[weezerweeks]

I have a yorkie and he loves to eat. I did have him on kibble but I have discovered that canned is better so now he’s on just canned with supplements. Yorkies are usually small and don’t eat much if they like canned and freeze dried why do u want them on kibble?

[Shasta220]

It seems like I have heard around here that allergy tests are usually very inaccurate. You can take the same dog in for a test three different times and have each result differ. I’d try an elimination diet for a while, using these suspect foods (usually done by a home made simple diet and adding one suspect allergen at a time to see if a reaction occurs).

It’ll take a while for an elimination diet, but that’s about the only way you can tell for sure.

I don’t know too many foods’ ingredient lists. Seems like Victor uses Sorghoum instead of rice/barley as the carb source. I know a home made/raw diet is tricky to do, but it might be easier if you could possibly grind the meat/supplements and portion out daily meals in the freezer? Then when you take her to the pet sitter, you can just give her a container. This might be a possibility at least until you could find a food that works well 🙂

Also agree with aquariangt, there will probably be no easily accessible kibble that avoids all those ingredients (assuming that she really /does/ react to them all), so canned may be a better option since it’s much easier to avoid problem ingredients.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shasta220.

[jakes mom]

Not ready, even close, to going all raw so I want to keep feeding the kibble to make sure all the bases are covered as far as nutrition. Don’t want to get involved in adding all kinds of supplements, etc. I’m thinking of the raw as healthy treats, not meals, at this point. I am in awe of the knowledge on the raw food forum!

[pugmomsandy]

I like to use different products. Right now I’m using Springtime supplements but I have Actiflex 4000 (horse version) and cetyl myristoleate and krill oil to use in rotation. You can give supplements all year that maintain joint health. For increased activity, you can also give the supplements that have an increased amount of anti-inflammatories/herbals that also help relieve pain/discomfort. Since she already eats some raw food, you can let her have a chicken foot or some raw trachea a couple times a week for the cartilage to maintain joint health.

This Actiflex 4000 dosing came from a raw feeding group: 50-75 pounds: 1 ½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days, ¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose

[Ysabella J]

Hello all!

I have followed this forum for some time now but this is my first official post! Yay! Okay, so I am trying to do some research on Joint Supplements and Omega 3 fatty acids to give my 2 year old Golden Retriever (almost 3 on May 25th). We have her on a wonderful diet that consists of Orijen kibble and Merrick canned food for breakfast, a raw meaty marrow bone or a stuffed kong for a snack and a raw Stella & Chewy’s patty for dinner. Her diet does wonders for her health and we learned much about it from this website. As she gets older, I would like to put her on joint supplement. I notice from time to time her joints will pop when she gets up or stretches. We do live in an area that has all 4 seasons and in the winters it gets well below zero. Now that it is springtime we really enjoy taking her out for very long, extensive hikes. She loves to run and swim during our hikes and I would like to have her on some type of anti-inflammatory (omega-3’s?) and a joint supplement. Now I have been doing a ton of research but that just creates a million questions:

First and foremost – Should we give her joint supplements/anti-inflammatories year round? Or do we only give them on days when she will be more active than normal?

Secondly – Which joint/anti-inflammatory would you recommend? I have done research and am seriously considering the Wholistic Pet Organics product line. Has anyone used this and would they recommend it? http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/joint-support.html/ Also, does anyone give their pet krill oil vs. salmon oil for omega 3’s?

Thirdly – I am a big fan of holistic medicine and don’t usually like big brand dog medication distributors. Is there anything we can do for her joints, besides swimming and keeping her lean, that will help without any supplement?

And last but not least – if you do recommend a supplement and it’s human grade, what dosage would I give my 65 pound girl?

Thanks so much in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate it!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ysabella J.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ysabella J.

[Naturella]

Gotcha. I will feed my dogs the same too one day unless the next one has any specific issues. I just looked at Farmina and really like their GF fish and lamb formulas – I am sad that the wild boar one has chicken as a supplement – you know, in case a dog is allergic to chicken, they can’t have the wild boar either. But anyway – that one is kind of expensive, so I will feed it one day when I can afford it, lol.

And great job on the supplements! Bruno gets just about the same too, and he loves his veggies too!

You could maybe check out Victor – locally, I find the 40-lb bags of grain-inclusive for $38.99 – so, about $1/lb when you apply tax and stuff. And it’s a decent food. Online it seems to be more than $1/lb though, which is odd, but oh well. I am lucky to live close to 2 pet boutiques, and Petland, Petco, and Petsmart, AND Costco are all within 15min of me… The pet boutiques have better deals on sales though, it seems. I may ask them to see if they can get me the Farmina for less… I will look for a coupon for it too! 😀

[Dori]

Hi Aleksandra. I’m in the Vinings area of Atlanta. My dogs have been on Sentinel for years and years. I’ve never had an issue with Sentinel or I guess I should say none of the dogs have ever had issues with Sentinel. Dogs that have since passed from old age, etc were on Sentinel also. Just remember all dogs react differently to meds, supplements just as they do to different foods. One thing I would advise is to not give Sentinel the same week that your dog gets his vaccinations. Give Sentinel either a week before or after his yearly vaccines. In Bruno’s case if he were my dog I would have vet give him his vaccinations this year and if you want to do titers testing next year you can if you want to. Just remember that titer testing cannot tell you how much immunity he has to any given illness. With his vaccines, if you wish, you can space his rabies and the others a week apart so he’s not being assaulted with all the vaccines at once.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[KPC]

Hello, all!

I recently aquired a pup (Kaiser) & am feeding 4Health puppy formula. My adult dog (Jinx) is on the 4Health Salmon & Potato currently.

I was wondering if there was a distinct advantage of feeding formulated for puppies food over adult, or all stages. The caloric count is about 20 higher on the pup formula. I entered all the ingredients into a spreadsheet & there was only one notable difference (besides the different meat products) which was Chondroitin Sulfate, for joint support apparently.

So, the question is, should I keep feeding puppy formula or perhaps add supplements or vitamins to an adult formula for him?

(His mother is 50lbs, father unknown; just for a size/growth reference)

Thanks, all!

[Steve K]

HDM
What do you think about glucosamine and chondroitin supplements for a giant breed puppy?

[Susan]

You said that ur dogs itch none stop, you must start with an elimination diet, I started one about 1 month ago as my boy has Pancreatitis & enviornment allergies we dont know if he has food allergies that’s why I’d say the vet suggested an elimination diet, The vet said the first month just feed boil chicken but I knew my boy could eat boil chicken so I added cooked pumkin, then when I saw he wasnt scratching or rubbing his tummy on my beautiful white rug the next week I added sweet potato within 2 days Patch was rubbing on my carpet so I stopped the sweet potato & know he cant have sweet potato or a kibble with sweet potato…. then I added pasta another NO it made him itch then I read dogs with skin problems like yeast & bacteria shouldnt eat carbohydrates, potatos, sweet potatos etc, then I added half a boiled egg & he’s been good, Im thinking of adding broccoli next.. Im reading Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson PhD she has help me understand alot of things & this group its a easy book to read & very easy recipes, she explains what foods aren’t good & what foods are good for certain illness, like Skin problems & what causes ur dog to itch, Pancreatitis Diabetes, Gastro problems, feeding senior dogs, getting a pup onto raw etc, she has cooked recipes & what supplements to add.. in the elimination diet you cannot give any treats nothing, just that one food for 2 weeks then 2 foods so on.. you must cook all vegetables so they are fully cooked, she even suggest to pulped vegetables as dogs digestive system weren’t meant to eat vegies, here’s one of her recipes for Skin allergies a Low Glycemic regular fats Diet..this is for a 50 pound dog to be divide into two or more smaller meals per day.
8 ounces 1 cup regular fat ground beef
2 ounces 1/4 cup beef liver or kidney
2 eggs scrambled or boiled
4 ounces 1/2 cup steamed or boiled broccoli
4 ounces 1/2 cup cooked yellow crookneck squash
4 ounces 1/2 cup whole milk yogurt
Serve meat cooked or raw combined with cooked vegetables eggs & yogurt if serving meat cooked wait until meat & eggs have cooled before stirring in the yogurt…..
What I do is I cook once a fornight & freeze everything except the egg then put in fridge the night before to thaw for next day…

[Bunny B]

Carl L – I also have used Hilary’s Complete and Balanced

I have a high energy 2 year old dog and she burns lots of calories. I found I had to feed WAY more than the recommended amount than what Hilary says in her book. The supplements were $79 CDN for the big bottle and lasted me about 1 1/2 mo. It was costing me $16 a day and 3 hrs a night in the kitchen. I chose to do this anyhow because I have heard the benefits of real food for a dog and had seen the results on other peoples dogs. I did this for 5 months when I couldn’t stand the time and money anymore! I still strongly believe in real food, and that the real food has to be complete and balanced. Then I happened across NRG dehydrated food. This was the next best thing to home cooked. It cost me about $10 a day. And only 1 min in the kitchen!! She did fabulously on this for 7 months. Then she developed what I a, convinced of an allergy to grain so I put her on Natures Variety raw frozen. Which I just love, all the benefits of real food all ready made for me!

But now I am spending about $14 a day with Natures Variety and was thinking I should go back to Hilary’s…although I am a raw believer now on certain meats, but she says lots of her recipes (specific ones) can be fed raw. I happened across your post tonight out of coincidence!

I have to say Hilary’s seems to be great but I do NOT recommend her recipes that contain tomatoes or tomato sauce if your dog has a sensitive stomach or is susceptible to acid reflux. And if you are trying to find Safflower oil you may have to go to a health food store, it should be next to the olive oil. Alternately if you can’t find that I called and she actually picked up the phone which I thought was weird but she said you can use sunflower oil. And I find it hard finding cod liver oil, again I found this in a health food store. And the easiest way to pulse veggies is in a magic bullet btw.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Bunny B.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Bunny B.

[LexiDog]

She’s a 37 pound lab mix. We did the DNA test and it said that she has stafford shire terrier and rat terrier too but is probably at least 70% lab. She is black with a little bit of white with short fine hair. She is 2 years old.

I know Primal has a Turkey & Sardine formula I could try and increase the amount of coconut oil a little.

Someone said that they give their dogs the brewers yeast tabs…Would that help with her coat? I don’t know.. I’m not really into giving her too many supplements and what not.

[theBCnut]

Hi jakes mom

You freeze things that might have parasites, They are killed by freezing. Bacteria are not. I always freeze pork, wild game, and fish.

Hi Bobby dog

Other than shooting for an approximation of a whole animal, the thing to remember with cats is their need for taurine in their diet. Taurine is water soluable, so when you freeze meat then defrost it, it is important for the cat to get the fluids that seperate out, because it may have taurine in it. Hare Today has a supplement to add to meat and bone, but I always buy whole prey grinds for my cats, because they don’t like the supplements. I also tried Darwin’s cat food, but mine didn’t like the texture.

[[email protected]]

Hi Wanda,
After almost a year I have helped Jasmine with a hypoallergenic diet (Royal Canin Potato/Venison. One of the causes can be a food allergy, and it turned out to be chicken which is in a lot of dogfoods. She LOVES the food and it is possible that is an issue with your dog, but I only found out by starting a novel diet which she never had. She is still on metrodonizol and Ursodial but doing very wedll on the combo. I found that probiotics and most supplements were contrary to her disease. I also believe she is allergic to fish so fish oil also throws her off. I can almot guarantee he will love the food!
Best wishes,

Karen

[CattleCait]

Background info: I have two dogs, Jessie (6yo, F, ACD) and Gus (9yo, M, ACD x Beagle). Both were adult rescues, Jess has shown many symptoms of canine PTSD, several of which have waned over the past year that I’ve had her.

I recently picked up extra shifts at work, which seems to be taking a toll on Jessie emotionally. Usually these shifts only consist of 4-5 hours, but I have been working more doubles which means I’m gone from 10am-7:30pm. During the day Gus and Jess are either in their outdoor dog run (very large) with a dog house and a few toys. If the weather is bad, they stay inside and upstairs because I am living at home (college) and my mother sells baked goods, so the dogs can’t be near the food we sell. My siblings are home in the afternoons, and my sister lets them out and plays a bit with them when she gets home from school.

Jess has gone off of her feed – she gets Nature’s Logic for breakfast and dinner and a raw chicken neck with her dinner. Lately she’s been refusing her kibble and eats only the necks. She has also gained a lot of weight, which leads me to believe she’s been much less active during the day than usual. When I get home, we used to play wrestle a bit, but she doesn’t want to do that anymore either. She won’t play with Gus either, so now he’s just a ball of wired up energy when I get home.

Any suggestions as to how I can help her feel better? I can’t drop hours at work or she’ll have to start hunting for her own food. I have a couple of puzzle toys for her, one of which I leave out during the day because it doesn’t have any loose pieces, but she quit playing with it. I’ve been thinking of getting some stuffable Kong-like toys. Any ideas? Herbal supplements? Games or exercises?

[crazy4cats]

I have never dealt with that issue as my current and past dogs will eat anything at anytime! I hesitate to make any suggestions due to your pup’s health conditions. I’m not sure if you have checked this out, but on the review side of this site, there is a list of excellent low fat foods. Just click on best dog foods and it will bring up different categories of foods, including low fat. It is my understanding that with diabetes, that kibble is not the best form of food to feed. Canned, dehydrated, cooked or raw is best. I hope someone that can help will jump in. But, I’m not sure that anyone can predict which food your dog will like and for how long. LOL! I feed my dogs with digestive issues Victor grain free mixed with canned, eggs, or sardines or fresh pet select. I also give a digestive and probiotic supplements. I hope you find something that makes your pup better. Good luck!

[pugmomsandy]

Just because a dog is “senior” doesn’t mean it has these problems. All those problems can potentially happen at any age. I’ve fostered many dogs under 5 (even as young as 1 yr) with joint/eye/digestion/ear issues and have needed hip/knee surgeries and prescription eye and ear drops. A healthy senior can eat regular food (adult, maintenance and all life stages, puppy food). I have a 14 yr old with no active health issues. He is blind and deaf which he was already when I got him last year at 13. He is not on any medications and eats the same foods as all the other foster dogs I have. I use 3.5-4.5 star kibble and top it off with 5 star canned foods which is normally at least 43% protein. He even gets some raw food which I usually make without any plant matter. The dogs get joint supplements and vitamins, antioxidants, supergreen supplements and fish oil. My personal dogs don’t get chemical pesticides which has been linked to some cancers nor do they get unnecessary vaccines. You might want to research “over vaccination”. Try looking up Dogs4dogs dot com, b-naturals dot com, wholedogjournal dot com, dogsnaturallymagazine dot com. These are just a few of the sites pertaining to more “natural” care of dogs. If one of my dogs had late stage kidney disease, at that point I would change the diet, but I wouldn’t change the diet just because they’re a senior in general. Some things possibly connected to cancer is chemical laden commercial kibble, vaccines, the constant application of poisonous pesticides (heartworm and flea/tick meds, fertilizers), even air pollution.

http://dogs4dogs.com/

[Cotons mom]

what is a good source to find out about milk thistle, SAMe and other supplements?

[Shawna]

You and I remember that conversation slightly differently aimee..

My entire “initial” comment was
“I imagine they would have to eat a lot of thyroids to overdose on iodine that way.? Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.

I don’t think even one of the raw diets I feed contains any thyroid (or gullet). The supplements I use do but not the foods.” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204301377

Shortly after I posted (this is only a portion of the post)
“Dr. Dodds actually does have an article regarding this study..

“Dr. Peterson’s “Bottom Line”:
In man, community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis,” resulting from inadvertent consumption of ground beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland, have been previously reported (3,4). These outbreaks resulted in the banning of “gullet trimming,” in which meat in the neck region of slaughtered animals is ground into hamburger……

…..In the dogs of this report, it is obvious that the correct balance was not maintained and a very large amount of raw thyroid gland tissue ended up in their raw meat diet. As is the case with the exogenous L-T4, these natural thyroid hormones are not destroyed by gastric acid and can then be absorbed, leading to high concentration of circulating T4
and clinical sign of hyperthyroidism.” http://drjeandoddspethealthres…” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204382360

[Susan]

Just found the page Lew olson says, much of the time the problem can be tracted back to carbohydrates, When dogs digest grains, reserves of important bacteria in ur dogs intestines become depleted, causing essential vitamins like vitamin B & K to be passed with the faces, When a dogs eats another dogs stool he may be trying to get back the bacteria & enzymes that are missing in his diet…Carbohydrates are more difficult to digest & may pass thru the dogs system only partially digested this may also make stools more tempting to ur dog. ..So what can u do? add digestive enzyems, beneficical bacteria & a B complex vitamin to the dogs diet may help curb his drive to eat stools, Reducing or eliminating carbs can also produce smaller less “appetizing” stools in which the food is more completely digested. A diet of raw meat & bones on the other hand, produces smaller, drier, & less smelly stools.The fewer grains ur dog eats the more benficial enzymes & bacteria remain avialable to ensure stools are well-formed & almost odorless. Unripe Pineapple & papayas are rich in the enzyems ur dog needs to break down proteins, & the bromelain in pineapple can also help with inflammation & the uptake of other supplements.
If ur dog is on a grain free kibble it may have potatoes which are carbohydrates…. This book ‘Raw & Nutual Nutrition for dogs’ is an excellent read Im learning so much, explaining heaps of health problems & what to feed ur dog.. good easy recipes Raw or cooked..

[InkedMarie]

Dori,
We aren’t sure. He started with ear infections, again, a year ago. We honestly have no idea what started them back up, after being free of them for almost seven years. I didn’t want him on raw again, simply due to money but after being fine on NB lid sweet potato & fish, he got another one. My holistic vet suggested stopping all supplements & said since his ear infections were yeast, she worried about fruits & veggies (sugar can feed yeast). So, back to ground raw for him.

[Dori]

Nectarmom. James gave me quite a bit of his time. Never actually suggested I started ordering and actually wants me to show all the info to Hannah’s vet and get her ok before ordering anything. He also gave me the names of three holistic vets and suggested I make appt. for Hannah with holistic vet and get their opinion, again, before deciding what food and supplements to use. No, I would never simply call a food company rep. and take their word for their product and then order it. But, thanks for your advice.

Marie. As always, thank you. What kind of issues does Boone have with fruits/veggies? Is it both fruits and veggies or either or? What type of allergic issues? Don’t you just wish they could speak and tell us what their feeling? Somebody needs to work on that!! LOL! If only!

[Dori]

Caroline. Thank you so much for posting. Good luck on Saturday when you re-test. I’ll be praying for you and your dog. I’m also praying that it was some supplement, or too many different supplements that have taxed or toxed her liver. Anyway I’m trying to cover the basis and, thank God, though Hannah’s vet is not a holistic vet, she seems to be taking the same steps that Dr. Becker and other’s that I’ve been researching since I found out the results on Monday. Just Monday?? It seems like longer than that. Anyway, more testing tomorrow and I’m hoping like your dog, after a month or so leaving any and all supplements out that except for the milk thistle and the Denamarin that things will get back to normal levels. If it’s not something worse than I can only assume it’s a supplement or too many that I’ve given. I have an auto immune illness and tons of allergies myself since about 1997 everything is fragrance free and dye free in my home. No candles burning, no fragrance sprays for bathrooms, nothing at all. Backyard has no lawn, all flower beds, so no week killers or anything like that.

Funny that you should mention Darwin’s prescription diet. I spoke with James at Darwin’s this afternoon for quite a while about Hannah and what’s going on. I’ve printed out all the forms, nutritional analysis, etc. on the LS diet. He’s given me his direct line to give to Hannah’s vet and also said he’d gladly send the vet some samples if she wants to see the food herself. I told James I will not put her on any food the vet sells, Hills, SD, Royal Canin, whatever. Not after all the good she has derived from her present diet. I refuse to put her on crap diets for the remainder of her life regardless of how long or short it may be. Anyhow, he was so great and made me feel so much better. I have really been a totally wreck since Monday morning when the vet called with Hannah’s liver levels skyrocketing and out of control. After my conversation with him it was the first time all week that I felt like I could take a deep breath and actually breathe.

Oh, and more great news. He gave me the name and phone numbers of three holistic/integral vets that he knew personally and from different conferences in my area. So it was a win win conversation.

Thanks again for your post. I don’t feel quite so alone. I’ll be thinking of you on Saturday and will post everyone along the way about Hannah and next testing of x-ray and ultra sound and Cushing’s test.

Everyone here has been keeping me a little saner and a lot less weepy. Thanks everyone from the bottom of my heart I love you all.

[Shawna]

Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.

The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.

She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.

If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.

You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.

Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.

[Aleksandra S]

I have a mini St. Bernard (cocker spaniel/St. Bernard mix, 5th generation). She is 8 months old and I am feeding her Royal Canin Medium Puppy Chiot, with Science Diet puppy canned food 1/2 half a day. She has developed a limp over past 2 months. We just got radiologist’s reading and they think that it could be fragmented coronoid process with arthritis. I don’t know what her therapy will be yet, but I think it’s too early for her to have arthritis. I want to switch her to gluten free food and I am considering your current number 1 – grain free Annamaet. Is it appropriate for a puppy? Any wet food combo you would recommend? Any supplements?
Thank you!

[Dori]

Hi Deborah H. and welcome. If you are all things dog obsessed than boy have you come to the right place. I’ve got three little ones and they are my babies. One has lots of issues, the one has none other than being totally obsessed with playing fetch, and my older girl I’m just yesterday and today dealing with liver issues (14 1/2 year old Maltese). Waiting for results of tests done this morning. Your question on THK. Yes it was on March 2014 list and it’s not on April 2014 list. We don’t know why it was taken off. A few of us have been discussing this and we are waiting for some feed back from Dr. Mike or HDM.

I’m glad you’re thinking about incorporating a raw diet or at least freeze dried diet for one of their daily meals. There are some home cooked raw feeders here on this site and I’m sure they’ll chime in and steer you in the right direction if home cooking is what you’d like to do. NO, you do not have to stop getting doggie kisses because you feed raw. Just make sure that YOU wash your hands, counter and anything else that touched the raw food thoroughly. Just as you would do when doing your own cooking for you and your family with raw meats and fishes. The more you incorporate and rotate raw and freeze dried foods in your dogs diets the healthier they will become. A healthy dog is more able to deal with minor issues in foods than one with an unhealthy gut. It’s the humans that have to be really careful with foods containing Salmonella and such more so than a healthy dog. You’ll be amazed at the changes that take place when you incorporate raw to their diets. Changes that you didn’t even know weren’t as they should be.

Welcome to our obsessed world. I’m about as obsessed a person can be about my girls, short of being locked up in some institution some where. Even then, they’d have to let me take my dogs, get me a freezer, their supplements, their beds, their toys, all their grooming supplies, shampoos, their special stainless steel bowls, etc. I think you get a picture of me now! SO SO TOTALLY OBSESSED AM I! AND I LOVE IT! It’s the only way to be. In my world, anyway!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[theBCnut]

High protein does not cause liver problems or high liver levels, but after there is already a liver problem, the liver has a harder time dealing with as much protein. The high levels could be from something else, they could be a temporary increase due to some insult to her liver, like a toxic exposure, they could be because of some other disease process all together. You just can’t know yet. You may have to start adding carbs to her diet to reduce the protein levels, but you may need to do nothing at all, you just don’t know yet. If it turns out that she really is having liver issues, have your vet get you a recipe for a homemade diet for her. It will still be way better than anything you could buy.

She is much more likely to have come in contact with something on walks or whatever like that, than for the supplements that you gave her to have caused a problem. Unfortunately, this could be age, it could be longterm exposure to heartworm prevention, it could be from pesticides, even ones your neighbors used years ago, you may never know and liver problems can literally take a lifetime to pop up.

And yes, I do mean that most vets just feel, look, and listen to dogs at their yearly and never run blood work until there is already a known problem, so they never have normals to compare to.

Dori, at 14 1/2 years old, you would never want to treat her for heartworms and she would never have enough of them to have a serious case, so the first thing I would do would be to never give her another dose. BTW, when was her last dose in relation to when she had the blood work done? That alone could explain the elevated levels.

[Dori]

Thanks so much Nectarmom. Very helpful to hear your story. I’m thinking, hoping anyway, that some of the supplements that I have been adding to her meals that are really high in protein also have contributed to this crazy level. She doesn’t act sick, or anything. She has been drinking more water. With multiple dogs in the house and changing water two times a day I wasn’t picking up that it was her drinking most of the water. I’ve been watching her lick a hawk today and she’s drinking way more water than she’s been drinking for a while. Just like when she was on kibble. On kibble she could go though an entire big bowl of water all by herself.

My dogs only get rabies vaccine and I left the vets office so happy Friday with Hannah because since we moved to a different county since her last visit, rabies vaccine is only required every 3 years. Funny thing is I’m literally across the county line. I did ask the vet if the three year and the one year vaccines were different. She told me they are the exact same one it’s just that different municipalities have different rules. So so stupid to make you vaccinate every year when it’s the same damn one for three years.

[Dori]

Ok Patty. So your basically telling me to calm down and wait and I could be freaking out thinking there’s nothing that will be able to help but that in actuality if it is the liver then there will be some things I can do to reverse the situation? Damn, sorry Patty, I now realize I am babbling. I’ve been checking the protein levels of all the raws that I feed and, of course, they are much higher than kibble but I don’t want to put her on kibble. I also took a look at protein levels for the Nzymes and I’ve had her on two other supplements that I had forgotten about from Ark Naturals Grey Muzzle line. One for cognitive and one for heart health. I just thought since she was older she might need some heart health and, also, due to her age I couldn’t really tell whether she sometimes seemed a little more out of things because of losing some hearing to old age or cognitive skills were being affected due to age. Everything has added protein. Could all that contribute to high liver levels. I should have left well enough alone and just fed her the raw with her glucosamine and not added other stuff. I have been giving them all milk thistle but since it comes in capsules I was dividing one capsule among the three dogs. Should I have been giving each one capsule? It just looked like so much. I should have posted that question. I know we all talked about milk thistle when losul’s Turbo was diagnosed with HW but I don’t think it was ever discussed as to how much or I just missed that part. I’m kicking myself right now thinking of all the things I may have done wrong. Like I said, other than hypothyroid Hannah has never ever had any health issues.

What do you mean it’s rare for vets to do yearly bloodwork? If they don’t then what’s the point of the yearly physical? Why would I take them then? I could look and feel them as well, actually, better than she can? Hmmmm? I should have insisted on a 6 month bloodwork instead of yearly. I read something about that somewhere that when dogs get older they should go every six months instead of yearly but she didn’t think it was necessary in the least because Hannah’s always been so healthy. And here I go rambling and babbling.

[jakes mom]

Hi All, I am finding this raw food forum so interesting, just read it thru from beginning to end! I’m not ready to feed raw yet, actually got started on DFA to check the rating for my dog’s kibble. However, I’m wondering about adding some raw to Jake’s diet. He’s a beagle mix, 30ish pounds, 9 years old, good health. Can I just throw a chicken liver or 2 in with his kibble? Give him a wing or back as a treat? A chunk of stew beef now and then? Can he have a chicken thigh for dinner in place of his kibble some days? And what is this 2 week freeze I’ve heard mentioned? Do I need to freeze all meat before I give it to him? Am I killing a parasite by doing this? He loves fruits and vegies , he gets whatever I’m eating that day. Better to cook/steam them or just let him have it raw? Will still give kibble, at least for now so not worried about him needing supplements. Also, can I feed my cats the same way? Some chicken or beef in addition to their regular food? Can a cat chew up a chicken wing safely? Or more likely, a piece of a wing? Thanks!

[PetNutritionist]

Hello,
First off I would like to say that the Food that you are feeding your dog, is contributing to the bladder stones and gaining weight.
Diets high in grain and vegetables produce alkaline urine, which allows certain stones to form.
1. thing to get changed right off the bat, is the food. Vets are very helpful with figuring out and helping to remedy problems that your dogs are facing. But many of them are uneducated with dog food nutrition. I have studied Dog and Cat nutrition very intensely due to my dog almost dying because our vet recommended Pedigree dog food.
Science diet, Hills food from the vet and even in pet stores are CRAP. Any food that you can buy in a grocery store is CRAP. What you feed is what you get out of your dog. and I have helped MANY MANY pet parents learn how to better their dogs lives by just changing what they eat.
Your dog needs to avoid food with Grains. If a dog food ingredients has Rice, Brown Rice, Barley, Corn, Grain, Whole Grain, or such grains in the first 5-10 ingredients, its not food your dog is suppose to be eating.
GRAIN FREE FOOD is what your dog should be eating in order to loose weight and avoid bladder stones.
I suggest Acana because they are Grain Free, First Mate because again they are Grain Free and have always been grain free (My dogs are on this) and other foods that are grain free!
Your dog should also be eating twice a day only. As well needing to give it to her at a reduced amount till He/She looses weight.
Once in the morning and once at night, food should be measured so you know how much your dog is eating.
To help with arthritis, I would look into giving your dog some glucosamine and chondroitin.
You can actually give the ones you get at your drug store and mix it in with wet food and give it to her one a spoon. Make sure to get the pill capsule ones so you can open it and mix in with wet food.
As well, try and start giving Cranberry supplements to help with the unitary tract. You can as well use the ones you get at the drug stores or go with this brand for animals specifically
http://cranimal.com/products.html

You wouldn’t eat Macdonalds every day if you were trying to loose weight and care for your health would you? That is what you are giving your dog if you feed it Science diet, Hills or any food with Grains.

I know this will help a lot because I’ve done it personally myself. But I hope you try it and see for yourself.
Cheers

[annie]

Hi, I have a beautiful 6 month old cane corso/pitbull named Sadie. I have been feeding her orijen large breed puppy and recently switched to Fromm grain free and adding stella and chewys freezed dried which she likes but her butt is always red .iIhad them expressed by vet and was given powder but i feel so bad to have to keep having her go through that, as it seemed so uncomfortable she cried and i felt so bad ,does anyone have any experience with this issue? and any suggestion on diet or supplements that may help.
Thanks

[Jeff T]

Our dog has acid reflux. He was throwing up ( I think he’s actually just regurgitating, not really throwing up) about once or twice a week in the middle of the night and every now and then during the day while we are at work. We switched his food to Nutro chicken and oatmeal formula a couple of years ago and it seemed to control it pretty well. He only had an incident every other month or so. We’ve tried to give him Tums, per the vets recommendation, but he never would eat them.

About 2 months ago our dog got worse. He was throwing up (or regurgitate) every day. We have found that feeding him chicken and rice for a few days clears up these episodes and he’s back to normal. I started researching raw food and cooked food diets for him and now I’m making his food myself. I use chicken thighs (they are the cheapest), sweet potato, carrots, green beans, and blueberries. I throw it all in a slow cooker and when it’s done I remove the bones and mash it all up. I add 1/2 cup of dry food and 1/2 cup of rice when I’m ready to feed them and they love it. No more tummy issues and their farts smell 90% better. Or, is it 90% less bad? Either way, both dogs could clear out a room before.

The only part of the diet I haven’t solved yet is the supplements. It seems like there are good and bad things said about Dinovite, but I haven’t tried that yet. I’ve been using Nupro, and it seems to work ok.

[Dori]

TJ. When I initially started rotating foods a long time ago I would switch every two or three bags, then I started switching every bag. Always very very slowly. I eventually switched to commercial raw foods for all my three dogs because one of them has many food intolerances and allergies. I feed all three girls twice a day as I always have regardless of what I feed them and can now say, and it’s been a few months now, that I can feed them different foods a.m. and p.m. with no issues whatsoever. No gas, bad breath, diarrhea, constipation, nothing. I rotate their proteins within a brand, I rotate brands and I rotate their supplements. Nothing seems to bother them any more. Just as humans eat different foods for different meals without issues, so do my dogs. I will also say that they are incredibly healthy. I have a 14 1/2 year old Maltese (she’ll be 15 on 9/9/14) and I have a 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo and a 4 1/2 year old Yorkipoo. Vet is always praising how well they are. They only go to the vet at this point once a year for physical and the only vaccine they receive is rabbi’s vaccine. Hope any of this has helped.

Once you get your dogs accustomed to rotation, it has nothing whatsoever to do with their age. It is never too late to start rotating foods and they don’t take to rotation of diets any easier because they are young or old. Just take your time initially and before you know it you’ll be able to feed them different things all the time. Initially, like theBCnut, I used to add a complete probiotic and a digestive enzyme every day (not every meal). I haven’t done that in ages. Good Luck to you. Glad to meet you and welcome to the site if your new. If not, sorry I haven’t picked up on your name before.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

Marie, there have been a number of what is known as a “silent recall” through the years and, unfortunately, you have to be googling and constantly researching and get on every dog food recall list on line that you possibly can in hopes that sometimes those in the know get wind of them. That’s what I do, anyway. I don’t rely on any one site for recalls. As you know The Truth About Pets is a really great one. I check that site out every single day as well as others. Anytime I find out about any company or brand that has done that I cross them off my list of foods. I don’t adhere to the thinking that anyone can have a problem so let’s give them another chance. Nope! Any company that has recalls worse, a silent recall, are not getting a chance to injure my girls. I’ve stopped feeding kibble and commercial treats for those reasons. I have been feeding commercial raw and now some home made with supplements and their digestive systems are now strong enough that if a commercial raw food company has minor issues I know they’ll be fine. I don’t really trust any kibble company. I’d always be nervous. The only company that’s not raw that I trust is The Honest Kitchen and I rarely feed that anymore because it contains alfalfa and Katie has recently become intolerant or down right allergic to it.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Shawna-
Could you please help me with a few questions. My dogs’ had been suffering from loose stools for a long time. In my opinion, they most likely have leaky gut syndrome due to being treated several times with antibiotics and dewormers for parasites. I’m still frustrated about that as I believe I got very bad information from a vet, but that’s a different subject. They are doing much better, but not perfect now with me feeding Victor and various toppers. In addition I am giving them different supplements. The ones I give with l-glutamine are from Vetri Science and Thorne. In the above post are you implying that glutamine may not work? I was thinking of trying SeaCure now. If I do, should I discontinue the current supplements and digestive enzymes? I’ve also used phytomucil. Thanks for your help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shasta –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a homemade diet, in my opinion it truly is the healthiest way to go. The general rule is the less processed the better. Here Dr. Martin Goldstein provides a nice ranking of types of pet foods from best to worst: http://www.drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/.

Pre-mixes are one of the best routes for beginners to take because there are a lot fewer opportunities to go wrong. When feeding completely homemade (from scratch) it’s crucial that ingredients are added in proper proportions and certain supplements will need to be added to ensure that all the nutritional bases are covered.

In my opinion, Sojo’s pre-mix would be fine to use rotationally with other pre-mixes. I’ve used it a few times in the past. However, it does not appear to me that Sojo’s pre-mix would make a complete and balanced meal and I can’t locate any claims on their packaging or website that states the final product (once meat is added) will be complete and balanced (per AAFCO’s standards). There are quite a few pre-mixes out there on the market, my three favorites are See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/), The Honest Kitchen’s Preference (http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/preference) and Urban Wolf (http://www.urbanwolf.cc/).

If you ever want to venture into a completely homemade diet, I’d strongly recommend picking up a copy of “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s a great resource for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. The author is also the creator of the See Spot Live Longer pre-mix I mentioned above.

Best of luck!

[Shawna]

Hi Cathy,

Sorry for the delay… The absolute WORST thing you can feed sprite bar none is any form of kibble. Kibble is hard to digest and because of the lower quality of the protein it creates more BUN when compared to an equal amount of digested protein from another source.

AND, your vet is incorrect if he/she told you to feed low protein in the early stages of the disease unless there is significant protein in the urine. Testing has confirmed that lowering protein too low can actually increase all cause mortality. They have also proven that protein does not damage the kidneys. Because of this you don’t need to feed “low” protein until Sprite has advanced symptoms. Limiting protein even at later stages does not help the kidneys but it does help with symptoms which are caused by the increase of BUN etc in the blood. Limiting protein is not helpful however in the later stages of the disease limiting phosphorus is highly advisable. Phosphorus builds in the blood and CAN damage the kidneys. In the earlier stages of the disease phosphorus is often not detrimental.

For the record, my pup has had kd since birth and has been on HIGH protein raw (45 to 54% on a dry matter basis) since coming to me at nine weeks of age. She will be eight years old the end of June this year and is still doing well. The only time she shows symptoms such as vomiting is if I feed her kibble. The Honest Kitchen is a good food but I’d go with Love or Zeal and add extra good quality fats like coconut oil to increase calories and make her feel more satiated without extra protein/phosphorus. Canned (or better yet raw) tripe is another good option and can be fed with the HK or as a separate meal (pending you get one that is complete and balanced).

As noted, increasing fat keeps the calories up while lowering phosphorus per calorie consumed. This is very important in the later stages.

Other things to consider:

I HIGHLY recommend a product by Standard Process called Canine Renal Support. Audrey has been on it since I learned of her diagnosis. It helps to keep inflammation at bay.

Give Sprite access to all the water she wants but do make sure it is pure — reverse osmosis as an example. Adding toxins in via the water source only increases symptoms. Science has shown benefit to giving waters higher in calcium with low sodium. They didn’t identify actual names but Evian seems to fit the bill.

I HIGHLY recommend giving a HIGH quality probiotic and a specific type of prebiotic (known as nitrogen traps). The combination of these two products helps clear BUN etc from the blood sparing the kidneys from having to do the work. It also allows for even higher amounts of protein. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense (human product) and Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber (human product).

There are other supplements that are known to be beneficial such as food grade activated charcoal, spirulina, burdock root, organic turmeric and more. I mix a combination of these and others with a digestive enzyme and some of the Sprinkle Fiber and add a bit to every meal.

The products you use in your home can be problematic too. When Audrey was diagnosed I looked at the CDC and material safety data sheets for product ingredients I used in my home. Many (if not most) of them were not kidney friendly so I got rid of them and use only ones that are not damaging to kidneys. Example — clorox has a chemical that can damage kidneys in animals. From the material safety data sheet “2-Butoxyethanol has been shown to cause red blood cell hemolysis in laboratory animals and secondary injury to the kidney and liver. However, humans appear to be resistant to this effect” Clorox is pretty toxic anyway so I don’t even have it in the house but if you choose to use it, might be wise not to use it to clean the floors as it can be absorbed through the skin. http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/downloads/msds/cloroxprofessionalproducts/409nqf.pdf

I know I’m forgetting some things… 🙁 Let me know if you have any questions. Also Mary Straus’ website discusses the data I’ve mentioned above plus much much more. Very valuable source of information. She lists kibbles but she fed her own KD dog raw and believes in raw. You don’t have to feed raw but I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY suggest avoiding going back to any kibble. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

You and Sprite are in my prayers!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[Shasta220]

Again on the gulping – I wouldn’t worry too much about buying fancy bowls when you could have a DIY version for a fraction of the cost 😉 my guy gets half his meal as treats when we work obedience. I have him work, then give him a few Kibbles as reinforcement. The other half is either in a bowl mixed w his supplements, or stuffed into a kong. 🙂

[aimee]

Anxitane is the brand name of the supplement the trainer is referring to. L Theanine is the active ingredient. It is in blends of other supplements as well at lower levels than in the Anxitane. Anxitane is my preferred product and I have seen it help facilitate behavior modification.

Desensitization and counterconditioning of dogs with profound anxiety is a process whereby attention to detail and keeping the dog below threshold is important. I know as I own such a dog. I don’t like to ever see reactive dogs on neck collars. Initially I used a head collar and/or front attachment harness. The most frequent mistake made is putting the dog in situations that he/she is not ready for. This takes time… a lot of time and realistic goals.

General obedience classes may be inappropriate for your dog as many dogs are over threshold, Feisty Fido classes where the ratio of trainer to student is often one to one and they use screening between dogs to keep them under threshold until they are ready for contact can be helpful

You might want to buy Patricia McConnells book Feitsy Fido which is an excellent resource. If you are not familiar with BAT it is a useful technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WrseJPY09k

Working with a board certified vet behaviorist, a CAAB or a vet interested in behavior would be an excellent idea check here http://avsabonline.org/resources/find-consult

or hook up with a Karen Pryor trainer which you can find here: https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer?source=kpctnavbar

[theBCnut]

First of all, run don’t walk away from Cesar Milan tactics and don’t be jealous of someone that took that route.

Second, there are no anti anxiety supplements that I know of that are avoid at all costs, or super effective. They are definitely something that you just have to try and see what works for your individual dog. Some dogs are helped with one and some with another and some are not helped by any of them.

Third, are you sure that your dog isn’t part Border Collie?

[Shasta220]

Okay, so I will let y’all know my story…

Last year, a month after my favorite baby boy was tragically killed, I adopted what I thought was my “dream dog”. A blue Merle blue eyed prick-eared Aussie/kelpie. I was totally prepared for hyper, but the shelter had told me he was good with other dogs (they just said “he plays a bit rough, but loves dogs”).

Either they did a lousy temperament test, or he completely changed when he got home. He is an anxious mess when around new dogs. He’s on his second obedience class (there are only two types of trainers in town…one gears towards lots of correction, which only made him worse. His current one is purely positive reinforcement, and it’s not helping either). Regardless of the amount of exercise/mental stimulation (he gets pack walks, running, fetch, obedience, tricks, agility, frisbee, Kongs, other brain teasers, etc. ), he is severely anxious as soon as he sees another dog.

He has gotten slightly better, but ultimately I have concluded that I do not have the resources (or money) to have him remain calm. I do consider myself a knowledgable trainer as well. I know just as much as both of the obedience instructors know, and I’ve trained a few dogs successfully. Loki just lacked the vital socialization needed as a puppy (history is unknown) and has EXTREME fear-anxiety driven dog aggression. I’ve talked to a student of Cesar Millan (yep, I’m jealous), and she said that his only chance would be therapy. She doesn’t have the time to do it, and I don’t have the money (or resources to do it myself)

Anyway, with that big long sob story of my boo-boo-baby-bear, onward to the title: one of the trainers suggested an anxiety supplement (can’t remember the name of the one she said, but it was sourced from green tea I think). She has a couple dogs similar to Loki, and said the supplement helped them a LOT. Here are my questions:

#1. do they really work?
2. What are favorite brands/active ingredients?
3. What are “avoid at all costs” brands/ingredients?
4. Do they ONLY calm the dog? I do not want anything that’ll turn him into an inactive blob.
5. What are some of the more affordable ones?
6. If it will work, how long will effects start showing?

Please do not think that I’m a “lousy owner who shouldn’t own such a high drive breed”, because that is NOT me. I am hoping to be a dog trainer one day, and I do consider myself fairly good with dogs. If Loki was with anyone else, I do think he’d have been put down or shoved back in a shelter right now, and I really do mean that. He’s an amazing dog who has potential, if he can just overcome his extreme anxiety.

And no, I’m not expecting this supplement to be “the ultimate solution” to his anxiety and POOF make him nice to other dogs…I’d just like something to take the “edge” off of him and make him a bit happier/mellower in class.

[Mac T]

I am a veterinarian and feed Blue Ridge Beef products to my 3 Boxers and have recommended it to many other folks. I have used it for 3 years and find it to be of excellent and consistent quality. I have never observed charcoal in the product. Before I started using the food I had emailed the company and found their responses professional and timely. The dogs I feed it to are healthy and do extremely well fed BRB products exclusively. I am a breeder and also do a lot of obedience work with my dogs and credit their excellent health and performance to this food. I rarely find in necessary to supplement, as I feel most supplements are sold and used based on marketing and perception rather than medical/scientific fact. I have no affiliation to the company whatsoever, wish I did so I could get a discount though 🙂 Are there other raw foods that you can use, certainly-there are many, are BRB products worth feeding your dog, IME yes. I like BRB products due to quality, consistency, affordability, variety, and convenience. I prefer feeding a ground product instead of so-called prey model-just a personal choice. I have a lot of first hand experience feeding their products and I like them. One thing about internet info is that some times folks bad mouth something they have never used and that can be unfair. I have no vested interest in convincing anyone to use BRB, but I thought some actual first hand experiences about the products might help those considering them. I have no inside info about the company so I can not address some of the issues raised in this thread about their ownership or business connections, I just have experience actually using the products. I will be glad to attempt to answer any questions or inquiries about my dogs.

[First N]

I too have dealt with my 5 year old retriever gulping and swallowing with both of us in a panic as to what was wrong. Thought it was torsion for first attack. X-rays and blood work revealed nothing. Thought maybe he had gotten into something. Vet thought it was esophagitis and acid reflux. Had him on Sucralfate, Prilosec. Wet his kibble and fed 3 smaller meals a day.Seemed to help but then attack would re-occur in 20 days. Vet referred us to specialist. Specialist suspected HELICOBACTER bacterial infection. Endoscope was performed and a couple of tissue samples taken. Tests confirmed quickly that it was Helicobacter. Treatment involved 10 days of “Triple Therapy” with Probiotic supplements. Triple therapy is a Combination of 2 antibiotics: Amoxicillin and Metronidazole with Bismuth Subsalicylate (Pebto Bismol). Tests also showed elevated levels of eosinophils which indicate inflammation in stomach and intestines. Specialist recommended Switching him to food containing a “novel” protein: which is a new protein that he hasn’t eaten before. So far everything is going well, fingers crossed.

This post may or may not help some of you but I hadn’t seen a mention of Helicobacter as being a possible diagnosis. I wish you and your dogs the best. My dog is such a sweet boy. It was worth it to see him not gulp or swallow anymore.

[Mom2Cavs]

This could also carry over to supplements. I would like to say that Lucy has CETL (canine cutaneous epitheliotropic t-cell lymphoma) a rare skin cancer. After adding a supplement for her immune system from Vetri-Science called Maitake DMG she is in remission. It’s the only thing I did differently. Amazing!

[RescueDaneMom]

MastiffLove,

“i can mix the meat(s) fruits and boiled veggies and freeze and once thawed out add the supplements before serving.” – Yes, this is exactly what I would do.

I buy ground tripe as well for the same reasons as Patty (theBCnut). It’s pretty gross smelling stuff but the dogs love it!

Also, don’t worry about asking too many questions. Most people here want to help and we all started where you are at one point in time. I’ve only been doing this for about 6 months and I still have questions some times.

[RescueDaneMom]

Transferring my answer:

Hi MastiffLove,
I am answering your questions based on what I do and my knowledge and experience.

1- Yes, it is called green tripe. You may be able to get it from a butcher. For human consumption, they bleach the tripe which removes all the good stuff for our dogs.

2- Yes, you can grind necks if you don’t want to feed them whole.

3- Some people see vegetables as being optional. It is up to you if you want to include them. Remember that freezing can damage the enzymes in food so don’t keep food frozen for too long. I try to only have food frozen for a month or less. The Spirugreen is not a replacement for veggies. It is a green algae supplement. I wouldn’t freeze it. I would add it right before feeding.

4- I would puree fruits. You can feed in pieces but you will notice that some will come out just like they went it (example- the skin of the apple won’t be digested very well).

5- Sweet potato is a starchy root vegetable that has carbs. It can be used as a nutritious filler to bulk up meals for dogs that need a lot of food. It also contains high levels of vitamin a, vitamin c, and manganese.

6- Urban Wolf is a pre-mix that is meant to be used with meat only (no bone) as it contains enough calcium to balance the meat without bone. I believe Dr. Harvey’s is more of an herbal supplement and can be added to meat with bone.

7- I would suggest rotating different products for your supergreens. Try one then a different one. Variety is good!

8- Did you mean adding the product from question 7? From that quote I would think that adding some veggies is ok but not to overdo it. You wouldn’t want 50% of your pup’s diet to be veggies. I’d think you’d be ok having 5-10% veggies in the diet.

9- I would not freeze supplements like greens or fish oil. They may loose some of their effectiveness. I add my supplements right before feeding. I have the meat and/or meat/veggie mix portioned and frozen, then I thaw what I can use in 3 days.

I hope that helps.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[MastiffLove]

Thank you very much for your help RDM and yes i meant question 7….so if i recap i can mix the meat(s) fruits and boiled veggies and freeze and once thawed out add the supplements before serving.

Thank you theBCnut for that info! there’s actually alot of em in my area, i will make some phone calls! 🙂

should i grind the tripe like the meat or have it coarse grind to get Zeus to chew on it to get some teeth brushing going on? From what i read its a chewy type of organ?

Sorry for all those questions but i wanna make this right (still have a long way to g but i’m working on it) and have a healthy family member! 😛

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi MastiffLove,

I am answering your questions based on what I do and my knowledge and experience.

1- Yes, it is called green tripe. You may be able to get it from a butcher. For human consumption, they bleach the tripe which removes all the good stuff for our dogs.

2- Yes, you can grind necks if you don’t want to feed them whole.

3- Some people see vegetables as being optional. It is up to you if you want to include them. Remember that freezing can damage the enzymes in food so don’t keep food frozen for too long. I try to only have food frozen for a month or less. The Spirugreen is not a replacement for veggies. It is a green algae supplement. I wouldn’t freeze it. I would add it right before feeding.

4- I would puree fruits. You can feed in pieces but you will notice that some will come out just like they went it (example- the skin of the apple won’t be digested very well).

5- Sweet potato is a starchy root vegetable that has carbs. It can be used as a nutritious filler to bulk up meals for dogs that need a lot of food. It also contains high levels of vitamin a, vitamin c, and manganese.

6- Urban Wolf is a pre-mix that is meant to be used with meat only (no bone) as it contains enough calcium to balance the meat without bone. I believe Dr. Harvey’s is more of an herbal supplement and can be added to meat with bone.

7- I would suggest rotating different products for your supergreens. Try one then a different one. Variety is good!

8- Did you mean adding the product from question 7? From that quote I would think that adding some veggies is ok but not to overdo it. You wouldn’t want 50% of your pup’s diet to be veggies. I’d think you’d be ok having 5-10% veggies in the diet.

9- I would not freeze supplements like greens or fish oil. They may loose some of their effectiveness. I add my supplements right before feeding. I have the meat and/or meat/veggie mix portioned and frozen, then I thaw what I can use in 3 days.

I hope that helps.