[pugmomsandy]

I haven’t free fed supplements but followed a recipe book for a vit/min mix to add to meals.

[AdinaFay]

Hey all,
Has anyone ever tried or looked into free-feeding supplements to their pooch that’s on a homemade or raw diet? I’m interested in if this has been done before or if there is a specific reason that it is /not/ done. It’s (at least as far as I am aware) standard practice for livestock and horses, and most dogs/cats will already self-regulate to a certain extent with behaviors such as grass-eating.

Background:
After struggling for two years with my 8lb mix’s allergies I’m committing to an elimination diet and, since that will be a long process of me making his meals, am also looking into proper balancing of homemade and raw meals. I don’t want to go a pre-made/balanced route because, at least for the first few months, they would defeat the point of the diet. I understand the concepts of balancing the diet as a whole, took animal nutrition in college, and am confident that I can create a menu that serves him well. However, I also understand how and why the AAFCO standards exist and I like the concept of him having access to additional supplements should he need them without me risking over-dosing him by providing a daily vitamin along with a diet that is well-balanced.

Thanks in advance for any input!

(X-posted in the supplements forum)

• This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[AdinaFay]

Hey all,
Has anyone ever tried or looked into free-feeding supplements to their pooch that’s on a homemade or raw diet? I’m interested in if this has been done before or if there is a specific reason that it is /not/ done. It’s (at least as far as I am aware) standard practice for livestock and horses, and most dogs/cats will already self-regulate to a certain extent with behaviors such as grass-eating.

Background:
After struggling for two years with my 8lb mix’s allergies I’m committing to an elimination diet and, since that will be a long process of me making his meals, am also looking into proper balancing of homemade and raw meals. I don’t want to go a pre-made/balanced route because, at least for the first few months, they would defeat the point of the diet. I understand the concepts of balancing the diet as a whole, took animal nutrition in college, and am confident that I can create a menu that serves him well. However, I also understand how and why the AAFCO standards exist and I like the concept of him having access to additional supplements should he need them without me risking over-dosing him by providing a daily vitamin along with a diet that is well-balanced.

Thanks in advance for any input!

[Albert S]

Struggling in losing weight? Try out liquid weight loss supplements at home. My brother is taking B12 Lipo Shots and he lost 3 lbs in a week but the secret formula to achieve weight loss goals is to take supplements with a healthy diet. With improper diet, you may have low energy levels. There are no side effects get it without a doctor prescription. https://buymicb12.com/

[Sanne]

Hmm sorry if this double posts… my post disappeared after submitting

Senior foods really do not have anything special about them compared to adult foods. In fact, the label will usually state something along the lines of “complete and balanced for maintenance of adult dogs” even on senior foods.

Some differences in senior foods can include added glucosamine and chondroitin but you are already using a joint supplement anyway. Some lower the fat and calories because some dogs become less active as they age so may gain weight on higher fat/calorie foods. Some will also have lower phosphorus levels so the food is easier on their aging kidneys. None of Purina’s foods are particularly high in phosphorus though so you would not need to worry about an even lower amount unless your dog has current kidney issues. Some will also lower the sodium level for aging hearts, but again Purina’s foods typically are not that high anyway. If your dog had a heart or kidney issue due to old age that needed these nutrients lowered, you would be best off with a prescription food than a senior food. Because NONE of these things are actually a requirement to label a food as “Senior” so feeding a senior food would not even guarantee any of these benefits.

Most healthy seniors can stay on their original adult food for the rest of their life

The only supplements are personally use for my oldies are CBD oil for joint pain and CoQ10 for heart health. I do not bother with supplements much unless my dogs have a specific issue that needs to be addressed.

[Christie B]

My 2 dogs: 4 year old 45 pound Catahoula Leopard Dog Mix (no food issues), 10 year old 120 pound American Bulldog mix (sensitivities to chicken, possibly lamb)

After feeding both dogs for years on various grain free food and dealing with gastrointestinal issues with one of the dogs, I took my vets advice and tried Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. I’m actually surprised that my dogs stools are smaller and firmer and my one dog hasn’t had any stomach related incidents (there was one like the 2nd day of transitioning when both dogs literally picked out and only ate the PPP and left their old Merrick food in the bowl, but I chalked it up to a transitioning headache).

I’m the first person who would cringe at just the thought of buying anything Purina related. But I told my vet I would at least try 2 bags of the food to see if my dog’s stomach issues resolved. So far so good, but I’m only halfway through first bag so we’ll see…

My question though is related to what senior dogs require as far as nutrient profiles and supplements. He’s always had a bowed front leg and it doesn’t bother him when he stands or walks. But I know it can become arthritic, especially since he’s a large breed. So he’s been on Dasuquin for a while (both dogs are).

Since the PPP is for Adults and there isn’t a PPP sensitive stomach formula for seniors, is there anything that I should be adding to his diet to meet his senior needs?

[Laura L]

Have you tried adding some probiotics or enzymes to her diet? There are some really good products for IBD/dog diarrhea/digestive issues. One of my dogs had a crazy bout of diarrhea that lasted for almost three months. He didn’t have any allergies, so we didn’t need to change the protein in his diet. It took time, but by adding supplements we were able to normalize his stool.

[Laura L]

Ryan – I see it has been over a year since you posted n this forum. Have you had any luck with treatments for your dachshund terrier?
I have been researching CT and found that much of the irritation is actually due to digestive issues. Go figure!
Check out the testimonials from people that have had luck using Ultra-Flex Collagen and Lypozyme to support CT
https://www.askariel.com/collapsed-trachea-supplements-s/1896.htm

[Mike D]

I understand that you want to give the best to your dog, I own a dog too and do my best to give it the best I can. So, I tried many kinds of food, different supplements. I think I have some experience with it. I have found very good reviews on dog supplements https://allpetsexpert.com/best-joint-supplement-for-dogs/ and I can tell that the choice of it is very good as well as the quality.

[Amber J]

Hi, everyone! I have three senior dogs (two are 13 years old, one is 9 years old), so it’s a bit tough to find reasonably priced senior dog food that works for all of them. Everyone is healthy but it’s hard to find dog food that works well for each dog’s bowels. They don’t have any grain or protein sensitivities that I’m aware of. Two of them have arthritis , but they are otherwise healthy. I use 6-8 cups of dog food a day, so super expensive food is not feasible for our household.

Since our two older dogs have arthritis, I like to see glocosamine, chondroitin, and omega’s in their food. I also like to see supplements that support muscle health, and plenty of fiber/digestive support ingredients. I was feeding them Victor Senior formula, but with Victor’s recent formula changes, all of the dogs are constipated and having a hard time pooping. I switched to Kirkland Senior formula, but their stools are a little too soft for my liking (especially as the person who has to scoop their poop out of the grass).

We have a wonderful local company who sells a senior dog food that seems like it might be okay, and is reasonably priced. I bought a 5-lb bag to test, and even my one picky boy loves it; he’s picking that kibble out and leaving the rest. Does anyone have thoughts on whether this food looks like it would be highly rated by Dogfood Advisor, or whether there are ingredients to avoid? Any other recommendations on reasonably priced senior/mature dog food that might work? I was looking at Fromm but it seems like they have some questionable history with their food.

Here’s the link to the local food: https://www.zamzows.store/products/grandma-zs-chicken-and-vegetable-senior-dog-food-35-lb

Any help would be most appreciated.

• This topic was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Amber J.

[anonymous]

Yeah, vitamin D and vitamin A are obviously toxic in large amounts.
Note recent dog food recalls

PS: I would only use supplements recommended by the vet (if any) Most are not necessary.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by anonymous.

[haleycookie]

There are no pet stores anywhere near you?
Canned raw pumpkin is good for digestion. Maybe not the best idea everyday though. You can use any quality canned food as a topper to mix the supplements in. Would be balanced food and free of sugar. Maybe try pure balance canned food. I’ve heard a lot of people whom don’t have pet stores around them that like the pure balance food. Any canned like merrick, wellness, even blue buffalo have ok stew canned foods. I think blue is at Walmart too.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by haleycookie.

[Bobby dog]

I read a comment on Skeptvet’s blog asking for advice from a Vet or two… I assume no one replied because they had not examined the dog.

Zignature never fell down a “rabbit hole.” Their whole schtick from the beginning was holistic, grain free, exotic meats, and no chicken, potatoes, wheat, soy, or corn that’s what they built their brand on, “Meat first provides the animal protein dogs need to thrive, while our limited ingredient philosophy eliminates allergenic ingredients, such as Chicken, Corn, Wheat Gluten, Soy, and Potatoes. The result is an optimal hypoallergenic, grain free, and low carbohydrate nutrition. We build on this natural foundation by adding vital supplements such as antioxidants, essential fatty acids, and a complete spectrum of vitamins and minerals for holistic pet food that goes beyond nature to become your pet’s signature food for life.” ~ Zignature

Don’t forget Zig’s endorsement of the Glycemic Research Institute…wonder if the creator of that business ever got their weight loss chocolate off the ground…

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT ZIGNATURE® CONTAINS NO POTATOES?
Potatoes have been identified as a high-glycemic carbohydrate for dog food. Zignature® only uses low glycemic carbohydrates such as whole Chickpeas, and garden Peas which also provide valuable soluble and insoluble fiber. For more details, visit the Glycemic Research institute.
https://zignature.com/faq/

[Shayne, Ultimate Pet Nutrition]

Hi Tt G, I’m Shane from Ultimate Pet Nutrition. I’m so sorry to hear about your friend’s pup’s experience. I would like to get more information from them so we can report this to our Adverse Reactions Team. This is not a common reaction of Nutra Thrive, so we take reactions like these very seriously. Can you please have your friend contact me at Shayne@ultimatepetnutrition.com with specific details? I’d also like to issue them a full refund. As you mentioned, as with all supplements, some work well for certain dogs and not for others which is why we offer a 90-Day Money Back Guarantee. I look forward to hearing from your friend and getting to the bottom of this.

[Simba C]

Hi, I don’t have a dog yet but I may be adopting one this summer. I’ve recently learned about raw feeding and I think it’s much better than feeding kibble, but I do have a few questions.

Which is cheaper? Commercial or homemade?
I live near My Pet Carnivore and was thinking of ordering their food. Will I need to add supplements for their whole grounds?
How do I prevent bacteria from the raw meat spreading when the dog runs around the house? I live with the elderly and young children.
There seems to be no vet near me that supports raw feeding, I’ve emailed them and they all say it’s nutritionally imbalanced and I should not be doing it. How do I convince them otherwise?
I don’t have a local co-op but my friend is thinking of doing raw as well, can we make a mini co-op together?

Thanks.

[anonymous]

Integrating Myths and Nonsense with Standard Advice for Allergic Pets

excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments

“Of course, I’ve written about the raw diet nonsense before, and there is, once again, no evidence that raw diets have any benefit in terms of preventing or treating allergies. As for supplements, apart from limited evidence that fish oils can reduce the dosage of other drugs needed to control allergy symptoms, there is no solid data to support supplement recommendations. Overall, this section makes erroneous and misleading implications about the causes of food allergies, recommends a dubious diagnostic test, and then suggests treatments that have not been demonstrated to help”.

Hair and Saliva Test for Allergies are Worthless Pseudoscience

excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments

Hair and Saliva Test for Allergies are Worthless Pseudoscience
Posted on November 6, 2018 by skeptvet
There is a lot of mythology out there about food allergies. The recent concern about the potential risks of grain-free diets is only an issue at all because such diets became wildly popular with no evidence that grains were a problem in the first place. A lot of folks blame grains for allergies and other health problems, but there’s no real evidence this is true, and these ingredients probably play a fairly minor role in food allergies in dogs and cats.
Other myths about food allergies include the idea that changing diets can cause them (actually, prolonged exposure is usually needed to develop a sensitivity), that raw foods are less allergenic (nope, only more likely to give you a food-borne illness), and that you can use blood, hair, or saliva tests to diagnose food allergies (sorry, a limited ingredient diet trial is the only way to do this). This last misconception is perpetuated despite evidence from human medicine that it is not true because, quite frankly, it makes people money.

[anonymous]

If you click on the link you will see hundreds of comments I have posted on the subject.
It would take several hours to repeat the information you will find there.
There is a search engine here for that reason.

Better yet, make an appointment with a veterinary dermatologist asap to get your dog properly diagnosed and treated. There is no veterinary healthcare professional at this site. Even if there were they have not examined your dog nor can they provide specific advice regarding your pet. Best of luck!

Example “The diet helps but it can only do so much.
A multifaceted approach is often needed for environmental allergies. There is no cure.
But there are effective treatments/management.
PS: Bacterial skin infections that require antibiotics are common with atopic dermatitis. It is painful. Itchiness and burning….
Next, ear infections.”

example: “Please visit a board certified veterinarian asap for testing/diagnosis/treatment.
It’s been a year/4 seasons without significant results by the regular vet.
Do not give over the counter meds/supplements or apply ointments, creams that are not intended for veterinary use unless advised to do so by a veterinarian that has examined your dog”.

Example: /forums/topic/hes-got-good-and-environmental-allergies/#post-113364
“Make an appointment with a board certified veterinary dermatologist. It’s not the food. Just my opinion, based on my experience and knowledge”.

Very good information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=environmental+allergies

[Shavon P]

Better to consult with your vet because it is hard to suggest any diet if he has stomach issues. Yes, you can keep him on puppy’s diet because it is digestible as compared to the dog one. Mayhap, your vet would able to suggest some natural supplements and medicine for his recovery. Then, you can start using the normal diet gradually.

[Shavon P]

Yes, many natural supplements especially fish oil works very well. I have tried natural supplements when my dog was gone through neck surgery.

[anonymous]

Yes! I agree.
I have noticed positive results with fish oil supplements recommended by my vet but usually it is in conjunction with other treatments recommended by the treating vet.

There a lot of anti-vet folks out there that are listening to homeopathic sites such as Dogs Naturally Magazine (one of many)and spreading false information.

Thanks for posting.

[Christopher L]

This article is quite a slog and takes some grit to tackle. That said, it seems well-supported, fact-based, and objective. Bottom line: with the possible exception of fish oil (for prophylactic treatment of allergies like skin and coat issues), there is precious little to support the Madison Avenue-concocted nonsense built into claims about pet foods and supplements. (Illustration: There’s little solid science to support the claims of arthritis and joint ailments’ relief from taking glucosamine in humans, and virtually none as relates to pets.) So, read labels, feed your four-legged babies well-balanced diets and treats, get them to exercise (except for cats … unless they can be trained to use a treadmill), and give them a good belly-rub at least twice-a-day.

The Top Ten Pet Supplements: Do They Work?

[Susan]

Hi Mary,
Dogs diet should be balanced, it doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced, start buying tin/can Salmon, tin/can Sardines in Spring water look for the brands with the lowest Sodium/salt %, in the tin Salmon you’ll see bones leave them they just crush up mix thru, start adding 2 spoons of the salmon per meal, veggies & fruit must be peeled, de seed, cut up the veggies/fruit then put thru a blender & blend till they’re nilly a pulp, then I was adding 1 spoon of the veggie/fruit mix to ice cube trays then cover with cling wrap & freeze. Add 2 spoons/cubs per meal, just thaw the veggies/fruit ice cube take out night before put in fridge for next day, buy Omega 3,6,9 oil add 2 squirts per meal for their Omega fatty acids.

Join a few raw feeding face Book groups, what country do you live? in Australia we have Supplements called
“Natural Animal Solutions (NAS) Digestavite Plus Powder” Omega 3,6,9, oil, I was adding 1 teaspoon NAS Digestavite powder + Omega oil only need 1 add to 1 of Patches daily meals to balance his diet cause he cant eat bone or organ meat causes diarrhea.. He has IBD..
Your dogs especially the older dog needs Omega 3 in diet, Glucosamine & Chondroitin for joints & bones..

Follow Dr Judy Morgan DVM on her face book page
https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

Judy has very easy to make balanced raw & cooked diets,
Here’s a few videos just scroll down, her pup loaf is easy to make.. Judy sell supplements look up top “Shop”
Judy has a new book called “Ying & Yang” Nutrition for dogs.
https://www.drjudymorgan.com/category/videos/

[crazy4cats]

Haley cookie-
Most of the dogs that are being diagnosed currently with diet-mediated DCM are NOT low in taurine. The issue isn’t quite as simple as adding taurine-rich supplements. Your recommendations are dangerous. There is something going on with how the BEG diets are being formulated. I can’t think of anything more heartless than to tell someone who has a dog diagnosed with DCM that it is due to feeding a subpar food.

So many people are feeling guilty as it is. And they should not! The companies making these foods are at fault! They are using untested ingredients being formulated by people who do not have the expertise to do so. Then marketing them like they are the best without doing any feeding trials. Our dogs are their guinea pigs and it’s not going well. They are not taking any responsibility. Shame on them!

[Goldens4ever]

Thank you!

I was so overwhelmed the day he was diagnosed I grabbed the chicken and brown rice Blue Buffalo non-grain free. But in looking at the label more closely after reading a ton, it still has several pea derivatives in it, though lower on the list than the grain free. I know they aren’t completely sure what mechanism is at work, but I’m wary of the legumes at this point. So I am thinking of switching again to Purina ProPlan SAVOR ADULT 7+ SHREDDED BLEND CHICKEN & RICE FORMULA.

My vet’s advice was just get him off grain free, but no specific suggestion otherwise. I read the UCDavis/Tufts recommendation to stick with Purina, Hills, Eukanuba or Royal Canin. Very hard to wrap my head around the idea of feeding what I thought last week was garbage and having it be a healthier choice.

I’m hoping with the food change and all the heart meds and supplements that it’ll buy us more time with him. He’s 11 and a half though, so I know that’s already borrowed time for a Golden.

I don’t have Facebook, but I’ve been reading the Q&A the admins put together on taurineDCM.org and it’s been very helpful.

[anonymous]

Do not give supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.

Do not give supplements that are not approved for veterinary use unless prescribed (off label) by a veterinarian that has examined the dog. Many over the counter meds and supplements intended for humans can include ingredients that are toxic to animals.

For stubborn cases like your dogs, there are prescription medications the vet may recommend. I might consider consulting a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/calcium-oxalate-bladder-stones-in-dogs (excerpt below)
How can I prevent my dog from developing calcium oxalate bladder stones in the future?
Dogs that have developed calcium oxalate bladder stones in the past will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets that promote less-acidic and more dilute urine are recommended. Most dogs should be fed a canned or wet diet to encourage water consumption. Dilute urine with a low urine specific gravity (Urine Specific Gravity or USpG less than 1.020) is an important part of the prevention of calcium oxalate bladder stones. In certain cases, medications to lower the urinary pH such as potassium citrate may be required. If the dog is fed a home prepared diet, Vitamin B6 is often added as a supplement. Dogs that repeatedly develop calcium oxalate bladder stones without high blood calcium levels may benefit from hydrochlorothiazide treatment.
Dogs diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones should avoid calcium supplements unless specifically advised by your veterinarian. They should not be fed high oxalate foods such as chocolate, nuts, rhubarb, beets, green beans, and spinach.
In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will typically be performed one month after treatment and then every three to six months for the remainder of the dog’s life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs such as frequent urination, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Unfortunately, calcium oxalate stones have a somewhat high rate of recurrence, despite careful attention to diet and lifestyle.
Contributors: Ernest Ward, DVM

[Andrei C]

Hi dear,
If you are looking for the best dog supplements and natural vitamins online, then I will suggest you Shopbag Sales Wizard Ltd, where you can find the best quality of vitamin supplements at a reasonable price.

Thanks.

[Andrei C]

Yes, supplements are needed, even if you give a well-balanced diet sometimes you might be missing something your dog may not have. I am using Omega 3 Fish Oils 1000mg 90 Capsules for my Dog, which offers a powerful dose of essential fish oils in one handy omega 3 supplements. A few days ago I have purchased it from Shopbag Sales Wizard Ltd, at an affordable price.

[anonymous]

Stop the raw immediately and take the dog to the vet, TODAY. This has been going on for more than a week. She needs treatment by a veterinarian, not the internet. BE HONEST ABOUT THE RAW WITH THE VET.

Give us an update so others will learn from your unfortunate experience.

Whatever you are feeding her does not agree with her and is causing her harm. She may have an obstruction especially if you have been feeding bones and such.
Or not, but something is wrong.
Even cooked chicken has a lot of small sharp bones in it, especially if you haven’t carefully chopped it up.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/actually-raw-chicken-likely-does-lead-to-paralysis-in-dogs/ excerpt below

“Dr. Brady can call me a dupe or lackey of Big Pet Food if he wants (and I suspect he will). The truth is, I am open to the idea that fresh food, even raw food, might have health benefits. However, the evidence is clear that raw has risks, and it is up to the proponents of raw diets to prove there are benefits that make these risks worth taking. Not with anecdotes, faulty logic about what is “natural,” rhetorical assaults on the pet food industry, or mere passion. They should prove it with data, with reliable evidence derived from appropriate scientific research. Until they do so, there is no reason for pet owners to take the risks they deny exist for ourselves, our pets, or our families.”

Yet Another Study Shows the Real Dangers of Raw Diets for Dogs

Read article and comments, use the search engine there to look up topics for more articles.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Nothing is being sold at that site, no dog food, no supplements, no books, no membership fees.

[anonymous]

Who are you quoting?
A homeopathic propaganda site?

@dawne
Listen to your vet, he is the one that has examined your pets and knows them best.
More info here (science based) http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+food

Nothing is being sold at the above site, no dog food, no supplements, no books, no membership fees, etc.

You can use the search engine there to look up topics, the comments are often informative and helpful too.

[David C]

I do not recommend Nutra Thrive. All around negative experience. My boxer became ill shortly after starting the NutraThrive supplements. He began violently hacking as though something was stuck in his throat. After discontinuing NutraThrive, his problems went away about 7 days later.

I notified NutraThrive of his problems and requested to return the 3-month supply. While I waited for response, the company without my approval sent another 3-month supply and billed my credit card. We’re now in a dispute and they’re not honoring their return policy despite my having returned all cans of the product.

Note: The company has refunded 3 cans, but is refusing to reimburse me the additional $132.98 for the 3 cans they delivered without consent. Those 3 cans were also returned. Their tactics are immoral and predatory. I deeply regret having tried this product.

[malinda r]

Our dog is a 5 year old mix who had frequent loose stools that in the past led to more severe diarrhea and then late stage vomiting.

When I first adopted him 4 years ago this happened twice in six months, where he had to go to the vet for an injection to stop the vomiting, and then antibiotics. Over time I realized the kibbles seemed to be hardest on him, and also after some reading felt like he might have colitis.

In the past three years he has not had to visit the vet for illness, or take antibiotics. He does still get occasional diarrhea, but I treat it very quickly/early and it seems to halt the course of being more severely sick.

His diet:

In the am I do a little kibble and a lot of topper, kibbles I purchase are Stella and Chewy raw baked, Fromm pork and applesauce. I use the Stella and Chewy topper. I have tried some others, such as Nature’s Instinct, but it didn’t agree with him.

In the evening I give him canned with a little kibble on top. Currently we are using Health Extension lamb, but he has done well with their turkey also. So overall, not too much kibble.

I add in a probiotic from Mercola at times, herbal digestive supplement from the honest kitchen sometimes, a couple squirts of ultra oil for pets. I have purchased all this from chewy online. I try to not give these things every day, and let his body have a chance to do its own work, but when he seems a little off I add supplements to his food.

When his stool is looser, more frequent I start feeding cooked ground turkey or boiled chicken breasts. I may add in a sweet potato or some plain oatmeal. Usually if I do that for two days and then gradually add topper to the turkey and then topper and kibble to the turkey he is good by day 4 or 5.

When sick they need the antibiotics of course, but over time the antibiotics are so hard on their natural gut flora, so better to catch issues early and treat with the probiotics and other supplements before things get to a point where vet assistance is needed.

I have found when looking at food labels that foods with chicory and also beef flavors are hard on my dog. Also the monthly heartworm has caused some severe diarrhea as well!

It is really rough trying to monitor, theres me or my husband at 3am with a flashlight letting the dog out and then checking out his stool. haha. But monitoring and treating fast has been the best preventative for our dog, it seemed like once he got to a certain stage of sick no home treatment helped.

[anonymous]

This article was written in 2015 I’m sure the numbers are even higher now.

http://time.com/4072487/supplements-cause-more-than-23000-er-visits-a-year/ (excerpt below)

“Dietary supplements in the United States require no safety testing or FDA approval before being sold and marketed. Providing reasons for the use of the ingredients—citing historical use, for instance—is considered enough. If supplements are found to be unsafe, the FDA can remove them from market”.

BTW: Supplements are not medication.

[anonymous]

Quote: “it’s hard to find vets that will attest to the efficacy of non-conventional meds!”

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/

I am sure you can find a homeopathic vet that will sell you supplements without even examining your dog!

They are in business just like traditional vets and need to make a profit too 🙂

Before you go down this road know that some supplements can interfere with the absorption and the effectiveness of prescription meds. Not all supplements are benign and with humans they have caused harm. There is no way of knowing exactly what is in the supplement. Most are just purified water and such.

I’d stick with the regular vet, maybe he can lighten up on the dosages of prescribed meds as your dog becomes stable.

Good luck

[Carol C]

The reviews say “Primal Raw Frozen Grind is a supplement. And because they probably lack some essential nutrients, supplements must not be fed continuously as the sole item in a dog’s diet.”

What are the essential nutrients that are missing?

[Angel Y]

In fact,every dog needs enough nutrients to grow healthy.But i don’t think that probiotics will fit to every breed.As example,i’ve tried to feed my goldendoodle with this supplement for a month,but he became less active and started to sleep more,as usualy.Then,i ‘ve deserved to change his food on “Hill’s adult sensitive stomach & skin”.This food contains a natural supplements and meat protein. You can read more about nutrients here https://petstiger.com/best-dog-food-for-small-breed-puppies/

[Joyce B]

I wouldn’t change their food. Kibble won’t keep their teeth any cleaner and if they won’t eat it you will have all sorts of new problems. Have you tried the water supplements that help keep teeth clean? I use Tropiclean. Best of luck!

[Lilli S]

Hello everyone! I am new to this website, but I see so much good information here so I was hoping you could help me!

I have scoured the internet (with all different search terms) to try and figure out how much I should be feeding my pup (my “Pup” who’s 12!)? We rescued him last year, and he was an owner surrender (she had to move and they wouldn’t allow pets – breaks my heart because he was 11 at the time, and he was definitely treated very well).
I’m sorry I digressed!! He has never liked his kibble – and I have tried EVERYTHING. The vet isn’t concerned about his weight – and as long as he’s doing well, she wasn’t concerned about the kibble.

I decided to cook for him and so far, he loves everything! But I dont know if I’m giving him the proper amounts of food (trust me, I searched and searched). Right now his proteins are chicken, ground lean beef (or a little steak if we have it for dinner), brown rice, mashed sweet potatoes, mashed up fresh carrots, some spinach. I’m sure you all have experience with other food that you can suggest. AND what I really want to know about are these supplements I see that are pretty much whole foods and you just add a protein.

This is all so confusing for me. I was at the point where I was going to buy kibble and grind it up to sprinkle on his food, but then I saw these products (ie. The Honest Kitchen dehydrated food). I’m sorry I’m all over the place, but any of you can decipher my book, I’d be so appreciative!

Just a note – He’s a maltese, 12 years old – very spunky! He just can’t go for long (or even semi short) walks etc. because he has disc issues in his back, and needs to be on rimadyl or he can’t go up the stairs 🙁 .

Thank you so much! Looking forward to any and all suggestions!

[Cody D]

If you mean me I actually thought I responded to your comment my guess is I typed it out on my phone and did not hit submit before closing the tab. I 100% agree that my vet needs to be aware and my local vet has actually been informed of these supplements before though I’m sure you know how that goes as far as relaying that information to current health problems so the information will be repeated to everyone involved. No opinion was gave by the vet about the supplements when the information was originally brought up but I do know she added notes to his chart.

Oh actually I noticed that not only is my comment missing but one of yours as well I think I see what you were hinting at now lol. I will hopefully be getting results on my dog’s biopsy today so hopefully I will have an update in the near future with only good news.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Cody D.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Cody D.

[anonymous]

Oops! I guess someone didn’t appreciate my opinion on supplements.

I do use fish oil for my allergy dog but I use the brand my vet approves of, also I initially will buy it from the vet clinic but then look around online for a better price.

Always check expiration dates. It’s always a bit of a risk because you don’t know if the product has been stored properly plus I have heard that counterfeit meds and supplements are a big business.

[Andrei C]

Hi dear,

There are a number of things that many supplements can do for pets. Pet diet and nutrition must be a major concern for a caretaker because ensuring proper food supplies along with love and affection are the pre-requisites to keep your pet happy and healthy. Choosing the best pet foods for your beloved pet then must be invested with proper research and consideration. Natural health supplements should ideally be provided to your beloved pet in order to ensure that the pet’s health is taken care off in an appropriate manner. It is interesting to note that while the most dog, as well as cat owners, to provide their pets with the desired supplements, the fact remains that very few pet owners are actually aware of the supplements they are buying for their beloved animals.

Thanks & regards,
Andrei Charlies

[Andrei C]

As a pet parent, you want to do all you can to make sure your dog lives a long, healthy life. Before you decide whether or not your dog should take vitamins, you need to know the nutritional essentials all dogs need. Good nutrition starts with what you feed your pet every day and they will either prescribe a prescription dog food or give you a prescription for dog supplements.

Read this article to know about feed dog with supplement…

Specialist Pet Care Products All At One Place – Keep Your Pets Healthy and Happy

[Christie B]

I’ve become so skeptical regarding my dog’s diagnosis of a Lipoma, given the inadequacies of his examination. Even with the needle aspiration, I wonder what they took a sample of because it doesn’t feel like a normal ‘lump’. Since the vet said that surgery wasn’t something that needed to be done in the next 3 months or so (he’s not in pain, and he still walks and runs and play with no issue), I searched the internet for all things lipoma.

I’m not going into this thinking that there’s a magical cure out there nor would I purchase some snake oil claiming to be one. However, I have seen an consensus of various forums and sites suggest changing to a quality kibble that’s lower in fat as well as various supplements that may help remove toxins and increase circulation/metabolism etc. My sister gave me some Frankincense essential oil to apply topically mixed in a carrier oil.

But I’m at a loss when it comes to food and supplements.

He’s 9.5 years old and 119 pounds and he’s an extremely picky eater.

And I know that lipomas just randomly, especially as dogs get older, and there isn’t a precise cause. But I’ve gone back and looked at old pictures and videos to see if I can pinpoint when it may have started to grow. Could it just be a coincidence that it started to appear not long after switching him to a ‘low rated’ commercial food when trying to figure out his food sensitivity issues?

• This topic was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Christie B.

[Christie B]

I’m pretty good with making sure that my dogs see the vet annually for general checks and to make sure their up to date with necessary vaccinations. I was due to go back towards the end of 2018, but it completely slipped my mind.

My 9.5 year old American Bulldog mix has 1 front bowed leg. He’s always had it and he walks and runs fine (he looks gimpy when walking, but it’s how he’s always been and it causes no discomfort). He’s also had issues with food and the environment around him, although we’ve never been able to pinpoint his exact sensitivities. I’m sure you can go back and see my many posts and responses related to his “excessive drooling” and allergies posts.

So I noticed the other day when he was laying on his side (with the bowed leg up) that there appeared to be a large lump behind the leg. I never noticed it or just attributed it to the structure of his frame with the odd leg. So I went back to some old pictures I had, and I didn’t see the lump.

Concerned, I contacted the vet’s office on Saturday to make an appointment to look at the leg, as well as have his annual exam. The receptionist asked what doctor I deal with there. I told her the name of the practice’s owner (Dr. B), who also was the one who I discussed his allergies with (which was something I wanted to ask him about while I was there since the drooling episodes persist at irregular intervals). The earliest appointment was Monday 5:30. I rushed out of work that afternoon, let my dogs out, put the one in the car (I left the other home alone for like the 2nd time ever in the 4 years that I’ve had her)

When I arrived at the vet, I could see other dogs in the lobby. My big guy is loud and disruptive when he sees other dogs that he wants to meet. So I called and told them I was outside to call me when the room was ready. Nearly 30 minutes pass (we walked laps around the building) before we’re ushered into the hottest room ever. The vet tech asks me why we’re here. I explain about the lump and that I want to have his annual exam, etc.

So then we wait even longer and my poor dog, recognizing where he is is now panting and barking and crying. So the door opens and this women walks in. Never met her before, but she certainly wasn’t the vet I booked the appointment with. One of her arms wasn’t through the armhole of her cardigan and instead stuck out of the bottom. So something was up with her. She introduced herself, asked what I was here for.

Now, I understand my dog can be intimidating at first glance. He’s 119 pounds and has a giant pit head. But I never interacted with a vet who wouldn’t approach my dog. Even after telling her he’s 1000% friendly (and mind you I was holding him next to me), she made sure to keep the metal exam table between her and us.

So a vet tech comes in to ‘hold the dog’. The doctor looks at the lump and tells me, without touching it, that it’s a lipoma. I say “are you sure”, then she hesitantly approaches and feels the lump for about 10 seconds and says yes. Then says it’s obviously hampering his movements. I tell her he’s always had the bowed leg and cued up a video on my phone from him running, jumping and playing with my other dog the day before. So she then says it’s not hampering him, but it should be removed. And unfortunately it’s so big that they probably shouldn’t do the surgery and should have a specialist come in to do it. Then she did said that he’s young enough to warrant doing it (like I was automatically going to say no because of the expense). I she knew me like the other vet did, then she would know the well being of my dog is my priority. I ask her to get me an estimate.

I then ask if we can do a needle aspiration to make sure it’s not cancer. Why would I put my dog through a surgery, only to find out it may be cancerous and then make him go through treatments? If it’s cancer, he might still have to have surgery, but maybe they could try other methods to shrink it or kill it first. She says we can “for peace of mind”. And then tells me 30 seconds later that needle aspirations on lumps are highly inaccurate. The sample they take might not have cancer, but it can still be there.

Peace of mind, indeed.

Then she tries to dissuade me from the procedure by saying it will be expensive (but specialized surgery isn’t?)

I tell her to go ahead and do it.

While they try to formulate the price, she sells me on their “wellness package” which includes standard blood labs, urine and stool labs and heartworm test. Other than her 10 seconds spent feeling the lump and listening to his heart with a stethoscope, she didn’t touch my dog. The vet tech felt my dog’s body for lumps. Found a hard one in his chest. Doctor edges closes and feels for 1 second…”not concerned”. I tell them he has a lot of little lumps on his belly along with a bunch of skin tags of various size and color. She wasn’t interested in seeing them.

I’ve had wellness exams every year. The vet normally checks my dog’s ears, mouth, teeth, runs his hands over the dog to looks for lumps or abnormalities, checks over his legs and makes sure his joints are ok, listens to his heart, listen to his lungs/respiration, asks me what he eats, asks about his energy level, talks about any sort of supplements he takes, sometimes takes his temperature and checks the anal glands.

But this lady had her tech do the most cursory exam feeling for lumps on his back and sides and that’s it.

So she leaves the room to get started with prepping for the needle aspiration. Time passes (so much time) and she pops her head in and says that Dr. B (the practice owner) has to be the one who does it because she just had shoulder surgery (thanks for finally telling me) and unfortunately he still has two other patients to see, so can I come back another time? I turn around and tell her that I work every day and I switched my schedule around to be there that day and not for nothing but my appointment was supposed to be with Dr. B in the first place. So she says that she hopes that I wasn’t disappointed in having her treat my dog (I should have said something, but I didn’t). But I made the point that had I had Dr. B like originally scheduled, I wouldn’t have had to wait for him to finish with other people in order to do this test because he would have done the exam and the test and finish with me before seeing anyone else.

I wound up waiting. My poor dog, already traumatized by the blood test puncture was panting and crying and barking. At first, I kept shushing him. But then I just let him bark it out, because maybe they’d be so sick of hearing him that they’d hurry up. Dr. B finally came in, did the needle aspiration and left. In and out in less than 5 minutes.

I had hoped that he was going to come in alone so I could give him a tell him how disappointed I was with the exam and the doctor. But she had come in with him and with the vet techs in the room holding the dog down, I didn’t want to speak in front of them.

It’s been 3 days and I’m still annoyed. I didn’t get to discuss the drooling episodes (she was not interested at all in discussing it since it happens so randomly and the Benedryl and Pepcid help manage it). Who knows if the other lumps are lipomas or something else? I wanted to discuss senior nutrition (but not with her at this point).

I didn’t want to say anything until all the lab tests were in. Everything was good (Cholesterol and Total Protein levels a bit high, but she wasn’t concerned) and the biopsy came back likely to be fatty deposit lipoma.

Anyone else have inadequate vet exams?

And yes, I could have made a separate appointment to do the wellness exam and focus this one on the lump. But my vet knows these visits aren’t cheap and always makes a point of asking if there’s anything else I want to address while I’m there so I don’t have to pay for another visit. This new vet couldn’t be bothered…how do you expect to go to work to thoroughly examine a pet when you only have the use of 1 arm?

[anonymous]

Resent question and answer over here that you may find helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/#comments

March 9, 2019 at 8:45 am
I have a dog weather liver count of 400 Alt for the last 4 months it was 800 Alt when I took her in 6 months ago the vet said she had elevated liver and slow slow heartbeat what should I feed my dog she is on denamarin I was wondering if I should give her Dr Marty’s propower on top of the denamarin or what else would you recommend for her liver and heart

skeptvet says:
March 10, 2019 at 2:28 pm
I would recommend finding out what the problem is through appropriate diagnostic tests rather than using unproven supplements without knowing what they are supposed to be treating. If your regular vet is stumped, consider seeing an internal medicine specialist.
Good luck!

[Beth C]

Did you find a home made recipe and supplements. I would be interested in what homemade diet you came up with?

[. .]

I had been feeding my three dogs Hill’s Science Diet Canine “i/d” dry, and then mix of dry and canned (also i/d)…I have been feeding my animals (cats & dogs) only Hill’s Science Diet (i/d, m/d). No table scraps no snack…very strict and consistent diet.

I don’t believe in giving my animals food items that are not meant for good health. Yet, all have developed diabetes, and/or cancer, and/or kidney disease and/or urinary dysfunction at much earlier ages than what would be expected. So here’s what…I no longer trust Hill’s Science diet — particularly the dry food.

I first eliminated the dry for my cat, out of desperation after months of heavy, I mean HEAVY, urination — replacing the cat litter every 48 hours because of major urination, complete litter saturation. One evening I only served the wet food, and to my hope, prayers, and pleasant surprise…starting the VERY NEXT DAY, the heavy urination STOPPED!

That was about 2 months ago, and he’s been fine ever since. He still has diabetes, though (4 units insulin/day). For now. But I am working on changing his diet further — getting as far away from any Hill’s Science Diet as possible, or any conventional pet food. Wet or dry.

Same with my dogs, I now have them completely off Hill’s. I switched to Just Food for Dogs (formerly known as True Food for Dogs). It’s too late for one of my dogs whom I just had down about 3 weeks ago — cancer. But I have my two others and they are doing well. But…

One of my dogs, having sever symptoms of kidney disease, urinary dysfunction (constant thirst lots of urination), and an insatiable appetite…all seemed like signs of diabetes and/or kidney disease — but, his blood work indicated all was fine. So what could it be? Well, it turns out his calcium, sodium, phosphorus, and of course his electrolytes, and many other things in his blood work results reported dangerously low. “The lowest I’ve ever seen in my career,” stated our 17 year veteran of veterinary medicine stated.” (Oh, BTW my dog had lost a lot of weight over a short period of time, where I could see his ribs and hip bones very prominently.

Then vet concluded from the above indications that it must to be Diabetes Insipidus, “a condition that results from insufficient production of the antidiuretic hormone (ADH), a hormone that helps the kidneys and body conserve the correct amount of water. Normally, the antidiuretic hormone controls the kidneys’ output of urine.” But we needed further examination to confirm.

So we got on schedule to take my dog in to get an ultrasound procedure ($350-$500). It was a couple of weeks away before I could afford the additional cost for confirming or knowing the true problem. If the ultrasound did not reveal anything…a CT scan would be required to check for brain tumor. (I know. Very serious.)

Meanwhile, I went to Just Food for Dogs (JFFD) and had several long talks with them as I’m a very inquisitive and discerning consumer. Once I was satisfied with their answers about the product, how it works and why, I picked up my first batch of the fresh ready-made food as well as the supplement powder and the recipe so I that could start making the food myself at home — and save money.

Just under two weeks later, I asked the vet to take another blood panel — just like the previous one to compare if he was getting worse or improving. When she received the results, our vet called me and stated, “It’s like a miracle, all his levels are up to very healthy normal indicators…what did you do?” I told her we’d changed our dogs’ diet to the JFFD, and she said, “Keep doing what you’re doing. Don’t change a thing!” (BTW, he’s filling out, I look forward to weighing him again in a couple of weeks.)

Do you like to cook? I do. (I’m a bit of a foodie.) If you are a person who appreciates quality ingredients (Did I mention, this simple and particular recipe for my dogs’ age, calls for fresh ground lamb, cauliflower, carrots, blueberries, brown rice, yum! Of course, adding the powdered supplements to make my dogs’ meals whole and complete)…if you care about your animal’s comfort and well being, I highly recommend you consider making your dog’s food yourself with the proper, professional, guidance, and supplemental ingredients (powder).

I’m also going to look further into Nutra Thrive as a possible additional supplement. It looks very interesting. But I plan to be careful to not overdo. Will seek the proper guidance.

In summary, I am getting as far away from Hill’s as I can, and will be switching to the Feline version from JFFD very soon, hoping I can get my sweet little cat (actually, he’s a big tabby with the heart of a kitten) on the healthier food source, too.

One thought I’d also like to share: Just one thing I don’t agree with from the video and the veterinarian who created Nutra Thrive… I think his statement was in the effort to be encouraging, make it sound easy — to simply NOT change from whatever junky food (be it grocery store, pet store, or vet office source) dog owners are currently feeding their animals. I just DON’T agree with that at all. Why? It pretty common sense to me.

Just by what the vet in the video says regarding how pet foods are processed (super high temperatures, no nutrients left, for example), and just by my reading the ingredients, and how the vet in the video states conventional food makes dogs look, feel, act, or eliminate poorly are but a few key reasons for me to stay clear of anything I feed my pets that I don’t have control over — hence, cooking it myself, with proper ingredients and guidance.

[anonymous]

Quote: “There is nothing that says you can’t do both.”

That’s not always true. Supplements can interfere with the absorption and effectiveness of some prescription medications.

Best to check with the vet that is treating your dog first before acting on stuff that you read on the internet.

[Nancy W]

We used the diet as well as the rest of the supplements for almost a year during treatment. I truly believe it helped improve the quality of my girl’s life as well as slow the progression of MCT. I couldn’t have been any happier with the information and assistance I received from the book, staff and the closed FaceBook group.

To be clear, Dr. Dressler’s protocol doesn’t lead anyone down a homeopathic rabbit hole. The book is very clear about all the cancer treatment options there are out there, which includes diet and supplements and encourages readers to take a comprehensive approach to the treatment of cancer in dogs. The Dog Cancer Survival Guide thoroughly explains all the types of cancers out there as well as what treatment options there are from chemo to holistic. His partner in writing the book is a well know Oncologist. There is nothing that says you can’t do both.

[anonymous]

@ Christie B

Check out Fromm Classic Adult https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-classic-adult-dog-food
as a base, most veterinarians approve.
Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach is good too.

PS: Forget about raw, forget about supplements, listen to your vet

Suggestions for a topper:
I boil a small chicken once a month in a huge pot, nothing added, then let it simmer for 3 to 4 hours.
Let it cool for a couple of hours.
When cool enough to handle, remove the chicken and debone, be very careful and throw out small pieces and such as tiny bones could be in there. When in doubt, throw out.
Put the pot of broth in the fridg on cold temp for 24 hours, the fat will rise to the top so that you can easily remove it.
Separate the broth in individual containers or freezer baggies (3 or 4 day supply each) store in freezer.
Do the same for the chicken meat.
Its a bit of work and messy, but cost effective, and you know for sure that there are no added ingredients.
The store bought has preservatives and salt. The more expensive brand in the organic section might be a little better.

[Christie B]

Thanks.

I’ve been researching different ways to introduce and transition to raw (or at the very least away from kibble to something canned or refrigerated). Cost is killer. Two dogs, weighing 120 lbs and 45-50 lbs, equate to a lot of food.

My vet is 110% against raw diets, even long term cooked diets. He’s all Purina Pro Plan, all the time. He doesn’t even like that I’ve given my dogs supplements since normal kibble has everything they’d possible need.