Starting Raw

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  • #150442 Report Abuse
    Daniel B
    Participant

    Hello All,
    I’m interested in starting raw feeding my 45 pound, 2 year old, neutered, mid activity, healthy golden doodle.

    My desire is to make about 2 weeks’ worth of meals for him at one time and then vacuum seal them in bags and freeze them.

    I’d like to have chicken (bones, skin, organs, and fat), boiled sweet potatoes and carrots, human grade fish oil and sunflower oil, and a couple of eggs with the shell. Lastly I’d like to add a bit of seaweed and flaxseed all ground up and vacuum sealed for easy storage.

    From my research it seems like all of these ingredients together should provide a very healthy daily meal for my best buddy.

    The place I’m running into issues is how much of each of these ingredients I should do for a healthy daily meal. Can anyone give me some pointers or a place to go for more help?

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
    -Daniel

    #150443 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    Please speak to a veterinary healthcare professional (not on the internet) preferably a vet that has examined your dog and knows it’s history before going down this dangerous path.
    I hope these articles help you or someone else.
    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet

    #150444 Report Abuse
    Nadia K
    Member

    Daniel,
    There are many great video’s on youtube on raw feeding. Also, if you are on Facebook, there are raw feeding groups there as well. Here is a site with tons of great information: http://www.dogaware.com

    #150459 Report Abuse
    Jerry R
    Member

    The vast majority of vets have little to no experience in pet nutrition. The little they do have is what kibble companies that pay for their education tell them. This is no BS either.
    Science diet is a major contributor to their education which clearly explains how such a poor dog food can be #1 vet recomended.
    Don’t let people like anonymous contribute to these myths about raw feeding and meaty bones.
    Vets are counting on exactly that because feeding raw significantly cuts into their livlihood in greatly reduced vet visits for health issues from allergies to arthritis.
    My 18 month old red longhaired dachshund recently got an A++ clean bill of health from his dr. after a brief exam while getting his rabies booster giving mention to his very healthy skin and coat and unusually clean, white chompers not normally seen in his breed.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Jerry R.
    #150466 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    I hope this article is helpful to readers. It’s a few years old but still just as accurate, there are more recent Nutrition articles at this site, just use the search engine
    Click on link to read comments
    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2012/07/what-do-veterinarians-know-about-nutrition/

    What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?
    Posted on July 8, 2012 by skeptvet
    It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies.
    Most veterinarians do have at least a semester course on nutrition in general. And a lot more information on the subject is scattered throughout other courses in vet school. So the idea that we know nothing about the subject is simply ridiculous. However, it is fair to acknowledge that most veterinarians are not “experts” in nutrition, if by this one means they have extensive specialized training in the subject. The real “experts” in this area are board-certified veterinary nutritionists, individuals who have advanced residency training in nutrition and have passed the board certification exam of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition.
    Of course, as I always take great care to point out, expertise is no guarantee of never falling into error, particularly expertise based primarily on experience and a familiarity with the opinions of other experts rather than solid scientific research. Given the limited research data available on many important questions in small animal nutrition, even the real experts are often forced to rely on extrapolation from basic science or research in humans and their own clinical experience, which are important sources of information but always less reliable than studies specifically designed to answer these questions. Nevertheless, boarded nutritionists have a legitimate claim to expert status in this area. And as a group, they generally are skeptical of many of the alternative approaches to nutrition, as they should be give the paucity of data to support them As for the question of the role of the pet food industry in veterinary nutrition education, there is some truth to the claim that much of that education is sponsored by companies who make pet foods. Obviously, most veterinary nutritionists put their training to work researching and evaluating food for veterinary species, so the money and expertise in this area tends to concentrate in industry. And it is not entirely unreasonable to ask the question whether or not this influences the information veterinarians get about nutrition. It quite likely does.
    This is not the same thing as saying that veterinarians are all lackeys or dupes of industry and unable to think critically for themselves, however. I am generally as skeptical and critical of pharmaceutical companies and mainstream pet food companies as I am of herb and supplement manufacturers and producers of alternative diets. All of them have both a genuine belief (most of the time) in their products, a genuine interest in the welfare of the animals they serve, and a high risk of bias and cognitive dissonance that impedes their ability to see and accept the flaws in their own reasoning or the data that contradicts their beliefs.
    One should always be aware of bias, but that awareness does not justify ignoring the arguments or evidence coming from a source with potential bias, only evaluating it carefully and critically. The reason science is so much more successful than unaided reasoning is precisely because it is a method for compensating for human biases and other cognitive limitations that interfere with our seeing the truth. Mainstream pet food companies undoubtedly have biases, but often they also have good scientific data, which is rarely available for the alternative products and approaches. Ignoring this data in favor of opinion, theory, or personal experience is not a recipe for improving the state of veterinary nutrition.
    The real issue is not so much what do general practice veterinarians know about nutrition as what is the evidence supporting the alternative theories and products being promoted? The accusation that vets know little about nutrition, even if it were true, doesn’t invalidate their criticisms. The classis ad hominem fallacy is the strategy of attacking a person and imaging that somehow this attack says anything about that person’s argument. It is the mirror image, in many ways, of the appeal to authority fallacy, which involves claiming some special wisdom or expertise on the part of a person making an argument and then imaging that claim somehow proves the argument. If proponents of raw diets or other unconventional nutritional approaches wish to make a case for their ideas, they have to do it based on logic and facts, not on the presumed expertise of supporters or the supposed ignorance of critics. As always, it is the ideas and the data that matter, not the people involved.
    That said, there is a certain hypocrisy to many of these criticisms in that they come from sources with no particular right to claim expertise in nutrition anyway. Proponents of alternative nutritional practices are almost never boarded veterinary nutritionists. Often they are lay people who have labeled themselves as experts without even the training general practice veterinarians have in nutritional science. And while they may not be influenced by the mainstream pet food industry, this only means they are less subject to that particular bias, not that they don’t have other biases. People selling pet food or books on veterinary nutrition are all too often blind to the hypocrisy of claiming their opponents are under the influence of pet food companies while ignoring the fact that they make money selling their own ideas or products.
    Others who frequently claim most veterinarians know little about nutrition are themselves general practice veterinarians or specialists in some aspect of veterinary medicine other than nutrition. It may very well be true that they are well-informed about nutrition because they have an interest in it, but this is not evidence that their arguments are true and those of their opponents are false. It is not even evidence that they know more about nutrition than their detractors, who may themselves have studied independently in the area. If you’re not a boarded nutritionist, you can’t claim to be an expert. And whether or not you are an expert, your ideas must stand or fall on their merits and the evidence, not on any presumed superiority in your knowledge over that of your critics.
    So I think it is fair to say that most general practice veterinarians have only a fairly general knowledge of veterinary nutrition. And it is fair to acknowledge that much of this information comes from a source with a significant risk of bias, that is the pet food industry. However, I see no evidence that proponents of alternative approaches to nutrition have a reason to claim they know more about nutrition than most veterinarians, or that they are free from biases of their own. Only boarded veterinary nutritionists can legitimately claim to be “experts,” and even this is no guarantee of perfect objectivity or the truth of everything they believe. Claims about who is or is not smart or informed enough to have an opinion on a subject are mostly a superficial distraction from the important elements of any debate, what are the arguments and data behind each position. Awareness of potential bias only serves to make one more careful and cautious in examining someone’s arguments and data, it doesn’t get one a free pass to ignore what they have to say.

    #150469 Report Abuse
    Nadia K
    Member

    Jerry R totally agree with your assessment.

    #150581 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    Hope this article helps someone.

    From SkeptVet TV- Raw Diets for Pets
    Posted on December 6, 2019 by skeptvet

    http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2019/12/from-skeptvet-tv-raw-diets-for-pets/

    #150640 Report Abuse
    Jerry R
    Member

    You continue to post links from vets. Vets are not educated in pet nutrition! If they were they wouldn’t recommend science diet for gawd sakes! That stuff is crap! Read the label!

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