That’s fine, we can agree to disagree, and I am not forcing YOU to get recommendations for YOUR dog on this forum. But I do want recommendations for my dog in this forum, and you are welcome to participate or not, whatever you prefer.
And I wouldn’t say I’ve tried their recommendations with poor results…trying the LID food has been working well.Bobby dogMember
Hi Atlas T:
It’s very frustrating when your furries aren’t doing well. If I were in your shoes I would look into a second opinion.
Some other things I would consider are an Rx food and testing again for parasites. Some parasites are not always detected and second or third tests might be needed. I have had very good results using Rx foods for several of my pets. Most were easily transitioned back to their regular diets. A few I had to transition to different OTC foods due to on going health issues, but they healed with the help of an Rx diet.
With an Rx food you are also guaranteed no cross contamination with other ingredients due to the strict manufacturing procedures they follow when producing the food. I have had good results with Purina, Science Diet, and Royal Canin Rx foods. Good luck!!
I have been away for the past few days, and have just caught up on where you are. I have been through all this–stay positive and do not give up. Everything you are describing is consistent with not having enough gut bacteria to digest the new food- my little allergy girl’s gut was so bad I could not even add 4 single kibbles of a new food without her getting diarrhea.
A couple of questions… Did you stop the kefir? How much and when did you give it?
Kefir is basically lactose free so there will not be a “dairy” reaction as many animals and people have to lactose.
I still think you are not waiting long enough before increasing the new food based on the condition his gut has been in. (A 7 to 10 day transition works for dogs with healthy guts prior to a food change-not dogs in the shape that Atlas was in.) When you make a new addition, if he has not been consistently firm for a couple of days prior, then it is only going to make him more runny. The soft and runny poo is a sign he does not have enough bacteria to digest the food properly and when you add even more, it gets worse. Take Atlas back to a 1/4 cup or the new food or just the LID and chicken and potato. When he becomes consistently firm for 3 to 5 days (like you said he was before you started the transition), then add 1/4 cup of the new food. I would wait at least 3 to 5 days after he gets firm to add another 1/4 cup.
I know you need to get Atlas on a large breed puppy food as soon as possible, but I think it will take some time. I suggested the kefir before because you will be able to transition faster with it. You may need to add a couple of tablespoons with each meal to see a difference.Joyce BMember
Sounds like you need to keep his food as simple as possible. Too many changes/additions going on here maybe. If the LID works, keep him on it or find a less expensive one but with the exact same ingredients. For my sensitive dog, lower fat helped alot. Pumpkin, probiotics, yogurt, all that stuff made her poo softer and her problems worse even though I added them very gradually. She can’t tolerate turkey. I would stay with the chicken and sweet potato LID or as close to it as possible. Good luck!
Thanks, all, for chiming in and for your support and optimism.
As of yesterday, I put him back on the Sweet Potato and Fish LID food exclusively. Hopefully that will work well for him for the time being. I’ve also stopped the kefir for now. Once his poo is good for 3-5 days, I’ll start adding kefir in to see how he does. I only want to add one new thing at a time so as to understand what is causing him issues.
It sounds like most of you are suggesting that once his gut heals and gets more good bacteria, he should be able to process other foods. I’m just curious…what makes you think that later on he will be able to transition? Versus there just being things in the other foods that he is permanently sensitive to?
Bobby dog – how long did your pups have to be on the Rx diet before they could transition back to regular food?
And Joyce B – I just don’t think there is another food that has as few ingredients as that LID one and that is cheaper. If you have any suggestions though on how to find it, that’d be great.
And yes to everyone who mentioned getting more vet opinions – I will take him again next week.
My other challenge is that since he is young, we are trying to do lots of training. And to do training, you need to use VERY TASTY treats. And because of his tummy issues, I’ve had to just use the LID kibble as treats, but it’s not very enticing. I’m not sure what else to do!
I posted a post the other day but it’s not here now??.. Yes go back to just feeding the Natural Balance kibble, what meat protein is in the NB formula he’s eating??
When I rescued Patch he had just turned 4yrs old, I didn’t know what he could eat & what he couldn’t eat & in the end that’s why his 4th vet put him on another vet diet that finally worked & firmed up poos but caused itchy smelly yeasty paws & skin, cause he cant eat Chicken his stomach & bowel is OK eating chicken but he gest Yeasty itchy paw & skin & carrots cause yeasty, itchy, smelly ears, you know Atlas does well on the Natural Balance formula & you know he can eat Chicken & Potatoes so that’s a pretty good start, so he Defently has food intolerances, if his gut was un healthy then he’d be like Patch was when I first rescued him, no matter what he ate he do OK poo’s then he was doing poos with jelly on them or like a condom over the poo (Food Sensitivities), then he was doing sloppy yellow poos (S.I.B.O) that smelt awful, that’s how a “GOOD” vet knows if the dog has either S.I.B.O, IBD, EPI, Food Intolerances…..when their poos are yellow it’s their small bowel that’s not working properly…Patches new vet said lets try the vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue formula it wasthe only vet diet Patchhadn’t tried & finally he was doing smaller firm poo’s & only 2 or 3 poos a day then his vet wanted him to stay on the Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 9-12months to let his stomach & bowel heal as he probably has been doing sloppy awful poos most of his life, that’s why he ended up at a pound I’d say, his owner just didnt care, probably when Patch was Atlas age his owner didnt bother trying to work out what was wrong with him & just kept feeding him ingredients he was sensitive too & that has now caused IBD one of Patches vet said…..
I would just feed the Natural Balance for 1 month NO Kefir as this could have caused the
in-balance in his stomach & bowel, S.I.B.O, this is why you only add 1 new food or supplement at 1 time maybe every 1-2 weeks then you know 100% it’s the new food or supplement you’ve added to diet causing sloppy/diarrhea poo’s…
Look at the ingredient list in the “Kirkland Nature’s Domain” I would start doing an Elimination Food Diet start adding peas to his cooked meal start off slowly under 1/4 of a cup for 2 days then increase the amount of peas if he doesn’t have sloppy poos diarrhea in the 2 weeks chances are he can eat peas, then I would stop the peas & start adding boiled peeled Sweet Potato also for treats start making jerky treats, you know he can eat chicken so make Chicken Jerky, if he can eat sweet potato make sweet potato jerky as well or I was making Pork & beef rissoles, I was buying very lean grounded pork mince or beef mince adding 1 whisked egg & 1 teaspoon chopped parsley mixing all together & making small Pork rissoles balls or making separate beef rissoles, I’d foil lined a baking tray & bake them in the oven, they only took about 10 mins on 1 side then half way I would drain any fat & water & turn the rissoles over then cook another 10mins after you cool the rissoles I freeze, then break up a few rissoles & give as treats or I mashed a few rissole balls with some boiled sweet potato for lunch….
It does take time doing an elimination food diet but in the end you will know 100% what he can & cant eat…
The only other thing you can do is if you see a vet ask the vet can he write you a repeat script for some “Metronidazole” a few months worth to keep at home so if Atlas becomes unwell again or when you start introducing a new kibble you put Atlas on the Metronidazole tablets for 2 weeks while intoducing the new kibble, a few dogs in the Canine IBD group see IBD Specialist & this is what their vet specialist has told them to do, same as Patch in the end I had to so I could change his vet diet, I couldn’t handle him smelly & scratching from the chicken in the vet diet, I’d start him on a new kibble he’d be doing really well, good poos then around 2 & 1/2 months later his poos went yuk & soft again, the vet didn’t know what was wrong was his gut bacteria going out of balance too much bad bacteria again?? vet couldnt work out what was happening was it food sensitivities/intolerances as they can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks to start reacting, but this was 2 months later, this is why your better off starting an elimination food trial & start with adding the ingredients in the Kirkland Turkey & Sweet Potato formula or a kibble you want to feed, I’d start with adding boiled Peas, then Sweet Potatoes, blueberries as treats add to his cooked meal & see how he goes, it will be 3 steps forward 2 steps backwards in the beginning, so make sure you keep a diary, I always look back on Patches diarys when I need to rememeber something……
Patch was doing really really well most of 2016 while eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & having a cooked meal Pork Rissoles & sweet potatoes he was drinking heaps of water maybe 2-3 times a week, vet did all these test they showed nothing was wrong, so vet said it could be pain related so I had introduced “Canidae Pure Wild Boar” then he started whinging after 2months of introducing the Canidae, his poos were bigger & softer on the Canidae in the beginning but got better as the weeks went by plus he was eating TOTW for his bigger meals breakfast & 1st dinner, Canidae was givin for Lunch & a second dinner the Canidae were smaller meals, he was geeting his pain right side Stomach/Pancreas area I thought the Canidae was too high in Kcals it was over 400 Kcals per cup this has happened before with another kibble so I started to introduced a new kibble Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion Lamb then his poos went real sloppy again & smelly he had been eating the same kibbles all Spring & Summer TOTW Canidae no poo problems until the I added the Purina Digestion, Sensitive Stomach cause Patches pain right side, Patches American vet Sue had recommendd I try Purina months before so this is why I tried the Purina, the vet Sue blammed environment allergies & said his immune system has gone into over drive from his allergies & he’s reacting but I think it was more from when I started to add Purina Sensitive Stomach kibble to his diet it had Barley in it, I dont think he does well when the kibble has barley in it or he had an imbalance in the bowel S.I.B.O & they get abnormal amounts bacterica accumulate in the small bowel making their poos go yuk again, something he was eating put his gut/bowel floria out of wack again & causes too much bad bacteria then he starts doing very sloppy poos again, that’s what happens with Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth (S.I.B.O) it happens in young dogs, they can’t put on any weight they stop growing, maybe Atlas has a few Intestinal problems, he has his Food Sensitivities & he might get SIBO as well & the Kefir set off the SIBO again, Metronidazole gets rid of the S.I.B.O & then the gut/bowel is balanced again…..
It’s very hard working out your dog what agrees with him & what doesn’t, I’ve learnt more thru people in canine IBD groups who have been thru all this, there’s a good small F/B group called ” Irritable Bowel Disease & G.I Related Diseases In Dogs UK” group on Face Book, the Amercan Canine IBD group the lady who runs it just pops in & tells everyone to go & see your vet & the poor people have been & seen their vets & they still have no answers what’s wrong with their por dog, I’m noticing over the years there’s a few bad vets in America, I dont think a vet in America has to study as long as an Australian or UK vet does?? cause Patches vet Sue is American & she said when she came to Australia in the late 80’s she had to do another 2 years study to work as a vet in Australia & also in Australia vets have to follow up with yearly courses… Patches really good 2nd vet Simon he did Patches Endoscope & Biopsies, he’s very busy & very hard to see he’s always operating etc he knows heaps about the stomach/bowel, he’s the vet that isnt really into giving dogs PRObiotics to dogs, he said there’s no real scientific proof about PRObiotic work in dogs, but if you think your seeing an improvement he said then give Patch the Probiotics but make sure it’s a dog probiotic that are stored in the fridge, “Protexin Soluble”, I said Probiotics seem to make Patch feel sick, he starts his mouth licking & swollowing but only some days this would happen, then Simon said when it comes to PREbiotics he said yes he has found Prebiotics did help & work on some of the dogs he’s treated… I never saw any real improvement with Patch but I did when he was on “NAS, Digestavite Plus” Powder, its a dog prebiotic with vitamins that balances raw or cooked meals he was eating, I went thru a Naturopath with Patchto put him on a raw diet in te end before I found the TOTW & Canidae kibbles, his vet referred Patch to a Holistic Vet but shewas very expensive $180 a hour, so I saw a Animal Naturopath Nutritionist instead, she cost $60 a hour, she makes the “Natural Animal Solutions” products, the Digestavite Plus Powder has Glutimine, Inulin, Spinach leaf powder, Parsley leaf, Beetroot powder, Broccoli, Green Tea, Grapeseed extract, Ginger, Slipperly Elm, Stem Bark, Milk Thistle, Acacia Powder, then Vitamin B1, B2 B3, B5 B12,D3, Patches poos were beautiful & firm when he has the Digestavite Plus Pawder over his cooked & raw meals….
You can ask the vet about weekly Vitamin B12 injections, the B12 really helps dogs that keep having diarrhea slopping poos..
Just see how Atlas goes just eating the Natural Balance for 1 month then introduce 1 new food to his diet nothing else. Good-Luck he’s your special boy.. I’m rescueing another dog soon, Patch is turning 9yrs old, 20th November…I’m going to make sure she does NOT have any Allergies or Stomach/Bowel problems. sorry about the long posts but there’s too much information to leave out..Joyce BMember
Have you tried chewy? You can search for “chicken and sweet potato” on their site and many foods come up in varying price ranges. Or browse limited ingredient foods on their site.Bobby dogMember
My pup was on an Rx food for a month for digestive issues. I transitioned her back to her regular diet with no issues.
I have used Rx diets for my cats as well. I made the mistake of taking one of them off early. His health issue returned not to mention he had to endure more visits to the Vet.
For training maybe single ingredient freeze dried treats would be an option. Some I feed are Nature’s Variety, Stella & Chewie, Grandma Lucy, Vital Essentials, Primal, and Stewarts.
If food is an issue you can never know for sure if an OTC food is free from a protein your dog might react to. OTC foods, even LID or sensitive recipes, might be similar in ingredients to Rx foods, however they are not guaranteed to be free of proteins not listed on the bag as Rx foods are. Completely breaking down the equipment and sanitizing after each batch of food to prevent cross contamination is costly and time consuming. This along with other procedures adds to the price of Rx foods. Here’s an article on the subject:
If an elimination diet is ever recommended for your pup keep in mind you can also go the homemade route; your Vet would be able to advise you on a recipe. Some articles explaining elimination diets, food intolerances, and allergies:
You can find these articles on “DVM360” the links won’t post just copy and paste the titles in their search:
“The finer points of food elimination trials: A veterinary nutritionist’s take”
“Choosing the right elimination diet for food allergic cases”
I suggest keeping an open mind. I found this site several years ago because my dog had terrible skin and coat issues. I assumed it was his diet, not the case. He’s all healed up and the only maintenance he needs is weekly baths (monthly in the winter) with a shampoo that has specific ingredients, nothing else, just baths. I did move onto other food choices, however I feed him everything under the sun with no issues. Kibble, canned, commercial raw, balanced homemade, grains, grain free, fruits, veggies, common meat proteins, I don’t even transition to new foods. Good luck! 😉
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. It’s too much to respond to individually, but please know I read all of the posts and appreciate all of the insight. Susan, I did get a copy of your other post in my email, but I’m not sure why it didn’t know up in this thread.
I’ll give a quick update: Atlas is back on the Natural Balance LID food with a bit of potato and chicken mixed in. His poop is getting much better. If it continues like this for several more days, I’ll try adding in some kefir and then some veggies to see what he can/can’t handle.
I’ll keep you all updated!Debbera SMember
Hi Atlas, If your pup has IBD, it seems like the normal vet advice is the prescription foods that you tried. I’m going through the exact problem now with my 8 yr old Boxer. She hates the food and still has mucus/bloody soft stools. I was desperate and found this blog from a women that had a problem with her dog. She thinks it started with dewormers. Anyways, Here’s her blog:
I’ve been following her advice and have my dog on Orijen Six Fish, however the specialty pet store suggested ACANA – Freshwater fish formula, which was more reasonable priced, comparatively. It’s made by Orijen, and has 4 different fish proteins instead of six. I also purchased a prebiotic, which helps colonize their own good bacteria, unlike a probiotic, that is replacing the bacteria. I ordered some good digestive enzymes and probiotic from Mercola.com
Anyways, my vet is very open to trying and working with different diets. He had a client that switched to a fish based food and it worked, so it gave me hope.
Sometimes I worry that some vets that sell the prescription diets are pushing that to make money. So, since my Boxer was still experiencing the symptoms on the prescrip diets, I felt like I didn’t have anything to loose. However, getting a firm diagnosis is essential. We’ve done a full GI panel, and ultrasound to correctly diagnose my Boxer.
I’ve been dealing with this since August, so I feel your pain. Seems like my life has revolved around my dogs poo for a long time! Good luck and hope you find something that works, soon.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Debbera S.
Please be careful feeding fish dog foods, the brands & formula’s you have mentioned have tested 10 times higher the recommend dose for toxins & contaminate’s when these fish formula’s were tested both times the is yeay April & August both fish formula’s have come back very high in toxins & contaminates…..google “*******************” & the **** links will come up…
brands like Trudog, Great Life, “Canidae”, Dogswell, I & love & you, Pet Pride Kroger, Buckly Liberty all rated very well in both pet food testings…. it was their chicken, lamb & Beef formula’s…. The Fish formula’s seems to be very very high in toxins, no good for a dog with IBD, IBS or any health problems…
This happened with my IBD boy, his vet & I couldn’t work out why Patch was doing really then after I being introduced to American fish formula’s then around 3 months while eating these fish formula’s he would go down hill with all 3 different American fish brands he was eating, they didn’t have any ingredients he was sensitive too so it wasnt food intolerances cause I had done an food elimination diet the 12 months before & knew what ingredients he was sensitive too & avoided these ingredients, so we couldn’t work out what was wrong, then this year I read about some fish pet food being very high in toxins & seen these 3 brands/formula’s in the worse top 10 formula’s first & second testing list, they were 10 times higher the recommended amount for toxins & contaminates, I felt so bad I was poisoning my boy slowly……..now the only fish Patch gets is human grade Australian caught or NZ fish that I eat & his “K-9 Natural” freeze dried green lipped Mussels from New Zealand, he’s been doing heaps better with his IBD now & hasnt had another IBD flare since I’ve stopped feeding American fish kibbles……
When a dog is having mucus bloody soft poos normally means she is sensitive/intolerant to an ingredient in the formula she’s eating, Patch was doing condom poos I called them, looked like a condom was wrapped around his poos, or jelly poo’s, no vet diets worked for him, alot vet diets are higher in insoluble fiber & very low soluble fiber making poos slop cow pattie poo’s, later I worked out this is why some of these vet diet formula’s were not working & helping Patches IBD, vets don’t really know whats in these vet diets, I knew more then all of Patches vet knew about the vet diets they were recommending, then finally I read TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula’s were working for a lot of IBD & EPI dogs, these formula’s both are lower in fiber at 3%max but the TOTW Salmon formula kept making Patch vomit straight after he ate the salmon kibble then he was eating it again, I didnt know this cause I wouldn’t be home some times but I kept seeing a wet patch on the carpet then the cat dob him in one day she was burying nothing on the carpet that’s when I clicked, vomit was there & Patch was quickly eating the un digested kibbles back up leaving a wet spot on carpet, his poos were excellent within 2 days nice firm solid poos, then this year I seen this fish brand foods that made him vomit was on the highest toxins 2nd list testing & finally worked out why Patch was going down hill when he ate fish kibbles..
If you keep having problems with your girl then a cooked diet is probably best to feed even if 1 meal is cooked & 1 other meals are kibble, a few of the IBD/EPI groups the dogs are doing really well the “4health” Sensitive Care, Sensitive Stomach formula it has just Egg & Potato so very easy to break down & digest or the 4Health Sensitive Skin formula it has pea flour & hydrolzed Salmon, so the hydrolyzed salmon has been broken down for the dog, so very easy to digest good for diogs with IBD, in both formula’s the fat & protein isn’t really high, alot of dogs with IBD need lower fiber & protein diets & 4Health has all this… worth a try if your girl still not well, also the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior is really good for senior dogs & has all the supplements needed for aging dogs.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.
Thanks Susan, I’ll keep all your suggestions in mind. We’re only 3 days into our new Fresh Fish diet and things are looking better than the prescription diets. I’m really trying to avoid cooking for my dog, I barely have time to cook for myself!
My dogs do best on a fish based kibble, Zignature whitefish or catfish, as a base.
Glad that you found something that works.
However, don’ t rule out prescription foods, they have helped many dogs
I pay no attention to Mercola, I needed my first root canal a few years ago, I was in a panic because something I read on his website implied that root canals cause cancer!
I told my dentist and he said “That is not true.”
I am so glad that I listened.
Thanks all for chiming in. My update is that we are on day 6 of just the Natural Balance sweet potato and fish, and his poo is excellent! I’m also giving him kefit as of 2 days ago, and so far so good. I don’t necessarily see any improvements as a result of it, but it’s not causing any issues either.
He has a vet appt next week with another vet, we’ll see how it goes. One thing I’m considering is trying the Natural Balance LID duck and potato diet because that one is made for puppies, which the fish and sweet potato is adult maintenance. Since he is still fairly young (8 mo), I figure it would be better to have him back on a puppy diet. Eventually (and hopefully not too far away), I’d like to switch him to a different food, hopefully something that is more cost effective.
good news, it’s only early days just stick with the Natural Balance brand for now & when the fish & potato kibble bag has about 1/4 left get a bag of Duck & Potato instead & slowly introuce, the Duck formula is balance more for a growing puppy, but ingredeints are the same except the meat proteins are different…if you want to give any fish then feed human grade tin sardines & salmon in spring water add to his diet
I wonder how he’d go on another brand later on not now that has no peas like te Natural Balance has no peas?? like Lamb & Rice Duck & Rice etc, Patch can’t have boiled cooked rice but he can eat the grounded rice in kibbles, alot of the healthy grain formula’s don’t have the peas, thats if it was the peas he’s sensitive too in the Kirklands Nature Domain Turkey & Potate formula cause Kirkland make other formula’s that aren’t grain free & are pea & chickpea/lentil free ??
Glad to hear Atlas is doing better. It will take time for his tummy to heal and for the bacteria to get better established. For bacteria to flourish in the gut, it needs to be inflammation free and a diet with plenty of soluble fiber. It was after my girls were eating the Natural Balance Kangaroo and Potato for several months that I was not able to transition them to a new food without adding the kefir, even though one had been getting a good pet probiotic every day. It is a good food as far as digestion, but in my experience was not good for promoting gut health. (I never had a problem transitioning foods prior to the NB).
You may want to consider Purina Pro Plan. If you take a look at some of the threads on here, there have been several people with large breed puppies that were having poo issues, and they said their dogs do better on Pro Plan.
Good luck with the new vet and hopefully he/she will be able to help get Atlas on a more appropriate diet.
Another vet appointment, another update. Nothing really new though. Vet says he clearly has food sensitivities, and that I shouldn’t worry so much about him being on the adult food. I should keep him on this food for several months in order for his gut to stabilize. That’s pretty much all the advice I got…
So, I’ll keep him on this food for some time (even if it breaks the bank) and then maybe I’ll try transitioning to another food. My biggest issue is with the treats. I need to train him on so many things, and yet all of the treats throw his stomach for a loop. Not sure what to do.
My girls only get their kibbles as treats because of the food issues my allergy girl has. It is clear they really enjoy getting handed one kibble at a time. I know the NB LID treats have a couple of more ingredients than the kibble, but that might be something you will be able to work into his diet slowly since it has most of the same ingredients.
yes I knew the vet wouldn’t be able to tell you much more especially when you have done all the poo tests & ruled out parasites etc…..
How did he go after adding the Kefir, has the Kefir helped or made things worse?
He’s eating the fish NB fish formula, the fish LID is the only LID formula without pea protein the rest of the NB LID formula’s have pea protein except the Potato & Duck it doesn’t have Pea Protein BUT it doesnt have Sweet Potatoes either it just has potatoes, all the NB LID formula’s differ in ingredients, did you end up trying the NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula? it is heap higher in Omega oils that may have contribute to sloppy poo’s if you did try teh NB Puppy Potato & Duck formula…
Have you tried a different NB formula like Venison or Bison the NB formula’s that have Sweet Potatoes like the Fish NB formula has…You could start using another NB formula that has different meat protein for treats for 1-2 weeks, this way you’re slowly introducing & another meat protein to his diet but all the other NB LID formula’s have Pea Protein, (that’s if he can’t eat peas??) When he’s been stable & been doing firm poos for 2-3months start doing an elimination diet so you can work out what foods he can & can’t eat, start adding under 1/4 cup frozen peas that you have cooked to his NB Sweet Potato & Fish meal then you can rule out peas being teh problem..
For treats you could buy tin samon in “spring water” drained all the water & add 1/2 boiled sweet potato make small flat balls & bake in oven on foil lined baking tray or read what Hills does for dogs on strict vet diets, Hills recommend you buy the matching wet loaf style canned food that matches the vet diet that your dog is eating, so you look at the NB LID wet canned foods & he eat Chicken & Sweet Potatoes or there’s the matching Sweet Potatoes & Fish canned food but it has to be a loaf style wet food it can’t be the chunky broth style wet can food, you’ll have to email Natural Balance & ask them are their LID canned Fish formula a loaf style or broth & chucky style?
You open can loaf food slide out the loaf then you cut the loaf in thin slices then you put on a foil linned baking tray & slowly bake in the oven & make treats. I’ll try & find Hills treat recipe online this is what Patches vet recommend I do in the beginning when Patch couldn’t eat anything except his Eukanuba Intestinal Low Residue kibble or Hills sell their Hypo-Treats but the Natural Balance LID treats look heaps better & are cheaper & have less ingredients then the Hills Hypo-Treats have…..
Here’s Chewy site link, they seem to be cheapest & are pretty good with refunding money well so I’ve read, when a dog can’t eat a certain food.. this is Natural Balance LID formula’s & matching LID treats, pretty cheap around $5 https://www.chewy.com/s?page=1&rh=brand_facet%3ANatural+Balance
You’re lucky Atlas can eat the NB LID Sweet Potato Fish Formula & he isnt on a vet diet as vet diets are expensive almost double the price as the NB formula’s. I’ll keep a look out for another brand that has Salmon & Sweet Potato or another protein & sweet potato & has around the same amount fat, protein & fiber % that he’s doing well on. I know Merrick LID uses Sweet Potatoes & has similiar ingredients as the Natural Balance has but its the same price & dogs with GI problems do really well on Merrick LID formula’s also there’s “4health” is another really good kibble for dogs with Gi problems & it’s cheaper…. but next year after you’ve done an elimination diet I’d be trying a new kibble..
Thanks to both for the responses.
The NB LID treats are a possibility though they are the boring dry treats, which don’t really entice him. They unfortunately don’t have the moist training treats in a LID formula.
Another idea I had was maybe just plain cod skin….he seems to do ok with fish so perhaps it’s worth trying?
With the kefir, he definitely is not doing worse, but I’m not sure if he’s doing better either.
I loved your suggestions on the treats, like baking the loaf style ones or even making some from salmon and potato. I’m trying to use the NB LID puppy duck and potato for treats, but honestly he’s not super motivated by that kibble. I was also thinking maybe cod skin treats would be good because they are also single-ingredient. My issue though is that even if he is not sensitive to a certain protein, it seems like he may be sensitive to it if it’s prepared a certain way? I saw that because when I cook chicken for him at home, he is absolutely fine with it. However, when I buy him chicken jerky treats that have absolutely no other added ingredients, he gets soft poos. I find it so troubling!
Although the LID kibble and treats are dry, they are processed to the point where they digest easily. The jerky you buy is dehydrated so much that it is harder to digest. I make my own jerky for the girls and I take it out before it gets too dry–it spoils quicker with less moisture removed so you need to refrigerate or freeze for longer storage.
Single ingredients will not make a difference–it is the digestibility of the ingredient(s) you need to consider–just like rice versus potatoes.
That’s a good note, and I’m glad you said that. Interestingly, when we was having diarrhea, I saw that the chicken jerky treats were coming out whole. So we started soaking them. We soak the chicken jerky overnight and then feed it to him. I would think that with the soaking, they would be pretty much as digestible as the chicken made at home, no?jellaMember
The vet kindly pushed us to go ahead and send his blood work off to the pet allergy testing labs. He had food allergies that scored real high. After we found a pet food company that made a food for him his stomach problems stopped completely. Might be something to consider. Our dog came back allergic to Barley, Rice, Corn, White Potatoes, Duck, Flax, or (Flaxseeds) Milk, Pork. But if you can’t do this I would just find a good dog food with maybe a couple of good ingredients to try for awhile. Maybe canned pumpkin or sweet potatoes would help his tummy.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by jella.
No, I don’t think soaking or anything could bring the jerky back to the same state as fresh cooked chicken. Once the moisture is pulled out it changes the structure of the meat, like the difference between raw and cooked meat and jerky goes even further than cooked. If nothing else is working out for training, maybe you could just use small bites of the chicken you cook and try dipping the LID treats in the cooked chicken liquid.
At this point, you need to concentrate on getting the bacteria built up in his gut so he will be able to digest more. As I mentioned before, feeding kefir with food will aid more in digestion and as Susan stated maybe 3 or 4 tablespoons a day. You might try adding just a little banana-it would give the bacteria something to feed on. I just don’t think the LID food alone provides enough soluble fiber to get the gut healthy based on what I saw with my girls. I know NB has tweaked their formulas since I was feeding it and they may have added more soluble fiber.
Jella – I appreciate the suggestion. I asked the vet about this for the same reasons you’re sharing. Her response was that based on how many foods I’ve tried with the same primary ingredients, she thinks that he is sensitive to something very low down on the ingredient list and therefore – something that we probably can’t test for. She doesn’t think he has sensitivities to any of the major things. So it seems like it would just be a waste of resources to do that.
CockalierMom – ok, that makes sense about the chicken. So based on what you’re saying, it sounds like maybe we should keep those treats around (we got two huge bags!) and hope that once his tummy is better, he may be able to digest it (since he doesn’t seem to have a sensitivity to chicken itself). I am giving him kefir like you said! He’s getting 2tbsp morning and night. About the soluble fiber – how would I know how much a food has? Should I start adding more soluble fiber to his diet after his tummy stabilizes?
I honestly think once you get his gut healed (it may take several months) he will be able to eat the jerky and a bigger variety of kibble. I suspect this was going on before he was rescued and right now he just needs food that is very easily digestible so as not to irritate his gut. If you do try to introduce any of the duck and potato kibble or treats, I would do it very slowly with only 3 or 4 kibbles or half a treat in a day. I think he will be able to digest it, but take it slow to give his gut time to adjust.
I tried to find out how much soluble fiber was in several different brands of kibble (including NB), but all the companies could only give me their total fiber. Since you said probiotics and kefir don’t seem to be making much difference, that makes me think that his diet may not have enough soluble fiber to feed the bacteria (based on my experience with what I saw in my girls). I personally prefer adding food to the diet although you could add a probiotic with a prebiotic in it.
If you continue to not see any improvement (firmer, smaller, and less frequent poos), I think it is worth a try add a little banana along with the kefir and see if that helps any. Like you said, give him some time to stabilize before making any additions.
with the Kefir you mighten be seeing any results but it’s working, same happened with Patch he was on a dog probitic “Protexin” yellow label Soluble + the same kibble Eukanuba Intestinal Vet diet for 9 month before I started introducing any new kibbles then I slowley started new kibble 9-12months later & went back & forth with the Eukanuba Intestinal till I found the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble that worked, then once I found the TOTW I looked for other kibble with similair ingredients to the TOTW, it was always 2 steps forward 1 step backwards with Patch, then we did Endoscope + Biopsies & Patch had the Helicobater-Pylori & IBD. He probably got the IBD from old owners not stopping what was irritating his gut & bowel & kept feeding it, I rescued him age 4yr old.
You can also cut up small peeled apple pieces & Water melon for treats & when Patches gut isnt working properly the apple & water melon pieces come back out un digested in his poo & I know his stomach isn’t working & stop the Apple & Water Melon treats. Summer is coming soon & i’ll re-try the water & rock melon pieces again another good treat is Green Lipped Mussles they’re freeze dried & seem to crumble easy & are very easy to digest & healthy…. Patch is the same he can NOT have Jerky type treats he gets his pain, all the foods he eats must swell in water quickly, I’m always testing foods, treats, kibble to see which foods swell up in warm water quickly within 30mins…
Ajax will get there he’s probably had a bad start to life his mum might have been under nourised & she didn’t have enough milk to feed the whole litter, we see this alot in rescue the poor pups are born so skinny then all dumped with the mum at the pound in a box so Ajax never would got any colostrum from the beginning of mums milk what is needed for a healthy gut & strong immune.. Something has happened cause he’s a young pup…
Google info on Colotrum powder for dogs & google L-Glutamine leaky Gut..
Thanks for the suggestions and general support and good vibes.
Atlas is doing great on the sweet potato and fish diet, still getting kefir twice a day as well. His poop is nice and solid and he is going about 4-5 time /day, compared to the 7-8 he was doing before. I’ve started giving him the duck and potato kibble as a treat and he is doing great with that. The only thing is that he thinks it tastes ok, but not good enough to be a real “treat” like to get his attention when he wants to chase a bird otherwise.
I may try what Susan said in awhile and buy some of the canned food and bake it or something. Little by little, hopefully he’ll get better.
I have some questions about other dog health topics that are unrelated to food and this thread. Are there any other forums you all use for that kind of stuff? I’d love your suggestions.
Atlas & Cockalier Mom as well,
I follow “Rodney Habib” https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib on his face book page, Dr Karen Becker & Rodney have been traveling all over the world speaking & interviewing Dr’s Vets, Scientists etc like Dr Steve Marsden, Dr Marty Goldstein, Dr Jean Dobbs, Dr Richard Patton, Dr John Robb, Dr Ian Billinghurst, Dr Gregory Ogilive, DR Karen Becker, Dr Erin Bannink, Dr Joseph Mercola, Dr Tim Spector & many more & Rodney & Ty Bollinger have put together a 5 part video’s free so we all can learn how to have a healthy dog the way nature intended them to be, click on Rodneys link above then scroll down his page & look for “The Truth About Pet Cancer” Episode 2, “Hidden Hazards & Causes” get a cuppa sit back & watch, then watch Episode 3 Raw Diet vs Kibble, Episode 4 “Heal & Repair” has just been put on Rodneys F/B page.
“Steve Brown” is also good to follow when it comes to healthy feeding & what to add to your dogs diet, when Steve Brown was asked, if he had to add just 1 ingredient what would he add to balance the diet & he said “Mussels” they’re cheap & very healthy, Mussels have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D, EPA, DHA, Glucosamine, Chondrotoitin get some Freezed Dried Green Lipped Mussels I buy “K-9 Natural” New Zealand Brand, Patch gets 2 Mussels a day around 11am, yes he does do a few smelly farts after he eats te Mussels but so far pooo’s have stayed the same firm & I know Mussels are very healthy for his skin, coat & his joints, he’s nilly 9yrs old in Novemeber, Steve also said to add 1 spoon of Salmon & a pinch of kelp to their diets….
Dr John Robb & Jean Dobbs are really good Dr’s watch their interviews about Vaccinations in “The Truth About Cancer” Episode 2, we all want answers why are our pets dying so young from cancer & other diseases, back 20-30 yrs ago this wasn’t happening cause we weren’t putting all these flea tick poisons on or in their bodies or feeding dry processed kibble, we feed table scaps what we ate, we didn’t over vaccinate, I only remember my mum going to the old drunk vet up the road when the cats needed desexing or putting down, she’s carried them in small round leather bag & bring them back & burry them in the back yard.
When watching these video’s get a writing pad to jot things down quickly, in Episode 3 when Ty Bollinger who is also doing these Episode with Rodney Ty talks about what he uses for Flea products, after watching this section of the video you will think twice before using any poison flea products, Ty said he gets “Orange Oil”, “Lemon Oil” & “Grapefruit Oil” he gets a little 99c spray bottle adds a few squirts of all 3 oils then add some water shakes & spray Atlas for Fleas & Ticks instead of giving him any poison flea products, Mike Adams said he uses “Cedar Oil” for fleas & Ticks especially if your dogs swims, the Cedar Oil doesn’t wash off, Dr Eward Group uses “Diatomaseous Earth” for worms & heartworm adds once a week to 1 of the meals “do NOT give him any of these new Flea Chews or tablets” they change the dogs blood, so think about it a tick has just bitten your dog & the Tick dies straight away, this poison is in their blood running & pumping thru their body going thru our dogs organs now that wouldn’t be healthy for the dogs. Bravecto should be taken off the shelves its the worst flean product & cause its new we dont have any real research yet about long term side effects, the Poisons in Bravecto stays in a dogs body heaps longer then the 3 months it states on Bravecto, vets have taken blood tests from very sick dog after they had been given Barvecto Chew & became very ill & 9mths later these sick dogs still had the poisons that are in Bravecto still in their system…
There’s not much research when it comes to our dogs & cats especially food & diet, most of the research is done by the big companies like Hills but in Australia our vets & some of our pet food companies tell us pet owners if you feed kibble also add raw meaty bones to the dogs or cats diet at least once or twice a week, we have one brand kibble called “Stay Loyal” made by brothers & they tells their customers to fast your dog 1 day a week Sunday & feed raw meathy bones instead of a kibble meal thru the week, this is what all pet food companies should be doing being honest with pet owners but it wont happen in America…
I hope you both enjoy watching Rodney & Ty Bollingers video’s there’s a lot to sink in so maybe watch the video’s a few times, the sad part is we have sick pets & cant do alot of the things like feed the Raw Diet but we still can add healthy foods to their diets, in 1 yr time when Atlas is an Adult & gut has healed, Atlas might be able to chew on a nice raw meaty bone & have no problems at all later on, he’s lucky he has you helping heal & fix his intestinal problem now in the beginning while he’s still a pup, so chances are his intestinal tract will slowly heal & then just avoid the foods he’s sensitive too, where Patches old owners we think he had a few owners cause of his name “Patch” he didnt know or answer to Patch when I get him thru rescue & he was micro chipped at 3months old all details DOB were on his M/C paper work, patches first owner must of given him up to someone else cause he would of answered to Patch, his owners mustnt of bothered when he had diarrhea or did real sloppy poo’s & just kept feeding him them same diet that was causing all his intestinal problems ..When I move I’m re introducing Patch onto raw again, I’m trying 1 last time, he’s getting a Crocodile meaty bone for his 9th birthday, he always pulls me to the fridge section & looks at the raw Crocodile & Kangaroo meaty bones….
We can stop using the flea tick products, I don’t use any flea/tick, allwormers or no Heartworm products, Patch always became real ill after I’d use any flea/tick products & his vet said NO to all the new flea/tick chews & tablets, the Fleas dont seem to jump on him, he doesnt seem to get any fleas only 1 Summer the fleas at the Park were bad we had had heaps of rain & a few fleas would jump up on his legs but he’d tell me straight away, he’d stop walking & look to where the flea was on his body & I’d squeeze inbetween nails & kill them, I dont use allwormers or Heart wormers either I dont live in a bad Heartworm area ask your vet he’ll know if your living in a high heartworm area, the only flea product Patches vet said to use & doesn’t go thru to the dogs blood is “Frontline Plus” Spot On & Frontline Spray, the rest all go into the dogs blood, that’s another thing try & find a GOOD vet, there’s some bodgee vets around & some really good vets like Rodney’s video’s they do heaps more studying after they have become vets & learn heap more about diet, nutrition, poisons, vaccines etc did you know a vet isnt taught how to prevent your dog from getting sick or cancer the vet is just taught how to treat the dying dog who already has cancer or is already sick, that’s sad I think…..
I’ve seen a lot of different vets over the years thru rescue, you have vets that love giving the dogs drugs & dont bother working out why this is happening with teh dog etc but lately the vets I’m seeing thru the pounds that are younger & learning now have an different approach then the more older cranky vets, so I hoping thats going to be a good thing for the future of our pets….
Thanks, Susan, I’ll check out your resources.
Anon101, you know what they say about assumptions, right? Not sure why you would make that assumption considering the number of vets and traditional medicine my dog has, is, and will experience. I’m also pretty sure that discussing food sensitivities does not count as homeopathy, or do you not believe in that?a cMember
I don’t use Facebook so thank you for the details from your post. I lost my 10 years old dog son to lymphoma(lymph nodes cancer)this past spring. It’s like a wake up call for me. I have trusted the vets, the dog food industries, pet vaccinations, pet heart warm provention, and pet flea control. I felt so bad. I have failed my dog. I gave him the poision. Never cross my mind that I need to second guessing them.
Now I do. I have been doing a lot of reading and research. The more I read the less I am willing to give them. Basically, everything is related to the greed, the revenue. Where are the ethics? I still haven’t find any vet who is willing to do blood work to determine whether annual rabies shots are necessary. If I know those info sooner, maybe my dog is still here with me.
sorry about your dog Son, I lost my Boxer Angie & when I look back & then see all the new research I think my God poor Angie she was age 10 yr old, but we will both learn from past mistakes & make a change for the better for our next dogs, 50yrs ago 1 in 100 dogs got cancer, today it is a staggering 1 in 1.65 dogs, this means 2 in 3 dogs will get cancer this year..
I have tried & tried to post the links for Episode 2 & Episode 3 for you BUT it will not post, I do not know why this is happening?? unless DFA had stoped these links?? Our Australian Pet Food Review has posted Rodneys Habib Episodes on his Pet Food Review site & his Facebook page, so I dont know what the problem is?? why they wont post on DFA…
Do you have an email account that you dont really use much, that you can post on here & then I will post you the links as I have saved my post, the delete your post with the email address, what happens when you click on the Rodney Habib f/b link I posted about can you click on the links on his f/b page?
Episode-2 is excellent the best of the episodes, I think, when I finally get the links to you, watch out for Dr Marty Goldstein & Dr John Robbs in the beginning of Episode 2 all your questions will finally be answered about Vaccinations & then listen to what Dr Karen Beckers says, by the time a puppy is 16 weeks he gets up to 21 vaccinations in his short little life, also a little small dog gets the same amount DOSE of vaccination as a large Saint Bernard dog gets, now that’s wrong, no wonder all these little dogs are sick, a puppy should not been given his Rabies vaccination untill he’s 6 months old not before 6months old & Vacinations must only be given when the dog is healthy & not sick…Dr John Robb saod the only vaccinations a dog needs is his Rabies, Distemper & Parvo shots the rest of American vaccinations are not needed & just cause more health problems, 1 vaccine lasts up to 7 yrs so why are these vets still giving yearly & 3 yearly vaccinations? I really like Episode 2 so much info…a cMember
Sorry about your Angie. Thank you so much for the info. I think I will be able to watch the video without the Facebook. I will do that later on this afternoon. They have posted Episode 4.
Pet cancer is epidemic. It needs to be taken seriously.pitloveMember
In order to understand why a small dog and a giant breed receive the same dosage for vaccines, you must first understand that there are weight based drugs and there are non weight based drugs and then you must also understand therapeutic index which is the comparison of the amount of therapeutic agent that causes the therapeutic effect to the amount that causes toxicity. For rabies and all other vaccines the therapeutic index is 1ml and they are not weight based drugs.
That is why a small breed and a giant breed receive the same dose. Hope this helps!Venessa LMember
I am hoping for some advice for my 8 month old Berner pup. She is a very happy healthy pup other than we have been battling spouts of diarrhea or soft poops every now and then. I would say that we have always been struggling with this since we got her at 8 weeks. We originally had been feeding her the Royal Canin – Developmental Food until she one day went completely off of the food. I also want to add that we have had several spells of diarrhea attacks where she had been prescribed tylosin to help clear it up and it worked. I tried a bunch of different foods and finally found a food that she likes (Performatrin Ultra – Foothills Recipe) which is a mix of beef/pork/venison. She has been on the Performatrin since August and has been doing well. There had been the occasional times where she would have softer, more greasy poops. End of September she started to develop a bit of redness around her muzzle and most recently some licking and chewing on her paws. I think sometimes she has a “flare up” and the redness is more pronounced around her face. I have been wanting to get her off the beef and pork mix because some people had mentioned that it may be an allergy to the beef. I want to try a limited ingredient food but with so many options I am really confused. I have seen a vet about this and the vet wanted to put her on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Food, I am hesitant because I haven’t heard the best review about what they put in it. Anyone else have an experience like this? Any suggestion on limited brands and what proteins have worked for you?
Thanks in advance!
Wow, lots of action on this thread! I wonder if we could start new threads with some of the topics here that are not really related to the original post (Atlas’ poo situation). More than anything, I’d like other folks to be able to find the info they need, without wading through this entire thread.
Vanessa, sorry to hear about your pup! Maybe you can start a new thread so that we can help you there and it doesn’t get buried as the 86th post on this thread 🙂 I’m also not sure the advice folks were giving my pup, Atlas, is necessarily the same advice they’d have for your dog.
Sounds like environmental allergies, hopefully mild and only seasonal….. not related to food.
However, I would talk to your vet about a elimination/prescription food to rule out food sensitivities.
If the symptoms continue (or become severe) and do not respond to treatment by your veterinarian within a reasonable amount of time (4 seasons/1 year) I would ask for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist for testing, accurate diagnosis and treatment options.
All commercial foods are at risk for cross contamination of ingredients, the prescription food is the only way to do a true elimination diet. Some good info over here
See the comments for a variety of opinions.
Glad to hear the poo situation is improving. If you decide to try the canned food, start with just a small amount straight out of the can. If he does ok, then lightly bake some and see if the poo stays the same. Just keep an eye out in case the baked edges get too dried out for his gut right now.
Also, I looked at the NB LID canned foods and the chicken and sweet potato is closer to the protein and fat that you are currently feeding (the canned food does not contain chickpeas like the chicken and sweet potato kibble). The fish and sweet potato is higher in protein and fat, but still might agree with his system. Stay away from the potato and duck canned food because the fat to protein ratio is too high.
You can always use the Off Topic forum for things not related to food.
Hi Venessa L,
Stick with kibbles that have only 1 single meat protein with limited ingredients & once you find a few that she likes & agrees with her start rotating them to build up her immune to different ingredients, it sounds like Seasonal Environment Allergies & Food Intolerances like my boy gets, he starts rubbing his bum & mouth & gets red around his mouth/muzzle after eating Chicken, start giving weekly baths to wash off any allergens that might be on skin & coat look for in an anti fungal anti bacterial medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo excellent for red itchy skin, smelly skin/coat, allergies etc I also buy the baby wipes Coconut Oil wipes or the Cucumber & Aloe Wipes Adli’s have the Wipes when they have their sales or I get Huggie baby Wipes & I wipe Patch down after he’s been outside or when we come back from our walks, I know when he starts rubbing his mouth, head, body on my rug he’s itchy so I either bath him or use the baby wipes…
Start keeping an Diary & do you have Pet Insurrance? get some before you tell teh vet & he diganoses your dog with Allergies then I think its classed as a pre existing health problem & not covered so if later you have to see an Dermatologist your covered as Dermatologist are very Expensive….
here’s a really good Face Book group call
“Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support Group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/
A Dermatologist frequents the group + other people going thru the same problems as you
Here’s some LID foods to try for stomach/bowel problems (food Sensitivities) & Itchy Skin problems.
* “Natural Balance” limited Ingredient Formula’s read ingredient list for each formula as some of NB formula’s have different ingredients like Chickpeas.
* “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb
“Canidae” Pure formulas or “All life Stages” Large Breed Puppy, Adult Turkey Meal & Brown Rice formula has limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products, scroll down a bit look to your right for “View All” click on page 5.
* “4Health” Special Care, Sensitive Stomach, is Egg & Potato
* “4Health” Special Care, Sensive Skin, has Hydrolyzed Salmon https://www.tractorsupply.com/landing-pages_brands_4health-special-care.html
Thanks, everyone! Will keep you posted.
I wanted to jump back in to update folks. Great news from my end – Atlas’ tummy has been doing well over the last 1-2 months. He is still on the Natural Balance LID Fish and Sweet Potato. The pooping frequency has gone down from 7-8 times/day to just 3-4, and they are much smaller in size, which makes me think he’s absorbing more of his food. They are also typically uniform and a good consistency. I haven’t intentionally given him other treats, but since I work downtown, he is constantly picking up leftover food on the streets and/or folks (like UPS delivery men) are giving him treats before I can stop them. And believe it or not, even with new and different foods, his stool has stayed great. If things continue like this, I may try incorporating other types of treats and/or food in a few months. Thanks to everyone for your help!
Glad to hear Atlas is doing good. You are correct about the poo…smaller and less frequent does mean food is being digested better and that makes it easier for the nutrients to be absorbed by the body.
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