Can I ask 2 question Raylene was ur boy eating grass at ur old place on walks or where ever he could get grass or has it just started at ur new place & after eating the grass does he throw up or have any sloppy poos or diarreha?? maybe the fat content is a bit too high at the moment for his tummy.. I’d love to feed my boy raw but he needs a low fat diet so I cook instead & freeze the meals & do kibble at night…Maybe just try for 1-2 weeks lightly boiling the meat to get out some of the fats & see if he still eats grass after cooking the meat… its worth at try just to work out is he feeling off or sick or does he just like eating grass..
When I see my boy eating grass I know he only eats grass when he’s feeling off or has his stomach acid & has to vomit or when he has Colitis he’ll eat a heap of grass then 1-2 hours later he’ll poo & diarrhea everything out of his system & clears himself out..
Betsy Greer:
Thanks for the Nature’s Logic product name. I am slowly looking into adding some raw food to everyone’s diets and this will be helpful. In the meantime, I have added this to the list of products pertaining to raw diets that have been mentioned on DFA. 🙂
BCn:
Thanks for the info. Although I will not be feeding raw to my kitties for their meals (yet), thanks for the explanation on frozen meat. I started looking around for sites with info for feeding raw to cats. I would like to start introducing them to some raw just not a whole diet at this time. I plan on purchasing Steve Brown’s book in the near future, in the meantime I had downloaded the PDF from his site a few months ago. I wish I could find something written as simplistic for cats.
Akari:
Too funny, was it on or off?
I conquer with BCn and Jakes mom; he seems to be getting enough liquid at this time. I would continue with preparing his food as usual and not add anything else. It may have just been the new litter. Some cats just don’t like change! He’s had allot of change lately so you can’t really blame him. 😉
I bought a huge package of gizzards and hearts today for $1.33. Two of my cats just sniffed it and walked away. lol Bobby snatched a few chunks from me, ran out into the yard, spit them out then began playing with them. I am not discouraged. I am going to chop them up a little finer and see how that goes. If they still are not interested, I am going to cook them lightly and see how they like that. I have a bunch of them to play around with so if nothing else I will be making some kind of dog treat out of them.
Hi apologises if there is already a post regarding which puppy/dog food is the best but I am rather new to all this.
We are collecting our 8 week old Labrador puppy called ‘Charlie’ next week. He is currently on IAMs puppy food. When I researched puppy food to find the best online deals it opened up a whole can of worms. Lots of different brands started to grab my attention. Which would you say is the best dry food. As much as the ‘raw diet’ sounds appealing it is just not achievable. I am a busy full time mummy of 5 children ranging from 6-years to 2-years so do not want to commit to that sort of high maintenance diet.
I would be very grateful of any help. Never had a dog before
I’ve been looking at Natures Variety for him, actually. The canned, and sort of the raw lol About how much do the different raw diets cost? I’ve got three or so of those $3 off coupons they just mailed me, so that’s a possibility.
Here’s a picture of one of the things of pee I pulled out tonight. This one is how big they usually are, much larger than how they’ve been the last few days.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/740D3329-D7AA-45D0-90DB-F88C23A9B971_zpsvknjujts.jpg
Does this mean that maybe he doesn’t have a UTI, since he’s apparently able to produce this amount of urine?
Can anyone suggest a low protein food that I don’t have to get from my vet? Right now my yorkie is on a Purina low protein prescription and his allergies are back. Previously he was eating Instinct with Raw bits. But since his diagnosis he can’t have a high protein diet. So now that seems to leave me with all these grain foods which upsets his allergies again. The food he is on now is 12% protein. Any suggestions?
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This topic was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by
Tracy O. Reason: wrong forum
My cat has been on a raw diet for the past two years. He was on canned with water mixed in previously, and has been on the Natures variety chicken medallions since then. I can feed him (9lb, 4 year old male) for less than $1 a day (I get 48 medallions for $17, would be even cheaper if I did the parties or chubs but the medallions are SO convenient!).
I mush his food with water the same as I did his canned food. He was easy to convert, but I’ve heard cats can be extremely difficult. He won’t touch the Honest Kitchen trials I bought him. He will still eat canned and dry (he only gets that when I have to travel overnight).
I started him on raw after he got a UTI. He has gotten one since then, when we moved last year (his are definitely stress induced), but the raw seems to help and his coat and teeth are great!
I think commercial raw might be a good way to start and try to transition, and I think you can usually get a $3 coupon on the natures variety website for new customers.
I also have a fountain…he doesn’t really use it much, I think because I add water to all of his meals (3 a day). But I keep the fountain since I have seen him drink from it occasionally.
New here…. Have recently added to Alaskan Huskies to our family. Have done some research and learning regarding commercial dog food, raw diet, a combo, etc. Still looking to locate a source for raw: chicken, beef, pork, beaver, goat, etc. I know that there are such sources in my area but I have yet to check in to them. I look forward to learning all that I can here!!! At first, when I thought about feeding my k9’s RAW food, I thought OH MY! Then I began to consider what they would eat, and have eaten, out in the wild 🙂
Hi Bcn:
I have a few questions about raw for my kitties too, if you don’t mind sharing. Honestly, I have not researched feeding raw to cats so please excuse my ignorance on the subject. I want to feed some raw to enhance their commercial food diet and help clean their teeth. I was looking for something I can pick up at the grocery store to experiment with.
Is dicing up beef or lamb a good choice? Or are their better options?
What types of meat on the bone are good for cats?
Would ground meat be okay to feed?
What other cuts/organs are good to feed? For example, are gizzards or hearts good for them?
Does the raw need to be frozen before feeding or can it be fed straight from the store?
I’ve just kinda skimmed through the past few posts, but I read “Patch smells like yeasts my friend said it’s like mold.” I knew a dog once who had that distinct smell. They couldn’t figure out anything in his diet! and they bought an anti fungal shampoo (I believe it was Malaseb), have never had the problem since. The dog didn’t have any itching though, so I still think Patch probably has allergies… There’s that slight chance he might also have a skin fungus and shampoo would help clear it up.
If he has any outdoor allergies, have you any access to local raw honey? I know of some super allergy prone dogs that get a spoonful of raw honey every day and can now go outside in the worst allergy seasons without a problem.
Just because a dog is “senior” doesn’t mean it has these problems. All those problems can potentially happen at any age. I’ve fostered many dogs under 5 (even as young as 1 yr) with joint/eye/digestion/ear issues and have needed hip/knee surgeries and prescription eye and ear drops. A healthy senior can eat regular food (adult, maintenance and all life stages, puppy food). I have a 14 yr old with no active health issues. He is blind and deaf which he was already when I got him last year at 13. He is not on any medications and eats the same foods as all the other foster dogs I have. I use 3.5-4.5 star kibble and top it off with 5 star canned foods which is normally at least 43% protein. He even gets some raw food which I usually make without any plant matter. The dogs get joint supplements and vitamins, antioxidants, supergreen supplements and fish oil. My personal dogs don’t get chemical pesticides which has been linked to some cancers nor do they get unnecessary vaccines. You might want to research “over vaccination”. Try looking up Dogs4dogs dot com, b-naturals dot com, wholedogjournal dot com, dogsnaturallymagazine dot com. These are just a few of the sites pertaining to more “natural” care of dogs. If one of my dogs had late stage kidney disease, at that point I would change the diet, but I wouldn’t change the diet just because they’re a senior in general. Some things possibly connected to cancer is chemical laden commercial kibble, vaccines, the constant application of poisonous pesticides (heartworm and flea/tick meds, fertilizers), even air pollution.
http://dogs4dogs.com/
Tabitha, good points – I don’t think it’s the nutrition because I try to supplement Bruno’s kibble diet with RMBs and raw eggs, sardines, coconut oil, yoghurt/kefir, pumpkin, flax seeds, and the occasional dog-friendly fruit/veggie bits, as well as canned food.
Now, the boredom might be it. Both the hubs and I go to school full time and work part-time, so poor guy sometimes only gets 30min-1hr walks instead of a good playtime in the dog park or good training session. We have 2 brain-stimulating doggie board games that we need to whip out more often… so that could definitely be part of it. Even with my busy schedule I try to take him to the dog park at least 2-3 times/week, weather and time permitting, but when I injured my back last Sunday I wasn’t able to take him out at all thi s week. BUT, I also try to play chase with him for 15-30min in the evenings, but I can definitely look into more options… thanks for some suggestions, Carlyn! 🙂
TParticipant
A commercial raw diet may be the easiest way for you to try a very low carbohydrate diet for your dog. The major brands are relatively easy to feed (frozen patties) and contain all the vitamins and minerals to sustain life long-term. For example, Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw frozen patties have very low carb content.
Tabitha
Here’s an article on my blog about a few brands of commercial raw food:
http://naturalalternativesvet.com/cooked-and-raw-dog-food-comparison/
Hi Jakes mom:
If you get any recommendations for feeding raw to your kitties, would you mind posting it on this thread? I won’t be switching to a complete raw diet since I don’t have the freezer space, but I have enough freezer space to accomodate a dog and five cats for a few meals each per week if they like it. I honestly haven’t taken the time to look into feeding raw to my kitties, but I always like reading about everyone’s experiences as well as any suggestions someone might have.
I am going to see if Bobby likes turkey necks. He has beautiful teeth at four, but I would like to try and interest him in chewing bones. When I give him a bone the first thing he does is run off to bury it. He doesn’t even eat the fresh meat on it, he’s more interested in burying the bone than eating it. Maybe a turkey neck will be more appealing, who knows.
C4c let me know about a website earlier this week, catsadored.com. We were discussing litter boxes earlier in this thread, don’t know if you read any of it. Anyway, this guy has an interesting suggestion for litter that he feels is comparable to “The World’s Best Cat Litter,” which I have never used so IDK. I think I am going to give it a try this summer just to try it. Check it out if you have time.
Akari:
I have been referring to your cat by Gary and Roger, sorry. Which one is it again?
Hey all. I currently feed The Honest Kitchen and I love it for my Shih Tzu. However, he is a Gold/White Parti and is beard is always green even after washing his face after he eats. I’m considering changing his diet to a combination of Merrick dry and Primal Pronto raw. Anyone feeding either of these? If so, how is it working for you?
Thank you, Amy
Yes, Im reading a book called ‘Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs’ By Lew Olson, PhD..She recommends a Low-Glycemic diet, high in protein & fat & low Carbohydrates…there are stories through out her book, one is about a dog called Jake a Doberman/Labrador mix, who started to have seizures when he was 3 years old, Jake was whats called a “Cluster” meaning he always had multiple seizures close together, Despite trying everything from conventional medications to acupuncture, his owner Jo was unable to get the seizures under control.. After exhausting all the usual medical avenues, Jo started to look elsewhere for alternative treatments, joining an online Epilepsy group, one of the things recommened by the group was a raw diet. With nothing else left to lose Jo started Jake on a new raw diet, Within five months Jake had gone from having seven seizures every two weeks to one a month, Her vet was astonised at the drastic improvement a raw, fresh food diet had made when all the other treatments failed..There’s more on how she explains how the sugar in carbohydrates can affect epilepsy, hypothyroidism, diabetes, allergies, arthritis, & yeast infections & how a low-glycemic diet is a good defense against all of these conditions.. Dogs dont have a nutritional need for carbohydrates..there’s more to read but too much to write..she has simple recipes in her book for illnesses, its an excellent read, its online for around $10..
Thank you Shawna for clarifying Dr Dodds stance on raw diets and hyperthyroidism!!!
To clarify — Dr. Dodds is still not recommending “against” raw diets but is certainly warning about feeding an imbalanced raw diet… Something myself, BCnut, HDM and many other raw feeders here completely agree with..
This is what Dr. Dodds says about raw (same article as above).
“The rationale behind the concept of BARF (an acronym for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) is that this is the type of diets dogs were programmed to eat during their evolutionary development (6). Therefore, the BARF diet represents a biologically-appropriate food for dogs, rather than cooked or processed foods. With a BARF diet, the perfect meal would contain muscle meat, bone, fat, organ meats, vegetable and fruit materials combined in precisely the correct balance, just as nature intended.”
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This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by
Shawna.
You and I remember that conversation slightly differently aimee..
My entire “initial” comment was
“I imagine they would have to eat a lot of thyroids to overdose on iodine that way.? Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.
I don’t think even one of the raw diets I feed contains any thyroid (or gullet). The supplements I use do but not the foods.” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204301377
Shortly after I posted (this is only a portion of the post)
“Dr. Dodds actually does have an article regarding this study..
“Dr. Peterson’s “Bottom Line”:
In man, community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis,” resulting from inadvertent consumption of ground beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland, have been previously reported (3,4). These outbreaks resulted in the banning of “gullet trimming,” in which meat in the neck region of slaughtered animals is ground into hamburger……
…..In the dogs of this report, it is obvious that the correct balance was not maintained and a very large amount of raw thyroid gland tissue ended up in their raw meat diet. As is the case with the exogenous L-T4, these natural thyroid hormones are not destroyed by gastric acid and can then be absorbed, leading to high concentration of circulating T4
and clinical sign of hyperthyroidism.” http://drjeandoddspethealthres…” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204382360
Just found the page Lew olson says, much of the time the problem can be tracted back to carbohydrates, When dogs digest grains, reserves of important bacteria in ur dogs intestines become depleted, causing essential vitamins like vitamin B & K to be passed with the faces, When a dogs eats another dogs stool he may be trying to get back the bacteria & enzymes that are missing in his diet…Carbohydrates are more difficult to digest & may pass thru the dogs system only partially digested this may also make stools more tempting to ur dog. ..So what can u do? add digestive enzyems, beneficical bacteria & a B complex vitamin to the dogs diet may help curb his drive to eat stools, Reducing or eliminating carbs can also produce smaller less “appetizing” stools in which the food is more completely digested. A diet of raw meat & bones on the other hand, produces smaller, drier, & less smelly stools.The fewer grains ur dog eats the more benficial enzymes & bacteria remain avialable to ensure stools are well-formed & almost odorless. Unripe Pineapple & papayas are rich in the enzyems ur dog needs to break down proteins, & the bromelain in pineapple can also help with inflammation & the uptake of other supplements.
If ur dog is on a grain free kibble it may have potatoes which are carbohydrates…. This book ‘Raw & Nutual Nutrition for dogs’ is an excellent read Im learning so much, explaining heaps of health problems & what to feed ur dog.. good easy recipes Raw or cooked..
I posted on this very issue 3 months ago on the Natures Logic thread. A paper was published on this in 2012 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22931400
In response Shawna posted “Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.”
Guess Dr Dodds is now warning people about the issue. Here is a link to her blog on the issue dated 2 /2013
Well this is a first… Noticed topic on a Greyhound Forum :
“Feeding Raw Foods to your Pets can Cause Hyperthyroidism”
WHAT? I’m sorry. Can you say that again?
Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction when one of the world’s leading veterinarian immunologists, Dr. Jean Dodds of Dr. Jean Dodds’ Hemopet, Petlifeline, Hemolife & Nutriscan, announced that statement.
While attending one of Dr. Dodds’ seminars, we were going over the topic of thyroid dysfunction in pets and the current “epidemic” of hypothyroidism in dogs and hyperthyroidism in older cats going on today. As she went deeper into the subject, she brought up a study involving both raw foods and dogs. The study by Dr. Mark E. Peterson showed that feeding certain raw foods caused a previously unexpected dietary hyperthyroidism effect. While hypothyroidism is a common endocrine disorder in dogs, canine hyperthyroidism is rare.
How could this be? Quicker than the Roadrunner escaping Wile E. Coyote my hand flew up into the air! “How was this possible?” I asked.
Some raw food manufacturers are grinding up the neck of the beef cattle into their mixtures/pet food. Inside that neck is where you find the thyroid glands of the cow. The thyroid tissues are being ground up and mixed into the pet food. This terrible mixture causes dietary hyperthyroidism in dogs.
Moral of the story: It is suggested to make sure that if you’re feeding fresh, raw foods to your pets, be sure to find out if the neck (gullets that still have the esophagus and thyroid attached) of the cattle is included. How do you find out? Contact your local farmer or manufacturer! (Side note: There is no concern in feeding chicken, turkey or duck necks.)
Feeding fresh foods to our pets is always the way to go, but educating ourselves beforehand makes it even better. Knowledge is power.
TParticipant
Coprophagia is normally a juvenile behavior that dogs outgrow. Some dogs may continue into adulthood. The behavior may have different origins, not the least of which is “stomach heat” and inadequate nutrition (i.e. non-species appropriate food, non-fresh food, etc.).
I sound like a broken record, but consider a gradual change to a real food, grain-free, low-carb. diet whether it be cooked or raw food. Add digestive enzymes to meals and use a probiotic for several months.
Damage control/breaking the habit in the short term: Only let the dogs out to eliminate when you are there to supervise. Pick up all feces immediately. If you see the dog start to think about eating a pile, give a “no” command and re-direct their attention so you can pick up the poop. Treat it as a training task much as you would teach “sit” or “stay.”
Hope that helps! By the way, I’m a holistic veterinarian in Phoenix and I have a blog at http://naturalalternativesvet.com/category/blog
I have not tried Divovite yet. I have 2 year old Bullmastiff that has been on Taste of the Wild/Bison pretty much since I rescued him (had him on Blue for about a month, the foster had him on a raw diet for a month and I have no idea what he was eating before)…He seems to be having food allergies, but can’t tie it down to one thing that he is allergic to. When he stays at the sitter’s for more than a day, he comes home licking and rashy. The first time it was small red bumps everywhere including his ears, eyes and jowls…The second time it was hot spots and the dry flaky bumps that others have talked about on this thread. Both times the vet prescribed antibiotics. The first time, he got a steroid shot and some eye and ear cream too…the second time I had to go to the vet twice and the second time he prescribed a second antibiotic and a steroid boosted antihistamine…and said that I could give my dog up to 15 Benadryl a day for the rest of his life. I agree with all of you that think that meds for life is ridiculous. I don’t think I want to go raw with his diet either. I am willing to try Dinovite, it isn’t that expensive for a 90 day supply (for my 120lb bully, $1 per day)…
I want to add this though- those concerned about diatamaceous earth need to do more research on it. I’ve used it several times all by itself to kill fleas. Non-food quality is used in pool and hot tub filters, food quality is used by farmers in their livestock foods to help fight intestinal parasites because it is actually crushed shells and corals and it cuts the parasites skin and causes them to dehydrate. Many sites will recommend it all by itself as a treatment to your pet’s coat to fight fleas and you can add it to food by itself for the same reasons farmers use it. I’ve never heard it being referred to as a “binder.” And to the post talking about the ingredients to the solvents and poisons including H2O, RIGHT ON man!!!! People are so worried about “chemicals” they can’t pronounce, but most people would not have any issues eating an egg…well you know eggs are chemicals and if you looked at the chemical make-up of an all natural egg, you wouldn’t be able to pronounce them either (Ovalbumin, Conalbumin, Ovamucoid, Ovomucin, Lysozyme, Avidin, Ovoglobulin, Ovoinhibitor) and that is just for the whites of the eggs….
Don’t mean to repeat what everyone has said so far, just want to comment so I can follow the thread. I have a Rat Terrier mix and he is a little over 1 year old, and has been on 11+ different kibbles so far. Variety is essential so you can look for good quality protein (from meat or meat meal), and good brands, and rotate flavors and brands. I think I’m not doing it quite perfectly, as I choose a brand, then rotate all flavors I am willing to feed within that brand, then I switch brands. I think you should alternate brands and flavors between bags and go back and forth between brands if need be. Mixing kibble with canned and raw is also a great idea. Definitely avoid the Science Diet and low protein. Good affordable kibbles that I have fed are Victor Grain Free, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free, Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension (protein is below 30% though), and Dr. Tim’s. All have manageable kibble size for small dogs (Dr. Tim’s is the biggest of those listed, and Victor is the smallest). Good luck!
Oh, and when transitioning from one kibble to the next, you can add some plain pumpkin puree or yoghurt/kefir, or canned to make the transition easier on their tummies. For canned I currently use Nutro Ultra and Nutro Max.
Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.
The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.
She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.
If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.
You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.
Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.
I won’t swear by my spelling, but here is the scoop on eggs. Raw egg white has a substance called avidin(that’s the spelling?) that binds with biotin so the dog can’t use the biotin in it’s diet. However, there are other very good things in raw egg. Heat deactivates the avidin. So the key is to give raw eggs sometimes, but not all the time. The rest of the time you want the white lightly cooked but the yolk as untouched as possible. Seperating out the white and cooking it by itself is the best method, but a pain in the neck. Soft boiling is probably second, but that still heats the yolk too much to be doing no damage to the heat sensitive stuff in the yolk. Next, would be sunny side up for doing the least damage.
This book Im reading Raw & Nutural Nutrition for dogs by Lew Olson PhD, she recommends to boil the eggs, leave egg shells on a tray in warm place over night, then ground up.. If ur feeding Raw Meaty Bones they are a great source of calcium, they wont need the extra calcuim if their diet is raw, But if ur dogs aren’t on a Raw diet then..half a teaspoon of grounded egg shells sprinked on meal..Im doing this at the moment grounded up the egg shells & putting in spice jar..
Hi Deborah H. and welcome. If you are all things dog obsessed than boy have you come to the right place. I’ve got three little ones and they are my babies. One has lots of issues, the one has none other than being totally obsessed with playing fetch, and my older girl I’m just yesterday and today dealing with liver issues (14 1/2 year old Maltese). Waiting for results of tests done this morning. Your question on THK. Yes it was on March 2014 list and it’s not on April 2014 list. We don’t know why it was taken off. A few of us have been discussing this and we are waiting for some feed back from Dr. Mike or HDM.
I’m glad you’re thinking about incorporating a raw diet or at least freeze dried diet for one of their daily meals. There are some home cooked raw feeders here on this site and I’m sure they’ll chime in and steer you in the right direction if home cooking is what you’d like to do. NO, you do not have to stop getting doggie kisses because you feed raw. Just make sure that YOU wash your hands, counter and anything else that touched the raw food thoroughly. Just as you would do when doing your own cooking for you and your family with raw meats and fishes. The more you incorporate and rotate raw and freeze dried foods in your dogs diets the healthier they will become. A healthy dog is more able to deal with minor issues in foods than one with an unhealthy gut. It’s the humans that have to be really careful with foods containing Salmonella and such more so than a healthy dog. You’ll be amazed at the changes that take place when you incorporate raw to their diets. Changes that you didn’t even know weren’t as they should be.
Welcome to our obsessed world. I’m about as obsessed a person can be about my girls, short of being locked up in some institution some where. Even then, they’d have to let me take my dogs, get me a freezer, their supplements, their beds, their toys, all their grooming supplies, shampoos, their special stainless steel bowls, etc. I think you get a picture of me now! SO SO TOTALLY OBSESSED AM I! AND I LOVE IT! It’s the only way to be. In my world, anyway!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
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This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by
Dori.
Have I missed something (I just joined today, April 8th)? The Honest Kitchen was mentioned in this forum as being on the Editor’s Choice list, but I do not see it. Was it removed recently?
I am interested in incorporating at least one raw (or freeze-dried raw) meal each day for my eight-year-old Havanese. There aren’t many raw foods that made this prestigious list.
Any suggestions? I am a little nervous to go raw. Does one have to stop letting their dog give humans “kisses” if they eat a raw diet?
Thanks! It’s great to be among those that (maybe) obsess about their dog’s health as much as I do!
Debbie
Hi Shawna. Thanks so much for seeing my post and responding.
All four of Hannah’s liver values was sky high. Last year at this time of year for her physical only one value was high and that was only 1 or 2 points over the high normal so they didn’t mention it because they didn’t think it was any big deal. This year is total different. This year is also when I switched all the girls to all commercial raw for ever meal. I was occasionally rotating in THK Zeal and/or Preference. Katie developed intolerance to alfalfa so I stopped THK. (Katie is the poop eater and though I’m vigilant about being the human pooper scooper, if I’m out and my husband just opens the door and lets them out in the yard. Doesn’t pick up after them. Too be fair, he has macular degeneration pretty bad and probably really doesn’t see it too pick up). Their diet has been Answers, Darwins, Stella & Chewy’s, Primal Pronto, Vital Essentials. As you know all very high proteins, higher in fats than I would like but they all seem to be that way. I did try Natures Variety for a bit but I didn’t like anything about it so that was just one bag between the three of them.
Your friend in California. Does she only rotate between Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve Brown’s Dinner Mix and if so, what proteins, fruits and veggies does she add? Did she ever go back to any raw meals solely or always the pre mixes with protein. Why Premix with oats? Do you know what brand or what it is?
Yesterday was a really really bad day for me. I tried keeping myself together while Hannah was around but I was near hysterical and stressed beyond belief yesterday. If I wasn’t crying I was shaking. I spent almost all day on the computer yesterday trying to digest as much info as I could. The more I read the more nervous I got. I dropped Hannah off this morning (after fasting 12 hours) and just picked her up. They’ll have results back tomorrow afternoon. They were just checking liver at today. They did not want to test for Cushings today because they felt that we needed to take one step at a time. All four doctors in the practice spoke with me today and explained that the Cushing’s test needs to be given medication first (steroids???), and because of the fasting then feeding fatty food and then rest and retesting for the liver test that felt that would interfere with true bloodwork for Cushing’s test and wouldn’t be accurate. Sounds logical. So one step at a time. Depending what they find with results of tests for both liver and Cushing’s they’ll do a liver ultrasound. Best case scenario it’s something that they can reverse levels with food and Sam-E type prescription product. Worse case scenario could be tumor or cancer of the liver. At her age it would be a matter of keeping her comfortable. She’s certainly too old for surgery, chemo, radiation or anything else that goes along with it.
They did tell me no more rabies vaccines for her (unfortunately she had one on Friday during her yearly physical) and definitely no more HW preventative, Sentinel, for her either.
So I’m interested in knowing more about your friend in California and what she fed along with the premixes. That’s the one thing I want to work on immediately. I certainly don’t want to have to put her on one of their prescribed foods so I’m trying to get a jump on getting and ordering whatever I need to change her diet to. This has come as a shock to me. All the issues with her I could justify with other problems she has like loss of hair would be hypothyroid. No jumping on furniture and trembling loss of hind leg muscles and weakness I attributed it to mid spine degenerated discs. One thing I do know is that she is drinking enormous amounts of water.
I’d appreciate any guidance you can give me.
Hey Dori,
I didn’t read through all the posts so I don’t know what all was said. And I don’t know which liver values were high but I have an interesting story.
My girlfriend in California has five toy breed dogs (your babies remind me of hers). I’ll have to show you a picture of them privately some time… Anywho, she has fed raw to her dogs as long as I’ve known her (but she added a premix with oats in it). None of her dogs had any typical allergy symptoms but I convinced her to switch to The Honest Kitchen Preference in rotation with Steve Brown’s Dinner Premix. Shortly after doing it she took one of her babies to the vet and her liver enzymes were through the roof. I have a copy of her blood work in my email if I can find it. She discussed changes that had been made with her vet and her vet told her to stay the course with the new diet. Her vet, by the way, is Dr. Jean Dodds… 🙂
Although her liver enzymes were crazy high pup started having changes for the positive — mostly behavioral. She came out of her shell in a REALLY big way.. My friend would report to me almost on a daily basis new things that her baby was doing — jumped on the couch for the first time ever. Slept in bed with us instead of isolating herself in the doggy bed etc. After three or four months and a world of positive changes her liver enzymes finally came down again…
My point, don’t freak out cause it doesn’t always mean something bad. It could be a BIG detox. If it is something like cushings then it can be addressed when it is confirmed. It is important that you stay calm for her sake though as she will be able to pick up on your stress and fear (when I learned of Audrey’s diagnosis I made it a point to only break down when I wasn’t around her). Dr. Becker has a couple good articles on cushings. Dr. Dodds gave another friend of mine some data on cushings that could be helpful if needed. I can contact her on your behalf.
Somewhere there is a thread about bloat, but I don’t know where it’s hiding, but the take away is that they really don’t know what causes bloat. Every time they think they have a cause, they try to cause bloat and find that whatever they were testing doesn’t cause bloat. The current thinking is that there is no one reason that animals bloat, but that there may be several factors that have to be present at the same time to cause bloat. I can tell you that raw fed dogs are not known for bloating and they recieve a high fat diet compared to kibble fed dogs, so it can’t just be fat. Same with dogs fed canned foods.
They say that for bloat prone dogs that you should not feed a food with citric acid in it because this can cause gas build up in the stomach. And they also say to wet the food well before feeding it to allow it to absorb all the water that it can. And don’t allow your dog to drink water after eating, especially if fed a dry meal. I would always add digestive enzymes to any kibble being fed to a bloat prone dog, but I would strive to feed a more natural diet to these dogs.
Ok, so I’m really freaking out right now. Hannah, our 14 1/2 year old Maltese had her yearly physical on Friday and the vet called this a.m. to tell me that Hannah’s liver levels are sky high. Level came back at 436. I’ll admit I don’t know exactly what that means other than it is bad. She said that last year her level was just under the high level but didn’t mention it because it was nothing to be concerned. It was still high/normal. I have to fast her for 12 hours and have her back to vet in the a.m. to do a specific liver test where they’ll keep her for a couple of hours. If that comes back o.k. then they’ll do a test for Cushings. If that’s okay then a liver ultrasound. The only the that has changed in this past year is that I switched to an all rotating commercial raw diet for all three dogs. She’s had hypothyroidism for years and has been on soloxine for years. That came back fine and keep her on the same dose. I did add Nyzymes a couple of months back to her diet. She has not vomitted, doesn’t have diarrhea, her hair is very very thin but I’ve attributed that to thyroid and old age. She does seem to be drinking more water than normal, especially on a raw diet where they usually drink less water than on kibble not more.
So, what should I start doing immediately. I’m beside myself. Her yearly has only come back as being fabulous. Last year the vets told me her bloodwork came back like that of a 7 or 8 year old dog. So, yep! Freaking out here. HELP!!!
Honestly, I’d think that home made would be best for everyone. You could customize her diet more easily, and home made is much better in general – raw is best, too. There are many premixes out there. The Honest Kitchen is a favorite. Sojos and See Spot Live Longer are dehydrated foods that you add your own meat to, so you could buy a protein source she isn’t allergic to. Sojos isn’t the most complete, so it would be best if rotated out with at least one other.
If you do find a dry food that works, you can always soak it or mix it with a super wet canned food to make it easier to chew. I’d be a little nervous about having only rabbit as a protein source in dry food, as rabbit has zero animal fat (or possibly there’s chicken fat in the ingredient list as well, I haven’t seen it), and I believe that dogs need an amount of animal fat in their diets.
I still think that something home made is definitely best 🙂
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This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by
Shasta220.
I drink Amazing Grass Green Superfood. I was looking at the ingredients and it most of them are ingredients recommended by Dr. Becker to optimize a dog’s raw food diet.What do you think? Does it have “no-no” ingredients” or would it be a good idea to share this with my Susie?
All Products
Hi All, I am finding this raw food forum so interesting, just read it thru from beginning to end! I’m not ready to feed raw yet, actually got started on DFA to check the rating for my dog’s kibble. However, I’m wondering about adding some raw to Jake’s diet. He’s a beagle mix, 30ish pounds, 9 years old, good health. Can I just throw a chicken liver or 2 in with his kibble? Give him a wing or back as a treat? A chunk of stew beef now and then? Can he have a chicken thigh for dinner in place of his kibble some days? And what is this 2 week freeze I’ve heard mentioned? Do I need to freeze all meat before I give it to him? Am I killing a parasite by doing this? He loves fruits and vegies , he gets whatever I’m eating that day. Better to cook/steam them or just let him have it raw? Will still give kibble, at least for now so not worried about him needing supplements. Also, can I feed my cats the same way? Some chicken or beef in addition to their regular food? Can a cat chew up a chicken wing safely? Or more likely, a piece of a wing? Thanks!
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the input. The update on my Gus isn’t good ( for raw food.) He started out wonderfully ( except for some gas) but then within the last few days, he’s become very restless and itchy 🙁 he’s even starting to tunnel on the floor and the bottom of the couch. Not sure what to do because my vet wants him on a HD diet and from what I’ve read about those, they aren’t good. Thoughts? He was on Natures Variety lid lamb kibble, but got tired of it and seems to want only beef, but he needs limited ingredient and grain free.
Our dog has acid reflux. He was throwing up ( I think he’s actually just regurgitating, not really throwing up) about once or twice a week in the middle of the night and every now and then during the day while we are at work. We switched his food to Nutro chicken and oatmeal formula a couple of years ago and it seemed to control it pretty well. He only had an incident every other month or so. We’ve tried to give him Tums, per the vets recommendation, but he never would eat them.
About 2 months ago our dog got worse. He was throwing up (or regurgitate) every day. We have found that feeding him chicken and rice for a few days clears up these episodes and he’s back to normal. I started researching raw food and cooked food diets for him and now I’m making his food myself. I use chicken thighs (they are the cheapest), sweet potato, carrots, green beans, and blueberries. I throw it all in a slow cooker and when it’s done I remove the bones and mash it all up. I add 1/2 cup of dry food and 1/2 cup of rice when I’m ready to feed them and they love it. No more tummy issues and their farts smell 90% better. Or, is it 90% less bad? Either way, both dogs could clear out a room before.
The only part of the diet I haven’t solved yet is the supplements. It seems like there are good and bad things said about Dinovite, but I haven’t tried that yet. I’ve been using Nupro, and it seems to work ok.
TJ. When I initially started rotating foods a long time ago I would switch every two or three bags, then I started switching every bag. Always very very slowly. I eventually switched to commercial raw foods for all my three dogs because one of them has many food intolerances and allergies. I feed all three girls twice a day as I always have regardless of what I feed them and can now say, and it’s been a few months now, that I can feed them different foods a.m. and p.m. with no issues whatsoever. No gas, bad breath, diarrhea, constipation, nothing. I rotate their proteins within a brand, I rotate brands and I rotate their supplements. Nothing seems to bother them any more. Just as humans eat different foods for different meals without issues, so do my dogs. I will also say that they are incredibly healthy. I have a 14 1/2 year old Maltese (she’ll be 15 on 9/9/14) and I have a 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo and a 4 1/2 year old Yorkipoo. Vet is always praising how well they are. They only go to the vet at this point once a year for physical and the only vaccine they receive is rabbi’s vaccine. Hope any of this has helped.
Once you get your dogs accustomed to rotation, it has nothing whatsoever to do with their age. It is never too late to start rotating foods and they don’t take to rotation of diets any easier because they are young or old. Just take your time initially and before you know it you’ll be able to feed them different things all the time. Initially, like theBCnut, I used to add a complete probiotic and a digestive enzyme every day (not every meal). I haven’t done that in ages. Good Luck to you. Glad to meet you and welcome to the site if your new. If not, sorry I haven’t picked up on your name before.
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This reply was modified 12 years ago by Dori.
One of my dogs was very yeasty, the other two were mildly so. What worked for them was switching their diet and adding Mercola’s Complete Probiotics. The switch in their diet back then was to a grain, soy, rice, white potato, poultry free. All yeast, bad breath, horrendous gas issues, runny goopy eyes all went away. Also one of them had terribly dry skin. I later transitioned them to all raw and that is what they eat now.
Mercola Complete Probiotics is on the expensive side but I think it’s a really good company and product. It’s also a lot less expensive than being at the vet every time you turn around and being charged their outrageous prices for meds that don’t fix the actual problem, only the symptoms and then to add insult to injury they want you to feed your animals their horrible foods that the sell and get kick backs on.
You were very nice not to laugh out loud at the comments “That, like our bodies, they can better digest processed foods (she brought up how when we were cavemen we ate a lot of uncooked food and just sat around digesting it all day)”. Please do not give in to the pressure and continue to feed your baby what you know is best for him. I’m no raw zealot, but the evidence is overwhelming. Most dogs thrive on a raw diet. I know that my two Pugs do.
My Pomeranian Gizmo is also “poultry” intolerant. She gets bloody, liquid diarrhea (ulcerative colitis) from chicken. Duck, turkey, pheasant, quail and even ostrich cause eye goobers and coughing but doesn’t seem to affect her digestive tract (at least that is noticeable). At least not with short term feeding. She has absolutely no issue at all with any form of egg though. Not saying your baby will be the same just saying it is possible to be intolerant of poultry muscle proteins while being okay with egg, liver and other proteins from poultry.
After getting Gizmo off of chicken (she was about two at the time) it took about a year for her immune system to calm down. It took several months before I stopped seeing mucous in the stool if I remember correctly. Sometimes the stool was also a little partially mushy, or off and on, during the withdrawal (or detox) phase.
I used a fish based product called SeaCure to help repair her gut faster (again, it took about 2(ish) months for the gut but about a year for the immune system). Having your girl on medications could slow the healing process as the body also has to filter the drugs?? OHHH, NSAID’s of any sort (like Rimadyl) still to this day cause colitis in her after being on it for more than two to three days.
Pepcid AC makes protein digestion harder as it neutralizes the hydrochloric acid that is required in the process of breaking down proteins. For this reason some feel it can be counter productive. At the very least it is going to make the pancreas have to work harder to get the protein from the food. Glutamine is a supplement that is given to help with stomach damage. Glutamine is also an amino acid in protein. If the protein can’t be digested than the glutamine is not released for the body (and gut) to use. Many of us chose to use apple cider vinegar instead of an antacid. Here’s an article written by a Certified Nutrition Consultant if interested (she mentions the use of ACV for dogs in the article) http://www.naturalnutritionadvisor.com/blog/?p=73 (SeaCure helps in much the same way — it is simply fish protein that has been broken down to its simplest form allowing for the glutamine and other amino acids be easily utilized by the body.)
Hoping you are able to get it all figured out and get her healthy very quickly!! I can honestly say I know what you are going through!!!!
Edit — I agree with Shasta. If you can do raw (or a commercial cooked diet) it is SO much easier to control the ingredients!!!
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This reply was modified 12 years ago by Shawna.
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This reply was modified 12 years ago by Shawna.
Have you tried any other home made diets? I think there are a few other raw premixes out ther. See Spot Live Longer and Sojos are the two I can think of right off the top. A home made diet would probably be a lot easier to adjust the ingredients on to keep those ones out.
Edit: have you tried all the commercial raw foods? /best-dog-foods/raw-dog-food/ I haven’t looked at them all to see if there are any free of poultry, but there’s a chance…
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This reply was modified 12 years ago by Shasta220.
Hi Melissa,
Vet Dr. Karen Becker has a video interview with a Newfie breeder who is also a human and pet chiropractor. He has very sound dogs and feeds a HIGH protein raw diet. He had one female Newfie live to age 17. Of course not everyone is in a position to feed raw, especially to a Newf, but wanting to demonstrate that protein isn’t an issue. They have scientific data supporting that conclusion as well.. That same data lists excess calcium and over feeding as problems. It’s in the forum comments HDM mentions.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/04/05/how-a-newfoundland-pet-dog-reached-17-years.aspx
I was looking around in a pet boutique today, and saw Sojos brand premix. You just add water and your own meat. https://www.sojos.com/products/dog-food/sojos-original-dog-food-mix
Is that a good one, or is it just too high in carbs? I’ve never had the chance to do a home made diet mainly because of the high cost and resource issues. But this stuff looked very affordable. I think a 10lb bag (supposed to make 48lb when mixed with raw meat/water) was $25.
I know there are much better options out there, but I’m just wondering what your opinions are on it. Would it be worth looking into as a start for home made? Or would a 4-5 star kibble still be better?
I agree with the others that fresh food is better be it cooked or raw — if you can do fresh that is. Kibble is the hardest form of food to digest and it may make him uncomfortable??
I agree with Dr. Tabitha about adding digestive enzymes and probiotics.
Canned or especially raw tripe often will entice a picky eater. It is very pungent but dogs seem to love the stuff. If you get a complete and balanced kind you can feed it as the sole food. If not balanced you can mix it in with the other food to coat it. Sardines might be worth trying. Smelly and a good source of omega 3 fats. Some dogs find Parmesan cheese irresistible (as long as there is not a sensitivity to dairy). Answer’s makes a fermented goat milk product that dogs really really seem to like. The kibble could be soaked in it. I started adding a little bit of “BLUE ICE Infused Coconut Oil” to all eight of my dogs’ diets several months ago. Not only do they LOVE LOVE LOVE the stuff but their teeth are cleaner since using and my Pom with OCD has really come out of her shell. At first I thought I was imagining it but it is so obvious that everyone in the family has commented on it. It is pricey up front but a little goes a long way. http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm (Thanks to HDM for mentioning this product.)
Hope you find something that works for you and your little one!!
I agree with the others about feeding a rotational diet over just one food. Three of my eight dogs get a rotational kibble diet with canned and raw toppers. I use Orijen, Acana, Earthborn Primitive Naturals, Nature’s Variety, Nature’s Logic and many others off and on (Wellness, Fromm, Merrick, Back to Basics etc).
Raw egg with the shell is a really good and inexpensive topper. Another is beef, deer or chicken heart mixed with Steve’s Real Food premix. Heart is usually inexpensive to begin with but a friend gets free beef hearts from her butcher for me… And a hunter friend gives me the parts of the deer he doesn’t use himself.
Good try! Yes raw bones with meat are very good diet meal for dog. Bone is natural and good for dog health. I also give my dog a bone with chicken in every meals .
Steven A, I would definitely advise you to try all of the above suggestions. Rotational diet is good anyway. 🙂
Also, I have fed Blue Buffalo Wilderness for about 4 months or so just fine. Acana and Orijen I have not tried yet. A good one, and pretty affordable, is Dr. Tim’s, as well as Victor. I usually look for deals both in stores and online and was able to snatch a 4-lb bag of Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpea for $5 on Petflow, no kidding! 🙂
Other foods I’ve fed that are good are Holistic Health Extensions, Earthborn Holistic – currently on the fish one, Nature’s Variety Instinct + Raw Boost and Now Fresh (on samples), and I will be feeding some of Victor, Back to Basics, Wellness Core, AvoDerm, Merrick, Nature’s Variety, and more in the near future. ALL grain-free too.
Of those, I think Wellness Core and Blue Buffalo Wilderness are moderately affordable; Victor, Dr. Tim’s, and Earthborn Holistic seem to be very affordable; the rest I have coupons for/will scout deals for, lol.
Thanks theBCnut,
I tried it and they all did wonderful my 10 month old 30# Beagle wasn’t sure what to do at first and he is usually my gulper! It took him a minute but he figured it out and chomped it down chewing the entire time. I am extremely excited to be getting my dogs on the raw diet. I can already tell just the chewing is going to help their teeth tremendously:) i’ll be back here watching and learning more vital info and maybe more questions. Hopefully one day be able to answer a question or two…lol
2 months, 1 week ago
