High Liver Levels

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  • #38110 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Ok, so I’m really freaking out right now. Hannah, our 14 1/2 year old Maltese had her yearly physical on Friday and the vet called this a.m. to tell me that Hannah’s liver levels are sky high. Level came back at 436. I’ll admit I don’t know exactly what that means other than it is bad. She said that last year her level was just under the high level but didn’t mention it because it was nothing to be concerned. It was still high/normal. I have to fast her for 12 hours and have her back to vet in the a.m. to do a specific liver test where they’ll keep her for a couple of hours. If that comes back o.k. then they’ll do a test for Cushings. If that’s okay then a liver ultrasound. The only the that has changed in this past year is that I switched to an all rotating commercial raw diet for all three dogs. She’s had hypothyroidism for years and has been on soloxine for years. That came back fine and keep her on the same dose. I did add Nyzymes a couple of months back to her diet. She has not vomitted, doesn’t have diarrhea, her hair is very very thin but I’ve attributed that to thyroid and old age. She does seem to be drinking more water than normal, especially on a raw diet where they usually drink less water than on kibble not more.

    So, what should I start doing immediately. I’m beside myself. Her yearly has only come back as being fabulous. Last year the vets told me her bloodwork came back like that of a 7 or 8 year old dog. So, yep! Freaking out here. HELP!!!

    #38119 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Don’t do anything yet, wait for that blood test. Anything you do now won’t help if the problem is something else. She may have to go on a lower protein diet, but homemade to make sure that all the protein is good quality is still the best for her. Drinking more water may be her body’s attempt to eliminate the extra protein or may be her attempt to regulate her pH, which can get messed up if it really is a liver issue. I’m glad your vet is on top of things with yearly blood work, you have no idea how rare that is.

    #38124 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Ok Patty. So your basically telling me to calm down and wait and I could be freaking out thinking there’s nothing that will be able to help but that in actuality if it is the liver then there will be some things I can do to reverse the situation? Damn, sorry Patty, I now realize I am babbling. I’ve been checking the protein levels of all the raws that I feed and, of course, they are much higher than kibble but I don’t want to put her on kibble. I also took a look at protein levels for the Nzymes and I’ve had her on two other supplements that I had forgotten about from Ark Naturals Grey Muzzle line. One for cognitive and one for heart health. I just thought since she was older she might need some heart health and, also, due to her age I couldn’t really tell whether she sometimes seemed a little more out of things because of losing some hearing to old age or cognitive skills were being affected due to age. Everything has added protein. Could all that contribute to high liver levels. I should have left well enough alone and just fed her the raw with her glucosamine and not added other stuff. I have been giving them all milk thistle but since it comes in capsules I was dividing one capsule among the three dogs. Should I have been giving each one capsule? It just looked like so much. I should have posted that question. I know we all talked about milk thistle when losul’s Turbo was diagnosed with HW but I don’t think it was ever discussed as to how much or I just missed that part. I’m kicking myself right now thinking of all the things I may have done wrong. Like I said, other than hypothyroid Hannah has never ever had any health issues.

    What do you mean it’s rare for vets to do yearly bloodwork? If they don’t then what’s the point of the yearly physical? Why would I take them then? I could look and feel them as well, actually, better than she can? Hmmmm? I should have insisted on a 6 month bloodwork instead of yearly. I read something about that somewhere that when dogs get older they should go every six months instead of yearly but she didn’t think it was necessary in the least because Hannah’s always been so healthy. And here I go rambling and babbling.

    #38130 Report Abuse

    NectarMom
    Member

    When I fed Raw one of my dogs blood work constantly coming back like she had Cushings. We had to fast her and then her blood work came back only slightly elevated and now since we are back on kibble her blood work comes back perfect. Fasting really tells more. I do yearly annuals but no vaccines. It could also be the higher protein so which is another reason to fast to get an accurate reading.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by  NectarMom.
    #38133 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Thanks so much Nectarmom. Very helpful to hear your story. I’m thinking, hoping anyway, that some of the supplements that I have been adding to her meals that are really high in protein also have contributed to this crazy level. She doesn’t act sick, or anything. She has been drinking more water. With multiple dogs in the house and changing water two times a day I wasn’t picking up that it was her drinking most of the water. I’ve been watching her lick a hawk today and she’s drinking way more water than she’s been drinking for a while. Just like when she was on kibble. On kibble she could go though an entire big bowl of water all by herself.

    My dogs only get rabies vaccine and I left the vets office so happy Friday with Hannah because since we moved to a different county since her last visit, rabies vaccine is only required every 3 years. Funny thing is I’m literally across the county line. I did ask the vet if the three year and the one year vaccines were different. She told me they are the exact same one it’s just that different municipalities have different rules. So so stupid to make you vaccinate every year when it’s the same damn one for three years.

    #38136 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    High protein does not cause liver problems or high liver levels, but after there is already a liver problem, the liver has a harder time dealing with as much protein. The high levels could be from something else, they could be a temporary increase due to some insult to her liver, like a toxic exposure, they could be because of some other disease process all together. You just can’t know yet. You may have to start adding carbs to her diet to reduce the protein levels, but you may need to do nothing at all, you just don’t know yet. If it turns out that she really is having liver issues, have your vet get you a recipe for a homemade diet for her. It will still be way better than anything you could buy.

    She is much more likely to have come in contact with something on walks or whatever like that, than for the supplements that you gave her to have caused a problem. Unfortunately, this could be age, it could be longterm exposure to heartworm prevention, it could be from pesticides, even ones your neighbors used years ago, you may never know and liver problems can literally take a lifetime to pop up.

    And yes, I do mean that most vets just feel, look, and listen to dogs at their yearly and never run blood work until there is already a known problem, so they never have normals to compare to.

    Dori, at 14 1/2 years old, you would never want to treat her for heartworms and she would never have enough of them to have a serious case, so the first thing I would do would be to never give her another dose. BTW, when was her last dose in relation to when she had the blood work done? That alone could explain the elevated levels.

    #38137 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Hi Patty. The last HW preventative (Sentinel) was on March 1. So no more Sentinel for her. Should I stop with the other two (4 1/2 year olds) also. I was going to give them every 45 days. Losul’s story about Turbo made me feel that by not giving them HW meds (Sentinel) that I might be asking for trouble.

    Also the HW cure seemed worse than the HW meds.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by  Dori.
    #38139 Report Abuse

    NectarMom
    Member

    Cushingโ€™s syndrome is a disease caused by long-term exposure to high levels of glucocorticosteroids, either manufactured by the body or given as medications. I do not even get Rabies vaccine for my dogs. Yes my Vet gives me a hard time and tells me that it is at my own risk to not give my dogs Rabies vaccine but I feel that my dogs are only at my house and we live in a neighborhood with other people that keep their dogs in the backyard and not running the streets. I do not walk my dogs anywhere. If we go to the Vets I carry my dogs and I personally clean and sterilize where my dogs will be set on a table for the vet to examine them. I also do not give Heartworm medication and have not for a few years now. I do believe in yearly blood work due to finding out things sooner that could possibly be fixed with my dogs. I lost one of Cancer and I learned the hard way just how important yearly blood work is. 3 Year Rabies is a very harsh injection. I won’t do it, no need in it when we do not have rabies cases here and it is just another way for vets to make money.

    #38140 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    I do the rabies I guess because it’s the law. I never thought not too. Now I’m sorry they gave it to her. I do know though that here in Georgia where I live there is a high incidence of rabies and HW in dogs here is very very common. I should have taken Hannah’s age in to account and not done the rabies, as I said it never occurred to me that I didn’t need to do it. The dogs are licensed and it’s the law so I just did it. Well, now I’m really truly depressed.

    #38141 Report Abuse

    NectarMom
    Member

    Did your Vet say anything about the beginnings of Pancreatitis? This is also a cause for Elevated Liver enzymes. Raw is a lot higher in fat than kibble and some dogs do well on it and others have issues with the higher fat. 2 of mine did not do well on it and developed Pancreatitis and one of my other ones just threw it up several times until I did not offer it to her anymore and the other did fine so 3 out of 4 it did not agree with and to be honest I was worried about them getting bad bacteria in which 2 of them ended up doing from Raw. I still have some in my outside freezer which I need to throw out. I don’t think I will ever find the perfect food for my girls and it is very frustrating. Maybe when I retire I can strictly home cook for the ones I have left or newly acquired ones if that happens. Oh and my girls were on Darwin’s for 8 months before anyone developed Pancreatitis.

    I do hope it is nothing serious with your baby girl. keep us posted with the fasting results.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by  NectarMom.
    #38145 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    No mention of pancreatitis or anything else. She said everything was normal. I’ve just done a search on line of Cushing’s syndrome and she does exhibit a lot of the symptoms. I’ve printed some stuff out to take to the vet tomorrow. She seems to have more symptoms of Cushing’s than liver disease. Increased thirst, increased appetite (I thought it was cause she loves the raw), loss of muscle in back legs, hind-leg weakness (thought it was because two degenerated discs mid spine), hind legs trembling (again thought it was from disc problem), reluctance to jump on furniture, panting, thinning hair (thought it was her hypothyroidism), lots of skin tags (thought it was old age).

    I don’t know if I’m just seeing things and putting them together or they are really all just the stuff I thought. I certainly know I’m driving myself crazy. I had mentioned the hind leg trembling but vet said it would be from the degenerated discs. I just don’t know what to think.

    #38146 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    A couple things

    I wouldn’t stop heartworm prevention on the other two, and I would still get rabies vac also. An undamaged liver should not have any trouble processing HW meds. I just wouldn’t add additional challenge to an already damaged liver in an already senior dog.

    All the symptoms you are seeing now are completely normal under the circumstances you attributed them to, so of course you couldn’t put 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together and get 10, however as a totality of symptoms, it does look quite suspicious.

    When are you taking her back for more tests?

    #38147 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Taking her first the in the morning. She’ll fast this evening and overnight and asked me to bring her in at 10:00 a.m. and leave her there for a couple of hours. They’ll draw blood then I think they feed her a high fat food and bloodwork again after a certain amount of time. She said it would probably take no more than a couple of hours. I’m wondering if I should ask them to go ahead with the Cushing’s test also instead of wasting more time?

    #38148 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    Hi Dori, I just wanted to let you know that I’ll be keeping you & Hannah in my thoughts & prayers. I’m sure everything will turn out ok, but you know, I’m no stranger to worrying so much after what I went thru with Bailey. Deep breaths & good thoughts! ๐Ÿ™‚ Keep us posted & hang in there!

    #38149 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    I would at least ask them about it.

    #38152 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Dori,
    I’m no help because I haven’t dealt with this. Do you have a holistic vet that you can go to, if indeed there is a problem?
    Regarding blood work, lots of people never do any. I do it before surgery so all of mine had it done before their altering. Other than that, I don’t do it yearly unless there’s a problem. Boone was eight in January, he has his yearly at the holistic vet next month & we’re doing a senior panel.
    Regarding rabies, if you don’t want her to have it, you can talk to your vet about a waiver. It depends on what your dogs habits are. Know that if you skip rabies & she bites someone, you’ll be liable.

    #38156 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Patty, I will ask them when I bring her in.

    Cyndi, thank you for the kind words and prayers.

    Marie, well, she had her rabies on Friday during her yearly physical and senior blood panel. The county I live in now accepts three years so too late for the waiver. I think I would be concerned not doing the rabies. I’m going to stop HW meds on Hannah but, take Patty’s suggestion and keep the other girls on Sentinel. They got their rabies shot last October and apparently it’s good for the three years in this new county. I called Health Dept. here today just to double check because last October I didn’t specify to vet the 3 years because I thought it would be the same as next door county where we were and the Health Dept. told me not to worry about it till the three years are up that it’s the same shot they would just verify with vet if they needed to to make sure they actually got the vaccine. He said it was the same vaccine regardless if you call it one year or three.

    #38169 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hey Dori,

    I didn’t read through all the posts so I don’t know what all was said. And I don’t know which liver values were high but I have an interesting story.

    My girlfriend in California has five toy breed dogs (your babies remind me of hers). I’ll have to show you a picture of them privately some time… Anywho, she has fed raw to her dogs as long as I’ve known her (but she added a premix with oats in it). None of her dogs had any typical allergy symptoms but I convinced her to switch to The Honest Kitchen Preference in rotation with Steve Brown’s Dinner Premix. Shortly after doing it she took one of her babies to the vet and her liver enzymes were through the roof. I have a copy of her blood work in my email if I can find it. She discussed changes that had been made with her vet and her vet told her to stay the course with the new diet. Her vet, by the way, is Dr. Jean Dodds… ๐Ÿ™‚

    Although her liver enzymes were crazy high pup started having changes for the positive — mostly behavioral. She came out of her shell in a REALLY big way.. My friend would report to me almost on a daily basis new things that her baby was doing — jumped on the couch for the first time ever. Slept in bed with us instead of isolating herself in the doggy bed etc. After three or four months and a world of positive changes her liver enzymes finally came down again…

    My point, don’t freak out cause it doesn’t always mean something bad. It could be a BIG detox. If it is something like cushings then it can be addressed when it is confirmed. It is important that you stay calm for her sake though as she will be able to pick up on your stress and fear (when I learned of Audrey’s diagnosis I made it a point to only break down when I wasn’t around her). Dr. Becker has a couple good articles on cushings. Dr. Dodds gave another friend of mine some data on cushings that could be helpful if needed. I can contact her on your behalf.

    #38170 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Started reading rest of posts from bottom up. Audrey has had a rabies exemption waiver for seven years now. They KNOW the shot lasts longer than three years (it has been proven in Europe but FDA wouldn’t accept the data). Dr. Becker had to have a rabies shot (she is a wildlife rehabilitator) when she was 16 years old. She’s now in her 40’s and they allow vets to be titered. She has never had to be revaccinated.

    #38192 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Hi Shawna. Thanks so much for seeing my post and responding.
    All four of Hannah’s liver values was sky high. Last year at this time of year for her physical only one value was high and that was only 1 or 2 points over the high normal so they didn’t mention it because they didn’t think it was any big deal. This year is total different. This year is also when I switched all the girls to all commercial raw for ever meal. I was occasionally rotating in THK Zeal and/or Preference. Katie developed intolerance to alfalfa so I stopped THK. (Katie is the poop eater and though I’m vigilant about being the human pooper scooper, if I’m out and my husband just opens the door and lets them out in the yard. Doesn’t pick up after them. Too be fair, he has macular degeneration pretty bad and probably really doesn’t see it too pick up). Their diet has been Answers, Darwins, Stella & Chewy’s, Primal Pronto, Vital Essentials. As you know all very high proteins, higher in fats than I would like but they all seem to be that way. I did try Natures Variety for a bit but I didn’t like anything about it so that was just one bag between the three of them.

    Your friend in California. Does she only rotate between Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve Brown’s Dinner Mix and if so, what proteins, fruits and veggies does she add? Did she ever go back to any raw meals solely or always the pre mixes with protein. Why Premix with oats? Do you know what brand or what it is?

    Yesterday was a really really bad day for me. I tried keeping myself together while Hannah was around but I was near hysterical and stressed beyond belief yesterday. If I wasn’t crying I was shaking. I spent almost all day on the computer yesterday trying to digest as much info as I could. The more I read the more nervous I got. I dropped Hannah off this morning (after fasting 12 hours) and just picked her up. They’ll have results back tomorrow afternoon. They were just checking liver at today. They did not want to test for Cushings today because they felt that we needed to take one step at a time. All four doctors in the practice spoke with me today and explained that the Cushing’s test needs to be given medication first (steroids???), and because of the fasting then feeding fatty food and then rest and retesting for the liver test that felt that would interfere with true bloodwork for Cushing’s test and wouldn’t be accurate. Sounds logical. So one step at a time. Depending what they find with results of tests for both liver and Cushing’s they’ll do a liver ultrasound. Best case scenario it’s something that they can reverse levels with food and Sam-E type prescription product. Worse case scenario could be tumor or cancer of the liver. At her age it would be a matter of keeping her comfortable. She’s certainly too old for surgery, chemo, radiation or anything else that goes along with it.

    They did tell me no more rabies vaccines for her (unfortunately she had one on Friday during her yearly physical) and definitely no more HW preventative, Sentinel, for her either.

    So I’m interested in knowing more about your friend in California and what she fed along with the premixes. That’s the one thing I want to work on immediately. I certainly don’t want to have to put her on one of their prescribed foods so I’m trying to get a jump on getting and ordering whatever I need to change her diet to. This has come as a shock to me. All the issues with her I could justify with other problems she has like loss of hair would be hypothyroid. No jumping on furniture and trembling loss of hind leg muscles and weakness I attributed it to mid spine degenerated discs. One thing I do know is that she is drinking enormous amounts of water.

    I’d appreciate any guidance you can give me.

    #38316 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Dori,

    One of the key differences between holistic practitioners (truly holistic that is) and allopathic practitioners is that the holistic ones see a change (even if still in normal ranges) as a possible “sign” that something might be going on. Rather than dismissing a mildly high liver enzyme they would treat it even if no sympotms are present. Dr. Becker refers to this as the “grey area”. If you think about it, it makes sense. The body doesn’t just become ill one day. The kidneys lose function before symptoms are seen. The liver is quite stressed before liver enzymes become abnormal. Cancer has already taken a foothold when cancer is usually diagnosed. I love how Certified Clinical Nutritionist Radhia Gleis describes it “you wait till the horse is out of the barn, you wait till there’s symptoms and on a scale from zero to one hundred, a hundred being absolute perfect health and zero being death, we don’t start to really experience sympotms until we’re at about 30. So 60% of the vital energy of the body is diminished and then all of the sudden the body is knocking on the door saying there’s something seriously wrong. At that point pathology has set in or disease is already set in and the horse is already out of the barn.” She says “Our job is to catch you when you are in a biochemical imbalance, and restore that balance before disease and symptoms starts to manifest.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMiBuAWvDB0

    Holistically speaking, symptoms are an expression of disease, or imbalance in the body, that has been present but not addressed.

    That doesn’t change anything you are dealing with now but I kinda wanted to address how truly holistic practitioners look at and treat versus how allopathic practitioners handle things. Cyndi, if you are reading this, I’m still available to talk but the last few weekends got away from me. I WILL make myself available this weekend any time if you want (well any time after 10:00 am Central time that is). ๐Ÿ™‚ You have my number, just call when it is convenient for you…. Dori the offer is open to you as well if you ever want to email or talk..

    Starting another post to address you questions as this one is long already…

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by  Shawna.
    #38318 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Hi Shawna and as always I thank you for your help. I do have your phone number unless you’ve changed it. I’m sure you don’t remember but you and I spoke just before I went on Brothers Complete food. I had been speaking with Richard, he spoke to you and you ok’d him to give me your phone # and we spoke. That was at least 2 years ago, maybe a little more like 2 1/2 years ago. My email by the way is [email protected]

    Anyway, last years bloodwork for Hannah was perfect. This year’s bloodwork for Hannah was perfect in every other way with the exception of all four liver levels being extraordinarily high. Yesterday, after a 12 hour fast, she had specific liver function bloodwork. Her vet called me this morning and told me that her liver is not working as it should. She has seen much higher levels on this test come back on other dogs, but regardless, she said this is not good. So, I have to have Hannah at vet in the a.m. where they will do x-ray, ultrasound looking for tumors in liver, gallbladder or anywhere in the area that may be causing liver to not function normally. At my request they will also perform testing for Cushing’s. Not because of the liver issues but because of Hannah’s other symptoms that I’ve justified for other reasons I’m now questioning myself. She said she can certainly do the test while they have Hannah there after x-ray and ultrasound. She said if that will ease my mind then it’s no problem to do it. That there is always the possibility that she has both things going on. Dogs, like humans, can have multiple medical issues. When I picked her up yesterday the vet gave me a bottle of Denamarin and asked that I have her half a tablet at least one hour before her meal. Same meal every day so I’ve picked her dinnertime meal. She also gave me Milk Thistle to add to one of her meals. So that will go with the breakfast meal. We’ll see what the next steps are after the results from tomorrow’s testing comes back. The last dog that we lost was Tracy, our 10 year old Tibetan Terrier, she died of liver cancer. One year all her tests came back normal, including all liver levels. The next years physical everything had gone crazy. What prompted the visit to the vet with her was that she had missed three meals in a row. That was not typical behavior for Tracy. That girl would never miss a meal under anything circumstances. She never came across a food she turned her nose up to. They did the liver testing and she was dead a month and a half later. Really really sucked big time. We were devastated. Anyway, Hannah has shown no such symptoms, none. It just came up at her regular yearly bloodwork done at her physical last Friday. I had noticed that she was drinking a little more water than usual but not anything crazy. Still acting like she was 7 or 8 years old. Still is for that matter. Still eating all her meals. Still jumping up and down with her two younger sisters while I’m preparing their meals. Still running to the fridge every time I open the door. They think every time the fridge door is opening it must be because something good is coming their way. Vet said that if all other tests come back inconclusive or no tumors, etc. etc. Then she we will re-test bloodwork after she’s been on the Denamarin and Milk Thistle for a month and see if the levels have gone down.

    #38319 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.

    The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.

    She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.

    If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.

    You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.

    Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.

    #38320 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    So your vet doesn’t think it’s cushings but you are having her tested just to rule out? Seems quite reasonable!!

    Now that you mention it I DO remember!!! I don’t remember the conversation at all :), but I remember otherwise.. I can’t remember conversations from last month so two years ago is REALLY out of the question. Call me any time, even if you just need to vent or something. Well, I won’t be able to answer “any time” but you know what I mean.. ๐Ÿ™‚ I’ll email you so you have my current email.

    If it turns out to be liver cancer it may be worth discussing the environment since that would make two pups with liver cancer..? We can do a preliminary consult and then I can get you into contact with Toxed2Loss who can get much more in depth on the topic!!!

    PS — if Cushings is the problem (or part of), the stress, even though it’s good stress, of anticipating and waiting for her meal is going to cause a cortisol release and make things worse… ๐Ÿ™

    #38332 Report Abuse

    weezerweeks
    Member

    Dori, Dr. Becker had a long article on liver and liver test on her website this morning. I think it’s mercola healthy animals or Dr. Becker. I thought about u when I read it. Check it out.

    #38358 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Thanks Weezerweeks. I was looking for anything she might have written on liver tests late last night. Going to try to find it right now. Thx for thinking of me.

    #38363 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Weezerweeks. Just read the article and am calmer now knowing that that the vet is following steps that Dr. Becker would be doing herself. Liver biopsy is of course something I’m not sure we would be prepared to do given Hannah’s age.

    #38373 Report Abuse

    Hi Dori,

    I am going through something similar. I did regular bloodwork on my Dane in February and his liver enzymes came back high. His AST was 150, ALT was 720, and Alk Phosphatase was 267. Everything else was normal. They put him on milk thistle and Sam-E. We are rechecking his bloodwork this Saturday (after 6 weeks on the meds). I was giving him white willow for his arthritis and we’re hoping that is the cause and nothing more serious. White willow (like aspirin) can cause liver damage with prolonged use. He was drinking more before (but not excessively). I’ve notice in the last few weeks that he’s not drinking as much so hopefully things are looking up.

    I’ve been doing a lot of research into diet as well in case his liver values are still high on this recheck. Darwin’s makes a prescription diet for dogs with liver issues that is made with white fish. It’s pricey (6.95/lb I think) but I’d do anything for him.

    -Caroline

    #38376 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Caroline. Thank you so much for posting. Good luck on Saturday when you re-test. I’ll be praying for you and your dog. I’m also praying that it was some supplement, or too many different supplements that have taxed or toxed her liver. Anyway I’m trying to cover the basis and, thank God, though Hannah’s vet is not a holistic vet, she seems to be taking the same steps that Dr. Becker and other’s that I’ve been researching since I found out the results on Monday. Just Monday?? It seems like longer than that. Anyway, more testing tomorrow and I’m hoping like your dog, after a month or so leaving any and all supplements out that except for the milk thistle and the Denamarin that things will get back to normal levels. If it’s not something worse than I can only assume it’s a supplement or too many that I’ve given. I have an auto immune illness and tons of allergies myself since about 1997 everything is fragrance free and dye free in my home. No candles burning, no fragrance sprays for bathrooms, nothing at all. Backyard has no lawn, all flower beds, so no week killers or anything like that.

    Funny that you should mention Darwin’s prescription diet. I spoke with James at Darwin’s this afternoon for quite a while about Hannah and what’s going on. I’ve printed out all the forms, nutritional analysis, etc. on the LS diet. He’s given me his direct line to give to Hannah’s vet and also said he’d gladly send the vet some samples if she wants to see the food herself. I told James I will not put her on any food the vet sells, Hills, SD, Royal Canin, whatever. Not after all the good she has derived from her present diet. I refuse to put her on crap diets for the remainder of her life regardless of how long or short it may be. Anyhow, he was so great and made me feel so much better. I have really been a totally wreck since Monday morning when the vet called with Hannah’s liver levels skyrocketing and out of control. After my conversation with him it was the first time all week that I felt like I could take a deep breath and actually breathe.

    Oh, and more great news. He gave me the name and phone numbers of three holistic/integral vets that he knew personally and from different conferences in my area. So it was a win win conversation.

    Thanks again for your post. I don’t feel quite so alone. I’ll be thinking of you on Saturday and will post everyone along the way about Hannah and next testing of x-ray and ultra sound and Cushing’s test.

    Everyone here has been keeping me a little saner and a lot less weepy. Thanks everyone from the bottom of my heart I love you all.

    #38378 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    I’ve had some wonderful conversations with James too. He does have a way of making you feel a little more in control of a previously out of control situation. I’ll be praying for Hannah’s tests tomorrow.

    #38379 Report Abuse

    NectarMom
    Member

    I have been through similar health issues and just let me throw it out there that you are much better off speaking to someone not involved in their product. They will tell you anything to make you feel better even if the advice is wrong. just sayin not judging

    #38400 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Dori,
    Glad you’re feeling better, also glad you talked to James. If I didn’t suspect Boone may have an issue with the fruits/veggies, he’d be on Darwins too.

    #38402 Report Abuse

    Dori
    Member

    Nectarmom. James gave me quite a bit of his time. Never actually suggested I started ordering and actually wants me to show all the info to Hannah’s vet and get her ok before ordering anything. He also gave me the names of three holistic vets and suggested I make appt. for Hannah with holistic vet and get their opinion, again, before deciding what food and supplements to use. No, I would never simply call a food company rep. and take their word for their product and then order it. But, thanks for your advice.

    Marie. As always, thank you. What kind of issues does Boone have with fruits/veggies? Is it both fruits and veggies or either or? What type of allergic issues? Don’t you just wish they could speak and tell us what their feeling? Somebody needs to work on that!! LOL! If only!

    #38405 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Dori,
    We aren’t sure. He started with ear infections, again, a year ago. We honestly have no idea what started them back up, after being free of them for almost seven years. I didn’t want him on raw again, simply due to money but after being fine on NB lid sweet potato & fish, he got another one. My holistic vet suggested stopping all supplements & said since his ear infections were yeast, she worried about fruits & veggies (sugar can feed yeast). So, back to ground raw for him.

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