[kvee]

I drink Amazing Grass Green Superfood. I was looking at the ingredients and it most of them are ingredients recommended by Dr. Becker to optimize a dog’s raw food diet.What do you think? Does it have “no-no” ingredients” or would it be a good idea to share this with my Susie?
All Products

[jakes mom]

Hi All, I am finding this raw food forum so interesting, just read it thru from beginning to end! I’m not ready to feed raw yet, actually got started on DFA to check the rating for my dog’s kibble. However, I’m wondering about adding some raw to Jake’s diet. He’s a beagle mix, 30ish pounds, 9 years old, good health. Can I just throw a chicken liver or 2 in with his kibble? Give him a wing or back as a treat? A chunk of stew beef now and then? Can he have a chicken thigh for dinner in place of his kibble some days? And what is this 2 week freeze I’ve heard mentioned? Do I need to freeze all meat before I give it to him? Am I killing a parasite by doing this? He loves fruits and vegies , he gets whatever I’m eating that day. Better to cook/steam them or just let him have it raw? Will still give kibble, at least for now so not worried about him needing supplements. Also, can I feed my cats the same way? Some chicken or beef in addition to their regular food? Can a cat chew up a chicken wing safely? Or more likely, a piece of a wing? Thanks!

[Gina N]

Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the input. The update on my Gus isn’t good ( for raw food.) He started out wonderfully ( except for some gas) but then within the last few days, he’s become very restless and itchy 🙁 he’s even starting to tunnel on the floor and the bottom of the couch. Not sure what to do because my vet wants him on a HD diet and from what I’ve read about those, they aren’t good. Thoughts? He was on Natures Variety lid lamb kibble, but got tired of it and seems to want only beef, but he needs limited ingredient and grain free.

[Jeff T]

Our dog has acid reflux. He was throwing up ( I think he’s actually just regurgitating, not really throwing up) about once or twice a week in the middle of the night and every now and then during the day while we are at work. We switched his food to Nutro chicken and oatmeal formula a couple of years ago and it seemed to control it pretty well. He only had an incident every other month or so. We’ve tried to give him Tums, per the vets recommendation, but he never would eat them.

About 2 months ago our dog got worse. He was throwing up (or regurgitate) every day. We have found that feeding him chicken and rice for a few days clears up these episodes and he’s back to normal. I started researching raw food and cooked food diets for him and now I’m making his food myself. I use chicken thighs (they are the cheapest), sweet potato, carrots, green beans, and blueberries. I throw it all in a slow cooker and when it’s done I remove the bones and mash it all up. I add 1/2 cup of dry food and 1/2 cup of rice when I’m ready to feed them and they love it. No more tummy issues and their farts smell 90% better. Or, is it 90% less bad? Either way, both dogs could clear out a room before.

The only part of the diet I haven’t solved yet is the supplements. It seems like there are good and bad things said about Dinovite, but I haven’t tried that yet. I’ve been using Nupro, and it seems to work ok.

[Dori]

TJ. When I initially started rotating foods a long time ago I would switch every two or three bags, then I started switching every bag. Always very very slowly. I eventually switched to commercial raw foods for all my three dogs because one of them has many food intolerances and allergies. I feed all three girls twice a day as I always have regardless of what I feed them and can now say, and it’s been a few months now, that I can feed them different foods a.m. and p.m. with no issues whatsoever. No gas, bad breath, diarrhea, constipation, nothing. I rotate their proteins within a brand, I rotate brands and I rotate their supplements. Nothing seems to bother them any more. Just as humans eat different foods for different meals without issues, so do my dogs. I will also say that they are incredibly healthy. I have a 14 1/2 year old Maltese (she’ll be 15 on 9/9/14) and I have a 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo and a 4 1/2 year old Yorkipoo. Vet is always praising how well they are. They only go to the vet at this point once a year for physical and the only vaccine they receive is rabbi’s vaccine. Hope any of this has helped.

Once you get your dogs accustomed to rotation, it has nothing whatsoever to do with their age. It is never too late to start rotating foods and they don’t take to rotation of diets any easier because they are young or old. Just take your time initially and before you know it you’ll be able to feed them different things all the time. Initially, like theBCnut, I used to add a complete probiotic and a digestive enzyme every day (not every meal). I haven’t done that in ages. Good Luck to you. Glad to meet you and welcome to the site if your new. If not, sorry I haven’t picked up on your name before.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

One of my dogs was very yeasty, the other two were mildly so. What worked for them was switching their diet and adding Mercola’s Complete Probiotics. The switch in their diet back then was to a grain, soy, rice, white potato, poultry free. All yeast, bad breath, horrendous gas issues, runny goopy eyes all went away. Also one of them had terribly dry skin. I later transitioned them to all raw and that is what they eat now.

Mercola Complete Probiotics is on the expensive side but I think it’s a really good company and product. It’s also a lot less expensive than being at the vet every time you turn around and being charged their outrageous prices for meds that don’t fix the actual problem, only the symptoms and then to add insult to injury they want you to feed your animals their horrible foods that the sell and get kick backs on.

[CSollers]

You were very nice not to laugh out loud at the comments “That, like our bodies, they can better digest processed foods (she brought up how when we were cavemen we ate a lot of uncooked food and just sat around digesting it all day)”. Please do not give in to the pressure and continue to feed your baby what you know is best for him. I’m no raw zealot, but the evidence is overwhelming. Most dogs thrive on a raw diet. I know that my two Pugs do.

[Shawna]

My Pomeranian Gizmo is also “poultry” intolerant. She gets bloody, liquid diarrhea (ulcerative colitis) from chicken. Duck, turkey, pheasant, quail and even ostrich cause eye goobers and coughing but doesn’t seem to affect her digestive tract (at least that is noticeable). At least not with short term feeding. She has absolutely no issue at all with any form of egg though. Not saying your baby will be the same just saying it is possible to be intolerant of poultry muscle proteins while being okay with egg, liver and other proteins from poultry.

After getting Gizmo off of chicken (she was about two at the time) it took about a year for her immune system to calm down. It took several months before I stopped seeing mucous in the stool if I remember correctly. Sometimes the stool was also a little partially mushy, or off and on, during the withdrawal (or detox) phase.

I used a fish based product called SeaCure to help repair her gut faster (again, it took about 2(ish) months for the gut but about a year for the immune system). Having your girl on medications could slow the healing process as the body also has to filter the drugs?? OHHH, NSAID’s of any sort (like Rimadyl) still to this day cause colitis in her after being on it for more than two to three days.

Pepcid AC makes protein digestion harder as it neutralizes the hydrochloric acid that is required in the process of breaking down proteins. For this reason some feel it can be counter productive. At the very least it is going to make the pancreas have to work harder to get the protein from the food. Glutamine is a supplement that is given to help with stomach damage. Glutamine is also an amino acid in protein. If the protein can’t be digested than the glutamine is not released for the body (and gut) to use. Many of us chose to use apple cider vinegar instead of an antacid. Here’s an article written by a Certified Nutrition Consultant if interested (she mentions the use of ACV for dogs in the article) http://www.naturalnutritionadvisor.com/blog/?p=73 (SeaCure helps in much the same way — it is simply fish protein that has been broken down to its simplest form allowing for the glutamine and other amino acids be easily utilized by the body.)

Hoping you are able to get it all figured out and get her healthy very quickly!! I can honestly say I know what you are going through!!!!

Edit — I agree with Shasta. If you can do raw (or a commercial cooked diet) it is SO much easier to control the ingredients!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[Shasta220]

Have you tried any other home made diets? I think there are a few other raw premixes out ther. See Spot Live Longer and Sojos are the two I can think of right off the top. A home made diet would probably be a lot easier to adjust the ingredients on to keep those ones out.
Edit: have you tried all the commercial raw foods? /best-dog-foods/raw-dog-food/ I haven’t looked at them all to see if there are any free of poultry, but there’s a chance…

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shasta220.

[Shawna]

Hi Melissa,

Vet Dr. Karen Becker has a video interview with a Newfie breeder who is also a human and pet chiropractor. He has very sound dogs and feeds a HIGH protein raw diet. He had one female Newfie live to age 17. Of course not everyone is in a position to feed raw, especially to a Newf, but wanting to demonstrate that protein isn’t an issue. They have scientific data supporting that conclusion as well.. That same data lists excess calcium and over feeding as problems. It’s in the forum comments HDM mentions.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/04/05/how-a-newfoundland-pet-dog-reached-17-years.aspx

[Shasta220]

I was looking around in a pet boutique today, and saw Sojos brand premix. You just add water and your own meat. https://www.sojos.com/products/dog-food/sojos-original-dog-food-mix

Is that a good one, or is it just too high in carbs? I’ve never had the chance to do a home made diet mainly because of the high cost and resource issues. But this stuff looked very affordable. I think a 10lb bag (supposed to make 48lb when mixed with raw meat/water) was $25.

I know there are much better options out there, but I’m just wondering what your opinions are on it. Would it be worth looking into as a start for home made? Or would a 4-5 star kibble still be better?

[Shawna]

I agree with the others that fresh food is better be it cooked or raw — if you can do fresh that is. Kibble is the hardest form of food to digest and it may make him uncomfortable??

I agree with Dr. Tabitha about adding digestive enzymes and probiotics.

Canned or especially raw tripe often will entice a picky eater. It is very pungent but dogs seem to love the stuff. If you get a complete and balanced kind you can feed it as the sole food. If not balanced you can mix it in with the other food to coat it. Sardines might be worth trying. Smelly and a good source of omega 3 fats. Some dogs find Parmesan cheese irresistible (as long as there is not a sensitivity to dairy). Answer’s makes a fermented goat milk product that dogs really really seem to like. The kibble could be soaked in it. I started adding a little bit of “BLUE ICE Infused Coconut Oil” to all eight of my dogs’ diets several months ago. Not only do they LOVE LOVE LOVE the stuff but their teeth are cleaner since using and my Pom with OCD has really come out of her shell. At first I thought I was imagining it but it is so obvious that everyone in the family has commented on it. It is pricey up front but a little goes a long way. http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm (Thanks to HDM for mentioning this product.)

Hope you find something that works for you and your little one!!

[Shawna]

I agree with the others about feeding a rotational diet over just one food. Three of my eight dogs get a rotational kibble diet with canned and raw toppers. I use Orijen, Acana, Earthborn Primitive Naturals, Nature’s Variety, Nature’s Logic and many others off and on (Wellness, Fromm, Merrick, Back to Basics etc).

Raw egg with the shell is a really good and inexpensive topper. Another is beef, deer or chicken heart mixed with Steve’s Real Food premix. Heart is usually inexpensive to begin with but a friend gets free beef hearts from her butcher for me… And a hunter friend gives me the parts of the deer he doesn’t use himself.

[rogerharris]

Good try! Yes raw bones with meat are very good diet meal for dog. Bone is natural and good for dog health. I also give my dog a bone with chicken in every meals .

[Naturella]

Steven A, I would definitely advise you to try all of the above suggestions. Rotational diet is good anyway. 🙂

Also, I have fed Blue Buffalo Wilderness for about 4 months or so just fine. Acana and Orijen I have not tried yet. A good one, and pretty affordable, is Dr. Tim’s, as well as Victor. I usually look for deals both in stores and online and was able to snatch a 4-lb bag of Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpea for $5 on Petflow, no kidding! 🙂

Other foods I’ve fed that are good are Holistic Health Extensions, Earthborn Holistic – currently on the fish one, Nature’s Variety Instinct + Raw Boost and Now Fresh (on samples), and I will be feeding some of Victor, Back to Basics, Wellness Core, AvoDerm, Merrick, Nature’s Variety, and more in the near future. ALL grain-free too.

Of those, I think Wellness Core and Blue Buffalo Wilderness are moderately affordable; Victor, Dr. Tim’s, and Earthborn Holistic seem to be very affordable; the rest I have coupons for/will scout deals for, lol.

[Brandy R]

Thanks theBCnut,
I tried it and they all did wonderful my 10 month old 30# Beagle wasn’t sure what to do at first and he is usually my gulper! It took him a minute but he figured it out and chomped it down chewing the entire time. I am extremely excited to be getting my dogs on the raw diet. I can already tell just the chewing is going to help their teeth tremendously:) i’ll be back here watching and learning more vital info and maybe more questions. Hopefully one day be able to answer a question or two…lol

[aquariangt]

What about purchasing raw or dehydrated raw if you want to keep them on that kind of diet? Of the two you mentioned, I trust wellness more than blue, but blue in and of itself isn’t terrible

[Steven A]

I’ve had my to Dachshunds on a raw diet for three years. I can no longer keep up the pace processing my own Raw diet for them. Chicken Neck, Beef Heart Liver and Ground Organ mix. All purchased from a local slaughter house. It is time to head back to Kibble(don’t stone me) I know for years I praised the Raw Diet. I just can’t do it any more so I’m heading back to a grain free kibble. Any suggestions on how to do it and what brand to get? Leaning toward Wellness brand or Blue Buffalo……

[Ann-Marie M]

My 12 year old mini Schnauzer had loose stools and was stooling in his crate and around the house. I changed him to Stella and Chewy’s raw frozen diet and now he is fine!

[Ann-Marie M]

My mini schnauzer who is now 12 was eating Canidae dry food and started having problems stooling in his crate and around the house in the middle of the night. Initially I just thought it was his age but then changed him to a raw frozen diet. I started with Nature’s Variety Instinct but changed to Stella and Chewy’s when I found out they are a local company and that Nature’s Variety Instinct gets their rabbit from China. The raw diet completely fixed the problem. He stopped having loose stools in his crate and around the house! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ann-Marie M.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ann-Marie M.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you do your homework and find a good supplier, a homemade raw diet is comparable in price to a 4-5 star kibble. I, like Melissa, get my meat from a restaurant supplier and I pay well under $1lb. most of my RMBs and offal. The only thing I’ll have to pay a bit more for is beef. Beef is pretty pricey compared to poultry and pork.

[Dori]

Does anyone have any thoughts on distilled water for dogs? Would there be any long term negative effects giving only distilled water to dogs that are fed solely commercial raw diets? I know that water contains needed minerals but if you have a water filtration system removing minerals, chlorine, etc. would the dogs be receiving all the minerals that they need from their raw diets?

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Brandy R]

Thanks Hound dog mom i will definitely try the larger RMB’s first. My only concern about taking them away is will my dogs get aggressive? They are very territorial when they use to get chew bones. For the most part they didn’t growl or snap at me but would fight each other horribly and then if i would try taking the bone away they would snap at me. My husband and i are nervous this raw food diet will make them extremely aggressive with each other and us. With their kibble we have taught the dogs that its ok for my husband myself and our children to pet them while they eat and even stick our hands in the food bowl or take the bowl away. They are all great with the kibble and even eat together side by side in the kitchen (they have their own little corner where they eat.

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[theBCnut]

MastiffLove, post your questions in the raw feeding topic and maybe the right person will see them.

Arlosmom, he will probably need his leg splinted for a few weeks and he will definitely need his diet adjusted. Don’t wait on this or the damage could be permanent.

Liz O, when it come to calcium levels, the amount of calories in the food determines the actual amount of calcium that the pup will consume so if one food is lower calorie that another that seems equivalent, it might actually supply more calcium to the puppy. Also, the labeling laws only require a minimum to be listed. HDM contacted all of these companies and asked for their as fed calcium levels, which can be quite different. Some companies didn’t respond, so they wouldn’t make the list anyways, but many, many were just too high, including almost all of the LBP formulas. Just stick to the list.

[Brandy R]

Hi All,
I have been doing a lot of research about the BARF diet for my K9 babies and come across this forum. I live in St. Louis MO, have 4 dogs. 6 yr old Jack Russell (Bella)-overweight at 19.4 lbs, 2 yr old Jack Russell/Shih tzu mix (Candy)-rescued her she is perfect at 15.4 lbs, 2 yr old Shihshon (shih tzu/bichon frise mix) (Falcor)-very submissive but perfect 17 lbs and last but not least my 10 month old beagle (Brutus)-he is my problem child right now weighing in at 30.2 lbs he has separation anxiety terrible-inside and out. Will tear the house apart if left inside and digs up my tree outside….super rotten but I love him dearly.
I am extremely nervous about starting a raw diet mainly because I want to gag thinking about all the raw boney foods they will be eating and gnawing on…yuk but also scared they will choke on bones. Candy is not a gulper but the other 3 inhale their kibble and its even worse when i add egg or yogurt or cottage cheese to it. I can’t imagine what they would do with a chicken back or neck or any other raw meaty bone for that matter. Any suggestions? Also I read to feed them 2% of their ideal weight per day split into 2 meals, does that sound right?
I recently started eating healthy myself (more veggies and meat-less carbs) and have been concerned about my Bella and how overweight she is, so i started doing some research and that’s when I came across the raw diet and what I have read it seems to be so much healthier for my dogs. I want to keep them healthy and happy for many more years without breaking the bank in the process.
It seems if I can find a distributor that would be extremely cheap. I plan to stop by a couple local grocery stores and meat markets in the next few days to speak with the Butcher about getting some parts they don’t sell.

[Dori]

On the question of why didn’t Weruva made the cut, I don’t know, maybe it’s because they can no longer say that their cans do not contain bha?

I’m thrilled that THK and Primal are on Dr. Mike’s list. Primal is my most favorite of the commercial raws. I wasn’t surprised to see Ziwipeak on it. It’s always gotten good reviews everywhere especially their canned food that is bha free. I looked into it once because I thought it would be nice to have something different on hand other than THK as a change from their raw diets but it is incredibly expensive. One of my dogs can’t have THK because of the alfalfa.

I was surprised though that Answers did not make the list. Also Darwin’s didn’t make the list. That kind of shocked me as I was sure it would be.

I’m so thrilled that the Editor’s Choice is up and running. Truly excited.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Shasta220]

I don’t know too much about allergies, but I honestly don’t recommend Hills at all. It sounds like it’s probably some sort of food allergy. Dogs can get sensitive to the most inconvenient things like chicken, rice, potatoes, tomatoes, etc. I wonder if getting an allergy test or doing an elimination diet might help?

If the allergies at all seem seasonal, then there’s the slight chance that honey might help. It has to be raw and local, add a spoonful to her meal every day. It’ll probably only help if they /are/ seasonal allergies, but I’ve known people who had dogs with disgusting skin, and had miracle transformation after being on that!

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[CSollers]

If it’s available where you live, K9 Kravings is about the least expensive prepared raw I’ve found. FWIW, you’ll probably be saving money in the long run in vet bills when you feed a raw diet.

[CSollers]

Our old vet prescribed Hills when one of our Pugs, Minni, had Struvite issues. After a bit of research, we switched her to prepared raw with absolutely no more problems. Both Pugs have been on a raw diet for around four years and are thriving. We rotate proteins and manufacturers to ensure they get all of the different macro-nutrients. The AAFCO standard is a minimum standard, and does not differentiate for bio-availabilty of nutrients. Low quality food with nutrients/vitamins that cannot be absorbed by the animal’s GI tract may meet the standard.

[Dori]

The vets have just been taking your money. To me it sounds as though this is entirely a food issue as well as the touch of arthritis. A fabulous commercial raw diet is Darwin’s. It can only be purchased on line on their site. If you ever think about adding a commercial raw you can try them. They are an auto delivery service also first time buyers get a great deal. Anyway you can check out their site and see what you think. A lot of us swear by them. And yes, commercial raw is more expensive than kibble BUT, you save so much in vet bills it’s not even funny. Since on raw my dogs only go to the vet for their yearly physical. That’s it. Before that I was with Katie at one vet or specialist constantly. Expensive, time consuming and lots of used up gas. I hate the fact that they put your dog on steroids. They cause so much damage, the steroids as well as some vets. I’ve never known of any dog or person (myself included) that was ever made allergy free with the injections. Please check the ingredients in the Natural Balance. If she’s itching on this food than I would change it. It’s obviously got ingredients that she can’t tolerate.

[Lea J]

dchassett, appreciate your response. Did not put a whole lot of stock in allergy tests-and injections just seemed silly and did not help one bit. One vet had her on oral steroids- which helped but at what cost?! Needless to say, weaned her off. Currently, she is on Natural balance and home made “glop” (meat, veggies, fruits mixed in processor) I give her Benadryl when she seems uncomfortable by itching and/or drives me crazy with her itching. I am going to try the Springtime Joint Health as well. I am a bit reluctant to start the raw diet as I live in a small town in Alabama and resources for this sort of thing commercially are limited except via internet. We have been to five different vets over the years and each has a different expensive test to order! I am going to take your advice and try more homemade.

[MastiffLove]

Sharon,

Thanks again for your reply!

After talking about all the dog food kibbles and other food types we can give to our puppy and reading and watching videos on http://healthypets.mercola.com/ (thanks HDM) me and my wife decided that we will go raw! It might end up being more costly in the end but at least we will know for sure what is precisely in his dog food and we can have a better control on his diet plus it just makes sense to feed him that way …you don’t find kibbles in the wild!

I’ve ordered Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats Cookbook, Probiotics, Krill Oil and Spirugreen Superfood, that way i’ll have everything on hand for whatever needs our dog has. (just mentioning what i bought so far, still more to come for a complete diet like Coconut Oil and such).

I am currently researching for a meat manufacturer that provides food stores to get the best price, luckily for me there are several in my area.

We have bought the breeders kibble (1st Choice Large pup) for the first 3 weeks, then i was thinking of switching him to Orijen (i know the calcium lvl is a bit high) for the next 2 weeks to get him on a better kibble. Then mix Orijen and Raw to finally end up to only raw.

Should i switch 1st Choice and mix it with raw after the first 3 weeks and increase the raw dosage and skip Orijen entirely?…i don’t know, it would be a faster way to get him on a better and proper food balance but he would be on 1st Choice longer and honestly i really dislike the ingredient in that kibble.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

I was reading over my notes from a recent raw feeding conference and it isn’t just meat that will throw off the calcium/phosphorus in your dog’s diet. Having spent the better part of a few months researching bone health before getting my Mystery, I had asked the question about how to ensure he wouldn’t get too much calcium on a raw diet – even though eight months later, he was now able to process excess calcium (he won’t be our last puppy).

“Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”

That was the answer from Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist who raises champion Newfoundlands. She has a wonderful book called Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats.

[Dori]

Hey Shasta 220. I have to admit that I’ve used quite a few different water additives for my dogs teeth and none of them ever did anything. The only thing I have ever found that helps their teeth is a raw diet and brushing their teeth twice a day. I brush their teeth after their breakfast right after I brush my own after my breakfast and before their bedtime right before I brush mine before my bedtime. I have found that kibble was the worst for their teeth regardless of the fact that the old myth continues that kibble helps with cleaning teeth. Ridiculous.

[Shasta220]

I would probably agree with Sue. Picky eaters are easy to form, hard to UNform! Skipping a meal or two will not hurt him (I know some dog owners who fast their dogs for a day once every week or two even.). Is he overweight or are you concerned about keeping weight on him?

I’ve not dealt with picky dogs before, since I try to keep my food fairly consistent with my dogs. Only one guy was picky, so I just offered him the same food. He ended up going hungry for about 2 days, then finally ate and hasn’t had a problem since.

I do have a picky cat, so I totally feel you – she refuses ANY cat food, so she has to be on a raw diet. Have you considered doing your own homemade diet for your guy, or are you going to give commercial foods one more shot?

[Margie W]

My 8 year old lab that I currently cook for (tried the raw but he wouldn’t eat it- immediately regurgitated it) is on a high protein high fat diet (due to cancer diagnosis for spindle cell sarcoma a year ago) I steam veggies mix with cottage cheese and egg and then add canned mackeral. I use RX Vitamin onco support in the evening, Berte green blend morning and evening and Berte immune blend in the AM. He’s also on a holistic regimen of Carcinosin and Thuja (which we began after a recurrence of the spindle cell and that is now in remission) He’s been having issues with mucus in his stool and some diarrhea (sporadically) for the past couple of months. He’s been on two rounds of metronidazole- his poops are fine during the medication and then for sometime after. But now he’s had another mucusy soft poop. Wondering if adding probiotics would help but also want to know if he’s getting some already in what I’m giving him. Don’t want to overdo the supplements. I’ve looked at the Mercola probiotic which doesn’t seem to have any of the ingredients that are in the other things he’s getting. Trying to keep this short but my Rupert is complicated! Any help would be appreciated.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!

[Pugsonraw]

Hi Dchassett,

I took both my pugs off several supplements right now (not just Springtime)… I have food & allergy tests run about every 6 months and this time around something I’m giving them triggered for NutraSweet in it as well as some of the normal food allergies I usually see. I’m not sure what it is so I’ve completely scaled back to rotating in a few of these things:
organic coconut oil, mercola krill oil, mercola enzymes and probiotics, braggs apple cider vinegar, and a hypoallergenic phycox joint supplement. I’ve used these over the year… and these have not triggered anything for the pugs. Not sure where the NutraSweet came from but I don’t want it in their diet.

Just when I think I’m wining the battle with their allergies or food choices, something changes…. and Spring is here in CA! My pugs are so different and it is hit and miss with products I try… what works for one, makes the other super itchy…

I have been looking at the Bug Off garlic though… even ordered the granules but they have not arrived yet. I was just at the vets yesterday and they were trying to suggest accuguard which is an oral pill.

Not sure if this helps but I find sometimes you just need to test it out, cross your fingers and see how it goes…

Dawn aka Pugsonraw…

[Sharon Buchanan]

GoldenMom ~ I don’t know what you finally decided on for feeding your new Golden but hold off on antlers. One – you don’t want to add more calcium to his diet and two – you don’t want to damage his teeth. Mystery just turned one and I’ve only recently gotten him his first antler. I feed him raw so he’s got the whole bone crushing thing down, though I watch him like a hawk when he’s gnawing on the antler.

[Shasta220]

Yesss I know I know! He has good intentions, and does put the ointment on until the spot goes away, but like I say – it’s like putting perfume on body odor. It masks it, but ain’t gonna take it away.

What just irks me THE most is that danged Beneful!!! You can buy 4 star foods for the same price, if not less! I somewhat understand someone needing to feed a cheap food due to tight budget, but this guy does not have a tight budget… He thinks he spoils them by buying Puperoni, rawhide chews, and Beggin Strips *long depressed sigh*

I’m glad you guys totally understand me though. I’ll admit, there was a time when I thought that the fancier packaging, various colors/shapes, and “wholesome soy” in Beneful was healthy; but I was a seven year old girl. Ya can’t blame me. By the time I was 11-12 (when I got my first personal puppy), I was aware of the fact that dogs need quality of some sort. I’ll admit, I was content when my folks bought a bag of food with bone meal or by-product as the first ingredient, but hey! For being uneducated, at least I had enough common sense to know animal products are needed in a dog’s diet.

[Shasta220]

It does sound like you need to take a slow approach to food, Patty and Sue gave good suggestions – starting with only a couple ingredients at a time, since he probably has many allergies.

There’s the slight possibility that he’s reacting to environment as well. Maybe try an anti fungal shampoo to see if it helps, and if it’s environmental allergies, possibly trying to give him coconut oil and raw LOCAL honey daily? That seems to have helped my sensitive lab a whole lot when diet alone wasn’t quite cutting it. Plus, the coconut oil helps oral health and makes super soft fur 🙂

[Susan]

Have you tried the elimination diet where he just eat 1 food for 1 month like kangaroo or chicken or fish Etc then if that meat seems ok then after 1 month add something new here’s a diet for yeasty itchy skin
1cup ground beef human
1/4 cup beef liver or kidney
2 eggs scrambled or boiled
1/2 cup steamed or boiled broccoli
1/2 cup cooked yellow crookneck squash
1/2 cup yogurt
serve meat cooked or raw combined with the cooked vegetables eggs & yogurt, If serving the meat cooked wait for it to cool before stirring in the yogurt..
intstead of the beef mince u can use chicken mince, pork mince or a tin of salmon or mackerel drained..
This was from this book called ‘Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs’ The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals by Lew Olson PhD… an excellent read explaining all health problems & what to feed dogs, there was more meals for skin problems, I just borrowed it from my Library…its raw & cooked Healthy meals, also a good shampoo is needed like Oatmeal shampoos..

[Tammi H]

I have tried many types of dry food for my Shepherd, we have even had him on two different types of prescription food. He still has itching. The vet suggested allergy testing, not sure I want to go that route. My boyfriend wants to try the raw diet, but I am not sure about that either, because he itches so much I am not sure where we would eve begin. Any suggestions?

[theBCnut]

You need asystematic approach to discovering his allergies. He is likely allergic to more than one thing, and it isn’t just meats that you have to figure out. Plant matter has protein in it too and can cause these reactions. I understand that you don’t want to do a raw diet, but you need to do an elimination diet at least temporarily. You need to give him one protein and one starch for a few weeks, nothing else, and see if that takes care of the itching. If not, you need to try a different protein and a different starch for a few weeks and see if that stops the itching. Once you find something that he doesn’t react to, you can start adding back one ingredient at a time to his diet every couple weeks to see if he starts reacting. Then you will be able to figure out what specifically to avoid.

Some people get lucky and can find a Limited Ingredient Diet that works to start this process with, and if you want to try that route, your best bet is to try different varieties of Natural Balance or maybe Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Rabbit. You need to keep ingredient lists of foods you have tried that didn’t work and try to figure out what they have in common. If you find a food that works, you need to compare its ingredient list to figure out what it doesn’t have in it.

It’s quite a bit of detective work, but once you know what to avoid it is easier.

[GizmoMom]

I’ve been feeding THK Preference with ground meat. I rotate the proteins between bison, beef and chicken. Gizmo also gets raw chicken neck for teeth cleaning about 3 times a week. I add ground flax seed and coconut oil to his food. He’s been on this diet since January, and this seems to be working best for him.

Before this I’ve tried just about anything. High end kibbles, freeze dried, canned, premade raw, PMR. He’s a picky dog and sometimes would refuse to eat. THK is the only food that he hasn’t turned his nose up.

[T S]

We have two male JRTs (5 & 7 yrs) and a female Labrottie (9 yrs). After seeing ads and getting some samples from a local rep, we tried the Blue Buffalo–dogs rejected it outright. We tried the Wild stuff, various flavors, and inevitably at least one of the three turned up their noses at each flavor of the food. Talked to vets, who sell canned Canin and Hills, about allergies, food ingredient quality, flavor variety. Went back to Fromms, tried three different flavors (chicken, beef and pork), and all three dogs are happy with the dry pork & applesauce formula. They’re energetic, different vets are all REALLY happy with all 3 of their overall health, especially weight maintenance vs activities levels, and their coats, teeth and skin are all great. None smells, they all sleep and BM on schedule w/o problems. We looked at MANY of the so-called ‘holistic’ and ‘organic’ foods. Local pet store guy recommended some ‘natural’ and raw foods, but it made no sense to change from what’s working now. Fromm’s is US made, only US ingredients, and no recalls we know of. We don’t feed them ANY human food, and they almost never get snacks or treats–so no threat of allergic reactions. Labrottie came to us from a poor-quality non-US food diet, and she’s a much happier, healthier, energetic dog now.