[Hershy]

Hello- Is there an updated version of the Calcium safe Large breed puppy foods for pups under 8 months old? The one linked has Royal Canin Maxi-Starter as a 4 star food (I used to use it, but it is different now) On the regular list of dog foods it is shown as a 3.5 star food. I recently bought some (To get it, I now have to register as a breeder who will promote their food, and it is available only through RC). It is awful now! I had used it successfully for a few years for my pregnant mom, and then for her pups up to 8wks old, but after receiving it, and just sniffing it, I can no longer use it. My girl won’t touch it now. She ate it reluctantly when first opened, and eventually spit it up. I tried putting it with her other food, but no.

I am very disappointed since I felt I was on a pretty good program specifically for moms and baby dogs (relative to processed foods -I know they aren’t the best over all-I am trying to use the best I can afford).

Because I am no longer confident that the Royal Canin is a good quality food, I would be thankful if anyone can suggest for me a good mother and baby dog food to start them on, My dam is in her final trimester! I am very concerned for the nutrition of my dogs. The health of my dogs and pups is my greatest interest. I give them raw chicken from time to time to at least give them a nutritional boost, but the adult dogs we have are generally eating the Victor dog foods: Hi-Pro Professional (aqua bag); grain free (red bag and gray bag). We have been pleased with the better quality Victor products – a great value.

Thank you in advance for any counsel anyone can offer.

[Dori]

Hill’s has removed certain cans of their Science Diet Food. Wondering why it hadn’t appeared anywhere here yet so I thought I’d post the info. If you click on the link you can see which formulas.

Voluntary Withdrawal Hill’s Science Diet Canned Pet Food

• This topic was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Ysabella J]

Hey everyone!

I know this is mainly a forum for dog nutrition but I am branching out looking for information. I will try to make this as short as possible. About a month ago, Reese (our 4 & a half year old Golden) was outside playing with a stick and came back to me crying. I examined her mouth and didn’t find anything. For the next few days she was very sore when opening her mouth too wide. Took her to the vet and they sedated her and checked her mouth and did X-rays with everything returning normal. She was put on meloxicam and the doctor warned me about MMM. She quickly got better and wasn’t as sore but I noticed she still wouldn’t open her mouth all the way when yawning and seemed to be careful when picking up balls. Another vet said it could be TMJ and to continue the nsaid for another week. Other than not being able to fully yawn, she seemed to be completely fine. Eating fine, no drool, no whining, etc. I talked to the vet and they recommended sending out the 2M antibody test and starting prednisone. I did some of my own research and decided to get a 2nd opinion from the holistic vet first. Only thing is, she was booked out 3 weeks. In the meantime, we were careful with her jaw. No bones or chewing and no ball playing. She didn’t get any worse and I once again only noticed her yawn being off. Fast forward, Reese had her initial appointment last week and the doctor there agreed with MMM. Said the muscles around her jaw bone felt almost non-existing. She also commented on how her cheek muscles looked like they were slightly sunken in. We sent out the 2M antibody test and it came back as a borderline antibody titer and they recommend a muscle biopsy to confirm. Vet agrees with me that since her symptoms aren’t terrible that we will wait to do this since it is an invasive procedure. The holistic vet decided to put her on chinese herbs and supplements. We are also doing acupuncture weekly (for now). She said at this point since her only symptom seems to be her yawning and muscle atrophy that we don’t need to put her on prednisone, or NSAIDs. If it gets worse, we may have to. I will do anything before turning to the steroids. We are reluctant that we caught it before it progressed but doc says no vaccines or toxins that can trigger a reaction since it’s an auto immune disease. We already had been feeding partially raw and Orijen kibble which we will continue to do. She has had two acupuncture sessions and has been on the supplements for one week and I haven’t noticed improvement, but she’s also not doing worse. Anyone have any recommendations or have been through this? I read it is common in the breed but I had never heard of this disease until now. Any advice is much appreciated from me and my girl. Thanks from the both of us!

[Brad C]

You aren’t supposed to feed a dog with kidney disease a dry food. You need a food with a high moisture content, and low phosphorus. I use Primal raw food. It’s got very low phosphorus, and really high moisture content. Look up Dr. Becker on YouTube, she does free videos on these topics. She’s an holistic vet. who does the videos free. She’s been a wealth of info., myself, and my dog who also has kidney disease. Hope this helps.

[C4D]

Hi Rebecca M,

Has the dog been to the vet for a dental check and cleaning? This, along with brushing is the best way to help with any dental problems and potential future problems such as liver or kidney disease.

Freshpet is a very soft food to feed. I don’t know if you want to go this route, but the dehydrated foods that you rehydrate, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojos all have meat inclusive and premixes that you can add raw or fresh cooked meat. If you use a ground turkey, chicken or beef, it would be very soft to eat.

[Dina Kouveliotes]

So far so good feeding Petcurean Now Fresh Large Breed. I think Orijen has been free of controversy except for an issue exporting to Australia, but that was a unique situation. Ideally I’d love to feed fresh food, but I won’t feed raw (disgusts me, not the dog) and cooking a balanced meal for a dog is somewhat challenging. So I supplement the kibble with fresh foods as a compromise.

[pugmomsandy]

The “freeze dried raw bits” can have fewer ingredients (plant matter and other fillers) than kibble. Take a look at Vital Essentials freeze dried as an example. I buy Vital Essentials and use it as a mixin’ to kibble. Even some other brands of freeze dried raw can have fruits and veggies but overall their ingredient list is relatively short compared to kibble. I also like Stewart’s freeze dried bits. They easily crumble up so I can mix it into the kibble pretty well.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Allison-

Freeze dried foods are believed to be healthier because they are not processed at high temperatures, therefore retaining more of their nutrient value. They are more convenient than raw because they don’t need to be refrigerated or frozen. You should add a little water to reconstitute it.
My dogs really like it, but they like just about everything. I have the opposite problem, though, since I always mix fresh, canned, freeze dried in their kibble and if I don’t, they give me the stink eye!
I actually bought Merrick’s Back Country a few weeks ago because our feed store had a buy one get one free sale. Otherwise, way out of our budget. They have very nice bags with a Velcro closing. Haven’t seen that one before. I have two dogs and notice that their bowls would have uneven amounts of the bits in them. I have to even them out. I don’t really like the fact that some scoops would have some and some would not. I’d rather buy the freeze dried separate and add it to meals. Many companies sell freeze dried meal mixers.
I’m not sure if you have priced them, but they are really expensive. I usually stick to canned or fresh food toppers, such as eggs and healthy leftovers.
It’s hard to say if your dogs will like them. Do you add water to their meals? Try to buy at a store that would be willing to take it back if they won’t eat it. I agree with Marie that we can definitely make our dogs picky, but hopefully you can find something healthy that they like too.
No, I haven’t tried any freeze dried myself. I have, however, tried some fresh and dehydrated dog food myself as well. Lol!

[Allison C]

I noticed that some dog food nowadays infuse th kibble content with freeze-dried raw bits (e.g.Merrick Backcountry). Petco employee says that freeze dried bits are more nutrition packed therefore better than dry kibbles (please correct me if I’m wrong). I googled it to find more info, but those were just too broad and ambiguous.

My dogs are notoriously picky and slow eaters that if they sense that something is mixed within their food, they would spit them out or eat around the “foreign”. For instance, Blue Buffalos don’t work for us because my dogs don’t eat lifesource bits. Or sometimes when my dogs refuse to eat, I mix in blue buffalo wilderness biscuits (the ones with 30% protein) in their bowl but again, my dogs would only pick those out and leave the kibbles. So if I decide to buy this, I’m unsure whether my dogs would eat around the bits or eat those exclusively. But if the raw bits are better, I don’t mind feeding my dogs 100% freeze dried raw bits.

So my questions are

1. Are freeze-dried raw bits better than high quality dry kibble? Better how?
2. Are they easily digestible for older dogs?
3. In general, do they taste better? Will the dogs like them? (has anyone tasted it? I know I taste dog food all the time…)

[Ruthy N]

Anyone has suggestions for large breed adult food?
I have an American Bulldog, Odin, that is a year and 4 month old, weighs 95-100 lbs. and a 4 years old French Bulldog mix with something perhaps English Bulldog, Charlie, weighs 36-40 lbs. I recently started feeding them Whole Earth Farms Grain Free either the Salmon or the beef/pork/lamb combo. My dogs also love fresh veggies like cucumbers, carrots, green beans, and fruits.
I have 2 issues I am dealing with:
Minor but important: the size of the kibbles with the “All Dog Breeds Foods.” It is not suitable for a large breed. Odin is not chewing it well.
The major issue: The American Bulldog has skin problems. He is allergic to something. He has redness around his face and skin and red spots on his belly. We tried different kind of dog foods and nothing seems to work for him. We also tried different kind of allergy medicine. The vet can’t figure out the problem as well. So far, we are avoiding chicken and grains. The allergy is possibly environmental, perhaps grass or pine straw. We picked up Odin at 6-7 weeks old infested with flees and ticks. He was covered with tick larva. It was horrible. This may be related to his allergies. The vet has been running tests, but no luck so far.

Any suggestions for food or anyone encountered similar problems?

[Carrie K]

My soon to be 6 month old GSD puppy has been on Orijen and while my adult male handles it fine she is just having pudding poo, I think it might be too rich for her.. she’s currently 42lbs and I’m feeding her 2 cups a day so I don’t think it’s that I’m overfeeding her. I’m trying her on a lower protein kibble now, pine forest TOTW.. I swear I’d never feed a diamond food but I’m not as much as a food snob as I used to be I guess lol. I’d prefer to feed raw but with some recent health issues I’ve had to move to a kibble/raw blend.. they get mostly kibble but with some raw added in for teeth cleaning along with raw eggs a few times a week, fish oil and probiotics/digestive enzymes.

I really like the taste of the wild lineup being able to rotate differing proteins along with the price point. Helps me be able to add more raw in! I know their reputation isn’t great though.. Is there a similar food? I’m on the editor’s choice list and don’t understand many of the foods on there as most of them I haven’t and wouldn’t chose to feed. I’m at a loss and so confused!

I like Acana and really like the look of their new products coming in 2016, it’s just so pricey.. I have 5 dogs! I’ve tried Victor and just didn’t like the results I got with that, both my GSD’s got really nasty dirty ears on that food even the fish and sweet potato one… their coats also weren’t as nice. So what I’m considering right now is TOTW, Fromm and Earthborn. My big issue is my male is allergic to a lot and seems to get most itchy on chicken and pork. He looks absolutely amazing on Orijen six fish but at almost $100 a bag it’s hard to justify long term. So just looking for foods similar to TOTW but with a better reputation and ingredient sourcing, I also have zero issues with grain inclusive foods as I don’t think they are any better than all the potatoes and lentils in grain free foods.

TIA!

[Jennifer Y]

Hi Kristine,
Sorry to hear about Koji. I unfortunately don’t have much advice for your situation. Since posting about Nimbus’ Nutriscan results, we’ve done a bit of trial and error on raw meat proteins with her diet, but my situation wasn’t as dire as your’s. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now.

I personally take the Nutriscan results with a grain of salt. She does fine with most of the food she’s apparently reactive to according to Nutriscan. I’ve been giving her Kefir and plant-based digestive enzymes to help break down her food as well, because I do believe she has a sensitive stomach. Maybe try adding those to Koji’s meals?

Regardless, I hope you find answers soon and some extra cuddles for Koji!

[Shawna]

Hmmmmm? Creatinine is only a little high… Something doesn’t jive here. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rules but creatinine is a better indication of how well the kidneys are actually functioning (from everything I’ve ever read). Maybe newer data is suggesting different but data on this site, veterinary medicine dvm360, published in 2011 still agrees “A serum creatinine concentration is the most commonly used measure of severity of renal dysfunction and is the basis for staging chronic kidney disease (CKD) (Table 1). To optimize accurate staging of CKD, serum creatinine concentrations should be evaluated on two or more occasions when the patient is well-hydrated.” http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/laboratory-evaluation-kidney-disease?rel=canonical

Based on a BUN of 77 and a creatinine of 1.6, I personally wouldn’t do low protein but rather moderate amounts of “high quality” protein.

Does your girl have large amounts of very dilute urine? Was there any protein in the urine? Was any other tests done? Is there any other medical conditions? Did you get a second opinion? She doesn’t want to eat often but you said this is just her normal. Does she have any other symptoms such as vomiting, depression etc?

This may help… My Audrey was diagnosed when she was just 13 months old but had symptoms when she was just 6 weeks old. Within the first year of diagnosis I made dietary changes and then had her blood work done every three months. On December 18, 2007 (the second blood work done after the dietary changes) her BUN was 77 (6 to 25 normal) and her creatinine was 1.9 (0.5 to 1.6 are normal ranges for this lab). Audrey didn’t eat a lower protein diet for another almost 7 years.

They also now know that senior dogs actually require MORE protein than adult dogs because they are less efficient at digesting it. Even toy breed dogs – I had a 4 pound Chihuahua live to age 19 eating a HIGH protein diet.

Please take some time to read the articles on this website. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Okay……..YES – I would highly recommend starting her on Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It’s pricey up front but will last a long time for a four pound little girl. I’ve never used Five Leaf but others I’ve directly talked to felt it helped. The Primal Defense and Acacia Fiber will help lower BUN. I personally would look at feeding foods with higher quality and amounts of protein and getting rid of the cream of wheat and gravy. See if you can find canned tripe — a brand that is just tripe. There is one out with quinoa but I’m not sure how much phosphorus is in quinoa so not sure it is suitable? It may be, I just don’t know. Tripe itself is higher in protein with moderate amounts of phosphorus. Most dogs really really like it too. You can continue the goat milk (best if it’s raw in my opinion). Eggs are a good option but the yolk is higher in phosphorus so, recommendations vary depending on stage of the disease, you might want to feed more cooked whites then whole eggs (maybe a one to one ratio – one whole egg with one white only). I would also suggest against feeding homemade as it is really important to get the phosphorus to calcium ratios correct and to limit phosphorus to appropriate amounts for the stage of the disease (which is early stage based on the numbers you mentioned—unless your lab normals are way different than mine?). There are recipes online if you want to home prepare. Dr. Meg Smart has a recipe – you would want the one for “early to moderate stage” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

There’s lots more you can do but you mentioned you have a budget so start with these and then if there’s more for other things you can add on as able–such as herbs that can be helpful.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Susan]

Hi, yes the starchy carbs Potatoes & peas would be causing the yeasty skin problems, I use Cortic-Ds 1% cream (Hydrocortisone acetate 10mg/g cream) from chemist & every night before Patch goes to sleep, that’s if he has red paws & red under chin & around bottom of his mouth…. I look at his paws & if they’re red I get cotton tip & put the Cortic-Ds 1% cream in between his toes & up his paw very lightly, then if Paws are still bad thru the day I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo…. Malaseb is excellent kills the bacteria on the skin I try & leave the Malaseb on Patches paws I put a face washer on the bath edge & lift his 2 front paws up on the bath edge & then massage his body in the Malaseb shampoo as long as I can, it says leave on for 10mins but 5 mins does the job if you have a dog that hates baths….I’ve been bathing every 5-7 days again now spring is here..

I’ve been cooking for Patch for Breakfast & Dinner, I’m looking at starting K-9Natural Freeze dried, you just add water or they have the Frozen raw, I’ve been giving the K-9 Natural “Green Lipped Mussel” snacks..
Can you feed a raw diet cause that’s the best, as soon as I started Patch on a raw diet all his skin problems went away in 3 days but Patch kept regurgitating the raw into mouth then swallowing it then he was having acid reflux from burping up the raw…I’m making Sauerkraut tomorrow, its a natural probiotic they need a healthy gut once they have more healthy stomach bacteria they wont have these yeasty skin problems as bad…. or Kefir if you can get some kefir for his stomach & get the healthy bacteria to take over….

[Julie J]

our Oes is now at the 1 year mark so many say stick with puppy food another group say dont feed large breed its a scam personally if it has the ingredients I dont care what the colour of the bag is …. NOW big question what is the ingredients .. Ive been told no to the Iams she came on vet switched to royal canine then told NO corn so put on petcurian was going good up till month ago and now she wont touch it ,,,, not sure if a bad bag or ?? she will eat other samples of From tried it as a test Im not a fan of fromm so …is there a simple answer ……. what is best to feed to an average Oes at 1 year old she is great body condition right now I dont want to mess with that she is on the smaller side but so was the parents 60-70 at full age so she is on target of that any help or suggestion would be really appreciated I need to get food into her besides the fresh raw veggies that she absolutely loves…

[Shawna]

Hi Bev A,

I don’t come on DFA, and especially the forums, that much any more so didn’t see your post. Betsy alerted me that you had asked me a question. Thanks Betsy!!

Probiotics and certain prebiotics do help lower BUN – even the Merck Vet Manual agrees “feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” Unfortunately it seems most vets don’t know this yet. 🙁 http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

How high is your baby girl’s creatinine? Creatinine is more indicative of how the kidneys are doing. BUN can be elevated for additional reasons besides the kidneys. Example — feeding kibble (even KD prescription kibble), while simultaneously not getting enough water, can increase BUN. Does she have unlimited access to water and does she drink often? If you are feeding KD kibble, I would HIGHLY recommend switching to Science Diet’s KD canned foods — they have three of them (one is egg based, one is chicken based and one is beef based). Mixing up the canned food could keep her eating better based on her history. IF her creatinin is on the low side of high AND you can get the BUN down by feeding canned food and giving probiotics/prebiotics, you can also consider adding some higher protein, lower phosphorus toppers to her food and see how she does. The Merck Vet Manual has some info on this too. “In addition, research in dogs is also showing that higher protein levels than what are typically used in most therapeutic renal diets is beneficial as long as the diets are phosphorus restricted. Energy should be supplied primarily via feeding relatively more digestible fat and carbohydrates.” As stated, most of the “energy” in the diet should be fats and appropriate carbs but adding the right kinds of protein can help as well as being more appealing. For now, while the BUN is high, don’t mess with adding anything with protein, including treats, to the diet. If she likes organic, extra virgin coconut oil you can add small amounts of that to each meal and blend it in well so she doesn’t pick it out. It won’t add to the BUN. Oh, and I do like raw goats milk.

Changing from a kibbled diet to a canned KD diet should help reduce BUN. Adding a GOOD quality probiotic (I like Primal Defense by Garden Of Life or the product at Mercola Healthy Pets website) and the right prebiotic can help further reduce BUN. Adding the wrong prebiotic (fermentable fiber is another term) can make things worse as they ferment in the wrong part of the digestive tract apparently. The product I found the most beneficial for my KD girl is called acacia fiber. NOW brand makes one. http://www.nowfoods.com/Acacia-Fiber-Organic-Powder-12oz.htm

If she’s never been on probiotics and prebiotics before then I would introduce them slowly over several weeks period. My Audrey was 9 pounds and I gave her 1/2 of a Primal Defense and 1/8 tsp of acacia fiber in her food as needed (when I noticed she seemed off). To start out I would give maybe 1/8 of the probiotic for a few days. Then continue that dose but add a pinch of the fiber for a few more days. Then increase the probiotic to 1/4 but leave fiber at 1/8 for a few more days. If you don’t see any symptoms you might be able to go a little quicker. If you do see symptoms you might want to decrease the amounts being given a bit. Given to quickly to dogs not used to them, probiotics can often have diarrhea as a symptom as an example.

Let me know if you have any more questions for me and let us know how things are going.

Good luck to you and your baby!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Coonhound Mama]

Coonhound Dad! 🙂
Glad to see another Coonhound parent on here. Curious as to what kind of Coonhound Maggie is and how long the pea-related carbohydrate problem went on before you solved the issue. We’ve got a rather itchy (no dandruff or any kind of large-scale discomfort) Bluetick and Treeing Walker mix who eats a partial raw and partial kibble diet (kibble containing pea protein).

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Ryan Y:
I’m new to raw feeding so I will stick to quoting the tried and true veterans of the field, but I do know that you have to be careful balancing phosphorous and calcium ratios as well as avoiding too much Vitamin A (often found in liver and fibrous carbohydrates like pumpkin). An older post in this forum written by Hound Dog Mom on the topic of Raw Feeding has a wonderful recipe she’s come up with (and also tested against AAFCO standards) that seems easy to make and is balanced as a full vitamin and mineral mix. Reminder that these are vitamins and minerals in their dietary form and not their tablet or pill form if that makes sense. I’ll post it here for you as I’ve copied it for my own use and don’t have time to hunt around for the original post!

Hound Dog Mom’s Whole Food Multi-Vitamin/Mineral Supplement (for her large dogs):

4 oz kelp powder
4 oz alfalfa powder
4 oz wheatgrass powder
4 oz spirulina powder
4 oz chlorella powder
4 oz bee pollen powder
4 oz turmeric powder
2 oz garlic powder

I know she also uses apple cider vinegar, cod liver oil, Himalayan crystal salt, calcium citrate, coconut oil and various mixed tocopherols tocotrienols in her dogs’ diet, but these would vary with dog size, age, weight and of course the other food items being fed at the time. Again, if you look through the forums, you should be able to find some of her outstanding dietary advice.

[pugmomsandy]

Have you looked into CarnivoreRaw by Young Again Pet Food? It is a powder and you add oil to make a complete meal. You could also add about 20% of your own choice of veggies.

[Jenn H]

Doesn’t sound like you were implying THK wasn’t good. Sounds it just isn’t good for your dog.
Have you asked THK if they have made any changes to the formula or suppliers. Sometimes the most minor changes can be a big deal to some dogs.

Have you tried giving your dog pure pumpkin when they have diarrhea and when changing foods? Goat milk (raw if you can get it or THK has some) or some kind of probiotics also works well for runny butts.

[InkedMarie]

About as close as I’ll come is making sure they have (their ground raw) turkey LOL

[anonymously]

Glad you were able to get a refund. However, it is not unusual to see undigested carrot pieces in dog feces. One of my dogs had weight issues, she loved to eat, so I would give her a raw carrot as a snack midday. They were bright orange and appeared undigested in her bms…the good news is that they otherwise agreed with her and were low in calories.

[weezerweeks]

Natures variety instinct had a recall in July but Oi think it was on raw. I don’t buy anything from companies that’s had a recall. That’s just the way I feel. Too many other foods out there.

[Michelle H]

I would like to see a review of this by Dog Food Advisor too!

My 13 year old Shih Tzu has allergies to a whole slew of things (chicken, turkey, sweet potato, potato, venison, beef, alfalfa, dust, ragweed pollen, grass, possibly lamb….ugh). This has made feeding her particularly challenging. We had resorted to buying ground raw quail or rabbit from a local “pet food deli”. But it is a 45 minute drive each way; which results in us choosing to buy a LOT of food and freezer storage for it. It also results in us adding supplements and “safe” veggies without knowing if we’re getting the ratios right, etc.

SO….I was pleasantly surprised when I saw Cocolicious Wild Caught Salmon & Pork by Party Animal. I bought a case from Chewy and she has been eating for about 2 weeks. She likes it (but she generally likes most food) and so far I don’t see any allergy reactions. (Hooray!)

How does one request a review from the editor?

[Coonhound Mama]

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is expensive stuff at 5 dollars per can, but it’s really excellent quality. You can read reviews of it on here and most all are 5 stars with the exception of just a few that are 4.5 stars. I’d definitely look into it if you can afford it, as the ingredient list is clean and simple and most lines offer a single protein source per can.

[Coonhound Mama]

Nature’s Variety Instinct makes great canned food, but it is five dollars per can which can get expensive when you’re feeding a larger breed dog. My 60 pound girl will eat half a can once a day to make it stretch with a variety of kibble, raw and ground premixes. Nice quality food though if you can afford it.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[C4D]

Hi Vicky T,

I’m sorry that you’re vet didn’t sound very helpful. Mine was adamant about using the Sub-Q’s and giving famotadine (Pepcid AC) to help with the metabolic acidosis that is a part of kidney disease. That’s the reason he doesn’t want to eat. Imagine trying to eat when you have terrible acid indigestion. It’s generally given 1/2 hour before feeding. You also need to bind the phosphorus with the meal. That’s the reason for the calcium, whether is a natural source (ground eggshell) or premade (i.e. epakitin).

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html

Here’s the link, from the dogaware site I linked above, that contains the table of phosphorus content of various proteins. Since she is in moderate kidney failure, I would stay with muscle meat. Canned Salmon and Mackerel are very high in phosphorus compared to many other protein sources. The kidney and liver are as well. By comparison raw green tripe (you can find these in some dog stores as frozen). Do not use the bleached white tripe found in the grocery store for people.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html

[Vicky T]

P.S. He is not on any prescription food and wouldn’t eat it if he was
The vet did not recommend anything other than the sub q saline treatments.
When I asked him if there was any meds he could prescribe he said yes but that none would help that much, so we’re kind of on our own helping our little guy feel comfortable.

Prior to being diagnosed he was on a high quality grain free kibble (wetted with water) mixed with a grain free canned dog food but he started refusing to eat that so I’ve been feeding him people food like eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon and mackerel, chicken and venison. He also likes cooked and raw carrots.
I have some dog probiotics I’ve been giving him and the supplement he’s on is:
Pet Wellbeing Kidney Support Gold…just something I found on the internet.

I will have to look into the homemade kidney disease diet ASAP.

[Carrie K]

I would not be giving a dog human broth, it contains waaaay too much sodium and can also contain onions and other ingredients that are not healthy and unsafe for dogs. Dogs also do not need tomato, remember dogs are not little omnivore people they are carnivores! If you really want to make a safe broth I would look up how to make dog safe bone broth.

I add fresh raw meat to kibble, despite the militant raw feeders rumors spreading false information around this is NOT dangerous, just that some dogs stomachs don’t handle it well but I do it with four dogs and they are all gleamingly healthy. Cooking takes out all the nutritional content.

As far as kibble goes it’s just a matter of experimentation, my male GSD can’t tolerate anything with chicken or grains, we rotate between several brands every bag.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Carrie K.

[Christine H]

I also have ordered from Petflow. I must say, I am grateful the credit card companies refund our money when businesses such as this one defunct on their part of the sale. It’s just that it is a drawn out process. It takes weeks before there is a conclusion. Personally I am very much interested in what has happened with them, disappearing off the grid like that… I believe Doggiefood.com was not receiving products from the companies they were distributing for. Many of their items were out of stock for extended periods of time. One dehydrated brand that I really liked was totally taken out of the brands they had listed. I actually called the company and all they would say to me was that doggiefood was out of stock of their food and that I could purchase it from the other online pet food stores. I wouldn’t care if they decided to close their doors, just bothered with the way they did it,
still taking orders, consumers money, with no intentions of sending the product.

[InkedMarie]

CM: yes, Reel Raw Dog has necks!! Definitely do the turkey necks! Nice to “meet” you too!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi all,

I’d be curious to hear more input regarding what the original poster Ella S included about feeding a tablespoon each of plain nonfat Greek yogurt and canned pumpkin per day. Are there any risks involved in this? I have a 60 lb dog so I don’t think a tablespoon would make much of a difference, but I am concerned that this might be a bit too much Vitamin A in the long run. She’s currently transitioning to raw and suffers from slightly mushy poo, so I add it in to aid in digestion and to help keep bowel movements regular. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Jonathan S]

I had that worry the first time I gave turkey necks… my boys swallowed them in big chunks, though luckily there were no problems. I tried giving bigger, solid bones, like lamb shanks, but the amount of fat bothered them a bit.

My solution has been to incorporate ground meats that include bones in their raw diet… specifically ground duck and turkey necks, ground chicken backs, and ground bone it rabbit. I also leave the big, cow femur sections for them to gnaw on during the day.

Hope that helps!

[Coonhound Mama]

I’m a new raw feeder and this worries me, too. My dog is a recently adopted 5 year old coonhound who has been eating kibble her entire life until now. For this reason I started her out on bone, organ and meat grinds until her system adjusts. If you think your dog is a gulper, I would definitely try grinds first. Also, it can be helpful from what I have read to start your dog who is new to edible bones on larger bones that are as big as their own head size to discourage and avoid swallowing a piece that could cause blockages. Good luck!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi InkedMarie,

Thanks for your response and congratulations on the new puppy! I am located in Old Orchard Beach, Maine. Just moved here a year ago so I’m trying to find some places nearby that will be cost effective. Thanks for sharing your advice regarding Reel Raw. I have read some other reviews that have noted the noticeably higher fat percentage, so I think for now we will stick with Hare Today. Our pup is a 5 year old shelter dog whom we’ve only had for three months, so for right now we are still doing a slow transition to raw. She’s been kibble fed her whole life! We’ve started out on the bone, organ and meat grinds which seems to be going very well. If I can muster up enough courage to start her on some edible bones (other than recreational bones) I will certainly take your advice and try the beef rib bones!

[InkedMarie]

Hello CM!
I use mostly Hare Today; I prefer their products. I do use some Reel Raw too. I use grinds, they’re a little fattier than Hare’s. My older two dogs (we just got a puppy last week) do just fine on their grinds. I buy the ten pounders, defrost then repackge but not in the summer (I hate defrosting when it’s warm). I love their beef rib bones too!
Give them a try! Where in Maine are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Inked Marie,

I’m new to the forums so I apologize for trolling an older post of yours! I was hoping you’d see this as I’ve been reading your posts for awhile now and I’ve noticed you’re located in New England. Any reviews or advice you could offer on how Reel Raw is working for you and your dogs? I am located in Maine so picking somewhere local to source my raw goodies would be absolutely ideal. Currently we shop through Hare Today which is incredible but I would like to move things more local. Thanks again and I hope to hear from you.
-Coonhound Mama

[Coonhound Mama]

Hello all!

I’m a new raw feeder and although I’ve done loads of research on here, in books and around the wide web, I’m still at a loss for how to keep my girl at a proper weight. When we adopted her she was 62 pounds and has swiftly gone down to 57 despite calorie counting and a medium-level fat diet. She is very active (1-2 hours of vigorous cardio per day) and we have a hard time keeping weight on her despite plenty of healthy fats and a partial kibble diet (she’s a 5 year old rescue new to us as of 3 months ago, so we are transitioning slowly).

If anyone has similar experience with large breed athletic dogs and keeping weight on them healthily, please feel free to respond as I am looking for some advice.

[Jenn H]

The common factors of those cases were all dogs were fed Fromm and many acquired a bacteria. That’s more than a coincidence to me. The fact that not all dogs got/get sick from that brand could be for a variety of reasons: individual dog has enough of good bacteria to not be affected, size of dog, certain probios it may be given, general health, recent antibiotic treatment, hospitalization…
While there are too many unknowns to blame the food, the coincidences are enough for me to avoid it for now. I have an adult GSD that has been thru 2 tx of a/b for Lyme and a puppy. I feel their immune systems are not strong/developed enough to take on a stubborn bacterium like C.diff.
I certainly can’t completely protect them from the bacterium short of putting them in a bubble, I can avoid potential/suspected things that may have spores.
C.diff can be anywhere. It’s passed on from feces and easily spread to surfaces, objects and food if the infected person doesn’t wash their hands. It’s also in soil, air, water, food (especially meat). The spores can survive weeks to months.
For now anyway I am going to choose another food for their rotation and continue with the raw goat milk in order to hopefully continue to arm them with plenty of good bacteria and build strong immune systems.
I may eventually feed them Fromm in the future, but I cannot take any risks like that right now.

If the company isn’t aware of these cases I wouldn’t expect them to recall anything. I’m not sure how many of the complainants and vets notified them. That’s a disservice to Fromm. I’m sure they would want to know and investigate. Not having this info doesn’t give them an opportunity to remedy any problems that may exist or rebut the claims. This leaves consumers like me who can’t have dogs that can’t afford an infection to steer clear just in case.
Communication is key to keep everyone in the know, honest, accountable, protected and help them improve a product. It doesn’t do much good overall to leave a bad review on a site, but not tell the source about their issues.

[anonymously]

I stopped feeding my dogs raw bones after we ended up at the emergency vet x2 for GI blockages.

Give a Dog a Bone (Not!)–FDA warns of dangers of feeding bones to dogs

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet
Also, check the search engine here, example /forums/topic/rectal-issues/

[Margaret J]

I have a 45 lbs australian cattle dog and I fed him his first chicken foot last night. He did some crunching and chewing and then happily swallowed the foot whole with much of the bones still intact. One section of bone was large enough that he appeared struggle for a moment to swallow it but since then has appeared to be fine.

How concerned should I be about how well his raw bones are chewed? He does know how to chew his food and did chew the chicken foot some but I’m still anxious about the size of the bones he’s ingesting. Or maybe I’m being overly anxious and should just trust him and his body to know what to do with those raw bones?

Thanks for any help and input

[Jenn H]

I have to say that raw unpasteurized goat milk has been a lifesaver. I wish I knew about it years ago. It’s considered a super food. And I never really thought it was all that it was cracked up to be until I had was so desperate for anything to work in a particular situation.
If you have a certified organic farmer that sells it near you or at a farmer’s market get it. That’s the least expensive.
If you can’t find it locally try a small mom & pop pet store that sells raw diets. That’s where I end up getting it most of the time. My store sells Primal brand.
Online you can try The Honest Kitchen Pro Bloom. It’s dehydrated. More reasonably priced than Primal.
If you look on the Answers website they have tons of info & links about the million benefits of raw goat milk.
Like I said I didn’t believe it til I tried it. Now I swear by it. Since giving it to my dog with Lyme she hasn’t needed any anti-inflammatory drugs and her stomach didn’t get upset from the antibiotic this time.
The puppy has been having diarrhea off & on for some unknown reason. Since giving it to him daily no more diarrhea.
Every morning about 20-30 min before breakfast I give them pure pumpkin mixed with raw goat milk.
It has been a miracle. I really can’t say enough about it. I suggest trying that before spending a ton of money on nutritionists. I really think you’ll find improvement pretty quickly.

[Vicki K]

Thanks, pugsmomsandy. Yes, I already give probiotics. Ours is a 4mo GR 26#s. She handles raw just fine. May try slippery elm which helped while weening.

[pugmomsandy]

Probiotics and digestive enzymes. Also, you might try feeding just a little less since it doesn’t sound like he’s processing the food very well. My 5 lb pup used to be able to clear a room but now he eats anything, even raw eggs, and no gas.

[Jenn H]

My favorite pro-bio was Wysong. It came in a little bottle w/ a pump. It is very expensive though.
In a pinch I use Nutri-vet food transition packets. You can get it at PetCo. Also works well.
My all time favorite now is raw, unpasteurized goat milk. Only takes 20 min to digest and they absolutely love it. Can’t get enough. (I personally think it’s the nastiest stuff, but it’s not about me.)
I also give them pure pumpkin & bananas. They love that too. Bananas are a very good prebiotic.
If you’re insistent on vegan I guess the raw goat milk won’t be OK for you though.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.

[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[C4D]

Hi Michael S,

it’s been a while since you posted, but these links might help. Generally organ meat, even in raw feeding, should be no more than 10 % of the total diet and liver only 5%. I find it’s a bit too rich to use alone, so I often mix with lung and fresh cooked muscle meat. I have large dogs, Labs, and tend to keep the treats slightly bigger than a pea. It’s easy to nibble, get back quickly to training, and keeps them interested in more since they don’t get full.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-organ-meat-is-important-for-the-raw-fed-dog/

http://dogaware.com/diet/treats.html

George B,

I generally don’t treat for potty breaks, but you could apply the above information if you use treats. And treats, even good ones, shouldn’t be more than 10% of the total diet. I foster and find that crate training is very effective in potty training, especially in the beginning. Good luck with your pup!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by C4D.