Prebiotics, Probiotics, and Enzymes, oh my!

Dog Food Advisor Forums Dog Supplements Prebiotics, Probiotics, and Enzymes, oh my!

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  • #23370 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    My guy is on Dr. Langer’s 15 strain probiotic from Swansons and is doing awesome on it, we’ve not had any troubles. I’d definitely recommend it.

    #23378 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I started out using Mercola products and I really like them, but I am having as good results on Swansons, and I really like keeping a little of my money in my pocket. There isn’t anything in enzymes and probiotics that should be a problem for dogs. You do have to be careful with green supplements though. Many of the human ones have green tea or some other caffeine containing ingredient, which is a no no for dogs.

    #23381 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Hi Patty & anyone else who wants to jump in, lol!
    I’ve started my Brit lab & wired- hair doxie mix on Honest Kitchen Preference w/ our game meats (venison/elk/rabbit/duck/goose, etc) & they are LOVING IT!!! Sounds like I don’t need to give enzymes since I feed raw meat, but I think I saw that you guys recommend Swanson’s probiotics about 3 times/week, is that right? Anything else I should be adding? I do get fresh eggs from my neighbor….
    Your advice is most appreciated! Oh, did you see the article today on natural news about Pedigree & they gave THIS website!! as a great place to get educated about dog foods! Knowledge is power!

    #23384 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Yes, probiotics about 3 times a week. HDM is the one that can tell you if there are enough omega 3s in the eggs, I can tell you that I use eggs every other day, but I cook them lightly every other time, so I don’t assume that they are enough omega 3s and I add fish or krill oil on the days that I don’t give raw eggs.

    #23388 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Thanks again! Patty :). Is there a specific probiotic (name) @ Swanson’s that I should order? I will start giving them the extra virgin unrefined coconut oil that you recommended tomorrow…..have you ever tried it? I really like it for me, lol! In fact, I’d love to know if there is a base mix for HUMANS to add to game meat……we have trouble getting organic fruits & veggies w/o having to drive 2 hrs each way, and unfortunately, we just aren’t that into them, although I know I need to have them…..we’re both active, lean, & just love our game meats, lol! My cats are going nuts….did I read somewhere that you like Nature’s logic for cats??

    #23393 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    HDM uses Nature’s logic for her cats, and it is next on my list to try. There are 2 probiotics that I like from Swanson’s. The first is Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 strain with trace minerals and FOS, the second is Soil Based Organisms. Yes, I take coconut oil for myself too. To get “fresh” veggies for myself, I often have to resort to frozen.

    #23425 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant

    Yesterday I purchased Swanson’s Premium Digestive Enzymes…maybe I got the wrong ones from what you are recommending, PattyV. I also purchased a super green powder (I will check for the caffeine, hopefully it is not in there).

    Just to confirm between the enzymes and probiotics…Probiotics is every other day and enzymes every day since I only feed kibble. Can you confirm the dosage that I should be giving them for the enzymes and probiotic? I have two that are 50-60 lbs and another that is about 30-40 (but working on getting her to lose some of that weight). She is a little “chunky-butt”. Thanks to all for the help!!

    #23426 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant

    Just checked….it shows Green Tea Extract 20mg on the Super Green powder. This would NOT be suitable for my dogs then, correct? Dang it!

    #23427 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant
    #23710 Report Abuse
    Pugsonraw
    Member

    I decided to try out the Starwest Botanicals products that HDM suggested in the above thread. I ended up ordering kelp, alfalfa, spirulina and wheatgrass from the Swansons website. They came in the mail and these organic powders are so fresh! I concocted a mix and have been using them foe the past few days for the pugs.

    Thanks HDM – this super greens recipe is a keeper!

    PugsonRaw

    #23716 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Glad you like it pugsonraw! ๐Ÿ™‚

    #23725 Report Abuse
    Tigerlily
    Participant

    I apologize if someone has already asked this, but I haven’t found a search function, has anyone tried Dr. Becker’s SpiruGreen?

    ETA: Oh shoot, hold the phone, did I post this in the wrong section? Well, I’ll attempt to right my wrong by also asking about Dr. Becker’s probiotics. I generally use Proviable DC in times of need, but was thinking of trying Dr. Becker’s probiotics and making it an everyday thing. I am not sure how her product compares to, say, Proviable.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by Tigerlily.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by Tigerlily.
    #23821 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Ok, my Swanson’s order (Dr Langer’s & soil based organisms products) should be arriving any day – my lab is 45 lbs & my little guy is 13 lbs. They’re capsules, right? How much do I give to each one (I remember that I give them 3x/week)?? They are on HK Preference & raw game meat, plus coconut oil – anything else I should be giving? Thanks again ๐Ÿ™‚

    #23826 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Do you have anything for omega 3s, like fish oil? The capsules break open, I would give your lab 3/4 and your little guy 1/4.

    #23828 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Nope, don’t have fish oil – I remember HKitchen recommended Nordic Naturals…..what do you suggest? Also, we catch rainbow trout in Utah (have them vacuum sealed in freezer), & plan on giving them fish on a weekly basis, but I was told that I should not give it to them raw because of a parasite that can kill dogs (salmincola) – looked it up & it sounds legit…..any thoughts?

    #23834 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I’m afraid of feeding raw fish that may potentially harbor that parasite. I have heard that freezing for a couple weeks kills the parasite, but I haven’t researched it myself. There are several good salmon/fish oils, but the thing to keep in mind is how quickly they go bad. For that reason, I think that capsules are the way to go.

    #23838 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Aside from sardines once in a blue moon, I typically don’t feed raw fish for fear of parasites. When I give fish oil I use Carlson brand fish oil – capsules. Nordic Naturals is another good brand though. Fish oil is one of those things you don’t want to take the cheap route on. I also feed raw cage free eggs and tinned sardines for omega 3’s.

    #23841 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    BTW, I use Spirugreen. My dogs think the tablets are treats. I always add green superfoods and some other antioxidant rich foods, but I’m not sure how much of that sort of thing THK already has in it.

    #23843 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Thanks Patty & HDM ๐Ÿ™‚ where do I find the Carlson fish oil capsules? Will my little 13 lb guy be able to take a capsule? Don’t know dosages…..45lbs & 13 lbs. Yeah, as much as I would love to give them some of our trout, even if I cook it, I’ll probably be a little nervous…..how often do you give the fish oil? I also have cage free eggs & can feed them raw (already have actually), but don’t know how often. You guys should write a book….seriously!

    #23845 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    It depends on the fish oil. Look at the EPA and DHA levels of the one you get(Carlsons is on Swansons site). You want 100mg of EPA and DHA combined per 10 lbs of body weight.

    #23846 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Guess I have to place another order, lol…ok, how often do I give them the fish oil?

    #23850 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    I wouldn’t feed raw eggs more often than every other day. Egg whites contain a biotin-binding protein called avidin. There’s controversy over whether or not there’s enough biotin in the yolks to counteract the effects of the avidin. I give my girls raw cage-free eggs three days per week. For a dog as small as yours, one egg a week or every other week should be plenty.

    #23860 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I give fish oil every day that I’m not giving fish or eggs, but I’ve heard that giving a double dose every other day is fine too.

    #23861 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Thanks! Placed my order for fish oils today ๐Ÿ™‚

    #23862 Report Abuse
    Colorado huntress
    Participant

    Oh, forgot to ask….should I give probiotics on the same day I give fish oils, or does it matter? For example, if I give probiotics on Mon, Wed, Fri, should I give fish oils on Tues, Thurs, Sat? And, I bought the Dr Langer’s & the soil- based organisms – should I use one (3x/week), for a week, then rotate to the other probiotic?

    #23866 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Probiotics and fish oil won’t interfere with each other. Rotating your probiotics is a really good idea, you can rotate as often as every dose or after every bottle or anywhere in between, the important thing is to store them in a cool dry location.

    #23889 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Participant

    Hi Patty-
    When you buy probiotics that are in a capsule, do you open them up and sprinkle on food? Or is it ok to just give them in the capsule. I’m just wondering if they would still get the benefits if you don’t open up and sprinkle as I’m trying to make it easier for when other people feed them. Thank you:)

    #23890 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    I’m not Patty but you can do either. My dogs eat anything in their bowls so I just toss them in.

    #23899 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I open them for my small dog and give the rest to one of my other dogs and I just throw the capsule in the bowl for the other dog, so I do both. You can do either one.

    #23903 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant

    I’ve been opening mine up and doing a “best guess” since I was told 1/4 a dose for my smaller dog (35-40 lbs) and 1/2 a dose for my bigger dogs (55-60 lbs). It is kind of a pain, plus I may not really be able to get the right measurement that way. What would happen if I just gave them all three 1 capsule every other day? Can you get too much probiotic? I’m using what was recommended to me…the 15 strain FOS from Swanson’s. Thanks again…

    On a side note..I got my enzymes in the other day and they kind of have a grape smell to them. How weird…the dogs actually like the way they smell too, or seem to. They were always excited when breakfast and dinner time rolled around, but now they are crazy excite..I think it is because the coconut oil. They LOVE that stuff.

    #23907 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    You really can’t over do probiotics in a healthy dog, so don’t worry about that. Mine are crazy for the smell of coconut oil too.

    #23975 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant

    I’d like to start my dogs eventually on some super greens. I’ve been making a note as to all the “super greens” suggested and kind of counting the cost to make my own mixture. I’d like to purchase the 1lb bags as suggested, but can’t purchase them all because of cost right now. So, I have a few questions…if you don’t mind.

    1- Due to cost, if I started my dogs out on the top 3 super greens, what would be suggested?
    2- How often do you add/remove different super greens to the mixture to ensure optimal health and that they aren’t missing some vital nutrients?
    3- How often do you give it to them and the dosage? Is it every day?

    #23978 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    To me the most important supergreens are seaweeds and algaes, so I would go with spirulina or kelp. I would add a grass to that like alfalfa, wheat grass, or barley grass. Then I would go with a different superfood like bee pollen or berries And I feed according to the size of the dog. Mine are 40 lbs so they get a half adult dose. My daughter’s JRT is about 13 lbs and gets slightly less than a quarter of an adult dose. I give it every day and switch up which ones I’m giving at least every 3 months. With all of those mixed together, I give a teaspoon or 2 depending on what is already in what I am feeding to my 40 lb dogs.

    #23991 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    I agree with Patty – I’d do a sea green, a grass and some other super food (I like bee pollen, colostrum and glandulars). I give my dogs (68 lbs. and 75 lbs.) around 2 tsp. each per day. I switch ingredients every 3 – 4 months (I make up big batches).

    #24042 Report Abuse
    puppylove
    Participant

    If you’re feeding your dog a processed meat diet then enzymes are CRITICAL.

    Prebiotics are not the same as PRObiotics. PREbiotics are simply the material that the bacteria feed on to grow. Careful giving your dog a prebiotic without probiotics or you could feed pathogenic bacteria (if there is a yeast or bacterial problem in the gut)

    Probiotics, I am an advocate. Find one made for dogs, not humans, since humans and dogs have different systems. I like Nusentia, but there are some other suggestions on this forum that might be good too if they are made for dogs.

    Fish oil? I don NOT DO WILD fish oils, like salmon, because of contaminants. They are more expensive, but get the purified fish oil from small species fish. Great source of beneficial Omega-3 without PCBs or toxins. Again, I like Nusentia’s fish oil, but I’m sure there are others that compare. In this case, you could get a human fish oil supplement since fish oil is fish oil. period.

    #24191 Report Abuse
    scottNY
    Member

    Hi all and thanks for all the info. I am a little overwhelmed, but hopefully my “summary” question will help others.

    I am the proud parent of a 7 month, 60 lb pit mix puppy who came from a rescue. After following this thread, I have just switched his food from TOTW grain-free puppy to the 5-star Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit. Thanks, HDM, for the Recommended Large Breed Puppy Foods spreadsheet. It was a wonderful tool!

    Now here is where I am confused. I am trying to not go overboard on supplements [limited income] but want to make sure my puppy grows in to a very happy and healthy dog. Now that he is eating five star food, what else does he need? He already takes the Vetri-Science Laboratories Chicken Canine Plus Supplement for Pets, which he loves. He will also be taking the Vetri-Science Glyco-Flex for joints since when he plays and jumps very rough, he sometimes limps a little for a few hours – better safe than sorry. I want to make sure his joints have what they need as he grows.

    Also, since following this thread [or a similar one here] I ordered the Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, which amazon.com will deliver today and he will begin it today. So here are my questions, although comments on what I wrote previously are more than welcome, too!

    1. With the Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, does he get one capsule daily? Open and sprinkled on food or closed?

    2. How important is coconut oil? If I give it to him, how often and how much per day?

    3. My puppy now eats the recommended grain-free Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, along with occasional pieces of allowed fruits and vegetables twice daily.
    A. Does he need an enzyme?
    B. I see several people commenting on the Swanson enzyme for humans. I certainly like the cost and I know it is a quality product. Should I get him that, too?
    C. If so, again, how much and how often? Is it fine to take out of the capsule if he wonโ€™t swallow the capsule?

    Thanks in advance HDM and others. I am trying to find that elusive middle ground and I appreciate all your help!

    #24355 Report Abuse

    HDM please comment on the person above as I just ordered the NV formula and also I want to start giving my guy enzymes and probiotics so he can have a good immune system and since I feed him dry kibbke. I rather give him kefir as I drink that myself daily but will that be enough probiotics for him? I plan on ordering one bottle of the swanson products mentioned above to introduce the bacteria to his system. Please advise HDM.

    #24359 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Not HDM, but thought I would let you know, he posted that question in a couple spots and we answered it in the other spot. I don’t know where.

    It sounds like you have a good plan. Kefir is good. It has something like 9 different live cultures in it. The Swanson’s has more, but the kefir is extremely likely to have healthy active cultures, we just hope the Swanson’s does. Maybe give the Swanson’s once or twice a week and the kefir the rest of the time.

    #24382 Report Abuse
    scottNY
    Member

    Hi Duke – here is the link Patty was referring to:
    https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/what-is-necessary/

    #24395 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Thanks Scott!!

    #24403 Report Abuse
    puppylove
    Participant

    I’m pretty surprised to see that people are giving the Langer’s brand of probiotics to their dogs. I would be interested to know if anyone is having results with it.

    Scott, you’re asking if you should give your dog one capsule or two per day? I would say you could probably give him the whole bottle in one dose and that MIGHT make an impact.

    Number one, it looks like its a random formula with not much significant bacteria in it at all. 180 million of almost every strain and too many strains. For the cost, which is low, it does not seem to be a good value for humans or dogs. With that said, I would like to know if anyone has had results with it.

    I’ve heard many good things about coconut oil and its an inexpensive way to address skin and coat issues. But I also know that coconut is a diuretic which could be a problem, proceed with caution. You may want to consider some canned pumpkin, which is a great natural way to keep the gut healthy too.

    #24404 Report Abuse
    labber
    Participant

    Kefir is dairy by the way, not so bueno for dogs and not very high in cultures to make a difference.

    My recommendation would be to feed raw whenever possible, then you don’t really need supplemental enzymes as much, although I’ve heard good things about enzyme supplementation.

    We use Probiotic Miracle which is great and are also a good price for how long the canister lasts. We sprinkle a bit in her meals every day and we notice a big difference when we lapse for too long.

    Been using Nordic Naturals for fish oil Omega-3. I don’t believe in giving wild salmon oil since it could have contaminants. Pure is the answer!

    #24409 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    PuppyLove: why are you surprised that some of us are using Dr Langers probiotics?

    #24412 Report Abuse
    somebodysme
    Participant

    Anyone know why a holistic vet would say that you should not feed a probiotic with FOS? I cannot find the article I read anymore but I specifically remember that it was about treating candida in a dog and the author said to use a probiotic but do not use one containing FOS. I have seen the probiotic recommended over and over and over here that is from Swanson’s and contains FOS. Why would you avoid FOS?

    I am currently giving PB8 to my dog and it is absolutely keeping the yeast at bay. I am giving her two pills a day for a 50 lb dog. She is on a potato based kibble right now due to allergies and even at that, the yeast is not causing her issues.

    #24440 Report Abuse
    puppylove
    Participant

    InkedMarie: I think I put the reasons why in my original post, but to explain further. 180 million of each species of bacteria is close to nothing, and from what I’ve read, the formula looks curiously random… AND… looks like its not intended for dogs. I’m guessing that they wanted to impress people with a “15 species” formula but could only afford to put a tiny amount of each in. This is why it is $14. You get what you pay for, but really, that’s just my humble critique. Are you using it with good results for your dog?

    Somebodysme: some people are in the camp that prebiotics are “bad” and feed bad bacteria. This is due to some hype marketing from a brand of probiotics that do not contain them (though I can’t recall the brand, I just remember reading it). The other camp is that prebiotics are necessary when giving probiotics so that they have something healthy to feed on, because once they are ingested they implant in the intenstines and multiply. Dr. Oz is in the latter camp which believes in prebiotics with probiotics.

    #24443 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Somebodysme

    They say FOS is the prebiotic that is most likely to feed the bad bacteria, if you are dealing with an overgrowth of bad bacteria then you might not want to do that.

    #24451 Report Abuse
    somebodysme
    Participant

    OH OK thanks. They just had said not to use FOS but did not say why. I’m a “WHY?” kind of person! HAHAHA!

    #24454 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Me Too!!

    #24492 Report Abuse
    pacer1978
    Participant

    Patty: Then should I discontinue with the Langer’s FoS probiotic? I’ve been giving it to my dogs every 2-3 days. They weren’t having any digestive issues before..but, I started giving them supplements based off what I’m reading here. The enzymes make sense when feeding kibble and I started both over the last month.

    I’m also not sure if this is coincidence with the supplements I’ve been giving over the last month, but wanted to run it by everyone on the forum that may be reading. Mia started to get a bit of diarrhea last night. I also noticed what appeared to be a little bit of blood in her stool this morning. I’m not as worried now as I was this morning after googling some causes. Some are as minor as a change in diet, which I just switched them from Solid Gold MMillenium to Earthborn Holistic. Perhaps I switched too fast because it stated that could be one of the causes. My other two seem fine, however. I know blood in stool could be a minor or serious issue, so I will keep an eye on her and see. But, now I’m concerned with reading that the Langer’s FOS may not be a good brand? Everything they get daily is below. Since this just started happening recently, the only thing that has changed in the last few days (since Sunday/Monday) is the food.

    Swanson’s digestive enzymes
    Coconut Oil
    Dasuquin (joint/hip)
    Fish oil (Pure Alaska Omegaโ„ข Salmon Oil) sold at Costco
    Langer’s 15-strain FOS probiotic

    #24498 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I’m sorry if you’ve answered this elsewhere, but my brain is leaking out right now, I have so much going on. Do you suspect a yeast overgrowth in your dog? Or some other bacterial overgrowth? If You believe you have a bacterial overgrowth, I would possibly not feed that probiotic for a few days, if you were feeding it every day. For a yeast overgrowth, I would wait to use it until you are seeing definite improvements. Now here is the real issue. If you have done everything you can to cut the carbs out of your dogs diet, then I wouldn’t worry about it at all. Simple carbs are the first choice of food for those nasties, so by cutting carbs you are already putting the bad guys on notice. If you cut out all food sources too quickly then you will get a massive die off, which sounds good on paper, but it doesn’t look good on your floor or smell good in your house. Slow die off is preferable, and the FOS you are feeding is not that much or that often.

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