[Corey K]

thank you for the feedback. I actually tried the raw diet, and the highest end foods with him prior to the issues and he will not touch them. He seems very picky and also will not eat canned food. I was just reading about the cranberry supplements and may give them a try. He eats IAMs large breed for ages 1-5 now because it’s the only thing he will consistently eat. I am confused about one thing I’m reading. I keep reading that the struvite crystals do not need treated unless there is an active infection. He does have an active infection and is on an antibiotic. My vet tested his urine a week after the begin of antibiotic and it was back to normal. I plan to keep him on the antibiotic for 4 weeks. Why does it say that the crystals are only dangerous if there is infection – is that simply because the infection needs treated? Or do the crystals behave differently or pose a different threat if accompanied by infection? So confusing!!!

[Naturella]

Victor has teeny kibbles, Holistic Health Extension Small/Toy Breed has teeny kibbles too. My dog was 5lbs or so when we adopted him, he was very small, but was able to eat Blue Buffalo Wilderness with no problem. I haven’t ever fed him small breed anything since the first food he was on – Nutro Natural Choice Small Breed Puppy. Since then he’s been on:
Blue Buffalo Wilderness
Nutrisca
Dr. Tim’s (largest kibble he’s ever had)
Holistic Health Extension
Earthborn Holistic
Now! Fresh
Victor (smallest kibble he’s ever had)
Nature’s Variety Instinct
Annamaet samples (good size, close to Victor)
NutriSource samples (close to HHE)
TOTW samples (close to HHE/BBW)
Nulo sample (a bit bigger than BBW)

Overall Bruno has managed to deal with all kibble sizes just fine. But you can check out Victor and other small breed varieties of good 5-star foods. 🙂

[Andrew M]

We have a 3 month old German bred German Shepherd Dog puppy.
We are feeding him Orijen LB Puppy. His stool is soft, not loose or runny. He also has “gas”…
Was advised to give him some plain yogurt to help with the “gas” issue. Was also told by a breeder that the Orijen, while excellent, may be too rich for him. What is the opinion about Nutro Ultra Large Breed Puppy? (We fed our Golden Nutro Ultra senior and were very pleased with the results.) Thanks in advance to all who comment…

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Andrew M.

[Mary M]

I found a link to the study: http://juliet84.free.fr/Articles/bibliographie/SDTE/javma.2000.217.pdf

This is an old study, 2000. 14 years old. That’s the first problem.
The second problem with this study is that it enrolled 1,637 dogs, (all large or giant breed) and only 98 of them developed gastric-dilatation volvulus (GDV) or bloat…and out of those, only 29 died. That’s a very small percentage number from which to make ANY major conclusions.

As related to “moistening dog food” the authors even state in their discussion about it and some other factors they mention: “most likely, however, many of these factors were sig-
nificant only because of confounding.”
If you want the definition of confounding in statistics read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confounding

It’s really important when discussing research to not just throw quotes or information around, but to look at the article critically, and evaluate it on the merits of the study. The researchers did not “control” for any of these factors, they simply sent out questionnaires to owners and then “associated” certain factors with the dogs who developed bloat.

The authors have a “discussion” section, but not a “conclusions” section, meaning they really couldn’t come up with any hard conclusions. It’s an interesting study, but it’s not very well designed.

I moisten my dog’s kibble with a tablespoon of warm water (filtered water, warmed in the microwave), and she does just fine. 😉

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Mary M.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Mary M.

[texasniteowl]

Short story: we’ve been on chicken and rice for a month and need to get back on a kibble.

You can skip to near the bottom about what kibble to go with or you can read…the long story.

Long story:

My dog Wilson is about 7 and 1/2. We have had him for about 19 months. He came to us on Purina lamb and rice. I first switched him to Fromm’s Duck and Sweet Potato and then later to Fromm’s grain free Salmon Tunalini. He also with every meal got a tbsp of yogurt, usually Fage Greek Plain but sometimes other brands. He was on the Salmon Tunalini for about 7 or 8 months.

In late April, he started eating a lot more grass than usual. Prior, he ate grass maybe once every 2 or 3 months. But he started going out in the a.m. (mostly a.m.) to eat grass about 4 times a week. But no other symptoms really presented. At first.

By mid to late May he was still grass eating but poo had started changing and not for the better. But we would have days were it was fine and then days where it was bad and then days when it was fine again. He still ate his food and still loved his walks, etc. But we also did have a few days where his interest in his food in the morning was not present. Then finally, after seeing some blood in his poo, we went to the vet.

Fecal test #1 was negative for parasites/giardia. Fecal test #2 showed a bacterial overgrowth of the bad, rod shaped bacteria. So vet put us on a 5 day course of amoxicillin, metronidazole, and pro-pectalin. We stayed on his kibble during this course. Finished the 5 days and on day 6, we had not only very liquid, essentially water, diarrhea, we also had vomiting. Called the vet…another 5 days of amox, metro, pro-pec. This time, went to chicken and rice.

The chicken and rice was meant to be short term!

After the 2nd 5 days, we kept on the chicken and rice and waited to see what would happen. It initially seemed like his poo started to improve. So I started mixing in a little kibble. Like less than 1/2 of 1/4 cup.

And things got worse again. So called the vet again.

The vet suggested that in spite of the parasite fecal being negative that we do a dose of panacur. And that if no improvement, our next step would be to take blood and fecal samples and send them to the vet school at Texas A&M to be evaluated. So we did the Panacur.

At first, didn’t see much improvement. But then about 4-5 days after his last dose his poo started to improve. Still on the soft side. And worryingly, a bit orange even though he wasn’t getting pumpkin. But firmer than we had seen in a while.

So, I went by a local boutique pet store who gave me a sample of Orijen Adult and I started mixing in some. Just a little.

And the poo got even better.

Nearly normal! Using the Purina fecal scoring model, we’re up to a 3 where 2 is ideal. We had been averaging a 4.5-5 at one point with some individual poos even worse!

So, I want to slowly increase the amount of kibble. And at some point, I plan to re-introduce probiotics (maybe powder instead of yogurt) and maybe add enzymes.

(I also bought the $3 book about supplementing kibble with fresh stuff…and would like to do that…eventually. First things first.)

Anyway, props to anyone who made it thru all that.

The main question:
Which kibble to go with for now?

A friend of mine who has a dog with severe IBD suggested that maybe a food intolerance started the whole cycle to start with, but I don’t know that I buy that. She suggested a novel protein. But, he’s been on chicken and rice, and the Orijen Adult is chicken based and his poo is improving right now. Is it possible he has a food intolerance of some kind? Sure. Allergies? Yes. In fact, he seems to have a grass allergy. Since I know he has had chicken and duck and lamb and fish, if we start looking at a novel protein, I’d be looking at pork or venison or rabbit. But I don’t know what else he might have had before we adopted him. And in terms of amount paw-licking, etc. I don’t think it is much different than any other time. He can get itchy ears too, but the vet attributes that to mostly seasonal allergies.

The qualm I have about the Orijen Adult is mainly due to the high fat content. 18%. We are mostly inactive. He is a lap dog most of the day except for our daily 1.1 to 1.2 mile walks. And a little bit of fetch with a tennis ball. But otherwise he loves nothing more than snuggling in my lap in the recliner. And he is 65lbs! And, as mentioned he is 7 and 1/2. Should I start watching the fat %? Though his weight last time we were at the vet was within 3 lbs of what they called ideal. So we are doing pretty good so far.

Then there is the matter of grain free vs. grain inclusive. In the best scenario, I prefer grain free. But I’m not sure I’m crazy about all of them going to lentils for fill. Though, the Orijen Adult has lentils and I have not seen a problem so far. But it has only been about 4-5 days and he is getting a limited amount.

I do like that the Orijen Adult is a higher protein level. His previous food was only 31% protein and the Orijen Adult is 42%. Maybe it was the fact that he has been on chicken and rice for a month that made the higher protein level an easier switch? It’s been proven now that a higher protein percent for senior dogs is OK, right?

Orijen Senior is similar to Adult except uses pea fiber also. The fat is 15% instead of 18%. And fiber is 8% instead of 5%.

Some other mostly chicken or at least poultry based foods I was considering are:
Taste of the Wild Wetlands
Wellness CORE Original
Wellness CORE Reduced Fat (37% protein, 11% fat)
Acana Adult Large Breed (37% protein, 14% fat)
Acana Light & Fit (39% protein, 10% fat)
Acana Senior (37% protein, 14% fat)
Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast
Merrick Grain Free Chicken & Sweet Potato

Anyway, I’m really at a loss here. Novel protein or not? Fat %? Protein %? Lentils? Other food suggestions?

[Debbie L]

Actually I have tried some chemical topical flea and tic treatments but these did not seem to be too effective. I applied them as per instructions, but I think fleas and perhaps tics too have become immune to a lot of this stuff. So far I’ve not noticed any definite signs and symptoms of tapeworms. I remember years ago when our family had some property in the deep Texas Hill Country region my dad said he picked six tics off himself in one day. He said he began taking garlic tablets and soon thereafter never got another tic. I’ve read people say they give their dog garlic (not every day) in small quantities and the dog does not have fleas. I’m a firm believer in treating from the inside out.

Back in ’09 my female Collie was aging and her immune system was down, thereby making her more susceptible to fleas. Plus, we had a lot of rain that summer and the vet said that was a factor in the heavy flea load also. I began feeding her Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover’s Soul and within about a month the fleas all but disappeared and she pretty much quit scratching. I didn’t want to use harsh chemicals due to her advanced age. As long as she ate that she was fine, but it doesn’t have the hip/joint stuff in it she needed so I had to add that. She passed in February of 2011 at the age of 14 years and 2 months. I’d try Chicken Soup for the dogs I now have but they have reduced their quantity but gone up in price.

I’ve noticed some places where the dogs have lost hair it is growing back some, so something is working. I’m always looking for ways to keep my dogs healthy and so far these two males, one given to me as a stray when he was a puppy (large mixed breed), and the other a give-a-way no one wanted (Peke-a-Chon), are doing well. Barney is the large dog and Buster the small one.

[Dyann R]

According to research done by Dr. Larry Glickman at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine, and published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, moistening dry dog food contributes to the risk of Gastric Dilatation Volvulus, GDV, commonly known as bloat, which is the second leading cause of death in large and giant breed dogs.

[Travis A]

Yea we actually have a special needs dog too so it is a bit challenging at times but still worth it in the end. But I haven’t looked into the Victor line-up yet but will do so for sure. That’s exactly what i was wanting to do is sub a grain free with a non grain free if it doesn’t affect them in a negative way with the switching, but i did want to get something like a neck or other raw treat more or less to add into their diets and see if they like it and do well with it. But with a larger breed dog i know i need to focus on Calcium consumption so how do i measure that, not all brands give that info on their products. Thank you all so much for the assistance as well i really appreciate it, i will upload some photos soon of my boys as well.

[spaniel39]

Hey
HDM
I’m not sure my last comment/question went through. please advise
I’m well familiar with the leve of Phosphorous/Calcium levels of growing large
breed pups . My baby Sophie the Komondor is now 120lbs at 16 months;
At some point, I want to switch her food, but as an adult (aroun d 20-24 months)
do I still need to check calcium levels or can she eat just about any adult kibble
right now, she’s on foods that are under 1.3 calcium and under 1.0 phosphorous.

Thank you

[spaniel39]

I’ve had great luck with Nutrisource Large breed Puppy Lamb and also the adult formula
I didn’t realize (years ago) that lamb is relatively easy to digest by pups, even more so
than chicken/pork/beef

[2manycats]

I have 6 month old English Mastiff/Saint Bernard mix (fixed). She had stomach issues and is currently on Hill’s I/D from my vet. I want to switch her back to a Giant Breed pet food but unsure which one to put her on. She was on Precise Giant Breed when her issues started. Has anyone feed their Giant Breed puppy the Pet Valu Large Breed puppy? Any suggestions on puppy food for my little …. I mean big girl .. she is 60lbs. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lisa –

The criteria to make the list is listed at the top of the document. Wellness Large Breed Puppy does not meet the criteria.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lisa K –

I’ve heard variation over what mature weight constitutes a dog as being classified as a large breed – some say 50 lbs. or more at maturity and others say 60 lbs. or more at maturity. The AKC breed standard states that labs range from 55 lbs. to 75 lbs. on average. Either way, labs are definitely a large breed and should be fed accordingly. Labs are highly prone to orthopedic conditions such as hip dysplasia so it’s crucial that they receive a proper diet during growth.

[aquariangt]

Definitely go with something on the list, as they have the appropriate calcium levels.

It won’t hurt the lab to go large breed even if they end up small, so it’s better to be safe than sorry. They can still get the same bone/joint/hip issues that effect the giants

[Lisa K]

I was considering Wellness Large Breed puppy food for my lab puppy. I see Wellness Core: Puppy make it to the list, but not Wellness Large Breed Puppy. Wondering which one to purchase. On a side note, my friend’s ( who own’s my pup’s bro) vet told her that the lab is not considered a large breed. WE are really struggling over choosing which food is best for them. Sny help would be appreciated. Very confusing.

[Lisa K]

In the list of large breed puppy nutrition of recommended foods I was wondering why Wellness Core: Puppy is listed but not Wellness Large Breed Puppy. In addition, my friends vet told her that a lab is not considered a large breed and not necessary to give large breed food. She has my puppies brother so we are trying to figure out which puppy food is best.

[Dfwgolden]

Hi everyone!

Ok so I have serious question for xx large breed dog owners.
I have a 12 week old male Great Dane puppy.
When we got him he was on Diamond Puppy formula and doing iffy.
We feed ourdogs a grain free rotational diet.
And they have done awesome. However Bane has seemed to decline since we got him.

He’s growing normally and everything however he has had soft stool since day one.
And these past two weeks it’s literally been water/patte.
Two days ago He had to go CONSTANTLY. And just explodes I kid you not it’s like an explosion.
A norm poop just falls even if it’s diarrhea however his blows like a gun. Splashing everywhere.
Including in our new car… Three times within two hours.
And it’s not just a little it’s A LOT.

He’s been on-
Diamond Puppy
Whole Earth Farms
And recently Diamond Naturals Large Breed chicken and rice.
This last food is when he hit his worst.

After two weeks of this I took him off the food sunday afternoon. And only gave him canned pumpkin salt, plain crackers, plain yogurt (live culture) and some probiotic human capsules.

Last night I finly have him some solid food:
Wellness Simple Salmon formula.
This morning he finally pooped and it was solid! But very orange defiantly could tell it was from the pumpkin! Haha!

He has since pooped three more times all of which have been mostly solid but could be better.
Shaped but mushy.

I’m wondering if it’s poultry and the Petco guy recommended it as a way to start into a LID and see if that helps. (The simple)
He had his ears cropped about 3-4 weeks ago and was on antibiotics which could possibly play a roll? And he is down on his probiotics?
He was only on them for a week though and this didn’t start up to water until recently.

He is on dewormer and flea/tick. Sintenal. And has received his last round of puppy shots. No rabies yet.
My dad brought up the possibility of Giardia and Coccidia. Had a fu work up done today he he’s clean as a whistle on his fecal Giardia and blood.
Our vet is a dane breeder herself

Bane is eating and drinking normally and has shown no signs of “illness” he’s just his goofy self as always!

My biggest
Concern however is the fact that if he does do good on wellness simple that we won’t be able to keep him on it.
It’s $68 for 27lbs.
And with him already eating 6 cups a day and is having 4 other dogs.
You get the gist.
I live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas area and believe it or not my food choices although broad are limited to either $&!+ or high dollar.

We’ve done 4Health and Diamond and Proplan and purina one (which believe it or
Not the weight loss formula did fantastic for out over weight senior golden)

The vet said it’s possible he has a grain and poultry allergy.
Which limits my choices even more as even “duck and oatmeal” formulas contain chicken fat.

I leave for a month long Vacation with Bane to Poplar Bluff Missouri on the 15th white it being so Rural that lowers my availability even more.
Meaning I don’t have time to try a raw diet for him.

I need something that’s no more than $45-$50 a bag that can basically “hold him over” until I get back In 4 weeks.

I’m in need her Hound Dog mom! Lol.

[theBCnut]

It’s slightly high in calcium for a large breed puppy, so you need to add a little bit of a meat topper without any calcium added to get the calcium level down.

[Melinda M]

I am so thankful for the site and all the knowledge & advice that is shared. I have learned so much which in turn will help my 4-legged baby! However, I am in great need of advice. My 1 yr old yellow lab is off in duck hunting/retriever training school. She is in a very critical point in her training and is burning a great deal of calories. She is losing weight
(5 lbs). We are trying to help her gain weight by switching her food (which needed to be switched any ways) from ProPlan to Wellness Core Large Breed. However, I did not pay attention to the fat content of the Wellness and when the food reached the trainer He stated our Bella may lose weight on the Wellness due to its lower fat content 14% compared to the Proplan which has a 20% fat content. PLEASE HELP! do I complete choose a different dry food other than WELLNESS or do I add a canned food to her dry OR the vet even suggested a “fat supplement”. I have no idea what to use as a fat supplement. I need something that is pretty convenient for the trainer to feed since he has 18 dogs to feed. However, I want it to be healthy for my Bella but decently economical as well.
Thank you in advance for any knowledge/advice you can pass on to me.

[latis2270]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

First of all, thank you so much for your dedication to, and excellent work in filling in some of the gaps in the grey area that is proper giant breed puppy nutrition. Finding this forum has eased a lot of the stress I’ve accumulated in looking for the right food for my puppy after hearing/reading conflicting opinions of what he should be eating from our vet, Saint blogs and non-giant puppy info sources…

I have a lovely 9 month old fixed male Saint Bernard. He is hovering around 85 pounds and growing fast with lots of energy, the appetite of a lion and a very healthy, lean body shape. Unfortunately he is having problems with digestion of his current food as his stool is consistently soft/diarrhea on the tail end of going to the bathroom (it always starts out solid). He is currently on Wellness Large Breed puppy formula and after reading your article and lots of reviews of other people having issues I see that it’s time to switch.

After researching some of the food on your list, I have my eye on the Earthborn Holistic brand, possibly the coastal catch variety. I do have a couple of questions and wonder if you might have an opinion-

1) I have read several of your responses for people asking about portions to feed a puppy on an adult food and understand, of course, that it is based on individual needs. But I am trying to ballpark where to start him based on his age as an older puppy with higher energy levels and a good amount of activity. His appetite is monstrous as well, I feel like he could eat way more than what we give him but of course I am respecting a healthy diet and trying to maintain a safe weight for his growth. We feed him a bit more than what the Wellness bag recommends because he seems so hungry and it has not affected his weight at all. Should I start him off at 1 1/2 of what the chart says? Not sure if 2 times the amount is too much as he’s not such a small puppy anymore….

2) Although your list has the EH varieties listed as 5 on DFA, the DFA website itself lists them at 4. I double checked to see that the calcium percentage is still the same as listed on your chart, and it is. But do you think the 4 score is a negative reflection on the brand if it dropped from a 5 to a 4?

Thanks so much for all of your help!

[Saig]

Hi, could we have a review of the Propac Ultimates range? Be especially keen to see if the large breed puppy compares to the original large breed which included corn.

Thank you.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Greg,

Check this list: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/preview?pli=1

I’m not able to open the list on my device right now, but this should be a list of foods with appropriate Calcium levels for large breed puppies. I believe there are a couple of Victor foods on the list. Your adults can eat the same food as your pups, but the pups can’t necessarily eat the same food as the adults.

Blessings to you also.

[LabOwner]

Thanks Hound. I see Wellness Core Puppy is on there. Will that be okay even if it is not a large breed puppy formula?

[LabOwner]

Are Wellness Complete Health Chicken Brown Rice and Salmon Meal Large Breed Puppy Food or lue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken Large Breed Puppy Food good options for a lab puppy?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by LabOwner.

[Scott B]

Wellness seems to have a whole bunch of recipes but I can’t find the Super5Mix review.

The full name is: Wellness Super5Mix Adult Health Large Breed

And there are a number of variations on the Super5Mix theme.

[aquariangt]

Grains are inflammatory, and to my understanding, makes a bigger difference in large breeds than in smaller ones-in addition to being a common allergy (the whole group of grains in general)

I don’t shy away from good grains in my dog food-brown rice, oatmeal, barley, etc… as none of mine have issues with it. In fact, one of mine may be reacting to peas (still testing this) so I would be leaning towards grain inclusive more anyway.

My comment on Fromm’s 4star is because the grain inclusive are all lower in protein, and I try to stay around 30%, and am pushing even higher now that I’m down to 2 as of this month, as the third couldn’t handle the higher 35% and higher proteins.

[aquariangt]

Erin-I don’t do large breeds, but all 4 of the companies you mentioned are (in general) safe brands to feed. Of course no one is immune to a recall, but they are all solid companies. I use both Fromm (4 star GF only, the gold and 4star grain inclusive can be a bit low in protein) and Earthborn in my rotations, and have used the other two as well-though in my opinion both have become so big that they are a bit overpriced.

[Linsey H]

Hi there, I started reading these forums back when I was first researching a puppy, and so far it has served me well, though I finally have a question. I know that there is a separate thread for large breed puppies, but I felt like my question might have been a bit too long and complicated for it.

I have a 21w, 45lb female Shiloh Shepherd and she has recently started teething. I have been restricting her calcium pretty thoroughly, though I have heard from several reliable people that I should be giving her more during her teething phase. My internet searches so far have been unhelpful and I have not found much scientific data on large breeds and teething. I am also a little concerned with her current diet ratios, so if I am doing something terrible, I am hoping that someone can call me out on it. So far my puppy has been putting on steady 2 pounds a week, with the exception of a few ~3lb/week growth spurts. She does appear to get occasional growing pains still though.

Her current diet:
She receives two meals a day which consist of kibble and toppers, and since she is a puppy she still receives a significant amount of training treats. I have been using http://www.animalmedicalcenterofchicago.com/pdf/CalorieRequirementsForDogs.pdf as a rough guideline for calories- my puppy gets roughly 1.1-1.3k C from kibble and then 200-500C from toppers, chews and training treats. I have read that large breeds have slightly different requirements after 4mo, plus my puppy is decently active- she walks a lot, plays plenty of fetch, and then gets at least 1 hour of dog play through various outlets daily. I generally adjust how much she gets of what based on what she did that day, and she has been staying very lean and well muscled.

For kibble, her breeder had her on Earthborn Holistic: Meadow Feast, and since that was on Hound Dog Mom’s list and had the right amount of calcium I have kept her on it. The breeder also suggested using Flexicose and Missing Link Puppy as supplements- I am not sure if Missing Link is the best, but the breeder said that the calcium amounts checked out (only the min is on the package).

For toppers, she almost always gets a tablespoon of pumpkin and then either raw green tripe, a raw ground mix from our butcher, or canned PetKind. The raw mix consists of 10% green tripe, 10% organs, and 80% beef – it is bone free and has been the main thing reducing calcium in her diet. As of last month, I have started giving my puppy either a raw (irradiated) egg or a chicken wing every 2-3 days (whenever she finishes .75-1lb pound of the supplement). I had read somewhere that a chicken wing contains ~1.86g of calcium and 89g total with ~38% being bone, though my math is still somewhat guestimate-y. I also have backs and necks, but I was under the impression that they had more calcium.

For treats, she either gets soft Buddy Biscuits (grain free), dried/dehydrated meat, lamb lung, Orijen treats, or cooked chicken- she definitely prefers softer treats and no is no longer interested in kibble rewards (she spits it out in training). When I had her on only meat-based rewards, she started to get a little snobbish so I reintroduced the Buddy Biscuits, but I am not sure that they are the healthiest option. I try to limit the amount on normal days to 100C, and then for days she has class (or if I work with her on a lot of new behaviors) she gets 200-300C.

For chews, she either gets Beams (fish skin), bison trachea (dehydrated, I have not been able to find raw/frozen), or tendon- though she is not as interested in the last two since she has been teething. Pumpkin filled kongs have been another option, though she is not a big kong fan. Lamb lung, jerky, or sweet potato, are rare accompaniments to the pumpkin. She is a gentle chewer and only finishes the beams in a single session. She is no longer interested in fruit/veggie chews. For teething, I have tried frozen towels/ropes soaked in a broth solution, but she has yet to go for them. Her favorite “chew” is definitely the raw bones, but I don’t want to give her too many due to calcium levels.

Anyways, my core question is this:
Does her current diet seem too far out of balance?

With the follow-ups being these:
1) Am I giving her too many calories in unbalanced toppers and treats?
2) Is my puppy getting too much or not enough calcium?
3) Are there other raw chewing options with less calcium (unless she needs more)?
4) Are there any specific books I should read in addition to Dr. Becker and Steve Brown’s books?
5) What are some of the better online resources for buying raw? My local butcher shop is pretty great, but unfortunately they don’t carry everything.

[Trout-lily]

Thank you everyone for your advice on where to buy dog food. I’m debating about wellness, fromm, natures variety, or earth born holistic. I have issues with not knowing where the food is coming from as my parents just spent thousands of dollars from salmonella poisoning with their (our) beloved black lab. The vet hospital claimed it was sweet potato treats from china that most likely caused the issue. Luckily she is fully rehabbed but it has caused us to be cautious about where our dog products are coming from. Anyone have recommendations for a trusted puppy brand off of the ‘large breed puppy food list’ for my 14 week old Berner?

Also, do I stop watching the calcium levels after the pup is fully grown? I want to say Berners reach maturity after 2 years but that seems like an awful long time to be on puppy food.

Thank you!

[spaniel39]

Hi, mom <g>
You might remember I have a Big Komondor Girl, Sophie, now 120 lean pounds and
16 Months old. I’m the one that discovered the calcium miss labeling on Canine Caviar.
Anyway, Sophie is on Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb and she loves the Fromm Beef
(Frittata) I’m mixing in with it.
Anyway, I trust your judgement of course, But I thought even as full grown adults
(with the komondor, 18-24 months), still had to watch the calcium levels.
Not taken in by industry advertising, but of course all the “adult” large breed formulas
marketed by companies
Anyway, so once full grown, doesn’t matter? Calcium levels over 2 % and more ok.
Good to know. I supplement with green beens, some fruit (she can smell a blueberry, her
favorite, a mile away, stole my banana from the counter today, etc etc etc)
But for her staple dry kibble, would be nice to rotate inexpensively (for me, under
$55 for a 25 pound bag), and if calcium levels not an issue in a future, more choices
of course
Thanks
Michael (and Samuel the Spaniel and Sophie)!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jason –

Victor is a great food – just be aware that the only two formulas with calcium levels appropriate for large breed puppies are the chicken and rice formula and the lamb and rice formula. He’ll be fine if you switch him to a good food now, at only three months old a doubt there has been any dietary damage. 🙂 Raw meaty bones are – imo – the best chew. However, because he’s still growing and bones are high in calcium I’d limit to only once or twice a week. Things like turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. are all great. Raw tracheas are another wonderful chew for puppies – they’re nice and gummy and not too hard. If you aren’t comfortable feeding raw bones you could go with natural chews such as bully sticks or dried tracheas (just make sure they’re from a reputable company).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Qi X –

While I wouldn’t consider standard poodles to be a large breed, however I do know that they are somewhat prone to hip dysplasia so you may want to consider feeding one of the formulas in the list with appropriate calcium levels. You could feed your adult toy poodle the same food as the puppy or check out any of the 4 or 5 star rated foods. If he prefers a smaller kibble, as some small breeds do, some good options are Victor, Amicus, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety and most any formula labeled for “small breeds.”

[Tara M]

My 11 month old GSD mix has been dealing with chronic diarrhea for about 3 months now. My vet first prescribed antibiotics, Pepcid (for constant grass eating) and Proviable-DC with a tentative diagnosis of beginning signs of IBS or IBD due to high level of bad gut bacteria. She was on Authority Large Breed Puppy (chicken formula) when symptoms first started, the we transitioned to the Lamb & Rice with the same results.While on the antibiotics, Shyla’s symptoms were resolved but within 5 days of finishing, she was right back where we started. Our vet refilled the Pepcid and antibiotic with longer dosage time with a recommendation for a prescription diet. I know my vet uses Hill’s ( a brand I do not trust) and I’m not in favor. I am really wanting Shyla to be completly off the antibiotics and know it is time to go grain free and work from there to determine if this is a food intolerance but am lost as to which would be the best for her, especially when I’m on a budget with three rescues in the home. I need a good quality food but affordable as due to her weight class, she requires 4 cups of kibble daily. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated to this novice dog mama.

[Tara M]

Please help. I have a 11 month old GSD mix (resuce) who started showing signs of either food intolerance or beginnings of IBD or IBS (per vet). We have her on Proviable-DC, Pepcid, and an antibiotic (2nd round). My vet is pushing for a prescription diet, which I know them to use Hill’s, a brand I do not trust. I really would like to change her diet to something better in the hopes of eliminating all antibiotic usage, but am on a budget with three rescues in the home. Any advice? She has been on Authority Large Breed puppy (chicken formula) and Lamb and Rice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, you still need calcium. I would recommend either purchasing capsules that you can open and mixing the powder in the food or use a pill crusher or mortar and pestle to crush a tablet. Just make sure whatever multi you use has no more than 5% DV calcium listed or it will mess with the calculations. Just adjust the human dosage based on your dog’s size. For small breeds give about 1/4 of the human dose, medium dogs can get 1/2 the human dose and large dogs can get the entire human dose.

[Bret O]

Found the answer in another reply. Thanks to Hound Dog Mom:

Hi yevincent –
Yes – calcium needs to be converted to a dry matter basis for wet foods due to the high moisture content. Calculating calcium levels on a kcal. basis (versus percent of weight basis) is the most accurate way to evaluate the appropriateness of foods as it accounts for varying caloric densities between different foods. For a large breed puppy you’d want to feed a food with 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. or less. I’ll walk you through the calculation. Let’s say the food comes in a standard 13.2 oz. can, has 400 kcal. per can and the company tells you there is 0.3% calcium on an as-fed basis.
1) Convert 13.2 oz. to grams (easier to perform calculations using grams): (13.2 oz.)(28 grams/1 oz.) = ~397 g.
2) Calculate how many grams of calcium are in the can of food: (397 g.)(0.003) = 1.19 g. calcium per can.
3) Calculate how many grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal.: (1.19 g. calcium per can)/(400 kcal. per can) = 0.00298 g. calcium per kcal. (0.00298 g. calcium per kcal.)(1,000 kcal.) = ~2.98 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal.
————————————
If you wanted the calcium level on a percent basis:
1) 100% – % Moisture = % Dry Matter
2) [(As Fed Calcium %)/(% Dry Matter)] X 100%
BTW – I’d highly recommend Tripett as a canned topper for large breed puppies. It’s not a complete and balanced food as it’s green tripe only but it makes a great topper if you’re feeding a balanced kibble. Green tripe is high in protein and naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but contains very low levels of each (only about 0.3% calcium on a dry matter basis if I recall correctly). The best part is dogs go nuts for it.

[Bret O]

I’ve come to understand that among other minerals calcium intake is something important to control for your large breed dog. I’ve read that on kibble a 1.2%-1.5% range is ideal. However when I check the calcium content of wet food the numbers range from .35%-.65%. When it comes to wet food what is the appropriate calcium % for large breeds?

[Trout-lily]

Hi
I am a new mom of a 14 week old bener. My breeder told me the old wives tale of reducing the puppy to adult food after she is 4 months but now I’m reading that this is not the case. Luckily I’ve been feeding her Wellness puppy food since we got her at 10 weeks and I see that it’s on your approved list. I have two questions; 1.) When is the proper time to switch my giant breed to adult large breed dog food and 2.) where do I find most of the dog foods in your approved list? I tried searching for other varietys to mix it up a bit but I’m finding that petco and petsmart don’t carry most of the brands on the list. I’m starting to freak myself out from reading some of the posts of hipdisplasia in young pups but I figure this forum would be a good place to start to gain my sanity back. Thank you so much for sharing your research.

[spaniel39]

I have had great luck with Sophie my 120 pound Komondor on
Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb (she was on large breed puppy previously but now
she’s 15 months old).
It gets great reviews and reasonably priced especially compared to Orijen or Acana.

Before that, she did well on canine Caviar Lamb Puppy dinner but was very expensive
plus they had a labeling problem, where there was a misprint on the bags showing
the puppy formula calcium level over 2% and did nothing about it
(Oh, the food inside is ok, we just need to use up the bags!!!)
Another good one I used but don’t anymore is Artemis’s Osopure Duck and garbanzo beans
but the big bags are $70.

Personally, not into the “raw” diet for my pups;
I do supplement their diet (have 2 springer spaniels also) with a very lean
Hamburger or turkey burger—cooked—once a week or 10 days.
They love green beans, blueberries, cooked spinach.
It’s great to supplement with veggies, etc

GLTA!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bethany D –

Science Diet’s Large Breed Puppy formula has calcium levels appropriate for large breed growth. However, you may wish to check out the review for the food here.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Bethany D]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy?

[Hound Dog Mom]

You can’t look for a certain percent of calcium, whether or not a certain percent is appropriate will vary depending on the caloric density of the food. In a food which contains more calories than TOTW 1.4% may or may not be appropriate. If the food is low in calories, the dog will need to eat more to fulfill its energy needs and vice versa. So for example, if one food has 1.4% calcium and 3,000 kcal/kg and another food has 1.4% calcium but has 5,000 kcal/kg – you can see that the dog eating the lower calorie formula would end up consuming much more calcium than if it were eating the higher calorie formula. For this reason, calcium must be looked at on energy basis – usually grams per 1,000 kcal. Most nutritionists recommend the calcium levels not exceed 3.5 g/1,000 kcal. for large breed puppies. The TOTW formula you mentioned has 3.9 g/1,000 kcal.

You can give boiled eggs as often as you want as long as they don’t exceed 20% of his balanced meals.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi OnyxMom –

All of TOTW’s foods are too high in calcium for a large breed puppy, including this formula.

Personally, I would recommend avoiding foods that contain fish and instead adding canned sardines or salmon, cage-free eggs or high quality fish oil to the food for omega 3’s. The processing which the meat meals undergo to be made into kibble and the storage time very likely leaves the omega 3’s in kibble rancid by the time the food is consumed.

[OnyxMom]

Hello everyone!

I have a 5.5 month old Newfoundland Standard Poodle mix puppy (Onyx) who weighed in at about 60 pounds 2 weeks ago. We were feeding him Blue Buffalo large breed but the food doesnt agree with him, he itches constantly on it. And, his poop is Never good. I hate picking up mushy mess always. gross.

So, I was thinking about switching to Taste of the Wild’s salmon stream puppy formula, He was on this food before we got him and he loved it and was doing well on it. Im picking TOTW because of the following reasons:
1. It’s actually pretty reasonably priced for a 4 star food (on DFA) and I am a grad student so money is an issue.
2. The calcium content is at 1.4% and as recommended in this article (http://www.ivcjournal.com/articles/feeding-large-breed-puppies/) since it should be around 1.5% it seems okay to me.
3. The salmon is supposed to be good for his coat, he has the poodle hair, and I would like for it to be shinier than it is now.
4. He loves salmon anything.

I’d say Onyx is quite healthy and has a BCS of 4. Other than the occasional bout of diarrhea especially if he’s been digging up dirt, he is pretty happy and healthy.

Can anybody tell me if this is a terrible idea please? Here’s the link for the TOTW nutritional information – http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/puppies/dry_food/pacific_stream_puppy_formula/

Thank you!

[D. M]

Hi TheBCnut,

Thanks for the feedback. I thought that too, which is why I tried Natural Balance LI, both dry and canned, and home made food, but she still had either very loose stools or diarrhea. At the point where we were trying different foods, we were 2 months with those digestive issues and I was concerned about her health during that crucial stage of development, so I was willing to put her on the DCO just to control her. I’m wondering what it is about the DCO which controls her diarrhea? If I could figure that out, I would look for a high quality food that has those properties. In searching the internet, it looks like it might be the high fiber in DCO that might be balancing out her stools. Has anyone had luck with adding psyllium to their dog’s food, or knows of another high fiber food for large breed dogs?

[Bethany D]

Hi HDM,

Thank you so much for your research and insight regarding large breed dog foods. I have a couple of questions regarding food choices for my golden retriever puppy who will be coming home with me in a little over a week. I currently feed my other two dogs (an adult lab and golden) Taste of the Wild but it appears the TOTW puppy food is too high in calcium. I am investigating other large breed puppy options. I haven’t seen much written on here about Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Puppy. I don’t necessarily like that chicken meal is the top ingredient but do you have any other thoughts on that option?

Also what do you think would be the most cost effective food that would be appropriate for a large breed puppy? The Fromm Gold LBP is intriguing. I am on a bit of a budget for dog food, but I also don’t want to compromise my puppy’s health with cheap or inappropriate dog food. Thanks for the advice!

[Marie]

It’s a boy named Buster and he is a mixed, 2 year old large breed dog.

[DogFoodie]

I have a Golden and a Cavalier also.

Mine can easily eat the same things. They often don’t because I’m always trying something different and have limited choices for my Golden because of his food intolerances.

That said, I do look out for a couple of things. Both breeds gain weight easily, so if you’re feeding a high calorie food, be sure to closely watch your Cavalier’s portions. Watch them both, of course, it’s just easier to overfeed when the portion is tiny to begin with. And, I prefer smaller kibble. I don’t care for large breed formulas that have large size kibble for my Golden and would never feed it to my Cavalier.

[theBCnut]

The only issues with size are if the dog can handle the size of kibble and if the large breed is a puppy, making sure the food has the right calcium levels for a growing large breed.

[Tina]

Anyone own a Golden Retriever? If so what do you feed yours?
My Golden Retriever Angel is 8 years old and has these problems;
*dry skin
*itchy skin
*red skin
*scabs all over back, chest and tail
*weak hip and joints
*Gains weight really quick
*eats very fast
*Very gassy
She is on Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior along with Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult and Wellness Simple Salmon and Potato mixed in. She has only had chicken her entire life. These are the brands that she has tried as a puppy and a adult;
*Eukanuba Puppy
*Purina Pro Plan Puppy
*Purina One Adult
*Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Adult
*Royal Canine Golden Retriever
*Blue Buffalo Large Breed Senior
*Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Senior
*Wellness Simple Salmon and Potato
None of these I was happy with and none of them did the trick except for Royal Canine (kinda). What can you suggest? I’m open to ANY suggestions, including all life stages dog food. She will eat anything and I mean anything at all. My only stipulation is that I can find the brand in multiple stores. She never gets bored of the same brand or flavor.

Thank You All