My 18lb Welsh Terrier has a mild-moderate case of Protein Losing Enteropathy.
Our Vet specialist has recommended a Purina HA diet that’s made of “hydrolyzed protein”. Unfortunately I’m wary of anything made by Purina and hydrolyzed protein sounds horribly processed. So I’m looking for suggestions.
I’ve read that MCT oil (for humans) can help. Not sure how much to give her..
What about kibble and/or raw food? Brands and types would be appreciated if you’ve had success with any.
I switched her from Purina Pro Plan sensitive stomach (salmon) variety to Orijen’s Fish formula and “Primal”‘s raw lamb wet food. Her spirits are good. She’s eating well and she doesn’t seem to be losing weight around the middle..though I suspect that she might be losing muscle mass.
Other things to note:
She’s allergic to chicken and starts to itch just looking at it. Not sure about turkey or duck.
A dog we had had this in 2005. I had to find a food to help her stop dropping weight, I did a consultation with a vet nutritionist from Tufts. Purina HA was her recommendation. For my dog, it was a matter of life & death so I used it.steve johnsonMember
My friend’s yorkie had PLE. She went to so many specialists and her poor dog was on so many drugs. Finally, she went on yorkietalk and a lot of the people in that group worked with the nutritionist on http://www.AskAriel.com with good results. She gave it a try along with a few of the supplements for digestion and IBD and her yorkie seems to be feeling a lot better.young101Participant
My 10 year old weimaraner Blu also has PLE. Here in the UK we have Hills Science Plan Prescription Diet – she has a scoop of their “d/d salmon and rice” dry food for lunch. It’s listed as being hypoallergenic and for skin complaints but it’s also used for PLE (vet reccommended we use it)
Breakfast and dinner she has Chappie tinned food which is also fish based. The advice from the vet was to put her on a high protein low fat diet, protein from fish rather than red meats, for treats things like cottage cheese and eggs (I must admit I restrict the amount of eggs she has as you can imagine the side effects!)
Coconut oil is an MCT, dogs find it more palatable than the MCT liquid oil. It comes in a solid form in a jar, I add a tablespoon a day to her food, maybe a teaspoon a day for your yorkie?
Blu is also on steroids to treat the PLE but the diet definitely helped in getting her protein levels back up.
Good luck!Christi GMember
I just wanted to share with you my experience with using supplements and coconut oil in my sister’s dog – Maya. 3 years ago she was diagnosed with PLE after this last round of steroids (last one taken on 12/2) my sister decided to let maya die peacefully. She took her off of all her chemo drugs (for PLE) on 12/10 and we knew the end would come soon… but I had a different plan. So, I used what I know about about supplements and did a ton of research!
For a month and a 1/2 now, I’ve been feeding her coconut oil, CLA, A ginger enzyme and half of a one of my probiotics – now I use the GNC product (see below). I also started feeding her homemade food and giving her a good breakfast and dinner and 2 small meals in between. Her diet is made up of white rice (I melt the coconut oil in the white rice and add a spoon full of cream of chicken soup to disguise the taste and I add the ginger enzyme – good for disgestion and cardiovascular health, a probiotic and cla (helps breakdown fat and build protein) to her breakfast), either sweet peas & carrots or green beans, and I mix up her proteins with boiled chicken, canned salmon (MAKE SURE YOU GET THE BONELESS!!) or tuna fish in water. I give her about a half a breast of chicken. Also, she gets GNC’s Superfood complex with joint support. Dogs love the taste and it is packed with good stuff – probiotics, joint supplement, tons of vitamins and supplements!
My sister was checked into the hospital on the 16th and I will admit I got lazy with Maya’s meals because of work and going back and forth to the hospital. After 4 days without her supplements and oil, I sat down on Sunday a week ago and it was like she dropped 2 lbs in less than a week. So, I went back to my routine with the oil and supplemnts. In just a 3 days she was looking beef again and as of yesterday she had gained almost 2 lbs since her last weigh in back in December. The vet said “well, I guess we have her on the right meds” and I was like “she’s off her meds… since mid-December.” The vet was shocked! I didn’t tell her my secret as my sister thinks cocconut oil is too fatty for her… well, it’s doing wonders. Maya has an ear infection and a check up in 10 days… I can’t wait to see her weigh-in in 10 days!!
All I can say is that she is off all drugs and the supplements and oil are working great….Don’t look for overnight results. Give it a week or 2 to really start working.
I hope this helps with your babies!
Maya – weigh in after off drugs in December 55
Maya – weigh in yesterday (no drugs for over a month) 57.9 lbs
Protein levels have increased, she is happy and energetic and her skin and coat have improved b/c the drugs aren’t drying her out. She is eating and drinking normally. she used to slurp down half the bowl when on her meds.Lynelle VMember
Thank you so much for sharing the post above. Our situation sounds exactly like Maya’s. We were just told by our vet that there is little left to do with Daisy. She is the same weight as Maya. I feel so bad for her. Her poor bloated belly and the rest of her, barely there is heartbreaking. I shared your post with my vet and he said to immediately start this with her. I just needed to know how much food and supplements did you give to Maya and at which meals? I saw her breakfast menu, but not the others. Also, how much of each supplement did you use? I saw that you mentioned CLA. Where did you get that? I don’t have much time as Daisy has really gone downhill fast even though she has been on all the drugs and she has been on Royal Canin’s g/i canned food with extra chicken and rice thrown in. Please respond as I desperately need some precise information. If it worked for Maya, maybe it could work for us. Thanks. I appreciate it!Cathryn CMember
How much of these supplements would I give to a 25 pound French bulldog? He was gaining weight and now has lost 1.1 lb in the last 2 weeks. He is on Hills Science diet z/d and takes 1 pill (budesonide) every day. I totally don’t know what to feed him or how much of anything to give him. He has been throwing up a little off and on for the last 2 weeks so it did not surprise me his weight was down again. Our vet could do no more for him so we saw a specialist. Cleansing with white rice and cottage cheese for a week, half z/d and white rice for another week then all dog food. I did keep giving him a little of the white rice with his food since he liked it. And no people food ever. Everything was going along well for about 2 months but now he is back peddling. I believe his situation is becoming dire at this point. I can’t give him extra meals because I do have to work to pay for all of this. 3.5 more years. He won’t last that long at this rate. He is almost 6 years old. I need some help or advice. It is almost dinner time and I dread giving him the same old thing and expecting a different result. At my wits end. TyChristi GMember
Get Dandelion root supplements for the bloating… I actually take it myself – maya’s not really overly bloated so she’s not getting it but she did bloat for a few days and that’s when I ordered it – more for me – not Maya. It has a lot of medicinal benefits and is cheap. For a dog your size, I would do 2 of these in the morning (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002IWCLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1) . I’ve read great things about it and my I don’t have any bloating myself. Also, give him ginger supplements for his nausea. Maya’s doing well but my sister wanted to wean her back on to her dry food. Is your dog on a probiotic? I suggest this because it chock full of supplements and vitamins and dogs love the taste. One tub will last you about 2.5 months: http://www.gnc.com/dog-multivitamins/341085.html?mrkgcl=1098&mrkgadid=3200889428&rkg_id=h-876542dade62516db72bd07b9aef859c_t-1520201684&product_id=341085&flagtype=brand&vendor=none&channel=ppc&adpos=1o1&creative=189757865686&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAiAz-7UBRBAEiwAVrz-9e9uY6iLC8kTrcBew5YVlkiombzLsfzn7aJnIzn5CfR4ZM51zItEJhoCYCgQAvD_BwE
Maya is getting much less food at her normal meals because I’m home to give her the mini meals. I think that has prevented the bloating as well. She’s about 58lbs – she gets about 1/3 cup of her dry food, 1/2 cup of white rice (the GNC supplement mixes well with the rice) and about 1/3 of a large boiled chicken breast for b’fast and dinner. For lunch and late dinner she gets green beans (about 1/3 cup) and more of the same amount of chicken. My sister asked to not give her the CLA or coconut oil any longer but I truly feel it was beneficial. She gained about 3 lbs and was highly energetic… but she’s doing well now just lost a little weight. 🙁 I had to step back and realize this was not my dog but my sister’s and her wishes are what I need to abide by… but the info from this post is what she is currently getting and I still think the info from my last post was good info. If you start your dog on coconut oil – which I would not do at this point – maybe if you can get his health under control then you can (maybe a 1/2 tbsp in the AM for his size – but start out at 1/4 tbsp for a few days as he will get diarrhea if you start him out on too much to soon… that didn’t happen with Maya but it did with me last year when I started taking coconut oil!). Maybe if you give him a normal breakfast and then an early smaller dinner and then a mini meal (I mean, were talking green beans and rice and chicken – much less than your dry food) around 7 or 8, it will help. I’m personally not a fan of any dry food but fromm’s and it’s very expensive but when I see things like meat by-product and meat parts on the side of a bag of food that costs almost $100 (a very large bag) it just pisses me off! As far as the CLA, I would just puncture and squeeze out the liquid onto his food – just one in the AM (this is the one I gave maya: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MT0OT71/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
PLEASE REMEMBER – I AM NOT A VET OR A DOCTOR OF ANY KIND AND AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT OR HOW YOU USE THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN. I am only sharing my own experiences over the past 3 months since Maya was taken off her meds…. I think she’s better off without them. I mean, who wants to take chemo meds for the rest of their lif?
I think VETs get overly invested in “specialty” dry dog food without really even knowing the ****-crap they put in that food and in prescribing meds without doing any other research involving natural supplements.
FIRST thing though – you need to get him on a probiotic. That can help “even out” what’s going on in his gut… and that has a positive effect on other things. AND get the Dandelion Root. Order through amazon with the links I gave you and if you don’t have it, sign up for a trial prime account so you can get them within 2 days! Also, with the GNC supplement/probiotic powder, you can sign up for auto delivery and get it for $18… just go back and either cancel the auto-delivery later and/or change the delivery to like 2 months or so based on your dogs usage. Given his weight, the tub will last you at least 2.5 months. Read the directions and start out with a smaller dose for a few days and then the whole dose once his body is used to it. I would not do coconut oil until you get his bloating and throwing up under control. I truly hope this helps… and I hope vets will start taking a more holistic approach to treating dogs… and instead of insisting on dog food that they sell, think about how simple meals with good supplements can benefit the dog… and not how the vet’s dog food can supplement their bank accounts!Lynelle VMember
Thank you Christi. I really appreciate the help. Daisy is on a probiotic and enzymes as well as folic acid, potassium and magnesium. We are adding the coconut oil and CLA when it comes back. She is not doing well, but we are going to give this a go! Thanks for a holistic option.Cathryn CMember
Thanks so much Christi for the information. You truly went above and beyond with this information and the links. I am going to try these supplements with Tank and I pray they work like they did for your sisters dog. Thanks again. And may God bless you all.Vicky FMember
My little dog Jack was suffering with severe belly bloat filled with fluid. Had to have it drained 3 times. Took him to an Internal Medical doctor who put him on a Lasix diuretic called Furosemide. Highly recommend for the fluid in the belly. It was a miracle, his belly bloat is gone but is now skin and bones. Doctor said to get weight on him asap before organ failure. I’ve been giving him boiled chicken mixed with white rice and mixed vegetables and kibble offered all day. He seems to be getting tired of both and I’m looking for ideas to fatten him up quick.Anick AMember
After so long, We have finally found unique ways of dealing with this!
Growth sensitive GI and Revive, 50/50 mix of canned (revive) and dry (sensitive GI) together
Made by Rayne Clinical Nutrition…best gift ever :-)))))Loretta CMember
I’m new here and really need some advice from everyone. My dog a corgi, has done a biopsy and been diagnosed with IBD and PLE. She has been on Pred for 4 weeks now and her protein level is still not going up. She is still getting bloated and it just seems the Pred isn’t working. The internal medicine doctor wants her to go on a chemo drug but I really don’t want her to do that. Has anyone found any success. I’ve tried the hills diet hypoallergenic but it didn’t work. I’m now doing home cooking w/ probiotics and also digestive enzyme, she still skin and bones. Please any advice would be much appreciated.Ellie CMember
Hi, I have a 5 year old french bulldog dying of PLE. I have taken him to many specialist and they tell me his prognosis isnt too good. He was on prednisone and chorambucil (chemo) and his protein levels kept dropping. We since stopped the chlorambucil and switched to cyclosporine and still he is not improving. He is started to be affected neurologically by the steroids (hallucinating and losing motor coordination). I have tapered down the prednisone to 2.5mg BID and he is still on cyclosporine but I’m hesitant to continue because I want his remaining time with me to be good and not full of side effects. Tonight I bought dandeliion root, CLA, and GNC superfood recommended by ChristiG on this thread. Ive also reached out to Rick Scheyer for help at http://www.doglivershunt.com. I am trying everything I possibly can. I really need help. His cholesterol is low (79), Total protein 3.8 (albumin 2.3, globulin 1.5), wbc 27,500 with sediment in the urine so suspect a UTI. Still trying to touch base with vet since its a holiday on what to do. Considering Gastrocom (sodium chromoglycolate) or olsalazine. I’ve only researched this and awaiting vet feedback. We see a holistic vet where he gets ozone, accupuncture, and chinese herbs. He also started a fecal transplant with animal biome. We need help! Please anyone advise. I am so scared to lose my baby. Located in bay area, willing to travel for assistance.AnonymousInactive
I’m so sorry about your dog.
What are you feeding? Dogs with PLE require a low fat to utra low fat diet.Ellie CMember
He’s really picky so right now he’s eating 1.5 cans of tuna in water and bilked chicken in ID chicken stew or low-fat royal canine canned good. sweet potato for snacks, fruit. Thinking of switching him to a protein he’s never had but I’m awaiting our appointment with UC DAVIS nutrition to switch his food. I did buy GNC superfood complex and dandelion root as recommended on this thread. I will try it Saturday when it arrives. Before he got sick he’d eat a lot of vegetables and lean ground turkey with brown rice cooked in. Coconut oil. He’d have an occasional egg and oatmeal in the morning.
My lab/rottweiler mix was diagnosed with ple last year and with another PLE disease about 4 years ago. He was put on steroids and it worked for a year but got sick again this year. Again we tried Prednisone and metronidazole and he was still losing protein and weight. He was also on Prednisone for 4 months and I think that damaged his liver. We tried Chlorambucil for a couple of weeks and that did nothing. The vet suggested another medication but we decided not to keep drugging him. She said he would die in maybe days or weeks. We’ve been weaning him off Prednisone slowly and I’ve been giving him boiled chicken breast, brown rice with peas or spinach and 1 tablespoon of canned pure pumpkin or sweet potato for breakfast and dinner, I also give him a tablespoon of low fat plain yogurt with a dropper of Ginger and a half teaspoon of Tumeric in the morning. I also give him the CNG supplement thanks to the posts above. I’ve also just started supplementing him with a can of Canidea Salmon or Lamb formula for lunch when I am able to, he’s a big boy. So far so good, he’s at least stable and maybe a bit stronger these days. I also read about milk thistle so I give him some of that with his dinner to help his liver. I don’t know what the future holds but he’s better for now. I buy a big batch of chicken breast on the weekends and freeze half so I only cook once/week. I’d like to find some other food option so I don’t have to rely on home cooking, I tried the Purina HA but that seems to give him ore diarrhea.
I’m happy to say it’s been 3-4 months on a homemade diet and he’s still going strong.Brittany BParticipant
I have a Pit bull mix that was diagnosed this PLE about 5 to 6 yrs ago. He was given a script from the vet that made is symptoms worse. I reached out to a friend who suggested putting him on a Vegetarian diet, which worked great for him at first we were able to him back on track The food brand is Natural Balance. it is a little pricey but it helped along with his medications to get him back on track he was on that for a few years when I decided I wanted to start Implementing some type of low protein meat into his food so I did research and started him on Natures Recipe. I seen it was natural dog food, and now he eats the Lamb Meal & Rice. He has been on this food for about 3 years and it seems to be doing well for him.
When he was diagnosed he was advised to be on a low protein diet. This is why I tried the vegetarian food first which was good for him and he loved. The lamb is also low in protein and easy for him to digest.
In the beginning of his diagnosis he lost a lot of muscle, he wasn’t as active as he used to be. He was the only animal I had at the time of his diagnosis. I winded up going to walmart one day and a lady was giving away puppies. I couldn’t help but get one. I noticed Once the new dog came into play he became more active. and more like himself. he began to build muscle back and started looking and acting healthier.
He is also on Metranitazole & Prednisone as well which helps him as well.Caroline DParticipant
Hello, my experience with my three-year-old German shepherd who has IBD and PLE (Protein Losing Entropy), and we’ve been fighting this horrific autoimmune disease for over three years. We are still fighting this disease. His chronic and intermittent diarrhea has not stopped since we got him at five months old. His current weight is 43 pounds, but he should weigh around 85 pounds. He has a considerable appetite in which he gets five to six cups of food five times a day. We had x-ray’s, ultrasound, blood tests (no EPI), and endoscopy. The endoscopy biopsies of the stomach and duodenum examination showed that he has segmental lymphoplasmacytic gastritis. In other words, moderate lymphoplasmacytic and eosinophilic duodenitis with mild lymphangiectasia. Unfortunately, this year the diagnosis was changed to severe IBD along with PLE. We tried several grain-free diets over the past three and half years (i.e., Fromm, Taste of Wild, Wellness, Acana, Honest Kitchen, K-9 Natural, and Ziwi Peak), including the prescription diet Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein kibble as well as the formulated home-cooked diet from Just Food For Dogs. We tried antibiotics, Tylan, and Metronidazole. Steroids, Budesonide, and Prednisone. We give him bimonthly B-12 shots since his Albumin levels are low. We’ve attempted herbs under guidance of a holistic vet: slippery elm, psyllium seed husks, chamomile flowers, chia seeds, fennel seed, rosemary leaf, marshmallow root, dandelion root, burdock root, ginger root, ox bile, apple cider vinegar, Plantain, Aloe Vera, colostrum, Tumeric, and pumpkin as well as digestive enzymes, pre-biotics, and probiotics. We tried AnimalBiome Gut Restore supplements. We tried stem cell therapy, which failed because the vet could not extract any fat. My dog has 0% fat as well as 0% muscle. His organs are slowly deteriorating from this horrific disease. We currently have him on a home-cooked diet recommended by a holistic nutritional veterinarian along with supplements and bi-monthly B-12 injections. But to no avail, he still has chronic diarrhea daily and no weight gain. We’ve tried everything medical, scientifically, and holistically. The only hope we have is to try stem-cell therapy again if he can gain fifteen pounds. I genuinely believe that stem cell therapy is the best solution for my dog. Even though it was a little late for my dog to have stem cell therapy because of a lack of knowledge from several of my local vets, I still have a little hope. I will add CLA to his cooked food since this is the only supplement I have not tried that Christi G. recommended; what do I have to lose. I pray for my boy every day to gain 10-15 pounds so that he can get the life-saving stem cell treatment again in Southern California. He is such a happy, tail wagging, playful, energetic, and beautiful boy; I cannot give up on him like the vets in Nevada, they said to euthanize him. I won’t until he stops thriving.Debra KParticipant
My 13yr old Toy Poodle got sick, over this past Memorial Day weekend. She had horrible diarrhea and vomiting. I took her to the vet, who did all sorts of blood, urine tests and a sonogram. I’ve spent $1000 and now he wants ($650 worth) MORE tests!! I had been giving her psyllium husks and TUMS (he told me to, because of low calcium). He also wanted to sell me a $40 bag of dog food (I KNOW she won’t eat). I agreed to another $400 of tests this Thurs. Supposedly she has Pancreatitis and also PLE. I got a hunch, so I started searching for a natural alternative to all of the prescription drugs and expensive visits, he recommended. I looked up Apple Cider Vinegar for Pancreatitis. Lo and behold, someone said they used it and within 30mins their pain and symptoms stopped. I had some ACV pills from Big Lots ($3), so I cut one in half and coated it with Hemp Oil. I gave it to her last nite and just like the guy said, within 20mins she was sprawled out on the couch, snoring away. She didn’t have to get up in the middle of the nite with diarrhea and this a.m. her poop was still soft, but formed–almost normal!! I also have been soaking her (for 15mins, 2x a day) in a large Tupperware, with Magnesium Oil flakes dissolved in really warm water and a few drops of Lavender, to replace the Magnesium she lost and put her back in balance. I am planning on cancelling the test on Thurs. I’m a little perturbed that I spent so much money, but at least I know she doesn’t have Cushing’s, Addison’s, Diabetes or anything like that. I am planning on cancelling the appt on Thurs. Hope this can help others, who are at wit’s end and their poor suffering doggies.
- This reply was modified 2 months ago by Debra K. Reason: Added the $$ amount of test my vet wants to do
I posted about my dog last year, I didn’t not mention that we were on our third round of some type of auto immune disease/PLE/Lymphangeictasia, I only mentioned 2 rounds. He started at age 4 and he is now age 9. I wrote that last year we decided to take him off meds, he is still on Metronidazole twice/day but that’s it. We also give him a B-12 shot once/month. The next day his stools are good. His vet from Tufts said he would die within days or weeks. That was almost 1 year ago and he’s still doing well. I mostly feed him boiled chicken breast and rice (not instant if possible) with steamed veggies (I steam and puree veggies before mixing with the rice). I also cook up some beef or chicken liver and add that to the rice mixture. We used to use a GNC supplement but that appears to have been discontinued it was awesome! His stools have softened over the last few months since that product was discontinued so I’m experimenting again with enzymes and supplements but haven’t found anything great yet, but sometimes his stools are loose and sometimes they are pretty good, they have shape. I supplement a little in the morning with added Hydrolized protein dry food because it has some vitamins and texture that he likes. However, it seems that the more kibble he gets, the looser the stools are the next day. If I kept him on pure chicken, rice, liver and pumpkin he’d probably have better stools. I am home so I try to feed him 3 smaller meals/day, lunch is canned Salmon/mackerel. Maybe go real simple for a few days. Good luck!
Caroline, I’m not a vet and I’m only talking to you based on my own experience, maybe just try some boiled chicken breast and rice for a few days see what happens.Julie BParticipant
Hi – I have a Jack Russel that is 8.5 year old. He was in the hospital with pancreatitis back before Easter – the vet said at the time he had elevated liver enzymes which was secondary to the pancreatitis. We brought him hone after 5 days in the hospital only to bring him back with more complications. This time he had water in his belly. We agreed to a liver biopsy which was done last week. Just before the biopsy cooper started filling up with fluid. The liver biopsy showed some hepatitis but not enough to be causing the water buildup in his belly. The Vet concluded that the cause is protein losing enteropathy is caused by issues in the GI Tract so he upped the prednisone medication. I asked about diet and he told me that while changes could be helpful it will not cure him. We move have more fluid in his belly and are watching to see if it goes down. What can we do????Debra KParticipant
One of my Toy Poodles (13yrs old) after $1000 of tests, was recently diagnosed with Pancreatitis and PLE. I don’t know if the vet even knew what he was talking about, because I took her to an Urgent Care vet at the local Vet Specialty Hospital (when the idiot didn’t prescribe anything, just wanted to do another $700 worth of testing), the vet there said her symptoms didn’t match his diagnosis. She was given fluids and a probiotic Visbiome. I wonder if maybe the fact that I had been soaking her in Magnesium Oil Flakes and Lavender Oil, twice a day and rubbing her tummy with Hemp Seed Oil, had helped? I am also giving her Slippery Elm, twice a day and chicken quarters, first cooked in a crock pot, then boiled with spices and chicken bouillion for a hour and a half, then drained. I am also mashing up small chunks of beef liver, in with the chicken and giving her B12 fortified Brewer’s Yeast., Vit E and COQ10. She is doing so much better now, 2wks later. Almost back to normal. No more diarrhea, her stools are soft, but formed and no vomiting at all.
I have read that Pancreatitis can cause low Magnesium and can contribute to Diabetes, it is also very relaxing and helps with pain, along with the Hemp Oil. Magnesium Oil, is the best way to absorb it, thru the skin and it’s helping my arthritic fingers, as I give her a massage while she’s soaking–for about 10mins. I am also giving her an Apple Cider Vinegar tablet, which is considered to be a prebiotic (the first vet acted like I was a lunatic, for doing so) and she has been improving ever since. I have an appt to go see an internist at the Specialty Hosp., but it’s not for another 2mos.
I have read on homeopathic vet websites, that regular vets are only given about 1week of nutrition training, during their 4yr course and it’s all paid for, by major pet food companies. It was also stated, that they only know how to react to situations, not prevent them in the first place and prescribe drugs, that only treat the symptoms not the cause.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.