[AReim]

I have an 11 yr. old American Eskimo with chronic acute pancreatitis. I’m beyond worried now as he is consistently losing more weight. He should be around 21 lbs and he is now at 15 lbs.

We have struggled with his condition for years and at this point I have no faith in what the vet recommends. I stumbled across this site this morning while researching solutions for my other dog – a very itchy mixed breed (I’ll deal with that is a separate post). There seems to be a lot of well informed people here and I am hoping someone may be able to help me.

After a severe attack several years ago, a full work up (labs, x-rays … the works) the vet informed me that his intestinal and stomach lining are “thicker than normal” and that it was likely a birth defect.

With that diagnosis, he was put on Hills Science WD canned formula. (Cerenia was also prescribed to treat the acute attacks.) We’ve tried other “vet recommended” foods but always end up back with the WD formula because he seems to tolerate it the best. I’ve even spoken with Hill’s Science “dieticians” but they are ALL CLUELESS (including the vet) as to what else might work better. The vet & dietician have always advised that hi-fat content is what will usually triggers the attacks but that is all they can tell me. They have never recommended grain-free or organic – or addressed potential food allergies as an aggravator.

All of his routine check-ups & labs show him to be otherwise healthy. His poop is usually normal. (However, we do have a poop eating problem and I sometimes wonder if it’s because he is SOOO hungry because he’s not getting enough nutrition.)

His attacks are episodic. Sometimes he is fine for weeks – other times we may have a couple of attacks in a week. His typical symptoms include any combination of: gurgling tummy, vomiting (sometimes bile, other times completely undigested food), abdominal pain (he won’t lie down for hours – I’ve had to hold him so he could sleep), and refusal to eat. On a rare occasions he’s had diarrhea and I’ve had to take him to the vet for an IV due to dehydration several times over the years.

Any help, advice, or recommendations that will help me get some weight back on him and help with the pancreatitis would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!

[Sad Puppy]

So if every dog food contains that much fat or similar, I guess my takeaway from all this is that I should research a dog’s breed to see if that breed is prone to pancreatitis, and then feed them accordingly. We will never know really what the problem was with my dog, but this is a lesson learned for me. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

Then every dog food everywhere would have to have that warning, because it really is an issue with individual dogs, not the food. Mine do fine on it at 30% fat. They have no way of knowing that a dog is going to be prone to pancreatitis, if that even is what the problem was.

[theBCnut]

It would be high for a dog prone to pancreatitis, but for my dogs it would be low, so that is a level that is kind of subjective. For normal dogs, you usually want fat% to be 1/2 of protein%, so for a dog that can handle it, even 30% isn’t that high, but there are a lot of small breeds that can’t handle that much fat.

Please take care of yourself.

[Sad Puppy]

We started giving Dinovite to an older female cocker spaniel and within a week she was dead. The vets cannot say for sure what the cause of her death was and she may very well have had a pre existing condition, but I thought I should put this out there. We followed the recipe on the Dinovite website for the cooked food and one possibility that was mentioned by one of the vets was that the hamburger in the recipe may have been too high in fat, causing pancreatitis. Since the dog died so quickly and suddenly, no extensive tests were run to find the actual cause and we will never know if it was a coincidence or if something in her food caused a horrible reaction.
.

[sor]

I wonder if he has a malabosorbtion problem. Sounds like he is not absorbing nutrients from the food he is eating. Get a lab work up on him. I would seriously change his diet and ask your vet about purchasing a supplement called pancreazyme. It is for pancreatitis but it will help him absorb nutrients from the food he eats and he will gain weight. It is safe to use even if he doesn’t have pancreatitis. Pancreazyme is pricey but well worth it and the best product to use. He needs to be on a much better diet. Diet is MEDICINE for pets and for people. Try Halo dog food. I highly recommend it! Introduce it slowly with cooked chicken and cooked pasta – make sure it is very soft. (easy to digest) Feed him three times a day – 1 1/4 cups three times a day, use 1/2 cup dry and the rest chicken and pasta and slowly make a transition to feeding him twice a day. He needs 2 cups of food twice a day once he is back to normal. The protein i look for in a pet food for a large dog is: Crude Protein 28% (Min), Crude Fat 12% (Min), or Crude Protein 28% (Min), Crude Fat 16% (Min) Halo dog food has the correct protein/fat ratios. I would recommend the turkey and duck to start with because it has less fat, not knowing if the fat content in the food he is eating is causing him to have problems. Trust me this is the best food out there!

[theBCnut]

Unless your dog is on a low fat diet, that may be too much fat. It can also cause digestive upset and in some dogs would be enough to cause pancreatitis.

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Nancy-

Several of my dogs are schnauzers which are very prone to pancreatitis, and need the fat closely watched as well. With that said, I choose lean meats, and then still trim off what I can. So far, in the past two weeks, they have eaten homemade raw(used commercial made before) using chicken, lean beef, beef heart and venison. No problems with them so far..

[sor]

Do not feed Canine Caviar to your pet!!!! I was feeding Canine Caviar for years and the past year and half the food smells tainted, has a perfume smell and tastes as it smells. None of the protein in the food smells like duck, venison, chicken or fish. I cook for my dog and add 1 cup of dry dog kibble. My rottweiler has developed a dry, pungent smelly hair coat, pungent stools, goopy eyes, and a hot spot that is slowly healing for 9 months now. (thyroid is normal) I was constantly returning bags of dog food because of the tainted smell and recently the feed store stated that I could no longer return the food because they don’t get reimbursed for it. So, I contacted Canine Caviar again with this ongoing problem – the tainted perfume smell and etc. The company mailed me a new batch of their food and it smelled worse! Canine Caviar has not been returning my phone calls and they don’t have an email address. (makes me real suspicious) Canine Caviar is processed in Georgia, but they change processing plants all the time. PLEASE DON’T BUY THIS FOOD for your pet! IF YOU DO, SMELL AND TASTE IT. RETURN IT IF IT SMELLS TAINTED! DO FOOD SHOULD SMELL GOOD NOT TAINTED! I do not want my dog or any other pets to die of kidney or liver failure from tainted pet food. Most pet food companies care more about profit and saving money, than caring about the quality of pet food they produce. It is very sad. After much research, I decided to feed Halo dog food that is ownd by actress Ellen DeGeneres. It is the highest quality pet food on the market!!!! I feel Ms. DeGeneres is a very honest person, has integrety and cares about quality ingredients in Halo pet food. She can afford to buy the the best of the best ingredients for her pet food, unlike her competitors. I wish I fed my dog Halo a long time ago. All of the Halo products have the correct protein and fat ratio along with real meat (not meal or rendered) just real food ingredients, and nothing from china. – Smaller size kibble for large dogs (helps prevent bloat) and the food SMELLS amazing! My dog did not have any issues with digestive problems during the slow introduction of the food. He loves Halo dog food and so do I. This is the ultimate pet food on the market with real food ingredients !!!! Halo also makes a vegan food which is fabulous for dogs that suffer from pancreatitis.

[Mom2Cavs]

I can’t advise you to switch from animal to plant enzymes, but I do know that my dogs do the best on plant enzymes for everyday feeding. One time, years ago, my now deceased Shih-Poo had an acute pancreatitis attack. The vet we were seeing at the time gave him some enzymes (animal) and he recovered from it all, fwiw.

[Melissaandcrew]

Keep a close eye on him. Sometimes the snap test for pancreatitis comes up negative at the early stage. I have heard of this happening a few times to people, only to be positive 24-48 hrs later.

[K6RBS]

Hills SD Killed our pug Abigail.

5 years old, history of bladder stones.
Started with a UTI, vet x-rayed her, put her on antibiotics and Hills SD (to dissolve the struvite stones). I gradually weaned her on to the SD (took a week). In the mean time the vet got the urinalysis tests back and the stones turned out to be calcium oxylate (?sp). I had 2 cans of SD left so we decided to leave her on it for a couple more days.
Next morning she is lethargic, vomiting and off her food.
She died a horrible death 5 days later due to pancreatitis followed by other organ failure caused by the fat content in the SD. I pleaded with Hills to put a warning on their cans and send a strong warning to the vets – they refused. Search the web – Abigail is not the first victim of Hills SD Dog food.

https://www.facebook.com/abigail.pugsly

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by K6RBS. Reason: Added URL to Abby's FB page
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by K6RBS.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi PrincessPiper –

XCaliber isn’t a balanced food but could safely be fed for a few meals a week if being fed in conjunction with a balanced diet. As long as the fat level doesn’t cause loose stools and she isn’t prone to pancreatitis it should bother her. I’d recommend checking out Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” if you’re interested in making homemade raw meals – it contains easy to make, AAFCO compliant recipes.

[jinxykb]

My pup, who recently recovered from abdominal surgery, is on HK Zeal. It’s good stuff, but like Marie said, lots more poop. It has worked out a little better adding steamed chicken–2/3 HK, 1/3 chicken. I have not tried Embark–as embark is higher in fat, and we need to be careful of pancreatitis.

[theBCnut]

Not that probiotics are bad, because they are good, but I think your dog could benefit from digestive enzymes, especially if this is a borderline or chronic pancreatitis problem. You may want to start Koda on a low fat diet and cut out any treats that aren’t low fat. And if it could be his back again, work at getting every single ounce of extra weight off of him. Just one caution, a lot of low fat diets reduce protein too, and that is bad, because they increase carbs a lot.

[theBCnut]

Ringworm can be an immune issue so feed to support the immune system. That means a high quality protein diet plus antioxidants plus probiotics. Since schnauzers can be prone to pancreatitis, you may be watching his fat levels, so it may be that it would easier to add some low fat meat to his diet than to switch foods, if he isn’t already on a high protein diet. Don’t add more that 20% of his food in meat.

[treizi]

So I’m coming here in hopes for some suggestions to perhaps adding in some supplements for my pup that isn’t doing well. Koda is a 9yr old Papillon that suddenly started showing signs of a very bloated, tight, painful tummy the other day. He also had runny yellow/orange stools. We went to the vet who cleared him of any signs of blockage, but he’s also outruled any extra gas, inflammation and isn’t quite suspecting pancreatitis because he’s not vomiting though blood tests weren’t done this time. He’s been prescribed a bland diet, add in some probiotics and wait for improvement. He’s slowly improving but I’m suspecting he might be having some digestive trouble so I’m considering making some additions to his diet. Now several months ago he went in to the vet (I was living elsewhere so it wasn’t my regular one) because he was once again in pain, but this time hunching over as if he was in a bunch of discomfort and quite lethargic. Needless to say, I’m a bit sick of the very large vet bills no answers and being sent home to boil some chicken and rice and wait a week or two.

He’s also had a slipped disc in his back which required surgery and that’s been suspected to be a possible cause of this pain currently, though no bulging or issues appeared on the xray confirming this. I’ll also mention that a few months ago, Koda would somewhat randomly get extremely loud belly “gurgles”. We’re talking loud enough to hear from another room, coming out of a 8lb dog. It’s only happened 2-3 times and doesn’t accompany any signs of lethargy or pain. He was completely normal at these times.

I’ve seen a lot of recommendations for Swanson’s Dr. Langer and Probiotic Miracle, as well as a mention of Mercola, though I’m not sure which people are using? I’d also like to add in some type of joint supplement, to assist with his previous back issues. I should mention that I’m currently feeding Lotus grain free duck (switched after the vet trip from several months ago – previously on Natural Balance Sweet Potato & fish..suspected originally that this was an issue because it was a new bag, now I’m not so sure). Also, when he’s up and being his normal self, he’s a very healthy and happy little dog that isn’t showing any signs of age.

Sorry for the novel – I’m somewhat hoping that maybe someone else has gone through a similar situation as well!

[jinxykb]

It sounds like you are looking for training treats and not a good meal for your pup.
As small dogs are prone to pancreatitis you need to pick something small and lower in fat. If you try to train your pup with his food, I don’t think it will go well, and you are sending mixed messages; Training treats should be special–that’s why they are called treats!

My 7 lb chihuahua will do tricks for frozen banana slices and frozen green beans. She will also do them for pieces of chicken and salmon, so, we mix it up to keep her healthy. If you want to keep it portable Honest Kitchen Peck’s are good. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/pecks. They have a new one called quickies which looks great, but we haven’t tried it yet. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/treats/quickies. Both are low calorie.

As for moist food, Patty is right. The stopped making ‘Gains Burgers’ for a reason.

Good luck!

[GaitedGurl]

Found this information on one of the sites provided above. Thought I would post for anyone else looking.

Dogs with Cushing’s disease should be fed a high-protein diet. Protein can help prevent muscle wasting. High quality proteins are also good for the skin and immune system. Also, since dogs with canine Cushings disease are prone to develop hyperlipidemia (high cholesterol and triglycerides) and pancreatitis, the amount of fat in the diet has to be moderately low.

Finally, dogs with this disease are susceptible to the formation of calcium oxalate bladder stones. Therefore, avoid giving them too much calcium and vitamin C. Also make sure that they have plenty of water intake to avoid stone formation. – See more at: http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/canine-cushings-disease.html#sthash.9TDdaP2J.dpuf

Also said these herbal drops may help also… http://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/products/cushex-cushings-disease-remedy-for-dogs.html?cj=3036157#ysmtac=cj&ysmchn=affiliate&ysmcpn=cj&ysmgrp=3036157

[pugmomsandy]

Traditional Chinese Medicine or other holistic modalities are not taught in normal vet school. It is learned afterwards if they’re interested! I use “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr karen Becker/Beth Taylor. These recipes are raw or cooked and it includes a vitamin recipe so each recipe exceeds AAFCO guidelines. Even one of my friends at Pugvillage uses these recipes for her pancreatitis pugs.

[sparkles1962]

I have a Jack Russell that I have had the same issues as the Mini-Pin. Had bladder issues years ago, and vet put her on urninary so. For years was throwing up on the food, not an issue for the vet. Then last year started with the pancreatitis. We have been working with a holistic vet, acupuncture, and herbal/homeopathic remedies. Amazing results. But, still working on it. I am now making her dog food. That really helps. I used Darwins raw food/chicken and duck. The only issue I had with that is the small bones, she was throwing those up and it was too costly.

My dog has a duality of chronic inflammatory pancreatitis that is creating damp phlegm in her kidneys and hence bladder stone issues. This is what the holistic vet is working on. It surprises me, that the regular vets don’t even know this. However, I am looking for a good nutritionist vet, for making the appropriate raw diet myself. There is someone online, that you can pay for this service (but I’m a little leary to give my personal info online)! Here is the information I found online, if you are interested. She had some good things to say, such as me feeding a natural diet that included sweet potato is not good for my dog because—if the stones she is forming are calcium oxalate, you should not be feeding sweet potatoes due to their content of oxalic acid. It is also vitally important for kidney health to have sufficient calcium in the diet to 1. meet the dog’s needs and 2. bind excess phosphorus, and in typical, supplemented diets this is usually severely deficient.
Looking online at dog diets with pancreatitis….is overwhelming!!!
— Sabine Contreras
Canine Care & Nutrition Consultant
Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines
BetterDogCare.com – DogFoodProject.com

[tracie]

I have a Schnauzer who’s prone to pancreatitis. He was on Pedigree Adult Complete for years and he would have frequent bouts of pancreatitis, constipation, stomach pain, vomiting and his poops were hard as rocks…and looked like them, too. I switched to Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken and all 3 of my dogs suffered from frequent soft stools and bad gas, although they absolutely loved the food. The frequent soft stools had me worried for my Schnauzer, so I switched (again) to Victor’s Beef and Rice formula. I transitioned each time in about 7 days time. Now that they are completely on Victor’s…they won’t eat. Should I go back to the BB? I’m a little nervous because of all the complaints I’ve heard about BB. Also, it’s hard to find locally…I really hate to keep switching them, but I’m not really sure what else to do. Any advice is appreciated!

[jpjhooper]

I don’t believe our dog has kidney issues. He had twice gotten a hold of chocolate (1 the kids Halloween candy that he got off a table, he jumped onto it like a cat. 2. a bag of assorted minis at Christmas, he learned how to open the pantry) and I am concerned that this may have damaged them not to the point of being ill but possibly to the point of injuring them and shortening their life. It was mostly milk choc and might have gotten 1 or 2 pieces of dark.

Short of doing blood work to make sure he is fine or number are ok (this happened 2 years ago) I was hoping to be proactive with the food that would not strain on them. I see that people adjust diets to cut down on pancreatitis so was wondering if there was a brand that seemed kidney friendly.

[snowy27]

I have a 13 year old lab that had blood in his stool. He had pancreatitis when he was 3 and some other digestive issues since then. My vet suggested Nutro Venison meal and whole brown rice. Unfortunately, although there was improvement, he still had blood in his stool. At Pet Planet they recommended Canadian Naturals Senior Turkey & Salmon. He has been on this food for a couple of years, no blood in his stool. Now my problem, the store will not be ordering that food anymore and no other store here carries it. I live in Ontario, Canada. I’m looking for a dog food that will do the same for my dog. I also have a 9 yr old golden I am feeding the same food.
This is the url for Canadian Naturals http://www.canadiannaturals.com/pages/productline.php
Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

[kennekra]

OK. After a day of IV fluid, his BUN is down to 74 and his Creatinine is down to 3.5. Vet thinks he actually had a bout of pancreatitis. Still wants to keep him on k/d for now and discontinue the phosphate binder. This is good news. I’ll keep an him on Azodyl and humor the vet through Friday (when we’ll take him back for more blood work.)

This will allow me to read through all these articles while we decide on a course of treatment.

[gmcbogger38]

Low fat food that I know is good for pancreatitis is Wellness Core Reduced Fat. It is grain free. It also contains 33% protein. They have a dry and canned version. Maybe it will help with the issue you are facing, too.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by gmcbogger38.

[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[theBCnut]

Usually acute pancreatitis is caused by a dog that has suddenly gotten something that is higher fat than they are used to. That’s why your vet thinks it’s from people food. So any scraps need to be very low fat. And she may need to be on a low fat food for life.

Is she overweight at all? Leaking urine can be a weight issue, but it can also be caused by changes in hormone levels. You may need bloodwork to solve this mystery, but in the meantime, if she has any extra weight, work on getting that off of her.

[MistiesMom]

http://www.nutro.com/natural-dog-food/natural-choice-dog-food/dry/lid-small-bites-lamb-and-rice.aspx

She is currently eating this food. She has had it now for just a couple of weeks.

[MistiesMom]

She lays down and loses liquid…..a very watery urine. Not much color or smell. She is spayed and has been since just after her first heat.

When she had the pancreatitis we were blown away! Vet told us from people food but she had been eating people since she was a pup. Not ALOT but yes the occasional scrap of left over meat or potato from dinner. So no more people food we were told **poor Mistie** she begs and begs.

So that was about 3 months ago. No table scraps since then……NOW when she lays down as she always does at my feet in the evening when she gets up there is a wet spot! sometimes just a little one others as if someone threw a water balloon. It is quite watery…no real color and not strong smell. What is going on with what was just a year ago a healthy dog???

Changed her diet thinking that would be a good thing after the Pancreatitis. Which BTW was a huge expense 🙁 special canned food for two weeks at 60 bucks a case and antibiotics and other medications….plus over night vet stay and x-rays and tests. Anyways….here we are just 3 months later and now the urine problem.

Right now she is eating Nurtro Natural. I need a recommendation or suggestion for what I should actually feed her 🙁 I am so sad thinking that the food I chose could be causing a problem yet again with her. (I believe that her DOG Food initially caused the Pancreatitis) NOT people food.

Help…..for choice of FOOD for her and also Suggestions on what you think could be the cause for the urinary problem. SHE is going to the Vet yet again today at 2:30 so send positive vibes please.
Thanks!
MistiesMom

[theBCnut]

I have no idea how much “one stick” is or if this is essentially a jerky or a ground up chicken product, but one stick split between six dogs, even if it is all fat and skin, still sounds like too small an amount to cause all of that. Of course, she may have four schnauzers, all prone to pancreatitis, for all I know. Chihuahuas certainly are tiny.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If he has heart problems adding fresh heart as a topper an a regular basis could be very beneficial. Heart (also gizzards) are actually considered to be a muscle meat (nutritionally speaking), not organ meat so you could top the kibble daily with no issues – true organ meats (i.e. liver, kidneys, lungs, etc., while healthy, should be fed sparingly because they’re so nutrient-dense). Heart is rich in CoQ10 and taurine which are both known to be beneficial to heart health. The concept of glandular therapy also involves supplementing with the gland (or organ) that is experiencing problems – i.e. a dog with heart failure should eat heart, a dog with pancreatitis should eat pancreas, a dog with renal failure should eat kidney, etc. Glandular supplements that are much more concentrated can be purchased but feeding the fresh organ/gland is beneficial as well.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I really like Urban Wolf – I’ve used it many times in the past and it’s one of my favorite pre-mixes. You shouldn’t need to stop giving coconut oil. Coconut oil is comprised of predominantly medium chain triglycerides which digest in a different way than most other fats – they don’t require pancreatic enzymes to digest so dogs with pancreatitis tend to tolerate MCTs pretty well. Don’t go overboard though – maybe just a drizzle on his food. I’d discuss amounts with your holistic veterinarian.

[NicoBoxer]

OH, and it wasn’t latent pancreatitis, it was asymptomatic pancreatits.

[Hound Dog Mom]

While high lipase levels don’t always indicate pancreatitis – when they’re that high (3X the normal or greater) it usually is an indication of pancreatitis. By “latent” I’m assuming that the vet is saying it’s underlying chronic pancreatitis that hasn’t flared up yet. Your vet didn’t give you any dietary recommendations – such as a certain level of fat to shoot for? I wouldn’t say you need to quit feeding raw but you should closely monitor his fat intake. The fat levels should be very low (I’d say around 10%) – which can be difficult to find in a raw diet. The OC Raw Fish & Produce formula is pretty low in fat at 12% and the Goat & Produce is only 9%. Another option would be to purchase some lean meat (heart, poultry gizzards, 96% lean ground beef or turkey, whitefish, etc.) and add it to a pre-mix to create a balanced raw meal that is also low in fat. There are some dehydrated foods with low fat levels as well if this is something you’d be open to – The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal (9%), Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance Chicken (9%), Sojo’s Turkey Complete (8%), Sojo’s Beef Complete (8%), Addiction’s Perfect Summer Brushtail (10%), Addiction’s Outback Kangaroo Feast (8%), Addiction’s Steakhouse Beef & Zucchini (8%), Addiction’s Fig’licious Venison Feast (10%). If you aren’t familiar with “dehdyrated foods” – they’re essentially a raw diet that has had the moisture removed, you add water let it stand for a few minutes and it rehydrates to a similar consistency of fresh raw. Dehydrated foods aren’t truly in a “raw” state after the dehydration process (the meats are generally heated to a high enough temperature to kill bacteria) but they are much less processed than kibble and probably the next best thing to raw. I would definitely keep him on digestive enzymes (make sure it contains lipase) and probiotics. I would also recommend supplementing with a pancreas glandular. You may also want to talk with your vet about whether or not your dog could benefit from some additional fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) and, if yes, in what amounts – when a dog isn’t metabolizing fat properly (such as with pancreatitis) they may not be absorbing adequate amounts of these vitamins. I know some other here have had dogs with pancreatitis so hopefully they’ll have more to contribute. Good luck.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[NectarMom]

For what amount? I have been mixing 1 tablespoon of the tripe in with their ground Rabbit and it actually is making them eat all their meals. I do not want them to get Pancreatitis again so should I stop giving them the Tripe?

[kateagray]

my senior dog has protein in her urine, protein/creatanine ratio came back at .4 and the and the test range said >.5 so the vet said it was ok, bloodwork looked fine but high triglycerides. (she had just eaten prior to the bloodwork so I’m not sure that matters) the lab result came back to suggest to also test for thyroid levels as hers was .7 and it should be between .8 and 3.5 but the vet did not suggest any testing on that. Hmm, I’m wondering why now. Vet says stay on low protein diet (currently 18%) took to a different Vet and he said that protein does not matter. Does it? She has gallstones and 2 occurrences of pancreatitis in 2006 and 2009. she has allergies too and I really just want to try to keep her comfortable the last few years of her life – don’t want to rock the boat and make her ill by switching dog food but she is on a prescription purina ha (hypoallergenic) diet and the reviews on here are horrible.

[pugmomsandy]

Not sure why she says more than 35% protein could possibly lead to pancreatitis?

[BlackAndTan]

Hi everyone,

I sent a question through the website about a week ago and got the same error message.
Today I got a very involved reply. Quite appreciated.
Here it is if anyone’s interested (on the topic of protein cycling)

Cheers

——— message below —-
I am glad your boy is doing well on Canine Caviar!
Protein rotation is beneficial, there really is not a wrong way to do
it. It does not have to be done daily, it can be monthly or quarterly.
I personally feed a different kibble protein source each time a new bag
is needed and rotate thru the cans the same way.
When mixing cans with the kibble, keep in mind our cans are pure protein
and should be used as a supplement only. A dogs system can typically
utilize up to 35% of their intake as protein. Anymore than that can
lead to health issues like pancreatitis. If you are feeding more than a
few spoons of Canine Caviar canned food at a time, you will need to
reduce the amount of kibble you are feeding by the same amount, 1/2 cup
can would mean 1/2 cup less kibble. If you want him to reduce his
weight a bit, you can also supplement with our Synergy mix. It is a
dehydrated vegetable mix that will add more volume to his meal without
the added protein and calories.
Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.
Thank you,
Julie

Julie Campbell
Canine Caviar Pet Foods, Inc
4131 Tigris Way
Riverside, Ca 92503
Phone 714-223-1800
Fax 714-223-1801
email julie@caninecaviar.com
http://www.caninecaviar.com

[kateagray]

Hi!

I’ve been posting in different threads with questions on different dog foods/supplements and then just realized…HELLO…there are forums on this website as well, thanks to Inkedmarie who suggested I check out a sub forum with different dog foods that were grain free with no potatoes. Thanks! I’ve decided to send my question out forum wise instead of post wise so I can keep better track of the advice that I am receiving.

Here is my dilemma:

In 2006 I took Nikki, my 13 year old Miniature Schnzauzer in for allergy testing – she is allergic to pretty much everything environmental is what I found out. She was on a duck and potato formula then. She had a couple of bouts of pancreatitis due to some pain medication she was prescribed for something else and then because someone in my family was naughty an fed her some sausage. My vet put her on a prescription diet of Purina HA. I believe that my vet is being super cautious as schnauzers are prone to bladder stones, pancreatitis/hyperlipidemia, and hypothyroidism. Nikki seems to do ok on this dog food, which I get but every time I ask her for an alternative she says absolutely not this is the only dog food she can tolerate. I don’t like that answer. There has to be alternatives.

I called them back recently and got a different vet in her practice – my regular vet is out for a time due to sick family member, and he couldn’t figure out why Nikki was on this dog food. He thinks it’s because of the food allergies. I ask him what food allergies and he can’t answer me. I thought she was on this food due to a sensitive stomach. So, I’m confused. I was also told to give her rice cakes as treats and tofu to give her any medications so that is all she has been getting. She can’t eat anything other than that is what she tells me and she pushes low protein which I’ve been reading may not be the answer. She’s been on this prescription diet for a few years and everything I’m reading now says that it might not be good to have a dog on that diet for so long. She’s been on and off antibiotics, anti bacterial pills, temaril p for years to help with her allergies and yeast infections. Nothing really seems to help and I’m worried I’ve just completely ruined her system with years of this. Purina HA has a low protein (18%) and fat content (8%) with hydrolyzed protein of soy. I honestly feel I can do better by her with a different dog food.

About a year ago Nikki was diagnosed with Melanoma. A tumor on the pad of her paw that was removed (but not a clean removal). She has been taking the Melanoma Vaccine every 6 months. The cancer does not look to have come back so far. (knock on wood) She also has gallstones that don’t seem to bother her but do show up in x-rays. She has a heart murmur and Also, on her last urinalysis I was told there was protein in her urine. We did a protein/creatinene ratio and it came back ok, so I’m told I don’t need to worry about that right now.

I’ve been researching dog food and supplements now for about 2 weeks and am now more confused than before. I purchased a probiotic from Nusentia (waiting to get it in the mail) that supposedly should help with her yeast issues and possibly allergies.

Do I stay with her current food and just give supplements or do I completely switch foods over (slowly)?

She’s 13 years old with a lot of health issues – I don’t want to rock the boat, but I also want to do my due diligence in finding her something to make her healthy and happy for the remainder of her life.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. I may have left some things out and if so, I’d be happy to clarify.

Kate

[NectarMom]

Yes HDM they got Salmonella from Raw and Pancreatitis. My shihtzu was hospitalized and had to be on IV fluids for 2 days. My vet handed me a stack of paperwork talking about the risk involved in feeding Raw. I know most vets are unless holistic vet are against feeding Raw and because they did not take courses in canine nutrition so they do not understand the Raw thing and simply do not agree with it. It scared me to death and I thought I was going to loose her because of something I chose to feed her. Now I am super careful what I choose to feed and it cannot be very high fat for sure. Dogs can also get Salmonella bacteria from kibble so I do take this all with a grain of salt. I am honestly more Leary of kibble these days than Raw.

[NectarMom]

I meant no other issues were found besides Pancreatitis and Salmonella bacteria through all the blood work and test she went through, my IPad wouldn’t let me edit the post. Thanks for any advice on a food you think she might can handle.

[NectarMom]

I do know what to make of it other than my Shihtzu is now allergic to turkey protein. This has been an n going problem with her and the symptoms are she is constantly turning around looking at her rear end as if something is bothering her. She has thrown up once in the last couple of days and now I started cooking ground white turkey and adding in See spot live longer dinner mixes and she ate some at first and now she totally is refusing any and all food. We are on Turkey and egg kibble and have been for a while. She is my one who was hospitalized a few months back for Pancreatitis and what my vet thinks was Salmonella Bacteria. $1300 later and blood work and a lot of test sent off coming back nothing. Now shes acting the same way once again. It did get worse when I fed her the all white ground turkey so I am seriously thinking she has issues with turkey.

What is a protein that likely dogs are not going to have an allergic reaction to? I am talking intestinal allergic reaction. I have tried Rabbit and she does not like it and I have tried Chicken and same reaction as turkey so I am at a loss on what to feed since beef seems to be high on the list of allergic reactions. I need limited ingredient foods. This is really getting frustrating. Years ago I never had these issues with any dogs. Seriously what in the hell are they putting in foods these days?

[Hound Dog Mom]

NectarMom –

Your dogs got bacteria from raw? I remembered reading about the pancreatitis but I don’t recall reading about that. That’s too bad. What type of bacteria did they get infected with?

[NectarMom]

It can depend on the dog or dogs IMO. Two of my dogs got Pancreatitis and bad bacteria from Raw but two did fine. There are A LOT of factors to take into consideration when starting to feed a Raw diet. You have to learn what your dogs can handle fat wise and Protein wise. I have small dogs, 3 Chihuahuas and a Shihtzu. I believe in feeding an all Raw diet and I saw a huge improvement in my dogs teeth, breath and coats and over all activeness but we for sure paid the price with a $1300 vet bill with one of ours. Do lots of home work before you start it. I only feed mine a lower fat Raw such as Rabbit and Turkey but we have been off of Raw now and just on kibble for a couple of weeks now but we are about to start up the low fat Raw once again.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I personally don’t feel HPP is as good as non-HPP raw but it’s definitely better than kibble. Any low fat HPP raw would be worth a try if your brother is unwilling to feed non-HPP raw. Primal does have several varieties that are low in fat – I agree that S&C is probably too high in fat for a dog recovering from pancreatitis. The Honest Kitchen also has a formula called “Zeal” which is low in fat and would make a good “raw alternative” – it’s a dehydrated, human-grade food food and when you add water it re-hydrates to a stew-like consistency.

[momtopoms]

I have convinced my brother to change his dogs diet and I am looking for suggestions.
He has a 5 yo Eskie that has been on RC his whole life. He started having sezuires and is on meds for that and he has also had one bout of pancreatitis. They don’t have time to do homemade and have a one year old daughter. I do homemade and commercial raw with mine but I have the time and have no children. I know there is some controversies about HPP but would that be best for his situation? I was going to send him some Primal to try. I figured Stella and Chewys would be too high in fat for him due to the pancreatitis. Thanks.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hello again, I have been on the site many times since my last post and was hoping to get some more help again. Since my last post I took Dawson off Big Country Raw, I wasnt impressed with there customer service, most of the time my questions were brushed off and when I would place my order they seemed annoyed. Plus I found some things in the dinners I was not impressed with. So shortly after Dawson had a “sickness” episode (he was no longer on BCR) he vomited like 20 times before noon, and it was just bile. He was extremely lethargic and wouldnt eat or drink anything, but his bloodwork was relatively normal and in 2 days he was starting to be back to himself. He started drinking water on the 3rd day then the next day his appetite was back.Im fairly certain it was the freshpet he was eating that made him sick. After that episode I was afraid to start him back on raw, so I ordered in some ziwipeak air dried which he absolutely LOVES! Then once he was feeling better, i fed him ziwipeak in them am and then canned in the pm, I wanted to give him a meal with moisture in it like his raw meals. I switched his canned out for Grandma Lucy’s Artisan which he likes, and I like some things about it but its not ideal.
he has been doing well on that, but there is an Irish Wolfhound breeder at school who feeds her (very large,lol) gang raw. When we went to visit her and her wolfhound she had at school (who Dawson loved, I guess he likes the Big Girls, lol) she gave Dawson a tripe and veggie mixture to take home and try. Well He loves that and his tummy has seemed to be ok on it, which is what I had been worried about, so I was thinking about starting him back on raw, but im still nervous. I was also thinking of continuing his ziwipeak in the am, and trying the orijen freeze dried for his pm meal, but I was wondering if that would be too much fat for him to handle? He walks 2x a day, but I worry about inducing pancreatitis in him. Plus I like that the meats are free-range, antibiotic, hormone free. For raw the best I could probably do for a while would be grocery store as I cant seem to find organic free-range around here. At least until I can find a good source of meat… I really want free-range, antibiotic free meats for his tiny body, unless its ok for him to have typical “store bought” meats? If you think raw is still the best option I would like to prepare it myself this time around.
Sorry for the extremely long post, you guys are such a wealth of knowledge and the vets at school are very pro-Hills, Iams types. I really do like ziwipeak and so does Dawson, but I also want to feed him a meal with moisture in it as I think thats important too. Any input would be greatly appreciated! If you think is current diet is really decent, or if the ziwipeak, orijen freeze dried would be excellent for him, or if raw still would be the best (perhaps for his pm meal) even with store bought meats. And if you think of anything else that might help him after hissickness`supplements, tips etc. Thanks in advance, and hope you are all enjoying the long weekend!

[pugmomsandy]

There are alot of variables. For instance – “plenty of table food”. Was it fatty or more fatty than what she is used to eating? Could have been a mild case of inflamed pancreas. I say mild because full blown pancreatitis will need urgent medical intervention. But left untreated, even a mild case can take weeks to recover from.

Then the new bag of food. While there are reports of dogs becoming sick on Blue there are plenty that are not and are doing just fine.

If it were me, to be safe I would change foods and also get some blood work done to be sure there is no pancreas problems going on. Give some bland, low fat food and some probiotics till you get her checked out.

[NectarMom]

I had that happen too and I think. I over reacted too quickly and rushed mine to the vet. A good friend of mine has been feeding her Danes Raw for 12yrs and she said every now and then one of her Danes will throw up and she says it is common and just a case of mild Pancreatitis. It is scary though and freaks you out. I am one of those that is terrified of my dogs choking on raw bones. I am so stupid paranoid that I had ordered them raw rabbit chunks with bone and I cut the meat off away from the bone and threw the bone away. I am so weird.