[pitlove]

Hi Andrea-

Welcome and congrats! I love Cane Corso’s! That is the next breed I plan on owning 🙂

I can certainly understand how crazy you must feel right now worrying about the best food to feed him. There are so many choices now for large/giant breed puppy foods, how can you possibly pick a best one?

Obviously calcium levels are of upmost importance, but so are other things like digestability, palatability, bioavailablity just to name a few. Also because growth for large and giant breeds is such an important and critical time in their life, I do prefer (but am not commited to) brands that have nutritionists staffed or consult with nutritionists to forumlate the food. Since I’m relying on this food to provide everything for my puppy in the proper amounts, I place value on that. Most of the companies that do that are larger companies that have more resources because of more money. I do understand however, that many people do not feel comfortable using brands of food from larger companies like Purina and Hill’s. A food I would highly consider looking into if you do not want to use a product from Purina or Hill’s is Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free). It is formulated by a vet and a veterinary nutritionist and has gone through feeding trials. Another brand I also really like is NutriSource because of it’s high digestability and palatability.

Another huge thing that people overlook with growing large breed puppies is by all means keep them lean! It keeps stress off the joints and growing bones and can also greatly help reduce the risk for bone disorders during growth and later in life. You can use the Purina Body Condition Score to access his weight and make sure he is staying at a 4/9.

Best of luck! Post some pictures if you can when you get him!

[pitlove]

Hi again Ken-

I’m very glad I could be of help! Hound Dog Mom certainly paved the way and it’s unfortunate that she’s so busy with school that she can’t be around to post.

Don’t forget, you can always switch up his food once he is done growing if you’d like to give him variety! But I personally do not think you are doing a disservice to him by using Pro Plan. This website uses very specific criteria to rate dog food, non of which factor in how well your dog will do on the food. It is assumed that a lower rated food is a bad food, however not even Dr. Mike believes that

He says in the article on this site “The Problem with Dog Food Reviews”

“So, does that mean a one-star dog food is bad for your dog?
No, probably not. A dog food with a low star rating isn’t necessarily a bad product.”

[pitlove]

I didn’t, but I just contacted them through the website and asked for the nutrient analysis for that formula. When I hear back from them, I will let you know. It most likely does meet the requirements, but I never just trust the front of the bag.

[pitlove]

Hi Kenneth-

Welcome to the forums. Hound Dog Mom hasn’t been able to post on here in quite some time due to school, so I don’t know that you’ll ever hear back from her. I can however, try to help.

Here is 2 articles from DFA that may help you understand large breed puppies and choosing a dog food a little better:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

/choosing-dog-food/brand-guidelines/

It is interesting that when you read through the second link the rating that Pro Plan recieves does not reflect those criteria that Mike has outlined. In fact Pro Plan makes a excellent choice when using those 9 tips. Another thing to be mentioned is that Purina is one of 2 companies that are the leaders in research for large breed puppy nutrition and growth. While some may choose other brands or diets other than kibble, many show dogs are fed Pro Plan as well. Personally, I see no reason to switch simply because this website rates it 2.5 stars, especially since you’ve noted your dog is doing quite well on it.

However, if you are insistant, I would highly recommend looking at Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free one). It is formulated by both a vet and a nutritionist and has gone through AAFCO feeding trials and if star rating is of that much concern, it is rated 4 stars.

[pitlove]

Anonymously, I do not board my dogs or my cat. I’m not here, nor is anyone else, to defend their choices about castrating their dog. I’m here to talk about and offer advice on large breed puppy nutrition. That’s it.

[pitlove]

Our 8 year old Lab was displaying some symptoms of there being a female in heat near by, however out of 3 intact males in the house/property he was the only one, so we’re still not sure what it was. Nothing as extreme as you are describing though.

I don’t use holistic or homeopathic vet’s or medicine. My allopathic vet was the one who suggested waiting til he was done growing to neuter. Spay and neuter is a very personal decision. We made the decision not to neuter our pitbull after months of going back and forth and debating on if it was the right choice for him and us. We are very happy with our choice and I don’t let anyone make me feel bad for it.

I value proper growth above all else for a large and giant breed dog.

[pitlove]

Thanks goldenstar!

That picture was from the Fourth of July. They had a good time playing in the kiddie pool while we grilled.

Could be a lot of reasons that Orijen isn’t agreeing with her. Could be an intolerance, could be wrong kinds or amounts of fiber. I do however think that switching to a food with less ingredients will be helpful because if it is a food intolerance, you will not have to sift through tons of ingredients to figure out which is the offending one.

[pitlove]

Hi anonymously-

I think you might be misunderstanding what we are talking about regarding spay and neuter in large and giant breeds and/or you may be unfamiliar with how pediatric altering effects growth.

We are not talking about waiting to spay or neuter a dog at old age, we are talking about waiting until the dog’s growth plates have fully closed before spaying or neutering (which for many large and giant breed is between 18 and 24 months). It is much healthier than pediatric altering and allows the bones to grow properly.

[pitlove]

Hi goldenstar-

Love your new avatar btw! What a cutie!

I’m personally not concerned about plant-based vs meat-based etc etc for a growing large breed puppy. That is something I would focus in on once you know he’s fully grown. I also have no problem with starting a puppy off on chicken. It is a common protein, but why introduce exotic proteins when you don’t need to? There is so much to choose from within the common proteins for variety.

If I were going to add anything at all to the diet it would be raw green tripe. However, as long as there is no bone and the chicken does not exceed 10% of the diet I don’t see the problem with that.

Circa Regal-

That is a great point you bring up and I could not agree more! We decided not to neuter either of our dogs, but even our vet warned us with our pitbull to wait until 18 months old when he was done growing.

I am absolutely a believer in not spaying or neutering early for large and giant breeds especially! It can be so devastating for their growth. Certainly though, it’s tough when you encounter a situation like yours.

[pitlove]

Hi April-

Fromm is a good food and good company. I would choose Fromm over Taste of the Wild and Holistic Select personally, simply because of the company itself. The Heartland Gold Large Breed Puppy has a 1.1:1 calcium/phosphorus ratio and a 3g/1000kcal ratio according to the numbers I used from their website from their technical analysis, so in short, yes that food would be good to use.

[pitlove]

Leg wraps are usually used in cases of knuckling over to help the bowing correct itself, however this is a dietary issue, as are most growth disorders in LBP’s. Precise is a great food and I would continue him on that. My boyfriends brother has had his Great Dane on it since he first got him and he grew perfectly.

I would consult his vet about excersize, but I’m thinking it’s not a great idea right now. I would also consult the vet about the leg wraps.

[pitlove]

Hi Tonya

Welcome to the forums!

Tripett is a canned variety of green beef tripe that is a great topper for kibble because it has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio.

Basically as I’m sure you have learned, excessive calcium and excess weight gain are the two major causes of bone growth disorders in growing large breeds. Some of these diseases don’t manifest until later in life, some manifest early on and then clear up. Either way it is important to feed a food appropriate for a growing large breed. The calcium to phos ratio should not exceed 1:5:1 and the calcium to calorie ratio should not exceed 3g/1000kcals.

Here is the issue….some foods make the claim “All Life Stages” which does mean it can be fed to a puppy or an adult. However, that does not always mean a LBP. Natural Balance makes the claim “All Stages, All Breeds” however that may or may not be true depending on what their nutritional philosophy regarding LBP’s is. Some companies are running on the old tired myth that protein is the main cause of bone growth disorders, dispite this theory being debunked some 20 years ago. They put so much emphasis on low protein that they ignore the calcium content.

Some companies list their “nutrient analysis” right there on their website, which I love! Some do not and you have to email the company and ask for it. Reason this is important is because there is a great tool on DFA here in that thread we orginally were talking on that lets you put in the MAX calcium, MAX phos and the calories/kg of the food and it tells you the calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio. However, you can not use the MIN numbers found on the bag. It does not tell you the true amount of calcium contained in the food. When using the MIN numbers, just about every food on the market would look LBP safe lol.

When it comes to feeding guidelines on the bag, they are simply a guideline. NB is a lower calorie food, so in order to meet the dogs daily caloric requirements, more food needs to be fed. Higher calorie foods would require less. One issue with feeding SO much less than the guidelines is the dog becoming nutrient deficient over time.

A lot of factors come in to play in keeping a dog lean. Being spayed/neutered will decrease metabolism, being less active, consuming too many calories in ratio to what is being burned. Personally, I would reward with something like green beans instead of the Zuke’s treats you are using if you are doing a lot of training with her and she is getting a lot of treats. We don’t use a lot of treats in my house because I’m very careful with my dogs weight. I have 3 kinds of treats right now, each with different kcals/treat and I use them based on how much excersize I feel they have done that day. Many days they don’t get a treat at all because I’m also incorporating raw into their kibble, so that takes up the calories of the treats. Praise is also a good training reward vs a treat.

[pitlove]

Hi Jacob-

It is not possible for a dry kibble to only consist of meat and nothing else. The food can not stay together without a starch.

[pitlove]

Canidae does have their own plant called Ethos. I’m not sure if all of the production has shifted to that plant or if Diamond still makes some of the formulas. I would email Canidae directly and ask specficially about the one you bought.

[pitlove]

Hi Darek-

Yes what you are doing is fine. Tripett has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio, so it can safely be given each meal the way you are using it.

[pitlove]

Hi Michelle-

Would you be able to explain his/her symptoms to me the best you can and when you notice them? Do the symptoms ever go away? If so, when?

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

To answer your first question, those numbers are the recommendation from the NRC (National Research Council) which in conjuntion with AAFCO, sets the minimums for the nutrient profiles in all dog foods. As far as I know there is no legal obligation to NRC for companies unlike AAFCO, however they influence AAFCO greatly and are a good rule of thumb. These are nutrient guidelines you would want to consider in preparing homemade and raw diets as well.

For number 2, my best advice is what you already know. Keep them lean, all throughout life. I find that I can still feed my older large breed (8 year old 75lb Lab) high calorie foods, but still keep him at a good weight, so long as I consider his activity level and any extras that he gets. I also do prefer leaner meats like chicken, turkey and fish. The other thing that certainly helps their metabolism is them being intact. It’s going to be much different with neutered/spayed dogs, as their energy requirements change. It’s said now, with some of the new research, that senior dogs require more of a high quality protein because of their inability to metabolize protein as efficently as their adult counterparts. Some still argue that high protein damages the kidneys etc. Others argue that processing excess protein is a passive process of the kidneys and has no effect on a healthy dog.

[pitlove]

Hi gmc-

No I have not looked into the new PetKind tripe dry food, so I could not tell you. Well not for large breed puppies at least.

[pitlove]

Truthfully the best topper and only one I would recommend for a large breed puppy is Tripett. It has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio.

[pitlove]

Hi Danielle-

The ratings on this website do not reflect disgestibility or bioavaialability of nutrients. These things are far more important to consider than a star rating. Also keeping in mind you will need a large breed puppy food. I would take a look at Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not grain free) and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy.

[pitlove]

I believe you are looking at the Grain Free version. I’m not. I’m looking at the original grain inclusive formula

Kinesis

[pitlove]

Hi Elizabeth-

Regarding the weight issue…26lbs to around 15 is a pretty big jump. I would start slow like you said and feed for 20lbs, then re-weigh him to see the progress. Once he hits 20lbs feed for 15. After that you simply would feed to maintain 15 lbs.

Also I would suggest using this tool, as it takes activity level into account: /dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

I find it to be much more accurate than the bag, though both are still just a guideline.

Yes, 3 calories is very low for a treat, however it makes a difference how many he’s getting daily. It is easy to assume that you can overfeed a 3 calorie treat and it won’t make much of a difference, but over time it does. Is there any particular reason they need treats? If not, I would eliminate them and reward with pets and praise. Both work just as well as a treat.

[pitlove]

Hi Rikki and welcome-

I can appreciate your desire for science based medicine. To touch on a the points you hit on, no protein is not a factor in terms of correct growth for large and giant breeds. However, Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN states on her website petdiets.com, that growing puppies do not require a food with more than 25% protein.

Absolutely, by no means, should you feed your mastiff an adult maintenance diet. This is a tired old myth still thought to be true because it “worked” 30 years ago. Companies are now producing large breed puppy diets designed specificially for slow growth.

The safe upper limit for your calcium and phos ratio is 1.5:1. However, you also need to pay attention to the calcium to calorie ratio as well to keep the pup lean during growth. Overfeeding is a huge factor in devlopmental orthopedic disorders.

As for the choice of food….the two companies that have done the most research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition are Hill’s and Purina. Selecting a large breed puppy diet from either of those companies would be fine. I do understand that some are opposed to using a food from either of those two companies. Dr. Tim’s Kinesis which you mentioned earlier, is safe for a growing giant breed, is formulated by a vet and a nutritionist and has been feed trialed. All qualities that are excellent to have in a food. Not to mention it comes in a 44lb bag on chewy.com. This would probably be my first choice for a budget friendly, good large breed puppy food, not from Hill’s or Purina.

Here is a good article to read that is posted on DFA here:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

and this is another from the persepctive of a veterinary nutritionist, that outlines DOD’s and large breed puppy nutrition fairly well:

https://msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm

[pitlove]

Hi Valarie-

I responded to you on the Large and Giant Breed Puppy nutrition thread, but for the sake of keeping that thread on topic lets chat more here after you read my post!!

[pitlove]

Hi Valarie-

My pitbull experiences several different symptoms, each related to different sets of allergies. When he has a reaction to food he develops a red mouth, acne bumps on his mouth and inbetween his digits becomes raw, red and yeast starts to grow. When he is having symptoms of his allergies related to the outside environment he gets sores and flakey oily patches of skin on the under side of his belly (similar to yours) and on his sides by his ribs.

For his food allergies, we did a food trial through the vet using Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein for 2 months, to diganose it. After that we switched to Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. It is corn, wheat and soy free, but not grain free and is fish based. This cleared up all of his food related symptoms and he actually likes it. He is not a fan of fish based foods normally (we have tried many of the “higher end” brands). We stay away from all red meat for my boy because he has been known to be sensitive to beef and lamb. Fish is usually safe for most allergy dogs (but that is not always the case).

Unfortunetly for the environmental allergies, he will continue to get those symptoms every year around this time. We live in Louisiana, so we don’t really have a true winter and our summers are terrible. It’s not a great place for dogs with allergies lol. Best advice I can give you is limit exposure to the outside (no more laying outside on the porch 🙁 ) and bathe him twice a week in Malaseb shampoo. If he does have any excess yeast from his immune system being suppressed by the allergies, this will kill it. It is also very gentle and makes their fur nice and soft.

Don’t forget though, your boy could also be reacting to something in his indoor environment. This is where environmental allergies get very complex. These things can be dignosed vis blood tests through a dematologist or the vet, but it is expensive. Very expensive. If you can afford it though, it’s worth it. Also consider washing his bedding etc in something like ALL free clear which has no dyes or perfumes.

You can purchase it here: https://www.chewy.com/malaseb-medicated-shampoo-dogs-cats/dp/119234

We changed Bentley’s diet many times too before realizing that we were just changing his diet to different brands with similar proteins and not trying something new for him (in his case fish). I would highly recommend doing a food trial through your vet with the Royal Canin prescription food if you think food is an issue. Personally though, your pitties symptoms to me, don’t sound food related, but you never know.

Hope this was helpful!

[pitlove]

Yes, this has thread has become a great platform, for those who are passionate or have questions, to dicuss the unique dietary needs of large and giant breed puppies.

That is awesome! It is refreshing to see someone put thought and effort into a raw diet for giant puppies rather than just taking any old recipe off the internet.

That is wonderful that you breed and do rescue work. I dislike that responsible breeders get a bad rap. The next puppy I will most likely be getting is a Cane Corso and I already have a breeder picked out. I’ve seen one of her puppies first hand at the small pet store I work for and he was stellar! Thank you for the work that you do with pitbulls. I am a pitbull owner, advocate and lover myself. They need more support!

Umm, I kind of forgot how to post pictures myself lol. Let’s see if I can remember…

No I keep failing trying to do it…

[pitlove]

I totally agree about keeping all large and giant breeds lean. I have 2 big guys and I am very picky about the way I feed them and how lean they are! My 8 year old Lab still has good mobility and can run like crazy.

I take it you breed Saints? Did you work with a nutritionist for your recipes for the puppies?
I would be highly nervous too about feeding a homemade raw diet to a giant breed puppy, but it sounds like you put a lot of work into it before trying it out on the litter.

Post some pictures if you have any!!

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

Great advice! I am a huge advocate for keeping dogs lean (4/9 BCS). Do you feed your St. Bernard puppies raw? Or do you feed a balanced kibble until they are finished growing and then switch to raw?

[pitlove]

Thanks for the update, Jeff! Glad to hear you found a food that is working so well.

[pitlove]

Hi gmcbogger38-

Grain free and grain inclusive are a non-factor in proper growth for a large or giant breed. Whichever route you choose the only things that matter and effect growth is the calcium and making sure you keep the dog at an optimal weight. Of course genetics will always factor in, but nutritionists are finding that a proper diet greatly improves the chances of avoiding DOD’s.

[pitlove]

Hi Hannah-

If you are interested in trying to homecook there are a few things you can do to make sure the meals are properly balanced. Best thing would be working with a board certified veterinary nutritionist, however that can be expensive. Another option is Wysong’s Call of the Wild supplement.

http://www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php

[pitlove]

Yes you can mix Trippett with dry.

I find Orijen to be too expensive. I think there are better foods out there that are much cheaper. I think my two personal favorites at this time are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy.

[pitlove]

Personally, I would wait on the raw diet til she is older if she already has a curved back. I personally do not know if the curvature is something that can be fixed or not at this point. I think you need to find a large breed puppy food that she enjoys eating and stick closely to the feeding guidelines until she is 18 months old. If you want to supplement with something to encourage her to eat the only thing I would recommend is Trippett.

https://www.chewy.com/petkind-tripett-original-formula/dp/44461

[pitlove]

Hi Triet-

Has the 7 month old gone to the vet? If so, what did he/she say about the curved back? If she hasn’t gone I would bring her.

It is very important to feed 2 meals a day and measure out each meal. Overfeeding can cause issues with bone growth and joints.

Also you do not need to use a supplement when feeding a food that is properly balanced for a large breed puppy. Stop the supplement ASAP. It is probably doing more harm than good.

[pitlove]

Hey all here is the response I got:

You submitted the following question to the PetDiets website.

Your Question:
In regards to large breed puppy foods. Is it safe for the calcium to calorie ratio to fall below 3g/1000 kcals?

Response from our Nutritionist:
The NRC 2006 min is 2.0 g Ca/Mcal for growth and we know no different for large puppies.

Respectfully,
R Remillard, PhD, DVM, DACVN

[pitlove]

Hi D L M-

I wouldn’t say there is a specific food that neutered dogs do better on than the other. Some choose to use lower calorie foods, since neutering/spaying decreases metabolism. I think the most important thing to think about when feeding an altered dog vs an intact dog is calories. Most pet parents will not adjust the dogs daily caloric intake when they neuter or spay the dog. That is what causes the weight gain.

I’ve had great success using the Dog Food Calculator tool on the homepage of this website. For your dog I would choose the option “Senior, Neutered, Inactive” for activity level.

/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

[pitlove]

Hi Sally and Wabi-

I’ve just posted this question to Dr.Rebecca Remillards website. She is a board certified veterinary nutritionist. I will post the answer when she gets back to me. I asked if the LBP diet could fall below 3g/1000 kcals and still be safe.

[pitlove]

I’m sorry, I actually believe I made an error in saying “lower”. I don’t know if lower is actually bad, but I believe most will be a bit over 3g/1000 kcal. Which Fromm formula were you talking about and can you give me the info you have on it?

[pitlove]

Hi Wabi-

Only 2 of Taste of the Wilds formulas are safe for a growing large breed puppy. Those would be both of their formulas that say “puppy” on the bag, however they are all lifestages foods.

The recommended calcium to calorie ratio for a large breed puppy food is 3g/1000 kcal or lower and should not exceed the safe upper limit of 4.5g.

[pitlove]

Hi Susan-

It has not been recommended for over 20 years (it’s been this long since we learned what truly causes DOD’s) to feed a large breed puppy an adult maintenance formula. There are plenty of correctly formulated large breed puppy foods out there now to risk it with an adult maintenance formula. Protein is also a non-factor for proper growth.

Larger kibble and probiotics don’t even begin to address the dietary needs of a LBP.

[pitlove]

Sally- Awesome! I’m glad you found another option. You are very welcome for mentioning the calcium to calorie ratio!

goldenstar- I understand where you are coming from and I wasn’t suggesting that you take care of your animal in a way that makes you uncomfortable. At the end of the day, how anyone chooses to feed or raise their dog has no impact on my life. I have a passion for nutrition and large breed puppy growth so I enjoy discussing it with others and passing on information I’ve learned from nutritionists. I agree that food plays a big role in health, but I do feel there is more to health than that as I said. Have you considered having a homecooked diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist for a large breed puppy? You may also wanna check out BalanceIt.com to see if they have a premade free recipe that is safe for LBP’s.

[pitlove]

Sally- You’re welcome!!

Goldenstar- Unfortuntely Golden Retrivers are prone to cancer. Personally Im not sure how much science there is behind that whole argument that kibble can cause cancer. I think some dogs have higher risk factors for it for many different reasons that we may be totally unaware of. Breed certainly can play a role, as does breeding.

When I started my quest to learn about canine nutrition a lot of what I started reading on here and other Internet forums scared the heck out of me. After about a year of feeling like at every turn I was gonna shorten my dogs life span because of this and that, I stopped and took a deep breath and relaxed. I think some people over analysis the world down to the finest detail to the point where they can’t even live a fully happy life. I do not want to live that way. I feed my dogs kibble, some canned ocassionally. But really there is more to a healthy dog than the food they eat.

I follow a family on YouTube with 3 huskies who had their first husky pass away a few years ago. She was sick on and off her whole life because she was a puppy mill dog (they bought her from the pet store in an attempt to rescue her). They live in Michigan and they sled their dogs, camp with their dogs, do agility with them. I mean the way they treat their dogs is beyond amazing. That husky lived to be 11 years old and yes she ate kibble her whole life. I firmly believe the way they took care of her played a bigger role in why she lived so long.

[pitlove]

Hi goldenstar-

You are very welcome. The ratio of calcium to calories is often overlooked, but very important when it comes to LBP growth. Overnutrition (overfeeding) is a huge risk factor for DOD’s in large breeds. Watching calcium intake is so over emphasized now that the calories and creating a fat puppy are overlooked.

I would take what you hear on the internet about “the optimal diet for a dog” with a grain of salt. Here is an interesting article on raw diets that I found through Dr. Susan Wynn’s facebook. She is a holistic vet and veterinary nutritionist.

https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2014/12/12/your-dog-is-not-a-wolf-stop-trying-to-feed-it-like-one/

The author is a prey model raw feeder fyi.

[pitlove]

Hi Sally-

Yes the calcium to phosphorus ratio for Stella & Chewy’s seem to be fine, however you also have to be concerned with the calcium to calorie ratio. If that is too high, the food is not LBP safe dispite having an appropriate calcium to phos ratio.

To Jacob-

Rotating diets is not a bad thing. If you feel better switching from grain inclusive to grain free that is fine as well. I wouldn’t go overboard personally. I would pick 2-3 brands that have LBP safe foods and you could rotate those and then build more variety once you see the eating habits of the dog.

If I had to pick 3 grain free LBP foods Nulo Puppy would be my first choice since Nulo is one of the few companies that staff a full time veterinary nutritionist, second choice would be Fromm Prairie Gold Large Breed Puppy and lastly would be Orijen Large Breed Puppy.

I used to be very swayed by the grain free trend. I firmly believed that if you fed your dogs grain you were a terrible pet parent. Then I got a grip on reality. My dogs (even the one with allergies) do much better on a grain inclusive food. I also have a Chocolate Lab, who was found as a stray. No allergy issues at all. I think there is a place for grain free diets and they are beneficial to those dogs that need them, but I find that the vast majority of pet owners who want to feed grain free don’t even really know why they want to. They have just “heard” it was better and didn’t stop to question that authority.

[pitlove]

Hi Jacob-

Basically here’s the thing. Companies like Hill’s and Purina have put in years of research into the topic of proper growth and nutrition for large breeds. Royal Canin to an extent but not as much as the other two. In reality these foods are better to use because of how much research is backing them.

Also in reference to All Life Stages foods; no they are not all appropriate for large breed puppies. A lot of companies will not provide a nutrient analysis on their website so you will have to do some leg work and contact them and ask for their MAX levels of calcium and phosphorus in their All Life Stages or growth diets.

Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy are 2 excellent foods that you can purchase through chewy.com. Dr. Tim’s has been feed trialed as well which is important.

Fromm would out rank Royal Canin for a lot of people simply because they like the way the ingredients look. Both will let the dog grow properly. RC is just a bigger company that does feed trials and conducts their own research so from the view point of a veterinary nutritionist, RC beats Fromm.

Blue Buffalo is a tad shady of a company and I personally do not feel comfortable recommending them and I wouldn’t use their products again (I did when my pitbull was little).

[pitlove]

Hi Jacob-

Grain free is inconsequencial to the proper growth of the dog, which is the ultimate and most important goal that should be focused on. Grain free also is not inherently better for allergies (especially ones that may or may not manifest themselves). I would focus more on finding a food that will help your dog grow properly and less on marketing gimmicks. However, if you are 100% positive that you need to feed grain free Nulo Puppy is a grain free food formulated by a veterinary nutritionist, that is safe for large and giant breed puppies.

As far as what is available to you at PetSmart, the only brands I would recommend from there is Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy, Science Diet Large Breed Puppy, Royal Canin Maxi Puppy and Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy. The other brands I would recommend you would have to purchase online or at a speciality pet store.

[pitlove]

Hi Linda-

I would take a look at either Dr. Tim’s (specifially his Kinesis formula) or NutriSource. Both excellent brands and easy on the stomach!

[pitlove]

Hi Mary-

You wrote this a day ago, so I am guessing Baby Girl has seen the vet as of today? How is she doing? Does the vet know what the problem is?

I’m curious as to where your Chihuahua’s came from since you are saying they both (Smalls and Baby Girl) had/are having the same exacts symptoms? Are they both from the same breeder? If so, you may want to contact him/her and let them know because this could be a genetic problem being passed down through litters. The breeding pair should be spayed/neutered at that point as to make sure they do not continue to have any further litters.

I hope Baby Girl pulls through!

[pitlove]

Hi goldenstar-

THK has been discussed a lot on the forums and on THK review on the review side of DFA. Per AAFCO, if a diet exceeds 4000kcals/kg you must correct for energy density. All of THK’s diets exceed 4000kcals/kg (including Love) and therefore when you correct for energy density many key nutrients are below AAFCO and NFC minimum’s.

[pitlove]

Hi Jeremy and Mike-

Congratulations on the new mastiff pups! They are wonderful dogs.

To you both: I would definitely caution against using THK as a sole diet for your growing puppies. The company itself is infamous for diets that are lacking in nutrients per AAFCO and the NRC. Using it supplementally is safe, but not long term by itself.

However, it does already sound like you both have decided to use a large breed puppy kibble base which is a much better idea. Tripett is a good choice for a canned topper since the calcium and phosphorus are very low and already balanced properly.

Most veterinary nutritionists recommend using a food from a larger company that invests in feeding trials. Obviously those companies being Hill’s and Purina. I do however understand that many do not feel comfortable using those brands. Dr.Tim’s Kinesis has also been feed trialed and is safe for large breed puppies.

Others that I recommend that meet the criteria for large breed puppies based on lab analysis are: Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy, Nulo Puppy(formulated by a veterinary nutritionist they have staffed), Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy, Solid Gold Wolf Cub.

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