[Amy b]

Wow, that was very helpful, thank you!
He doesn’t have allergies, but I did think grain free had health benefits. I guess I can save money three!

[anonymous]

I would use up what you have for now. But, like I said, a little chicken broth added can make a big difference 🙂
Here are my favorite sites (regarding nutrition) hope this helps

“Grain free diets have become all the rage in the last few years. I suspect this has stemmed from greater recognition of gluten sensitivity in humans. Most pet food companies have jumped on the band wagon following the marketing success of grain free human diets. The truth of the matter is that there are no dog or cat studies showing a health benefit to grain free foods. A myth has been perpetuated that grains are unhealthy. In fact, whole grains contribute vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids and are highly digestible by dogs and cats. Allergies to grains are actually very rare, and only the Irish Setter breed has been demonstrated to have a gluten sensitivity. Many grain free diets substitute potatoes and tapioca, which have less protein, more sugar, and less fiber. And typically these come at a higher cost.”
Above is an excerpt from
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/
click on link for full article
Also. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
Science based veterinary medicine

[Susan]

Hi Karen,
Are you still seeing a vet that is a vet specialist? diarrhea 6-8 times a day isn’t good, it’s better then 12 times a day but her poo’s need firming up, this is why she is losing weight, did the clinical nutritionist say to eat the cheese? cheese causes diarrhea with my IBD Staffy, you need to work out does Abby need a diet high in Soluble fiber or higher in In-Solubale fiber, my boy has IBD, Skin Allergies & Food Sensititives his vet wanted to treat his IBD first & to make sure we firm up his poos, he doesnt do well with all the Vet diets for Intestinal health or the Hyrdolyzed vet diets especially if the vet diets are higher in In-Soluble fiber & I’m pretty sure the Hills Z/d is higher in In-Solube fiber & lower in Soluble fiber??, I just looked in my desk & I can’t find the In-soluble & Soluble percentages for the Hills Z/d, I/d Digestive Care & the I/d Retsore formula’s, aaarrrhh, I’ve just moved….
I know Hills have changed their Z/d dry formula a few times, Patch was getting diarrhea from the old Z/d dry formula, the new Z/d dry formula gave him bad acid reflux & sloppy poo’s so I stopped feeding it, we have tried every single vet diet in the end a Premium dry kibble firmed up his poo’s ask your vet can you try the Hills D/D Potato & Duck formula instead, Potato firms poos up normally, in Australia we get the Hills D/D Potato & Venison formula, it’s 370 Kcals per cup so she should start to gain some weight if her poo’s start to firm up, you can email Hills & tick the box for a vet Nutritionist to ring you back & if you get a nice lady she will help you & give you the Soluble & Insoluble fiber percentages to a few vet diet formula’s this way you’ll know if your girl starts to do well on a certain vet diet if it’s higher or lower in Soluble fiber or try the Royal Canine Select Protein Potato & Rabbit dry formula or the Royal Canine Select wet can formula’s..
You know in your heart if you feel Abby is not getting anywhere with the clinical nutritionist find another one or find a good vet that specializes in Intestinal health problems that’s what I had to do with my boy I went thru 4 vets before I found the 2 vets that work at the same practice that finally helped Patch they both prefer home cooking but in the begining wet canned & home cooked went thru Patch, now 5 yrs later he does good on home cooked meals also are you sure the Probiotic is helping?? instead of the cheese try adding 1 spoon of boiled pumkin to her next meals for 2 days & see if the boiled pumkin helps firm her poo’s, Pumkin is a soluble fiber same as sweet potato, it can be frozen in those ice cube trays & take out as you need 1 spoon of cooked boiled pumkin …
Good Luck I really hope the angels find you a good Nutrititionist to help Abby firm up her poo’s & Abby gets back to normal very soon….
Go onto Facebook & join Monica Segal group called “K-9 Kitchen’ Monica is a Nutritionist you might met someone else that has a dog with similar problem or there’s Lew Olson group called “K-9 Nutrition” Lews friend in the group (I”ve forgotten her name) knows alot about Intestinal problems & might be able to help with foods to start feeding that are very healthy & start firming Abby’s poo’s…

[christiana t]

I have a dog with Lupus. He has food allergies and environment allergies. I did the allergy testing at UC Davis, which some pooh pooh, and found chicken and poultry mixes, to be bad for him, along with soy, white potatoes, pork and house dust, etc. What manages Lupus is regular dermatologist check ups and daily doxycycline with nacinamide. He’s 10, doing well, very rarely any flare ups.

[ray q]

I highly recommend The Honest Kitchen dehydrated dog food it is rated on this site, They have both a base mix (you add the protein) and also mixes with protein already mixed in. This food is excellent for dogs with allergies and it has been approved by the FDA as human grade food, which means you can eat it yourself if so inclined.

[ray q]

#1 I don’t believe there are very many if any good kibble for dogs. I highly recommend for those dogs with weight problems and food allergies is The Honest Kitchen dehydrated dog food base mix(you add your own protein) It once hydrated looks like a full bowl of food and yes it is fda approved for humans, so you can eat it also, if you want. It is a little higher in cost than kible but that is the point. They use quality grade products to make their food, not all the sugars and other horrible products in their food. You can find the ratings on this site.

[Susan]

Hi Fanette,
the Australian made & Europeon made TOTW Sierra Mountain & Pacifiic Stream does not have Lentils or Garbanzo beans, send an email to TOTW & ask TOTW is the TOTW sold in France like the TOTW made for Australia & has No Chickpeas or Lentils in the TOTW Pacific Stream & in TOTW Sierra Mountain formula’s?? then ask can I have the TOTW formula’s made for Europe.. I have the Australian TOTW formula’s link if you want to see the different TOTW formula’s, when TOTW was changing their formula’s back in 2015 a few of us that are in a face book group called “EPI in dogs” contacted TOTW in America & we told TOTW we have very sick dogs, 1 lady dog had EPI, my boy had IBD & another lady dog had IBS & since putting all our dogs on TOTW Pacific Stream & Sierra Mountain formula’s all our dogs have finally gotten better, (Probably cause these TOTW formula’s have 1 single meat protein, it’s lower in fiber under 4%, uses Potato & Sweet Potatoes, has Probiotics & uses purified water & Kcals per cup are low) we have read all the complaints with the poor dogs in the UK that are eating the new TOTW formula’s most of these dogs have bad Diarrhea from the new ingredients Lentils & Chickpeas, we were told TOTW are adding Garbanzo beans to their Pacific Stream formula’s & Lentils to their Sierra Mountain formula’s, Lentils & Garbanzo beans can cause intestinal stress especially when you have IBD, IBS & EPI, can TOTW please keep the Australian & European TOTW formula’s the same without the added Lentils & Chickpeas??? then TOTW contacted me & said they will be keeping the TOTW formulas the same & they will not change these 2 formula’s that are imported to Australia & European countries…… we were all sooo HAPPY & thanked TOTW for doing this plus I think the TOTW veterinarian Dr’s agreed with us & they knew we were right that Lentils & Chickpeas can cause Intestinal Stress, I’d rather eat potato or sweet potato then eat taste less lentils or chickpeas Lentils give bad wind pain & you have the farts lol
As you know its very hard finding foods that agree with an IBD dog, people that have never had IBD or have never had a dog with IBD don’t understand & think it’s easy just feed a vet diet & the dog will get better, IBD is an awful disease, some ingredients can cause bad wind/gas & dirrahea, all these pet food companies are adding Lentils & Garbanzo beans (Chickpeas) to their pet foods is cause Lentils/chickpeas are high in protein so this puts the protein % up higher so pet food companies are adding & using cheap Lentils & Chickpeas now to their pet foods, when we read the Protein % on a kibble bag it doesnt say meat protein % or plant protein % separately, the protein % & is both meat & plant protein & people see a high protein % & think its all meat protein but it isnt..

“Earthborn Holistic” have a new formula out called Venture, Rabbit Meal & Pumkin, EH write the protein % from peas, meat & pumkin, in Earthborn Holistic Venture Rabbit Meal & Pumkin formula it says Pea Protein-37% Pumkin Protein-18% Rabbit Meal Protein-40% the only problem with Earthborn Holistic Venture formula’s the fiber is very high around 8-9%, have you worked out does Furby do better on less fiber or more fiber in his diet?? my Patch needs less fiber & Lentils & Chickpeas are very high in fiber….
I wouldn’t worry if the protein is low & is under 25% & that the Sweet Potatoes is first ingredient we have sick dogs just finding a kibble that works is a miracle, I’d try the “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Bison formula first it has teh least ingredients or there’s the “Californian Natural” Chicken Meal & Rice if you dont want to feed teh Lamb Meal & Rice they both have only 3 ingredients, I’ve read alot of people saying their IBD dog is doing really well eating the Natural Balance LID formula’s, then once Furby is doing well you can slowly start adding more fresh cooked meat to his diet, Patch does best on kibbles that have low Kcals Per cup under 360Kcals per cup when he’s eating a kibble that is higher then 380Kcals per cup & higher in Protein after a few days he starts his whinging, crying & lifts his right paw up for me to rub his pancreas/stomach area so I’ve been only feeding him kibbles now that are under 360Kcals per cup now & under 25% in protein, it’s Summer at the moment in Australian & he always doesnt do too well thru the Summer months cause of his environment allergies…..Patch stopped eating the TOTW Lamb formula when we moved, so I saw that as a sign & he was telling me mum I dont like this TOTW no more, TOTW Pacific Stream & their High Paraire formula’s tested very high in Toxins back in August when all the popular dog foods were tested so maybe thats why Patch stopped eating the TOTW also TOTW have changed something in their Sierra Mountain formula, it smells different & the kibble size is smaller, small kibble is a good thing but something is different & Patch kept eating grass after eating his TOTW, so now Im feeding him the “Nutro Essentials” Lamb & Rice formula at the moment
it has Lamb, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Grounded Sorghum, Chicken Fat, I’d rather be feeding him Nutro Grain free, Lamb, lentils & Sweet Potato formula but I know if I feed the thwe better formula we will be up every night 11pm 1am 3am 5am with him with wind pain, diarrhea & him looking for grass, Kangaroo is a good novel protein low in fat BUT Kangaroo is a very rich meat & all the pet foods companies can’t afford to use Kangaroo so they add Lentils, Chickpeas to up the protein % Zignature does it, Zignature Kangaroo formula is very high in Red & Green lentils, then when people dogs start having Diarrhea people think its the kangaroo meat but its the high about of Lentils or Chickpeas the pet food companies have added to their Kangaroo formula, here in Australia Kangroo is in our supermarket cheap pet foods the same with Horse meat, yrs & yrs ago horses were used in Pet Foods now you dont see horse meat in pet foods anymore a few people who have dogs with IBD use horse meat & their dogs are doing really well but I would try adding a carb as well with the horse meat, Furby mighten get diarrhea the Kangaroo protein might be too high for him to handle….

[Susan L]

I have been feeding dogs raw meat for approximately 15 years. Only once has a dog had sensitivity to food or the environment. But I have learned over the years that most dogs can be desensitized, or cured as it were, of most allergies. But it takes time.

The dog with the environmental allergies (diagnosed with blood test) broke out in sores & itched like crazy. I believe it was brought or activated by a rabies vaccination. I soaked the sores thoroughly & rubbed off the scabs to prevent infection. I used TrizCHLOR 4 shampoo which was very soothing. Gave her 1 drop of Thuja for 1 week, followed by 1 week of Silica 30c place on the gum area next to her cheek (retreated her 3 weeks later). I also gave her Livton Liver Cleanse by Standard Process- which can be found on Amazon (for humans & dogs) for 2 months initially. It was so effective I currently use it for 1 month every 6 months on all my dogs.

I switched all raw food to “cool” or ‘Neutral” foods for the sensitive dog with great results. Chicken is warm, lamb & venison the hottest meat. Some sites & vets characterize turkey as a neutral meat, some a cool meat– I have found it fits more accurately in the cool category. Other cool meats are duck, most white fish & rabbit. Pork, eggs, sardines, tuna, tripe, quail are in the neutral category. I also fed leafy & regular veggies from the neutral & cool category as well. (I feed pork raw to all of my dogs & have for years, trichinosis has been bred out of pigs– but if you like freeze it for 2-3 weeks).

It did not happen over night, but after 2 months of treatment & the food change i was able to take the dog back to dog parks which had allergens she tested positive to: Cottonwood trees, grasses etc and she did well– if she later itched it stopped with a bath. After 4 months she can go, roll on the ground, pick up & chew twigs from the trees she tested as “allegic” to and no more problems. Luckily her hair grew back–and she is a bounding, happy, 1 and a 1/2 year old dog with no symptoms of allergies of any kind.

[anonymous]

Zignature whitefish works well for my dogs, before that they did well on Nutrisca, one has allergies (environmental) and the other one has a sensitive stomach.
I use the kibble as a base, I always add a bit of something and a splash of water.

There is a cairn terrier site you may enjoy https://www.cairntalk.net/

PS: I have heard good things about Pro Plan Focus sensitive skin and stomach salmon

[Bridget F]

Do you happen to have creeping charlie in your yard? We had the same problem with our Mini Aussie. I was convinced it was the food… and come to find out it was the creeping charlie. His allergies do not subside until we get snow cover and he doesn’t touch it.

[anonymous]

Grain free diets have become all the rage in the last few years. I suspect this has stemmed from greater recognition of gluten sensitivity in humans. Most pet food companies have jumped on the band wagon following the marketing success of grain free human diets. The truth of the matter is that there are no dog or cat studies showing a health benefit to grain free foods. A myth has been perpetuated that grains are unhealthy. In fact, whole grains contribute vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids and are highly digestible by dogs and cats. Allergies to grains are actually very rare, and only the Irish Setter breed has been demonstrated to have a gluten sensitivity. Many grain free diets substitute potatoes and tapioca, which have less protein, more sugar, and less fiber. And typically these come at a higher cost.

Above is an excerpt from
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/
click on link for full article

Also. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
Science based veterinary medicine

[anonymous]

I think prescription food/therapeutic diet would be best, as your vet has recommended.
Otherwise, ask your vet if this will meet your criteria?
https://www.k9ofmine.com/best-low-sodium-dog-food/ excerpt below
Purina Pro Plan Focus Sensitive Skin & Stomach Salmon & Rice Formula
About: Pro Plan Focus is a salmon-and-rice-based recipe that is designed for dogs with stomach sensitivities or food allergies. Salmon and rice are typically not allergens and most dogs are able to digest this food easily.
Price: $$
Features:
Salmon is the first listed ingredient.
Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients to help promote immune system function
Fortified with omega fatty acids to ensure joint, skin and coat health
Made without any artificial colors, artificial flavors, corn, wheat or soy
PROS: Purina Pro Plan Focus has the least sodium per calorie of any of the five foods recommended here. Most dogs appear to love the taste, and it may also provide some relief from food allergies.
CONS: Additionally, Pro Plan is made without any probiotics to help regulate intestinal function; however, it does include prebiotic ingredients, which can help support any beneficial bacteria already present in your dog’s digestive tract.
Ingredients:
Salmon, Canola Meal, Brewers Rice, Barley, Oat Meal, Fish Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Animal Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Salmon Meal, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Natural Flavor, Inulin, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. J-4449.
Sodium Content:
50 milligrams / 100 Calories

[anonymous]

Take him to the vet. It could be conjunctivitis, highly contagious.
PS: I doubt very much that his condition has anything to do with his kibble.

https://www.vetinfo.com/diagnosing-dog-eye-discharge.html
Dog eye discharge can be alarming to any dog owner. It can be caused by something as simple as environmental allergies or as serious as corneal ulceration. Whatever the cause, eye discharge should be addressed and treated before the condition becomes more serious, causing the loss of vision or possibly the loss of an eye. Tearing and discharge is the canine eye’s way of ridding itself of any irritant that may exist on a day to day basis or a chronic eye problem.
Determining the Seriousness of the Discharge
Ocular discharge can occur gradually or can develop very suddenly in dogs. A general guideline is that the more discharge there is, the more serious the condition of the eye. Other symptoms that indicate the need to be seen by a veterinarian for potential treatment are:
Eye discharge is thick and mucous-like
Eye discharge is yellow or greenish
Eye discharge is bloody
Tissue surrounding the eye is red and irritated
Causes of Eye Discharge
Eye discharge can be caused by any number of irritants. Causes of discharge include, but are not limited to:
Abcess or infection in the upper back teeth
Allergies
Anterior uveitis or swelling of the iris and surrounding portions of the eye
Blepharitis or inflammation of the eyelids
Cherry eye or protrusion of the tear gland of the third eyelid
Conjunctivitis
Deformities in the tear drainage pathway or inflammation, blockage or narrowing of the tear drainage path
Deformities, wounds or tumors of the third eyelid
Dry eye
Eyelashes growing out from the inside of the eyelid, irritating the cornea
Eyelid defects
Glaucoma or elevated interior eye pressure
Inflammation of the cornea
Inflammation, infection or tumor in the soft tissue around the eye
Scratches, cuts or ulceration of the cornea
Trauma to the area around the eyes and nose
Diagnosing Eye Discharge Problems
While a general practice veterinarian has some of the tools required to conduct a canine eye exam, a veterinary ophthalmologist will have the full spectrum of equipment required to conduct a full ophthalmic examination or specialized testing, should they be required. Some of the tests that may be conducted:
A Schirmer tear test, which determines whether tear production is reduced, normal or elevated.
Detailed examination of the canine eye interior, looking for inflammation, bleeding or other problems.
Fluorescein staining, to determine if there is ulceration or erosion of the cornea.
Tonometry, which determines if the interior eye pressure is reduced, normal or elevated.
If indicated, a veterinary ophthalmologist may also require cell analysis collected from gland openings or from the cornea or other eye tissue. Other procedures may also be required to determine if the tear ducts are blocked or if there are underlying systemic causes for the eye discharge.
Some dog breeds are known to have discharge and tear staining from their eyes. If your dog is one of these breeds and the tearing is a concern, have it checked out to ensure there isn’t an underlying problem. If your dog develops discharge, it is important to have the condition checked out, especially if the tearing is excessive, thick, or appears to be infected or bloody. By taking these precautions, you can help ensure your dog keeps his healthy eyesight throughout his lifetime.

[anonymous]

Zignature, for something a bit more reasonable, Nutrisca
I have found that grain free and avoiding potatoes helps.

From a previous post of mine per:
Excerpts (out of context) from article below: https://www.vetsecure.com/veterinarymedicalclinic.com/articles/136
Overview:
Anal sacs are the reservoirs for the secretions of anal glands which are located on either side of a dog’s anus, at approximately four and eight o’clock. These sacs contain liquid secretions from the anal gland, which, in healthy animals, are normally pale yellow-brown to grayish in color. The contents are usually emptied during normal bowel movements, or when a dog is nervous or scared. In most animals, these sacs empty easily. However, some dogs, especially small breed dogs, are not able to empty the sacs properly and become susceptible to anal sac disease.
Transmission or Cause:
The cause of anal sac disease is unknown. Smaller dog breeds, such as Chihuahuas and poodles, are most often affected. Excessive anal gland production, soft feces or diarrhea, poor muscle tone, and obesity also contribute to higher risk of developing anal sac disease. Anal sac abscess tends to occur after an impacted anal gland has become so severely swollen and infected that the anal sac forms an abscess and ruptures.
Prevention:
Expression of the anal sacs every few weeks or months often will help prevent anal gland fluid from accumulating and becoming thickened again. High fiber diets have been shown to help prevent anal sac disease in at-risk dogs, especially those that are obese.

Regarding allergies, it would be best to make an appointment with a board certified veterinary dermatologist for testing/ diagnosis/treatment, if you don’t have good results with your regular vet within a reasonable amount of time.
In the meantime, has your vet recommended a prescription food/therapeutic diet? That may be a good place to start.
Beware of homeopathic miracle cures, forget about mail-in hair and saliva tests (no good).
For science-based veterinary medicine go here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
You can use the search engine there to look up topics.
This site has a search engine too, see my posts.
Good luck

PS: Regarding the blood test via vet, food allergies are rare and food sensitivities tend to fluctuate. Intradermal skin testing done by a veterinary dermatologist is the most accurate. My dog has environmental allergies, her anal gland issues cleared up immediately after she started the prescribed treatment by the specialist.

[Eileen W]

Adopted rescue (Molly) in May and feeding Acana Heritage with my other dog. In the last 3 months, her anal glands have been expressed twice. Her poop is formed but not really solid. I have tried psyllium, pumpkin, pure form, glandex and no real change in stool. Vet has found no medical reason why they need to be done manually. I am seeking a dog food recommendation that is grain free, bird free (no chicken, turkey, duck,etc.), not Acana or Origen. Has anyone had gland issues, made a diet change and found a food that has really worked for them? I have read, on this forum, some correlation between allergies, diet and glands. So, wondering if anyone had an allergy test to help determine best food to try? Thanks!

[haleycookie]

Zignature is ok if your dog has allergies. But for a regular diet too pea heavy for me. Merrick, Orijen, performatrin grain free, are all great brands to try if your dog isn’t sensitive to anything.

[GSDsForever]

Hmmm. I think DFA is having a hiccup/glitch.

I posted to Leslie/OP last night and my post never appeared after a submit/edit-submit. Seeing this, when I tried to re-post (via copy & paste, using browser back button), I received an error message of the system recognizing a duplicate post being submitted.

As the post is still not showing, let’s see if inserting it here works:

Leslie,

Food allergies to barley and peas are not common allergens for dogs.

Aside from home prepared, where you select and control the ingredients, a few commercial diets that don’t include peas or barley are these:

Honest Kitchen — several, either with grain or without (e.g. Fish & Coconut)
California Natural LID — Lamb & Rice, Chicken & Rice
Pure Vita — Duck & Lentils, Venison & Lentils, Beef & Lentils
Canine Caviar — Special Needs, Chicken & Millet/Free Spirit, Lamb & Millet, Duck & Chickpea

But you should be aware that many OTC commercial diets lack adequate cross-contamination quality control, some brands of which have been documented in veterinary literature in testing (e.g. Natural Balance). Checking ingredient lists is not sufficient.

Before you rule out most diets based on these two ingredients, you might wish to have a look at a few links (scroll down to diagnosis) all from veterinary specialists:

What every pet owner should know about food allergies

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/diagnosing-food-allergies-dogs-and-cats-bring-your-case-trial
http://www.vin.com/apputil/project/defaultadv1.aspx?pId=17256&SAId=1&catid=93445&id=4951526

As Susan noted, it is critical to have an accurate diagnosis of food allergy. Most food allergy “tests” are known to be inaccurate and therefore do not meet the current standard of veterinary care.

It’s certainly possible to be allergic to any protein. But in dogs with food allergies (inhalant/environmental allergies being more common than food), the most common allergens are chicken, beef, dairy, egg, wheat, & soy — and now fish and lamb (which used to be alternatives), although less likely.

As a homemade diet can easily be formulated without either of these 2 ingredients, barley and peas, I would recommend you consider this.

[GSDsForever]

Laurie is absolutely correct:

Skin issues are one of the most common health issues for German Shepherds, so much so that vet books reference things like “German Shepherd Pyoderma” for example. Very, very commonplace. These bacterial and other infections typically have an underlying health disorder that is primary.

GSDs are *frequently* are mentioned in veterinary literature among the dogs most commonly suffering allergies. Allergies or autoimmune system dysfunction are known to underlie skin troubles in GSDs.

Laurie, I too believe that a fresh home prepared diet is ideal.

But in a food allergy dog, it’s all about removing the allergen in the diet — whether commercial kibble/wet, raw, or homecooked.

I’m so grateful to have my dog no longer suffering from allergies! She is doing beautifully, is so much more comfortable and happy, and looks gorgeous now. But we had to change diet (food allergies), address inhalant and environmental allergies in care, and she receives Cytopoint injections — multipronged approach.

[GSDsForever]

Susan,

Good catch! Thank you very much for the correction, re Anallergenic vs Ultamino.

I know the one that was proposed to me by the veterinary receptionist was the formula containing hydrolyzed bird feathers — so that must be the one you have referred us to (“Anallergenic,” also by Royal Canin). It’s been so long ago and, as my actual vet and the specialist never recommended it to me, that I’d long since forgotten the formula name.

I’ve just had so much success with the diet my vet and specialist did recommend to me, and w/the multi-prong approach we’ve taken for the care for my severely allergic dog (both food and inhalant/environmental allergies) that what we’ve been doing for the past couple years & the future are all I think about now. Thankfully, my GSD is doing beautifully now!

I imagine this will be helpful to the OP/others who don’t wish to feed hydrolyzed bird feathers as the primary or sole protein source (or at all).

Then they will need to determine whether they find acceptable feeding the hydrolyzed product of “poultry byproducts aggregate,” the particular formula, and from this company.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.
• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[Susan]

Hi Dharlee,
it’s the Royal Canine Anallergenic vet diet that has the feather hydrolysate not the Ultamino vet diet…the “Ultamino” has hydrolyzed poultry by product aggregate it doesnt have any feather hydrolysate….
What doesnt make sense to me is if your dog can handle a meat protein then why would you feed him a no protein all vegen vet diet? why when he doesnt need a vegan diet, he probably has itchy skin from eating a kibble that has a few ingredients he’s sensitive too does the kibble he’s eating now have grains or chicken in it?? this is why I posted my post to tell you I finally found a kibble that’s NOT a vet diet that doesn’t make Patch smell yeasty or itch, he only itches when he gets his seasonal allergies from the environment & you can’t stop environment allergies, he doesnt get his acid reflux or vomit no more & does firm poos I FINALLY found a grain free, single meat protein kibble that works for him & you can too probably find a kibble that works for your boy multiple health problems as well, I know Patch can eat Beef, Lamb, Salmon, Pork & Chicken but he just gets red paws & itchy skin when he eats chicken but the chicken does not effect his stomach or bowel, no diarrhea or vomiting, it’s the high carbs, high fiber & grains in the dry kibbles that effect his stomach & bowel, just remember your vet is NOT a vet nutritionist & probably wouldnt have a clue what will work for your dog, it’s trial & error & she’ll see what works & what doesnt help, like my vet use to say to me, “oh I have a few dogs like Patch & they’re are eating Hills Z/d vet diet & it’s working for Fred, so I tried Hills Z/d & Patch had diarrhea, the soluble fiber was way too high for Patch so I take the Z/d back then vet said I have another dog like Patch & she’s doing OK on Royal Canine HP she’s not 100% but she’s doing better, so Patch tries the Royal Canin HP my poor Patch got red paws, acid reflux, vomiting, nausea, licking his mouth, then Pancreatitis cause it was too high in fat-19% too high in omega oils, it has Soya Oil, Borage Oil, Fish Oil, there’s was way too many omega oils, he cant handle them all….
If you want to feed a vet diet then try a vet diet that has a novel meat protein he hasn’t eaten before like Rabbit, Venison, Duck, Kangaroo, Pork, ask your vet about “Royal Canine” Select protein formula’s, there’s PR-Potato & Rabbit, PW-Potato & Salmon, PD-Potato & Duck dry formula’s or try Hills Potato & Duck or Potato & Venison Hills doesnt use any soy protein in their Hills formula’s but you must realise all these vet diets for skin problems are VERY high in Omega oils like the Dinovite was & will might cause stomach upsets & acid reflux…
If you see your dog suffering after feeding the new vet diet stop feeding it & take it back & get your money back, the vet diets for skin problems will help your boy skin problem but might cause acid reflux, nausea & sloppy poo’s..
Keep us posted with what happens…

[Susan]

Hi Deborah M,
I really understand how you’re feeling & I know what you’re going thru, I took on this dog & I was just his foster carer, I had to take him to vet get him desexed vaccinated meds for all his sores that were around his neck & legs from being tied up then he has his photo put on the Rescue site & adopted out, his name was Patch & he just turned 4yr old in very bad condition, I’ve never seen a rescue dog this bad before I think he wasnt Put To Sleep cause he became the pound favorite, there’s always a few pound favorites, the people who work or volunteer at the pound do everything to get them a home or into rescue before their kill day so they called me (cause they know I love Staffys) to fix him all up & adopt him out but as the days went by he was weeing blood, so off to see the rescue vet, she said looks like he was being used for breeding, so he gets put on vet diet for 6 weeks to dissolve his crystals then he is diagnosed with IBD & Helicobacter-Pylori, Skin Allergies & Food Sensitivities, In the end I adopted him myself, I felt all the people that came out to meet & greet him weren’t listening to me when I said “but he’s sick, he has a few health problems” they’d all say, “Oh he seems fine he’s really happy, he doesnt look sick”, I couldnt handle not knowing whoever adopts him would they continue with his meds etc or would they just give up on him like his old owners did & surrender him back to a pound & he’ll continue to suffer, he just turned 9yrs old last week & it’s been a very hard 5 yrs & the money I’ve spent trying to fix Patch, I even stopped doing rescue for a few years when he was real bad & sick, I couldn’t leave him at home while I was out helping other dogs all day & worrying about him, he does not do well on ANY vet diets they give him bad acid reflux, make his skin itch & smell yeasty cause he has food sensitivities to some grains, gluten corm/maize & beet pulp, he can NOT have any Beet Pulp he gets bad acid reflux, all these things that are suppose to fix & help his stomach & bowel make Patch worse, then finally I started looking for other diets beside these vet diets & FINALLY after trying a few kibbles, I found “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb dry kibble, people in the IBD & EPI face book groups were saying how well their dogs were doing on TOTW Sierra Mountain or TOTW Pacific Stream both are lower in fiber & TOTW uses Purified water, the Sierra Mountain formula just has 1 single meat protein Lamb, has Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, that firm his poo’s up & his acid reflux stopped & his skin all cleared up, cause he wasn’t eating a diet that had ingredients he was sensitive too but he still get his seasonal environment allergies in Spring/Summer so I have to bathed him weekly in Spring/Summer in “Malaseb” medicated shampoo to wash off any allergens on his paws & skin, the Malaseb shampoo realives & stops his itchy skin…. I’ve never found a kibble that helped most of his health problems all at once, a few years ago I started rotating his kibbles between a few different brands kibbles he does well on, I was feeding the Lamb TOTW thru the winter months then a Salmon fish kibble thru the Spring/Summer months but then I seen 2 studies a company thet test dog foods for 130 metals toxins & contaminates alot of these fish kibbles were very high in toxins, so now I prefer to add a tin salmon to his diet instead, for breakfast he gets his TOTW, lunch time he either gets a small cooked meal with 1 spoon salmon or 1/3 cup of “Canidae Pure Meadow”or an Australian salmon kibble, then dinner time he gets his TOTW Lamb again then he gets another small meal 1/3 a cup 8pm so he doesnt wake up early hours of the morning with acid reflux, whenever I try something new if it says add 1 teaspoon then I only add 1/8th a teaspoon & slowley introduce to his diet, I’ve learnt I ned to slowly add any new supplements or kibbles to his diet or I’m up 12am, 3am 5am & poor Patch has diarrhea….

I found Homeopathy, natural healthy foods works the best for Patch & other sick rescue dogs I’ve helped over the years, you’ll be surprised how feeding a simple bland lean cooked meal like turkey, tin Salmon or chicken breast, lean beef, I feed lean pork mince or lean beef mince I make rissoles with boiled Sweet Potato or boiled potato can make a big difference & is heaps better then these dry kibbles, then I slowly start adding 1 teaspoon of tin Salmon in spring water to the cooked meal, just feed 1 small cooked meal & still feed his normal limited ingredient dry kibble for his other meals or if he’s eating a cooked meal already start buying tin Salmon in spring water then drain water put in air tight container & add teaspoon of salmon to the cooked meals, I also buy “K-9 Natural green lipped mussels freeze dried & Patch started with just 1 mussel as a treat around 11am daily now he gets 2 mussels as a treat daily, Mussels are very healthy & help balance their diet,
here’s a link on Mussels https://drsarahbrewer.com/supplements/green-lipped-mussels-health-benefits
are you following “Rodney Habib”on his face book page, he has really good info also follow “Judy Morgan DVM” https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/ click on her Video link look for her “Pancreatitis Diet” & her “IBD IBS Diet” video’s, you can leave out the ingredients you dont want to feed & what I did was just start with 1 lean meat protein mince grounded meat & 1 carb then after I saw Patch was OK I started to add 1 new ingredient egg, then another new ingredient broccoli etc, I make 1/2 cup size rissole balls & bake in oven & boil sweet potatos & freeze in sections & take out the day before, Judy has a 16 yr old dog called Scout, he has a few health problems, she cooks for him & her other sick elderly dogs, Judy shows you how to balance the diet with healthy ingredients, I don’t bother balancing every single meal, I just make sure he’s getting his Omega 3 fatty acids for his skin & stomach, the Dinovite would be very high in Omega’s for the dogs skin my Patch can’t take fish oil or fish oil in kibbles he gets bad acid reflux, so I supplement his omega fatty acids thru foods instead, I add salmon, freeze dried mussels, roasted Almonds a treats I bite & eat 1/2 a almond & Patch gets the other 1/2 of the almond just start off slowly just give 1/2 a almond for 1 week see how he goes, they need 3 almonds a day, read the link I posted above, the health benefits from freeze dried mussels for skin, stomach, joints, brain etc

Have you tried “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Skin, it has Hydrolyzed Salmon or
“4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach it has just Potato & Egg as only ingredients 4health is sold at Tractor Supply shops only, it’s worth trying a small bag & ask is it money back guaranted if my dog wont eat it?? I always just say Patch wont eat a kibble when he gets his diarrhea & I need to take back the kibble its easier….
You know your dog best so do what you feel will works best for your boy… Good Luck

[GSDsForever]

P.S. To Deborah —

Sharing this anecodote in case it makes you feel better, not alone in your assessment of Royal Canin’s Ultamino:

In the midst of my vet and I, also the specialist, trying to come up with a diagnostic plan for my dog when my dog was still struggling terribly with allergies (there’s light at the end of the tunnel and we’ve now reached it), the receptionist at the multi-vet practice mentioned, suggested trying Ultamino. She specifically mentioned this “bird feathers food,” said it was hydrolyzed, an allergy food that could really help and a couple clients were using it. She truly meant well. I knew that and so I thanked her.

On the way home though I thought, you have got to be kidding, what will they (manufacturers/dog food companies) come up with next, yuck, not what I have in mind for providing the most high quality ingredients diet for my beloved dog! And I laughed, saying to my dog in the car: “You’re very lucky. Your mommy loves you too much to feed you bird feathers! You are soooo not going to be eating this. Don’t worry. It’s not happening.” LOL

At home, out of curiosity and respect for the vet practice generally (& advances in science/evidence based diets), I looked it up, investigated it, and had many additional problems with its ingredients and overall formulation. They just do not meet my health & quality standards. And I remain unimpressed by their concept of hydrolyzing this specific primary protein source.

But neither MY general vet there nor the specialist ever recommended to me this food. For that reason, I never needed to consider it (which I would have) or discuss it with my vet or the specialist. Instead, they recommended multiple other diets and equivalent alternatives.

But if they had recommended to me, I would have had no problem at all raising each and every concern I had with the food. And I know that I would have been on solid ground doing so and trust that we would have had a good respectful discussion.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[GSDsForever]

Wow, lot of sharply divergent information, strong opinions, values, and emotions in this thread!

I really feel for you Deborah. I can tell 100% that you love your dog very much, have been through and still are going through a lot, want and try to to the right thing — and wish to be respectful of your vet and others here & elsewhere.

If I met you in person, I’d really love to sit down and just talk it through supportively.

There’s so much in this thread to comment on. I’m going to presume, benefit of the doubt, that even where we disagree, that all here intend to be respectful and are motivated by sincere belief that they are giving you the best advice for your dog to be well. I wish to do the same.

1)I don’t like/believe in/recommend Dynovite. I just don’t think it’s this amazing product or expenditure to accomplish what you/others want. I think it’s a gimmicky & an overhyped, overpriced product that is very trendy, convenient, readily available, & well-marketed to take advantage of people and their pets.

I would eliminate it and start from scratch with a quality food. Supplement as needed.

2)Royal Canin Ultamino — aka the hydrolyzed bird feathers food

I 100% hear you & support you, agree with not wanting to feed this food. That SHOULD be okay. Honestly. Why? Because there absolutely are alternatives to it and the science/feeding strategy behind it is NOT unique on the market.

Here’s the thing: a diet of hydrolyzed protein + very limited other ingredients, starch (no protein allergen), pure fats IS hypoallergenic, meaning LESS likely to trigger allergic food responses and/or food intolerance reactions. So that *type* of diet recommendation from a vet is a valid one.

That said, THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL OR NECESSARY OR BENEFICIAL about feeding specifically bird feathers or “poultry byproducts aggregate” as the protein source. It’s the hydrolyzed aspect of the protein ingredient that is key to hypoallergenic status. If your vet did not explain it well to you, food allergens are proteins, and a hydrolyzed ingredient has the protein (the allergen) broken down into much smaller components that are less likely to trigger the body’s recognition of the ingredient and allergic response.

Other hydrolyzed diets, besides this one, may be fed. Other equally good options for feeding allergic dogs include limited protein, limited ingredient diets that exclude what your dog is allergic to if that is known or strongly suspected.

Sometimes this is rather simple. In a dog that has eaten the same diet of chicken its whole life, for example, merely switching to a fish based food can work. When a variety of foods have been fed, with no relief/allergies continued, a novel protein limited ingredient diet is fed. “Novel” here simply means whatever YOUR dog has not had before, not anyone else’s. It is critical here that the diet you select has pristine quality control, takes rigorous steps in manufacturing or home preparation, to avoid cross-contaminating the diet with ingredients not listed on the label. Especially when it is not known what all your dog has been exposed to and may be allergic to, it may be best to to avoid the current known top allergens for dogs: chicken, beef, eggs, dairy, soy, wheat, corn — and now also fish, lamb (after these have become no longer “alternative” foods but commonplace to feed). For dogs that have been exposed to everything under the sun, a really unusual protein can be used (e.g. kangaroo, if elk/venison has been fed).

A word of caution regarding OTC kibbles, cans, dehydrated/etc. products: In an OTC product vs alternatives of vet prescription commercial diets or homemade, you need to do your homework — research the food and ask pointed questions of the manufacturer and consider the actual plant that makes the food. Most people don’t do this, aren’t aware of the problem (trust the label too much) and many OTC commercial foods, including so-called limited ingredient diets, fail such cross-contamination quality control and therefore fail to provide relief (because the allergen is still being fed but not listed on the label). For a severely and genuinely allergic dog, this can be a nightmare — as tiny amounts can trigger the allergic response.

I do find it odd — and perhaps I am missing something here — that your vet is proposing and insisting (as you say) upon this one food. That doesn’t make sense to me — not on any scientific, research & evidence, best practices basis — purely from what you’ve said here.

What if this food stopped being manufactured tomorrow? What if it were recalled and therefore could not be recommended (temporarily)? What if your dog hated it and refused to eat it?

Surely there are other foods you could purchase to accomplish the medical goals here. Surely you could also feed an appropriate homemade/home prepared diet. This leads me to my next part . . . .

3)Vet-Client Relationship and Recommendations

A good veterinarian-client relationship is one of mutual respect and two-way dialogue. That dialogue includes both sides considering and addressing what the other is saying. Both sides may raise valid points that are worthy of consideration, understanding, discussion.

This means mutually asking and answering questions as necessary and respectfully, patiently making decisions TOGETHER in the best interest of the dog. Basing decisions upon careful consideration of facts and evidence, where things are explained and understood, still involves two way discussion. Some respect for the *values* of the pet owner, should be accorded by one’s vet, not to mention any actual fact based knowledge that a pet owner may have.

As an example, I have expressed to my vet(s) that, aside from concerns about ingredient/formulation quality, I am not comfortable on ethical grounds (including documented animal cruelty discovered in feeding trials) in supporting a particular major dog food manufacturer. Both vets (over the years) I expressed this to were very respectful and open to alternatives selected together. One vet shared that she did not know about the issue and asked me further about it because it disturbed her too. (Vets are busy and, like all people, don’t hear about/read everything and miss things.)

Similarly, my vet and I *discussed*, *considered* Apoquel (which you said you use) and Atopica for severe, unrelenting allergies and I ultimately rejected both after researching them. He was fully respectful of that. He never was pushy about either or any other course of action proposed. Later, when Cytopoint was recommended, I did choose to use this (again based on my research and discussion with the vet/vet staff) and have had great results.

I appreciate that you like your vet otherwise, find her to be “nice.” But it sounds like more two-way discussion should be happening and alternatives considered.

Conversely, as with human doctors, I strongly believe it is important that people see a vet that they trust — and then proceed to trust in what they say. By this I mean not that clients simply blindly and without discussion automatically do every single thing that their vet suggests or recommends, but that they seriously consider and respectfully attend to their recommendations, ask questions, try to understand, and reach good decisions TOGETHER. It’s a better course of action to propose major changes to one’s vet first, consider what she has to say & discuss, then take action than the other way around.

If a client cannot trust her vet (or human doctor) or cannot have full, open discussion with them, then why would that client see that vet (or human doctor). And yet I know many people who do exactly this — and it is probably a frustrating experience for both sides.

I see this come up, with dog owners I talk to, with vaccination schedules, heartworm prevention, and diet (including especially raw or homemade diets). And yet all of those topics are important and ones I expect to be able to discuss openly with my vet in full — and I do. If I can do it, you can do it.

Without being there, since you like your vet, it sounds to me *possibly* that either more time needs to be spent with you on this topic or you might need to be more assertive, vocal yourself and ask questions — ask why just this food, what are alternatives, what about this or that food (why or why not), what about a trial on a different one, what about a homemade vet supervised diet (using a consult service w/veterinary nutritionist if necessary), and be just as persistent as she has been. Get the answers you need to make the best decision for your pet, based on multiple options and good information.

***IF*** you’re just going to your vet because she’s close by, out of habit/length of time seeing her with your pet and hesitant/uncomfortable leaving her for a new one, because she’s “nice” (even caring), but are NOT ultimately getting what you need from her medically — are not able to have a full & open discussion with her, have all your questions & concerns addressed, receive alternatives and options — then I would see a different vet.

4)If your dog has more food intolerances, GI reactions to overall formulations, like too rich, etc., a sensitive digestive system more so than actual allergies, then there are foods very good for that that I would explore. These differ somewhat from strict allergy diets. Was your dog diagnosed with allergies or just sensitive tummy/touchy digestive system or food intolerances? Was a specialist consulted by your vet?

Some foods appropriate to sensitive digestive systems are just bland and very moderate, conservative in overall nutrition profile/guaranteed analysis, and low residue (meaning highly digested and low poop).

I’ve known people to switch from diets marketed explicitly for this purpose, prescribed even, to Fromm’s (and Fromm is a great company, with an excellent longterm record of quality control) Whitefish formula and it’s been exceptionally well tolerated by their dogs. It’s bland, not rich, and has quality ingredients. That’s just one example. There are other choices. Wellness Simple and Nutrisource come to mind, also Go! Sensitivity and Shine.

5)Homemade diets

If this interests you, your vet should be helping you and supportive, as it can be done.

Your vet should be able to provide a free, published balanced diet appropriate to your dog’s needs/condition, minimally consult (sometimes this is free) with a specialist colleague, OR full blown consult (for a fee) or outright refer you to go see a specialist in nutrition who will design you a diet or multiple meals you can safely feed.

Similarly, regarding that itchy skin/allergies, your vet can consult and discuss a case — often for free — with a veterinary dermatologist (specialist) or outright refer you to see one. Has your vet done this? If not, why not? If you have reached the point that you are trying so many diets, things, experienced such a range of symptoms over time, dog taking Apoquel, your vet insisting upon RC Ultamino now, consulting/referral would conform to best practices.

If money is really tight and you don’t have dog insurance (or coverage), there are both free board certified veterinary nutritionist/other credentialed authored single diets available on the web as well as one entire book of therapeutic veterinary diets (from UC Davis) now freely available on the web.

Personally, if you want to go the route of an actual veterinary nutritionist helping your dog, I would recommend (for many reasons) a long distance consult with board certified veterinary nutritionist Susan Wynn (unless you are in Atlanta, in which case you can see her in person). It’s about $300. She will consult with generalist vets long distance, which not all veterinary nutritionists will do.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by GSDsForever.

[Tonia M]

My 17 year old Italian greyhound is allergic to corn, soy, potatoes, sweet potatoes, green beans, rice, pes,carrots,yeast, peanut butter, and a few more I can’t think of off the top of my head. I inherited her from my aunt when she passed. She was always sick her entire life. She wouldn’t eat for several days and when she did she would throw up or have diarrhea. So when I had her tested. She spend three days with a specialist and it was determined she had a list of food allergies, irritable bowel, and crones . I have struggled over the past few years to get her to eat. She basically lives on one or two ingredients . Then she will stop eating during her ibs flare ups. I don’t know what to feed her. She suddenly started eating her poop today. Yet won’t eat anything I offer.

[Susan]

Hi Cathy,
what is he eating?? I’d start with a diet change, when my boy eats carrots & tapioca he gets itchy yeasty ears & shakes his head/ears, change what your feeding him to a limited ingredient single novel meat protein diet something totally different to what he’s eating at the moment, feed a meat protein he hasn’t eaten before & see how he does…
What are you testing for? food allergy testing isnt 100% & can give false positives…
There’s a really good Face Book group called, “Dog issues, allergies & other information support group” a Dermatologist Dr Karen helton Rhodes frequents the group & has her own f/b page called “Canine Skin Solutions” & helps out…

[anonymous]

No, you don’t have to wait. You can make an appointment with a board certified veterinary dermatologist, today. It may take up to 3 months to get an appointment anyway.
Please read my posts /forums/search/environmental+allergies/
PS: Beware of miracle homeopathic cures and such. And, don’t trust Dr Google.

[Cathy B]

My 18 mo old Lab was diagnosed with probable allergies when I took him in for an ear infection. Vet said they won’t test til he is 2 for cause. Will consult with vet during follow up but do I just let him go through this for 6 more months before even starting to help him? Symptoms are not severe but still.

[GSDsForever]

Cathy,

I agree with suggestions to feed a variety of food, ingredients across a lifetime. I also believe fresh foods, homemade feeding with high quality ingredients you can select/control can provide the best diet.

The idea behind these two things is the same as striving for optimal health in a human by eating a variety of healthful foods with various health benefits — nutrients, antioxidants and anti-cancer, immune system boosting foods, etc.

The truth is we really don’t know enough about all the things that produce more long lived, optimally healthy dogs. We don’t know nearly enough — and the research is far more limited in dogs & cats than for humans — about all the things that contribute to increased cancer risks or that prevent cancer, despite the very high percentage of dogs & cats that get cancer and that die from cancer. Personally, I incorporate what I know from human information on diet for cancer preventative, immune system boosting, anti-viral, etc. foods and environmental toxins and from past experience with a veterinary cancer specialist.

As Haley noted, dogs can and do commonly develop allergies to repeat insult/exposure of foods. There is veterinary research to support that.

With my food allergy dog, I currently cautiously add hypoallergenic health-promoting wholesome fresh fruits, veggies, quality oils to my dog’s commercial LID (novel protein) dry + canned diet. I needed to get her stabilized and healthy first.

But I eventually plan to move toward feeding, under veterinary specialist supervision & direction, a rotating mix of balanced homemade meals. If that kind of thing interests you, the vet nutrition specialist (board certified) I would recommend is Susan Wynn; she can consult with your vet long distance.

As far as how quickly to switch, that really depends on the individual dog and breed (some are touchier digestively than others), whether you are switching to a much richer (much higher protein and/or fat) food or one with very different or special ingredients that might cause upset, etc.

[haleycookie]

A healthy dog should be able to easily switch between brands in my opinion. Switching brands can help avoid recalls if you’re particular brand has one so you have different options. Also helps prevent allergies further on as feeding the same protein for prolonged periods of time can cause allergies to that particular protein. I rotational feed my cats (a bit different I know) and it’s mainly because my female cat won’t eat the same food twice usually. Especially canned food. So she gets a different kind of Can everyday. As far as kibble goes I switch around mainly whole earth farms, natures variety raw boost, and performatrin. I don’t really like whole earth farms dry for cats but she likes it. Those are the only three foods she’ll eat with any kind of passion. They never have diarrhea or any other issue. I don’t feed fish really and they all have super soft plush fur. I brush their teeth as well. Kibble doesn’t clean teeth just a little fwi if you didn’t know.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by haleycookie.

[GSDsForever]

Ivy,

This article from a board certified veterinary dermatologist (specialist), discussing itchy dogs and allergies might also be helpful:

http://beta.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?pId=17256&catid=93480&id=4951526

Good luck!

[GSDsForever]

“Vet says he’s too young for allergy.”

I have had multiple dogs with allergies, food and otherwise, been advised by specialists and excellent experienced general practice vets, as well as done my own judicious research and I have NEVER heard that from any source. I would question that.

While my current dog has had the most challenging to figure out and overcome allergies I have personally encountered, she is now doing exceptionally well. We (my vet & I) have used a multi-pronged approach for this dog that has both food and environmental allergies.

I agree w/anon — see a different vet, get a second opinion and get an accurate diagnosis based on good, solid veterinary knowledge and experience, a specialist as needed. Ask for a referral to the specialist if necessary. A good generalist vet should be happy to refer.

Pitlove also makes a good point. Fleas aren’t a big challenge where I live, but I do know that flea bite allergies (even from a single flea when you don’t see fleas, flea dirt) are a major cause of allergies/itching for many dogs.

This is the protocol for my dog, some or all of which may be helpful to your dog if you haven’t tried something (or the combined approach):

1)DIET
Novel Protein (10-12 weeks to see results) Limited Ingredient Diet — homemade or from a company with very strict allergen/cross-contamination AND NOT ONE DEMONSTRATED IN VET JOURNALS TO BE CROSS-CONTAMINATED ALREADY (Royal Canin, Natural Balance, Nature’s Variety/Instinct, et. al.)

— and ABSOLUTELY NO treats, supplements, “real”/”people” food, medicines (i.e. heartworm preventatives), or even chew/dental toys (i.e. Nylabone) that contain the established top food ingredient allergens for dogs (beef, chicken, fish, eggs, dairy, wheat, soy, corn). I treat w/her actual food or low allergen potential real food (i.e. blueberries, green beans, watermelon)

***Because I feed kangaroo — having needed a more unusual, rare protein source — I feed Zignature Kangaroo LID (GF) dry & canned food.

I also supplement, per vet prescription, Omega 3 EPA & DHA at a high, therapeutic/condition treating dose daily for anti-inflammatory effects, plus skin, coat, brain benefits — and I use Grizzly’s Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil in pump bottle.

2)ENVIRONMENT:

a)Frequent thorough bathing w/very hypoallergenic and gentle shampoo & skin soothing, skin repairing/barrier protective, etc. ingredients

b)frequent washing of dog’s bedding, etc. in hypoallergenic laundry detergent

c)frequent vaccuuming (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

d)hypoallergenic wet wipes wipe down of whole dog, especially paws (or dunking/rinsing paws off), after all walks & trips outside (pollen, dust/particulates, etc.)

Finally — consider & don’t overlook your own personal care/cleaning products that may cause allergic responses in your dog.

3)Cytopoint (aka CADI) injections, every 4-8 weeks as needed, seasonally or otherwise

I researched, considered, and rejected two other rx allergy/itch meds, Apoquel and Atopica.

I also researched and considered trials of 4 (recommended #) OTC antihistamines (e.g. benadryl, zyrtec/cetirizine).

I tried the above all in that order, before adding the next step.

We also tried once, but didn’t receive good relief and diagnostic results from a steroid injection — to see if she had seasonal environmental only allergies vs. food/combination.

[Mary V]

Keep in mind honest kitchen is almost all plant. Even the mixes with meat in them are plant based. Not much meat in them. And you see no chunks. Why? It’s ground into powder. Now, maybe it’s so you get the same amnt of meat in each portion. Or…so you don’t see how little meat is in it?
I got this for my cats (prowl) and my dogs as one of my mastiffs has tons of allergies after losing a chunk of stomach and intestines.
Problem is none of my animals will eat honest kitchen. Wasted about $300 bucks.
They LOVE sojos. Which…chunks of actual meat! Also they preferred Stella and cheweys. Both are meat based. Not plant based.

[anonymous]

DinoVite is a scam. Bad side effects have been noted.

For best results see what your vet offers in the way of treatment or better yet, ask for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist for testing/diagnosis/treatment.

See my posts /forums/search/environmental+allergies/

[Lyndsay D]

Good afternoon!
I have a big but little lab/pointer mix puppy on natures variety raw and he has a potato allergy (And a few other allergies) . Finding a no potato crunchy treat is almost impossible.
Does anyone have any ideas where I may be able to find some? or recipes that can be crunchy and satisfying for this pup?
Thank you!

[Susan]

Hi Venessa L,
Stick with kibbles that have only 1 single meat protein with limited ingredients & once you find a few that she likes & agrees with her start rotating them to build up her immune to different ingredients, it sounds like Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food Intolerances like my boy gets, he starts rubbing his bum & mouth & gets red around his mouth/muzzle after eating Chicken, start giving weekly baths to wash off any allergens that might be on skin & coat look for in an anti fungal anti bacterial medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo excellent for red itchy skin, smelly skin/coat, allergies etc I also buy the baby wipes Coconut Oil wipes or the Cucumber & Aloe Wipes Adli’s have the Wipes when they have their sales or I get Huggie baby Wipes & I wipe Patch down after he’s been outside or when we come back from our walks, I know when he starts rubbing his mouth, head, body on my rug he’s itchy so I either bath him or use the baby wipes…
Start keeping an Diary & do you have Pet Insurrance? get some before you tell teh vet & he diganoses your dog with Allergies then I think its classed as a pre existing health problem & not covered so if later you have to see an Dermatologist your covered as Dermatologist are very Expensive….
here’s a really good Face Book group call
“Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/
A Dermatologist frequents the group + other people going thru the same problems as you
Here’s some LID foods to try for stomach/bowel problems (food Sensitivities) & Itchy Skin problems.

* “Natural Balance” limited Ingredient Formula’s read ingredient list for each formula as some of NB formula’s have different ingredients like Chickpeas.

* “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb

“Canidae” Pure formulas or “All life Stages” Large Breed Puppy, Adult Turkey Meal & Brown Rice formula has limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products, scroll down a bit look to your right for “View All” click on page 5.

* “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach, is Egg & Potato
* “4Health” Special Care, Sensive Skin, has Hydrolyzed Salmon https://www.tractorsupply.com/landing-pages_brands_4health-special-care.html

[Susan]

Hi Cody,
start doing your own research so your puppy has a good start to her life, follow “Rodney Habib” on his facebook page https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib & watch his new free 5 part video’s “The Truth About Pet Cancer” scroll down Rodney’s F/B page & find Episode 2 & 3 & WATCH these episoes PLEASE so your pup has the best start to her life, also feed 4 smaller meals a day “Canidae” has their All Life Stages, Large Breed Puppy Duck Meal formula, or Turkey Meal Brown rice Wet & Dry formula’s.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products scroll down a bit look to your right for
“View All” then click on Pages 5 & 9 for Large Breed Puppy Forumla’s & later when your pup is 6 months old start adding fresh healthy foods to her diet & rotate between different kibble brands so she isnt eating the same food 24/7, Pitbulls Staffys are prone to food sensitivities & skin allergies so get her use to a variety of foods & this strengthen her Immune System, just make sure if she is going to be fed a dry kibble her whole life you rotate kibbles but after watching Rodney Habib video’s Im pretty sure you’ll be looking for healthier food instead of feeding dry processed kibble, I only feed dry Kibble cause my boy didn’t have the best start in his life & now has IBD & cant eat a raw/cooked diet..

[anonymous]

@ Venessa
Sounds like environmental allergies, hopefully mild and only seasonal….. not related to food.
However, I would talk to your vet about a elimination/prescription food to rule out food sensitivities.
If the symptoms continue (or become severe) and do not respond to treatment by your veterinarian within a reasonable amount of time (4 seasons/1 year) I would ask for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist for testing, accurate diagnosis and treatment options.
All commercial foods are at risk for cross contamination of ingredients, the prescription food is the only way to do a true elimination diet. Some good info over here

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

See the comments for a variety of opinions.

[jella]

The vet kindly pushed us to go ahead and send his blood work off to the pet allergy testing labs. He had food allergies that scored real high. After we found a pet food company that made a food for him his stomach problems stopped completely. Might be something to consider. Our dog came back allergic to Barley, Rice, Corn, White Potatoes, Duck, Flax, or (Flaxseeds) Milk, Pork. But if you can’t do this I would just find a good dog food with maybe a couple of good ingredients to try for awhile. Maybe canned pumpkin or sweet potatoes would help his tummy.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by jella.

[InkedMarie]

I’m not positive but I believe white & sweet are two different potatoes, in dog foods.

With his allergies, you need grainfree. If you got him tested (was it blood or saliva), if you have to, use a food with one of the ingredients that are on the low end. I have a dog with suspected food sensitivities and/or allergies but raw solved the problem for us.

[Jacob Knobel]

Hey Melody,

Disclosure: I’m one of the founders of a new dog food company called YaDoggie.

We have a Limited Ingredient Turkey & Pea recipe that we sell that works very well for dogs with sensitive stomachs. The type of protein really doesn’t matter too much — each dog has their own preferences and allergies, and many times, if trying a bunch of different proteins hasn’t helped, it’s usually some other common ingredient in the food that is causing the issues. That’s why trying a Limited Ingredient food, no matter the protein, can be helpful.

We offer a first bag for $1, shipped to your door, so it’s super easy to try and see if you like it. We’d love your feedback.

P.S. – Use my code KNOBEL to get a $20 credit when you sign up.

[anonymous]

@ Charles B
Two weeks without pruritus is excellent (regarding the Cytopoint), next time the effects may last up to a month, or more. There are no miracle cures.
Continue the Apoquel if you find that works best.

I bathe my allergy dog every other day, even though her allergies are under control.
However, I only need to use a mild gentle puppy shampoo, also, Malaseb about once a week.
Malaseb is better than Zymox, ask your vet. Entirely Pets dot com has some good prices on the Malaseb.
Get the 1/2 gallon jug and call it a day!
PS: I have found that keeping the hair trimmed short helps, well groomed, easier to spot sores and rashes. Give the dog a buzz cut about every 2 or 3 months. #5 blade for the body, #10 blade for legs/paws , careful around the face and ears, tail, behind.
If you can afford routine a routine groomer, even better.
However, you may want to avoid vaccines other than what is required by law, due to your dogs allergies.

[anonymous]

@ Paula M

For the best testing and treatment options consult a veterinary dermatologist.
Allergies are complicated. You need the expertise of a specialist. Intra-dermal skin testing is the only accurate way to identify environmental allergies.

In the meantime, if seeing a veterinary dermatologist is not an option right now, I would work closely with your vet, diet recommendations and all.
However, the symptoms you describe often indicate environmental allergies, food allergies are rare.

There are new treatments available now. Have you asked your vet about Apoquel? Cytopoint? Prescription shampoo? Prescription ear drops?
Often prednisone and such meds are necessary for brief periods to stop the suffering the dog is experiencing, give the dog’s system a rest and decrease the risk of infection.

Do not apply anything to her skin or use homemade remedies to treat her ears unless your vet has prescribed or approved. You could make the infection much worse.
/forums/search/environmental+allergies/ (see my posts)

[michelle l]

Hi Sade, you may try this

dog food it is meant for dog with allergies. since you mentioned that your dog is allergic to chicken this lamb flavor might be good to him

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by michelle l.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by michelle l.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by michelle l.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by michelle l.

[Susan]

Hi Charles,
are you using a medicated shampoo like “Malaseb Medicated shampoo” ? the Malaseb shampoo kills the yeast on skin & paws & can be used daily, also puts moisture back into the skin paws etc, my boy gets the same yeasty paws, skin ears etc Malaseb is excellent ask vet or sold on Amazon, my boy has food sensitivities & seasonal environment allergies, the 2 normally go together, I did food elimintaion diet & worked out what foods he’s sensitive too. Have you looked into feeding a RAW diet?? alot of these dogs do heaps better when the kibble is stopped & feed either freeze dried raw or pre made raw diet…

A really good facebook group to join that has a Dermatologist “Karen Helton Rhodes” is calleed “Dog Issues. Allergies & other information Support Group” Karen also runs her own site called “Canine Skin Solutions”
Another thing I use is creams every night I check Patches paws, around his mouth & the white fur above this left eye & if it looks red & is itchy I apply Hydrocortisone 1% cream that Patches vet recommend I use, I also get a cotten tip & put the Hydrocortisone cream inbetween his paws & pads, then when he wakes in the morning his paws skin around mouth is all clear & pink not red then I use “Sudocrem” its for Dermatitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash, Pressure Sores, the Sudocrem acts as a barrier & protects the skin & paws from environment allergies, it’s excellent, if you live America look on Amazon & Ebay….

These’s a new drug made by the same makers that make awful Aqopuel, it’s called “Cytopoint” injections, works in a different way to how Apoquel works
Cytopoint injections blocks the receptors where Apoquel blocks the reaction from the allergen receptors, Apoquel doesn’t work on yeast problems. There’s suppose to be less to no side effects & people are saying Cytopoint is the new mircale drug & they have itch free dog now… if you join the Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support group you can learn more, a few people use the Cytopoint injection thru Spring & Summer months then stop thru the cooler months when the evironment allergies arent bad.

I have found giving weekly baths using the creams & a diet high in Omega 3 fatty acids I’m keeping Patches allergies under control & make sure he’s not eating any foods he’s senstivie too I also rotate his foods so he’s not eating the same diet 24/7, I found Patch started to react more when he just ate the same kibble 24/7 especially with his IBD,
my boy also has IBD brought on from food senstivities….
I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & look at “Canidae” Pure formulas the Pure Sea & Pure Sky is suppose to be really good for dogs with Allergies its high in Omega 3 fatty acids, I rotate & feed the Canidae Pure Wild Boar cause the fat & protein is a bit lower then the Pure Sea, Patch does well on Lamb, Pork & Kangaroo, feed him some chicken & he starts itching within 20mins & carrots make his ears itch then yeasty smell ears..
There’s Dr B’s Barf Kangaroo Raw, its Australian but its sold in America you could do 1 meal raw the other meal kibble.. put the cream on those paws & watch them stop itching..

[anonymous]

PS: The fact that the dog had a positive response to Apoquel is diagnostic.
Apoquel is prescribed for environmental allergies, not food allergies which are rare.
Talk to your vet.

[anonymous]

Sounds like environmental allergies, there is no cure, however there is effective treatment.
It’s not cheap, why do you think the dog was given up,
Make an appointment with a veterinary dermatologist, asap.
Zignature is a good food, but, food can only do so much and has no effect on environmental allergies.
Per the search engine here /forums/search/environmental+allergies/
See my posts

If you don’t have good results within a reasonable amount of time, or the symptoms have been going on for 1 year/ 4 seasons without significant relief or the symptoms are severe.
I would ask for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist. There is a BIG difference between a regular veterinarian and a veterinary specialist.
PS: I went back and forth for a year, tried more than one vet with poor results regarding my dog with allergies.
Got positive results after 1 visit with a veterinary dermatologist.
I will cut to the chase, it will cost about $600 to $800 for initial testing, diagnosis, and to begin treatment. Maintenance runs about $1000 a year, ballpark figures based on my dog’s diagnosis and treatment.
If this is not within your means talk to your vet about other treatment options.
There is always the chance that your dog’s allergies are mild, the first step is to get an accurate diagnosis for your dog’s skin condition.

[Charles B]

We have a foster Golden Retreiver, that we just recently adopted.

He came to us in the June timeframe with a skin infection, and ear infections. Yeast present on his skin and ears.

He came to us on Kirkland Signature Chicken dogfood. We switched him cold turkey to Fromm Salmon as our other dog was on it (and they only gave us 4 cups of his old food.) We got put on an anti fungal medication, ear rinsing, ear drops, a powder for his tummy, and some cleaning wipes for 3 weeks. At the end he was all cleared up. We continued to work on his diet as it was still an apparent issued. We tried Fromm Weight Management (fish) and had awful results. He was horrifically itchy to the point of gnawing and needing a cone. We tried Pro Plan Skin Sensitivity Salmon and had an improvement, but it did not settle with his GI. We had an alergy shot and tried several different allergy meds. No luck. We got Apoquel – this worked, and after being on it for a month we backed off. During this time when we backed off, we did more diet adjusting.

Finally we tried Zignature Kangaroo – bingo. Perfect. Minor itches, no digging at his face, chewing his groin etc. Also tried Zignature Venison – ok”ish”, when we got to the end of the bag we were itching.

On the 1st of the month we give our dogs their nexguard. On the 3rd of the month we took him to the vet for licking his rear left foot toe #2-3 raw. Had a bacterial infection near the nail (we had assumed it was a foot injury that he licked over over 1-2 days.) He got an antibiotic, cleaning wipes, and powder.

On the last day of the month we gave him nexguard again and guess what… we are back to a “sick foot” again. So we think we might be allergic to something in the pill and are looking at other options.

But going back to the vet on the 2nd of the month, he shows he has yeast on his paw, and he has started digging at his face again.

I really dont want to put him back on Apoquel until we get his skin issues figured out again.

SO now we are on the Zignature Kangaroo, cleaning the foot daily, and the vet is offering another round of anti-fungal meds.

What else can we do?

[Susan]

Hi Kevin,
I’ve been feeding “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb now 2 yrs with great results, my boy has IBD, Skin Allergies & Food Intolerances to chicken & other ingreients, I’ve tried all the Vet Diets & other foods on the market for 2 long years & finally TOTW was the only food that helped Patches IBD (Sloppy Poos) + his Skin allergies (itchy, smelly paws & skin from food sensitivities chicken), even on facebook groups where dogs are sick Diamond kibbles seem to work the best for these dogs, maybe Diamond as been around longer & understands a dogs needs especially when they are suffering with food sensititivies, diarrhea, itchy skin etc, I don’t know but I read alot of really good results on these F/B groups….. “4Health” is another really good food made by Diamond where I’m reading very good results especially 4Health Special Care range Senstive Stomach Egg & Potatoes has no Chicken…also I’ve had really good results with “Canidae” Pure Formula’s.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products scroll down a bit look to your right & click on “View All” & pages 3 onwards have the start of the Canidae Pure range, grain free limited Ingredients kibbles, have to read each formula as they all vary.

It will all depend on your dog but alot of these really high meat protein & higher fat kibbles which have alot of different meat/organ proteins & ingredients are not agreeing with dogs who have allergies & food intolerances, some of these dogs can’t seems to handle too many different ingredients all at once I have found, so stick with kibbles that don’t have too many different ingredients but have really good ingredients, TOTW Sierra Mountain just has Lamb as the only meat protein, the only other thing I need to warn if you don’t already know is STAY away from fish kibbles as some of these American fish kibbles are 10 times higher in Toxins & Contaminates, if you want to add fish to your dogs diet buy human grade fish that you would eat like tin sardines in spring water, tin salmon in spring water, Freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels are excellent to give as daily treats, don’t feed a kibble that’s has fish in it, these pet food companies wouldn’t be sourcing premium cuts of salmon or whitefish etc they would be buying the cheapest off cuts of fish they can find to use for pet foods & it’s sad, laws need to change so this stops happening & pet food compaines need to start testing all their pet foods & make sure they pass & aren’t 10 times higher in toxins & contaminates & a stamp then needs to be put on the front of the kibble & wet tin foods saying this food has been tested, it will happen 1 day but probably not in our life time ….
another thing once you do pick a kibble pick 2 different brands you’re happy with slowly introduce 1 of them & then start rotating between 2 different brands so your dog doesn’t start reacting to another ingredient in his/her food & he’s not eating the same ingredients 24/7 he has a few different ingredients in his diet, it doesnt have to be too many ingredients as long as he’s not just eating 1 meat protein & say Lentils & Chickpeas in his diet 24/7 for teh rest of his/her life….

[Bobby dog]

Hello Atlas:
My pup was on an Rx food for a month for digestive issues. I transitioned her back to her regular diet with no issues.

I have used Rx diets for my cats as well. I made the mistake of taking one of them off early. His health issue returned not to mention he had to endure more visits to the Vet.

For training maybe single ingredient freeze dried treats would be an option. Some I feed are Nature’s Variety, Stella & Chewie, Grandma Lucy, Vital Essentials, Primal, and Stewarts.

If food is an issue you can never know for sure if an OTC food is free from a protein your dog might react to. OTC foods, even LID or sensitive recipes, might be similar in ingredients to Rx foods, however they are not guaranteed to be free of proteins not listed on the bag as Rx foods are. Completely breaking down the equipment and sanitizing after each batch of food to prevent cross contamination is costly and time consuming. This along with other procedures adds to the price of Rx foods. Here’s an article on the subject:
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/150515a.aspx

If an elimination diet is ever recommended for your pup keep in mind you can also go the homemade route; your Vet would be able to advise you on a recipe. Some articles explaining elimination diets, food intolerances, and allergies:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2499

You can find these articles on “DVM360” the links won’t post just copy and paste the titles in their search:
“The finer points of food elimination trials: A veterinary nutritionist’s take”
“Choosing the right elimination diet for food allergic cases”

I suggest keeping an open mind. I found this site several years ago because my dog had terrible skin and coat issues. I assumed it was his diet, not the case. He’s all healed up and the only maintenance he needs is weekly baths (monthly in the winter) with a shampoo that has specific ingredients, nothing else, just baths. I did move onto other food choices, however I feed him everything under the sun with no issues. Kibble, canned, commercial raw, balanced homemade, grains, grain free, fruits, veggies, common meat proteins, I don’t even transition to new foods. Good luck! 😉

[Susan]

Hi,
I posted a post the other day but it’s not here now??.. Yes go back to just feeding the Natural Balance kibble, what meat protein is in the NB formula he’s eating??
When I rescued Patch he had just turned 4yrs old, I didn’t know what he could eat & what he couldn’t eat & in the end that’s why his 4th vet put him on another vet diet that finally worked & firmed up poos but caused itchy smelly yeasty paws & skin, cause he cant eat Chicken his stomach & bowel is OK eating chicken but he gest Yeasty itchy paw & skin & carrots cause yeasty, itchy, smelly ears, you know Atlas does well on the Natural Balance formula & you know he can eat Chicken & Potatoes so that’s a pretty good start, so he Defently has food intolerances, if his gut was un healthy then he’d be like Patch was when I first rescued him, no matter what he ate he do OK poo’s then he was doing poos with jelly on them or like a condom over the poo (Food Sensitivities), then he was doing sloppy yellow poos (S.I.B.O) that smelt awful, that’s how a “GOOD” vet knows if the dog has either S.I.B.O, IBD, EPI, Food Intolerances…..when their poos are yellow it’s their small bowel that’s not working properly…Patches new vet said lets try the vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue formula it wasthe only vet diet Patchhadn’t tried & finally he was doing smaller firm poo’s & only 2 or 3 poos a day then his vet wanted him to stay on the Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 9-12months to let his stomach & bowel heal as he probably has been doing sloppy awful poos most of his life, that’s why he ended up at a pound I’d say, his owner just didnt care, probably when Patch was Atlas age his owner didnt bother trying to work out what was wrong with him & just kept feeding him ingredients he was sensitive too & that has now caused IBD one of Patches vet said…..

I would just feed the Natural Balance for 1 month NO Kefir as this could have caused the
in-balance in his stomach & bowel, S.I.B.O, this is why you only add 1 new food or supplement at 1 time maybe every 1-2 weeks then you know 100% it’s the new food or supplement you’ve added to diet causing sloppy/diarrhea poo’s…
Look at the ingredient list in the “Kirkland Nature’s Domain” I would start doing an Elimination Food Diet start adding peas to his cooked meal start off slowly under 1/4 of a cup for 2 days then increase the amount of peas if he doesn’t have sloppy poos diarrhea in the 2 weeks chances are he can eat peas, then I would stop the peas & start adding boiled peeled Sweet Potato also for treats start making jerky treats, you know he can eat chicken so make Chicken Jerky, if he can eat sweet potato make sweet potato jerky as well or I was making Pork & beef rissoles, I was buying very lean grounded pork mince or beef mince adding 1 whisked egg & 1 teaspoon chopped parsley mixing all together & making small Pork rissoles balls or making separate beef rissoles, I’d foil lined a baking tray & bake them in the oven, they only took about 10 mins on 1 side then half way I would drain any fat & water & turn the rissoles over then cook another 10mins after you cool the rissoles I freeze, then break up a few rissoles & give as treats or I mashed a few rissole balls with some boiled sweet potato for lunch….
It does take time doing an elimination food diet but in the end you will know 100% what he can & cant eat…

The only other thing you can do is if you see a vet ask the vet can he write you a repeat script for some “Metronidazole” a few months worth to keep at home so if Atlas becomes unwell again or when you start introducing a new kibble you put Atlas on the Metronidazole tablets for 2 weeks while intoducing the new kibble, a few dogs in the Canine IBD group see IBD Specialist & this is what their vet specialist has told them to do, same as Patch in the end I had to so I could change his vet diet, I couldn’t handle him smelly & scratching from the chicken in the vet diet, I’d start him on a new kibble he’d be doing really well, good poos then around 2 & 1/2 months later his poos went yuk & soft again, the vet didn’t know what was wrong was his gut bacteria going out of balance too much bad bacteria again?? vet couldnt work out what was happening was it food sensitivities/intolerances as they can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks to start reacting, but this was 2 months later, this is why your better off starting an elimination food trial & start with adding the ingredients in the Kirkland Turkey & Sweet Potato formula or a kibble you want to feed, I’d start with adding boiled Peas, then Sweet Potatoes, blueberries as treats add to his cooked meal & see how he goes, it will be 3 steps forward 2 steps backwards in the beginning, so make sure you keep a diary, I always look back on Patches diarys when I need to rememeber something……
Patch was doing really really well most of 2016 while eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & having a cooked meal Pork Rissoles & sweet potatoes he was drinking heaps of water maybe 2-3 times a week, vet did all these test they showed nothing was wrong, so vet said it could be pain related so I had introduced “Canidae Pure Wild Boar” then he started whinging after 2months of introducing the Canidae, his poos were bigger & softer on the Canidae in the beginning but got better as the weeks went by plus he was eating TOTW for his bigger meals breakfast & 1st dinner, Canidae was givin for Lunch & a second dinner the Canidae were smaller meals, he was geeting his pain right side Stomach/Pancreas area I thought the Canidae was too high in Kcals it was over 400 Kcals per cup this has happened before with another kibble so I started to introduced a new kibble Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion Lamb then his poos went real sloppy again & smelly he had been eating the same kibbles all Spring & Summer TOTW Canidae no poo problems until the I added the Purina Digestion, Sensitive Stomach cause Patches pain right side, Patches American vet Sue had recommendd I try Purina months before so this is why I tried the Purina, the vet Sue blammed environment allergies & said his immune system has gone into over drive from his allergies & he’s reacting but I think it was more from when I started to add Purina Sensitive Stomach kibble to his diet it had Barley in it, I dont think he does well when the kibble has barley in it or he had an imbalance in the bowel S.I.B.O & they get abnormal amounts bacterica accumulate in the small bowel making their poos go yuk again, something he was eating put his gut/bowel floria out of wack again & causes too much bad bacteria then he starts doing very sloppy poos again, that’s what happens with Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth (S.I.B.O) it happens in young dogs, they can’t put on any weight they stop growing, maybe Atlas has a few Intestinal problems, he has his Food Sensitivities & he might get SIBO as well & the Kefir set off the SIBO again, Metronidazole gets rid of the S.I.B.O & then the gut/bowel is balanced again…..

It’s very hard working out your dog what agrees with him & what doesn’t, I’ve learnt more thru people in canine IBD groups who have been thru all this, there’s a good small F/B group called ” Irritable Bowel Disease & G.I Related Diseases In Dogs UK” group on Face Book, the Amercan Canine IBD group the lady who runs it just pops in & tells everyone to go & see your vet & the poor people have been & seen their vets & they still have no answers what’s wrong with their por dog, I’m noticing over the years there’s a few bad vets in America, I dont think a vet in America has to study as long as an Australian or UK vet does?? cause Patches vet Sue is American & she said when she came to Australia in the late 80’s she had to do another 2 years study to work as a vet in Australia & also in Australia vets have to follow up with yearly courses… Patches really good 2nd vet Simon he did Patches Endoscope & Biopsies, he’s very busy & very hard to see he’s always operating etc he knows heaps about the stomach/bowel, he’s the vet that isnt really into giving dogs PRObiotics to dogs, he said there’s no real scientific proof about PRObiotic work in dogs, but if you think your seeing an improvement he said then give Patch the Probiotics but make sure it’s a dog probiotic that are stored in the fridge, “Protexin Soluble”, I said Probiotics seem to make Patch feel sick, he starts his mouth licking & swollowing but only some days this would happen, then Simon said when it comes to PREbiotics he said yes he has found Prebiotics did help & work on some of the dogs he’s treated… I never saw any real improvement with Patch but I did when he was on “NAS, Digestavite Plus” Powder, its a dog prebiotic with vitamins that balances raw or cooked meals he was eating, I went thru a Naturopath with Patchto put him on a raw diet in te end before I found the TOTW & Canidae kibbles, his vet referred Patch to a Holistic Vet but shewas very expensive $180 a hour, so I saw a Animal Naturopath Nutritionist instead, she cost $60 a hour, she makes the “Natural Animal Solutions” products, the Digestavite Plus Powder has Glutimine, Inulin, Spinach leaf powder, Parsley leaf, Beetroot powder, Broccoli, Green Tea, Grapeseed extract, Ginger, Slipperly Elm, Stem Bark, Milk Thistle, Acacia Powder, then Vitamin B1, B2 B3, B5 B12,D3, Patches poos were beautiful & firm when he has the Digestavite Plus Pawder over his cooked & raw meals….
You can ask the vet about weekly Vitamin B12 injections, the B12 really helps dogs that keep having diarrhea slopping poos..
Just see how Atlas goes just eating the Natural Balance for 1 month then introduce 1 new food to his diet nothing else. Good-Luck he’s your special boy.. I’m rescueing another dog soon, Patch is turning 9yrs old, 20th November…I’m going to make sure she does NOT have any Allergies or Stomach/Bowel problems. sorry about the long posts but there’s too much information to leave out..