[Kenneth K]

Stella and Chewy’s Raw Frozen (Raw Frozen)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog (Dehydrated)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog Cuisine (Canned)
Primal Raw Frozen Formulas (Raw Frozen)
Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Frozen Diets (Raw Frozen)

[USA]

Hi Mary C

The highest quality dog food would be one you made yourself using lean pasture raised meats and wild caught fish, fresh organic vegetables and a few supplements.

In commercial dog foods I would rate them as follows:
Raw
Dehydrated
Canned
Kibble

One of the issues with a very low carbohydrate food for dogs is the fat content. Most commercial foods with low carbs are high in fat, some are really high. If your dog doesn’t have any other health issues he or she might do fine with a high fat, high protein, low carb diet. If your dog has other issues such as pacreatitis a high fat diet might not work as well.

I strongly believe that with a diabetic dog the number one priority is to limit carbs as much as you can. After all, diabetes is a failure of the bodies ability to regulate and metabolize ALL carbohydrates and injected insulin cannot currently duplicate the bodies own production of insulin. Diabetes CAN be controlled with the proper diet, the proper insulin regimen and home testing of blood glucose.

So please tell me a little bit about your dog:
How old
Current food and amounts fed and at what times in relation to insulin injections
Current insulin regimen, what type, how often
Current blood sugar readings
Overall health and any issues besides diabetes

Once you develop a routine that works for you and your pup things get easier! Give your pup a hug for me!!!

[jen.mcco]

Curious if there is a listing of foods that include grain by any chance– I do rotation diets with my older boxers (5 yrs and 9 yrs) which include grain/grain-free/raw– WE do not feed corn/wheat/soy products and everything I feed is on the 4 or 5 star list– However we will be getting another boxer puppy in 3 wks– Although I would like to rotate his diets as well I would like to know if there are any 4 star foods that are acceptable for a large breed puppy that is not totally grain free-

[LabTX]

Hound Dog Mom, I’ve been reading a lot of your posts on the Large Breed Puppies topic and was wondering if you had some insight for a large breed adult puppy. I have a 7.5 yr old, 65lb, chocolate lab who has been on a RAW diet for the last 2-3 years. She has been through BARF, Tuckers, and most recently OC RAW. My wife thought it would be easier if we switched her back to dry food. The savings would be nice, but I’m worried about her health more than anything. Are there any decent dry food replacements that are going to do as well as the RAW? I will say, I have never seen a dog so excited to eat in my life. Sometimes I wonder if she’s constantly hungry on the RAW because of the way she acts, but she maintains a healthy 65lb weight.

[T]

Don’t forget to support gut healing (probiotics, digestive enzymes, L-glutamine, bone broth, etc.) while you are working on finding a diet that works for your guy.

For red, hot, itchy ears (with or without exudate), steer away from “hot” proteins like venison, lamb and chicken. Steer toward rabbit, turkey, white fish. Canned food, homemade cooked, or raw food are all “cooler” than dry kibble. Adding healthy fats like sardines and eggs can be very beneficial, too.

Green veggies can help cool things down, too. Just make sure you puree them or lightly cook or the dog may not derive full benefit of the veggies.

Also, I like Zymox or Zymox HC ear drops as an alternative to the strong meds most vets prescribe.

Tabitha
http://naturalalternativesvet.com

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nicole –

There’s no reason why you could not feed freeze-dried food in the morning and kibble in the evening. Just try it out and see how your dog reacts.

Sorry to hear you had such a terrible experience with frozen raw! 🙁 It can be frustrating for sure. Some dogs transition to raw with no issues, others take awhile and for a select few raw just may not be the right choice and may never work out. A regular here by the name of Cyndi had a VERY difficult time transitioning her dog to raw, but it eventually worked out and now her dog is doing very well on a raw diet. I was lucky, I transitioned all of mine to raw (cold turkey) with no problems.

[Nicole V]

Hello everyone,
I’m new to the forum and new to feeding raw. I have a 20lb terrier mutt that I adopted last year. She has a pretty sensitive stomach, and for a while I was convinced that she had a chicken intolerance. I’ve come to discover that this is not the case, which is a relief. I tried to transition her to a raw diet, but had a pretty terrible experience. When I try to feed her frozen raw, she gets very sick, and at one point had to be hospitalized. 🙁 The good news is that she seems to have no problems with freeze-dried raw (right now, I’m just feeding Stella & Chewy as a treat). I really have no explanations for this, but am grateful that I have the option. At this time, I’d like some advice on transitioning her to a 50% FD raw and 50% kibble diet. Right now, she’s eating Fromm’s kibble…I rotate their 4-star line, which she LOVES. I add wild salmon oil to her kibble every night. She also gets freeze-dried green tripe treats, sardines, and fresh fruit on a regular basis. I’m looking at Vital Essentials right now (I like the limited ingredients) and would like to feed this to her in the morning, and feed the kibble with fresh toppers at night. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone see any potential issues with feeding a sensitive dog this particular combo and on this schedule? I really appreciate any feedback.

[Naturella]

Christina, I would say probably give it a few days (2-3-ish) before you add a new ingredient just so you know if he would react for sure. As for tomatoes, I guess you could put them in a blender or food processor for a few seconds until they are pretty much mush, then try them. Make sure the whole elimination diet does not last too too long, as it is not a balanced way to feed a dog, so hopefully within 10-14 days you will know if he reacts to a particular ingredient. If he doesn’t react to any of the ones listed above, I would go with a grain-free diet, or a rice-and-maybe-oatmeal-or-millet-or-barley-as-the-only-grains diet. But grain-free is generally safer for an allergy-prone dog.

One of my classmates and friends told me that her dog was extremely itchy eating Pedigree and Beneful, so I told her what I know, and she got him on a grain-free diet – said the itch has been considerably reduced to just an occasional “normal” scratch here and there. She didn’t do an elimination diet, just straight up eliminated the grains, and she was lucky her dog did not react to anything else. So that is also another way you can approach it – just try a good quality fish-based kibble and add the THK Beams as treats and coconut oil, and see how that goes. I would probably still do an elimination though, just to be sure for myself. But, it may work out that he just needs good-quality grain-free kibble.

In case you want to just try the kibble round, some good grain-free kibbles (I will just list them for your ease, in no particular order) are:
Wellness Core – I want to feed in the future
Holistic Select
Orijen – I want to feed in the future
Acana Grain Free – I want to feed in the future
Victor Grain Free – I feed now
Earthborn Holistic Grain Free – I feed now
Dr. Tim’s Kinesis Grain Free – I have fed, no issues
Holistic Health Extension Grain Free – I have fed with no issues and I feed one of their grain-inclusive formulas now
Now! Fresh – I have fed a small bag (less than 1lb) with no issues
Nutrisca – I have fed, no issues
Nature’s Variety Instinct – I will feed (have a bag lined up under the sink, lol), and I have fed samples with no issues
Back to Basics Grain Free – I will feed the grain-inclusive one (have a bag lined up under the sink also)
NutriSource Grain Free – I have fed samples with no issue but it is severely overpriced in my area so I’m not sure I would buy a bag to feed it
Taste of the Wild – some don’t like it as it is produced by Diamond and that company had a huge recall issue in 2012 that they handled poorly, but 3 friends feed/have fed it with no issues
Blue Buffalo Wilderness – I have fed with no issues but some owners report tummy and stool issues with their dogs when on Blue food. However, 2 other friends have fed/still feed Blue with no issues.

I am sure others can pitch in with more recommendations, plus, if you can afford it/want to, it really is better to feed canned/dehydrated/homemade/raw. Or you can mix them up – I feed kibble and canned/THK food/fridge add-ins (like eggs, yoghurt, raw bones, etc.). But yeah, just start off with determining what works for Chance, you can always add new things once he is at least on better food. 🙂

[Naturella]

Christina, sounds like you are off to a good start! 🙂 For the diet, you can just use canned salmon in water, and some other fish (mackerel, sardine) to test him out (or use raw and either feed it like that or cook it up). Doesn’t have to be in the form of fish meal. And do try him with rice, white potatoes, sweet potatoes, green peas (frozen or canned), tomatoes, and, if you desire – other meats and grains. Or you can just go grain-free and not worry about trying him on other grains, but it is good to switch up the proteins every once in a while. So after the fish session, when he’s fully healed, you could try him on lamb, or bison/beef, or venison, or rabbit, etc., or chicken, if he’s good on it.

Once you know what to avoid, you can find a suitable food for him among the brands we mentioned above and others.

I got my THK Beams from http://www.petexpertise.com but I think you can fond them at the THK website as well: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com . Also at local pet boutiques or specialty stores near you. This website has a Store Locator tab somewhere, just go to the homepage and type store in the search box, it should pop up. Then you just enter your zip code and go from there.

[Naturella]

Christina – if you want to try the fish kibble, you should – what Sue recommends are good foods, also Victor Yukon Salmon and Earthborn Coastal Catch (what I currently feed) are good. Others are Wellness Core Ocean-something and Nutrisca Salmon – also pretty good. Just make sure the food is meat-rich with fish and fish meals.

But definitely try an elimination diet so that you know what to avoid because otherwise you may find yourself constantly switching between fish kibbles because one or another ingredient may cause him to flare up. The THK beams should help though, and hopefully he won’t be allergic to fish. Definitely start him on good raw UNREFINED coconut oil at 1 tsp/day and work up to 1 tbs. daily.

Good luck, keep us posted! 🙂

[Julie M]

Five months ago my vet suggested I put my overweight spayed Cocker Spaniel bitch on a Raw Meat diet to try and lose weight. She should be about 11Kg and was 12.5Kg Having read lots of info I started her off on 220g per day,divided into two feeds a day, primarily chicken drumsticks & wings, with offal once a week and tinned salmon, tuna or pilchards once a week. She also had about 50g part-cooked green veg (peas, beans, asparagus, cauliflower etc) to help fill her up as she is always hungry. Unfortunately she kept gaining weight. So on further advise I cut down the meat to 150g and increased the veg to 100g per day. But she is still gaining weight and today she has been weighed at 13.7Kg! I love her being on the diet as she actually has to chew & crunch food rather than hoovering it up in a matter of seconds. So the question now is what way to go…reduce the meat further and keep giving veg to fill her up or remove the veg and feed purely meat (as per the Atkins diet)? What would people recommend?

[Julie M]

Five months ago my vet suggested I put my overweight spayed Cocker Spaniel bitch on a Raw Meat diet to try and lose weight. She should be about 11Kg and was 12.5Kg Having read lots of info I started her off on 220g per day,divided into two feeds a day, primarily chicken drumsticks & wings, with offal once a week and tinned salmon, tuna or pilchards once a week. She also had about 50g part-cooked green veg (peas, beans, asparagus, cauliflower etc) to help fill her up as she is always hungry. Unfortunately she kept gaining weight. So on further advise I cut down the meat to 150g and increased the veg to 100g per day. But she is still gaining weight and today she has been weighed at 13.7Kg! I love her being on the diet as she actually has to chew & crunch food rather than hoovering it up in a matter of seconds. So the question now is what way to go…reduce the meat further and keep giving veg to fill her up or remove the veg and feed purely meat (as per the Atkins diet)? What would people recommend?

[pugmomsandy]

Check out the “body condition score” charts online. Keep a journal or something of your dog’s waist and chest measurement and body condition and weight. Evaluate him every month and decrease or increase his food accordingly. I feed mine to keep their body condition good, not necessarily to a desired weight. Mine are all obese by “breed standard” but they look great. Also feeding a complete commercial raw diet might help you keep track of calories or how much you feed by weight. For instance, I would feed mine 6 oz per day or 3 oz of raw plus another meal of something else.

[mah4angel]

So, first of all, hi! I haven’t posted in here for a while. Life has been crazy. I moved to LA, got a new job, etc. Louie is doing GREAT on his homemade raw diet.
But now I’m pretty sure he has fleas. I say “pretty sure” but, he has fleas.
He started slowly but surely scratching a little bit more every day when we moved from Salinas, CA (central/northern coast of California- relatively cool, mild weather) to LA in January. He usually hits his hindquarters, paws, underbelly, and less so his face. I’ve been checking him for fleas periodically for a while now and hadn’t found anything. And then all of a sudden summer hit and his scratching got completely out of control very very suddenly. He’s scratching more now than not and EVERYWHERE. And then last night I found one TINY little bug near the hip of one of his hind legs. It was about the size of a spec of dirt, about the size of lice, actually and it scurried away when I parted his fur. Then I found another bug, bigger, about the size of one of those tiny flies but elongated. Friggin’ flea…
I’ve been bathing him with Dr. Harvey’s flea and tick shampoo and rotating between ONPS Herbal Defense Oil and Richard Organics Flea and Tick Spray and I’m so disheartened that my poor baby has fleas 🙁 How do I get rid of them holistically? How much do I have to worry about an infestation in my house?? What do I do for my poor Louie?

[jakes mom]

I’d like some advice on managing the “add ins”, toppers, occasional RMBs I’m trying to incorporate into my dog’s meals. Jake was always fed kibble, period. Since finding this site I’ve been reading so much and getting a bit overwhelmed. I’m not ready to do completely raw but have added some RMBs as well as liver, hearts and gizzards, turkey necks. I’ve read about Honest Kitchen dehydrated food, have a small box of that to use as a topper. I’ve read the ABC diet from the See Spot Live Longer site and think that’s an appealing compromise. I’m concerned that I don’t know exactly how to balance it all. How do I balance the extra calories of the add ins? If I decrease the kibble I’m afraid he won’t get the basic nutrients he needs. If I don’t, he’s going to get chubby. I read that 20% of the diet could be unbalanced before issues arise but I’m not sure how to figure that out. Adding a bit of fresh meat/veg and decreasing the kibble might balance out the volume but still be extra calories. How many calories in a 4 inch piece of turkey neck, for Pete’s sake? Do I just give him extras some days with a little less kibble and other days just give him his basic kibble ration with no extras and hope it all evens out in the end? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Bobby dog]

Hello:
Checked out the NV canned cat food to see if my pet stores had the deal C4c ran into, they didn’t. 🙁
I picked up beef liver for the ABC diet. I went to two grocery stores and that was the only thing on my raw list I could find. 🙁 I was going to hit a third grocery store on my way home, but I ran out of time. That one probably will have some of the items I am looking for; next time I will start there first.

I also picked up lactobacillus & bifidobacterium capsules and plain Greek yogurt for the kitties. I have been sprinkling one capsule each/day on Tyler’s food; he does not like yogurt. I have been alternating yogurt and capsules with Archie; he’s a good eater. I hope Archie’s coat continues to fill out. The bald spots are really growing fur now. His skin is still dry, but has improved a great deal. I’ll keep you up to date in case anyone else has these types of issues with their cats in the future.

Akari:
Hope all is well.

Not a coupon deal, but one of my pet store’s deal this month is B1G1 free any size dog or cat food of Cali Nat’l or EVO. Picked up two small bags of EVO for the cats for $9.99 total and three cans of Wellness using my $1.00 off coupons for each. 😉 I was in there looking around for food to buy this Sunday during their anniversary sale, 25% off everything, wahoooo!

[3dogmom]

Thanks, pugmomsandy, I appreciate the feedback. Should I give the chicken raw and with the bone? Sorry, but I am new to the raw diet and want to make sure I get it right!

[3dogmom]

Hi all,
I have recently switched my 3 hounds to a raw diet – Bravo performance dog food. I transitioned them slowly from their kibble and they have now been on the raw diet only for about 6 weeks. They LOVE the food!! The problem is that 2 of the 3 are having severely loose stools. The third has looser stools than usual, but not as bad as the others. I have added a probiotic to the mix, Purina Fortifore, which I am giving them each one packet once a day with their meals. I also supplement with Salmon oil, but I am not giving the the recommended dose of that yet because of the loose stools and gurgling tummies. I am wondering if the beef based food is too fatty for them? Should I switch to another protein source? They are a pure basset, a basset-beagle mix, and a blu etick basset mix (he’s handling the switch the best). I have scoured the net looking for help/suggestions, and so far this is the most knowledgeable forum I have found. Any and all help is truly appreciated!

[Shasta220]

Yes! definitely avoid any grains…. Where did you get this pup? Was it a breeder?! If so, that person has ZERO right to be breeding wolf dogs without knowing about the wolf’s nutritional needs! Any proper WD breeder would encourage a raw diet, or at least stress the GF and high-protein needs. DN is not a super protein-rich (animal based, not grain/plant based) and is a lousy choice for a wolf.

Sorry about the rant on wolves…. But if you have a Facebook, then try finding the group “For Sale Wolf Puppies.” I have a friend (wolf dog breeder…she breeds between about 60 and 90% WDs) who is the main admin for that page (she calls herself “Obie Wolf” on there)… I’d suggest trying to get into that group, then shoot Obie Wolf a message. She will give amazing tips on where to get meat and how much to feed.

I also agree with Hounddogmom’s suggestion about that book. It’s a very good read 🙂

[Ron M]

I was reading last week from a site called The Dog Press and one of the editors had a list of ingredients to avoid. She had on the list most of the meat meals. The reasoning
was high levels of fluoride due to the manufacturing process. I have no clue on the validity. But will pass along the link. They do seem to favor a species appropriate diet, in this case raw and variety.
She listed other ingredients that are inappropriate that I have a hard time agreeing with.
One was probiotics, I can understand in certain situations that they may be contraindicated.But I’m not sure I would throw out the baby with the bath water.
Anyways here is the link if you would like to take a look.
http://www.thedogpress.com/DogFood/Ingredients_Liquorman.asp

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would agree with Shasta220 about considering a raw diet. The book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown would be a great starting point. If not – the only food on your list that is appropriate for large breed puppies (to my knowledge) is Wellness CORE Puppy.

[Shasta220]

Out of those options though, I’d probably go with Blue Wilderness or Core (I’m guessing it’s Wellness Core, right?). But you really should, at the very least, top with a minimum of 20-50% raw meats. Or even canned food. I still am leaning very very strongly on raw for a wolf’s diet…

[Shasta220]

Is this your first WD (wolf dog)? Wolves have different dietary needs that dogs, and kibble is usually a bad idea for them. I know some WD breeders personally, and they say that kibble containing grains can be disasterous.

I’d definitely suggest looking into a raw food. If you don’t want to take the time for that, then definitely make sure the food is grain free and has a large amount of meat…

[Wanda F]

Yes..just after I ordered Orijen on-line someone on here recommended See Spot Live Longer. I checked it out and will absolutely find a way to incorporate that into his diet either with the Orijen or without. I’ve read that Orijen is so high in protein, it can cause disgestive problems and even liver problems all though that seems doubtful. Sooo, I’m mixing current kibble (Nutrisca) and raw in hopes of getting him used to a higher level of protein. He kind of ignors the Nutrisca and waits for raw..that should be a hint. Anybody need a bag of Orijen?

[USA]

I agree with Betsy. For a dog with cancer who is not already eating a raw diet and doing well on it I would not want to add the additional bacterial load that comes with raw food. A lot of healthy dogs do very well on a raw diet and this is something worth trying in dogs who are not fighting cancer or other serious illnesses.

Kibble is highly processed and the way it is made and the ingredients that it uses are the furthest from a NATURAL diet for a canine that you can feed your dog. The fact that kibble is a dry food adds additional stress to a dog’s kidneys and liver.

If a homemade lightly cooked diet is not an option a high quality low carb canned food would be much more beneficial for all dogs than kibble but especially for a dog dealing with a serious illness.

[Danni D]

Ugh…if you can get your dog off of the Pedigree.
It’s just not good for them.
I can vouch for Pure Balance, I rotate that in my Rottie’s diet, he also gets raw, freshpet and canned. I change his kibble every bag though. But he has done well on it.
Here is a controversial one to some but I have had great luck and health- Diamond Naturals not the plain cheaper Diamond. I fed my last rot this food for 15 years along with Raw and he did fine- it is also in my current rotation. It is not a bad food but Diamond has had a history of recalls. Many other Pet food makers have had recalls. Many are skiddish about Diamond because of this but it’s not a bad food. They make many other brands as well.
You can get Diamond Naturals of all kinds for great prices at Menards.
I wish I could tell you about 4health but living where I live we don’t have many feed stores. I do want to try it though as well as Eagle Pack.
Victor is a great food for my Rot, he likes it. My Pom got sick on it but he has a sensitive belly- kibble doesn’t sit well.
I bought Authority once and found maggots so ugh…not one I would feed but I know many do.

Hey Betsy- if you don’t mind little hijack- where do you get raw meaty bones? Butcher?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Danni D.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Ally,

You’re right, Omega 3’s are a great way to help with your dog’s coat and dander issues. Another great way to add Omega 3’s is with a sardine every few days. I’m talking about sardines in water that are packed in a small tin with a pull back top. You can usually pick them up at Wal-Mart for about a buck. Fresh whole food ingredients are perfect to add to your pups diet.

Also, a great way to fill up your pups tummy without adding extra calories is with frozen green beans. Because your dog’s first tract is so short, your pup will mostly eliminate the beans (poop), but the beans will create the feeling of fullness.

Here is a really great little download a friend shared with me about adding fresh whole food ingredients to your dog’s diet. It’s written by Steve Brown, a man who many feel is an expert in animal nutrition and raw feeding. The download costs $2.95, so you’ll need to ask a parent about it first. http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

Good luck with feeding your pup! You’re obviously a very loving and attentive pet owner!

[DogFoodie]

I’d opt for a lightly cooked diet over a raw diet and I’d choose canned over kibble, for a dog with cancer.

[LexiDog]

If you are not into making a homemade food (I am not at this moment but may later consider it), you can try commerical raw dog food. Stella & Chewys and Primal are wonderful. Those are what I feed my dog.

Kibble – Dogswell Live Free has a low glycemic impact becuase they use peas and chickpeas for their starch. Compared to Science Diets W/D (Glucose Management formula) which has 51% carbs, Live Free looks pretty good. Their canned food is supposed to be even lower in carbs.

I just emailed them to find out their carb & ash content. Below is what they replied with:
Carbs
LIVE FREE Puppy Chicken 21%
LIVE FREE Adult Chicken 23%
LIVE FREE Senior Chicken 24%
LIVE FREE Adult Lamb 21%
LIVE FREE Adult Salmon 22%
LIVE FREE Adult Turkey 22%

Ash
LiveFree Puppy Chicken 7.8%
LiveFree Adult Chicken 7.7%
LiveFree Senior Chicken 8.8%
LiveFree Adult Lamb 8.7%
LiveFree Adult Salmon 8.7%
LiveFree Adult Turkey 9.7%

Hope this helps!

[Bobby dog]

Marie: For ticks you use it like a flea powder

Akari:
I used to buy Shoo Flea by the Natural Vet, really liked it but just didn’t fit into the budget anymore. The main ingredient in Shoo Flea is food grade DE and it is scented with a capsule of herbs and essential oils. I began using plain food grade DE several years ago as a flea powder and for treating pet beds, floors etc with good results. Keep in mind it does not kill them immediately.

I have seen warnings about DE clogging vacuums, it has never happened to me. I just make sure I take their bedding outside to shake them out then throw them in the washer. I have only had to use DE on the floors in my basement so I swept the floor well before vacuuming.

Be careful not to inhale the dust or let your pets inhale the dust.

I have never fed it to my cats or dogs.

The one drawback I found using it as a flea powder is that it can dry their skin. I always use organic unrefined coco oil as a food supplement when using it. Fish oil would probably be a good choice also. I use CVS 1000 mg fish oil capsules for Bobby and the cats. The good thing about coco oil is it can be applied externally. As a flea deterrent I had the best luck using coco oil applied directly to the skin, but it can be messy for your furniture. Coco oil does very well at soothing skin irritations like flea bites. I apply DE first, then coco oil if needed in certain areas. I used coco oil daily on Bobby last summer. Hopefully I won’t have to treat flea bites this year because his yeasty smell is gone and his skin is healthy since I have improved his diet. So far so good!

Good thing I checked the links I saved on DE, some of them no longer existed.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/benefits-diatomaceous-earth/
http://www.vetinfo.com/using-diatomaceous-earth-to-worm-pets.html
http://www.diatomaceousearth.com/?gclid=CJ2Dt8S5p74CFaQF7Aod5g4AcA
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/parasites/a/Diatomaceous-Earth-For-Flea-Control.htm
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html&sa=U&ei=9l5xU7PaKPLHsATEvYCQCA&ved=0CB0QFjAA&sig2=DCYxeQKLHzMoXm6BYZtcxw&usg=AFQjCNHLDmVU6sLMs22UbzqWxC0OnCzAVw

[jakes mom]

The See Spot Live Longer site has a booklet called the ABC diet. One day a week is all fresh/raw food, the other days are the usual diet, dry, canned whatever you’ve been feeding. He also mentions that instead of one whole day you can spread the fresh menu items over the course of a week, just adjusting the kibble amounts. So apparently he doesn’t see a problem with mixing kibble and raw.

[Shawna]

Great advice BCnut!! 🙂

Hi Kayley L,

BCnut is absolutely correct. Kibble is the absolute WORST thing you can feed a dog with kidney disease. My dog was born with kidney disease, diagnosed at age one and will be eight years old next month. She has been on HIGH protein raw her whole life. Much higher than 30% even. Her raw diet (I rotate between proteins and brands) ranges from 45 to 54% on a dry matter basis.

The original research suggesting protein was problematic was actually done on rats not dogs or cats. Later research, done on dogs, has disproven the original research but for some reason vets cling to this original research. Nutritionist Mary Straus has some different sources discussing the protein myth on her page here http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Phosphorus can be a probelm at any stage of the disease but it isn’t always a problem in the earlier stages. Audrey, in her eight years with kidney disease, has never been on a lower phosphorus diet. Mary lists generally accepted amounts of phosphorus in the diet for the different stages of the disease on this page. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html#start

When digested, proteins break down into amino acids. The body uses those amino acids to make antioxidants (glutathione), enzymes, new cells etc. What the body doesn’t use ends up as blood urea nitrogen. How well the body uses the amino acids in any particular protein is called bioavailability. I noticed last night that Dr. Foster’s and Smith website has a good explanation of protein bioavailability. They write
“Can I tell which proteins are better than others?
Not all proteins are created equal, and some are better for pets than others. Every protein source contains different levels of amino acids and each protein is different in its ability to be broken down into amino acids. The ability of a protein to be used by the body and its amount of usable amino acids is termed biological value. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard by which other proteins are judged. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.” http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459

Removing chemicals in the environment that have to be cleared through the kidneys can help too. These chemicals may not be harmful but as another thing for the kidneys to clear they still can be problematic. Anything that could be inhaled or get absorbed through the paw could be potential problems. Giving clean (filtered) water can be very important too.

Mary has some really good info on her site if you get a chance to read through it all. Nutritionist Lew Olson of b-naturals.com also has some data on her site (along with a couple recipes). Darwin’s has a high protein, lower phosphorus raw diet that was formulated by Dr. Barbara Royal DVM if interested in raw but not wanting to have to prepare it.

There’s so much more that you can do as well. Let us know if you are interested in the additional info.

Thanks BCnut! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.

[theBCnut]

Dogs with kidney issues need to be on canned or raw food. Getting moisture into their diets is most important. The reason that vets always jump on the protein issue is that protein contains phosphorus and excess phosphorus can cause problems in advaned stages of kidney disease. You do not need to restrict protein in early stages, but the protein needs to be good quality and less processed, which kibble is not. I’ll see if I can get Shawna to come to the forum side and help you.

[RescueDaneMom]

I have no clue why it was removed from the list but if your dogs are doing well on it, I wouldn’t stop feeding it because it is not on the Editor’s List. Keep in mind that the list is the opinion of a few people (granted they are knowledgeable). If I had to guess, I doubt it’s because of their company or practices. It may be because of price or availability issues. I really can’t think of any other issues that would keep it from the list. They are an impeccable company.

I have been feeding HK for 6 years. I first started using it as a topper. Now I use it as the base of my dog’s diet. I feed Max 50% HK (Embark, Love, and Keen). The other 50% is made of raw and additions like eggs and kefir. Occasionally I will make homecooked food for a change. In my personal opinion, HK is better for your dog than any of the kibbles on the EC list because it is less processed than kibble. It is dehydrated so it is exposed to low heat but dehydration is a much gentler process than extrusion which is what it takes to make kibble. I made the switch to feeding half HK because I didn’t want to feed kibble anymore and it is so much more convenient than homemade food.

I hope that this post is helpful to you. Also, if you are a regular user, I would contact HK about buying directly from them. They give a bulk discount as well and you earn points toward free food with every purchase.

[LexiDog]

So, I am learning that canned food is better than kibble. Right now my dog is on Stella & Chewy’s frozen raw but I like to switch it up, so I was giving her kibble. Now, I am thinking of adding canned in the mix. I have also had samples of Grandma Lucy’s and my girl liked those, but I have yet to feed a whole bag. That is also something I want to try too.

Couple questions, is it safe to switch foods, including forms of food (raw, canned, freeze dried and kibble) often? I have read the Rotating Food posts, so it is good to switch foods/proteins, but how much is too much? If my girl is doing ok, no loose stool, vomiting, ect..then is this acceptable? Is there anything that I should worry about?

I have really only given her raw or kibble. I want to maybe throw a couple cans of food in here and there to mix things up. The brands I was thinking about are: Weruva Human Style, Tiki Dog and ZiwiPeak. Anyone have input on these? How did your dog do on them? They all seem to be top notch and are all rated 5 starts.

Any thoughts on the “Extreme Rotational Diet” or the canned foods is appreciated!!

[Janie]

I wrote articles about raw diet in my blog essentiallydogs.com. It is great to hear that others are learning the importance of a proper diet. About switching brands, there is really no need to do that. I simply switch the formulas. For example, one day beef, next day chicken… I feed my girls Barfworld. B stands for biologically, A stands for appropriate, R is Raw, F is Food. I have arranged that people who mention essentiallydogs.com will get free shipping for a year. In order to get that promotion, you have to speak directly to Al. I made the arrangement with him. 1-866-282-2273. Vital Essentials DOES look like a good one, but my dogs have done so well with Barfworld. I DEFINATELY prefer raw to dehydrated or freeze dried.

[Janie]

My biggest issue with dog food (most dry & canned), is the vitamin premix. If the ingredient label contains a list of vitamins & minerals, it is EXTREMELY likely that those vitamins are sourced from China. China is contaminating products with melamine which is why dogs are becoming ill and dying. It is NOT salmonella. Dog food manufacturers are not required to disclose the sources of ingredients. ONLY where the product is manufactured. I stick with a raw food diet. i wrote extensitely about these issues on my website essentiallydogs.com. You can type keywords on the website search bar. Raw, salmonella, and FDA are good keywords to search.

[Gloraidy R]

I’m also looking for a free of synthetic vitamins and minerals, grain free/good for sensitive dogs to allergies, and i can make it into a rotational dry kibble diet(cans are too expensive to feed to large dogs and i dont have the fridge space for a raw/home made diet). I recently heard of different studies (done with humans, not dogs so it might/not apply) where the researchers compared the health of people who took synthetic vitamins from pills and those that took their vitamins from their diet(vegetables, fruits, meats ect.). They found that those that took synthetic vitamins had higher occurrences of cancer than those who ate their naturally occurring vitamins in foods. Here are two sources where you can get this info from: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/selenium-vitamin-e-supplements-increase-decrease-prostate-cancer-risk-201402287059 , http://www.cancer.org/healthy/eathealthygetactive/acsguidelinesonnutritionphysicalactivityforcancerprevention/acs-guidelines-on-nutrition-and-physical-activity-for-cancer-prevention-diet-cancer-questions
“Can nutritional supplements lower cancer risk?
There is strong evidence that a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and other plant-based foods may reduce the risk of cancer. But there is no proof at this time that supplements can reduce cancer risk. Some high-dose supplements may actually increase cancer risk.”

so please help me find one >.< for my very special adopted senor furbabies.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Gloraidy R.

[Danni D]

I just wanted to say thanks (from Osux) to the both of you and your advice. I feel like you guys along with my vet (who loves premium foods) will get down to the bottom of my little Pom’s belly aches. You guys turned my frustration around. I was about to give up and give in to the Purina/Science Diet temptation.
So thank you and I appreciate all the advice. 🙂
Danni

[Steven K]

Please provide input/suggestions, and if possible, those with German Shepherds. Thank you very much!

A quick intro-wife and I used to raise Rotties. I always had German Shepherds growing up. We are now 80% empty nesters and recently bought a GS puppy-male. On Monday he was 10 wks old. I am currently mixing Taste of the Wild High Prairie and Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain-Free (Dry) Beef Frittata. I wet it w/ warm water. He loves it, clean bowl at every meal. For reward treats we’ve been using Orijen & Zukes and baby carrots, both cooked and raw. I know raw don’t get 100% digested, but he loves crunchy on those. He loves Orijen, but they are expensive.
Again, wanting opinions and suggestions from those that have been raising Shepherds as we are new to the game-been some time since we’ve had a puppy!
Thanks

[theBCnut]

Three meal a week is how many unbalanced meals you can feed if you feed twice a day. That keeps the unbalanced portion to under 20% of the diet.

Dogs do just fine on one meal a day or one meal every other day or one big meal one day and a small one the next, or whatever as long as they get the right number of calories. You can do whatever works for you and your dog.

I was talking to a prey model raw feeder a few months ago and he said that if he had a four lb chunk of meat for his dog, he gave it a four lb chunk of meat and then figured out how many days he should wait to feed it again. Same with an eight lb chunk of meat. It sounded like he was talking about wolf sized dogs, so maybe four or eight lbs of meat wouldn’t go quite as far with his dogs as it does with mine, but the idea is the same, dogs were made to gorge and fast, it’s people that have a problem with that.

[CSollers]

IMHO, many vets do not endorse a raw diet because they dont sell it. Canine nutrition is not a major portion of veterinary training.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ray C –

I think most of us here would agree that when it comes to feeding dogs the most important thing is feeding a wide variety of species-appropriate foods. Species-appropriate foods will be high in animal-derived protein, high in moisture and minimally processed. For this reason the best option is a balanced raw diet (home prepared or commercially prepared), the next best option is a fresh cooked diet (home prepared or commercially prepared), followed by dehydrated and freeze-dried foods (many commercial raw products – such as Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, etc. – are available in both frozen form as well as freeze-dried form and there are dehydrated products such as The Honest Kitchen and NRG that are great), canned would be the next best option and kibble would come in last as the worst thing to feed. If you do have to feed some kibble for budget or time related reasons don’t fret – there are some decent kibbles one the market and you can always “top” the kibble with a more species-appropriate food form to increase the overall quality of the meal. For a puppy you will want to make sure the food that you feed is either approved for “growth” or for “all life stages” (may also read approved for “growth and maintenance”). Head over to the review section of the site and look through the 4 and 5 star foods to find some you want to try. And remember – don’t pick just one food! Rotating is very important, feeding just one food over time will lead to a weak gut (these are the dogs you hear about that get diarrhea/upset stomachs when their owners try to switch their food – don’t let that be your dog!).

Good luck and congrats on the new puppies! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Wanda F]

Didn’t even realize there were premixes. Thanks so much for the info. The veternarians Brewer has seen don’t know as much about canine nutrition as you guys do; best $19.99 I’ve ever spent. Why is it most vets. recommend/prescribe corn based food, typically Purina? I walked out of one office with a 6 pound bag ($26.99) and the first 3 ingredients
were rice, corn gluten and whole grain corn. Another vet wouldn’t even discuss a raw diet; thought Brewer would choke on the raw bones and get Ecoli or something.
I think the pre-mixes are a good idea; one meal raw, one kibble. What do you know about Nutrisca/Dogswell?I was surprised it wasn’t listed in Editor’s Choice.

[Steven A]

I switched my dogs from RAW diet to Wellness Brand Core Ocean without any problems. They went through 1 12 pound bag and for the most part enjoyed it. I decided to move them to Small Breed Core. I transitioned them from half and half Ocean and Small Breed. After a week they were on 100% Small Bread. That is when the SH*T it the fan literally.
After three days on Core Small Breed they had the runs bad 6 to 7 Bowel movements a day. All over the house. My poor wife was stuck with the situation while I was out of town. I returned the Small Breed today in exchange for a small bag Ocean and one of Wild Game. They ate a meal of the Ocean although my male is not to fond of it( he liked it at first but now is temperamental with it). He will not finish his dinner. I’m thinking of mixing the Wild Game and Ocean to get him a more palatable combination. For now it’s Ocean and wait and see if they get back to normal.

[Sue’s Zoo]

I have two large pups (10m, 95lbs; 7m, 68lbs). Thanks to this website I’m now raw feeding though I’ve stressed about it quite a bit (mostly unnecessarily I”m sure). But when I talked to my holistic vet she suggested if I needed more bulk in diet especially when problems occur, oats would be the way to go. I haven’t researched this further but thought I’d pass it along as something you could check further.

Good luck!

[theBCnut]

If you were starting a raw diet, I would recommend consumable bones and yes, we do feed raw chicken bones, as well as turkey, duck, quail, etc., just not cooked. But for a kibble fed dog that needs some chewing satisfaction and some teeth cleaning, I recommend rib bones, pork, lamb, goat, beef. These bones are pretty safe for your dog to eat the whole thing, if he really loves chewing, but they provide a bit more challenge, so do a great job on teeth. You can get a slab of ribs and ask the butcher to cut them into individual ribs. Whole beef ribs are probably a bit big for your dog so you would want to have him cut those in half unless you find short ribs. Give one a couple times a week.

[Shasta220]

Wolf shepherd as in wolf hybrid? I’ve never owned a hybrid (well, except for my 25% guy, but that hardly counts). But I have friends who raise and train hybrids for pets – they only feed their wolf hybrids a raw diet. They say kibble isn’t good for a Wolfdog at all, especially anything grain-inclusive.

Other than that, definitely check out the large breed thread. Lots of helpful advice on there 🙂

[T]

Hey, everyone! Glad to see this discussion… One of my favorite topics.

As for proteins, different people classify them in different ways, but in general:
Hot: venison, lamb
Warm/hot: chicken
Neutral: Beef, rabbit, duck
Cool: turkey, fish, pork

Some people say beef and turkey are also warm. Since most animals are eating chicken, or lamb when I meet them, I end up recommending beef, turkey, duck, rabbit and fish a lot. I am in Phoenix, AZ, very dry and hot much of the year. Seems like animals can tolerate the warmer proteins in the winter, though. Seasonality should influence food choice as well as the constitution of the animal (hyper/”fire” animals may benefit from cooler foods).

It’s OK to feed a little bit of warming food with the cooling diet! Balance is the key word. Also, the cooking method has influence on food energetics. For example, raw lamb would be cooler than boiled lamb. Boiled lamb would be cooler than baked lamb, etc. Green veggies are cooling, in general. Dairy is cool and damp (now I know why I get sinusitis from eating a lot of ice cream!).

I am dreaming of putting together a seminar on the topic of pet foods, food energetics, etc. one day.

Tabitha Thompson, DVM CVM
http://naturalalternativesvet.com

[Susan]

How do you know its food allergies?? You sure they dont have Enviornment allergies, My boy gets itchy red paws & itchy skin & he has enviornment allergies, only 1-5% of dogs will have true food allergies, Im reading a book at the moment & its rare for dogs to have food allergies, Dr Rob Zammit writes, the number of dogs that really have a food allergy is fewer than the number of dogs diagnosed with the condition, far too often, if a dog has a non-seasonal propensity to scratch it is diagnosed as having a food allergy without proper testing..the only way you’ll know if its food is you must do an elimination diet, A reasonable elimination diet is cooked rice & lamb, no snacking inbetween meals,.In the case of true food allergy improvement will be seen after 7 days with the dogs skin looking normal by the end of 3 weeks. If ur dogs improve on an elimination diet it could be useful to include additives such as polyunsaturated oil, omega oils & other natural oils found in various herbs, the critical thing is to add only 1 additive at a time. The best starting point is omega oils add this a the recommended dose for aleast 6 weeks , if there’s no deterioration in symtoms then add another additive can be given if the lamb & rice is working then the next additive should be in the form of raw bone, these must be sheep origin, so use mutton flaps, lamb necks or brisketbones from sheep again no other additives must be given for another 6 weeks. You may want to pick another meat, but only use the raw meaty bones from that animal….also bathing should be done weekly with a good oatmeal base shampoo too keep the oils in the skin, if ur using all those product they are not working maybe its a time for a change with products, I use Malaseb medicated shampoo & I saw an improvement within 3 weeks, skin started growing back also Blackmores has a excellent dog range called Paw (Pure Animal wellbeing) I also uses the Paw Nutriderm replenishing conditioner this can be left on the skin moisturising the skin weekly… The basis of the diet could become a good quality super premium dry food as long as the ingredients are similar to those used during the elimnation diet…