2% spices (salt and garlic).

Guaranteed analysis as fed:
Protein 87%
(You read that right 87% now what treat could be better for a meat eater)
Fat 4.5%
(This is what the fat could be in other products if they used the same chicken breasts that I do)
Carbohydrate 0%
(Remember dogs have no biological need for carbs)
Minerals 3.5%
(This is what ash is)
Fiber 0%
Moisture 5%
(5% moisture is low enough to ensure against spoilage)

The chicken I use is Whole Chicken Breasts intended FOR human consumption. Not ground pet grade chicken (Plato)

My chicken jerky is JUST chicken and 0.2% spices. Plato uses brown rice as a filler.

When you look at the facts my jerky is a great value. Compare my jerky to other human grade jerky products sold for human consumption and you will see that my jerky is an OUTSTANDING value!

Thank you aimee

[awatson48169]

Hi! We have an eight year old greyhound. He’s been eating Taste of the Wild Salmon and loves it. We’re happy with it too because it seems like to has good nutritional value for the price.

Recently, he’s been having some issues with digestion. The vet recommended putting him on Hill’s Prescription Diet, but before we switch to that we’ve started adding a fiber supplement to his food:

Ingredients: Organic Maitake, Organic Shitake, Organic Lion’s Mane, Organic Beech, Organic Turkey Tail, Organic Oyster, Vitamins B1, B12, C + D; Polysaccharides, Triterpenes, Natural Enzymes, Prebiotics, Dietary Fiber

Does anyone have any thoughts on this supplement? It’s made in the USA and it seems like others are getting good results, but we’re curious if anyone has any insight into the ingredients. Also, if you have any other fiber supplements you use, we’d like to hear about them.

Thanks!

[Shawna]

No, Audrey has never had any other issues except the kd. Blood pressure is good.. Her kidneys didn’t develop properly before being born. I do everything in my power to make sure she has little to no inflammation in her body. I don’t have any toxins in my home that the kidneys/liver have to filter. I looked at the ingredients in all the products I used (swiffer sweeper cleaning liquid etc) and checked their MSDS or the CDC to see if each ingredient was kidney friendly. I got rid of almost all cleaners etc I was using prior to Audrey coming to me. Many (actually most) of them were “green” too.

She also only gets reverse osmosis or distilled water.. The tap water in my area is not truly “clean” (has fluoride etc).

I do give her nutraceuticals as well — she gets enzymes with EVERY meal. She gets the pro and prebiotics as needed. She gets a product called Canine Renal Support from Standard Process which I think has been a HUGE part of her health. I also give her Canine Hepatic Support to help her liver. The liver is more likely to get stressed because the kidneys aren’t doing their part. She gets extra vitamin B complex and C — these are water soluble vitamins and are lost in excess due to the large volumes of urine so they need to be supplemented. Most vets don’t discuss these kinds of things that will help our kd pups live a longer healthier life…

Audrey has NEVER had a rabies shot. She is exempted for life. She’s never had any vaccines except her first puppy shots (distemper, parvo and adeno). No lymes, lepto, kennel cough etc. They know that vaccines can stress the kidneys. She also has never had flea/tick or heartworm meds, pharmaceutical dewormers etc. ALL of these add insult to injury.

I haven’t used it but I’ve spoken with others that have had very very good success with an herbal regimen by Five Leaf Pharmacy (my father is a Master Herbalist so he could make these for me at less than half the cost—otherwise I probably would have tried them).. He liked the formulas.. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

[Shawna]

Sprouting neutralizes lectins.. I have a research article at work but….I’m at home.

In addition to neutralizing lectins, sprouting deactivates phytic acid and the enzyme inhibitors as well. The grain or seed becomes a living food (a baby plant) and since the enzyme inhibitors are inactivated the enzymes within the food is activated. Sprouting increases protein and vitamins within the grain too.

This is, in my opinion, a really interesting article on lectins. A quick quote
“A number of animal studies have shown that an increase in polyamines caused by a high lectin diet resulted in increases in the size of the intestines, liver, and pancreas.7

Lucretius said, “One man’s food is another man’s poison” and lectins give us part of the reason why. It is our individual genetic inheritances that determine how and to what degree lectins can affect us. Almost everybody has antibodies to some dietary lectins in their bloodstream. ” http://www.vrp.com/digestive-health/lectins-their-damaging-role-in-intestinal-health-rheumatoid-arthritis-and-weight-loss

[Shawna]

Hi Bill 🙂

1. The reason plant based proteins are combined, as you know, is that some are deficient in one essential amino acid or another. By combining you can get representation of all essentials. My problem with this is that if not done well it can still cause an excess of others making the entire protein content less bioavailable. Bioavailability is the ability of the body to use the amino acids from the proteins we eat. Egg has 100% bioavailability — ALL the amino acids in an egg are used leaving none to become blood urea nitrogen for the kidneys to have to filter. When we combine foods we’re bound to have an excess of some and a proper representation of others. The body is then going to have an excess of some that it can’t use and these become blood urea nitrogen. This isn’t a bad thing unless the eater has kidney disease.

All animal based proteins already have all essential amino acids so combining is not really as necessary. However some have more of one and less of another — turkey, as an example, is a good source of tryptophan. Adding animal based protein to any kibble is a good idea and mixing up the proteins makes sense (different amino acids, different fat representations etc). You can not over feed protein to a healthy dog. What they can not use they will safely eliminate causing no harm.

It’s best to feed eggs raw as cooking them can denature the protein in the whites and destroy the omega 3 in the yolk. If feeding whites only you must cook them as the avidin in the white binds to the B vitamin biotin and can cause a deficiency. The yolk is high in biotin so when feeding together avidin is now believed to not be an issue.

2. I don’t think that carbs reduce the benefit of protein (with an exception) but rather they take the place of the much more needed protein. It is well known, and mentioned in the teaching books like Waltham, that dogs have NO nutritional need for carbs. Adding carbs displaces the macronutrients they do need — fat and protein. Dogs can derive glucose from protein and fat. Carbs (starch) is added to kibble more because kibble can not be made without starch than a dietary need. I do think that in our modern world the antioxidants, vitamins etc in high quality carbs (veggies and fruit) can be of great benefit when used in small amounts though.

The exception I mentioned above — there is a theory that carbs and proteins digest at different rates, and more importantly, at different acid/base levels. Lou and Marilyn Diamond had a very interesting book out in the 80’s called “Fit for Life”. From memory, the theory is that carbs (starch) digest in an alkaline environment and protein in acid. This is true but I don’t know if one impedes the other. Example — if a high starch diet prevents the stomach from producing enough HCL to activate the pepsin protein in the stomach that digests the protein.. If this is true than excess, or any, starch can make protein digestion more difficult. Carbs could be eaten but not at the same meal as protein and visa versa. Fruit had to be eaten alone and non-starchy carbs (aka certain veggies) could be eaten with protein or starchy meals. I tried this and I do think it improved digestion considerably but it was difficult to maintain and after about 8 months I gave it up never to retry.

3. I’m sure there’s a way to easily figure out the percent but math is not my strong suit so I’ll leave that to someone with stronger math skills :). I will say however that I don’t think you need to worry about it. Those of us that feed raw, myself and Toxed included, feed protein amounts in excess of 50%. What you do want to be congniscent of is not to add more than 20% of ANY food that is not balanced to an already balanced diet. Doing so can throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and that could be bad..

I am HORRIBLY sorry if this post makes little to no sense…?? I’m watching my 1 and 2 year old grand kids and they make concentration and focus near impossible.

Thank you Toxed for your vote of confidence!!!!! 🙂 Love you girl!!

[Toxed2loss]

Tapioca is one of the alternative starches being used in higher end kibbles. Its gluten free, non-GMO, and when properly processed, non-toxic. In order to make, and bind kibble you must use a certain amount of starch. Tapioca is a good choice in that it is nontoxic, gluten & lectin free.

There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated about tapioca, so lets review the facts and set the record straight. There are no poisonings from properly processed tapioca flour. In fact, most poisonings occur in famine stricken areas where the starving individuals try to take short cuts in processing the raw cassava or manioc root. This is well documented. Tapioca has been safely consumed for thousands of years and is the main staple starch in African, Indonesian and South American diets. “500 million people rely on cassava as their main source of calories, among them subsistence farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa…”Richard Sayre, a professor of plant biology at Ohio State University
—-

“The Culprit in Cassava Toxicity: Cyanogens or Low Protein?
by G. Padmaja

The starchy roots of cassava (Manihot esculenta Crantz) are already a staple for about 500 million people of tropical Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but countless others might also benefit from this food if it were not for the sensationalism that sometimes surrounds the crop’s potential toxicity.
The cassava plant carries two cyanogenic glucosides, linamarin and lotaustralin, in its edible roots and leaves. The amounts of these potentially toxic compounds vary considerably, according to cultivar and growing conditions. “Sweet” varieties usually have such small amounts as to be innocuous, whereas “bitter” varieties have sufficiently high levels to require domestic processing to remove most of the toxins.

In situations where famine or extreme poverty may force a population to eat poorly processed cassava in a diet that is also deficient in nutrients such as protein, the plant’s cyanogenic glucosides can lead to poisoning. A classic case was the infantile kwashiorkor epidemic in famine-stricken Biafra in 1968, but there have also been recent examples of spastic paraparesis, or konzo, in drought-stricken regions of Mozambique and Tanzania.

Detoxifying cassava

Farming populations who cultivate cassava have developed many methods of detoxifying cassava. Boiling and drying are sufficient to make low-cyanogen cultivars safe for consumption, but more rigorous procedures such as grating, fermenting, and sun-drying, are necessary to effectively remove cyanogens from cultivars of higher toxicity.

The protein link

Whenever a chronic disease has been linked to cassava consumption, the victims have also been found to suffer from protein deficiency, suggesting a relationship between the two.

Protein is essential for all the body’s vital functions, and for eliminating certain dietary toxins. With the help of the enzyme rhodanese, the human body detoxifies cyanide by forming thiocyanate. When the body is regularly exposed to cassava cyanogens, the increased synthesis of rhodanese makes extra demands on the body’s reserves of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. To detoxify 1.0 mg hydrocyanic acid (HCN), the body also needs a daily supply of about 1.2 mg of dietary sulfur (S) from S- containing amino acids (SAA). If the demand for rhodanese and SAA is prolonged, as in the regular consumption of cassava, and the diet is inadequate, the synthesis of many proteins vital for bodily functions may be impaired, leading to the development of protein deficiency diseases.

Cassava – low protein source

Cyanogens alone cannot be blamed for toxicity because other cyanogenic crops, such as sorghum and Lathyrus bean, which are widely used as food, cause few toxicity problems. But the protein contents of these two crops (11.0% and 18.7%, respectively) are higher.

Many cassava products contain very low amounts of cyanogens, which can be efficiently eliminated by the body, if the protein intake is adequate. Cassava roots, being bulky and rich in carbohydrates, free dietary proteins from having to meet the body’s energy needs, thus allowing them to be used more efficiently. However, the level of protein in cassava lags far behind the levels found in rice, wheat, and tuber crops (Figure 1). An adult consuming 1 kg of cassava has to ingest 52 g of protein from other sources to obtain the U.S. recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 65 g protein per adult. In contrast, 1 kg of wheat supplies 121 g of protein and rice, 61 to 64 g of protein.

If protein intake is more than adequate for both general metabolic requirements and cyanide elimination, toxic effects are lessened or even eliminated, even if cassava is improperly processed. (Fatal poisoning can result from ingestion of large amounts of unprocessed or poorly processed high-cyanogen cassava.) Hence, the lack of protein in cassava roots is probably responsible for most non-fatal cases of cyanide poisoning associated with cassava.”
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgiar/newsletter/Oct96/6cassava.html
——-
Notice it was cassava and not tapioca, that caused the poisonings. Notice also that they weren’t in the US, but in impoverished areas, in developing nations, and there was a lack of sufficient dietary protein.
——-

Nutritional profile of cassava
Cassava root is essentially a carbohydrate source.[27] Its composition shows 60–65 percent moisture, 20–31 percent carbohydrate, 1–2 percent crude protein and a comparatively low content of vitamins and minerals. However, the roots are rich in calcium and vitamin C and contain a nutritionally significant quantity of thiamine, riboflavin and nicotinic acid. Cassava starch contains 70 percent amylopectin and 20 percent amylose. Cooked cassava starch has a digestibility of over 75 percent.
Cassava root is a poor source of protein. Despite the very low quantity, the quality of cassava root protein is fairly good in terms of essential amino acids. Methionine, cysteine and cystine are, however, limiting amino acids in cassava root.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cassava
——

THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAPIOCA
Aug 5, 2011 | By Kristi Wray

Conventionally, tapioca, derived from the cassava plant, is best known as a creamy pudding dessert with little sustenance. However, in some in areas like Africa, Asia and South America, tapioca is known better for its nutritional benefits than as a sweet treat. When eaten raw or incorrectly prepared, the plant releases poisonous properties. Thus, tapioca must be prepared correctly to prevent harm and ensure safe eating.

STARCH EQUALS ENERGY
The cassava plant is a root vegetable and a healthy source of carbohydrates. In many countries, it serves as a main dish because of its high starch content. Even better, it is considered a healthy starch because it is low in cholesterol and unhealthy fats. Tapioca can be included in dietary plans to promote healthy weight gain.

GLUTEN-FREE
People suffering with Celiac disease or other conditions that restrict the use of gluten-based foods can use tapioca as an alternative to recipes that use wheat flour. Tapioca flour, which does not contain any gluten, is a healthier alternative to wheat flour. Both tapioca flour and tapioca starch can be used as a thickening agent in cream-based sauces and gravies.

MINERALS
Calcium, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium can be found in tapioca in varying amounts. If you are preparing a more processed form of the root, like a pudding mix, you will receive a smaller amount of these minerals than if you were to consume tapioca starch or flour. Tapioca is also a good source of iron, and, in particular, dry tapioca pearls contain up to 13 percent of your daily value of iron. B-vitamins, including folic acid, which is extremely vital for pregnant women, are also found in tapioca.

DIETARY FIBER
Over the years, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has placed extreme importance on the consumption of dietary fiber on a daily basis for a healthier lifestyle. The cassava root has a significant amount of dietary fiber in its natural form. According to the USDA, foods high in dietary fiber can help lower cholesterol, decrease the rate of colon cancer, and lower the risk of diabetes and heart disease.” http://www.livestrong.com/article/509033-the-health-benefits-of-tapioca/
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So there you have it. A factual picture of tapioca starch, without the scare tactics.

[weimlove]

The other day, I found a product called PetKelp. It’s ingrdients are kelp, flax, and blueberries. It says it can be used for a supplement with food to ensure all needed vitamins and minerals. I know I will still need to add some source of fish oil, but do you think if I used the petkelp that I would need to still add vitamin E and alfalfa? Here is the website of the PetKelp wellness formula:
http://www.petkelp.com/antioxidant.html
If anyone could look at the ingredients and let me hear your opinions I would greatly appreciate it!

[weimlove]

HDM- I think that’s a great idea. Thanks for everything. I still have two weeks of kibble to use so until I run out I plan on buying some pre mix and also some vitamins and minerals as well. Can’t wait to transition I’ll definitely let y’all know how he does!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

This is one supplement I use with all 8 forms of vitamin e (I’m actually using this one at the moment):

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-e-tocotrienol-complex-60-liquid-vegetarian-capsules/?NttSR=1

I’ve also used the NOW Gamme E Complex with mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols:

http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Vitamins/Vitamin-E/M012530.htm

[Shawna]

Weimlove,

HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

Hope that helps :).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Don’t feel bad bad for the question overload…I love questions! 🙂

If you’re using a pre-mix don’t use meat/organ/bone mixtures. Most pre-mixes only require boneless meat, a few (such as urban wolf) do require organ meat but most don’t require organs either. The reason you don’t want to include bone is because dogs need a balanced ratio of calcium to phosphorus, this ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus. The pre-mixes are made with calcium and without phosphorus. Muscle meat and organ meat is high in phosphorus but has no calcium, while bone is high in calcium in lower in phosphorus. For raw feeders the correct ratio of muscle meat, organ meat and bone (80%, 10%, 10%) must be fed to ensure that the calcium and phosphorus levels are within balance and that enough organ meat is provided to provide essential vitamins and minerals – this is the most critical part of feeding homemade raw! The purpose of a pre-mix is to take the hard work out of it. Enough calcium is added to the pre-mix so that when boneless meat is added per the package instructions the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be in balance and most brands add the vitamins and minerals that would be found in the organ meat so that the addition of organ meat is not necessary. If you added organ meat and bones to a pre-mix you would potentially be throwing the calcium to phosphorus ratio out of balance and/or oversupplying certain nutrients. However, you could definitely add an rmb (such as a back or a neck) to the meal daily without throwing the calcium to phosphorus ratio out of whack – just feed the rmb in addition to the boneless meat that you add to the pre-mix, don’t count the rmb as the meat you’re adding to the pre-mix. I’d also go with the instructions that call for more meat and less pre-mix if you’re going to be feeding rmbs, as well. I know for THK’s preference there are two sets of instructions – one recommended for younger or more active dogs and one for older or more sedentary dogs. The one for active dogs called for 2 parts meat to 1 part pre-mix, while the one for less active dogs calls for equal parts of pre-mix and meat. While THK doesn’t supply the c:p ratio of the prepared product I’d assume the recipe calling for 2 parts meat to 1 part pre-mix is around 1:1, while the recipe calling for equal parts pre-mix is closer to 2:1. Using the recipe that calls for less pre-mix will keep the c:p ratio lower so when you add rmbs you’ll remain well within the 1:1 – 2:1 range. As for which type of boneless meat to add, you really can add any boneless muscle meat. I find that heart and gizzards tend to be cheapest (remember, heart and gizzards count as organ meat, not muscle meat). However, you certainly could buy ground beef, turkey, chicken, etc. (I’d keep it around 90% lean) or chop up boneless thigh meat breast meat or whatnot. Hope that wasn’t too confusing!

As for getting a picture, I think Dr. Mike has instructions on how to do it posted under the feedback and help section of the forums.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Great choice on switching to raw, you’ll notice a big difference in your dog’s health. I agree with everything Shawna said. I just wanted to add some info on a pre-mix I like. I feed mostly homemade (you can check out a weekly feeding schedule for my dogs on the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread) however I use Urban Wolf Pre-mix three mornings a week. What I like about Urban Wolf versus other pre-mixes is that it’s a fine powder and in my experience digests better (with pre-mixes like Sojo’s I notice an increase in stool volume and pieces of undigested veggies coming out) and that it relies on whole foods for nutrition – the only “vitamin” added is calcium, everything else comes from whole foods and I like that you have to add organ meat so your dog gets a lot of necessary nutrients from the organs rather than from added synthetic vitamins and minerals. You also need to add oil (but I’d recommend just adding an omega 3 and omitting the omega 6 oil they call for in the recipe, it’s not necessary to add the omega 6 oil and it results in the end recipe being too high in fat – you can see how I prepare it on the menus thread if you’re interested). The only downside of Urban Wolf, for me, is that it does contain white potato (although it’s pretty far down on the ingredients list and not a major component) – but I only use it a few mornings a week so it’d not of big concern for me. If you’re using only pre-mixes every day it’d probably be best to rotate and use several different pre-mixes. Here’s some good info on pre-mixes and it explains several of the options out there: http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html . I’d recommend feeding an even rotation of white meat and red meat, don’t rely on one or the other as they have different types of fats and if you only feed one or the other it would throw off the fat balance in your dog’s diet. The more variety the better. I’d also recommend feeding raw meaty bones at least two or three times a week this way your dog can get the full dental benefits a raw diet has to offer. I have large dogs and usually feed things like turkey necks, chicken backs, chicken leg quarters, duck necks, etc. Chicken necks and chicken wings work well for smaller dogs. I’d avoid the weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.) as they are too dense and can potentially chip a tooth or over time your dog can wear their teeth down – in my experience they also don’t digest well either, I used to feed them to my dogs occasionally and it seemed like they’d always puke up bone shards. Good luck! Be sure to come back if you have any questions, quite a few of us here feed raw and would love to help. 🙂