[Taylor D]

I have been an avid follower to this forum and website and decided to finally register to participate, not just because I have a question, although I do 🙂

I own three female Golden Retrievers. Misty is 10, Daisi is 6, and Lena is 7 months.

After much research and reading Hound Dog Mom’s list of Large Breed Dog Foods (I even printed it out) I decided to feed Lena Wellness CORE Puppy for her first year.
She made the switch great (she was eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness at breeders) and is doing great on it. Her coat is sooo soft.
The thing I have noticed is if I give her too much of that kibble, she will get soft poop.
I know this is a high protein/ high fat food and I should be giving her less than what the bag says.
She is a good weight now, nice and lean, no ribs or hips showing, although I can feel her ribs. But she is small for her age!
She weighs 30 pounds and she is 7 months!
She is only gaining about 5-10 pounds a month.
I am feeding her 2 and a half cups of the puppy food a day, divided among three meals, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
She does fine on that amount, poop is fine. When I try to increase the amount, she gets soft poop.
I do pour some fresh raw goat milk in with her food each meal when I am increasing her food, and sometimes it keeps the soft poop away but not all the time.
I know why she gets the soft poop, and I know she is of good weight for her size, no ribs are showing.
But she is small for her age and breed.
Is it possible she is not getting the calcium she needs, because of the decreased amount I am feeding her, because of the protein rich food?
Wouldn’t the calcium levels listed for the food be for an average serving size?
Wouldn’t it be okay to feed her a food slightly lower in protein maybe around 30-32%, instead of the 36% in Wellness Core Puppy, but with slightly higher levels of calcium?

Their is a Slow Growth Method of feeding Goldens or large breeds that some breeders recommend following. Even with the Slow Growth Method, Lena should weigh at least 65 pounds for her age.

I also know high protein is not a problem for large breeds.

I was just wondering if I could switch her to a good 4.5-5 star grain free food with 30-32% protein with higher levels of calcium. Or even a 35%+ protein food with higher levels of calcium, since I would still be feeding her less than the amount listed on bag.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Justin K –

None of Acana’s formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies. Orijen’s Large Breed puppy formula was reformulated recently and the the new formulation is only slightly above the recommended calcium guidelines (the old formula was much too high in calcium). In my opinion, with an all meat topper as 20% or less of the meal Orijen’s Large Breed Puppy formula would probably be acceptable.

[aquariangt]

I’m not a large/giant breed person (done a bit of research as my sister has a dane mix) but as far as fromm’s, her list has 4 star on there too, and while Gold is ok, 4 star has higher protein. If I used gold I would certainly add extra protein in the diet

[Mom2Cavs]

My dogs have no staining now. I have 3 Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and the girls had been pretty good for awhile, but not perfect. Rupert came to me with some large eye stains and paw staining. I have recently been feeding Wellness Small Breed kibbles (a variety of Sm. Brd. Senior, Sm. Brd. Simple Salmon and Sm. Brd. Whitefish). I got Rupert going on 3 months ago and started this kibble 2 months ago. I also top with Wellness canned and a very few others, Simply Nourish and Weruva but mostly Wellness. I also am using Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and a supplement called Firm Up, which is dried pumpkin and apple pectin. The only treats they get are Wellness Yogurt biscuits at night before bedtime. I use their kibble the rest of the time. At the Hospital during Therapy Dog visits Laverne and Hazel get banana chips and Zuke’s minis (which I plan on replacing after the bag is empty). ALL staining is gone from everyone. It use to be when I groomed/brushed them and wiped their eyes Hazel would be great, Laverne would have one eye that still came away with a little brownish stain and Rupert would be getting a little better but not totally clear. Now, after 2 months of nothing but feeding this way, all staining is gone from all dogs. Even Rupert has none on his paws or otherwise. I’m thrilled! I’ve always loved Wellness products but the kibble size was too big for my Cavs. When they came out with these new formulas for Small Breeds I immediately bought them and I’m so happy…..now I just hope they continue to come out with more Small Breed flavors.

One note I would like to make, though, is that I think that getting the dogs’ guts back in peak shape is what helped the staining the most and I feel that the Digest All Plus and Firm Up were instrumental in doing that. Laverne had prior anal gland problems that are not happening now either, and Rupert had a ruptured anal gland right after coming to us which has healed great and I’ve seen no signs of returning (I keep praying about it, lol!).

[Jackie B]

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

Make sure and check out the large and giant breed puppy food discussion. You can add a little canned plain pumpkin to his food also, that should help with his stool (as long as he doesn’t have worms or giardia, etc).

[Tina]

I want to find a food for at least three of my four dogs. If I can find a good food for all that would be great. I have two large breed and two medium breed. One large breed is a senior and one medium is also a senior. I want a brand that offers many different types of protein sources. My one large breed adult gets bored with the flavor of protein. I’m looking for both dry and wet.

[Leslie P]

I have a 9 year old female GSD, adopted 2 months ago, and a 5 year old male GSD I’ve had since he was a puppy. The male is overweight and not losing anymore so we’re off to the vet today; he’s been on 2 cups of grain free Authority Chicken & Potato Large Breed. We were on Taste of the Wild but it is expensive. Since we switched to grain free, he is scratching less and his coat is softer; so I like grain free for that. My problem is the weight isn’t coming off even though I dropped him from 4 cups to 2. We walk for 45 minutes a day and play ball in the backyard.

My female is ideal weight!
Any ideas?

[aquariangt]

4 Dogs for 3 people isn’t too much! I have had 3 for myself for the last year (just 2 now, my sister returned from overseas and her dog is now back with her) so that’s just fine

I don’t recommend most senior foods, they are fairly low in protein. I would find an all life stages that works for all of them and see what you can do from there. Switching brands/protein types may help you keep them eating. Large breed adult food, to my knowledge though I have no giants, is unnecessary, and he should be able to be on the same thing as the rest.

Maybe try some of the fromms? The 4 star have a lot of variation and so its very easy to switch what they’re eating from bag to bag. There is grain free and grain inclusive as well

[Corey K]

Thank you for all of the feedback. Think I still need help so will give more specifics in hopes that there might be some easy answers but I fear not cause things at my house are far too crazy! I live with my husband and adult daughter and between us we have 4 dogs. 3 of them have food issues that cause me questions:

Missy – 12 year old bearded collie – Would eat nothing but frozen Bil Jac her entire life until she got acid reflux issues 6 wks ago and changing her food was extremely tough. She is now eating (begrudgingly) one cup of natures’ recipe easy to digest chicken dry food, one half cup of rice and one half cup of either boiled ground chicken or boiled ground beef per day.

Max – 11 year old bearded collie – no health issues – will eat ANYTHING including what he finds in the back yard when he beats me to it. He is currently, happily eating two cups per day of the natures’ recipe easy to digest chicken dry food.

Frankie – 3 year old dane mix – he is currently eating IAMS large breed proactive years 1-5. Many days he wants nothing to do with it. Also concerned about what I am reading about IAMS testing on animals, but the plus is they do sell it in 50 lb bags at my Costco. I tried mixing in canned with the dry and he wants nothing to do with the wet food. He is having some teeth issues, with mild gingivitis and we are working on that so not sure if that is factoring in.

Last but not least my daughter’s new puppy Rerun – he is 4 mos old. Rerun is half beagle and half siberian husky – now 30 lbs – vet estimates will be around 60. She is currently feeding him Kirkland signature puppy. He does not seem to like it. He eats very little of it and wants no more.

I feel like 60% of my life right now revolves around feeding dogs and it is becoming more difficult to manage than I can handle. Of course with the 4 of them in the house, feeding is an event, not just an all day graze – you eat what you are given or you dont get any – but now that everyone but Max has decided to become picky – it now involves each of us coralled to a designated space with our charge for the better part of an hour to hour and a half while we coax whichever dog we have to eat so that we can go on with life.

I know that most might want to provide the advice that we just have too many dogs, and I’ve talked way long enough without going into why we have this many dogs at this time in our lives lol! I think I’ve read enough to have learned that the better the quality of food the less tasty. Do I need to find a middle of the road senior food that is palliative enough for my older dogs to eat and wont bother their stomachs? (is there such a thing?) If I can coax my dane to eat the IAMS for awhile longer, what happens when he gets to 6 years old – the bag says 1-5 and he’s almost 4 and weighs 100 lbs. What about this puppy – do we start trying other puppy foods to find one he likes? We tried adding canned (have only found adult canned where I shop) and he then eats the canned and spits out the dry. Very sorry for such a long post – and look forward to any suggestions!!

[crazy4cats]

I did worry about it at first, but not as much anymore. I cooked the eggs at first, both scrambled and boiled. Then I started just very lightly cooking. Now, I separate them and stick the whites in the microwave for about 30 seconds first and give the yolk to them raw. So far so good! I give them each 2 eggs twice a week. They are both about 80 pounds. In addition, they each get a tin of sardines once a week. We call it “Sardine Sunday” at our house.
I personally wouldn’t worry about finding a food that is labeled for giant breed dogs. Most of that is marketing in my opinion. I would be more concerned about buying from a reputable manufacturer. I find that large breed foods are usually lower in protein. That is why is I don’t usually feed mine the large breed foods. Also, just read the label and use common sense. It seems as though you have a lot of that! The ingredients and the guaranteed analysis are the most important to me.
What is funny to me, is that most of what I read, says it is best to feed variety, no matter what size the dog is. But, you really need to do what you think is best. Good luck to you!

[spaniel39]

Mimi, thanks
My Sophie is so sweet too; I knew the importance of socialization given the protectiveness
factor as an adult and I think I went too far.
If she sees anyone walking towards her or across the street, she will sit and “smile”
and wait to greet them. Impossible to take her/walk her anywhere lol
but I don’t mind, She is just starting to form her “cords”
I didn’t read your post carefully. Sorry, didn’t realize you had been on raw.
I found it much too expensive and kibble has come a long way (Acana, Orijen, etc)
and you can always supplement it with a tablespoon of a good canned lamb/duck/etc.
or in Sophie’s case last night, a big extra lean, Hamburger!
I forgot to mention Evangers!
They’ve done research for decades on large breeds
They have a meat lovers with Rabbit, not real expensive, my dogs loved!

[spaniel39]

mimi and William
see my post above yours.
NOW also has an adult formula
I learned the hard way (diarrhea, loose stools) that many puppies/dogs have a chicken
allergy and have stopped feeding it (the kibble, that is) to my dogs.
I have a Huge breed (Komondor) and 2 Springer Spaniels right now.
Lamb is easily digestible and my Komondor is on Nutrisource large Breed LAMB
I think it’s about $49 for a 30 pound bag
Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear is good and low calcium levels for the large breed puppies
although it is expensive.
It’s really trial and error until you find something that works
Oh, and also, I only use grain free, although there are some good foods with low
glycemic grains such as oats, millet, alfalfa.
Also, for diarrhea, I’ve used canned (unspiced) pumpin but find that a baked
sweet potato (with skin) is better

[tracy b]

hello every one I am a new member here and love that there is a discussion on large/giant breed food. I have 2 great dane males who are little mates (siblings) . they are 1 and 1/2 years old now. we have always fed them Royal Canine giant breed stages right now they are on the giant junior and will soon be transitioning over to adult food. I just had them to the vet yesterday to get their rabies shots and heath exam in preparation for neutering. my vet also owns a great dane so I feel lucky that my vet knows specifically about the breed and their potential heath problems. I always thought I had made good choices in their food and yesterdays appointment had them scoring perfectly on coat, growth, teeth, heart, etc. I feel a bit dismayed about some of the negative reports on the brand of food I have chosen its score of 2.5 stars and the comments on the ingredients leave me wondering if I have made a poor choice. we did try to switch twice once at 4 months and again at 8 months to other brands (blue and arcana) each time we tried they were not happy seemed to not like the flavor had bad gas and diarrhea although not too bad with the blue brand and I did switch very slow mixing the existing brand with the new gradually. it cost me $86.00 every 6 days to feed the boys a bag of dry food plus $9.00 in toppers. I just need to know I have made the right decision
thank you

• This topic was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by tracy b.

[ab1028]

I am not familiar with Carna4 Gold, so I just looked it up on here. To me, it looks to be a very good food. A couple of other foods I would recommend if you are interested in rotating foods, is Now! Fresh small breed and Acana. Now! has a nice small kibble size, and I definitely trust the company. Acana’s kibble size ranges. Some of the ones in the original line can be small or large and the one’s in the regional line tend to be large (about the size of a nickel). I have a poodle myself and he doesn’t have a problem with the large kibble size, but all dogs are different!

[Tina]

Anyone own a Golden Retriever? If so what do you feed yours? My Golden Retriever Angel is 8 years old and has these problems;
*dry skin
*itchy skin
*red skin
*weak hip and joints (she is on cohesion for this)
*sometimes over weight
*eats very fast
She is on Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior along with other small bags of stuff mixed in. She has only had chicken her entire life and as a younger puppy/adult was on;
*Eukanuba Puppy
*Purina Pro Plan Puppy
*Purina One Adult
*Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult
*Royal Canine Golden Retriever
*Blue Buffalo Large Breed Senior
*Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior
None of these I was happy with and none of them did the trick except for Royal Canine (kinda). What can you suggest? I’m open to ANY suggestions, including all life stages dog food. My only thing is that I need it to be inexpensive, not cheap but not like $80 for a 24lb bag.

[Tina]

Anyone own a Golden Retriever? If so what do you feed yours? My Golden Retriever Angel is 8 years old and has these problems;
*dry skin
*itchy skin
*red skin
*weak hip and joints (she is on cohesion for this)
*sometimes over weight
*eats very fast
She is on Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior along with other small bags of stuff mixed in. She has only had chicken her entire life and as a younger puppy/adult was on;
*Eukanuba Puppy
*Purina Pro Plan Puppy
*Purina One Adult
*Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult
*Royal Canine Golden Retriever
*Blue Buffalo Large Breed Senior
*Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior
None of these I was happy with and none of them did the trick except for Royal Canine (kinda). What can you suggest? I’m open to ANY suggestions, including all life stages dog food. My only thing is that I need it to be inexpensive, not cheap but not like $80 for a 24lb bag.

[tracy b]

hello every one I am a new member here and love that there is a discussion on large/giant breed food. I have 2 great dane males who are little mate brothers. they are 1 and 1/2 years old now. we have always fed them Royal Canine giant breed stages right now they are on the giant junior and will soon be transitioning over to adult food. I just had them to the vet yesterday to get their rabies shots and heath exam in preparation for neutering. my vet also owns a great dane so I feel lucky that my vet knows specifically about the breed and their potential heath problems. I always thought I had made good choices in their food and yesterdays appointment had them scoring perfectly on coat, growth, teeth, heart, etc. I feel a bit dismayed about some of the negative reports on the brand of food I have chosen its score of 2.5 stars and the comments on the ingredients leave me wondering if I have made a poor choice. we did try to switch twice once at 4 months and again at 8 months to other brands (blue and arcana) each time we tried they were not happy seemed to not like the flavor had bad gas and diarrhea although not too bad with the blue brand and I did switch very slow mixing the existing brand with the new gradually. it cost me $86.00 every 6 days to feed the boys a bag of dry food plus $9.00 in toppers. I just need to know I have made the right decision
thank you

[Tina]

Nutritional Adequacy Statement or “AAFCO Statement”

AAFCO is an organization that sets the nutritional standards for pet foods sold in the United States.
This legally required statement verifies the testing method used to determine nutritional adequacy.
The statement indicates whether the food provides complete and balanced nutrition for a specific lifestage of your dog (growth, adult, pregnant/nursing), or if the product is nutritionally adequate for all lifestages.
Beware if the package states the food supports “all lifestages.” The product likely contains excessive levels of some nutrients necessary for the most demanding lifestage, which is growth. For example, it might contain higher levels of protein and calcium for puppies, but those levels are inappropriate for an adult or senior dog.

The Best Life for Man’s Best Friend
Adult dog with puppy

Whether you have a new puppy or the dog you’ve loved for years, caring for your dog properly ensures many happy years together. As you care for your dog, even the little things – perfectly selected food, exercise and love – can make a big difference. We want to be a part of your dog’s happy, healthy life, so we’re here to share information on proper nutrition, fitness and special needs.

Knowing the age of your dog is important in choosing their nutrition. If you have a dog and aren’t sure of his exact age, your veterinarian can help estimate that for you.

Adult dogs include dogs of the following ages:

1 to 7 years old for small and medium breeds
1 to 5 years old for large breeds and
1 to 4 years old for giant breeds
As you care for your dog, it’s important to remember that his needs change as he grows. Caring for your dog according to his lifestage means you’re giving him the best care.

[RescueDaneMom]

Case-

I have a Great Dane. I agree that it depends on the size of the dog. The most important thing is to NOT feed a food that is only approved for Adult Maintenance by AAFCO to your puppy. I would feed an “All Life Stages” or puppy food (they truly are the same thing) until at least 1 year. If you have a large breed, then 2 years. If you have a giant breed (like a Dane), then 3 years. I also agree with aquariangt about vets. My vet and I butt heads over what I feed my dog. I choose to feed The Honest Kitchen and raw. My vet says that feeding Purina or Iams is just as good and all I’m doing is wasting my money on expensive dog food. I told him that we’ll have to agree to disagree and we don’t speak on the subject anymore.

I hope this is helpful. Just my two cents 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

It depends on the size of the dog. For large/giant breeds, picking a food with the proper amount of calcium and phosphorus and proper calcium:phosporus ratio is more important than picking a food for “growth” or “all life stages” during the first year to 2 years. Large/giant breed pups need controlled amounts, where as toy/small or medium does not require the controlled amounts. You can be feeding too much calcium and phosphorus even though a food is rated for “growth” or “all life stages” during the large/giant breed puppy phase. So I would feed a large/giant breed pup a food with proper Ca/Phos for a year or two.

I deal with toy dogs so I would hypothetically switch as young as 8 months to “adult” food, but personally, I feed “all life stage” or “growth/puppy” food all the time to my toy dogs, even to seniors.

It is somewhat confusing and not as black and white as just “puppy” or “adult” food. If you have a large/giant breed pup, there is a forum topic for that:

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

and there is a link to a document created by Hounddogmom with foods appropriate for large/giant breed pups in there. I think around page 15 and an updated list around pages 34-35. I haven’t looked in that topic for a while since I have only toy dogs!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[aquariangt]

Correct. Marketing is marketing is marketing. Check that label and that will tell you if it’s appropriate for your puppy.

Case-it kind of depends on the breed, I have a sheltie, a miniature schnauzer, and a westie. They are done growing earlier than larger type breeds. I don’t know the science behind the two levels of food, other than ALS/Puppy foods tend to be higher in protein, but I’m not sure exactly when it’s “safe” to switch-but I’ve given 9-10 month olds “maintenance” food before

[Tina]

It depends on the size dog usuMedium-large dog breeds (Collies, Labrador Retrievers, Boxers) are fully grown by about 18 months and at their full weight by about 2 years of age. Giant dog breeds (Great Danes, Mastiffs) may take up to three years to reach their full weight, though they should be fully grown into their paws by about 18 months.

I personally changed over all of my puppies at age one but if I had known this information back then I would’ve waited until age 2.

[spaniel39]

I feed my baby (sophie the Komondor) 130pound
14 months old
Nutrisource large breed lamb
about 1.63 pound
as you get a 30 pound bag
I went through so many and this is perfect
Gets 5 stars dog advisor also
Lamb meal, peas, pea starch, pea flour, salmon meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potatoes, tomato pomace, natural turkey and chicken flavor, sunflower oil, potassium chloride, dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, selenium yeast), salt, choline chloride, taurine, vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, tryptophan, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, yucca schidigera extract, calcium iodate, rosemary extract, yeast culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtillis fermentation product.

[spaniel39]

Jason B
I now have a 1 year 2 month old 130 pound Komondor
I started her off on Canine Caviar Puppy Dinner (lamb)
but was pretty expensive
I had great luck with Petcurean NOW large breed puppy
Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)
But it’s not inexpensive at about $59 for a large bag.
NOW FRESH™ Large Breed Puppy food recipe is made with 100% FRESH turkey, salmon, duck & 100% fresh Omega 3 & 6 oils from coconuts and canola. NOW FRESH™ also features zero grains, gluten, wheat, beef, corn or soy. Zero rendered meats, by-products or artificial preservatives.

This recipe also features:

Calcium and phosphorus to promote your puppy’s growth
New Zealand green mussels to support hip and joint health
Added L-Carnitine to support heart health/fat burning
Pre + Probiotics to support digestion
Added Taurine to support vision and heart function

[SaintsDontCarryBrandy]

Our family has had Saint Bernards since before I was born, but the diet choices weren’t either as varied or as useful as they are now. “What’s cheap?” reigned over “What’s the best diet?” Now I have a Saint Bernard puppy (9 weeks) coming into our household who’s been raised on Sportmix Wholesome. It averages 3.5 stars, but given its first few ingredients are major flags, I’m not willing to “save a few bucks” in exchange for a less healthy and shorter-lived pup!
I can’t access HDM’s Large Breed Dog Food list on Google (argh); am considering Victor Grain Free, but am open to any dog food good for giant-breed dogs (my pup’s dad is 220 and a strapping boy, so he isn’t likely to be small…) Saints develop at a rapid pace, so their dietary needs are similar to other giants (Newfies, Mastiffs, Danes, Pyrenees, etc.)

Am reading everything I can get my hands on. I’m willing to get better quality dog food; would appreciate any advice, as well as thoughts on feeding raw vs. great-quality package food. Thanks!

[crazy4cats]

It is under diet and health issues. The first few pages have a lot of good links to check out. There is also a google docs spread sheet that has recommended kibble for large breed pups. It has both with and without grains sections. Good luck! Who knew it would be so difficult to feed out furry friends!

[Dawn S]

crazy4cats:

Thank you for the information about the large breed thread. I will have to look for it. I just don’t know which way to go. So much info and so little time.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nat R –

Just so you know, no studies exist demonstrating that protein has negative effects on giant breed puppies or adults – anything you read about this is myth and nothing more. There is, however, a lot of research proving the protein is not harmful.

Feeding Large Breed Puppies by Susan Winn DVM (Featured in IVC Journal)

“A common misconception found in many internet articles is the claim that dietary protein should be controlled in large breed puppies to prevent skeletal abnormalities. This theory was disproved some years ago (Nap, 1991). Most commercial puppy foods contain more protein than is thought necessary, but studies have shown that protein contents of 23% to 31% (dry matter) do not have a deleterious effect on growth.”

“Decades ago, we considered some adult diets appropriate for puppies. However, a calorie-calcium mismatch is probably common. Adult maintenance foods are often less calorically dense than puppy foods. Additionally, these diets may have calcium and phosphorus levels that are higher in relation to energy density than a large breed puppy diet. If a rapidly growing puppy has to eat more food to obtain enough calories for growth, a calcium overdose is possible.”

“Most nutritionists recommend that large, fast growing puppies eat diets containing AT LEAST 30% protein and 9% fat (dry matter basis).”

The Effect of Breed Size on Nutritional Considerations for Growing Puppies

“Excessive intake of dietary protein has been suggested as a contributing factor to skeletal developmental problems, such as osteochondrosis, in large breed dogs. This hypothesis was tested by feeding Great Dane puppies either 15%, 23% or 32% dietary protein (13%, 21% or 29% of energy). While the low protein diet reduced growth, no detrimental effects from the higher protein diets were observed.”

This is a FANTASTIC article (one of my favorites) on large breed nutrition written by Susan Lauten PhD – I would HIGHLY recommend reading it in its entirety, however here are some of the highlights:

Nutritional Risks to Large-Breed Dogs: From Weaning to the Geriatric Years

“Currently, no evidence exists to suggest that high-protein intake contributes to the development of orthopedic disease in growing large-breed puppies. Previous studies suggesting a risk for high protein and DOD were confounded by higher energy intake in high-protein foods. In general, large-breed puppy diets are formulated to contain approximately 30% protein (DMB) similar to other puppy foods.”

“…feeding adult foods to large-breed puppies before 1 year of age is not recommended because the calcium-to-energy ratio is generally lower in adult foods compared with large-breed puppy food. Feeding an adult food can actually result in greater intake of calcium than feeding puppy foods. Because the puppy must consume a larger portion of adult food to meet energy needs for growth, total calcium intake may actually be higher than with a properly formulated large-breed puppy formula.”

Here is the link to a study done on Great Dane pups that was featured in the Journal of Nutrition. The study concluded: “the differences in protein intake per se did not affect the occurrence of disturbed skeletal development in young Great Danes.”

Do You Know What to Feed Your Large Breed Dog? By Karen Becker DVM

“Studies have repeatedly concluded dietary protein levels have no effect on the development of skeletal problems in large and giant breed dogs. But still today, many breeders of large dogs, owners and even some veterinarians will tell you protein is the problem, even though there is no evidence to prove it. Protein excess is not the problem. In fact, it’s often a dietary protein deficiency that contributes to skeletal problems.”

You may find this of interest as well. Here Dr. Becker interviews a Newfie breeder (not Great Danes I know – however Newfies are generally considered to be a giant breed). This breeder feeds his dogs HIGH protein raw and his dogs don’t experience many of the health problems typical to giant breed dogs and his dogs live much longer than most giant breeds (he had a dog live to be 17 – the typical life span of a giant breed is about 8).

Sorry to bombard you with reading, but large breed nutrition is one of my favorite subjects and I like to make sure people have the facts. 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nat R –

There’s no reason a Great Dane can’t eat a high protein food and, in fact, they should. It’s also not true that they should not eat puppy food as puppies, they need to eat a puppy food with controlled calcium levels appropriate for large breed growth. There’s a lot of information about this on the large breed puppy thread. Many many years ago it was believed that high levels of protein caused joint issues, it’s been known for quite some time now that this isn’t true however there are still a few vets, breeders and pet owners that believe this myth.

[crazy4cats]

Hi there-
Wow! Two St. Bernard pups at the same time. yikes! We took on two golden lab pups at the same time. It was crazy and still is at times and they are almost three! I do not feed home made food and only a little raw with kibble a few times a week, but I wanted to bump up your post in hopes someone else will respond. I do know there is a thread on large breed pups on this site that will be helpful. You are right there are special requirements to help avoid hip dysplasia. Keeping your pups lean and not over exercising are two important factors. Also their calcium levels need to be limited. That information is on the large breed thread. Hound Dog Mom is the expert in that area. Hopefully she will “pop” in with some guidance. Have fun! I think St. Bernard’s are adorable.

[Corey K]

I am new to these forums and hoping for some assistance. I have been doing a lot of research on foods lately as I have two senior bearded collies one with some stomach issues and hoping to find a food they can both eat. In addition, I have a 3 year old 100 lb dane mix who is going through some teeth issues and I was told to soften his food. I see on the website the food calculator but unless I’m missing something, what I do not see anywhere is the calorie content in food. Right now I am feeding him natures’ recipe canned food and chicken with rice. Before the issues, he was eating IAMs large breed food and he ate 4 cups a day. I cannot figure out how much of this current food to feed him. The cans say for his weight he would need 5 but I am supplementing the chicken and rice. Right now I am giving him 2 cans, and one cup each of the chicken and rice. I do not plan to go back to IAMs when the issue is resolved. I guess there is no “cups of food required daily based on weight” way to figure it out?

[Akari_32]

I keep my lab mix on almost exclusively on high protein (30+ %), grain free foods because she does terrible on most grain inclusive foods (drops weight, poor coat). Every dog is different, and not all grain free are created equally. Saying that all labs must have a certain type food (or all of any breed, for that matter) is like saying a certain diet is appropriate for all people, regardless of their individual needs.

Definitely check out the large breed puppy thread. I’m not sure of it’s on there, but I’m partial to Wellness CORE. My dogs do great on all the ones I’ve tried, and with local sales and Wellness’s $5 off any size bag coupons, I get it for about $2 usually. I also like the looks of NutriSource. I’m just now venturing into the brand, with Super Performance, a high calorie, grain inclusive food, but they have something for everyone. The dogs are just now about 50/50 into that, so I don’t have much to say about it in action yet, but many people use the brand and love it on here. I’m not sure if any of their foods are appropriate for a LBP, but it could be something to look into later on when your guy is an adult, if not. 🙂

[jen.mcco]

Curious if there is a listing of foods that include grain by any chance– I do rotation diets with my older boxers (5 yrs and 9 yrs) which include grain/grain-free/raw– WE do not feed corn/wheat/soy products and everything I feed is on the 4 or 5 star list– However we will be getting another boxer puppy in 3 wks– Although I would like to rotate his diets as well I would like to know if there are any 4 star foods that are acceptable for a large breed puppy that is not totally grain free-

[Tina]

7 days later we had to switch back to Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult because he stopped eating. He ate it for one meal but stopped the second meal. The I bought a bag of Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Young Adult. He gobbled that down the first three days but stopped again the fourth day. Throughout this process I tried all types of wet food and even chicken broth ad well as chicken.

[Tina]

As an adult Shadow started off on Hill’s Science Diet Sensitive Skin and Coat formula (back when the formula was separate). Then I gradually changed him over to Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult. He was eating that great until recently when I began reading about ways to help demodectic mange. I began changing him over to Hill’s Ideal Balance Grain Free Adult Chicken and Potato formula. He ate that for the first few days but then he stopped so I tried different types of wet food with it.

[Robert M]

EVO Turkey and Chicken large breed

[LabTX]

Hound Dog Mom, I’ve been reading a lot of your posts on the Large Breed Puppies topic and was wondering if you had some insight for a large breed adult puppy. I have a 7.5 yr old, 65lb, chocolate lab who has been on a RAW diet for the last 2-3 years. She has been through BARF, Tuckers, and most recently OC RAW. My wife thought it would be easier if we switched her back to dry food. The savings would be nice, but I’m worried about her health more than anything. Are there any decent dry food replacements that are going to do as well as the RAW? I will say, I have never seen a dog so excited to eat in my life. Sometimes I wonder if she’s constantly hungry on the RAW because of the way she acts, but she maintains a healthy 65lb weight.

[JAYNE V]

Good morning. Our long awaited Rottweiler pup was born yesterday. In 9 weeks time she will be coming home. I will be sending our breeder food for our pup, as I would like her to start on her LBP food from the get go.

I live in South Africa and have perused HDM’s amazing list (thank you for all your efforts and research AND for sharing). I can get hold of the Earthborn Holistic food, BUT, I am a huge Orijen fan (my deceased male rottie was on it for years) and wanted to know if there is any specific reason the Orijen Large breed puppy didn’t make the list – or is it specifically due to the calcium levels? This is the food I was planning to start her on – now having 2nd thoughts due to this list.

I am a huge Champion Pet food fan, and ideally Orjien is what she will be fed for the remainder of her days – but if the calcium content is too high – I don’t want to risk it?

Any advice would be greatly appreaciated -:) Thanking you in advance.

[Suburban Gal]

“…but I’m sorry I can’t in all good faith recommend a retractable leash, especially to a larger dog like yours. I feel they can be a danger to the owner and dog. One just does not have the control over the dog with these kinds of leashes. Better control is achieved with regular leather 6ft. leashes, imho.” – Mom2Cavs

I’m sorry you feel this way.

While a regular 6 FT leash always does offer the best control, there’s no reason why one can’t have really good control of their dog, regardless of size, on a retractable leash.

I’ve walked German Shepherds on retractables and have never had any problems using them on German Shepherds and, as you know, German Shepherds are 80+ LB dogs.

I’ve also used them on my Keeshonden, a medium-sized spitz breed from Holland that weighs between 30 and 60 LBS, and I’ve never had any problems using them on my Keeshonden, especially White Paw as he was a very well-trained dog that knew how to listen and always do what he was told when he was told to do it.

If you have a dog like White Paw that’s exceptionally trained via formal training or a dog like Lexi, my last German Shepherd, that acts well enough without all the formal training, then there should never be any concern over using a retractable leash.

It’s all about how well your dogs behave on a leash or how well you make your dogs behave on a leash, as is currently the case with Gizmo who’s NEVER really been on a leash prior to his adoption.

[aquariangt]

Simply Nourish LB is a 1.2% calcium max-I think that’s close to ok, HDM?

I personally have simply nourish in my rotation (though I only use source-and I think that line only has large breed adult, not puppy) It’s really the only thing I use from Petsmart. I have used Nulo’s Freestyle line, so would probably use the medal series which is a petsmart exclusive as well. I don’t use anything blue, and wellness-just haven’t, but some people swear by it.

Of the three as long as SN is acceptable, I like that-but if its a wolf dog I think you for sure want to avoid any possible grain?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would agree with Shasta220 about considering a raw diet. The book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown would be a great starting point. If not – the only food on your list that is appropriate for large breed puppies (to my knowledge) is Wellness CORE Puppy.

[Shasta220]

Is this your first WD (wolf dog)? Wolves have different dietary needs that dogs, and kibble is usually a bad idea for them. I know some WD breeders personally, and they say that kibble containing grains can be disasterous.

I’d definitely suggest looking into a raw food. If you don’t want to take the time for that, then definitely make sure the food is grain free and has a large amount of meat…

[rudy g]

My boy bear is 8 weeks old. He is a timber wolf shepherd. He breeder had him on diamond and I made the transition to simply nourish for large breed puppies. There has been no problems up to now. My one year old gsd was on blue wilderness until about 8 months. She did good on it. I read about the lawsuit by purina against blue. Blue just countered it.

Opinions on which food I should put him on:

Simply nourish large breed puppies.
Blue wilderness lbp.
Simply nourish lbp.
Core lbp.

Thx in advance.

[Tina]

Each dip that he went through he got worst. He would loose over 80% of his hair, his skin would turn red and he would become very lethargic after. Now his hair seems a little better but not like it should. He still has bald spots and is itchy all the time. I thought it was fleas so I got some flea prevention and put it on him but shortly after he got even more itchy then before. Right now he’s on Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult and I’m changing him to Hill’s Science Diet Ideal Balance Grain Free.

[Tina]

What about food? What do you recommend? He needs a grain free diet, possibly for large breed dogs?

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! I’m trying to figure out the calories per cup on some of the more interesting Authority foods, and I can’t seem to turn up any way to convert kcal/kg to kcal/cup. Any help would be great!

Puppy w/ chicken 3,850 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Large Breed Puppy 3,635 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Adult Chunk (and Mini Chunk) w/ Chicken 3,730 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)
Adult Large Breed w/ Chicken 3,635 kcal/kg metabolizable energy (calculated)

The website doesn’t have an option for the Grain Free ones, but if anyone knows those, I’d like to hear about the calories/cup on those as well.

Heres the wedsite if that helps any (is it to much to ask for an email address to contact them by??)
http://authoritypetnutrition.com/index.shtml

[LexiDog]

It says “We recommend any of these brands of large breed puppy diets: Science Diet, Eukanuba, Eagle, and Nutro”. Large breed puppies and explains why these are recommended based on the protein, fat and calcium to phosphorus levels. I am sure the recommended foods are appropriate for large breed dogs but I am sure that there are quality foods out there with way better ingredients.

My poor friends dog is on the W/D diet because he is diabetic and says that he poops 6 TIMES A DAY!!! That is because he is eating just corn!! There are better foods out there especially for diabetic dogs.

SD Rx foods are garbage

[aimee]

Naturella… Since you’d trust a holistic vet with education in nutrition you may be interested to know that Susan G. Wynn, DVM, CVA, CVCH, AHG Veterinary Nutrition and Integrative Medicine
recommends Science Diet : ) susanwynn.com/uploads/Large_breed_puppy_nutrition.doc

I’m open to the idea that veterinary nutritionists and PhD nutritionists use different criteria to evaluate diets and I find that they often recommend Hills. I’ve also found that when commercial foods are fed to zoo animals Hills is often used. My local zoo feeds Hills. I asked why and if they get it as a donation and was told by the zoo nutritionist that they purchase the food and they use it because of the controlled nutrient levels and high bioavailability of the nutrients.

[Tina]

My 1 year old large breed dog has demodectic mange, help!

[pugmomsandy]

Nutrisource grain free Heartland Select and Seafood Select are 25% and the grain free Large Breed foods are 23%, and the remaining two grain free formulas are 28%. My fosters seem to transition well to these and I don’t know what they were eating before. Canidae Pure Land is 25%, the rest are 32%. I had a bout of loose/mucousy to bloody stools with half my dogs this past winter when I added Merrick grain free to their mixture! I backed down on the Merrick and they went back to normal. Basically, I try to keep the protein level at around 25-30 for the fosters and they won’t have too many poop issues. The dogs that have been here a couple weeks are able to eat a higher protein level after a while with a 5 star canned food topper. I also give them probiotics. My 14 yr old eats anything, even some raw food without problems. He’s been here over a year. My foster forever.

• This reply was modified 12 years ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 12 years ago by pugmomsandy.