[theBCnut]

Ringmaster

Probiotics are very sensitive to environmental conditions and the conditions that kibbles are regularly under are exactly the ones that kill probiotics, so I always assume the probiotics on kibble are only window dressing, except under very specific conditions. Additionally, kibbles rarely have the variety of different strains that a dog with issues needs.

I prefer the pumpkin be fed with the food for best results. Otherwise the pumpkin is going through the intestines at a different time than the food and it won’t help with food issues.

Earthborn has tubs rather than cans. Natures Variety Instinct is good too. For kong stuffing, I wouldn’t worry to much about calcium levels as long as you aren’t using something that is REALLY high in calcium.

[theBCnut]

Kobe’s Dad

Sometimes Metronidazole just does not get rid of giardia. I’ve known plenty of people who have had to treat multiple times with Panacur before their dog finally licked it. Make sure that anytime you are giving antibiotics that you are replacing the probiotics in the gut both during and after treatment. Yes, the age of the sample can affect the test results.

[Whitney]

Anyone have an opinion on my previous post? 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Whitney –

I’m not sure if the calcium levels in 4Health Grain-Free or Pure Balance are okay or not – I didn’t look into these foods because they’re only rated 3.5 stars and therefore didn’t meet the criteria of my list. So if you want to feed these I would suggest contacting the companies to obtain the calcium levels. If she’s still a pup and already experiencing pain I would discuss this with your vet – while it could be an injury it is likely Pano or severe HD (it would have to be pretty severe for the dog to be showing symptoms at such a young age). I would recommend supplementing with some natural anti-inflammatories such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric (curcumin), bromelain, omega 3’s, tart cherry, or white willow and/or high doses of omega 3’s. Now may also be a good time to start a joint maintenance supplement such as glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, green lipped mussel and/or esterified fatty acids. I’d also suggest avoiding grains entirely as grains are inflammatory.

[Whitney]

Thank you! We go to a Naturalist as a family and we eat our medicine so I will look into herbs for her. I just wasn’t sure what would be safe. You know, I hear slight clicking coming from her back end and I told the Vet and he said that it is probably just joints loose because she is growing and would check her at a year. So I will do the supplemental stuff until then. She is on Proin already at such a young age. They said there was no natural alternative. 🙁

[theBCnut]

Hi Whitney

Please don’t give her anything for pain before you have the vet look at her, since that may mask the pain and then the vet won’t get a true idea of the severity of the problem.

I don’t think anybody here said to not give her a puppy food. We definitely would have cautiond you to be aware of the calcium level though.

[theBCnut]

Sorry, we were posting at the same time so I didn’t see your’s.

[Whitney]

What should the calcium levels be? I can’t find that list.

[Whitney]

I found the list on the first page. I was feeding her Kirklands, it’s just a bit of a drive to Costco so I would really love to find something close and comparable. Thank you for your time.

[Anonymous]

Hound Dog Mom – thanks for the suggestion. Nature’s Variety is a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but I will keep it in mind in case I need to go to a limited ingredient diet. We have a follow up appt with our vet in 3 weeks, so I assume if he isn’t better they would treat with a different dewormer rather than repeating the Panacur? And BTW, thanks for all the work you put into your famous list. It is such a helpful resource!
Pattyvaughn – I am on the Swanson website to order the ultimate 15 strain probiotic you recommend on the other forum. Would the Swanson brand digestive enzymes be good with that, or would you recommend something else specifically? If I start adding pumpkin to his kibble, should I stop putting it in his Kongs? I don’t want to overdo it. Thanks again.

[apriliamille]

whitney, would it be a possibility to match something up from the lists with chewy.com or petflow.com?

reason im asking unless i missed it somewhere “its just a bit of a drive to costco so i would like something close”
hit 50 dollars on those websites and shipping is free to your door step. opens up a lot more options for food

[DogFoodie]

Hi Whitney,

My 15 month old Golden pup has been diagnosed with pano and recently had another slight flare-up. I took him back to the vet (integrative medicine) and she recommended this supplement from Thorne: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BSN030/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I had been giving Sam turmeric, but she said it would be nearly impossible for me to give him a truly therapeutic dose of turmeric, which is what Thorne’s CurcuVET is. He’s up to taking it twice a day right now and it hasn’t been quite one week and I’m working up to three capsules daily (he weighs about 76 pounds). I really believe this stuff will help his pano as I’m already a believer in the anti-inflammatory power of turmeric, but I’m also very helpful that it helps heal his delicate digestive system. Funny thing is, I always shoved capsules into his poor gullet and I have now realized that I can literally just throw it into his bowl and he eats it right up with his food.

Not knowing if it would be appropriate for your pup, you might want to ask your vet about it also.

[theBCnut]

Ringmaster

The Swansons enzymes are fine. Try something like yogurt or canned food in the kong. You can even use some of your kibble mixed with yogurt.

[InkedMarie]

Betsy: I’m wondering if that Thorne product may be good for my Gemma. She’s old, her tummy is fine but her joints aren’t. She’s bow legged a bit in the front, vet says from being crated too much. Anyway, she is currently on Swanson joint mobility plus (plus salmon oil and a chinese herb called “Benefit hips & knees”).
Do you, or anyone else, think this product would be worth trying? If yes, do I skip the other stuff or use all of it?

[Whitney]

Thanks for the info Betsy. I will ask the Vet and then look into it. That was very helpful! And April, I thought about that last night and was gonna look again today. I had looked before but then changed my mind because I thought I could deal with the “inconvenience” of driving 45 min. one way. Well I own a diesel truck and I am a homeschool Mom so we don’t have the extra money in the budget to drive to get dog food. Hence the Tractor Supply 4Health brand.I am trying to get Cal. level info on that. They are doing very well on the grain free as far as tummy goes but I am at Wal Mart more than I am Tractor Supply. That is why I wanted to try Pure Balance. They don’t list the Cal. on the bag either BUT I found a phone number. Oh, and what about the Phosphorus? Someone said that there should be certain levels of that along with Cal.? Just wondering.

[Whitney]

I was looking At Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance Freeze Dried…it has Chickpeas but I did not see any meat. Do the Chickpeas act as the protein? Never mind, I see the protein content from the Chickpeas BUT it also says to add you dogs favorite protein….I am a little confused. It’s the Pre-Mix.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Whitney.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Marie,

My vet really thought very highly of the CurcuVET. I’d also love to ask my TCVM vet and see what he thinks. My regular vet described it as a highly bio-available therapeutic dose of curcumin, I was sold. I guess I never really made the connection before that curcumin would also help with digestion as well, which now makes sense to me (after further explanation from Patty).

I don’t know what Gemma’s taking that it might replace or if it would be OK in addition to… so I’ll leave that up to the pros for a little more feedback for you. : )

[InkedMarie]

Whitney: why not order food online? Most places have great prices with free shipping. If you want a list of online places, let us know.

Thanks, Betsy. Hopefully someone can pipe in, I’m pretty clueless with this stuff.

[InkedMarie]

Whitney, I just checked all the Grandma Lucy’s foods…all start with a meat protein except the pre mixes which aren’t supposed to have meat. You have to add meat to it.

[sharfie]

Whitney-Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance comes either with chicken, lamb, rabbit, or goat as the freeze dried
protein source. The pre mix requires you to add your own protein.

[apriliamille]

is 4health from diamond?

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm343084.htm
yes this document says cats but i wonder if the dog food is made from diamond as well
that might help narrow in on the nutritional info

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[theBCnut]

The grain inclusive is made by Diamond, the grain free is not.

[Whitney]

I didn’t think that 4Health was Diamond…And I am looking into ordering online. Thank you all for your responses.

[theBCnut]

Owned by Tractor Supply, made by Diamond.

[cdubau]

Hello everyone! My name is Carla and I’m the mom of three pups. Emma and Kelsey are my older girls. They are both about 7 and my new pup, Bode, is about 4 months now. We have had him about three weeks now. On our first vet visit the doc explained how too much calcium was a bad thing for large breeds and while I had looked to this site 5/6 years ago I decided to check it out again! Anywho we don’t really know what breed Bode is but he looks like possibly a Dobi, Black and Tan hound or rotti mix. Basically he will be big and he’s Black and Tan lol.

I have read the literature provided and done hours of research as to what brands are available with prices in my area. I dont feel I have many affordable options. I’m left with a couple questions probably due to confusion. We have fed our dogs Nutro in past since it was what we could afford but recently switched our older dogs to taste of the wild. Looking at the information of their website it lists their Nutro MAX large breed puppy as having a Min 1.00 and a Max of 1.5 for Calcium and caloric energy is 3580kcal/kg and 347 kcal/cup. **which number am I supposed to compare the calcium to when doing my own research? And the phosphorus should be half of that or double that? I don’t want to feed him nutro it’s just a brand I am familiar with.

My petsmart is fairly small. It only stocks Blue (and petsmarts Simply Nourish brand), Caster and Pollux, and Wellness as higher end brands. It also carries Royal Canin. There are a couple local pet stores that carry Taste of the Wild, Premiun Edge, Chicken Soup FTDLS, Holistic, Innova, Victor and Blackgold–in very limited selections. Driving an hour away adds Halo, Natures Variety, Nutricsource and By Nature (only ocean fish). Some of those brands are really out of my price range such as Halo, Wellness and Royal Canin. Also Newmans Own. I’m very leery of buying online to several fraud issues I’ve had in the last couple years causing me to change entire account numbers.

I want to feel my new pup the best that I can afford but times are tight.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Carla.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by cdubau. Reason: Adding

[Whitney]

I meant the grain free 4health is not made by Diamond like the regular. Sorry, I mis-spoke. What about Rachel Ray’s Grain Free? It has 1.1 calcium and 26 protein.

[apriliamille]

cdubau
in my opinion
nature’s variety is on the hound dog mom’s 2nd .doc list. dont lose sleep over the royal canin, i fell for that one. our boxer was on the boxer formula for 2 years and our dobe pup on maxi puppy for 2 months and will never look back at it. there is soo much better for less price. innova gives me the heeby jeebies, it seams every time i go to petsmart to weigh my dogs or get new toys that section of the aisle is yanked with recall signs posted (i think 3 times this year alone)
two victor grain formulas are on the .doc list as well
Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Formula
Victor Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Recipe

[InkedMarie]

Hi Carla,
I can’t comment on large breed pups & their needs but can you order food online? If yes, you can order most any food you’d like!

[cdubau]

Inked Marie–physically yes I can order online but I am pretty against it right now due to fraud issues I have had in the past couple years. Thanks though. I have definitely looked at the online websites that one can order from.

Apriliamille- I still have to call the place with Victor to see what specific ones they have. It’s a very small store so I’m not sure they will have the two on her list nor the price? Driving an hour for natures variety is not really ideal and is a last option before ordering online. I have never wanted to even try Royal Canin for some reason. Innova is completely removed from petsmart here! Not even a spot on the shelf left for it.

MOST importantly I am still waiting for some one to explain to me how I need to be doing the calculations so I can use what I find locally.

[apriliamille]

this is hound dog moms calculation just saying so it dont look like im stealing credit
saved one of her posts on her calculations into a notepad doc on my computer

To calculate grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal. do the following:
1) Calculate grams of calcium per kilogram – Multiply the actual percent calcium by 1,000 grams (it’s very important that you obtain the actual level of calcium from the company, don’t use the minimum stated on the bag as foods often contain much more than the stated minimum).
2) Divide grams of calcium per kilogram by calories per kilogram (calories per kilogram can generally be found on the product packaging or website).
3) Multiply the grams of calcium per calorie (obtained in step 2) by 1,000 calories.

For example, if a food states that the actual level of calcium is 1.2% and there are 3,500 calories per kilogram: 1,000 grams X 0.012 = 12 grams of calcium per kilogram. 12 grams of calcium per kilogram/3,500 calories per kilogram = 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie. 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie X 1,000 calories = 3.43 grams of calcium per 1,000 calories.

I evaluated the Taste of the Wild Formulas when I created the list and none had appropriate calcium levels for large or giant breed growth.

[cdubau]

Thank you so much to you and Hound Dog Mom. I had the concept at first and then I read the articles in the first page and got confused!!

So I understand the min is usually below then curve but what if the company publishes a “max” amount as well? Is it safe to assume the max is really the max?

[EHubbman]

Found a great article I thought some people here could find useful – it’s all about transitioning and starting a rotational feeding plan. 🙂

https://www.tumblr.com/drjeandoddspethealthresource/53858347318/pet-food-transitioning

[InkedMarie]

Carla,
A opulent of us have had trouble with doggie food.com but we have alo used Petflow.com, wag.com and chewy.com with great success

[Hound Dog Mom]

The max should really be the max if that’s what they tell you. I base calculations on the average or typical value if I can get it, if not I base calculations on the max.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Great article Ehubbman – thanks for posting! 🙂

[cdubau]

Thanks HDM!

So I decided on Dr Tim’s Kinesis for the new puppy. Any advice over who to buy from chewy or petflow?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’d just go with whichever is cheaper, I’ve had only good experiences with both Chewy and Petflow.

[apriliamille]

due to this:

/disclaimer-and-disclosure/

i try and buy from petflow

[CharlieNYC]

Hello everyone,

I’m a total newbie here and I hope to learn as much as I can. With little planning and even less preparation, we just got a 4-month old Standard Poodle puppy 2 days ago. He’s really gentle with our kids and has a peaceful disposition with everyone so we’re feeling very lucky. He weighs about 20-25 pounds, has an Apricot-color coat and seems to be in great health (we’re taking him to the vet tomorrow.)

The person we got him from recommended Purina One Healthy Blend Large Puppy Formula in red bags. After a little digging, I realized that it isn’t a highly rated food at all. I was hoping to get your recommendations for the top couple of foods for our new puppy. Some friends have recommended freeze-dried beef or chicken patties, and some swear by dry foods to help the teeth and gums. At this point, we’re little confused so we would appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks in advance!

[mrmurphy]

Hi Hound Dog Mom
Many thanks to you and the other knowledgeable folks. I have a 5 3/4 month Bernese Mountain Dog that we got from rescue. He was from a puppymill in NE Oregon and rescued at about 3 1/2 months quite emaciated and full of worms etc. His initial weight was 30#. He was 37 # when we got him 5 1/2 weeks ago and is today 54#. He feels good at this weight but I don’t want to see him gain too much faster.

From a lot of reading I am about to break with the recommendations of the rescue coordinator of the Berner club as well as the advice given by Berner websites on puppy food. They all recommend strongly to limit protein. He was on Canidae lamb and rice all stages with 21% protein. I think the arguments in favor of higher protein make sense and am about to switch him to Great Life Dr E’s grain and potate free Duck formula with 27% protein. Holding my breath a bit as I certainly don’t want to cause him ortho problems by doing so but test it out we will. I do appreciate your info on calcium risks. Do I understand that by 9 mos I don’t have to worry about calcium levels anymore in foods?

I am also thinking of adding in some raw food. Do you have recommendations for a good starting point and how to mix and match eg 1/3 raw and 2/3 kibble.
Lastly do you have a recommendation for a specific probiotic?

Would appreciate your thought on these matters.
Thanks so much
MrMurphy

[jamie_aa]

Can anyone tell me what the calcium levels are in the stella’s raw dog food and what ones are appropriate please? Both of my computers are not letting me look up the calcium levels and i just found out that a local store carries this food. yay!

[julez4you]

Help! My 4 month old GD pup is off to a bit of a rocky health start and I need some advice. When I brought him home from the breeder he had just finished his 1course of antibiotic from a case of puppy acne. He was being fed Purina- so my 1st objective was to get him switched over to a better food- but given my experience with Danes and their sometimes sensitive tummies- I played it safe and switched him to GO! which has acceptable calcium levels but is not very high in protein.

About 1 week after he came home he had a horrible episode of blood in his stool- so vet put him on Metronidazole and bland diet while tests came back. Turns out he had worms (dont recall which one but it was long and white when it came out in stool- so she treated him with dewormer.)

During this this time I was also trying to transition him to a higher protein food slowly and tried adding in HK Love or high meat cans. Both ended up producing loose stools even in small quantities, so I decided to try and do a slow switch to a higher protein kibble such as Canine Caviar. After 2days of adding in only a little bit of the new kibble (1/4 of overall quantity) it was like a water hose. At first I thought maybe it was just something in the formula- so I tried NV LID Turkey (again- only tiny amount) and he had nonstop diarrhea that brought us back to the vet and once again, back on Metronidazole and bland diet.

At this point I’m petrified to try anything new in his diet. He’s currently on straight GO! Duck formula and daily probiotic and enzymes. I eventually want to switch him to raw- but with my older dog 100% raw fed, the expense of having a growing Dane pup on raw too is a bit much.

2 weeks ago, he also broke out with a bad skin infection around his genitals- red, pussy, scabby bumps which I’m sure are the end result of his multiple immune suppressant treatments- and fearful at the thought of yet another antibiotic treatment, I’m trying to treat with medicated shampoo at the moment.

I also want to help boost his immune and digestive health more and have a great organic canine wellness blend from a local herbalist, but since I noticed that one of its benefits is joint/ mobility and it has horsetail and oat straw in it- now I’m wondering if I need to be concerned about added calcium this my be contributing? Any thoughts on whether or not I should continue giving it to him?

Also- if you have any tips on diet or skin problems- I’m all ears. I’m trying to do the best for him but seems that for every good intended actin I try to take- I just end up causing him more problems. 🙁

And at 4 months he still hasn’t had his 3rd distemper or rabbies vac because he’s had something chronically going on since.

Please help! Julie and Bentley

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Julie –

I’m so sorry to hear about what you and Bentley and going through. You must be so frustrated. 🙁

Have you had Bentley tested for an IgA deficiency? German Shepherds are one of the breeds predisposed to IgA deficiencies. IgA or Immunoglobulin A is one class of immunoglobulin proteins known as antibodies. The purpose of IgA antibodies, specifically, involves the skin, respiratory passages, the digestive tract and exposed parts of the reproductive system or urinary system. Some common symptoms are skin infections, urinary tract infections, pustules, nasal discharge and diarrhea. Dogs with IgA deficiencies are prone to developing allergies and immune-mediated dysfunctions. I would encourage you to have your vet do a blood test for this.

[julez4you]

Thanks for the quick response HDMom! I haven’t heard of that or had Bentley tested, but I certainly will. If he does have it- are there any good treatments for it?

Also, any thoughts on whether or not I need to be concerned with trying to add in the herbal supplement that has herbs that are known calcium sources? I’d sure hate to find out I’m improving one thing and potentially breaking another 🙁

Thanks!

[Cyndi]

HDM, I just read your response to Julie and you said German Shephards, but she said her dog is a Great Dane, just to let you know. Not sure if your response to her would be any different… I thought I read “GSD” as well, when I first read her post and then further down, she said Dane.

Julie, I hope you get things figured out with your pup. Sounds really frustrating! 🙁

[shadowfire76]

Just got a new puppy with what we believe to be a pitbull mix a couple days ago. Someone dropped him on a friend of mine and she was going to take him to the shelter but I brought him home with me instead. The vet said he’s about 10weeks old and he already weighs about 20 lbs. The vet said based upon his body frame and the size of his paws that he is likely to be a large dog pushing close to 100 lbs when he gets fully grown. So I am looking for a quality puppy food to feed him. I have been feeding him 4Health Performance Adult food (which I feed my other dog) while I researched what kind of puppy food would be best suited for him. I know it doesn’t have all that he needs but figure it is definitely a higher quality than standard Purina Puppy Chow. A lot of the top dog foods aren’t available in my area but I know that I can get Wellness, Merrick, Taste of the Wild, and Blue Buffalo locally. I see that Wellness puppy is on your list but is that the standard Wellness puppy or the large breed formula? Any advice is greatly appreciated. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Thanks Cyndi! I thought her post said “gsd” now I see that it just says “gd.”

[Whitney]

Hound Dog Mom,
Just wondering if you will have a new list out since the Kirklands has been reduced to 3 1/2 stars? And I have a question on Natural Life, It has Min Calcium 1.35% and the calories are 3456.88….so is that even starting too high to look at. I still am confused about the calcium to calories and believe me, I sat and looked at it for an hour or so the other day. 🙂 I think I want to know if there is a Max Calcium level on food that when we see it we just know that it’s too high. Like say 1.5 % or something like that. I know I am confusing you but it’s the only way I know to ask. Thank you!

[Cyndi]

No problem HDM! 🙂 I did the same thing.

[lilyh]

Thank you so much for this thread.

We pick up an Field Bred English Setter Puppy next week. The breeder feeds her (and all their dogs) Purina Large Breed Puppy Chow. Think I have finally convinced my husband to switch her off that once the dog settles into our new home (his argument: If it’s good enough for the breeder, why should we switch?). I can just anticipate the resistance when I try to suggest grain-free.

Are there articles about why a grain-free diet is suggested for dogs? Are there any All Stages or Puppy Foods that are not grain-free that people would recommend?

The puppy will be 8 weeks old when we pick her up.

Brands that I am leaning toward are:

Merrick
Fromm
Dr. Tim (not available near me, but can special order)
Wellness
Earthborn
Kirkland Signature

Appreciate feedback and open to other suggestions.

LilyH

[Author]

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