[Chuck]

I know I am breaking forum etiquette here as there is a post from April that seems to be asking basically the same thing, however at this point I am just overwhelmed with information that I just can’t skim through anymore articles or blogs. So please explain it to me like I’m five!
I have a 6 month old Brittany that I have been feeding Wellness Core and TOTW kibble since we got her at the end of April. She is a super picky eater and it has become progressively harder to get her to eat her kibble without starting to “spruce” it up with other foods. We had originally thought she would just become distracted so we started taking it away after 20 minutes or so but I think she really just doesn’t like kibble.
So I started researching other foods and I came across all of this information about Raw Feeding, however there is a ton of information and I really do not know where to start. I am hoping someone can give me some good links or straight to the point help, I addition to knowing I am also going to have to sell this to the wife.

1. Is it better to get a premade mix of raw food online or buy meats from the supermarket or meat market? Or is it better to have a mix?

2. Is ground or whole better?

3. I keep seeing people talking about feeding bones, including chicken bones… I was always told that chicken bones are dangerous? This is going to be the one that the hardest to get my wife on board with.

4. Do you need to add supplements to these meals? If so are they included in the premade mixes or am I adding them?

5. What is the best site for ordering?

6. Does someone have a schedule or process I can literally follow to the letter?

Sorry, I am sure this has been answered over and over again but I would really appreciate the help. I am not too concerned about the cost as Wellness and Core are not cheap, however if I can pre-make these and feed her in the morning because we are often in a rush and it’s so hard to get her to eat kibble before we leave.

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[Hound Dog Mom]

Why are you feeding a multivitamin? If the dog is eating a balanced commercial food a multivitamin isn’t necessary and, in fact, I wouldn’t suggest giving one. I would instead opt for a whole food supplement such as Nature’s Logic All Food Fortifier, Wysong’s Wild Things, Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food/Herb Supplements, etc. If you’re using a multivitamin to balance a homemade diet I’d opt for a human multivitamin.

[scottNY]

Hello – maybe this is elsewhere, but can anyone recommend a good dog multivitamin for a 65 lb, 8 month old pit mix? I currently use the “Vetri-Science Laboratories Chicken Canine Plus Supplement for Pets” which seems good and he only needs 2 per day, but I would appreciate some advice.
Thanks!

[JLezinsky]

Hi Everyone,

I gave up on trying to find a pre-made raw after the Sirius food had all sorts of negative issues. Since then I have been trying to figure out the best way to make my own. Here is what I am planning on doing to start with. I would love to get any feedback because I really respect the knowledge of everyone here.

a.m.
Ground Beef/Tripe/Organs and Bone
(alternating between the Tripe Super Mix from MPC and Ground Beef/Organs/Tripe/Bone mix Hare Today)
Eggs (every other day)
Sardines (opposite the eggs)
Krill Oil (Mercola Liquid Pump) (every other day)
Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin/Herbal Supplement and SpiruGreen Superfood (rotating between the two)
Multi Vitamin (½ tablet daily)
Coconut Oil
Turmeric

Veggie/Fruit Mix a few times a week

p.m.
RMB’s
Rotating between chicken necks, back, feet and turkey necks and backs.
Also occasionally adding some chicken gizzards, hearts and livers.

I am still nervous about calcium/phosphorus ratios and vitamins. Is a multi-vitamin ok with this? If so what multi-vitamin tablet (so I can split it) would you recommend? Please let me know if this looks balanced or if I should add or adjust things.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate any help.

[theBCnut]

First question. Do you feed at the same time every day? How many hours after feeding does this occur? Have you tried giving multiple small meals? This does sound like a digestion issue. He sounds like he is having some kind of stomach pain.

Try multiple small meals. Try adding digestive enzymes to each meal. Try giving him a probiotic supplement. Try feeding at a different time. Try feeding at a time when he will not be able to play afterwards. Try adding water to his food. Try a grain free food.

It may take some detective work to figure this out. Sorry I don’t have any definite answers.

[somebodysme]

How long has she been on Nutrisca? It will take a while on a new food for the crud to get out of their system. I’ve been dealing with an allergy dog too. Your story sounds a lot like mine and my dog started off in a low end type food Pro Plan and I wanted a better food so bought Blue Buffalo and then all he(( broke loose. I kept trying new food changing the proteins and she just got worse and worse with rashes and red ears and raw paws etc. We are on NB potato and rabbit for three weeks now and things are improving but not perfect yet. She also will break out suddenly out of the blue. I’m telling myself it is what they call a “healing crisis”. Supposedly that’s all normal. I will tell you that she looks better now than she has since I switched her off Pro Plan. I’m assuming you took her off the Rachel Ray stuff because you wanted healthier? Or was she having problems on that? On Pro Plan, my dog was scratching a little but had a watering eye and that was pretty much all. Then we finally realized that all the foods she was allergic to had only one common ingredient and it is PEAS. I know she is allergic to other things too though like rawhide and cow bones.

I would suggest that you give her only one food until you find that it is OK. I would also suggest to not give any of those supplements you mentioned because right now you have no idea what she’s allergic to. My dog reacted badly to spirulina! If she has yeast then keep the probiotic. Then once you know the food is OK, add ONE new supplement at a time until you know it’s OK and no reaction. Any of these things can cause problems for a sensitive dog. She could easily be allergic to salmon oil or coconut oil or that glucosamine. Honestly the only thing that I can give my dog without it causing a problem, that I have tried, is her human grade probiotic.

If your dog was NOT allergic to the Rachel Ray food then look at the ingredients and try and find a better quality food with the same basic ingredients. Like if it has chicken then you know that chicken was not the issue. What I have learned from having a dog with allergies is that you can’t just say “oh that food has 5 stars it great for my dog”. It just doesn’t work like that. These dogs have a whole new set of rules when it comes to what to feed.

[theBCnut]

Because her gut is used to a food like RC, she may not have the probiotics or be producing the enzymes needed to digest the higher protein. For a couple weeks, give her a digestive supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes. Her body should adjust, but there is a chance that she may continue to need the extra help.

[Codex]

I’m worried about people saying that fish oil supplements can cause vitamin A surplus over time.

It made Codex’s coat turned shinier and absolutely no dry skin–fingers crossed it’ll stay like that.

I’m wondering if the fish oil is not a long term solution to keeping her skin and coat silky. I suspect it might be masking food allergy symptoms(surf and turf makes her scratch)?

Any suggestions of a supplement I can use instead of fish oil?

[Duke The Boxer]

^^ to sara i had my puppy on welness core and he enjoyed the food a lot and his coat was always very nice and soft. I recently just finished the bag so i rotated to the nature’s variety rabbit meal and my boy loves it even more! He absolutely devours all the food and his stools have been very good. Im no expert but id say start giving your guy some coconut oil supplements and maybe look into a turmeric supplement. Maybe HDM can further chime in

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi RescueDaneMom –

There’s no need to add additional muscle meat to Primal grinds – all have balanced C:P ratios except for the beef and buffalo which actually have more phosphorus than calcium and thus should be fed with some RMBs. You would want to add vitamin e, vitamin d (such as cod liver oil), omega 3′ and a whole food supplement. I would also recommend feeding some canned oysters once or twice a week (high in zinc and selenium) and some ground nuts or seeds (like sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds) a few times a week (high in manganese). Yogurt or kefir is rich in probiotics and can make a good addition as well. Cod liver oil is rich in vitamin a but there’s really no need to worry about vitamin a levels – if the dog is getting liver (which it will be if its eating the grinds) and fruits/vegetables it will be getting plenty of vitamin a. Also keep in mind that the vitamin d requirements are 500 IU per kg (or approx. (227 IU per pound) on a dry matter basis – one lb. of raw food will provide around 0.3 lb. dry matter. Therefore, you would need around 68 IU per pound of raw food (minimum). I give my girls each a capsule of Carlson Cod Liver oil daily which has 250 IU vitamin d per capsule – they also get a some lower levels from beef liver, eggs, dairy. A glandular isn’t necessary, I think it can be beneficial though.

[pugmomsandy]

RescueDaneMom,

I don’t use the grinds, so no advice there. I was just going to suggest something easier and less time consuming to begin with – Urban Wolf, Grandma Lucy’s or Honest Kitchen premixes. You just add meat and some oil. There’s also a product called CarnivoreRaw (from Young Again Pet Food) that you add to meat. It’s a raw food supplement with everything in it. All you do is use meat and oil and the powder. That’s what I used this last time around in my batch of raw.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi All,

I have been lurking on DFA for a few months now. Originally I was trying to find the best dry food for my dog, then I started getting into dehydrated and freeze dried. Now I’m looking at frozen raw. For the past two months I have been doing 2/3 premium 5 star kibble with 1/3 frozen raw (complete formulas from Primal or Stella & Chewy’s). I didn’t know if my dog would go for it so that’s why I started this way. Now I want to move to full raw. I will admit to being lazy when it comes to this process. The easiest thing for me to get hold of right now is Primal grinds and complete formulas (Primal and S&C). A lady in the next town owner has become a retailer and sells it out of her house and adds very little markup.

I have a 7.5 year old Great Dane named Max that I got from a rescue. He is 155 pounds, is currently eating 1800-1900 calories per day, and is in perfect condition. I have fed him 3 meals per day since I got him because I could and it works for him. I want to do Primal grinds with additions for two of his meals and a complete formula for his third meal. I am most concerned with balancing his two meals of Primal grinds. From reading I have gathered that these grinds can be high in bone content as well as fat so it is important to add extra muscle meat (heart, boneless meats) and protein (eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon, canned oysters, tripe?). I also plan on adding yogurt or kefir, sprouted seeds, fish oil, vitamin E, HDM’s superfood blend and veggie/fruit/herb puree, and 3 cloves of garlic 3x/week.

I have a few questions/ things I wanted to double check. He would need about 3200mg combined EPA/DHA, 300iu vitamin E, 200iu vitamin D/lb of food, 3 tsp of superfood blend daily, right? I couldn’t find what the appropriate amount of vitamin A was? If I use cod liver oil for the vitamin D, will that provide sufficient vitamin A? Also, would it be good to use a glandular supplement too? Lastly, assuming I have covered everything, a multivitamin/mineral isn’t needed correct?

Thank you in advance for your help. And special thanks to Hound Dog Mom for posting menus and such great, detailed information.

[theBCnut]

Triplets Mom

A lot of us here feed raw so feeding bones is normal for us. I don’t worry about salmonella in my dog at all, I just take precautions for us humans. I also feed raw rib bones, they are softer than marrow bones, but still take some chewing. Mine really like turkey necks and they have a lot of cartilage, so act as a joint supplement too.

[treizi]

Thanks for everyone’s responses so far!

So when you mention low fat, are there certain #’s he should be staying under when looking for food? I’m not sure where Lotus falls on the calorie scale, I generally have just been concerned with grain and recalls. I’ll add that he’s a good weight, no concerns have ever been stated by the vet either and he doesn’t get additional treats beyond the occasional item off the cutting board from a salad dinner or dried sweet potato pieces about once a week.

Is there a digestive enzyme that you’d recommend as well? And is there a supplement that might assist with a reoccurring slipped disc or aggravation?

Just as an update, his stools are back to normal and he’s mostly in nice shape as well. All bulging in his belly seems to have gone away, though his back does seem to randomly bother him. He’ll go up on his hind legs without complaint (on his own, I’d keep him on all 4’s if I could) but he seems aware of back pain at times as his ears will drop and he’ll tense if you rub back there. He has reinjured himself in the past (much worse than how he acts now) and we’ll crate, prevent jumping, keep him quiet for about 2 weeks (per vets instructions) and that works, but if I can help build him up in any way with supplements, I’m more than willing to do so.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi there everyone. I know this is a puppy thread, and I do have a GSD puppy ( with monstrous paws so I knew he’ll be large!), but I do have a question that maybe someone here could answer. Aside from my puppy, I also have his mom, a 3 yr old GSD. She’s been eating the Earthborn Coastal Catch, but I can’t seem to get her to put weight on. During gestation and nursing, I fed her Earthborn Puppy Vantage. She used to be around 68 lbs. I weighed her yesterday she’s down to 59 lbs. I spoke to my vet, which also monitored her during pregnancy, and she told me that maybe I need to try something with grains in it. She’s been fed a grain free diet pretty much all her life, except when I fed her the Puppy Vantage. The vet told me she’s probably just taking longer to recover from nursing, as she didn’t find anything abnormal. She also told me to try adding Missing Link, to add vitamins or something like that. My dog isn’t bony, but you can tell she is underweight. I was thinking of switching both my GSD’s to Fromm Large Breed puppy. Maybe the puppy formula has more calories and fat so she can gain her weight back? I don’t know. If anyone can give me some advice, I’d really appreciate it. Food? Supplements? Thanks a million!

[Spiritpaws]

I am going to jump in here, as my company BiostarEQ, which is a whole food equine supplement company, recently launched our Canine line. http://www.BiostarEQ.com

Probiotic Miracle appears to have a very good CFU content (2 Billion CFU’s per serving) and are using a nice variety of microorganisms, particularly L. Salivarius (specific to the oral cavity) and L. Reuteri, which is getting a lot of action in European studies for its benefits to the small intestine. The formula does include prebiotics as well. Probiotic Miracle claims to be GMO Free (hopefully they will submit their formula for GMO free certification).

Naturvet, has a much lower CFU of microorganisms, and only lists one active microorganism: Bacillus Coagulans. However, it does contain digestive enzymes, and I would wait for Enzymesforpet to chime in on how therapeutically active the count is on the enzymes in this product.

If you are at all concerned with GMOs, you would probably not want to feed Naturvet, as it has several GMO ingredients in the base (vegetable oil, brewers yeast, papaya,lecithin). The dried fermentation product and solubles are possibly GMO. and the Bacillus Coagulans might be GMO, depending on if it was cultured from GMO yeast, or GMO bovine milk source.

While I am no expert on the micro biome, the research on the micro biota at large is pointing to the necessity of multi strains, capable of colonizing the entire GI tract, oral cavity, and respiratory tract. Colonization rates for canines is still speculative, but the range appears to be 1 billion CFUs to 5 billion CFUs (depending on the health or GI tract imbalance). Each dog, like each person, and each horse, has its own unique blend of micro biota, which is why one probiotic formula doesn’t work the same in every dog.

[Pugsonraw]

Hi Sandy,

I was once searching for a joint supplement on the ONP website and it was the exact same ingredients/percentages of a brand name one, although I can’t remember what it was.

I’ve placed an order and going to test drive it. The nibblets and packaging almost look very similar to the new NV instinct packaging that I saw at the pet store.

I’ve had both good and back experiences with ONP. I know they let you return their private label items if you are not satisfied and I’ve done this before.

I will have to check out the ONP nude good review. I think I’ve only looked at the Max meat review.

[lizbethc41]

Hi,
My dog will be 10 in Nov. He had a malignant fibrosarcoma removed in ’09. Since then he’s had issues with intermittent diarrhea.
His food history:
He has always been an extremely picky eater, going ‘on strike’ often
Fed Iams until he was 3.5 (My first dog & I didn’t know any better, mea culpa)
As a blood cancer survivor myself, I switched our household to an organic one.
Switched to Castor & Pollux Organix dry that I added a small amount of organic chicken, turkey or beef w/occasional wild caught salmon or duck to entice him to eat it. He did great on this until his health issue arose.
After his surgery I started adding pumpkin & probiotics (from Only Natural Pet) to his meals, but he still would get colitis type diarrhea every now & then. So I decided to try cooked homemade.
I had a vet nutritionist diet done up for him (Dr Susan Wynn). I use only organic foods, either turkey, chicken or beef w/either oatmeal, quinoa or sweet potato & then some kind of veggie, usually carrots, cauliflower or green beans. The individual supplements worry me because of the fish oil which he’s never done well on so I use flaxseed oil plus bone meal, choline, canola oil, lite salt & Centrum.
I decided to keep a commercial organic canned food to make sure his nutritional needs were met & for the times where I may not have a homemade meal available. I started w/ByNature Organics canned turkey until I realized it has carrageenan (sp?). I switched to Party Animal grain free organic. I’ve tried the 2 chickens & the turkey.
Problem is he still doesn’t like commercial dog food, sometimes he’ll eat it, sometimes not & he still has some soft poos. So started adding Animal Essentials digestive enzyme/probiotics & Metamucil (on the vet’s advice) I had a second diet done up for him from Balance It, but I haven’t used it yet because it seems like it has a LOT of carbs compared to his other vet diet (2.5 cups of quinoa to 6 oz of turkey) & 6 5/8 tsp of Metamucil! That’s over 2 TBS! I had been gradually increasing the Metamucil again on the vet’s advice as she said there would be Metamucil in the Balance It diet, but 2 tsps bound him up for over a day, so there’s no way I’m giving him over 2 TBS (which is more than the max for a human adult). He’s not a big water drinker, another concern for the Metamucil.
I’m sorry this is such a long post, but I really am trying to find the right diet for my fur baby. I’m thinking of cooking his Dr Wynn diet w/out the individual supplements, adding ONP’s senior multi-vitamin, the Animal Essentials & mixing it in w/the Party Animal, keeping the proteins the same (turkey w/turkey, beef w/beef etc).
Any thoughts, opinions & advice would be appreciated!
Btw, he’s a German Shepherd mix, 48 lbs, body score of 5/9 I don’t use chemical pesticides on him, just Heartgard monthly.

[pugmomsandy]

Abady granular food has over 800 calories per cup. You can add this to his current food. You can also add calories by adding some fat like coconut oil or other oil. If he eats 14 meals a week, then 2.8 of those meals can be unbalanced. That might be easier than trying to figure out 20% of one meal.

[theBCnut]

If you are adding 20% or less you don’t need to worry about balancing the vitamins and minerals, but if you are adding more than 20% you do need to make sure it is balanced. A leg quarter would definitely be more than 20% of 2 cups + 1/2 can. You do have a little leeway with that as long as your calcium/phosphorus ratio is OK. I’m not sure if a leg quarter would need a little extra meat added or not, it would be pretty close. I would still add a half dose of some kind of animal derived omega 3, maybe a half dose of vit D and E, and some kind of superfood at the very least.

Hound Dog Mom would be a good one to get her opinion on this.

[HilaryFarmer]

I have been feeding Orijen Regional Red ($90 per 29#) for about 2 months now and I’m very happy with it, I feel I can trust the company and my dogs are doing well on it, but I cant afford to feed enough of it to my pit mix (60# 2 yr old). He is eating 2 cups (900kcal) plus a half can of EVO (230kcal) wet food and feels a little too bony for me. I was thinking about adding RMB’s like chicken leg quarters to cheaply boost the amount of food he is getting.

My questions is would a leg quarter a day add a substantial amount of calories and is there anything I can add to boost the calories. I only have a small fridge being that I stay with my mom, but I can do things like eggs yoghurt etc along with the meat.

Although I would love to feed raw exclusively to all three of my dogs I work 8-16 hour days 5 days a week and have my younger brother walking and feeding and I dont trust his ability to feed anything other than my pre-set up bowls of kibble/supplements ;)So I would feed the raw meal in the morning before I go to work and he would get his kibble mix in the evening.

I have no problem keeping weight on my neutered dachshunds and they are actually slightly heavier than I like to keep them.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[charlie]

treizi

I’m sorry to hear your pup isn’t doing well!

The orange diarrhea can be nothing or it can be an indication of something serious. If it hasn’t gone away yet or if it comes back I would do a full blood workup to check liver, kidneys, blood cells and more. If it’s something serious the sooner it’s diagnosed and treated the better.

X-rays don’t really show slipped (herniated or bulging) discs. An x-ray might show a decreased space between the vertebrae but an MRI is the way to go to see the actual discs.

I hope everything works out and give your pup a hug for me!!!

[theBCnut]

Not that probiotics are bad, because they are good, but I think your dog could benefit from digestive enzymes, especially if this is a borderline or chronic pancreatitis problem. You may want to start Koda on a low fat diet and cut out any treats that aren’t low fat. And if it could be his back again, work at getting every single ounce of extra weight off of him. Just one caution, a lot of low fat diets reduce protein too, and that is bad, because they increase carbs a lot.

[theBCnut]

They don’t have to add supplemental vitamins if they are putting in whole foods that contain those vitamins, so I would still be wondering what you need to add. If you are still feeding half kibble or another raw that is complete and balanced, then I wouldn’t worry. But as a stand alone, I want to know that everything is in there. I would use it, but I am still feeding half kibble.

[Anonymous]

FYI Aspergillus niger and Aspergillus oryzae are species of fungi that are used as source organisms to derive enzymes from. Many digestive enzyme supplements come from fungal sources. Fungal enzymes are often stable over a much wider pH range than, for example, the animal-sourced enzymes. The enzymes may be on your labels as something like “Dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract” because of AAFCO labeling requirements. http://enzymesolutionsforanimalhealth.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/dried-aspergillus-what/

[Anonymous]

I don’t have brand recommendations, but even while on the same food, adding an enzyme supplement can help more of the food be utilized. When it is more completely digested, less will end up in the poop.

Also, an interesting little article… http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-poop-on-dog-diet-digestion/

[treizi]

So I’m coming here in hopes for some suggestions to perhaps adding in some supplements for my pup that isn’t doing well. Koda is a 9yr old Papillon that suddenly started showing signs of a very bloated, tight, painful tummy the other day. He also had runny yellow/orange stools. We went to the vet who cleared him of any signs of blockage, but he’s also outruled any extra gas, inflammation and isn’t quite suspecting pancreatitis because he’s not vomiting though blood tests weren’t done this time. He’s been prescribed a bland diet, add in some probiotics and wait for improvement. He’s slowly improving but I’m suspecting he might be having some digestive trouble so I’m considering making some additions to his diet. Now several months ago he went in to the vet (I was living elsewhere so it wasn’t my regular one) because he was once again in pain, but this time hunching over as if he was in a bunch of discomfort and quite lethargic. Needless to say, I’m a bit sick of the very large vet bills no answers and being sent home to boil some chicken and rice and wait a week or two.

He’s also had a slipped disc in his back which required surgery and that’s been suspected to be a possible cause of this pain currently, though no bulging or issues appeared on the xray confirming this. I’ll also mention that a few months ago, Koda would somewhat randomly get extremely loud belly “gurgles”. We’re talking loud enough to hear from another room, coming out of a 8lb dog. It’s only happened 2-3 times and doesn’t accompany any signs of lethargy or pain. He was completely normal at these times.

I’ve seen a lot of recommendations for Swanson’s Dr. Langer and Probiotic Miracle, as well as a mention of Mercola, though I’m not sure which people are using? I’d also like to add in some type of joint supplement, to assist with his previous back issues. I should mention that I’m currently feeding Lotus grain free duck (switched after the vet trip from several months ago – previously on Natural Balance Sweet Potato & fish..suspected originally that this was an issue because it was a new bag, now I’m not so sure). Also, when he’s up and being his normal self, he’s a very healthy and happy little dog that isn’t showing any signs of age.

Sorry for the novel – I’m somewhat hoping that maybe someone else has gone through a similar situation as well!

[emchide]

Hello again everyone,

I’m not sure this will be of more than speculative interest to most of you, unless you also live in the the greater Baltimore metropolitan area, but I think I’ve found a very appealing raw food source at a great price point. Any insights or thoughts will be appreciated, but it seems this company at the moment isn’t shipping product at all and is only available locally. Nonetheless, I am excited by the affordability/quality intersection as I see it.

Dogs Gone Wild

Currently offering one pound chubs, beef marrow bones, turkey necks, and chicken necks at one of the smaller, locally-owned pet stores (Howl, Dogma, and Bark!)- I have two others to explore and see if more variations are available. The PetCo and PetSmart stores nearby don’t carry DGW.

Chicken: 70% chicken / chicken bone
20% vegetables – broccoli, kale, carrots
10% organ meats
$2.50/lb

Turkey: 70% turkey / turkey bone
20% vegetables – green beans, carrots, yellow squash
10% organ meats
$2.65/lb

Beef: 70% beef / beef bone
20% vegetables – butternut squash, green beans, kale
10% organ meats
$3.05/lb

Duck: 70% duck / duck bone
20% vegetables-butternut squash, carrots, zucchini
10% organ meats.
$4.00/lb

Lamb: 80% lamb / lamb bone
20% vegetables – zucchini, carrots, parsley
**was out of stock**

Chicken & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 72%
Turkey & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 76%
Beef & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 70%
Duck and Veggie Mix. Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 75%
Lamb & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 11% Crude Fat (min) 25% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 61%

When thawed, the grinds look very appealing and fresh – softer and looser than my only comparisons, the FreshPet Vital refrigerated chubs which are firmer in texture and ~$6.00/lb.

I expect a significant contributor to their pricing involves not having supplemental vitamins included and thus not being certified as a complete food or whatnot. I’m curious about the perspectives of the knowledgeable members here.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by emchide.
• This topic was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by emchide.

[albertboh]

We only use raw-food with our bulldog now. She was having a ton of issues with the grain-filled dog foods that my mom typically bought her (gas, bloating, infections/rashes). I tried all sorts of stuff to change it up too, like adding probiotic supplements to her diet, as well as digestive enzymes. There are a few brands out there are specifically for pets and not just human-grade stuff. We also mixed yogurt in with her dog food helped to help with some yeast issues issues we had. It’s our own special “cocktail” but it seems to work for her brilliantly. It took us forever to find the right mix, but now we are thrilled and she seems much happier. :O)

[mdbd]

So we have adopted a wonderful senior (12-year old) mini poodle. (I’ve always been allergic to cats but had a dog years’ ago). She was in a kill shelter for about a week then with a large dog rescue facility for 2 months. She had been on a generic kibble (apparently) with her original home. and the rescue. Our first day yesterday was absolutely fine, but today she had her first hair-cut and I noticed just what dry, flakey skin she has and her hair is quite dry. She has many flakes coming off and, of course, with all the flakes coming off – I’m now sneezing and my eyes are watering like crazy – as are my son’s. Other than the skin and coat, she is in wonderful health.

I am absolutely NOT going to give up on this old lady so I really need some helpful suggestions for foods and supplements as they have come a long way since I last had a pet.

a) What is the best dry dog food for a senior (does this equate to grain free or something else)? Cost is way less important than quality.
b) Are there any particular ingredients that are really bad for senior poodles and/or any that are really beneficial?
c) Should she stay on kibble given she has always had it or would you suggest wet?
d) Is there any dog food or supplement that will alleviate her dry skin and prevent the flaking? If so, liquid or tablet form?
e) This may sound crazy – but is there any food or supplement that helps decrease allergens in a pet to assist an owner who is reacting badly to the pet?
f) Is there anything (food or supplement) to assist in helping the dog become less smelly?
g) Is there any topical cream or bath wash that would assist her?

We’re an allergen-free house generally because of my allergies so wood floors, no drapes, etc.

Any help/advice would REALLY be welcome! Thanks!

[pacer1978]

Patty: Then should I discontinue with the Langer’s FoS probiotic? I’ve been giving it to my dogs every 2-3 days. They weren’t having any digestive issues before..but, I started giving them supplements based off what I’m reading here. The enzymes make sense when feeding kibble and I started both over the last month.

I’m also not sure if this is coincidence with the supplements I’ve been giving over the last month, but wanted to run it by everyone on the forum that may be reading. Mia started to get a bit of diarrhea last night. I also noticed what appeared to be a little bit of blood in her stool this morning. I’m not as worried now as I was this morning after googling some causes. Some are as minor as a change in diet, which I just switched them from Solid Gold MMillenium to Earthborn Holistic. Perhaps I switched too fast because it stated that could be one of the causes. My other two seem fine, however. I know blood in stool could be a minor or serious issue, so I will keep an eye on her and see. But, now I’m concerned with reading that the Langer’s FOS may not be a good brand? Everything they get daily is below. Since this just started happening recently, the only thing that has changed in the last few days (since Sunday/Monday) is the food.

Swanson’s digestive enzymes
Coconut Oil
Dasuquin (joint/hip)
Fish oil (Pure Alaska Omega™ Salmon Oil) sold at Costco
Langer’s 15-strain FOS probiotic

[Jagger2012]

I have my 14 month old lab “Jagger” and my 15 week old German Shepherd “Keesha”. Keesha was taken in a few days ago for her last set of shots and I was discussing with my vet that Keesha is a poop eater! Bad! She will not eat her poop but my labs. I have watched her out the window following him around and when he hunches up to poop she will stand right there and eat it as it hits the ground or catch it as it falls and eats it! I am not kidding! I know the whole dog eating cat poop thing but I have never had a dog eat anothers or their own. I try to be outside when they go out to potty but it does not always happen. I do pick up the poop several times a day. My vet suggested getting something “I can’t for the life of me remember the name” to feed them both so his poop is not so appetizing.
I feed them Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast and Coastal catch. I did order some of the Darwins to try but I can’t afford to have them on that only. I would like to give them Darwins as a lunch and then the kibble for morning and night.

So to my questions: My thought is that she is lacking something as to why she is eating his poop? I was reading on the supplements. Should I try doing some kind of supplementing? And if so what? I have no clue on a lot of this so am needing pointed in the right direction.

Please ask any questions you may have to help me out! 🙂
Tammy

[terriers4life]

OK. I’ve lurked on this forum for quite a while. I now feel the need to speak up. Dinovite for dogs, which is a product I have used for many, many years for many, many dogs is a high quality whole food supplement. Read the ingredients folks. Good source of vitamins, omega fatty acids, probiotics, enzymes. There’s nothing in it that will cause a dog to have blood in their urine or to get sick, unless there’s something the dog is allergic to. And how the heck would you (or they-Dinovite) know this? It’s sort of like saying “Don’t feed organic, natural peanut butter to your kid, because mine had an allergic reaction to it.”

Seriously, “check with your vet”? Yeah, the one who advises you to buy his dog food (which is garbage, even according to this website) and who would rather you give your dog steroids for life? Give me a break. When was the last time your vet gave you advice about feeding your dog…that was good for him? Vets are not trained in nutrition…well, barely. How long does your dog have to be on steroids for you to realize they are destroying his internal organs? And if steroids or allergy shots were the answer, then WHY DOES THE DOG STILL ITCH or HAVE BALD PATCHES???

Find a 5 star rated food (a Dinovite rep actually pointed me to this site to help me choose a better dog food) and add Dinovite. Get your dog off the darn steroids.

Even the absolute best commercial dog food is heat processed. So enzymes, probiotics and so many vitamins are destroyed. So your dog is walking around with these deficiencies. And you can’t fix that with steroids, creams, sprays, ear cleaners, antibiotics. Use common sense people.

I was a huge skeptic. But in 2009, I had 4 dogs who had some pretty messed up skin and ears. I was feeding a good food (rated 5 stars here) and still so much $$$$ at the vet (and listen folks, not once did a vet offer any money back for crap that didn’t work. In fact, I just kept coming back and spending more. Try this…no, try this…maybe try this…and spending so much money.) So I got enough Dinovite for my worst case. And I used it for a few months. It took about 3 or 4 months but slowly, I began to see a difference. It was really apparent as my other dogs were still just awful.

After a few months, I took my dog in the car, and no stinky smell…no shedding. No bald patches. No butt scooting.

The rest of my dogs have been on this now since then too. I left the country for 4 weeks and had a friend stay at my house. She never added it to my dog’s food. I came home to one of my dogs kinda stinky and the shedding was back. Never again. My dogs won’t go without. Ever. Period.

I have even used this on every foster dog I have had come through my house. And they have all benefitted from it. I send some with each dog when they leave here. I’ve seen some pretty bad skin problems and yeast problems get under control using Dinovite (and I use the fish oil or the other omega supplement too).

And, I actually tried one of their newer products (a different vitamin in a tube). It was supposed to be the same as the one in the box but in a thick like paste. My dogs didn’t really like it much so I went back to the powder. And I sent back a bunch of the tubes. Two were actually empty and 4 were unopened. I got my money back no problem. With a smile.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Murphys Mom,
Welcome! I don’t know if Goldens are considered large breeds or not; if they are, I urge you to feed a food from HDM’s list.
You said this: “The other food I really liked was Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast, but a worker at a pet store talked me out of it, saying it’s 1st ingredient is sweet potato, rather than a protein source.”<~~~~~
A quick google search showed that this is the ingredient list of Meadow Feast….no idea why the store employee said that and you can look at the ingredient list as well, on the bag. This is it:

Earthborn Holistic® Meadow Feast™ Natural Dog Food: Ingredients

Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavors, Blueberry Fiber, Cranberry Fiber, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Spinach, Cranberries, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Yucca Schidgera Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.

[robertdee]

There are quite a few supplements for dog colitis supplements. I’ve tried quite a lot of time, but the one that has worked the best for me was Bionic Biotic from Pooch & Mutt.

[labber]

Kefir is dairy by the way, not so bueno for dogs and not very high in cultures to make a difference.

My recommendation would be to feed raw whenever possible, then you don’t really need supplemental enzymes as much, although I’ve heard good things about enzyme supplementation.

We use Probiotic Miracle which is great and are also a good price for how long the canister lasts. We sprinkle a bit in her meals every day and we notice a big difference when we lapse for too long.

Been using Nordic Naturals for fish oil Omega-3. I don’t believe in giving wild salmon oil since it could have contaminants. Pure is the answer!

[InkedMarie]

Grains & potato can be inflammatory. Go to the dog food ingredients sub forum here; there is a stickie with grain/potato free foods. I’d switch to one of these, in your case I’d go chicken free as well. I’d add salmon oil, a good joint supplement & green lipped mussel.

[Spiritpaws]

I realize I am new here, and appreciate all the information on this site from so many knowledgable dog owners, but I would caution the use of MSM because, while it is labeled a “natural” element, it is actually made from petroleum waste and methane gas. The actions of MSM are from the sulfur component. You can get sulfur from kale, or garlic (personally I prefer kale).
The body makes its own glucosamine sulfate: from the amino acid glutamine, a sulfur molecule, and a sugar molecule. You can feed the body foods high in glutamine: cabbage, for instance, beef, dairy, chicken.
There are also the stabilizers used in supplemental glucosamine sulfate: either sodium or potassium chloride. These additives can be 30% of the weight of the glucosamine. If the label says 4,000 mgs you will need to subtract 30% to know the actual milligrams of glucosamine sulfate you are getting. There currently are no labeling laws requiring the elemental amount of glucosamine sulfate per serving.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would make sure the formula you’re feeding is grain-free as grains are inflammatory. GO has three sensitivity and shine formulas – two are grain-inclusive (salmon, duck) and one is grain-free (turkey), I’m not sure which you’re feeding. If you suspect a food intolerance I’d suggest looking for a grain-free food with a single novel protein source. For her joints, I’d look into a joint maintenance supplement that contains at least two or three of the following: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hylaluronic acid, eggshell membrane, green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, velvet antler, shark cartilage or esterified fatty acids. I’d also recommend giving a natural anti-inflammatory such as turmeric/curcumin, omega 3’s, boswellia, yucca, bromelain or tart cherry. Human joint supplements are generally cheaper per dose and higher quality so I’d go with those over a pet specific joint supplement – I’d give an 80 lb. dog 1 1/2 times the recommended human dose for a week or two for loading then drop it to 3/4 of the human dose for maintenance as long as you’re still seeing results. It sometimes can take a bit of trial and error to find out which supplements your dog responds best to. Good luck.

[theBCnut]

My best suggestion is to buy a good joint supplement instead of trying to find a food with it in it. The joint supplements in food are never at a therapeutic dose at an amount anyone would feed a real dog. To get a therapeutic dose you usually would have to feed double or triple the recommended amount, then your dog would be terribly obese and have all the joint issues that go with that, and need an ever increasing amount.

[dsrogers]

I have a 1 year old Bernese mountain dog. She has suffered from both a leg fracture and was in a cast then suffered from torn Acl and is 6 weeks post TPLO surgery. The fracture and tear have caused her to have muscle loss and hip problems to her one side. tShe needs a diet to support joint health. Currently she is on Go renew and shine with glucosamine supplements along with some dehydrated beef and vegetables. I notice that she has a red snout, reddened eyes and one reddened paw after eating so thinking probable allergy. Vet suggested royal canine mobility or hills j/d but I don’t see them rated highly here. She weights 80 lbs and should maintain this weight to alleviate further joint problems. Suggestions?

[somebodysme]

I would absolutely just feed one thing until you are sure that’s OK and then just add one new thing at a time. That’s what you should do for an allergic dog, it’s called an Elimination Diet. It’s the only way to be sure what he’s allergic to. Do NOT discount the idea that the vegetables can be the issue. I just discovered that my dog is HIGHLY allergic to peas and I’m pretty sure green beans too! I had tried to give her some garden fresh green beans and she had a reaction the next day. They are both Legumes.

I would not give any vitamins or supplements etc during your Elimination Diet either because they can also be allergic to those!

[weezerweeks]

He’s on honest kitchen zeal and canned merrick. I have honest kitchen invigor would that work as a wholwe food supplement?

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you read the ingredient list you’ll see that Greenie’s are a highly processed and unhealthy product. MOst people recognize the importance of avoiding processed foods for themselves and their children, the same is true for dogs.

The ingredients are:

Wheat flour, glycerin, wheat protein isolate, gelatin, water, rice flour, oat fiber, pea protein, potato protein, lecithin, natural poultry flavor, apple pomace, tomato pomace, minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, potassium iodide), ground flaxseed, choline chloride, decaffeinated green tea extract, sodium copper chlorophyllin, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate [vitamin B5], niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], folic acid)

These are basically grains (gluten containing grains nonetheless), vegetable proteins and synthetic vitamins/minerals/amino acids. Why not feed your dog some real food with dental benefits? Raw meaty bones or natural chews like pig ears, bully sticks or dried tracheas. If you insist on feeding a processed dental product I’d at least recommend checking out Zuke’s Z-Bones – while they’re by no means a health food, they’re much better (ingredient-wise) than Greenies.

[scottNY]

To SadieGirlsMom, I am so sorry to hear Sadie is suffering. She is very lucky to have you, though.

I have a 7-month old pit mix rescue and although he doesn’t have those issues, he is a very picky eater and I have been told that is somewhat typical of pits. I regularly add shredded cheese, green bell peppers or carrots to his food just to get him to pay attention to it. It hasn’t mattered what brand or flavors I have given him – he just seems to be picky. I will say, though, he is more likely to eat after a walk then before. [Make sure you don’t feed her right after strenuous exercise, though!]

There are quite a few other pits at the dog park we go to regularly and we always swap stories. A few things we all seem to agree on are that pits do better with a good, grain-free food. [Since at 7-months my puppy is already at 60 lbs, I just switched to one of HoundDogMom’s 5-start large breed recommended foods.] At the first sign of any stomach issues, we also mix in varying amounts of cooked, plain white rice, depending on how severe the issue. If it is really bad, we just use rice, some shredded, boiled, unseasoned chicken breast and some no-sodium chicken broth added for flavor and smell. I also have been giving my puppy a probiotic daily since he was 2-months old. He also gets a good, canine multivitamin. At the advice of others on this forum I intend to add enzymes and likely green food supplements.

Once you get the right food and the probiotic in her, hopefully the problems will begin to fade. I also found the grain-free food helped the stools and the gas tremendously.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Larissamichelle513]

I also feed my dog (60lb black lab/hound mix) Earth’s Pride Pet dry dog food and she is doing GREAT on it! I do also add a nupro supplement to insure she gets all her vitamins but from the research I put into finding her a quality, not to highly priced adult food it looks like the canned equivalent is a good choice. What you want to see in a dog food is meats listed first, thus the chicken, chicken broth and chicken liver would make up the highest percentage of ingredients in that canned food. You dont want to see anything like corn or corn syrup listed in the first few ingredients. This canned food also seems to have a lot of fruits and vegetables which is a good sign, and brown rice is an easily digestible carb for most dogs (again much better to see than corn). In my opinion I would say this is an above average quality canned food for your dog. I think it’s on par with a lot of the higher priced wet foods you find at pet stores. Dog Food Advisor does have a review for the Bj’s dry dog food if you wanted to take a look… /dog-food-reviews/berkley-jensen/

[sparkles1962]

I have a Jack Russell that I have had the same issues as the Mini-Pin. Had bladder issues years ago, and vet put her on urninary so. For years was throwing up on the food, not an issue for the vet. Then last year started with the pancreatitis. We have been working with a holistic vet, acupuncture, and herbal/homeopathic remedies. Amazing results. But, still working on it. I am now making her dog food. That really helps. I used Darwins raw food/chicken and duck. The only issue I had with that is the small bones, she was throwing those up and it was too costly.

My dog has a duality of chronic inflammatory pancreatitis that is creating damp phlegm in her kidneys and hence bladder stone issues. This is what the holistic vet is working on. It surprises me, that the regular vets don’t even know this. However, I am looking for a good nutritionist vet, for making the appropriate raw diet myself. There is someone online, that you can pay for this service (but I’m a little leary to give my personal info online)! Here is the information I found online, if you are interested. She had some good things to say, such as me feeding a natural diet that included sweet potato is not good for my dog because—if the stones she is forming are calcium oxalate, you should not be feeding sweet potatoes due to their content of oxalic acid. It is also vitally important for kidney health to have sufficient calcium in the diet to 1. meet the dog’s needs and 2. bind excess phosphorus, and in typical, supplemented diets this is usually severely deficient.
Looking online at dog diets with pancreatitis….is overwhelming!!!
— Sabine Contreras
Canine Care & Nutrition Consultant
Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines
BetterDogCare.com – DogFoodProject.com

[julez4you]

Thanks for the quick response HDMom! I haven’t heard of that or had Bentley tested, but I certainly will. If he does have it- are there any good treatments for it?

Also, any thoughts on whether or not I need to be concerned with trying to add in the herbal supplement that has herbs that are known calcium sources? I’d sure hate to find out I’m improving one thing and potentially breaking another 🙁

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

You actually don’t want to feed vegetables raw. Dogs can’t digest the cellulose in vegetables very efficiently and for this reason they should be cooked and pureed to in a sense “pre-digest” them prior to feeding. The meat, bones and organs are what you would feed raw with a raw diet but if you’re not comfortable with feeding raw meat that’s certainly understandable. A cooked homemade diet is still much healthier than commercial pet food. My favorite books of those Sandy mentioned is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” – while this is more aimed at raw feeders there are many principals discussed that are common to both raw and home cooked diets. The recipes could also easily be converted to cooked by omitting the bone-in meat, adding boneless meat and supplementing with 800 – 1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat fed. My favorite pre-mixes are See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix and Urban Wolf. BTW – GOOD choice on going homemade. As Sandy said, it’s not something to be taken lightly but if you do your research and properly prepare the meals you will be setting your dog up for a long and healthy life! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty on human omega 3 supplements versus pet omega 3 supplements. I just wanted to point out that omega 3 supplements are not something you want to look for a bargain on. Even most human fish oils have been found to be rancid by the time they’re sold. If you splurge on any of your supplements let it be omega 3’s. I’d recommend Carlson brand or Nordic Naturals (I use Carlson).