[pitlove]

Hi Boris-

I would recommend getting a supplement like the one sold on BalanceIt.com that is meant specifically for adding to homecooked foods and making them balanced.

[pitlove]

Hi Kathy-

The last Zignature rep I spoke too told me Zignature was in fact appropriate for large breed puppies. However, this guy was also not extremely knowledgable about pet nutrition in general, so I doubt I trust him.

Best thing you can do is to email Zignature directly. Ask them for a full nutrient analysis of whichever Zignature formula you want to use and then take the kcals, calcium and phos levels and input them into this tool here: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

PLEASE NOTE* You will need to be very specific with them as to what you want in the email. Tell them you do NOT want the values of calcium and phos that would be found on a guarenteed analysis as that does not tell you anything. Ask specifically for a TYPICAL or NUTRIENT analysis.

You can post your results here and I will help you determine if the food is appropriate or you can read the article and see if it is for yourself.

[pitlove]

Hi Brendan-

I don’t feed raw for a lot of reasons, but here is a blog written by a woman from the Netherlands who has, in my opinion, correctly done a Prey Model Raw diet for her dog Mojo.

http://mojoandfriends.blog/2017/10/29/prey-model-raw-diet-dogs/

They also have a YouTube channel with meal prep videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Marijkee17

And if you follow her Insta gram page, she answers questions about Mojos diet.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by pitlove.

[pitlove]

Hi Patty-

I think thats a really great question you are asking, but unfortunetly difficult to answer, so I will give you pros and cons.

Pros (from what I’ve heard) from a raw diet is healthy teeth, small stool, evidence of help with allergic dogs. Cons are pathogen exposure, potentially not balancing the meals correctly, possible GI obstruction from bone content.

Weight loss can be tricky. The key is to burn more calories than what is being consumed. If she is not active and is still getting extras in her diet (like the pork pattie and other treats), but isn’t getting enough exercise to burn off those calories, she will not lose weight even on a raw diet. And yes, I’ve seen overweight dogs on raw diets. Raw isn’t a cure all for weight control. You, the owner, still have to put in the work and get the dog exercising. Walks are good, fetch in the yard is good. We use something called a “flirt pole” with my dog to burn calories. The big thing is going to be no more treats! Also, you will need to make sure that everyone in your household is on board with trying to help her lose the weight. Explain to them that she can live up to 2 years longer if you help her lose weight and yall want to keep her around for as long as possible.

[pitlove]

Hi M T-

The diet you prepare for your pets and are suggesting the OP prepare is not even remotely balanced. Your girlfriend may want to use her connections and consult a nutritionist to have recipes made that are complete and balanced.

[pitlove]

Hi Ange M-

The best thing you can do is find a food that states it is for a large breed puppy. Now I will warn you, some that make this claim are not actually large breed puppy safe because the company formulating the food doesn’t actually understand what causes developmental issues in growing LBPs on the diet side of things. Holistic Select was a really good example of a company like this.

The companies that are going to have the most trustworthy large breed puppy foods are Purina, Science Diet and Royal Canin. There is no reason to “avoid” any ingredients in a puppy on the assumption that maybe just maybe, he could one day develop a food sensitivity. This is absurd and will only cause you to be more confused. There is also no need to feed a puppy a rotational diet as suggested above. If something does happen, it will be almost impossible to know the cause. I went through this myself, so I can no longer recommend rotational diets.

[pitlove]

Hi Tyler-

It sounds like you have a large breed puppy. If so, large breed puppies have unique dietary needs and can not be fed a regular puppy food. You also need to be careful when feeding a food labeled for “all life stages” unless you are certain is it LBP appropriate. For this reason I tend to gravitate to companies that are known for producing reliably correct large breed puppy foods. My favorite one being Purina Pro Plan. Purina has spent millions of dollars on food trials and research on large breed puppy nutrition and growth. The price point may also be better for you and it is a widely available food. One other thing to note is that Pro Plan in general is highly disgestable, which will be great for his stomach given that he came from a shelter situation. Shelters are horrible places for dogs/puppies to be and it is very stressful, so GI upset is not uncommon in newly adopted dogs/puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

Aimee hit the nail on the head regarding the diet recommendations. Also just wanted to add that if the breeder has a recipe that she can give you that she has reared pups on successfully with no DOD’s then I would obtain that from her and follow it to the T during growth. This would be instead of DIY making your own recipe. Unless you trust the vet you see to help you.

As for bones, I generally do not feel safe giving any type of bone, but those that do insist that it is important to teach your pup the proper way to chew bones as soon as possible. Only concern is A) fractured teeth and B) adding calcium that will off set the diet. Waiting to introduce RMBs or recreational bones is probably best to do when he is fully grown and can regulate calcium on his own.

[pitlove]

Josh-

It’s important to first look for a food that actually states its for a large breed puppy. While it’s true that some brands have puppy foods that meet the ca/phos requirements for LBPs most do not. Wellness is not a bad brand and they do have large breed puppy specific foods. I am not a fan of Orijen/Champion Pet Food products. They are a marketing company solely dedicated to selling you a trendy pet food at an outrageous price. I’ll pass.

[pitlove]

Hi Josh S-

Unfortunetly, this puppy formula you are using is not fine tuned to suit the needs of a growing large breed puppy, so I would recommend another food.

Firstly, he should be taken to your vet and examined to make sure that if he was truly malnouished as you say, there is not an underlying condition (intestinal parasites etc) that would be causing poor appetite. I would not rely on the shelters vetting personally.

Once medicial issues have been ruled out, I would move him to Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy hard food. Haven’t known a dog to reject Pro Plan and it is highly digestable, so it will be easy on his stomach.

[pitlove]

I’ve only ever heard of doing this in food animals personally, so there might not actually be any information it regarding canines. Whats the goal you have in mind for doing this?

[pitlove]

Pro Plan Puppy or Sport 26/16 which is all life stages. My dogs always have excellent stool on Pro Plan because of how digestable it is.

[pitlove]

Hi Jason-

He does in fact need to stay on large breed puppy formula especially because he was neutered too early. This is critical for correct growth. Of the two options you have offered, Diamond Large Breed Puppy is the only option that would be appropriate for him.

Also, before jumping to the conclusion that he is having an adverse food reaction, you need to see the vet to eliminate all other causes such as fleas, mites, environmental and seasonal triggers. Adverse food reactions are not as common as people on the internet would have you believe, especially not in a 4 month old puppy.

[pitlove]

Good update AmCa. She was likely not acting herself due to feeling sluggish from being malnourished. Please do not forget to keep her at a healthy weight though! I see too many people with rescues that were malnourished and they “feel bad for them” and now they are over weight. Keeping an overweight dog is just as much abuse and neglect as keeping a malnourished one!

[pitlove]

As far as I’m aware pH strips are fairly unreliable, but it isn’t something that could hurt most likely. Best thing would be to find any way to increase water intake and to keep the dog on the weight control food your vet recommended with the S/O index. The S/O index will help with water intake. You could also purchase the canned food or add water to the dry food.

[pitlove]

This is a website recommended by ACVN board certified vet nutritionist Dr. Rebecca Remillard
https://www.vetmed.umn.edu/centers-programs/minnesota-urolith-center/recommendations

Also these are some of her comments on using an ingredient list to evaluate the quality of a pet food.

“In summary, despite the blather all over the web about how to evaluate a pet food by the label is just pure BS. This race to get meat listed as the first ingredient and ‘grain free’ has the pet food industry laughing all the way to the bank and those self-appointed pet food experts with their own “rating system” are simply perpetuating misinformation and adding to the confusion.”

“Because in the end, any one ingredient, no matter how defined, does vary widely in nutrient content. The definitions are much too vague to “rate” any one ingredient and so no one can rate the entire ingredient list and say that it represents the entire pet food product. IF the information in the building blocks is vague and lacks detail, how can that poor quality information suddenly become a fine tuned instrument for “rating” the whole pet food product? It can’t and truth is it was NEVER intended by AAFCO that the ingredient list could be used to ‘rate’ pet foods. It is a very poor tool. The whole rating game online and in pet journals has no true value to the individual pet owner trying to do best by their dog or cat.”

“You cannot in any way “assess” the ingredients by reading the label….
Only the manufacturer can do that at the time they decided to accept or reject the ingredient delivery.
So you have to investigate manufacturers and not ingredient lists.”

“There are no bad ingredients – there is bad information on the web for sure.
There are no particularly good or bad ingredients but there are well made and poorly made dog foods.
There is NO way to rate a dog food based on the ingredients list despite the number of self-proclaimed dog food rating web sites readily doling our advice to anyone who will listen.”

You can even ask her questions on petdiets.com, the the “Ask the Nutritionist” section about your concerns regarding Royal Canin

[pitlove]

You made no mention that your dog was almost clear of struvite crystals, just that you “wanted her off RC”. I assumed it was because you thought it was an inferior product based on what you’ve read on sites like this. If your vet ok’d a food change then it is fine, however you did not mention that at first, so I was not aware the vet had said she could come off the urinary diet.

[pitlove]

Hi sam c-

You said ” My vet is always pushing RC”

I take it you see this as a problem? However, your vet is recommending Royal Canin because they offer one of the best diets known to dissolve struvite crystals and uroliths. First Mate is not formulated for dogs with struvite crystals or uroliths. Also the amount of blueberries in the food is not theraputic and will not provide any help with prevention of struvite crystals.

[pitlove]

He could possibly be eating too fast and the sugery was a coincedence, not causal. I would start with a slow feeding dish and see if there is any improvement, but it never hurts to contact your vet.

Edit: I remember some of your previous threads and posts. I believe you have been having an issue with soft stool for a long time now with Fromm? Is that correct?

[pitlove]

Hi Rick-

You did not mention if you were given pain medications for after the neuter (I’m assuming you did though?). Some dogs don’t tolerate certain pain meds as well as others.

[pitlove]

Yes I would go with the multivitamin as the vet recommended until shes well again. Remember everything is in the short term while she is recovering. Once she is a healthy adult dog you can feed her any food of your choosing, do away with the multivitamin and start adding whole foods.

[pitlove]

Hi sam c-

I encourage you to discuss any food changes for your dog with your vet considering this is an issue that can reoccur and most over the counter foods can not fix this problem.

[pitlove]

Thanks for the update AmCa. I’ll be crossing my fingers for her that that she doesn’t have a closed pyometra since she was not spayed.

How has she been eating? Did you find a food for her?

[pitlove]

Hi A C-

A foster pit bull? Oh ya you’ll be keeping her! Bull breeds are hard to resist! Best dogs on the planet.

If I remember correctly your not a Purina fan, but my recommendation would be Pro Plan. She needs something easy on the stomach and highly digestible. Say what you want about Purina but pro plan is just that. Once she gets back to being healthy you can put her on a food you like more.

Other than that I would say Natural Balance if it’s something you have to get from PetSmart.

[pitlove]

Hi Kimberly-

Susan hit the nail right on the head with her whole post. It’s too bad they won’t give you a refund on the blood test since it’s known to be so inaccurate! The vets I work for recommend an elimination diet like Susan had mentioned. This is the golden standard for assessing food allergies.

If you would be interested in doing a food trial, I will warn you that is it challenging to do correctly and it takes a lot on the owners part. Whether you choose to use a prescription diet or homecook for the dog yourself, you can not give anything extra at all. No treats, no table scraps, no favored medications, no eating stuff outside, no food from another pet, no chews (dental etc), literally nothing but the diet. If the dog gets ahold of something that is not apart of the diet meant for the food trial, the trial is then considered void and must be redone.

[pitlove]

I’m not extremely big on rotational diets. I had attempted to do that with my dogs and it was fairly disasterous, so I no longer can confidently recommend doing it. But at the end of the day it depends on the dog.

I don’t find any of the ingredients in Royal Canin questionable, but I also look at nutrition differently than many people. Individual ingredients mean nothing if they are not cohesive once put together.

[pitlove]

Hi RollTide10-

You are correct, at 2 years old your mix breed is capable of regulating his calcium uptake now and no longer requires a large breed puppy diet or for you to be concerned about the ratio of calcium and phosphorus. He can now be placed on an adult maintenance diet or all life stages formula. Most importantly now is keeping him lean (4/9 on BCS).

As far as foods go, it sounds like he was doing much better on Royal Canin, so if I were you I would put him back on that since it was already established that he was doing well. Itching his back a little bit is not an indication of allergies. Dogs get little itches just like we do, doesn’t mean we are having an allergic reaction and same is true for them. However with WEF it does sound as though, either the source of the Omega 3s is not as quality of a source as with Royal Canin or its not enough. BTW, as an aside, ingredient lists tell you nothing about the quality of a food, only what should be in it. Royal Canin has strict sourcing and has often denied shipments of corn that Kelloggs then buys from them for our cereal. So I would not worry about their ingredients being of poor quality.

[pitlove]

Hi Sharyl-

Depending on where you live, the change in weather could be causing the dry skin/dander, or he is not getting proper amounts of fatty acids in his diet. You can likely continue him on Fromm Gold and add a fatty acid supplement like Grizzly Salmon Oil to his food and within a month or so will see an improvement.

Unless he is an extremely poorly bred dog with parents that showed similar symptoms at such a young age and later were diagnosed as a food allergy by elimination diet, its unlikely that he has already developed a food allergy.

Do not make the same mistake I made when my boy was a puppy and switch his foods all around. It turned out he was in fact food sensitive and by changing his food so frequently, I could not keep it under control. I also had no clue what was causing the problem. Now he can not eat a grain free diet and peas, kangaroo, duck and red meat are his worst triggers.

[pitlove]

Hi Kelly-

DFA does not rate dog treats. Their current rating system would not fit for dog treats since they are meant for supplemental feeding and not a full diet.

I personally do not use treats in my house, so I can’t help much there, but I think most of the people on here use treats from the same company of food they buy or make their own.

Personally though, I find that petting, praise, exercise and love are what they prefer to treats. And then they live longer because they aren’t overweight! Its a win win for me.

[pitlove]

Hi L C-

Was the breeder feeding him Fromm Large Breed Puppy or a different brand of food?

Also in your other post you said he was 14 months old, but in this one he is 14 weeks old. Can you clarify which age he is as that matters a lot.

[pitlove]

Hi Karen-

Unfortunately, the problem extends further than companies changing ingredients and not making it obvious in the new packaging. The other, bigger problem is cross contamination in the manufacturing process. A company can process their chicken based diet and then begin manufacturing their supposed “chicken free” limited ingredient diet, but since they didn’t clean the machine in between that product is now contaminated.

A study was done on this by one of the vet schools some odd years ago and all the over the counter limited ingredient diets they tested came back positive for proteins not listed on the label. The only way to be sure this is not happening, is by using an allergenic diet from the vet. The companies that make those diets sterilize the machines in between each run to prevent contamination.

[pitlove]

I know several people with Greyhounds that use Purina Pro Plan Sport for their Greyhounds, no legumes at all. I have a dog with the same problem and can not use grain free as well. The woman I’m friends with that owns a few racing Greyhounds and runs a Greyhound adoption group as well feeds Diamond Hi-Energy to all her personal dogs and dogs up for adoption. No legumes in that either.

[pitlove]

I contacted the Pro Plan customer service line and then was directed to their veterinary diet team because they felt they could help me better there. So perhaps contact their veterinary diet team first?

[pitlove]

Julia-

It sounds like he might benefit from a home cooked diet based on what you are saying. This way you can tailor his food better and make sure you are not adding in what he can’t eat. You would just need to make sure you get a supplement like the ones on BalanceIt.com to make his meals complete and balanced.

Peas are the #1 trigger for my guy as well. We did an elimination diet as well with a prescription food. He did very well on it.

[pitlove]

I worked at an independently owned pet store for 2 and a half years and at least at my store, we would always get comments about how much lower our prices were than Petco and Petsmart. Also they will usually price match for you, unless its a sale item or online price. Independent stores can not usually compete with online pricing, but they try their best.

I’m not sure about Authority or Simply Nourish, but I know with Purina I can call them and they will tell me exactly how much fiber is in the formula I’m asking about. The Pro Plan formula I use reports 3% MAX fiber, but when I called and asked how much the actual true value was it was much lower (dry matter fiber was 1.6%). It is possible that she may need a little more fiber in her diet yes. However, if you chose to go with a food that reports the MAX fiber high like 6% I would not also add pumpkin as it could cause too loose of stool.

Also I would highly encourage you to contact Purina Pro Plan directly. Their customer service is beyond wonderful and I think they will help put your mind at ease.

[pitlove]

Matt, I share Maries admiration for him! Hes lovely! I will be getting a Cane Corso in a few years, which people often mistake the Presa for 😛

So IPO (used to be called Schutzhund) actually creates a more balanced guardian breed, not a more aggressive dog. They learn to “attack” the decoy on command and they must “out” (release) on command as well. Check out some youtube videos of the field trials for IPO. Its very cool!

Presa are very protective and aloof (like all other Mastiff breeds) by nature, so training, socialization, obeidence, but also teaching him to harness that protective nature in a positive, productive way is important. Most Mastiff people do lure coursing, protection work, weight pull and tracking for their dogs. Some do agility, but I don’t see it as much. Definitely a good thing to think about getting him into though!

[pitlove]

Adriana-

I had to switch to a different Pro Plan formula because after we switched my dogs food thinking it would be better for his allergies, he had a bad reaction (vomiting, diarherra) to it and after that the Sensitive Skin & Stomach no longer was working for him. After talking to a lady at the Purina vet diet customer service line for an hour we determined he might need a lower fiber food, so we went back to the Pro Plan Sport 26/16 and hes been perfect ever since.

Edit: As far as the expired foods go. The only time a store should be putting foods on sale are when they are CLOSE to expiration, within a month or so. If they are not checking their shelves regularly for expired product that is an individual store issue. PetSmart is known for having food be in poor conditions like this. You might be better off buying from chewy.com or seeing if any of your independently owned local pet stores will order the product for you or carry it in store. They will likely not have storage issues.

[pitlove]

When I used the Sensitive Skin & Stomach yes it had speks on it. Never hurt my dogs in anyway. Plenty of foods have stuff like that on them.

The best food is the one your dog does best on. Not the one rated the best on here. What have you read fish is worse for?

[pitlove]

Hi Matt-

Wow a Presa! Wonderful dogs. Bet he is just lovely. Yes you are correct that giant breeds like Mastiffs can grow up to 24 months of age. 4-5 out of 9 on BCS is perfect and even if he drops down to a very conditioned (well muscled) 3 it is by far better than being even a 6 on BCS. I’d always perfer to see a dog on the thinner side than even slightly overweight.

Given that you got him from a rescue situation and do not have a ped on him its going to be more challenging to determine if he is inline with standard growth and size for Presa. Normally you could use the parents as a gauge, but not knowing his parents you can not do this.

I checked out a Mastiff forum really quick and in the Presa section most peoples opinions are that you should worry less about weight and focus on Body Score, just like you’re doing. Everyone talking on the thread had dogs the same age that had different weights. You will still need to adjust his portions as he fills out, but I would focus more on Body Condition rather than actual weight. It sounds like he is growing slowly which is what you want. Also if he is highly food motivated you should use his kibble for training basic stuff rather than treats. Only use treats when you need something high value for more demanding training like recall commands. I dont know what you intend on doing with him, but Presa are very good at working and enjoy many sports like IPO (bite work). Would definitely encourage you to get him into some sports!

Also for what its worth, having a vet that does have experience with your breed or breeds like it is important.

[pitlove]

Hi Julia-

How were you able to determine he is allergic to those specific ingredients? Was it by food elimination trial? Was that why he ate the hydrolyzed food?

[pitlove]

You can likely choose whatever food you want and just increase the portion of food he gets

[pitlove]

I dont know much about Authority other than it is PetSmarts house brand. I’m personally more comfortable with Pro Plan. I’ve used Pro Plan for almost 2 years come the end of this month and I’ll never use another brand.

[pitlove]

Ok I see. Most people when they say their dog is too thin think that a dog that is a 5/9 or 4/9 (which is ideal) is too thin, but yes a 1 or 2 is too thin. Especially for a Chihuahua. You may want to consider a puppy food for a short time to get him back to a 4 or 5 out of 9 and then try to maintain that. Edit: Sorry I see you do have him on a puppy food, so yes keep him on that.

I am a big fan of Purina Pro Plan and fed the Sensitive Skin & Stomach formula for about 1 1/2 years to both my dogs. If it has the right amount of calories your dog needs I would recommend it. I will caution you though that the pieces are probably too big for a tiny dog like that.

[pitlove]

When you are home and let him out more frequently, is he still urinating as much?

[pitlove]

Hi Dewper-

How often is he being let out to use the bathroom? The days where both my boyfriend and I are gone for work or school our dogs pee a lot when we let them out when we get home. The days we are home all day we let them out every 4 hours and they don’t pee as much each time.

[pitlove]

Adriana-

Is this a puppy we are talking about? If so what kind of puppy? No dog should ever have a “tummy”. Being overweight is bad for puppies and adult dogs. Please google Purina Body Condition System to see what ideal weight should look like.

[pitlove]

BD-

Since its a Purina product, I would assume it does, though I have not looked into it. Hopefully Aimee answers as its something she may have investigated.

[pitlove]

Hi Laurel-

You will need to find a petfood that specifically says it is designed for a large breed puppy. Purina Puppy Chow, Ol’Roy and Simply Natural are not foods that meet those requirements. If you shop at PetSmart the brands you have available that would be best are going to be Science Diet, Royal Canin, Purina Pro Plan, or Wellness.

[pitlove]

Aimee, I think it would help greatly if Karen Becker would publically admit to being wrong about her diet recommendations for “starving yeast”. She is by far one of the most influential voices promoting this myth.

[pitlove]

Great post Susan and excellent link with good information!

@ Lynn-

I was going to say the same thing, but Susan beat me to it. Yeast overgrowth is NOT fed by carbs/starch. This is a popular internet myth.

[Author]

Posts