[aimee]

Hi Peter,

I haven’t looked at Farmina so I can’t comment on the company/food. In regard to Nature’s Logic, the concept is appealing but because the foods do not have supplements they fall far short of AAFCO requirements. For example AAFCO min Vit D is 500 IU/kg and NL reports 175 IU/kg, AAFCO Vit E 50 IU/kg and NL reports 21.34 IU/kg.

In actuality though the nutrient content in most of NL formulas is unknown as the owner has told me he only tested one diet, the chicken variety, and then posted the same numbers with some minor variation for all the diets. I find that extremely irresponsible! UGH!!! One of the diets has been through AAFCO feed testing and the others use the family rule to substantiate the AAFCO label.

When I last inquired the person formulating the diets was the owner Scott Feeman. His degree is in marketing. In talking to him I found that he doesn’t understand very basic nutritional concepts, for example that Vit D is a dietary requirement in the dog. He told me not to worry about his diets being low in Vit D… I just need to let my dog sit by a sunny window. Oiy Via!

I asked what type of testing he does on the ingredients used in his food and he said none and at the time I talked to him he didn’t seem certain as to what post production testing was done at the co packers he uses.

I think the company excels at what the owner’s degree is in: marketing. When it comes to nourishing a dog: shaky ground. On the positive side one of the diets has passed a feeding trial.

[theBCnut]

How about a few pieces of kibble or a bit of chicken. Or maybe a super green supplement or a few blueberries for the antioxidants.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Julie-
It pains me to read your post as I have gone through basically the same scenario with my two pups, 3 year-old, 80 lb lab mixes. We battled both giardia and coccidia for about a year. I think they have permanent issues from that condition. I found a ton of helpful information on dogaware dot com. Check out this site’s digestive disorder tab. My dog’s stools are still loose after exercise or when they get real excited, unfortunately. But otherwise they have been pretty consistent. I feed mine mostly Victor grain free food. It contains a clay that is supposed to be helpful for dogs with different types of colitis. I also rotate between the Perfect Form, Gastriplex and Vetri Pro BD supplements that contain probiotics and enzymes along with some diarrhea remedies such as slippery elm that seem to help a lot too. As far as toppers go, it seems like when I add either raw nuggets or dehydrated to their kibble, they do better than when I add a little canned food. Of course, murphey’s law, they are much more expensive than canned. I hope you can find a combination that works for you. If you do start switching up, do it slowly and one at a time so you know if it is helping or not. Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Tripette is a canned food for supplemental feeding only, which means it should not be your dogs only source of nutrition because it isn’t balanced. But it is balanced for calcium and phosphorus, and low in both, which is what is important for giant breeds. Its tripe, so it smells awful, but dogs LOVE it.

[Lillian N]

I’ve been really trying to do a lot of research on this raw feeding thing but as much information as I’ve been stockpiling the more uneasy I become when it comes to the supplements part of it. Most sample diets I’ve seen are for much larger dogs (40 lbs and up) and my chihuahuas are really small (5 and 7 lb respectively) I think I got most of the other parts down and I’m pretty comfortable feeding them on the raw meats/organs part (no bone, they are gulpers and don’t like to chew thoroughly) so I am feeding them a whole sardine once or twice a wk to help with calcium thought I am not sure if this is sufficient. If anyone else has a small breed can you please provide me with a sample diet of what you are feeding your dogs? I want to make a full switch to raw since they do so well on it and I would prefer not to use mixes or pre-made ones(too expensive..) I was going to simply add a multivitamin and calcium supplement as well as vitamin e to the 1 lb of ground meat and organs +veggie mix I was going to make and feed them for the whole month but I read on dogaware.com that human multivitamins aren’t suitable for small breeds. any help would be much appreciated!

[theBCnut]

Just in case, give him a good thorough bath with Dawn. He may have gotten it to something poisonous that is affecting his neuro system and while you can’t get it out of him, you may be able to get some off him. It may be that he was born with a neuro condition. I wouldn’t wait to get him checked out, because the vet can give you an idea which it may be, and tell you what supplements may help most. I would want to give milk thistle for a few days just in case he got into something. It helps the liver, just in case, but if he didn’t get into anything it won’t hurt. Also, I would want to make sure he is getting a raw egg every other day with one meal, and adding lightly cooked egg to one meal on the other days wouldn’t hurt either. You want the white cooked but the yolk raw on those. That will supply some of the nutrients he needs to clear his system, if he can. Good luck and thanks for helping this big boy. Unfortunately, this issue may be why you found him where he was. Someone may not have wanted to deal with all of this. He may also have severe hip dysplasia and just can’t use his hind end right. A joint supplement may or may not help that. Osteo Bi-Flex for humans is a really good one. And that also won’t hurt anything if he doesn’t really need it, but I haven’t met the Dane yet who didn’t.

[theBCnut]

What a bummer! NutriSource is usually very easily tolerated, but there must be something in it that your dog doesn’t do well on. I have no idea what it could be. As long as you are seeing no other symptoms, you might want to look at The Honest Kitchen Perfect Form. It’s a supplement that helps calm intestines and firm up stools.

Have you seen Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that have an appropriate calcium level for large and giant breed puppies?

[FrenchieBourdeaux]

No he does good with the Fromm I just add it to his food every other day. My vet and the breeder said it helps with there digestion. But I have been reading and hearing a lot about goats milk and the great benefits for dogs and I was curious if I could use that or if it would be to much calcium right now. And I here good and bad on supplements so wasn’t sure what to do on them. And kind of off the topic question but how do you load a pic on your profile…..I feel like a idiot bc I cant figure it out.

Thanks

[aimee]

When adding supplements to a dog’s diet they shouldn’t make up more then 10% of the caloric intake. I use fresh foods whole foods as supplements: veggies, fruits ( no grapes raisins, currents, onions, garlic ) DHA,EPA ( fish oils).

I’m not sure what you mean by rotating boiled chicken and rice with Fromm. Boiled chicken and rice is missing many nutrients and as such is not a suitable to use as a meal on an ongoing basis. If using boiled chicken and rice it should not make up more than 10% of the calories fed that day unless you are balancing your homemade food.

[FrenchieBourdeaux]

Hey,

I was wondering what are good supplements for large breed puppies that are a must I have a 6 month old Dogue De Bordeaux Mastiff and wanted to make sure he gets all the supplements he is needed especially sense his grandfather was an impressive 210 pounds. And also is it okay to start adding goats milk to his food? I currently have him on the Fromm game bird and boiled rice and chicken rotation every other day.

Thanks for any help. Just want the best for my little guy.

[Kellye P]

It’s been a month since my first post so here’s an update. Duffy had his semi-annual bloodwork done. I don’t have copies of the results yet but my vet said:
Heartworm – negative
Thyroid – normal
Fructosamine – good control
CBC – no abnormal results
She sent his blood to the lab instead of using her own equipment. She wanted to make sure they tested for everything and using the lab allowed her to ask the various specialists questions. She explained that the concern is his weight.
(Sidenote: Duffy is her only underweight client!)
The specialist suggested we test for Cushing’s. I did not want to do that. We have tested him many times before and he always tests normal. However, the specialist said cortisol could play a role in his inability to gain weight. I thought too much cortisol caused weight gain, but I gave in and took him back for the test.
Result: normal
We did a urine culture which was negative. Nothing grew. My vet said that never happens. As I said before, Duffy is the healthiest “deathly ill” dog in the world.

Back when he was at UT Knoxville vet school for an exam, he was put on melatonin and flax lignin. He was not super skinny at that time. I asked my vet if I should go back to giving him those supplements. The idea at the time was to control non-Cushing’s cortisol, even though we could never prove that he had any problems in that area.
I don’t know if it ever worked but he was two pounds heavier.
So we’re back on melatonin and flax lignin.

I have the special enzymes too. I have not used them much since he doesn’t like wet food or kibble soaked in liquid.
Which leads me to my final update — I found a dry food that he loves. It’s made in Ohio so not far from us and it’s delivered fresh to Lexington. The company is called Pet Wants.

Duffy had gained 5 oz in the past ten days. I am beyond thrilled. My goal is 8 lbs and he is now at 6 lbs 7 oz.
Fingers crossed!!!!

[Naturella]

Zach, let’s see… Bruno is 14.5 lbs (could go up to 15 lbs eventually if he isn’t yet, but in late September he was 14.5 lbs). 14-15 lbs is a healthy weight for him. He is a small terrier mix of sorts (could be Jack Russell +/- Miniature Rat Terrier +/- Chihuahua +/- something else for all we know – he was found in the bushes, so we sometimes joke that he is a Bush Terrier, lol).

For kibble – I never go below 4-star foods (so far) and I rotate brands and proteins with every bag now (I used to rotate AND mix brands before). Thank goodness my guy is small, so foods last him a while. But, I supplement with a teaspoon of raw, organic, unrefined, cold-pressed coconut oil every other day or so (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday at breakfast), 2 heaping teaspoons of plain yoghurt/plain kefir Monday and Friday at breakfast, a raw egg once/week (Wednesday at breakfast), a half can of sardines in water once/week (Saturday at breakfast), and a raw meaty bone once/week (Sunday for dinner always – no other food for that meal). Also, for all meals that do not include the above additives (the dinner meals), I add 1-2 teaspoons of THK (alternating between Love, Embark, Force, and Keen, and also BDN), and I add water to make it soupy. Sometimes I would use canned, and still add a tad more water. And also Big Dog Natural (BDN; air-dried) green tripe, so you add that and water to the kibble, let it rehydrate as with THK, and serve.

As far as how much I take away – as per the feeding calculator on this site, and his food bags recommendations, he should have about 1 cup of dry/day, give or take small caloric differences in his brands of food. So, what I do is, I feed 3/4 cups/day of most recipes to account for the additives. On Saturday, when I feed the 1/2 can of sardines I feed 1/4 cup kibble for breakfast instead of the usual 1/4 + 1/8 cup. On Sunday, when I feed the RMB for dinner, I feed no kibble or THK, nothing. Just RMB. On Wednesday, when I feed the raw egg, I feed 1/4 cup kibble. All other meals, even with additives, are 1/4 + 1/8 cup of dry per meal. Of course, I make minor adjustments based on activity, body condition, etc., but that is his norm from which I can adjust.

Dry foods I have tried that he has done well on and could eat the kibble with no problems are: Nutro Natural Choice Small Breed Puppy (his first food when we got him, before I knew much about dog food – not a bad food though; Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy, Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension – Original, Allergix Chicken and Turkey, and Lamb and Brown Rice formulas, Dr. Tim’s Kinesis Grain Free (slightly bigger kibble, but oh well, he managed it just fine), Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpeas, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free (Coastal Catch and Primitive Natural), Victor Grain Free (all formulas) – (LOADS of samples, enough to consider him having eaten it and done well on it as a brand), Nature’s Variety Instinct (on samples he did well, on the actual food, Rabbit recipe – not really, so I stopped feeding it), Now! Fresh Adult (1 lb sample, he did well on it), NutriSource Grain Free all recipes (samples), Annamaet Grain Free (samples), Wysong (various samples), and I have a lot lined up – Back to Basics Red Meat, Canidae Pure Salmon, Dogswell LiveFree Salmon, Wysong Nurture with Quail, Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast. He’s had one-time samples of Stella and Chewy’s and Primal too, loved them. On occasion I would give him a small piece of a fruit/veggie, or a piece of organ/meat as a tiny treat, but those are sporadic enough for me to not account for. Same with edible natural chews – he can chew on and “eat” his antler daily, but sometimes I give half a 6-inch bully stick, 1/3 cow ear, 1 piggy snout (small) or 1 lamb ear, homemade doggie ice-cream treats, and those I don’t account for in his meals.

Hope this helps, I tried to be pretty extensive… LoL

[Hildie V]

For every bit of meat (phosphorous) you need calcium to balance the ratio

The amount in kale and yogurt isn’t enough. Phosphorous depletes calcium. That is why dogs on raw and bones don’t need supplement because the bone calcium rations the meat phosphorous

When not giving bones you *need* to add calcium, I don’t like calcium pills because you can get it by powdered eggshell

[Dori]

I am one of the regulars that feeds a rotational diet. The more quality foods that you can incorporate in your dogs diet the better they will be for it. None of us would eat the same food day in day out ourselves, not a healthy diet. Canines, like us, need variety. I feed many different brands and many different proteins within each brand. I rotate brands and proteins with each meal my three girls eat. I feed twice a day. I also rotate supplements and treats. The treats I feed for the most part are organic fresh fruits and veggies. No store bought treats. Too many recalls for my liking.

[Hildie V]

From what I have learned from a few books and sites I have read the guidelines for homemade food without using bones is this:

65% meat
10% organ
25% veggies

1 tsp of fresh ground eggshell per lb of food fed
Salmon oil daily
Vitamin e daily

I also add in a mineral and vitamin mix and a probiotic and digestive enzymes

If your dog doesn’t keep weight on with this you can increase the veggies to 40%, using mostly sweet potato or regular potato or a winter squash and use 10% organ and 50% meat

Yogurt isn’t enough of a calcium supplement, it balances itself but not the entire diet

You can also add fish a few times a week and eggs if they work for your dog

[Hildie V]

Hi Susan they do sound alike 🙂

She does best on food I make myself. Also, NRG raw dehydrated, but unfortunately she’s developed a wheat allergy in these wheat germ in NRG so I can’t use anymore.

I’m going to try a ground turkey, beef liver, beef heart, broccoli, zucchini, carrots, and potato next. I supplement with eggshell calcium because I don’t feed her bones. I also give Simon oil, vitamin E, digestive enzymes, probiotic, and a multivitamin and mineral specifically designed for dogs by a holistic vet.

I would suppose just as in humans certain things trigger acid reflux but it can be different in every person and also in every dog. I suppose there’s also an underlying reason why acid reflex is there to start with which is what I really want to get to the bottom of. That is, assuming she actually does have acid reflux and this isn’t something to do with something else because no one seems to know 🙂

I think finding foods that work for the dog is specific to each dog and it’s trial and error. Kibble can be a lot harder for them to break down than fresh food. Fresh food is highly digestible, and usually easier to digest. I would not touch a vet prescribed food with a 10 foot pole… But that’s not saying it doesn’t work for some people and their dogs, is just disgusting to me 🙂

If you want to make your own homemade food but are scared that you might not do it right you can buy a cookbook called Hillary’s Complete and Balanced and you can buy her supplements to go with it and then follow her recipes for homemade food. Her cookbook is only available through veterinarian offices in Canada and off her website in the USA. My girl did great on her venison and potato limited ingredient diet for five months until I couldn’t find the venison anymore at an affordable price :-). That is when I switched her to NRG…

Nothing I have done is a fix for sure, my dog is still having problems, and I like reading about what other people do to try and help myself as well 🙂

[Naturella]

Bruno got sick on the NVI Rabbit, but he’s never had the old formula, whatever that is. Vomiting and diarrhea, I tried him on it twice – first time it could have been something else that caused his illness, the second time was fully controlled and I attribute it entirely to the food. Alas, I really hoped it would work for him. Oh well, I will try another protein in the future and see how he does. For now he’s on a food he’s done well on in the past.

I guess, to the OP – Howard C – try to add The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form as a supplement for about a week – stool should improve – and keep your dogs on it for about 2 more weeks after stool is good. If it is unstable again when you take them off of Perfect Form, then it may be time for a food switch…

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Naturella.

[Dog_Obsessed]

I saw some “calorie boost” supplements at the pet store today, maybe those would help?

[pugmomsandy]

Dogaware.com has a homemade diet section and gives supplement information. You might check it out. I’ve also used the recipe book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” which also includes a vitamin mix recipe to be included in the meat/veg recipes.

[Karen J]

Great information, I’m calming down. I’ll still stay grain free, and filtered water- supplements like cranberry and Vit C and be given hidden in a treat separately.

Last year I lost a dog (a senior) but he was so sick and went through so much I just want to be cautious.

Thank you.

[Karen J]

Boiled chicken it is…what about the cranberry supplement – I’m not going to put it in the next food I try at least not until I see if she eat it. I want her to have it and I’m afraid if I put it in her filtered water she won’t drink that either and that’s of supreme importance.

[Karen J]

I’m hearing vitamin C and Cranberry. What safe delivery device for Vit C – 500mg? Cheese, cottage cheese or? I used boiled chicken today.

I saw these on Amazon: Cranberry Comfort Soft Chews, are they good?

Also I saw on Amazon strips to measure ph balance of her urine…she hasn’t developed an infection or stones as yet and I’d like to prevent it.

I’ve been getting overwhelming advice to stay away from fish but eHow recommends it – I think I’ll stay away from it.

Karen for Trixie

[Dog_Obsessed]

Just found this thread, and I just wanted to say THANK YOU for taking in a senior pup! I have volunteered with a local senior dog rescue, and I just love the oldies. There is also a great Facebook page called Susie’s Senior Dogs, that posts senior dogs up for adoption along with success stories and resources: https://www.facebook.com/susiesseniordogs

One question for Dori about the glucosamine supplements, I give the stage 1 version to Lily for mild luxuriating patella. I did not know that it was good not to give it with food, is that only for advanced care? Thanks!

[theBCnut]

Lucky you!! Dogs need calcium in their diet, that’s what they were talking about with the egg shells. You can either feed consumable raw bones(which are great for teeth) or eggshells with each meal. For bones, they need to be 10-15% of the animal portion of the meal. For eggshells, it’s 2 shells for every pound of meat.

They also need organs. About 10% of the animal portion of their food should be organs. Half of that should be liver and the other half should be other secreting organs. Heart coulnts as muscle, but kidney, spleen, etc. count as organs.

They need a regular source of omega 3s. The salmon should cover that as long as it isn’t too overcooked. Or add an Omega 3 supplement, 100mg of DHA and EPA combined per 10 lbs of body weight daily.

They need vit E and D, zinc and selenium, manganese, and a whole food supplement would be good.

If you want an easier way to do it, they sell premixes for boneless meats. Look for The Honest Kitchen Preference, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, or Dr. Harvey’s Veg to Bowl fine ground.

[pugmomsandy]

You’ll probably get several different answers from us as well! And we’re not vets. But, these are some suggestions. (1) increase moisture intake (canned food, freeze dried/dehydrated foods (rehydrated), fresh/frozen raw foods, even kibble flooded with water) to help keep the bladder flushed out. (2) avoid feeding only dry food. (3) more frequent potty breaks. (4) cranberry/d-mannose supplement daily.

If she has alkaline urine, you can also add (1) small vitamin C capsule or a methionine (amino acid) capsule daily. (2) or a commercial pH reducing product (ex: Wysong Biotic pH-) or “grass saver” type product with methionine. Purchase pH test strips so you can monitor the urine pH.

I haven’t heard of fish being a problem regarding struvites.

[theBCnut]

If you get another commercial raw and a premix or 2 to rotate between, the only thing I would want to make sure of is tripe at least once a week or a multistrain probiotic and the omegas. If you are feeding twice a day, one meal of oily fish is enough Omega 3s. Their fish was only part oily fish, so may not be enough. If you are adding a fish or krill oil supplement, then you want 100mg of DHA and EPA combined for every 10 lbs of body weight daily. Skip flaxseed oil, it has the wrong form of omegas for dogs.

[Angie]

Hi Guys!

I looking for advice from some of you avid raw feeders. I have been feeding Big Country Raw dinners to my two pups for the last 4 months. I have a Samoyed that’s just under 2 years old and a Shih Poo who is almost 8. The samoyed is 65lbs and the Shih Poo is 16 lbs.

My Samoyed had Coccidia and Giardia as a puppy and he has been treated for it a few times and since then his digestive system haven’t been the same so we tried raw for him and it was almost a miracle. He has small solid poops to where I don’t have to bathe his butt every morning before work.

Anyways the main reason for this post is that.. is there anything I need to add to their diets? They are getting a rotation diet of Chicken, Turkey, Beef, Lamb, Breeder Blend, and Fish Dinner. Is there a supplement I need to add since they will most likely been on this diet for a while. I do give them chicken and Turkey Necks once a week and Bones to chew + Brush their teeth a few times a week.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,
Angie

http://www.bigcountryrawstore.com/Dinners-s/1818.htm

[Kristin C]

Hi Kari-I feed both my dogs raw and have found making my own food to be the most economical, although I estimate it’s still almost twice the cost of high end kibble. Buying commercial raw or freeze dried raw is probably 3-4 times more than the kibble. My husband and I agree we’d rather spend the money on real food for them versus vet bills and potential illness. Sounds like you have a lot going on as it is, but you can probably start by making small changes. The book See Spot Live Longer the ABC Way might be a good start. I’ve started using the SSLL Dinner Mix to ensure my homemade meals are AAFCO compliant. There are other supplements and base mixes you can use as well and just add meat. Hope that helps some.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Here are the ingredients to Hills z/d:

Starch, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Soybean Oil, Hydrolyzed Chicken, Powdered Cellulose, Lactic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Glyceryl Monostearate, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement , Folic Acid), DL-Methionine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors , Beta-Carotene.

It doesn’t look overly horrible, but it doesn’t look great. I am surprised that it contains chicken and soy, both common food allergens. I might recommend trying your own elimination by buying high-quality dog foods free of certain common allergens and seeing which ones help. I have heard that feeding raw can help with allergies, but I can’t say from experience on that. Hope this is helpful!

[Kari L]

Hi, I am considering doing a raw food diet with my two dogs. They are old and have no real health problems but do have big lumps forming on their skin for the past 1-2 years. Fatty tumors I am guessing. I haven’t taken them to a vet in a very long time.
My daughter has autism and is obviously my priority. We eat 90% organic diet as a family and spend most of our money doing so among many of her supplements.
I am kind of sick of buying crappy dog food for them. I buy them a grain free dry dog food now which is mostly meat then followed by sweet potato which I know they don’t need.
I am not so worried about these two ( I love them but realize they are on there way out of this world and the damage of their teeth wont be repaired) but when they go would like to ditch the crappy dog food for sure.
So sorry for the long introduction but my question is how much does this all cost and how much preparation is involved? I have been buying what I thought was raw dog food at Whole Foods lately but realized it was lightly pasteurized. It was lamb and many lamb organs with many synthetic vitamins/minerals.
Do most people use synthetic vitamins/minerals on this diet? Again total newbie but do love nutrition.
BTW my dogs now are 11 and are 10 and 15 pounds. My next dog I plan will be bigger like a golden retriever.
Thank you much!

[Bobby dog]

Thanks so much for taking the time to write your experience with these products. The beets caught my eye a few months back. I have a healthy pup at this time, but was checking it out for his skin and coat. A year ago his skin and coat was a mess. I have since resolved his issues with diet changes and other supplements, but I am always on the lookout for any natural supplement.

What a time you have had with your guys! Nice to read you had the patience and knowledge to find a diet that works for your IBS dog, that’s half the battle. Your Sr. fellow sounds like he has benefitted from your care as well! 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Sounds like you’re doing great so far!

Bichons are prone to bladder crystals so I definitely think adding canned food for the additional moisture is a great idea.

I’d suggest adding fresh, whole foods to get diet as well. Canned sardines are a great way to do that. Here’s an awesome download that’s worth every penny of the $1.95 it costs. It’s Steve Brown’s ABC method of supplementing any diet with fresh, whole foods.

http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41_1

[Jude s]

Hey! I was going to make a thread on this topic, but I saw this one….I hope it’s ok if I can ask my question on here 🙂
My 2 month old puppy has really soft stool, foul smelling, some mucus, and always seems to push kind of hard. He doesn’t whimper, he still eats and plays just fine.
I checked for worms, or any white specs, but he’s clear. I’m thinking he’s just having some irritation. I was thinking on putting him on some digestive enzyme supplements, I saw the suggested ones above, but not sure if those are ok for my puppy. I also saw the honest kitchen had supplements as well (Perfect Form & Pro Bloom).
Also if this helps he is a pitbull/chihuahua mix and about 7.5 lbs. He is eating Wellness puppy kibble, but I will be introducing raw foods sometime this month.

[H&N]

Hi everyone! I’m thinking of switching to Manitok Red Meat formula (from Zeal, a New Zealand brand). I have some doubts though. My concerns lie with monosodium phosphate, oligofructose & salt listed in the ingredients.

From Wiki, oligofructose is a sweentener extracted from fruits and vegetables, and that list include onion and leeks, which are off-limits to dogs. Should I be concern that this is added to the kibble?

Monosodium phosphate, from what I find from the web, is a combination of the synthetic forms of phosphorus and sodium. Phosphorus can be found in many foods and it’s rare for humans to be deficient in this, and usually doctors would make the recommendation if a supplement is needed. I have no idea if dogs need it in supplemental form, but surely additional sodium is not necessary, right?

And the salt, should I worry that the manufacturer add salt to the dry food? I don’t see it mention in the review and discussions. Am I being too paranoid? Any help is much appreciated!! Thank you!!

[HEATHER M]

I’m thinking of switching from Wellness Core Reduced Fat to Kahoots Grain-Free Beef and Boar. My dogs have been doing well on the Wellness for a while, but I think it’s a good idea to switch foods every so often to make sure their is nothing they are lacking. Wellness is rated 5 star on this website. Would Kahoots also be 5 star? Here is the ingredient list:

Ingredients:
Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Peas, Beef Fat (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (Source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Yeast Culture, Dried Kelp, Potassium Chloride, Natural Beef Flavor, Vegetable Pomace (Carrot, Peas, Tomato, Celery, Beet, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach), Dried Egg Product, Montmorillonite, Salt, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pumpkin Seed, Monosodium Phosphate, Yeast Extract, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B3), Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (Source of Vitamin B5), Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Biotin ( Source of Vitamin B7), Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplment, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid, Folic Acid (Source of Vitamin B9), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Carbonate), Dried Chicory Root, L-Lysine, Selenium Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid (Preservatives), Rosemary Extract.

[Kristin C]

Jan-I feed my girls raw meaty bones on the weekend and split a can of sardines between the 2 of them at the same time. I also split a can between the 2 girls mid-week as a snack. I prefer to feed whole food versus a daily “supplement”. Have you explored yeast overgrowth for the skin allergies?

[JAN E]

Kristin C, what do you suggest for an oil supplement? I tried a fish-based oil, but her breath and the smell of her toys was awful!! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

Kathleen,

Have you tried giving some probiotic/digestive enzyme supplement with meals? My pup used to have such baaaaaad gas but after giving the supplements for a while, the gas is gone no matter what kind of food they eat. I used to give it everyday, but now just a couple times a week.

[Jude s]

Wow, Thanks everyone! I’m going to try SSLL dinner mix 🙂 I’ll experiment with different meats, and the sardines little by little. Also I was thinking of adding enzyme pro-biotic supplements , one of my pups is having really soft stool, and a lot of it. I’m going to be taking them both to the vet, but I’m hoping the supplements will work.

[theBCnut]

As growing puppies, large and giant breeds have very specific calcium requirements, which most large breed puppy foods don’t even meet, but once they are grown, you can feed them whatever. Just concentrate on feeding a correct amount of good quality food so that they don’t become overweight and more prone to joint issues. You may also want to add a joint supplement to help ward off damage to joints.

Some large breed formulas have joint supplements added in, but they are never actually at a therapeutic dose unless you over feed by quite a lot. Some restrict one nutrient or another based on old outdated research.

[pugmomsandy]

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_5170952x1024_zpsec466d4d.jpg

This site has a demo video:

http://northcoastpets.com/barf_hardware.htm

Other raw feeders have told me they have the 3/4 hp Cabela brand grinder and it’s worked just fine on chicken and turkey parts and it was less than $200. And adding in the lean ground meat and decreasing the beef organ mix would balance it out better (the meat and bone portion), but also check out the supplement section at dogaware. And you can also find hearts, tongues, cheek, even uterus at ethnic grocery stores as well.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Dori]

Hi cindy q. I went on their site and, actually, the food looks pretty decent. I put a call into them and have been told that all ingredients with the exception of the lamb which is sourced from New Zealand are locally sourced and absolutely nothing is from China. She is getting back to me either today or tomorrow because I wanted to know what she can tell me about the vitamin e supplement. She is double checking to make sure that the vitamin e contains no soy. She wasn’t sure. Personally I avoid feeding as much as possible soy for Katie. Autoimmune issues. Web site also states that it meets AAFCO standards. I’m going to assume that it meets AAFCO’s standards but has not actually gone through AAFCO feeding trial. I’ll post more on the vitamin e went she gets back to me. Hope all goes well with the new food.

[Laura B]

sorry, i keep being unclear. he can also eat barley and oats.

this is what is in pro series:

Fish Meal (Herring & Anchovy), Brewers Rice, Whole Barley, Whole Oats, Fish Oil (Herring), Dried Brewers Yeast, Calcium Carbonate, DiCalcium Phosphate, Kelp Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Malted Barley Flour, L-lysine Hydrochloride, Inactivated Yeast, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C Activity), Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, Zinc Methionine, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Selenium Selenite, Manganese Methionine, Copper Lysine, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione, Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid. – See more at: http://proseriespet.ca/dog-food/holistic-fish-and-rice/#sthash.LLGpRtYI.dpuf

[TheNaturalDog]

Or, Zignature Triut & Salmon Meal Formula

Ingredients
Trout, Salmon Meal, Peas, Pea Flour, Pea Protein, Flaxseed, Chickpeas, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Salt, Chorine Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Poteinate, Cobalt Proteinate), Vitamins (Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Blueberries, Carrots, Cranberries, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols.

[TheNaturalDog]

Holistic Select Grain Free Adult & Puppy Health Salmon and Anchovy & Sardine Meal

Ingredients:
Salmon, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Potatoes, Peas, Dried Ground Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Menhaden Fish Meal, Tomato Pomace, Flaxseed, Pea Fiber, Pumpkin, Natural Fish Flavor, Cranberries, Apples, Brewers Dried Yeast, Papaya, Salt, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Blueberries, Pomegranate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Inulin, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fennel, Ground Peppermint, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Trichoderma reesei Fermentation Product, Dried Rhizopus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract.
This is a naturally preserved product.

[Laura B]

Hello All,

I have a 12 year old dog that is probably a lab mix who has been having problems with hair loss. a year ago he was losing hair in patches on his face and the tips of his ears. also some dry cracked skin on the tips of his ears, that i picked off, and swollen ears from tips almost to base. i took him to the vet many times and eventually another vet suggested that it could be allergies.

I had been feeding him pro series hypoallergenic food in canada, but i have since moved to the states with him and i can’t get it here. the hair on his face had completely grown in and his ears were getting better as well. i just switched to pure vita salmon and potato, which he greatly prefers, but his ears are swollen again and no more signs of improvement with the hair coming back. i’ve been reading about this and it seems that ear infections are often triggered by food allergies, and this is a sign of the allergy (though the only problem with the ears is swelling, hair loss, and maybe some purple marks on the skin). i have looked everywhere for a food with similar ingredients but i can’t find anything that is just mostly herring, anchovies, and rice. i also supplemented with canned tuna to make the pro series more appetizing, and that seemed fine. if anyone can offer any suggestions of what to try or how to interpret this i would appreciate it so much.

[Akari_32]

I’m not sure how cleaning her teeth would go. Perhaps once the antibiotics are done, and her mouth isn’t as painful I will try with one of the human tooth brushes laying around in the bathroom (before buying all the doggy stuff). I’ll see how a plain toothbrush goes over, but I don’t have very high hopes LOL

I did find a glucosamine supplement that I really think is doing very well for her. Its just the Publix Greenwise brand, but its 1000 mg of Glucosamine and 500 (?) of MSM per three pills. I’ve breaking one pill a day open for her. She’s definitely got more spunk in her, and seems to be less grouchy when getting picked up. I took Bentley to get his rabies shot today (yuck!) while I was doing my internship, and forgot to bring my money so I brought him home and switched him out for Ginger and walked back to pay, and she basically ran and bounced the whole way. She was literally acting like a puppy most of the walk, its was so cute lol At one point, she stopped to sniff something that must have been extra good because it took several calls and leash tugs to get her attention, but once I got her attention, she did that crazy everything-is-just-so-exciting-I don’t-know-what-to-do-with-myself sideway bouncey gallop that puppies do LOL Crazy dog XD She’s still limping and sore, but she’s in really good spirits. Most of the time she sleeps, but when she’s awake and moving, half the time she’s running (which is actually an awkward little hoppy thing LOL).

Oh, and I was really mean and tested her today. I was eating mac and cheese on the couch (you know, like an adult *roll eyes*) and she hobbled up the stairs and was trying to get a treat out of me. I told her no, and she stayed over on the far end, so I put my empty bowl down, right in front of her, and wouldn’t let her touch it. She was so good, just waiting patiently, looking at me like “can I lick it yet?” I didn’t let her have any, because she either pukes, almost pukes, or gets explodey butt after eating people food, but you know lol

[USA]

Hi Kristin C,

I use See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mixes as my main supplement. I also use Balance IT Carnivore Blend. For Omega 3’s I use canned sardines in water and I dehydrate calamari and salmon fillets with skin. I alternate digestive enzymes and probiotics (100 billion). For fiber I use psyllium husks, sprouted flax seeds, dehulled hemp seeds and ground chia. I use ground chia instead of whole chia seeds because I’m worried about the tiny seeds getting caught in their digestive tracts.

[Kristin C]

USA-what supplements do you use?

[USA]

Hi cindy q,

I feed my guys a homemade diet of fresh pasture-raised meats, free-range poultry and wild-caught fish. I do not feed them any foods that contain ground bone because I lightly cook everything. Their diet is about 80% meats and 20% vegetables. They occasionally get organs and fruits. I lightly cook everything and I use supplements to make sure their diet is balanced and complete.