[GSDsForever]

I am receiving error/blocked messages from CloudFare, following 2 posts to an OP (from another forum thread), saying I’ve been “rate limited” and thereby temporarily “banned” (!???) by the website owner.

I do not understand. What? Why? Huh?

Could Mike, a mod, or someone please explain or help?

I’ve been a member posting here for years.

Typing this from my IPhone — still can’t post otherwise, though I wanted to continue to engage with the community here re the DCM-legumes/Potatoes BEG FDA issue.

Thanks.

[haleycookie]

What do you think corn gluten and wheat gluten are? They’re cheap protein upping ingredients the big companies use. Use meat based foods with the carb ingredient 3 or more ingredients down. Those are the companies that are spending buckets on quality meat sources in their foods. Purina is crap, blue is crap, Royal Canin are all cheaply made crap for insane prices. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Dogs DO NOT need carbs. of any kind. Most dog food brands that have a kibble formula make their foods to be 40-50-60%+ carbs, you know why? Because they’re cheap. And dog owners are busy and want the cheapest food they can find so they can pour it in their dogs bowls and leave. If the big three actually used real non bias science they would recommend making a fresh lean meat diet low in carbs for your dogs NOT kibble. Kibble is over processed crap no matter what kind of “science” is behind it. There is no other argument against it and for some reason people have been so blindly guided by these companies that claim “science” it’s almost sickening to me. Feed your dog meat, not corn, not wheat, not peas, not potatoes, seems like a pretty easy answer to me.
The dcm “scare” has less and less meaning to me everyday as I read more and more people misinterpreting the fdas warning, and people who are buying into the big threes bias science so blindly. Its really a shame people don’t ask more questions before jumping to conclusions.

[Christopher F]

This product caused a serious adverse reaction in my dog, the company continues to charge my account on a recurring fee.

I tried Nutra Thrive a month ago after reading all of the great reviews and watching a compelling video. Just like anybody who would use this product, my dog’s health is a very high priority. And that’s exactly what this company preys on. People like me who would pay just about anything for my dog’s well-being are complete suckers for this product. It’s a waste of money (there are others that are a fraction of the price) and it’s dangerous. I have the vet bill to prove it.

The first day I added it to his food, I let my dog smell it before I sprinkled it into the bowl. He turned away immediately. It smelled like grass actually. It turned the food a dark green color when mixed in, as well, but I wasn’t concerned about that. My dog was a bit resistant to eat at first, but he acclimated.

After about a week on the product, my dog began scratching persistently, rubbing on furniture, and shaking his head. I didn’t suspect the Nutra Thrive at first, and gave my dog a bath. The bath did not relieve the itching. After three days, the symptoms were so severe, he wasn’t eating or sleeping. I took him to my veterinarian on an emergency visit, and I brought the Nutra Thrive with me, because nothing in the environment or his food was changed, except for the Nutra Thrive. When I showed it to my veterinarian, he told me to immediately discontinue use, and my dog was having a severe allergic reaction. Nutra Thrive isn’t based on science, rather it’s based on Dr. Richter’s personal experience.

He treated my dog with allergy shots and prescribed an ointment for his infected ear. After a few days off Nutra Thrive, he returned to normal, and his ear was healed up in about a week. Luckily, my dog is ok now. Although I have two unopened jars at home, I put this all behind me and moved on, until today.

Today, I received an email, confirming that ANOTHER order (that I DID NOT ORDER) has been shipped. According to USPS, the shipment had not yet been received by USPS when I checked the tracking number., though.

First, I didn’t / wouldn’t order this product again, and I wouldn’t need any, even if I did want to re-order. My dog is 30 pounds. Three jars is a three month supply. So if I were to reorder, I wouldn’t have needed another shipment until September. When I contacted customer service and told them I didn’t order this and my account should not have been charged, they hung up on me – TWICE.

When I called the third time, a gentleman told me that he’d have to send a return authorization form and I’ll have to mail the product when I receive it – even though USPS hadn’t even picked it up from their warehouse yet. I pointed out that USPS shows that it hasn’t even been scanned yet, so it must still be at their facility. He said he’d try a pre-ship cancellation, but didn’t think it would work. (What???)

I explained that I was unhappy with the product, and that it caused a severe reaction in my dog. He said he’s received training on Adverse Event Reporting, but had never heard of any reactions like this. He didn’t take an Adverse Event Report for this event.

I work with the US FDA on a daily basis, and I’m well versed in adverse event reporting requirements. I was surprised that the gentleman who took my call chose not to complete the AER. If your dog or cat experiences any kind of reaction after starting this supplement, you should discontinue use immediately. Adverse reactions to food and food supplements should be reported to the manufacturer AND to the US FDA. If your pet has experienced issues with this supplement, please submit a complaint on the FDA website in the Pet Food Safety Reporting Portal. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/report-problem/how-report-pet-food-complaint

The customer service representative also told me that I was (unknowingly) subscribed to receive monthly shipments. I never saw anything indicating I would be receiving monthly shipments, or I wouldn’t have ordered it. My bank told me about this type of scam in the past. They see this all the time. Companies will put in the fine print that you’re subscribing to something and you end up with monthly charges on your account.

I only live at the address they’re shipping to part-time. I won’t even be here when it does arrive, so they’ll leave it at the door where it’ll sit for around 10 days, unless it’s stolen first.

My Advice:
1. I do not recommend this product. Please consult your vet and discuss the ingredients before you try this product.
2. If your pet has experienced any type of adverse reaction, please submit a report to the US FDA Pet Food Safety Reporting Portal.
3. If you order anything from this company, be sure to read the fine print. They will charge you monthly. Be prepared to deal with rude customer service representatives, and uncooperative people. The gentleman I spoke with was very polite and professional, although he failed to take an Adverse Event Report, and did not inform me of the 90 Day guarantee.

[Ellie C]

Hi, I have a 5 year old french bulldog dying of PLE. I have taken him to many specialist and they tell me his prognosis isnt too good. He was on prednisone and chorambucil (chemo) and his protein levels kept dropping. We since stopped the chlorambucil and switched to cyclosporine and still he is not improving. He is started to be affected neurologically by the steroids (hallucinating and losing motor coordination). I have tapered down the prednisone to 2.5mg BID and he is still on cyclosporine but I’m hesitant to continue because I want his remaining time with me to be good and not full of side effects. Tonight I bought dandeliion root, CLA, and GNC superfood recommended by ChristiG on this thread. Ive also reached out to Rick Scheyer for help at http://www.doglivershunt.com. I am trying everything I possibly can. I really need help. His cholesterol is low (79), Total protein 3.8 (albumin 2.3, globulin 1.5), wbc 27,500 with sediment in the urine so suspect a UTI. Still trying to touch base with vet since its a holiday on what to do. Considering Gastrocom (sodium chromoglycolate) or olsalazine. I’ve only researched this and awaiting vet feedback. We see a holistic vet where he gets ozone, accupuncture, and chinese herbs. He also started a fecal transplant with animal biome. We need help! Please anyone advise. I am so scared to lose my baby. Located in bay area, willing to travel for assistance.

[Diane J]

Thank you, but no thank you, that wasn’t the type of answer I need right now. Btw, those food recalls are on man-made kibble-type raw foods, not actual raw feeding. There’s so much science to prove that raw feeding on the BARF/prey diet model is the best for our pets that this is a scandalously non-helpful response to a question like mine. Keep your non-raw feeding bias off of a raw feeding thread please.

[Clara]

I am planning to buy Dr. Marty’s Cat Food. What are the possible issues I can find with 90-Day Money Back Guarantee?
I read here ( https://petlovesbest.com/dr-marty-natures-feast-review/ ) that many of them are facing issues. I don’t want to waste my bucks if this is the real issue.

Admin can remove that link.

[AdinaFay]

Hey all,
Has anyone ever tried or looked into free-feeding supplements to their pooch that’s on a homemade or raw diet? I’m interested in if this has been done before or if there is a specific reason that it is /not/ done. It’s (at least as far as I am aware) standard practice for livestock and horses, and most dogs/cats will already self-regulate to a certain extent with behaviors such as grass-eating.

Background:
After struggling for two years with my 8lb mix’s allergies I’m committing to an elimination diet and, since that will be a long process of me making his meals, am also looking into proper balancing of homemade and raw meals. I don’t want to go a pre-made/balanced route because, at least for the first few months, they would defeat the point of the diet. I understand the concepts of balancing the diet as a whole, took animal nutrition in college, and am confident that I can create a menu that serves him well. However, I also understand how and why the AAFCO standards exist and I like the concept of him having access to additional supplements should he need them without me risking over-dosing him by providing a daily vitamin along with a diet that is well-balanced.

Thanks in advance for any input!

(X-posted in the supplements forum)

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[AdinaFay]

Hey all,
Has anyone ever tried or looked into free-feeding supplements to their pooch that’s on a homemade or raw diet? I’m interested in if this has been done before or if there is a specific reason that it is /not/ done. It’s (at least as far as I am aware) standard practice for livestock and horses, and most dogs/cats will already self-regulate to a certain extent with behaviors such as grass-eating.

Background:
After struggling for two years with my 8lb mix’s allergies I’m committing to an elimination diet and, since that will be a long process of me making his meals, am also looking into proper balancing of homemade and raw meals. I don’t want to go a pre-made/balanced route because, at least for the first few months, they would defeat the point of the diet. I understand the concepts of balancing the diet as a whole, took animal nutrition in college, and am confident that I can create a menu that serves him well. However, I also understand how and why the AAFCO standards exist and I like the concept of him having access to additional supplements should he need them without me risking over-dosing him by providing a daily vitamin along with a diet that is well-balanced.

Thanks in advance for any input!

[Patricia A]

Anon Thixton is NOT giving her opinion and she is NOT formulating dog food. You wrote “Ms. Thixton is a vehement activist at war with the pet food industry, government regulators, “. And she has no reason for this since we can trust them all 100% for our pets safety?????
The FACTS she listed on in the new FDA report which shows graphs high to low brands/manufacturers. most associated with DCM in their study .Then the graphs with the protein in the kibble with the most cases. All along there was the thought that there wasn’t enough knowledge in regard to the proper formulation of food with “exotic” proteins. The chart FDA showed the protein being fed with MOST cases of DCM was chicken with the more exotic ones being less implemented in DCM cases.
Please read the questions she has regarding the the new FDA study. They are right on relevant questions even though you don’t agree with her type of advocacy for the health of our pets.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

FDA Update on Grain-free Diets and Heart Disease in Dogs

excerpt from comments below
**** ****** says:
June 30, 2019 at 6:48 pm
I read the FDA reports and my impression is the FDA should have kept the names of the kibble manufacturers confidential because of likely referral bias. I’d like to hear their rationale for this.
Note that almost all the kibbles listed are high quality/high cost kibbles. I would have expected to see some of the mass market brands one can find in WalMart, Petco or your local grocery store. 3 days ago I took my Newf for a routine check for her SubAortic Stenosis at a multi-specialty clinic. The cost was $291.75. The FDA link isn’t totally clear, but it appears that most of the cases being studied are those for which the dogs have been evaluated with a cardiac echo study. I think it is likely that the same socioeconomic group that can afford cardiac echo studies correlates highly with the socioeconomic group that purchases costly boutique kibble.

skeptvet says:
July 1, 2019 at 9:53 am
Good points. Lots of possible confounders here. I think another one is that many of the brands on the list have made a reputation/market niche out of being “natural” or alternative to traditional diets in some way, and the grain-free claim tends to appeal to the same market segment–namely, mostly affluent owners who are drawn to alternative or unconventional practices and who find words like “natural” and “holistic” appealing.
However, it is important not to lose sight of the fact that strongest common thread here is not brand or market segment but grain-free and legumes/pulses. Lots of other foods by the same manufacturers are not on the list and do not have this ingredient profile. It is also interesting to see “kangaroo” as a common ingredient in foods on the list given how rare it is in dog food generally (especially compared to beef and pork, which occur less often in the suspect foods), so the exotic protein source angle is still worth investigating

[anonymous]

FDA Update on Grain-free Diets and Heart Disease in Dogs

excerpts (out of context) below, click on link for full article and comments

The specific relationship between diet and DCM in these cases is not yet understood, so it is impossible to say if the food is a primary cause of DCM and, if so, how this is happening. However, the common thread among the diets involved seems to be the use of legumes or pulses (e.g. peas, lentils) in place of grains in the diet.

While many of the diets contain common protein sources (e.g. chicken and lamb), a surprisingly high proportion have unusual and uncommon meats as their main protein source. Again, the significance of this is not yet clear.

There is a concentration of cases among golden retrievers, though dogs of many other breeds have been affected as well.

Further data collection and research will be necessary to determine the precise relationship between diet and DCM in these cases. There are likely multiple factors involved, including the ingredients in the diet, the genetics or particular breeds and individuals, and others we may not yet know about. Pet owners feeding these diets don’t need to panic, since far more dogs on these diets do NOT have DCM than do. However, if you are feeding one of these foods, or a diet similar in composition, and especially if you are feeding this to a golden retriever, it would be a good idea to talk to your vet about screening your pet for DCM and considering a change in diet.

[anonymous]

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/questions-answers-fda-center-veterinary-medicines-investigation-possible-connection-between-diet-and
excerpt below

To put this issue into proper context, the American Veterinary Medical Association estimates that there are 77 million pet dogs in the United States. As of April 30, 2019, the FDA has received reports about 560 dogs diagnosed with DCM suspected to be linked to diet. Tens of millions of dogs have been eating dog food without developing DCM. If you are concerned about the diet you are currently feeding your dog, FDA recommends working with your veterinarian, who may consult a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, to determine the best diet for your dog’s need.

FDA Update on Grain-free Diets and Heart Disease in Dogs

excerpts (out of context) below, click on link for full article and comments

The specific relationship between diet and DCM in these cases is not yet understood, so it is impossible to say if the food is a primary cause of DCM and, if so, how this is happening. However, the common thread among the diets involved seems to be the use of legumes or pulses (e.g. peas, lentils) in place of grains in the diet.

While many of the diets contain common protein sources (e.g. chicken and lamb), a surprisingly high proportion have unusual and uncommon meats as their main protein source. Again, the significance of this is not yet clear.

There is a concentration of cases among golden retrievers, though dogs of many other breeds have been affected as well.

Further data collection and research will be necessary to determine the precise relationship between diet and DCM in these cases. There are likely multiple factors involved, including the ingredients in the diet, the genetics or particular breeds and individuals, and others we may not yet know about. Pet owners feeding these diets don’t need to panic, since far more dogs on these diets do NOT have DCM than do. However, if you are feeding one of these foods, or a diet similar in composition, and especially if you are feeding this to a golden retriever, it would be a good idea to talk to your vet about screening your pet for DCM and considering a change in diet.

[haleycookie]

@joanne l orijen is a meat based food. Far more meat than anything Hill’s, purina, or rc will ever offer. They are some of the lowest carb dog foods around. So not sure where you all are getting your into it’s mostly peas. Acana is more but still under 40% of the food is vegetables and fruit.
They’ve been doing feed trials the past year on labs and beagles and have found no instances of heart problems so far. Not to mention most of those on this forum were incorrect on them not working with vets to formulate their foods. They seem to actually fit most of wsava guidelines, which I find comical.
If anyone would actually read the FDA’s article they’ll notice how they recommend to not change foods yet as this is still not a common issue at all. Not only that, the testing they’ve done on the foods have shown nothing conclusive and all foods are showing up balanced and appropriate. I suppose after they start testing the dogs and how the different breeds synthesize taurine in foods with peas we’ll know more, but is suspect it will be a genetic breed issue more than anything else. But til then it’s not a wide spread issue that I’m concerned about. Nor should anyone else be, this mass hysteria going on in this forum is almost comical. To think feeding a carnivore a mostly carb diet is healthy. hahahah. Whatever floats ur boat. I’m done arguing about it. I’ll just be reminding folk whom are concerned that it is a very small unproven issue at this moment and to not feed into the hysteria some of you push so hard.

[aimee]

haleycookie,

I read through Champion’s response and in my opinion it is very reminiscent of and just as unbiased as the response of the tobacco industry when the first link was made between smoking and cancer. : )

In my opinion, very cleverly written to model after the response of the tobacco industry, “our science found no concerns” but as I read it I find that what they are reporting is very vague and appears to be poorly done.

For example what is “long-term feeding trials with enhanced DCM protocols” In regards to length was it 2 days, 2 weeks, a month, 2 months?? Considering it isn’t yet know how long is may take for dietary DCM to become apparent how are they confident that their trial would have been long enough to find any abnormalities.

What are “enhanced DCM protocols”. The only takeaway I got from their response is that perhaps they measured taurine. Considering most cases have normal taurine levels it seems silly to me to sound an “all clear” based on that test.

Champion likes to point out that dietary DCM appears to be uncommon. The true incidence isn’t known. But I think it is fair to say that not every dog/cat consuming a problematic diet becomes ill. In the Melamine crisis huge numbers of dogs and cats that were exposed didn’t become ill. Same with the association between renal disease and chicken jerky or between grapes/raisins and renal disease. So for illustration sake let’s say that for problem “X ” 1 in a thousand becomes ill. Is testing several dogs relevant? I would say it is not. And Champion hasn’t said what number of dogs participated in their trials. Hmmm

Let’s look at this statement…
“In the recipes Champion makes, we emphasize fresh and raw meat with total animal-derived ingredients ranging from 60 to 85 percent of the finished product. Legumes are not a significant feature in Champion’s recipes, and never have been.”

Take the finished product Acana Free Run Poultry chosen at random GA is 29% protein 17% fat and 12 % moisture and I’ll toss in 3 % ash. 100-29-17-12-3= 39% min plant based nutrient.

Looking at the ingredient list and removing the animal based ingredients , and discarding the ingredients after salt leaves us with whole green peas, whole red lentils, whole pinto beans, , chickpeas, whole green lentils, whole yellow peas, lentil fiber,

Those ingredients, except for the fiber, are in addition to being sources of carbohydrate are also sources of protein From USDA nutrient database an average of 1 part protein for every 3 parts carb. So of that 29 % protein 10 grams may be from the legumes.

Total plant content 39 % + 10% and you get 49% plant based ingredients which I consider a “significant feature”
Total animal based 19% + 17% fat for a total of 36%

In that example I made assumptions as I am using the GA which is just min values therefore the results are not completely accurate but it is very different from the claim of 60-85% animal derived content in the finished product.
Personally, the only thing I can figure that may be 85% animal content finished product would be some of the treats.

Several years ago I asked Champion if they did AAFCO feeding trials. They answered affirmatively. On further inquiry as I recall I asked how long they were for and they replied a few weeks. Hmm more questions and they report they test for palatability, digestibility and stool quality. Most would assume by an AAFCO feeding trial they were talking about a trial for nutritional adequacy but that is not the response I got.

I see this response from Champion as nothing more than a marketing piece . I urge caution whenever looking at any statements made by any food manufacturer in regards to their product.

Perhaps if Champion really wanted to contribute to the knowledge base they should hire veterinary cardiologists and hold free echo screening for DCM for dogs who have eaten their food as their primary source of nutrition. With all the frequent buyer programs it shouldn’t be too hard for retailers to track Champion’s customers.

[Caroline B]

For those of you having the sawdust on water problem, it happens with too much water. To explain, occasionally in shipping, as an ex over-the-road trucker of the 48 states and after hauling refrigerated loads (some just for optimal temperature) I’ve seen what happens to some bagged products. In different states there’s super high humidity, and shipping isn’t perfect, with loading docks, warehouses, and the final delivery truck that’s probably not air conditioned. In the 2 to 7 days it ships to you, it may have encountered a bit of condensation in the bag! It’s still sealed and I’ve had no bad side effects to my little dog. She was dying from a major brand that showed up one day like poison. Avoderm. 10 or 15 years ago it saved my husky shepherd chows. But they sold out. Previous bags were just ok, and this one nearly killed my little dog. Marty’s saved her. She would drink it if it were floating! Your dog is the best judge, so watch for the happy dog response. I got it and am thrilled. But, if your kibble shows up and is cool to the touch, it may have absorbed a bit of water in transit! The bag I have like this, I just put barely enough water over to soak it. And it doesn’t fluff up no matter how long I wait because it already did. I think the 4 cups in a dry bag is closer than the 7 cups hydrated they’ve talked about, but since she’s only 12 lbs I just give her a small handful a day. I supplement with a grocery store kibble and cans for now because I’m broke, but the $30 bag will last her a long time. I can’t afford to give it to the big dog, but I’ll treat him with a couple kernels now and then. Even the cat attacks me for it! I’ve smashed one kibble for him in a few drops of water a couple times. There’s cheaper but I haven’t switched, and there’s way better kibble but there’s so many recalls. Avoderm isn’t the first sell out. Seems like the expensive good brands take turns building a customer base and then selling out. It’s scary to use them now, in this economy they’re all trying to make money, and I can never guess who’s next! But I’ll try another month. For now my little dog is on the mend using very little! (But the recommended amount leaves her hungry and begging like crazy, my dogs are used to feeders!)

[Owen J]

The needs of puppies for their full development have been studied in detail by scientists, so special puppy food has a qualitative composition with a fixed amount of useful substances.

The presence of vitamins and minerals in the diet of a puppy is required. This is a fundamental growth factor for a healthy animal. Lack of essential vitamins leads to problems with the development of the dog, so it is better not to take risks and give the animal ready rations that contain all the elements it needs.

Ready-made puppy food is produced by such manufacturers as Pedigree, Royal Canin, Pro Plan, Acana.

https://herepup.com/abady-dog-food-reviews/

[Owen J]

Ready-made feeds are very convenient: they do not spoil for a long time, and a wide choice of tastes and textures allows you to significantly diversify the nutrition of your four-legged friend. In addition, you can clearly dose the amount of food at one time, which in future will help the dog to avoid problems with obesity.
https://herepup.com/what-is-the-best-canned-dog-food/

[Patricia A]

Peace to you also. Just wanted to add that have had dogs in my home for over 25 years and always took my vets advice regarding their health. However, there have been times they were just outright wrong and caused more harm then good. My first dog was a Doxie. A tough little dog and just wonderful with my two young children at the time. This was over 25 years ago and when my vet said he is due for his shots after a well check up I started questioning if he had my dogs best interest. He was 16 at the time and starting to loose bladder control as well as his appetite. Our visit was REALLY to ask if he feels it might be time and if he was suffering . I am glad I went against his push for the shots. He always had bad reactions to them. The lepto was the culprit that made his face swell so that was discontinued the last year. When I showed concerned that he can no longer receive the lepto my vet said don’t worry since it would be rare for him to actually contact the lepto virus. Anyway we had Pookie for three more months before we decided it was time.Looking at some old VHS videos the other day and so glad we had so many with Pookie always in the middle of everything. Then came my Chloe a rescue Chihuahua. Took her in for a cough and exercise intolerance that came on quickly. This was about 12 years ago. Vet gave X-ray and said pneumonia. Gave us antibiotics and said take her into the steamy shower and tap on her chest to move fluid. He said not to worry. Well by early morning we were rushing her into office and they said hurry to the big hospital emergency 20 minutes away. She was turning blue on her gums and gasping. She died on my lap on the way there. I got a ton of apologies from the “head” vet who owns the business and also from my vet who said “don’t worry just give the antibiotics”. She was 13 and I trusted him that even though my intuition said she looked really sick and she’s 13 withpneumonia and maybe we should take her for another opinion we didn’t. We just put our trust that she’ll be getting better by morning with the two antibiotics already in her. I think they thought we would sue because I got calls all week with the “so very sorry”. Very hard to even think or talk about it without crying again after all these years. Next comes my Hannah. She needed surgery for luxatting Patella. Very common in small breeds with their knees not staying in place . Vet gives all the blood tests before surgery AND her shots. I asked vet if they could be given seperately because the last year she was not right for two weeks after all the shots. He said no they are all in one. So three weeks later take her to the big animal hospital for her surgery and they give another blood test before surgery. Surgeon calls that surgery could not be done because she had hardly any white cell count. Mind you she had a clean bill of health at her checkup and blood work three weeks before. So now she needs a bone marrow test. Results are immune mediated hypo lymphocyte or something like that caused from vaccination. Thank goodness months later her white count went up and got her surgery. She was 8 at the time and I stopped all vaccinations for her. She is the one now that is 17 . At that time I had her and a one other little rescue Loli. I took her in for spaying. She had all her shots and would get the boosters at a year. So vet said she has to have the kennel nasal vaccine before she goes for the spaying . Well within three days this healthy little puppy was coughing, sneezing and had mucous pouring out of her nose . So the vet actually GAVE her a cold to prevent others from catching a cold while she is there. If I would have brought her in for the surgery with that cold she would have infected all the dogs there . Also why give a bad cold to a dog getting surgery. Not only that he knew that I had an immune compromised dog to boot that could catch the cold.
Onward to the present. Hannah was diagnosed with very likely mitral valve disease by stethoscope , breed and of course her age. She developed a cough a few months ago. But to give her the prescription she needed the ultrasound. Vet said ultrasound guy comes in twice a week and I would have to bring her in at 7 in morning and leave her in cage. The cardio/ultrousound Dr. might not be in till late afternoon. So I asked if I could have an estimate so I could bring her in and sit with her in office. I was willing to wait a few hours. I explained to vet she is almost 17 and her heart is very bad. I do NOT want a phone call that she passed in that cage from the stresss without me. Vet said there is no way to know when he will come and if she’s not there he will not wait. I live like five minutes away. All they had to do was call me when he comes in and do the other dogs waiting and I would be there way before he’s ready for her. Well he did not agree to that. So there is NO exception for a very elderly dog who doesn’t have long and give her more stress and fear by waiting all day in a cage. I would have been a wreck waiting for that phone call that she passed and how would I live with that ? After many pleading phone calls the head vet agreed to call me when he’s on the way. They did her last I waited over two hours.. I guess that was my punishment for being a pain but so relieved I didn’t have to leave her waiting in the cage.
Sorry so long but feels good getting all this out. Maybe you can now understand being a little questioning when it comes to SOME practices of SOME vets with my pets.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Anon have you ever read articles from the Whole Dog Journal? I don’t believe you have because the site contains a lot of useful up to date articles of all kinds for us pet owners. , if you’re thinking for example they are against vaccinations for example and advocate “”GO HOLISTIC” and no shots you are wrong. I’m just giving an example of what some people think holistic means. It’s also making me annoyed that now they are showing commercials for sedatives for your dogs if they are restless in the car.. Do you agree that now your dog should be drugged for car rides ? Is this science based or profit pharmaceuticall based. Now they’re making the public think we actually NEED to give this to our dogs? Or just maybe instead of giving your dog drugs a more”holistic” approach would be in the best interest of your pet. Maybe this can be an option: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/training/dogs-riding-safely-and-calmly-in-cars/
This is one of hundreds of informative articles also . See below’s articles in Whole Dog Journal is doesn’t sound like voodoo science to me.

Physical Exams for Senior Dogs
Senior Dog April 17, 2018 0
There are a number of ways that we can stay on top of health issues that creep up on our dogs with age. Annual veterinary visits are a staple in every healthy pet’s life. A comprehensive physical exam from nose to tail is step one in picking up clues to underlying concerns at every age, but it becomes even more important in the senior years.
Below is article I was originally referring to with the AAFCO
:https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/19_10/editorial/Ask-for-AAFCO_21528-1.html

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

This was an eye opener of the standards to meet AAFCO requirements.
No Proof!

Until recently, I was under a false impression – and no pet food company representative hastened to correct it! I thought if a food had a “nutrient values” claim on its label, its maker would have to submit proof that the food inside the can or bag actually contains nutrients in the required amounts. I guess I assumed the products would be tested by third party laboratories and the results would be filed with state feed control officials.

I was wrong.

The actual requirement is this: A company representative must sign and have notarized an affidavit that states, “This product meets the nutrient levels established in the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for (growth/reproduction, maintenance, or all life stages).” And then they have to keep a copy of that affidavit.

That’s it. Seriously.

No lab test results or analysis of the nutrients confirming that the statement is true are required.

And the affidavit doesn’t even get filed with the state! It just has to be kept “on file” in the company’s own files!

No kidding: The company has to, in effect, pinky swear that their products meet the required nutrient levels. And consumers have to just trust that the products do.

Editorial: I don’t think that’s right. I don’t think that’s sufficient.

Why This Matters

This matters because most dogs get most (if not all) of their nutrients from commercial food. They are a captive audience, literally. They are not free to select their own foods, they can’t follow their instincts to drive them to ingredients that contain any nutrients they may be lacking. What’s more, many owners are warned by their veterinarians and other pet professionals against feeding any table scraps or “human food” to dogs. And pet food companies encourage owners to feed their products and only their products, and to use extreme caution when switching products, lest the dog explode (or something) from diarrhea (or something).

Put another way: If most dogs eat a single type of food and nothing but that food, shouldn’t their owners be able to verify that the food truly contains every nutrient their dogs need?

Raising the Bar

I’ve long believed that, for the reasons above, consumers ought to be able to ask for and readily receive a complete nutrient analysis of their dogs’ food – to make sure that the diet contains adequate (and not excessive) amounts of the nutrients that experts agree dogs need – and that was before I knew that it was possible that products that are labelled as “complete and balanced” might not be.

Last year, we surveyed the dog food companies whose products met our selection criteria and asked this question: “Do you make a complete nutrient analysis for each of your products available to consumers? If so, are the analyses available only upon request, or is this information on your website?” As it turned out, very few of the companies had nutrient analyses readily available, and some of the ones that said they had them available were not able (or perhaps not willing) to produce them.

So, this year, we sent the pet food companies whose products have been on our “approved canned dog food” list an email that said, “There will be one significant change in how we will select and present the ‘approved’ foods on our list. This year, we are asking each company to provide us with a fairly recent (within the past year) ‘typical analysis’ for each of the canned dogs foods that they offer, and we will be comparing the values with the AAFCO nutrient profiles for dogs. If we do not receive the analyses, the foods will not appear on our ‘approved foods’ list this year.”

The Results

A few companies promptly sent us what we asked for, and these companies now constitute our gold-star picks – our top-rated producers of canned foods. See the “2016 Canned Dog Food Review” for a list of these companies.

In contrast, there were other companies we didn’t hear back from. We are more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt; maybe they didn’t receive our email? Maybe our phone message got lost? If they respond in the next few months, we will update their information here.

We heard from a few companies that said they would be happy to get this information to us, but they needed more time. So, for them, too, we’re going to reserve space in the next few issues to update their information.

Quite a few companies sent us something that’s close to what we asked for; quite a few sent us nutrient analyses of their products that were generated by computer software. Different companies use different programs to generate these analyses, but they all work in a similar fashion: The programs are loaded with nutrient values for every dog food ingredient you can dream of, and then a formula for a given dog food is entered – so many pounds of this, so many ounces of that, etc. – and the software calculates the amount of nutrients that will be in the resulting food.

Literally every company has these software-driven analyses – projections, really – of their formulas, because that’s how pet food is formulated today. The concern is, how do these projections pan out when compared to actual laboratory analysis of the nutrients?

We put this question to a number of pet food experts – including formulators and pet food company owners – and the answer was, it depends on a lot of things, including:

How closely the food manufacturer hews to the recipe for the food;
What software is used to analyze the recipe;
Whether or not the software takes into account chemical reactions between ingredients that take place when the food is mixed or cooked – reactions that might cause certain nutrient values to test at different levels than the software would predict; and
Whether the pet food company routinely tests their raw ingredients in a laboratory and enters updated nutrient values for those ingredients into the software.
All of these are reasons why computer-generated analyses might return very different values than a laboratory test of the actual dog food.

So, even though these computer-generated analyses are not exactly what we asked for, we’re going to give the companies that sent them to us the benefit of the doubt, too. For now, they still appear on the list of our “approved canned dog foods” that starting on page 8. If they, too, send us actual laboratory test results for their products, we’ll upgrade their status to our gold-star list in upcoming issues.

But we’re also giving all the companies a heads-up: Only the pet food makers that provide lab analyses of their products will appear on our list of “approved dry dog foods” in the February issue.

[Christie B]

I already discussed grass eating with my vet. Some dogs just like to eat grass he said, his dogs included. However, he cautioned that if you have a dog that normally does not eat grass, then eating grass is a sign that the dog has a stomach issue and is trying to induce vomiting.

My mother’s dog never ate grass. But all of a sudden she’s eating grass, vomiting, eating more grass, vomiting, licking floors/carpet…

She needed surgery because she had an intestinal blockage. Turns out she was sneaking in the back room and started to literally eat the fibers of a throw rug. The vet saved the contents of her stomach. It was unreal how much stuff was in there. It literally looked like she had swallowed a mop head.

But my dogs have always eaten grass. Actually, my 1 dog always ate grass from the time I adopted him. When I adopted my other dog 6 years later, she never ate grass (she was 14 weeks old when I adopted her). She would follow my older guy around and do what he did. She started to copy his grass eating habits. Now they go out together…it’s amusing to watch.

And yes, they’ve also eaten it with an upset stomach to induce vomiting or I’ll notice it in their poop.

But sometimes they’re just hanging out in the backyard running around and playing and wind up wandering over to some taller blades that the lawnmower missed and lazily chew away.

My vet said it’s fine as long as their blood results are good and they appear to be eating fine. And when my big guy has an upset stomach episode I can tell by his body language that it’s going to be a bad night for him

[malinda r]

I have a dog that has had frequent issues with recurring diarrhea, vomiting, mucus stools, etc. I would just say after that long bout of diarrhea a lot of foods will be irritating right now, even the foods that normally she might do really well on. I can’t tell exactly from your post if you did the ground meat or how long, but it is good to do the ground meat diet 2-3 days and then slowly introduce some other foods.
After feeding my dog ground turkey a couple of days his diarrhea disappears and his bowels are much smaller and less frequent. When I then start to add other foods, it is easy to see if they are agreeable or not if he has reaction, like loose bowel or rumbling/gurgling stomach.

I have had great results for my sensitive dog with Stella&Chewys, health extension cans of wet, Carna4 dry. I also order cooked food from Evermore. If you have to feed a dry due to work/schedule, check out Carna4, it is pretty incredible. I first start feeding it a few months ago, changing nothing else in my dogs diet. As he has transitioned to it fully, his BM is so much smaller and compact, which from what I read is considered healthy.

Try to be as preventative as possible. If I notice a loose bowel or lots of trips outside I immediately start feeding ground meat, before the dog gets to a stage of vomiting with the diarrhea. It seems like at a certain point a vet trip is unavoidable, so I try to not let him get to that stage. My dog had several vet trips with antibiotics the first year to second year I had him, and the antibiotics are not helpful long term. Since I have starting watching more closely and acting quickly he has done so well. I think he has vomited1-2 times in the past 3 years, which is amazing considering how frequent it was the first year I had him.

My dog also has a reaction to his heartworm med, which is monthly for him, something for you to think about. You might record when he gets different meds for what and see if there is any physical effects for the couple of days following.

[joanne l]

I read on the dog journal that probiotics and enzymes are really helpful with this. There is one called Forta Flora it is in individual packets and you put it on the dogs food. Also rule out allergies to food as well. I use that product as well. Always tell the vet what you are using or doing. So ask him or her about Forta Flora. In my opinion it may help a lot.
I forgot to mention you can read the reviews on Forta Flora on chewy.com and that is were you can order it if you want.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[Stefanie F]

Dr Martys NATURE’S BLEND

Any one know of it and have any good or bad thoughts about it?

I have a small dog a bichon weight of around 14/15 pound he is about 8 now.

I have been feeding for morning a tablespoon of fruit yogurt with probiotic powder mixed in. (He was getting 1/2 cup of cheerios but am no longer doing that due to the pesticides in them)

Then at night 1/2 cup of mixed ORIJEN Dry Dog Food, Six Fish, and Acana Meadowlands Dry Dog .

He also gets a lot of table veggies and fruits. He eats what ever I am having for fruit and veggies. So if I have bruss sprouts he gets them that night, If I have salad he will get tomato and cucumber. If I am eating an apple he will have some a well.

He is a good begger.

I have seen the lawsuit info on champion pet foods. I have read about the grain free is bad now. I also know neither ORIJEN or Acana have ever had a recall and it seems like every other brand has. (He eats this out of a a tug-a-jug to slow him down and keep him busy for a half hour)

I am at a total loss of if I am doing good or bad by my dog.

I can not go raw, and I do not have the time to cook for him daily. So I have to have either a freeze dried, kibble, or can I can take with me.

I care for 3 elderly people all in different places and the dog comes with me so I have to have something I can easily toss in a bag and go as I never know where I am going to be.

I did post something a few weeks back and got jumped on about giving him his tablespoon of fruit yogurt because of sugar. I always read fruit was good for dogs and he will not eat plain yogurt. So it seems even when I think I am doing good by him I am not.

So I really need some advice.

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[joanne l]

I don’t know if this will help you, but I will share it anyway. My friend had a dog with this condition. His vet did the same as your vet is doing. However, the owner found out it was a chicken allergy. He bought Natures Instinct limited ingredient diet of lamb and he never had a problem again. Now I don’t know if it will help your dog, but you can this food a try. It has an ingredient in there call Montrolle clay, sorry I can’t spell it but anyway they say it can help with IBD. Check chewy out and read the reviews. Other than that try cooking for the dog. Either boil ground meat and rice or chicken and rice. If the Rx diet is not working than do this. See if the cooked diet for a few days will work. If it does great, than you can add a very little of the dog food I mentioned and see what happens. I know some on here may say to go to a specialist. If you can afford it go but ask about food intolerance and allergies. What dog food was your dog on begore?? Look at the ingredients in it and let me know. I hope you can get this under control. Also by cooking you will know if she may have a allergy. If chicken and rice don’t work than try beef and rice. And please drain all the fat when boiling ground beef. Oh and only use white rice, do not use brown rice! White rice will be best for this condition. P.S. you said “RX diet may have made it worse”? There maybe something in the Purina that is not tolerated. I have a feeling your dog may do well on the cooking method I mentioned to get him back on track.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by joanne l.

[Patricia A]

anon what exactly is incorrect in the article regarding transmission?
HOLISTIC LOOK AT HEARTWORM PREVENTION

A few days ago, one of my friends living in Vermont called me. She was wondering what I thought about heartworm prevention. She asked me to help her determine if the monthly administration of heartworm preventive medication is really necessary. The question threw me back to the 90s when heartworm prevention drug manufacturers decided to take North America by storm. I remember the drug reps visiting vet clinics on a regular basis telling us that it was only a matter of time and heartworm would be widespread in Canada. These visits were also accompanied by a subtle suggestion that selling heartworm tests and preventive drugs could be a significant source of income for the practice.
As time progressed, the heartworm doom and gloom scenario didn’t happen and the risk of heartworm infection in my area was clearly exaggerated.

On the basis of my findings, I made the decision not to recommend heartworm preventive drugs in the area of my practice because the risk was practically zero and administering any drugs is never optimal. In reality, no one can be absolutely certain if preventive medication doesn’t increase the tendency to chronic disease, organ failure or even cancer down the road.

On the other hand, my friend’s situation is quite different because she lives in the eastern U.S., where heartworm is a real possibility. I saw her question as a great opportunity for me to review the lifecycle of heartworm once again to see if drug companies were honest about their recommendations for monthly prevention. To me, the monthly administration seemed to be kind of peculiar because, as far as I know, parasites do not carry an iPhone with a calendar and schedule.

I decided to bring clarity to the current situation to see what frequency is needed for heartworm preventive drugs and also tell you more about the heartworm prevention alternatives that I use with my dog Skai. In order to do so, I need to give you answers to the following questions:

What is the risk of heartworm disease in your area?

What is the minimal frequency of administering preventive drugs?

Are there any alternatives?

1. HEARTWORM INCIDENCE

The life cycle of heartworm is dependent on a temperature that remains above 57F (14C) for at least 45 days straight and at least two weeks of temperatures over 80F (26C). If these conditions are not fulfilled, the parasite cycle cannot be completed and your dog is safe.

Based on the recommendations of Dr. David Knight and Dr. James Lok from the American Heartworm society, even with the most cautious conventional medical protocols, a year-round heartworm preventive schedule is exaggerated with the exception of Florida, some parts of Texas and Hawaii. According to their conventional opinion, preventive treatment is unnecessary in the winter months and definitely doesn’t need to be started before or after the months noted on the map in their paper.

2. HEARTWORM LIFE CYCLE

Before you succumb to the marketing pressure and fear and administer heartworm medicine monthly, I urge you to learn more about the heartworm life cycle. Heartworm development goes through several stages before reaching maturity and it takes two-and-a-half to four months before the tiny stage of microfilaria leaves the muscles and starts settling in the pulmonary artery. When heartworm reaches its final destination in the pulmonary artery near the heart, it takes about three to four months to reach maturity.

One doesn’t need to have a degree in math to figure that it takes somewhere between five-and-a-half to eight months for microfilaria to mature into an adult worm and that your dog should be safe if you administer heartworm meds only once every three to four months if you live in an area where heartworm occurs.

So why would the drug companies recommend monthly heartworm prevention? The reason is clearly identified in Drs. Knight and Lok’s study:

“…given what is presently known, continued adherence to a policy of superfluous chemoprophylaxis is disquieting because financial expediency for the veterinarian conflicts with clinical objectivity and client consent is predicated on unrealistic expectations. Clients mistakenly believe that they are purchasing additional protection for their pets, but in reality they are not. If the truth was known to them, few clients would agree to unnecessarily double their expense for heartworm prevention.”

In real language, most vets are too busy to question the recommendations that drug companies give them about heartworm prevention. I strongly believe that the main reason for over recommending heartworm prevention (chemoprophylaxis) dose frequency is that drug companies can double or triple their revenues.

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3. SAFE ALTERNATIVE TO HEARTWORM PREVENTIVE DRUGS

My dog Skai and I travel to Hawaii approximately twice a year for two months and I had to face the dilemma of what to do about heartworm. I never felt totally comfortable about giving him any drugs because, in my mind, there is no such thing as a little bit of poison.

Luckily, advances in heartworm testing brought about DNA testing on the basis of PCR technology, which allows me to test three times a year for any presence of heartworm. This test has virtually no false negatives, which is great news for your dog.

I can see that these tests are a serious threat to the hefty profits of heartworm meds manufacturers because they are simply not needed if you follow this formula. The duration of the heartworm season can be found on the map on page 79 of the study.

Season Duration Number of Tests Required
(The last should be done at the end of the heartworm season)
Less than four months 1 test
Four – eight months 2 tests
Eight – 12 months 3 tests
Considering the facts above, in order to prevent heartworm and keep your dog safe, all you need to do is test your dog if you live in an affected area. If the results are positive (heartworm DNA is present) make sure that you consult your veterinarian before administering any heartworm meds. Heartworm preventive medication can be used only if adult heartworms are NOT present because using preventive drugs on adult heartworm can cause serious problems and a different treatment protocol must be used.

CONCLUSION

I regret to say that similar to the vaccination scam, monthly heartworm prevention is yet another dishonest marketing plot. What I am confused about is why drug companies continuously try to trick us and frighten us, instead of making a living the honest way. No matter what they are planning to try next, I believe that eventually, they will have to become more honest in order to survive because it is much more difficult to hide the truth in the age of worldwide web.

Wishing you a happy, more informed heartworm season.

© Dr. Peter Dobias, DVM

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[anonymous]

https://www.petmd.com/dog/parasites/evr_dg_how_dog_heartworm_treatment_preventive_medications_work

excerpts below (out of context)

The heartworm life cycle is complex. The dog is infected by early stage larvae that are transmitted by a mosquito carrying infected blood. This larvae goes through multiple stages of development within body tissue before migrating to the heart and lungs as an adult heartworm.

These adults produce microfilariae, the earliest life stage that circulates within the dog’s blood. Prevention kills only early stage larvae and microfilariae. This is why it is important to give your dog heartworm prevention every month. It kills the larvae before they develop into a stage that is immune to the medication in heartworm prevention.

Most heartworm medications require monthly administration, while others work longer (up to six months with an injectible product called moxidectin or Proheart®). There are many choices of heartworm prevention available, from topical products to chewable oral medications; many come in both dog and cat versions.

Monthly heartworm preventative medications do not stay in your dog’s bloodstream for 30 days. The active ingredients work to kill any larvae that have been in the system for the past 30 days, clearing the body each month. The medication is only needed once a month because it takes longer than a month for the larvae to develop to a stage where they reach the body tissues.

Heartworm medications available today work to kill off the larval heartworms that made it into the dog’s body during the past month. The heartworms in dogs will die at certain stages of development, before they can become adult heartworms. However, heartworm preventives will not kill adult heartworms that are already present.

[Patricia A]

canineCanine heartworm disease is transmitted by infected mosquitoes.

In the worst case scenario, it results in a fatal worm infestation in the heart and blood vessels of an infected dog.

Fortunately, heartworm disease can be prevented. It can also be successfully treated when caught in time.

The American Heartworm Society (AHS), an organization that studies the disease, its treatment and prevention, recommends yearly heartworm testing for all dogs. The AHS also recommends year-round chemical preventives for every dog over the age of eight weeks, regardless of where the dog lives.

Dr. Becker’s Comments:
The American Heartworm Society has three “platinum” sponsors and five “bronze” sponsors. All eight are major pharmaceutical manufacturers.

It comes as no surprise, then, that the AHS recommends year-round, birth-to-death heartworm prevention drugs – no matter where you live, the time of year, the age of your dog, his size or health status.

What’s Wrong with This Picture?
Three things, specifically:

Huge conflict of interest potential. Heartworm prevention through the overuse of potentially toxic medications sold by pharmaceutical giants like Bayer Healthcare, Merial and Pfizer, is a virtual money machine for drug manufacturers, online retailers, testing laboratories, veterinarians and any other entity that can find a way to cash in.

When there’s money on the table – in this case billions of dollars – your pet’s health and quality of life can quickly become a secondary concern.

Note also that the ASH recommendation for year-round dosing is not because your pet needs it year-round in every state, but because it’s assumed dog owners will forget to re-start the medication when the weather warms up.

And by the way – heartworm “preventives” don’t actually prevent your pet from getting worms. What they do is poison the larvae at the microfilaria (L1-L2) stage of development, causing them to die.

Relatively low actual incidence of life-threatening infection. Heartworm disease is more difficult to acquire – and less lethal – than the dire warnings and marketing claims for chemical preventives would have you believe.

In order for heartworm disease to take hold, a precise sequence of events must occur involving the right climate, the right temperature for the right amount of time, the right species and sex of mosquito, and your dog’s less-than-optimal immune system function.

This information is not intended to minimize the need to protect your dog, but only to point out the actual potential for heartworm disease is less than you’ve been led to believe by financially-motivated marketing campaigns designed to scare pet owners into buying 12 doses of preventive, year in and year out, regardless of where you live!

The existence of less toxic recommendations. There are less harmful protocols to prevent heartworm in your dog than a lifetime of once-monthly, year-round doses of toxic drugs.
How Heartworm Disease Happens
Heartworms are a variety of roundworm with the clinical name dirofilaria immitis. They are spread by mosquitoes.

Dogs can only get heartworm disease through infected mosquitoes. They can’t get it from other dogs or other types of animals, from dog feces, or from their mothers while in the womb or through nursing.

Only certain mosquitoes can transmit heartworm to your dog. These mosquitoes must meet certain precise criteria, including:

They must be female.
They must be of a species that allows development of the worms in the cells of the body (not all species do).
They must be of a species that feeds on mammals (not all do).
They must have bitten an animal infected with stage 1 (L1) heartworms about two weeks prior, since approximately 14 days are necessary for the larvae from the other animal to develop to stage 3 (L3) inside the transmitting mosquito.
This mosquito must then bite your dog. When the larvae reach stage L4-L5, which takes three to four months, under
the right conditions they can travel via your dog’s bloodstream to the lungs and heart.

If your dog’s immune system doesn’t destroy these invaders, they will reach maturity (L6), the adult stage, in which males can grow to six inches in length and females to 12.

Two other critically important features in the transmission of heartworm are:

The right temperature. During the time the heartworm larvae are developing from L1 to L3 inside an infected mosquito, which is approximately a two-week period, the temperature must not dip below 57°F at any point in time. If it does, the maturation cycle is halted. According to Washington State University heartworm report from 2006, full development of the larvae requires “the equivalent of a steady 24-hour daily temperature in excess of 64°F (18°C) for approximately one month.”
Humidity and standing water. Mosquitoes are a rarity in dry climates.
As you can see, in order for your dog to develop heartworm disease, a number of things have to happen with near-perfect timing under a precise set of circumstances.

Information on how many cases of canine heartworm disease occur each year in the U.S. is scarce. The AHS provides a heartworm incidence map for the years 2001, 2004 and 2007 which you might find helpful. Keep in mind it is a very general guideline and shouldn’t be viewed as the only decision-making tool at your disposal.

Assessing Your Dog’s Risk
There are only a few areas in the U.S. in which giving a nine month to year-round heartworm preventive might be advisable – those areas are in south Texas, south Florida, and a few other locations along the Gulf coast. The rest of the U.S. ranges from three to seven months of high exposure risk. The majority of states are at six months or less.

Given that heartworm preventives are insecticides designed to kill heartworm larvae inside your animal, and therefore have the potential for short and long-term side effects damaging to your pet’s health, the first bit of information you need is your dog’s actual risk of exposure to infected mosquitoes.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.

[Sanne]

Except she should not have because that would still be false. Maybe I am missing it somewhere, but I have yet to see any of those companies talk much about this DCM issue publicly. Can’t find much of anything on their own websites, social media, or commercials. If it were true that they are spreading it, I would expect to see them advertise all over the place that their food does not cause DCM. So far, the only people I am seeing bring up their food is concerned Cardiologists who have noticed patterns.

[Bobby dog]

No hysteria, just allot of misinformation being posted…breaking down the recommendations might help another reader.

I’ll give you some of your own advice, you can just ignore my posts if you are bothered by them. 😉

As I posted before just looking to provide the safest care for my pets…like walking my dog on a leash in the city.

I never wrote about what brand makes me happy, just discussing misinformation you posted about WSAVA recs… 😉

[Patricia A]

Ooops.I knew that. I really should read the WHOLE article carefully especially when I post it. lol I hope so too Crazy4cats. I hope that when and IF this resolves that us pet owners can count on every dog food to be balanced properly and finally give us pet owners a chance to feel secure in what we’re feeding. Of course what one dog will more then thrive on might not be the same for the next but at least they’ll be choices that are just based on a dogs preference and maybe only tummy troubles with some foods and NOT causing deaths. Also I hope the manufactures stop thinking we’re not noticing when they ingredient split and give cheap fillers instead of meat and call it high protein and then still charge a lot to make even more of a profit . Of course again they’ll always be recalls from salmonella, plastic pieces etc. But at least then with too many we always had the choice to switch brands leading the company to be more careful or loose their good name and customers. But the vitamin d and other deadly things has got to stop altogether also. One time that happens and companies should be held accountable by big fines maybe and maybe then we won’t be getting so many recalls all the time. Just venting here. Now I feel better.

[Lauren D]

I don’t know if this has been covered here or not, but I would like to point out the acknowledgments section in this DCM study: https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.253.11.1390

“Within the past 3 years, Dr. Freeman has received research support from Aratana Therapeutics, Nestlé Purina PetCare, and Royal Canin; has consulted with Aratana Therapeutics and Nestlé Purina PetCare; has given sponsored talks for Aratana Therapeutics, Hill’s Pet Nutrition, and Nestlé Purina PetCare; and has served on a scientific advisory board for Aratana Therapeutics. Within the past 3 years, Dr. Rush has received research support from Aratana Therapeutics, Nestlé Purina PetCare, and Royal Canin and has consulted with Aratana Therapeutics and Nestlé Purina PetCare. Within the past 3 years, Dr. Adin has received research support from Nestlé Purina PetCare. All other authors report no relationships relevant to the contents of this editorial to disclose.”

So when all of a sudden I see posts insisting that the only acceptable foods to feed these days are Hills Purina and Royal Canin, it raises some alarm bells here.

I’m currently feeding a grain-free food and have not switched, but I’m doing own reading and will come to a conclusion eventually. It is unlikely that I would ever switch to one of those brands anyways, so I’ll probably look at Fromm if I think my dogs would do better with added grain.

[Stefanie F]

I feed a grain free Orijen dry dog food for the past 8 years and give table food bites here and there. (My bichon will go nuts for a cherry tomato, cucumber, brussels sprouts, egg, or cooked spinach. )

For breakfast he has 1/4 of a chobani fruit yogurt with a canine pro biotic powder mixed in. (He will not eat the plain)

Everything was fine until last Thanksgiving when he got into the trash and ate his fill of Turkey skin. He develops pancreatitis and for weeks was on meds and boiled hamburger and white rice. Along with IV’s daily to keep him hydrated.
(No more Turkey on holidays at my house.)

After I got him well and back on his regular food (and that took well over a month transitioning back) he started to have 1 good normal poop in the morning and then a second gelatinous poop in the late afternoon. (he was always a 2 poop a day boy)

Told the vet she suggested adding some cheerios to his breakfast. I did and the problem was fixed.

Now my dilemma I just saw all the news and articles about the oat drying process and how they use RoundUp for it so most oat cereals and breakfast products have high amounts GLYPHOSATE in them and we know that causing cancer. The biggest offender on the list with very high amounts of GLYPHOSATE in it is cheerios.

Needless to say my baby will not be getting them any more with his yogurt.

Dose anyone have a suggestion what I can give him as a cheerio alternative that will be safe, and I do not mind cooking it myself as long as I can make it in bulk and freeze.

I take care of 3 elderly parents with a lot of health problems so I have to be able to through in a dish and run a lot of times.

Thank you for reading and any help any one can suggest.

• This topic was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Stefanie F.

[Stefanie F]

I feed a grain free dry dog food for the past 8 years and give table food bites here and there. (My bichon will go nuts for a cherry tomato, cucumber, brussels sprouts, egg, or cooked spinach. )

For breakfast he has 1/4 of a chobani fruit yogurt with a canine pro biotic powder mixed in. (He will not eat the plain)

Everything was fine until last Thanksgiving when he got into the trash and ate his fill of Turkey skin. He develops pancreatitis and for weeks was on meds and boiled hamburger and white rice.

After I got him back on his regular food he his first poop of the day was normal but the second was poop was gelatinous (mucus covered). Told the vet she adding some cheerios to his breakfast. I did and the problem was fixed.

Now my dilemma I just saw all the news and articles about the oat drying process and how they use RoundUp for it so most oat cereals and breakfast products have high amounts GLYPHOSATE in them and we know that causing cancer The biggest offender on the list with very high amounts of GLYPHOSATE in it is cheerios.

Needless to say my baby will not be getting them any more with his yogurt.

Dose anyone have a suggestion what I can give him as a cheerio alternative that will be safe, and I do not mind cooking it myself as long as I can make it in bulk and freeze.

Thank you for reading and any help.

[Christie B]

I know that like human food, pet food should not be left out for free feeding; Especially in hot weather

My dogs pretty much eat all they’re going to eat within a few minutes. My cat, however, isn’t interested in wet food. He’ll eat a few bites, wander around and sometimes goes back for a nibble. Eventually, he turns his nose up at the food and seeks out my other cat’s dry food.

For the past 4 months or so, a feral cat has wandered around my backyard. I lured him close (he bolts the minute he hears me or the dogs near the back door) by leaving him some food on my deck so I could determine if he has a tipped ear. Then I felt bad for him, because it was winter in the northeast US and I felt leaving him a meal at night was the least I could do to help.

The thing is…I’ve read through forums and sites regarding strays and ferals that the feeders usually go out in the morning and around dusk to feed colonies. It’s like the cats are on schedule, which is the way it should be since they feed the cats and then clean up the mess afterwards. However, my wanderer visits at random hours of the night. Sometimes as early as 11PM and sometimes as late as 4AM and sometimes he returns a few times in between. And sometimes he doesn’t show up at all and I waste a can of food.

Since it’s been relatively cool weather wise, I wasn’t as concerned with the food spoiling. But now that summer may actually make an appearance, I know it’s not safe to leave food out all night. I have only seen this cat during the day twice: once when we jumped over the fence into my yard one morning (and in front of my dog who chased him back over) and another time where my dogs trapped him under my shed (once I called them inside, he took off). But I have a camera in my yard and he hasn’t visited during the day at any other times.

I’m trying to determine if he’s someone’s cat that they let out at night to hunt and wander or if he’s a stray that lives in a colony. I asked people in a FB feral community in my area if anyone knew of a known colony in my town. They won’t tell me because I may be asking for nefarious reasons. But this cat is so random. I don’t mind feeding him if he truly lives outdoors, but I don’t want to bother if he’s some irresponsible person’s pet.

The cat didn’t show the other day and a opossum showed up instead and ate the food. And he came early last night and I didn’t notice and did not return after I set out the food and my camera caught a blue jay eating the food this morning. I don’t want to run the risk of any animal eating food left in hot weather for any length of time. Does anyone have suggestions to get this cat to come earlier if it is a feral?

[Patricia A]

Anon Whole Dog Journal’s article regarding DCM sounds pretty science based to me. There are also articles in Whole Dog Journal regarding the negative effects of yearly vaccinations for our pets . Holistic is not voodoo science anyway. Where some vets will push everything the drug salesman brings to their practice, holistic vets questions the need and the worth of giving certain medications when at times the side effects are worse then the problem . Example flea and tick medicines. Some have devastating effects on the health of our pets and the vets don’t find out till it’s too late. Below is full Whole Dog Journals article .
DCM in Dogs: Taurine’s Role in the Canine Diet
What is taurine-deficiency dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), and how can dog owners prevent it? (Hint: It involves more than just grain-free foods.)

By Linda P. Case – August 15, 20180

TAURINE FOR DOGS: OVERVIEW

Taurine Is Needed For:

1. Healthy heart function
2. As a component of bile acids
3. Retinal function
4. Reproductive health

Dietary Risk Factors for Reduced Taurine Status:

– Low-protein diet (limited taurine precursors)
– Heat-damaged or poor-quality protein sources
– High dietary fiber (i.e., rice bran, beet pulp, cellulose)
– Lamb and rice diets (speculated)
– Plant-based protein sources (peas, lentils, legumes) (speculated)

Possible Risk Factors for Taurine-Deficiency DCM:

BREEDS
American Cocker Spaniel
English Setter
Golden Retriever
Labrador Retriever
Newfoundland
St. Bernard

SIZE
Large-breed dogs
Dogs with slower metabolic rates

DIET
Factors that reduce taurine production
Factors that increase taurine-degrading microbes in the intestine
Factors that reduce bile acid production

In mid-July 2018, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) released an alert to veterinarians and pet owners regarding reports of increased incidence of a heart disease called canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). This disorder is characterized by weakening of the heart muscle, which leads to a decreased ability of the heart to pump, and if untreated, to cardiac failure. The reported cases occurred in breeds that are not considered to be genetically predisposed to this disorder.

Further, a significant number of the dogs were found to have reduced levels of circulating taurine in their blood and have responded positively to taurine supplementation. It is speculated that these cases are related to the consumption of foods that negatively affect taurine status, leading to taurine-deficiency DCM. Foods containing high levels of peas, lentils, other legume seeds, and/or potatoes were identified by the FDA as potential risk factors. These ingredients are found commonly in foods that are formulated and promoted as “grain-free.”

As these things go, there followed a lot of hype and a fair bit of hysteria in response. Let us avoid this type of reaction and instead look at the evidence: What do we currently know about the role of diet and taurine in the development of DCM in dogs – and how is it that “grain-free” foods have been recently targeted as a possible dietary cause?

grain free dog food concerns
Signs of Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) in Dogs

DCM is a disease of the heart, which causes the heart muscles themselves to weaken, which, in turn, reduces the ability of the heart to pump blood through the dog’s body as it should. The heart becomes enlarged and flabby, and fluid begins to accumulate in the dog’s lungs. As this condition progresses, it causes congestive heart failure.

Early signs of DCM may include:

– Lethargy, decreased energy
– A persistent cough
– Difficulty breathing, rapid or excessive breathing, or seeming shortness of breath
– Episodes of collapse
– Anorexia (chronic loss of appetite)

By the time these signs appear, the disease may already be fairly advanced. That’s why it’s important to make an appointment to see your veterinarian right away if your dog displays any of these signs, or more than one of these signs. Often, owners of middle-aged or senior dogs think that their dogs’ symptoms are “just old age,” but a quick diagnosis and treatment can restore an affected dog’s quality of life to nearly normal – and extend the dog’s life far past an untreated dog’s prognosis.

Treatment usually involves medications that help the dog’s heart to contract, slow his rapid pulse, help control the accumulation of fluid in his lungs, and dilate his blood vessels – all actions that will improve the heart’s performance.

What is Taurine? Why Do Dogs Need Taurine?

The nutrient taurine is a unique type of amino acid, called a beta-amino sulfonic acid. It is not incorporated into proteins but rather is found primarily as a free amino acid in body tissues and circulating in the blood. Taurine has many functions, but two that are important for this discussion involve its role in normal heart function and its presence as a component of bile acids, which are needed for fat digestion. Most animals obtain adequate taurine to meet their needs by producing it endogenously (in the body) from two other amino acids, methionine and cysteine.

This means that while most animals require taurine physiologically, most do not have a dietary requirement for taurine. The exception to this rule is the cat. Cats (but not dogs) always require a source of taurine in their food. If they do not have it, one of the diseases that they can develop (and possibly die from) is – you guessed it – DCM.

taurine structure
Taurine-deficiency DCM is well documented in cats. We also know quite a lot about the dietary factors that contribute to this disease in that species. In contrast, dogs (usually) do not require a source of dietary taurine. However, we know that some dogs still develop taurine-deficiency DCM. Why does this happen? The history of DCM in cats can help in untangling what may be occurring in dogs.

Taurine-Deficiency DCM in Cats

Looking back, I cannot avoid a sense of déjà vu. In the early 1980s, veterinarians began reporting increased incidences of DCM in pet cats. By 1987, a role for dietary taurine was suspected. In a seminal study, a veterinary researcher at UC Davis reported low plasma (blood) taurine levels in 21 cats with clinical signs of DCM. 1 When the cats were supplemented with taurine, all 21 recovered from the disease. This discovery led to a series of controlled studies that supported the existence of taurine-deficiency DCM in cats who were fed diets that contained sufficient concentrations of taurine.

What was going on?

It has to do with bile acids. Another role of taurine in the body is that it is necessary for normal bile acid function. Taurine is linked to bile acids in the liver to form bile salts. During digestion, these compounds are secreted into the small intestine, where they function to aid in fat digestion. Animals are very efficient at conserving the taurine that is secreted into the intestine by reabsorbing the bile salts back into the body further down the intestinal tract. This occurs through a process called “enterohepatic reutilization” and prevents a daily loss of taurine in the feces.

Herein lies the problem for cats with DCM: If anything happens during digestion that causes the degradation of the bile salt taurine or that inhibits its reabsorption into the body, more is lost in the feces. If this happens consistently, the cat will experience an increase in his or her daily need for dietary taurine. Simply put – if anything causes the cat to poop out more taurine-bile acid complexes (or their degraded by-products), the cat will be in danger of a taurine deficiency if a higher level is not provided in the diet.

This is exactly what was happening in the cats with taurine-deficiency DCM – and is possibly what we are seeing today in dogs. The difference is that we know what diet factors caused taurine deficiency in cats during the late 1980s. These factors are not yet fully understood for dogs (but we can make a few guesses).

What We Know About Diet and Taurine Status

The studies with cats found that several dietary factors influenced taurine status. These were the level and type of dietary protein, the amount and type of dietary fiber, and the degree of heat that was used during food processing. These factors could affect taurine status in three ways:

1. Bile Acid Binding

Certain fibers and peptides (small protein chains) in the food can bind with bile salts in the small intestine and make them unavailable for reabsorption into the body. This results in an increased daily loss of taurine in the feces and a subsequent increase in daily taurine requirement to replace that loss.

2. Increased Microbial Degradation

Thermal processing of protein (extrusion or canning) can lead to the production of Maillard products – complexes of sugars and amino acids that are poorly digested in the small intestine. The undigested complexes travel to the large intestine and provide an intestinal environment that favors increased numbers of taurine-degrading bacteria. An increase in these bacterial populations reduces the proportion of taurine that is available for reabsorption and reuse by the body.

3. Reduced Taurine Availability

Taurine is found naturally in animal-based proteins but is not found in plant-based protein sources. Therefore, providing diets that include a sufficient level of high-quality animal proteins (that are not heat damaged) should ensure adequate taurine intake.

However, protein that is of low quality or that has been excessively heat-treated will be poorly digested, reducing the availability of taurine and of its precursor amino acids, cysteine and methionine.

In the early 1990s, in response to this new information regarding the interaction of dietary factors and taurine status in cats (and their relationship to DCM in cats), the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) increased the recommendations for dietary taurine in extruded and canned cat foods.

Taurine Deficiency in Dogs

Unlike the cat, dogs who are fed diets containing adequate levels of protein should be capable of synthesizing enough taurine from cysteine and methionine to meet their needs. Therefore, a requirement for dietary taurine has not been generally recognized in dogs.

However, there is evidence – evidence that we have had for at least 15 years – that certain breeds of dogs, and possibly particular lines within breeds, exhibit a high prevalence of taurine-deficiency DCM. Genetically predisposed breeds include the American Cocker Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Saint Bernard, Newfoundland, and English Setter.  Although the exact underlying cause is not known, it appears that some breeds have either a naturally occurring higher requirement for taurine or a metabolic abnormality that affects their taurine synthesis or utilization.

A second factor that affects taurine status in dogs is size. There is evidence that a large adult size and a relatively slow metabolic rate influences the rate of taurine production in the body and may subsequently lead to a dietary taurine requirement. It is theorized that increased body size in dogs is associated with an enhanced risk for developing taurine deficiency and that this risk may be exacerbated by a breed-specific genetic predisposition.

There is additional evidence that large and giant breed dogs have lower rates of taurine production compared with small dogs. Ultimately, studies suggest that certain dogs possess a genetic predisposition to taurine depletion and increased susceptibility to taurine-deficiency DCM and that this susceptibility may be related to the combined factors of breed, size, and metabolic rate.

Taurine in Dog Food Diets

The recent spate of cases and media attention to taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs suggests that this is a very new problem in dogs. However, it is not new. A connection between diet and DCM in dogs was first described in a paper published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in 2001. What is new is the sudden focus on certain pet food ingredients and the target that appears to have been placed upon the backs of all “grain-free” pet food brands by some bloggers and veterinarians.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but the 12 cases of taurine-deficiency DCM described in the 2001 paper were collected between 1997 and 2001, years before grain-free dog foods had arrived on the pet food scene. Rather than disparage one class or type of dog food (or pet food company), it is more important to look at specific dietary factors that may be involved in DCM in dogs.

Generally speaking, these are expected to be the same as those identified for cats, including low protein levels, poorly processed or heat-damaged proteins (leading to Maillard products), and the inclusion of a high proportion of plant-based protein sources such as peas and legumes.

Over the past 15 years, reduced taurine status in dogs has been associated with feeding lamb meal and rice diets, soybean-based diets, rice bran, beet pulp, and high fiber diets. As with cats, there appear to be multiple dietary (and genetic) factors involved.

For example, it was theorized that the perceived (not proven) association between lamb meal and taurine status was due to low levels of available amino acids present in the lamb meal, or to excessive heat damage of the protein, or to the confounding factor of the inclusion of rice bran in many lamb meal-containing foods. To date, none of these factors have been conclusively proven or disproven. However, the most recent study showed that three types of fiber source – rice bran, cellulose, and beet pulp – all caused reduced plasma taurine levels in dogs when included in a marginally low protein diet, with beet pulp causing the most pronounced decrease.

Complicated? You bet. This is why it is important to avoid making unsupported claims about certain foods and brands. Taurine-deficiency DCM has been around for a while in dogs and continues to need study before making definitive conclusions about one or more specific dietary causes.

Current Considerations of Taurine in Dog Food

We know that any dietary factor that reduces the availability of taurine precursors, binds taurine bile salts in the intestine, or causes an increase in the bacteria populations that degrade taurine, can reduce a dog’s ability to synthesize taurine or will increase taurine degradation and/or loss in the feces. These changes could ultimately compromise a dog’s taurine status (especially if the dog was genetically predisposed) and affect heart health. In extreme cases, as we are seeing, this can lead to taurine-deficiency DCM (see “A Few Things to Know About Taurine” above).

The FDA report identified foods that contain high amounts of peas, lentils, legume seeds, or potatoes to be of potential concern. The FDA also stated that the underlying cause of DCM in the reported cases is not known and that at this time, the diet-DCM relationship is only correlative (not causative). However, this has not stopped various bloggers and even some veterinarians from targeting small pet food companies and/or grain-free brands of food, and implying that these foods, and these foods alone, are causing taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs. Their reasoning is that peas and legumes are present in high amounts in foods that are formulated and marketed as grain-free.

However, the truth is that many companies and brands of food include these ingredients. More importantly, there is no clear evidence showing that a particular dog food type, brand, or even ingredient is solely responsible for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

Rather, it is more reasonable and responsible to speculate that one or more of these ingredients, their interactions, or the effects of ingredient quality, heat treatment, and food processing may play a role. Furthermore, the underlying cause could be the protein, starch, or fiber fractions of these ingredients. As plant-source proteins, peas, lentils, and legumes include varying amounts of starch (both digestible and resistant forms) and dietary fiber. These protein sources are also generally less nutritionally complete and less digestible than are high quality animal source proteins – additional factors that could influence a dog’s ability to both produce and use taurine. Potatoes, in contrast, provide a digestible source of starch in an extruded food but also contain varying levels of resistant starch, which is not digested and behaves much like dietary fiber in the intestinal tract.

Conclusions on Grain-Free Food and DCM

Because any or all of these dietary factors could be risk factors for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs, and because peas, legumes, and other ingredients identified by the FDA report have not yet been fully studied, the heart of the matter is that no conclusions can yet be made about the underlying dietary cause or causes of taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

But given what we do know, we recommend feeding a diet that contains sufficient levels of high-quality, animal-source protein, does not include plant-source proteins as primary protein sources, and does not contain high levels of dietary fiber.

If you are worried about your dog’s taurine status or heart health, whether due to his diet history or physical signs that are of concern, see your veterinarian for a complete physical examination and, if needed, to measure plasma levels of taurine. 

Cited Studies

1. Pion PD, Kittleson MD, Rogers QR, et al. “Myocardial failure in cats associated with low plasma taurine: A reversible cardiomyopathy.” Science 1987; 237:764-768.

2. Earl KE, Smith PM. “The effect of dietary taurine content on the plasma taurine concentration of the cat.” British Journal of Nutrition 1991; 66:227-235.

3. Hickman MA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Effect of processing on the fate of dietary taurine in cats.” Journal of Nutrition 1990; 120:995-1000.

4. Hickman HA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Intestinal taurine and the enterohepatic circulation of taurocholic acid in the cat.” Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 1992; 315:45-54.

5. Freeman LM, Rush JE, Brown DJ, et al. “Relationship between circulating and dietary taurine concentrations in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy.” Veterinary Therapeutics 2001; 370-378.

6. Backus RC, Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Low plasma taurine concentration in Newfoundland dogs is associated with low plasma methionine and cysteine concentrations and low taurine synthesis.” Journal of Nutrition 2006; 136:2525-2533.

7. Ko KS, Backus RC, Berg JR, et al. “Differences in taurine synthesis rate among dogs relate to differences in their maintenance energy requirement.” Journal of Nutrition 2007; 137:1171-1175.

8. Fascetti AJ, Reed JR, Roger QR, et al. “Taurine deficiency in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy: 12 cases (1997 – 2001).” Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 2001; 223:1137-1141.

9. Delaney SJ, Kass PH, Rogers QR, Fascetti AJ. “Plasma and whole blood taurine in normal dogs of varying size fed commercially prepared food.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:235-244.

10. Torres CL, Backus RC, Fascetti AJ, et al. “Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:359-372.

11. Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Dietary beet pulp decreases taurine status in dogs fed low protein diet.” Journal of Animal Science and Technology 2016; 58:29-39.

Linda P. Case is the owner of AutumnGold Consulting & Dog Training Center in Mahomet, Illinois. Linda is the author of Dog Food Logic, has a new book, Dog Smart, and writes The Science Dog blog.

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LEAVE A REPLY

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.

[anonymous]

“Natural” means sh*t and is a marketing ploy.

Just give the dog a raw carrot to chew on once a day (not the baby carrots they are bleached and are a choking hazard due to their size)

Bully sticks are bull penises, they are loaded with bacteria and bleached and processed with toxic chemicals.

Ask your vet.

Example:
https://www.azrescue.org/rescue-article-info-center/19 excerpt below
There are a lot of pet treats out on the market and it seems like every week a new brand is getting recalled. I don’t even touch any chicken jerky manufactured in China due to the widespread contamination problems.
More recently I’ve been choosing deer antlers and bully sticks, thinking that they’re safer since they’re all natural. But according to a study published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal, there are two potential problems with bully sticks (also called pizzle sticks).
The first concern is an excessive amount of calories. The scientists calculated nine to 22 calories per inch, meaning that a 6-inch bully stick could represent nine percent of the daily recommended calorie count for a 50-pound dog or a whopping 30 percent of the requirements for a smaller 10-pound dog. This I’m less worried about as I usually adjust my pets’ dinner if they get a large treat during the day.
The second finding is much more serious. In testing 26 bully sticks, the researchers found one contaminated with Clostridium difficile, one with methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), and seven with E. coli. The scientists admitted that the sample size was small, but recommended that people should at least wash their hands after touching bully sticks.
I hope that they repeat the study on a larger scale, differentiating by finishing process. Some bully stick companies sun-bake their product, while others irradiate or bake the sticks indoors. I’m sure that these differences can affect bacteria levels.
It would also be good if they gave recommendations on how to get rid of the bacteria. I know that some people bake bully sticks in the oven before giving them to their pets, but it’s not a proven method.
I think that this study goes to show how careful we have to be in researching our pets’ food. I already know a lot about picking a good kibble, but this study has inspired me to do a better job at finding out the origin and manufacturing process for the treats I feed my crew. And it underscores the many benefits of making your own treats at home!

[InkedMarie]

Here is what I don’t get. IF we’re all talking about the same group, when you join, you agree to read the units. Quite obviously, many people don’t. Read the units, spend a little time reading posts and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see what the group is there for and who runs it.

Professionals started the group…ie Dr Joshua Stern and many others. I will listen to their recommendations over anyone else. They recommend feeding foods that follow WSAVA guidelines. It’s that simple. That’s the recommendation. Currently, Royal Canin, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams and Purina are the only WSAVA compliant. There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation. If you think your food is, print out the guidelines and call the company. See if they are compliant. The hopes is that other companies will start following the guidelines.

Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted.

It does not matter who works for who…..and I have no clue who does nor do I care. Everyone has to earn a living. If the food follows WSAVA compliant, it is recommended.

If you don’t like the group, leave. It’s that simple. It’s Facebook people. There are other groups.

If you’re here asking questions and we discuss DCM and post links to help….read them. Stop asking about other foods & if they’re good for this issue. We’ve told you what the recommendation is. If you don’t want to feed those foods….fine. It’s hard to be passionate about this issue, try to help then have people ignore. I will only continue to post in hopes others are reading and may be somewhat educated.

Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave. I have said that for years about DFA. Don’t like the reviews? There are other sites that may be to your liking.

[Christie B]

On the topic of “the big 4”, I think it’s important to go beyond the parent company and look at the ingredients on the bag to determine what food you should buy. Some product lines within a company are better than others. I don’t think you can rank Dog Chow the same as Pro Plan or Pedigree the same as Nutro.

Ingredients are important. 3 Chicken Formula Dry Food Ingredients Lists:

GROUND WHOLE GRAIN CORN, POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL (SOURCE OF GLUCOSAMINE AND CHONDROITIN SULFATE), CORN GLUTEN MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (SOURCE OF OMEGA 6 FATTY ACIDS [PRESERVED WITH BHA & CITRIC ACID]), MEAT AND BONE MEAL (SOURCE OF CALCIUM), SOYBEAN MEAL, GROUND WHOLE GRAIN WHEAT, BREWERS RICE, NATURAL FLAVOR, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL, DRIED PLAIN BEET PULP, SALT, CALCIUM CARBONATE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, DRIED PEAS, ZINC SULFATE, DL-METHIONINE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, NIACIN [VITAMIN B3], BIOTIN, DRIED CARROTS, L-TRYPTOPHAN, BHA & CITRIC ACID (A PRESERVATIVE), BLUE 2, YELLOW 5, YELLOW 6, d-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN B5], RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT [VITAMIN B2], RED 40, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE [VITAMIN B6], COPPER SULFATE, SODIUM SELENITE, POTASSIUM IODIDE, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, FOLIC ACID

Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal (source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, whole grain corn, oat meal, medium-chain triglyceride vegetable oil, pea fiber, dried egg product, natural flavor, fish oil, barley, fish meal (source of glucosamine), L-Arginine, mono and dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, salt, Vitamin E supplement, potassium citrate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, manganese sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, choline chloride, and sodium selenite

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, White Rice, Oatmeal, Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat, Menhaden Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Dried Whole Egg, Cheese, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Monocalcium Phosphate, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

So the first one is a mess of “poor quality” ingredients and artificial colors. I would give that food a hard pass every day. In fact, I know someone with a Lab who has fed this food for the dog’s entire life. This 10 year old has a lot of joint and mobility issues.

The second one has the dreaded by-product label (at least it’s poultry and not ‘meat’ ) and lots of grains. Fish meal can be found a ways down the list for a boost of glucosamine.

The third has chicken and chicken meal as the first two ingredients, a plus for sure… and then Barley, rice, more rice and oatmeal follow…not ideal.

Are any of these GREAT food choices?

Every single time I go to the pet store, I wander the aisles reading ingredients lists. All I see are legumes and potatoes. Are they causing DCM? There’s no concrete evidence one way or the other yet. Was the my dog doing fine on Chicken and Rice for the first few years of his life before I found this website and gasped at the low rating his food received? Absolutely. Did I switch the grain free after reading through these forums? Sure did. Has he done ok with switch, all these years later? Nope. He’s developed allergies and sensitivities. But is it because of grain free formulas? I haven’t found concrete evidence proving that x and y caused the issues.

It’s a learning process to find what works best for your dog. Some can’t have grains, some can. My vet suggests feeding him boiled chicken and white rice when he’s not feeling well. Is my vet stupid or just telling me what he knows from his 30+ years of experience might help my dog. Has he called grain free food evil? No, but he cautions against it only because the inclusion of legumes and potatoes are ‘relatively’ new to animal nutrition and there isn’t enough research and studies done to prove that they are safe in the long term.

He told me that he’s always given his dogs Pro Plan but have never pushed me to purchase any of the big 4 brands. In fact, he said the best thing I can do is read the ingredients list myself. And to transition food properly. And if my dog has issues after eating 1-2 bags of a food, to look at the current ingredients and find a food that’s different.

[haleycookie]

Hills is owned by Colgate. Like the toothpaste company. Idk if there are multiple but there is one production factory here in my state. Smells absolutely disgusting when you drive by it.

And of course there’s some conflict of interest in these companies and how they’re the only ones that can fit into wsava requirements. Wsava was make by and for those three companies. I would tread cautiously.

Feed your dog a meat based food (better yet rotate multiple meat based foods) add canned food, raw toppers, raw chicken hearts, bone broth, etc and feed as much fresh foods as possible. Don’t over feed, make sure the dog gets proper exercise, and regular vet visits. These are the best things you can do. I would avoid carb loaded foods such as the big 5 foods being recommended currently. Taurine isn’t found in any type of carb, it’s found in fresh meat and organs. People seem to be forgetting that.

[anonymous]

I have a dog with environmental allergies. It started with ear infections, then pruritus, If you go to the search engine “environmental allergies” you will see my numerous posts.
Of course there are other causes, get the dog properly diagnosed by a veterinary dermatologist.
Or work closely with your regular vet, the steroids and antibiotics are just bandaid stuff. Get to the root of the problem.
I am sorry but you may have a high maintenance pup.

I hope this helps.

http://www.mspca.org/angell_services/dermatology-allergies/Ear Diseases. excerpt below

Otitis externa is the medical term for ear inflammation. Most cases of otitis externa also have an infection that is causing the ear inflammation.

The structure of the ear in dogs and cats can make them more prone to ear infections. The ear canal in dogs and cats is longer than the ear canal in people. The ear canal is also “L-shaped” with vertical and horizontal parts.

Because only some dogs and cats develop ear infections, other conditions often contribute to the development of otitis externa and ear infections in your pet. Allergies, parasites, and masses or tumors can all cause ear irritation and infection. Allergies are the most common cause of ear infections in dogs and cats. Since an ear infection can be secondary to an underlying problem, it is often important to diagnose and treat the cause of the ear infection while treating the ear infection.

An ear infection can develop into a severe health problem for a dog or cat. Left untreated, ear infections can spread deeper into a pet’s ear (middle ear infection) and cause permanent damage to the ear canal (ear canal mineralization). Some chronic ear infections can develop resistance to antibiotics and become untreatable with medications.

[joanne l]

I do appreciate everyone’s input, and I am evaluating everyone’s opinion. I did read the article, and also they are mentioning grain free, exotic meats, and boutique brands. I also read that when dogs diets were changed to grain in they improved if the DCM was not too far gone. I will find the article and post it.
I think we all are aware of this, and I started off this thread for opinion’s on Fromm grain in foods. And since everyone has a different opinion it is hard to say if I should use it. Well there are plenty of other good foods out there, so I will keep Fromm on the back burner until brands are mentioned in this matter. As far as peas and legumes are concerned I won’t use them, there is one thing I know for sure, is that peas and legumes prohibited absorption of certain minerals and amino acids. That is a fact. With just that I won’t use grain free period!! So for the people that think peas and legumes are okay in a canine diet long term is wrong. And thank you everyone for the information. I know it can get crazy when we discuss things, but we do have to remember that everyone is just trying to help one another. And maybe someone know more than another and maybe not. But it is all good that we can discuss things. That’s how we learn and keep on top of it. Thank you.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Hey everyone, I did not hear back from you guys? I wanted to try Royal C. but since it is made by Mars I don’t think I will. The FDA did investigation and found very unclean situation over there. My website explains it and it sounds terrible!! I say this respectfully, I don’t care if Royal Canine is one of the “better foods” to feed I do not feel comfortable feeding it at this time. Just wanted everyone to know what I found out. Maybe you guys know it already.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[amy r]

Hi ALL!

It is so wonderful (albeit somewhat sad) to hear others talk about the gulping! I have talked to Boone’s vets for many years about this to no avail. He has also been scoped, x-rayed, etc. Nothing found out of the ordinary. But these gulping episodes continue. It can be once or twice a year, or every few months. Stress and excitement to be the main cause, although Boone has always had a touchy GI. Once he starts it can get so bad I have to leash him to me or he’ll lick the floors in the entire house, or worse. It’s happened where I have come home and he has eaten dangerous things like a 1.5″ thick rubber mat. Bedding, clothing, leashes, anything he can get his mouth on is ingested. Now if I leave him he in gated in the laundry room with no bed or blankets or anything he could eat (unless he chews the walls… which would not totally surprise me). Once he ate so much blanket, that a week later he threw up a ball of blanket that was the size of a small game hen. Scary. I have had to use hydrogen peroxide on him on several occasion because he grabbed something and ate it before I realized what was happening. It can happen in an instant and impossible to keep my eyes on him every minute, though I do try.

This has radically changed our life as the episodes have become more intense with age. I can’t leave him with anyone unless they watch him every moment, I can only leave him unattended in a room set up specifically for this issue, and I even hesitate to take him in the truck anymore, since he can (and has) eat the seats in the few moments that I might be in the store. Or… he might be fun. But it’s risky.

We could go months and no episodes, but when it does it’s dangerous for him. It sounds like many of you know exactly what this is like… they are frantic, incessantly licking and gulping and coughing. It’s so terrible. Boone gulps air of course and then I can hear his stomach making noise from it.

Sometimes I am able to distract him, taking him for a walk, feeding him something soft like rice, playing a game, gently stroking his neck and talking to him about good things until he relaxes. But other times none of this works at all and we’re in it for the long haul, just making sure he doesn’t hurt himself.

Boone has always been a bit high stress, has separation anxiety, and needs a lot of exercise. Exercise and being tired helps but only to a point. He is also a bit OCD, in that once he locks in on something it is very difficult to change his mind. For this reason, I believe that mostly the episodes are triggered by anxiety, but again, he has had some stomach issues and I am thinking about what I can have on hand that some of you have mentioned that might help. For sure once he’s begun this behavior it would help to be able to give him something to calm his stomach, if not his brain.

It just feels comforting to be able to read your stories and know that we’re not alone with this complex and bewildering behavior. It so upsetting to not be able to know how to help. If only love could fix everything! 🙂

[joanne l]

Hi I am sorry to hear about your dog, mine too does that. You are right it has something to do with his diet. My dog had a eye infection and the vet gave him antibiotics. When I stopped the med’s it returned. I knew I had to find the cause. So I switched his food and in a couple of days the eye infection went away and did not return. There is a dry food called Holistic Select, you can get it on chewy. It has a lot of probiotics in it, this food is designed for that. Read the reviews on chewy they have lamb, chicken, fish, duck, turkey flavors. I been through a lot with my other dog as well, and sometimes the vets don’t know all the exacted causes. I am not saying don’t ask a vet, but you feed the dog and observe what the outcome is. In my situation with his eyes I observed and thank God I found the cure. Just try this food and do it gradually, mixing with his old food for a 10 to 12 day period. example: if you feed 3 cups a day, than in a container mix 2 1/2 cups old and 1/2 cup new do that for 2 days. If stools are good than continue by mixing more of the new and less of the old, in 1/2 cups. example: 2 cups old and 1 cup new you get the idea. Hope it works, let me know. Believe me diet has a lot to do with it!! I think it is better to start on diet before you go to the vet a load up on meds. Certainly if diet correction does not work than go to a vet. Hope the best for you.
I forgot to mention, is he still having problems even with Crave? Well anyway if you use Holistic Select you will not need to buy probiotics. This is loaded with it. Sorry for all the edits but I knew a friend that his dog had skin problems and the vet gave him meds after meds, and finally the vet said lets change his diet and bingo his skin cleared. The owner was relieved b/c the dog was on meds for 2 years. which was not good.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[Dayne N]

Where are the reviews you read I cannot find any.

[Simba C]

Hi, I don’t have a dog yet but I may be adopting one this summer. I’ve recently learned about raw feeding and I think it’s much better than feeding kibble, but I do have a few questions.

Which is cheaper? Commercial or homemade?
I live near My Pet Carnivore and was thinking of ordering their food. Will I need to add supplements for their whole grounds?
How do I prevent bacteria from the raw meat spreading when the dog runs around the house? I live with the elderly and young children.
There seems to be no vet near me that supports raw feeding, I’ve emailed them and they all say it’s nutritionally imbalanced and I should not be doing it. How do I convince them otherwise?
I don’t have a local co-op but my friend is thinking of doing raw as well, can we make a mini co-op together?

Thanks.

[Bud J]

Hi, I’m just getting started in researching dog food. I’ve been fostering my current pup, Grayson, for about a year. He has seizures about once a week and is on keppra, phenobarbital and hemp. I’m currently doing research and looking for support because he is dealing with substantial allergies and I’m highly suspecting it’s food allergies. He has a lot of itching, chews at his feet and has bald spots and scabbing around his hips, hind legs and groin area. He has been an itchy dog pretty much entire time I’ve had him but the scabbing is by far the worst it’s ever been.

He was put on a steroid for a couple weeks which really helped, but had it’s own side effects. The last 2 dog foods we’ve had are American Journey Grain Free Salmon and Sweet Potato and True Acre Foods Chicken and Vegetable Grain Free. He was mostly eating True Acre when the symptoms got bad, but then switched to American Journey and symptoms continued to progress. Both foods have chicken as a main ingredient and therefore I’m thinking he’s reacting to chicken. As of 2 days ago, I switched him to a Heritage Ranch Salmon and Sweet Potato Food only because it was the only dog food at my store which didn’t have chicken as a main ingredient.

So, I’m currently l’m looking into switching him to a different simple ingredient dog food. Canidae salmon and sweet potato is the one I’m leaning towards, but I’m also researching doing a raw diet.
I’m sure there’s several posts on this site which have helpful info, but wanted to introduce myself and I’ll start searching around to see what others have already posted.

Thank you,
Grandpa J

[joanne l]

https://www.livestrong.com/article/426939-essential-amino-acids-in-vegetables/
Here is a link read the paragraph about beans and legumes. This might be very helpful to understand something. As it states how Legumes and beans do not contain amino acid methionine, which is important. I am just doing research to see what I can find. A little bit of picking at it might come down to some kind of understanding. All I know is, what I read about legumes and peas and beans I DO NOT want to give that to my dog. I would NOT feel good about it. As far as my Vet, he mentioned to feed regular grain in dog food. He mentioned to me grain free is not been established to know enough about it in the long run. Bottom line he don’t like grain free diets.
And thank you crazy4cats for the info.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.

[joanne l]

Here is another article to read: Should anal glands be expressed manually?
Dog lovers are often misinformed because they are told they should get their dog’s anal glands emptied. Some veterinarians and groomers believe that expressing them will prevent them from filling up, which is not correct. In reality, the more frequently they are squeezed, the less toned they are. It almost seems that the canine glands get ‘lazy’ by having them squeezed too often.
Ideally, you should let your dog’s anal glands do their job and allow them to empty naturally. Most dogs’ anal glands tend to be semi-full when examined, but that is not a reason to have them expressed.
That is from this website: https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014181-holistic-approach-to-anal-gland-problems-in-dogs

There are different opinions on everything, I guess do what works.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by joanne l.