[pitlove]

Hi Tracy-

Can you give us some more information on your dog? What breed? What was the ideal weight the vet wanted her to be at? What weight is she at now? Some people who have had an overweight dog for a long time have a hard time telling if the dog is now too skinny or at ideal weight once they lose the weight.

[pitlove]

Hi Robert-

Why is Timber on H/D? Does he have a heart condition? Or did you mean to say a different formula?

[pitlove]

I second what haleycookie said. This diet is dangerous.

[pitlove]

Hi Patti-

A large breed puppy food is NOT a breed specific food. We are not talking about a Corgi diet like how Royal Canin has a Lab, Rottweiler etc diet we are talking about feeding a large breed puppy food to Corgis because they develop the way large breeds develop though they are smaller.

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

What about Royal Canin are you not liking besides how much you are feeding? They make some great large breed puppy foods. If you can tell me more about your dog I can help with why you are feeding so much. There is also a possibility that you are over feeding him.

My favorite large breed puppy food is Pro Plan personally and it does not contain any of the ingredients your son is allergic to.

[pitlove]

Hi A C-

They work with a time release action. It is no different than you giving a monthly pill (whats going on inside the body that is), except you are giving one pill every 3 months. If you are concerned about a senior dog on Bravecto, you can ask the vet if there are any contraindications for senior pets, but I have never heard that before.

[pitlove]

Hi Tom-

Frontline is awful. Its essentially prevents fleas as well as water would. A C is probably talking about Bravecto which is a great product for an adulticide. However what I would recommend doing it using an insect growth inhibitor like Sentinel to prevent fleas in the environment and add in a product like Bravecto if/when you see adult fleas.

Do you currently have fleas on your dog or just looking for recommendations for prevention?

@haleycookie The price of Bravecto (at least at my clinic) goes by which weight range your dog falls in. Both my dogs use the 44-88lb pill so its 60$ before my discount.

[pitlove]

I think there are meat grinders available that are still good quality but not extremely expensive. You could also check Goodwill like Anon said or even Craigslist for people selling used ones for cheap. Also The Raw Feeding Community has a facebook page. People may have suggestions for you on that page for a cheap but good grinder.

As far as cancer goes, I don’t think its as one dimentional of a disease process as some of the holistic minded doctors are making it out to be. I know Rodney Habib and Karen Becker shout loud about how its kibble that is the leading cause of cancer, but they are missing so much of the bigger picture. Cancer is caused from genetics or environment or both. Sometimes it is genetic. That being that case, the dog eating raw isn’t going to prevent the cancer. There are also dogs on raw that will develop cancer. There is also breed disposition. Golden Retrievers are a prime example, but there is a small group of ethical breeders working very hard to breed cancer out of the breed. Our pets are living so much longer now due to vaccines and proper vet care that we are getting to see them live to older ages and see cancer develop. People say our pets werent getting cancer as frequently decades ago. But the quality of care we are providing our pets has grown a lot since then. I think it has more to do with that than kibble.

I don’t personally feed raw to my dogs, but I am not 100% against the idea of it. I understand the concept of feeding fresh foods to pets, just as humans try to eat fresh foods. I don’t however buy into the grain free, high protein etc etc kibble trend.

[pitlove]

You add a profile picture with gravatar.com

[pitlove]

Oh I see. Do you feed him other beef products? Yes beef products can all be at risk for this if the manufactuerer is using poor quality cuts of meat that contain the thyroid gland. But you won’t know until there is a recall.

As far as the anxiety/panting goes, yes dogs can certainly have anxiety, but many dogs are anxious because they are not being properly fullfilled in their life. Corgis are a herding breed and have strong drive and desire to work. Is he allowed to do any herding or does he do any sports were his mind is being challenged? Even something in your backyard like having him hunt for things or many Corgi owners commonly use whats called a “Jolly Ball” to teach their Corgis how to herd. You can buy these at most pet stores. If he’s given a job and a purpose you may find that he is more well adjusted. You could even walk him and allow him to wear a backpack to carry items of yours (not too heavy, but approrpiate for his size). If I do not exercise my dogs, especially my 4 year old, I notice they are a lot worse behaved and destructive. The same can be true for anxious dogs.

[pitlove]

Thank you for giving me the extra info. I was not trying to insult you and say you didn’t know what you were doing, but you did not give me enough info to know that you did know how to balance the 80/10/10 ratio properly. I see from your further explanation that you had the right idea.

I would continue what you are doing and just watch the dogs closely out in the yard to make sure they don’t catch any more wild prey.

[pitlove]

If the “Average Lab Data” on their website is in fact their typical values for ca/phos then yes the diet would be fine according to the calculator tool.

Please remember regarding Hound Dog Mom’s list 2 things. 1) There are 2 lists and B) it is extremely outdated. Most companies have changed their formulas more than once by now. You still always want to contact the company.

[pitlove]

Hi Gee-

We just had a Westie come in to my clinic yesterday that one of the main concerns the owner had was excessive panting. She ended up having a splenic tumor which we had to remove. Have you had an ultrasound done or only chest x-rays? Also is your dog overweight? I’ve seen more overweight Corgis than fit Corgis unfortunetly and being overweight for that breed (any breed though) is extremely dangerous. The panting could be caused by that as well.

Also how long have you been giving the Merrick treats and did the panting occur around the time you got the last effected batch or way before then?

[pitlove]

You would have to give me more detail on your meal prep for me to really be able to see what you were doing. From your statement above your dogs were getting organ meat and RMBs but fish only once a week. Muscle meat should be the 80%. Also certain organs are fed as muscle meat in the Prey Model diet. So you have to take that into consideration too.

I don’t really like premade raw like Primal, Stella and Chewy’s etc but there is a service called https://www.wefeedraw.com/ that has prepared Prey Model Raw. It is not going to be as cheap as most dry food though. You have larger dogs too which always makes everything more expensive.

[pitlove]

Hi Ami-

I am unaware of Annamaet having a formula that would meet the needs of a growing large breed puppy. I would also not trust the representatives from the company to tell me that those formulas do meet the requirements. I would be emailing them back and asking for a “typical analysis” of each of the formulas you were told were appropriate. If they do not know what you are asking for or refuse to give it to you, do NOT use that company. If they DO give the typical analysis for those formulas you can then go to this thread /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/ and copy&paste the calcium, phos, and calories into the calculator to see if it is acceptable. I would also recommend reading the article as well.

Typically, the foods that are going to have truly correct large breed puppy formulas are from larger companies like Purina, Hill’s and Royal Canin. This is because they employ veterinary nutritionists who have higher education in the field of pet nutrition. They formulate the diets and keep up on all new studies and research being done on these subjects.

[pitlove]

Hi Nicole-

There are folks out there that do feed their puppies a raw diet, but if you are new to raw feeding I would not venture into that realm until he is an adult. Growth is an unforgiving lifestage and it is not easy to make sure a raw diet is being balanced correctly for puppies.

If you absolutely want to feed raw even when hes an adult following https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/ or http://mojoandfriends.blog/ would be a good place to start. The couple that runs Mojoandfriends blog just bought a Staffy Bull puppy and shes on a Prey Model Raw diet. Perhaps you could contact them and ask for advice.

[pitlove]

Hi Tiffany-

Couple things. The diet that you mentioned was not in fact properly balanced. It sounds like you were trying to do a Prey Model Raw diet, but not following the 80/10/10 rule consistantly everyday. If you want to see how to properly feed a Prey Model Raw diet follow “The Raw Feeding Community” and I also like http://mojoandfriends.blog/.

Onto the sickness issue. My guess would be this is directly related to the wild rabbit they were allowed to eat. As Tyrion said above, wild rabbits/animals can carry a wide variety of parasites, hookworms included. Hookworms can and will cause GI issues like what you experienced. DO NOT allow the dogs to catch and eat wild prey again. This is asking for trouble. If you need to, I would even recommend purchasing your raw meals from a service like wefeedraw.com.

[pitlove]

Hi Charles-

Dogs only react to protein, not fat, carbs, vitamins or minerals. All of the ingredients mentioned above are either vitamins or minerals, so it is not possible for your dog to react to them as they contain no protein.

It is very possible that your dog has no food sensitivities at all and that the only issue is his environment. Has your vet mentioned doing an elimination diet for your dog? This is the golden standard for assessing food allergies, but it is challenging to do correctly. If you are interested in knowing more about how this works let me know and I’d be happy to explain.

[pitlove]

No, vomitting every time he eats is most certainly not normal. I am shocked that a vet told you that…

There is nothing wrong with getting a second opinion from another vet. I would suggest doing that. It is impossible for us to tell you what is wrong with your dog over the internet.

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

A raw diet is actually one of the most innappropriate diets for a growing large breed puppy. Calcium and phosphorus ratios are difficult to balance in a homemade raw diet which can most certainly lead to developmental orthopedic disorders. If you intend on feeding a raw diet to a large breed puppy it would be best to wait until he/she is fully grown or if you have a breeder that feeds raw and can prove that they have successfully transitioned their pups onto a raw food diet and had them grow optimally with no developmental issues, get that exact recipe from them and follow it to a T. Otherwise, it’s best to use a commercial dry food from a larger company that staffs nutritionists who formulate foods specifically for large breed puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

Yikes, that is a lot of food changes for such a young dog! I really wouldn’t expect you to see too much of a change in stool with that many food changes. It would be almost impossible for her GI system to adjust quick enough for you to see a change back to completely normal.

What does your mother feed the pups when she has a litter?

[pitlove]

I’m not sure. I haven’t looked that hard, but I’ve heard a lot of good things about that company. It used to be called ReelRaw.

[pitlove]

Hi puppypiles-

Yes Corgis are technically suppose to be a fed a large breed puppy formula because they are often plagued with the same growth disorders large breeds get.

For puppies the best thing to do is use a commercially available dry food that is suited for the growth of large breed puppies and then once he/she is an adult switch to a raw diet. You also can talk to the breeder or multiple breeders and see what they recommend. Make sure you are talking to breeders that know what they are doing though.

[pitlove]

Hi Vishakha-

I have yet to find a brand of raw that makes bags large enough to last a month for larger sized dogs. I guess they feel it would be so expensive that it would discourage people from buying it. Not really sure.

There are services out there like https://www.wefeedraw.com/ where they ship you pre-packaged raw food enough for either 2 weeks or 4 weeks. This is a prey model raw diet however.

[pitlove]

Hi Brianne-

While we have textbooks that list out symptoms a dog should have given a particular disease, our dogs don’t follow the textbook and can present in ways other than what they “should” present as. For instance, if a dog had cancer you would think their bloodwork would be completely off the wall crazy, but I’ve seen perfect bloodwork with dogs that are known cancer patients.

When you run bloodwork and the value exceeds what the computer can read it does not matter what the number is, it still means it is too high. His diagnosis would not change if it was 2,000 or 4,000. There is a normal range for amylase and lipase levels and his were well out of the normal range. If he is doing well on the current diet, he needs to remain on that diet until those levels have come back to a normal range. Then you can explore another food.

Also, intermittent vomitting is not normal at all. I see clients daily that believe it is normal for their dog to vomit on occassion and as long as it is not frequent they are fine. This is not the case. Once you get the pancreatitis under control I would consider moving away from Blue Buffalo. It is not a very good company or product in general and it’s clear your dog actually was not doing well on it (picky behavior, vomitting).

[pitlove]

Hi Jessica-

Since you have a dog with food sensitivities, the issue is not so much the lower of the amount of meat in the food, but whether or not they have added any other proteins to the diet. I also wouldn’t stress over whether or not it will remain a 5 star food. The rating DFA gives the food has no correllation to why your Frenchie has done well on it.

However, if your concern IS the fact that they have added more fruits/veggies and you are trying to stay with more of a meat based diet, you could consider a Prey Model Raw diet like the ones provided from https://www.wefeedraw.com/

[pitlove]

Thankfully with Purina its all science. Thats part of the reason I love the company so much. I like the Sport 26/16 formula because my AmStaff has skin and stomach issues and that is the current formula that he does best on.

For a healthy dog with no issues, the sky is the limit. Since you are saying hes been picky as of late, you could try the Savor line. My dogs always go nuts for the shredded pieces of chicken in that line.

And now that he is an adult too if you really wanted to switch him to another brand you could. He is past the critical growth period of his life where you would want to feed a food like Purina to make sure hes getting proper nutrition. As long as the food says it is “complete and balanced” you can venture out to another brand.

[pitlove]

Hey Matt-

Thanks for the update. Sounds like your boy is doing well.

Yes he should be ready to begin transitioning to an adult food now. I do use proplan for my adults too yes. I’ve used the savor, focus and sport lines. The sport line is my favorite, specifically the 26/16 formula. However if you want to you can go to the large breed adult and they even make a giant breed adult too.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by pitlove.

[pitlove]

Hi Craig-

It does seem like a decent value food if that is what you need. I’d say there is probably not much different about it than any other dog food. At least nothing that we would be able to decypher just by reading the ingredient list. Haleycookie is probably right about the star rating it would likely recieve. 3 1/2 maybe 4 stars is my guess. However, star rating on here does not tell you a lot about the food or how your dog will do on it. If you are interested in trying it, go ahead and do so and see how your dogs do.

[pitlove]

Good! Glad to hear hes back to a healthy weight.

[pitlove]

Might I ask why he is on a weight control formula then?

[pitlove]

Hi Sanford-

Since Earthborn states that is a complete and balanced food, there is no reason to add this type of supplement to your pets diet.

The only type of supplement that I would encouragee you to add since it sounds like your dog is overweight is a fish oil or glucosamine supplement to help slow down arthritis.

[pitlove]

Sounds good. Keep us updated

[pitlove]

There is no set transition length. You need to monitor the dogs stool and if you need to take a step back then you do so. Let the dog tell you how the transition is going.

I’m not big on Nutro. Hill’s or Royal Canin would be good. What type of stores are you shopping at?

[pitlove]

Although internet rumor claims corn to be high on the allergenic scale, it’s truly not. As I said, the itching could have been from their coat drying out/skin drying out since the Iams maybe did not have enough fatty acids for them. I’m in doubt that it is related to a food allergy.

No I dont think you’ve ruined their GI systems, but you may want to consider a longer than 10 day transition at this point.

[pitlove]

If they are both or even one of them is expected to be 50lbs or more when they mature, yes. This will ensure optimal slow growth and reduce their chances of developing bone disorders from growing too quickly. This is a problem that you can see in early life or sometimes it doesn’t show up until later in life as well. Genetics will play a role in this, not just nutrition.

Something about LA clearly isn’t agreeing with them, or their food has been switched too many times at this point being so young. I’ve suggested Pro Plan to many folks asking questions in the large breed puppy thread and have heard nothing but positive feedback. Many owners having the same issues you are having. I think it would be worth a shot for your dogs as well.

[pitlove]

Hi Tom-

Something that the breeder may or may not (but should have mentioned) is that anytime you bring home a new puppy it is important that they stay on the same food the breeder had them on for 3-4 weeks before doing a slow transition to a new diet. This is to prevent the issue you are having. Moving is stressful for them and stress coupled with a food switch (even though you did it over 10 days) can cause GI distress.

It sounds like they were doing best on Iams large breed puppy. This is what I would have them on. The itching could be a coincidence or perhaps they had a couple fleas that you never saw. It is almost a slim to none chance that they BOTH are itching due to a food allergy. Not much logic there.

Merrick has no food appropriate for a large breed puppy last I knew and the only thing I know about Life’s Abundance is that their sales reps are very annoying and the main reason breeders use the food is because they make a profit off it. It’s nothing special.

If you truly do not want them back on Iams because of the dull coats, I would try Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. My dogs have beautiful coats on Pro Plan, stool is perfect and the food is highly digestable.

[pitlove]

In fact someone just asked this same question to her not too long ago. Heres the question and her answer:

“I have been told large breed puppy food can be bad for my dane puppy. People tell me to switch to adult food saying the puppy food is too high in protein.
Should I stick with diamond large breed puppy, or switch to the adult brand.
15 week’s. Male greatdane/stbernard mix.
Thank you!”

1. Protein intake is not the problem with Developmental Bone Diseases in large breed dogs …. so these “people” are about 20 yrs out of date.
2. Yes stick with a large breed puppy food because the problem is really Calcium intake and AAFCO has set the maximum at 1.8% Ca on a dry matter basis to help protect these growing dogs.
3. Adult brands actually contain too much calcium when you do the math correctly based on calorie intake, so that is not advisable until 12-15 months of age.

https://petdiets.com/Ask-the-Nutritionist

[pitlove]

An orthopedic surgeon is not a veterinary nutritionist. Their speciality is in surgery, not in nutrition. If you would like to hear it from the horses mouth, you can go to petdiets.com and under their “Ask the Nutritionist” section pose the question. Dr. Rebecca Remillard who is a boarded veterinary nutritionist has repeatedly on that site said that it is NO longer recommended to switch large breed puppies to adult foods at a young age. There is simply no reason to now that so many companies have created foods that meet the growth requirements for large breed pups. Back 30-40 years ago, this was not the case, so adult foods were used.

[pitlove]

The vets you have talked to are dead wrong and using our dated information. Large breed puppies MUST stay on a large breed puppy appropriate food until 18 months of age.

[pitlove]

Hi Patricia-

Weight loss is all about calories. The dog must burn off more calories than he/she is taking in in order to maintain a healthy weight or lose weight. 1 freeze-dried patty as a topper, plus an amount of kibble that you have not mentioned, for a Chihuahua sounds like a lot of food. Is she going for walks daily? Is she getting out in the yard with you and doing activities that allow for her to burn off energy?

A freeze-dried topper, though seemingly healthy, may not be appropriate for your dogs current lifestyle and could be causing more problems than not. My suggestion would be to go back to using canned food as a topper for her if she was a healthy weight when that was her diet. Also please cut out any treats she is getting and replace those with petting, attention, walks or another form of excerise. That is the best way to love our dogs.

[pitlove]

Hi John-

I do truly hate to dissapoint you, but what you are focusing on in terms of finding a proper food is neither here nor there and does not impact the growth of the puppy. Also your concerns with that particular websites findings should not be at the forefront when choosing a proper large breed puppy food. This website has not been willing to release data to the public on any of their testing or the vadility of it, so until they do, I encourage you to focus on the aspect of nutrition you can control which is finding a food with appropriate calcium/phos ratios and keeping your Ridgebacks lean.

This may possibly mean when your 10 month old reachs 18 months and he is moved to an adult food that your pups are on 2 different foods. Until then, select a food labeled for growth according to the AAFCO statement and one that is labeled for Large Breed Puppies from a company of your choosing.

[pitlove]

Hi Steve-

Not sure about the group you got your Greyhound from, but the one in my area is amazing. The woman that runs it is always happy to help adopters with any issues they have and she knows the breed like the back of her own hand. Perhaps you could reach out to the person that runs the group you adopted from? Sounds like he wasn’t treated very well at his last home and might need some help with socialization.

[pitlove]

I have not personally used the consultation services myself no. I do know certain things change when the meats are cooked, so you could not say, take a recipe they have up on that site and just use the same values but feed it raw. You may be able to contact Dr. Susan Wynn for a consult. She does deal with raw and is also a veterinary nutritionist.

Glad you liked Mojo’s videos. I do find her owners to be good sources of information personally.

[pitlove]

Hi Patricia-

If she is not getting a lot of excerise and is perhaps getting too many calories/fat on top of that, that is likely why she is gaining weight. You will need to find out exactly how many calories per day she needs to eat based on her activity level and see if you are over feeding her.

Here is a good link for you: /dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

All the snacks she is getting aside from the string beans are going to add up in calories as well if she is not active.

[pitlove]

Hi again Airseabattle-

I think you will really enjoy BalanceIt.com. It’s a great website. If you decide to use their consultation service they can contact your vet and get any records needed to formulate a proper diet for your dog.

Also if you do end up staying on raw here is a link to a blog that I like. I feel this couple has successfully done a Prey Model Raw diet with their Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They have a YouTube and Insta gram page as well. http://mojoandfriends.blog/dog/

They have information about Mojo’s diet and other dog related things as well. They are also super nice people and if you comment on their Insta gram page are really nice.

As far as the debate on genetics vs environment goes… I will say that I disagree that pure bred dogs are unhealthy. Especially when purchased from an ethical, responsible breeder. These breeders are health testing these dogs, and spaying/neutering dogs that are not fit to be in their breeding program, so as not to put bad genetics into the population. Mixed breed dogs of unknown origin in my opinion are just as likely to be a walking health problem and vet bill, as a pure bred dog from a BYB. I’d personally rather a pure bred dog whos lineage and parents, grandparents, great grand parents, etc health I know. Kudos to you for supporting a responsible breeder and doing your homework on the breed/breeders.

[pitlove]

Hi Rick-

No, supposed quality of a food has nothing to do with how much you feed. It is revolved entirely around the amount of kcals per cup.

Just as an example. Orijen is considered still by a lot of people to be one of the best dry dog foods. The Orijen “Original” is 449 kcals/cup. My dog for his weight would eat 2cups a day according to their website. Now when I look up Purina Dog Chow, considered one of the WORST dog foods by many, it is 419 kcals/cup. According to their feeding guidelines for my dog, he would eat roughly 2 cups a day as well.

[pitlove]

Hi Jo C-

There is no accurate test out there for food allergies. The serum testing is notorious for false positives and false negatives.

Each of those are different immunoglobulins in the body that are responsible for setting off certain histamine reactions. This SHOULD have been explained to you by the doctor that did the testing, but clearly it was not which makes these results useless as you can’t interpert them well.

If you want to do this correctly, you will need to start over and conduct a proper elimination diet. It is the gold standard for accessing food allergies. An elimination diet can be done a couple different ways.

Option 1: A home cooked diet of a single novel protein (something your dog has never had before) and a single carbohydrate (again, one your dog has never had before). This is to be the SOLE diet for 3 months. No treats, no table scraps, no flavored medications, no food from other pets, no dental chews, nothing at all but the diet.

Option 2: A commercially prepared hydrolyzed protein diet from the vet’s office. Same rules apply here. With these diets the protein molecules are so small that the bodys immune system does not recognize them as a threat and will not form a histamine reaction.

Once the 3 months is up, you can then do a food challenge and reintroduce the old food to see if the symptoms come back. If the dog is positive for food allergies, he/she should have improved over the course of the elimination trial. If the allergies are due to something in the environment, its likely no change in symptoms would occur.

This is very hard to do for most pet owners, but when done correctly will give you a definite answer as to if the dog has food allergies. Sorry, to say, but I would throw out your results from the serum test and see if you can get your money back. There has been an overwhelming amount of research proving that the reliability of those tests is very low.

[pitlove]

Hi Airseasbattle-

You said: ” I tried again in smaller quantities and this she held down.”

I think you just answered your own question. She may need smaller meals to transition over to raw/homecooked.

Also BalanceIt.com is run by boarded vet nutritionists and has recipes for homecooked meals. Some are free, some you would have to pay for. You can also use the site to do consults with them, but there is a fee of course.

[pitlove]

Hi Jeanne-

I would not recommend American Journey for a large breed puppy or any dog for that matter. It is a chewy.com owned brand and chewy.com refuses to state who manufactures the food. Red flag to me instantly.

Find a company that makes a food that actually states “large breed puppy” on the bag. It would also just be easier to feed whatever your breeder was using. That or use a food from a larger realiable company like Purina.

DO NOT EVER put your puppy on an adult food before they are done growing. This is an old practice that was done BEFORE the development of appropriate large breed puppy foods. Adult foods are not designed to support a puppy through growth and will have far too much calcium and phos for them causing rapid growth.

[Author]

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