[sam c]

I have a 5yr old female terrier. Had her for 2 1/2 yrs. When we first got her she didn’t eat much(new environment I guess) and she developed bloody diarrhea. Ran tests…all good. The vet put her on RC low fat gastro food. All good
In the fall, I transitioned her over to Wellness Core Reduced fat. Within a month she had a bout of UTI with some st crystals. Vet put her on anti-b’s and put here on RC SO urinary food. It worked. Second urine test indicated no bacteria and crystals way way down.
Now, 2 months later, I wanna get her off RC SO. I’m looking for a grain free mid level protein (under 30%) and a low phosphorus level.
Considering BB, Canadide, and Performatrin.

Am I barking up the right tree with my feed thoughts

thanks

sam

• This topic was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by sam c.

[anonymous]

Per the search engine here, previous post, there are many :-/ on the same topic

/forums/topic/advice-on-food-for-dog-with-urinary-crystals/#post-109970

Hope this helps

[pitlove]

Hi sam c-

I encourage you to discuss any food changes for your dog with your vet considering this is an issue that can reoccur and most over the counter foods can not fix this problem.

[sam c]

My vet is always pushing RC. I’m considering Canidae Grain Free Resolve.

Protein 28%
Fat 9%
Phosphorus 1.2% (according to email from Candae)

Although 1.2 seems high, I’ve reading some research that a low protein, low phosphorus diet is NOT required to ward off st crystals or UTI

She has been on the RC SO for 7 weeks and all is good, and until I switched to Wellness Core all was good for the 2 yrs before that….coincidence???

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by sam c.

[sam c]

So I decided to try to ‘FirstMate Chicken Meal with blueberries’. Started the transition yesterday

Pr 25%
Fat 14%
Calcium 1.5%
Phos .9%

I’m hoping the blueberry content will help acidify the urine and ward off any future bacteria and thus crystal formation.

I know the calcium/phos. ratio is high. But I have learned on this forum that with adult dogs that is not much of a concern

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by sam c.

[anonymous]

Well, if it was me, I would stay with the RC prescription/therapeutic diet for at least 6 months to a year. Then, if the dog has no reoccurrences (urinary tract infections)
I would try another dog food to my liking.
Again, increased water intake and increased bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate are the best thing you can do for this condition that tends to be genetic.
Did the dog have an ultrasound? Where other types of stones ruled out?
I say this because there are specific dietary restrictions depending upon the type of stones the dog is making. Discuss with your vet at the next visit.
Best of luck.

[pitlove]

Hi sam c-

You said ” My vet is always pushing RC”

I take it you see this as a problem? However, your vet is recommending Royal Canin because they offer one of the best diets known to dissolve struvite crystals and uroliths. First Mate is not formulated for dogs with struvite crystals or uroliths. Also the amount of blueberries in the food is not theraputic and will not provide any help with prevention of struvite crystals.

[sam c]

No ultrasound/xrays. Vet said keep her on RC SO for 6 weeks (all good), then put her on RC Diet Weight Control.
AS mentioned above, since we first got her 2 1/2 yrs ago, after her initial bout of bloody diarrhea. The RC low fat gastro worked……..all good. Then in the fall switched to Wellness Core Reduced fat………month later uti.

One case of UTI in 30 months doesn’t seems like a re-occuring issue

Do you have any specific concerns about the Firstmate?

[sam c]

Hey pitlove, second urine test indicated no bacteria and st. crystals way way down.

I assume the RC Diet Weight control is not designed for prevention of crystals?

[pitlove]

You made no mention that your dog was almost clear of struvite crystals, just that you “wanted her off RC”. I assumed it was because you thought it was an inferior product based on what you’ve read on sites like this. If your vet ok’d a food change then it is fine, however you did not mention that at first, so I was not aware the vet had said she could come off the urinary diet.

[anonymous]

“One case of UTI in 30 months doesn’t seems like a re-occuring issue”
“Do you have any specific concerns about the Firstmate?”

I am just saying keep an eye out for the urinary tract infections to return, if they do, I would have an ultrasound done.
This is based on my experience with a small breed dog that had his first uti/crystals episode at the age of 11 after a late in life neuter (necessary due to a testicular tumor)
All went well, antibiotics, prescription food……low and behold another uti 6 months later.
Took him to the emergency vet, they did an ultrasound immediately and found multiple stones, emergency surgery performed, stones sent off for analysis, dog had BOTH struvite and calcium oxalate stones.
Specific diet recommended, did the prescription food for a while (1 year)
Water added to all meals, frequent bathroom breaks provided, no further problems.
Dog lived another 5 years and passed due to unrelated causes.
PS: FirstMate sounds good, just drench it in water 🙂

[sam c]

Thanks guys, I see both your points.

I did kinda want her off RC because of what I read here. However, I just checked the RC Diet Weight Management small breed line (only the small breed variety) and it IS designed to help with st. crystals:

*S/O® Index supports urinary health

Maybe that was part of his recommendation that went over my head.

I am still concerned over the ingredients. Chicken by-product meal being the first ingredient

[anonymous]

Hope these articles help (written by veterinarians)

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266

[pitlove]

This is a website recommended by ACVN board certified vet nutritionist Dr. Rebecca Remillard
https://www.vetmed.umn.edu/centers-programs/minnesota-urolith-center/recommendations

Also these are some of her comments on using an ingredient list to evaluate the quality of a pet food.

“In summary, despite the blather all over the web about how to evaluate a pet food by the label is just pure BS. This race to get meat listed as the first ingredient and ‘grain free’ has the pet food industry laughing all the way to the bank and those self-appointed pet food experts with their own “rating system” are simply perpetuating misinformation and adding to the confusion.”

“Because in the end, any one ingredient, no matter how defined, does vary widely in nutrient content. The definitions are much too vague to “rate” any one ingredient and so no one can rate the entire ingredient list and say that it represents the entire pet food product. IF the information in the building blocks is vague and lacks detail, how can that poor quality information suddenly become a fine tuned instrument for “rating” the whole pet food product? It can’t and truth is it was NEVER intended by AAFCO that the ingredient list could be used to ‘rate’ pet foods. It is a very poor tool. The whole rating game online and in pet journals has no true value to the individual pet owner trying to do best by their dog or cat.”

“You cannot in any way “assess” the ingredients by reading the label….
Only the manufacturer can do that at the time they decided to accept or reject the ingredient delivery.
So you have to investigate manufacturers and not ingredient lists.”

“There are no bad ingredients – there is bad information on the web for sure.
There are no particularly good or bad ingredients but there are well made and poorly made dog foods.
There is NO way to rate a dog food based on the ingredients list despite the number of self-proclaimed dog food rating web sites readily doling our advice to anyone who will listen.”

You can even ask her questions on petdiets.com, the the “Ask the Nutritionist” section about your concerns regarding Royal Canin

[sam c]

Do you recommend monitoring my dog ph level at home with ph strips?

[pitlove]

As far as I’m aware pH strips are fairly unreliable, but it isn’t something that could hurt most likely. Best thing would be to find any way to increase water intake and to keep the dog on the weight control food your vet recommended with the S/O index. The S/O index will help with water intake. You could also purchase the canned food or add water to the dry food.

[anonymous]

“Do you recommend monitoring my dog ph level at home with ph strips?”

I never bothered with that. PH levels fluctuate, it takes at least a month to see a significant change.
If your vet advises routine PH testing, take the dog in about every 3 months, collect a urine sample if you can.
Otherwise the vet tech can strait cath him, only lakes a second and doesn’t hurt.
That would be the most accurate imo.
Once he has been symptom free for 6 months to a year, my vet said we didn’t need to do testing unless the dog had symptoms, he was a senior and had other issues that took priority.

[Dias Kernel]

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