[Amelia Z]

YEAH!!!! THANK GOD!! I am so glad for you. I was thinking about you guys all day. What a sigh of relief. Now you can sleep in peace! Did you tell her you switched foods already? Any followup with her needed? Don’t you hate when they talk to you like you are an idiot. Did you like her? So now you have to find a new vet. So when he is tested next time, tell them to do whole blood and taurine. Or will they do it there? My cardiologist does it, but I chose to have my vet draw it ($25) and I sent it directly to UC Davis ($151). The cardiologist wanted $289 and she was sending it to UC Davis anyway.
You know, they all say switch to grain free. I don’t believe that really is the correct thing. It is the legumes and/or potatoes that cause the problem (and that’s not 100% yet) So If you find a food that is still grain free and legumes/potato free it should be good. I don’t believe it is the grains that are helping this problem but rather the legumes that is absorbing the taurine. And aside from that, the FDA webinar form 9-4, they stated that there are more dogs getting DCM that are NOT taurine deficient than are. I noticed that on the taurine deficient facebook page. Are you on the page? They have a spreadsheet of hundreds of dogs. I studied it for hours and could see no common denominator. I am a good example of that. Both my dogs have low taurine, fed the same food and one has DCM and one doesn’t. I really think they are going nuts over this without enough conclusive evidence.
But in Auggie’s case, it was the low taurine and hopefully his heart will continue to shrink and be 100% normal.
BTW, I don’t think you mentioned how old your boy is and what breed and his name??
I did email the moderator to see if we can email directly but haven’t heard back yet. I’ll let you know. TAKE CARE & PARTY TONIGHT!!!!

[Susan]

Hi Rose,

If you want to continue feeding an Australian made pet food, then have a look at

“Stay Loyal”
Formulated For Slow… Steady… Optimal Growth, Not Maximal Growth!
https://stayloyal.com.au/large-breed-puppy-grain-free-dog-food.html

“Meals For Mutts”
https://www.mealsformutts.com.au/products/

“LifeWise”

Kangaroo

“Vetalogia”
Vetalogica Naturals Grain Free Dog Food

“Frontier Pets” Freeze Dried, Free Range, Organic, human grade dehydrated raw.
https://frontierpets.com.au/

“Proudi”
http://www.proudi.com/

[2doodlemom]

Thank you all so much for your ideas and suggestions. This forum is a wealth of information. Many of your ideas I have tried and either they didn’t work or nothing changed. My next step is back to the Vet with a round of blood test to see what we can find out and then most likely the scope if the Vey thinks its IBS or IBD and need more info on it.

My main problem is how to get him to gain weight? If we try another diet , how to get him to eat? The things we have tried are:
Different dry kibble
Raw diet
ELIMINATION diet
Ground Beef
CHICKEN
lamb
Freshly cooked food
Pumpkin
Different probiotics
Stool test
Kibble toppers
Rawables
So far the only kibble he will eat is Farmina. Won’t touch many kibble. Won’t eat anything with fish. Doesn’t like ground beef. He is on a probiotic every day. Fortiflora.

[Hav mom]

I use the Safe Pet Treats program. Yesterday I received an alert for STEVES REAL FOOD recal which affects limited quantities of its raw frozen do and Quest ct food due to possible contamination with Salmonella dnd Listeria bacteria. Recalled products are: Steve’s Real Food Turducken Recipe Quest EMu Diet, Quest Beef Diet. Then today, another recall notice
was sent to me regarding BRAVO PACKING DOG FOOD. They recalled all Performance Dog
Products, a frozen raw pet food because it has the potential to be contaminated with Salmonella. The 2 & 5# Plastic Sleeves. What is going on, lots of recalls lately…If you know anyone who uses these premium foods, please let them know.

[Susan]

Hi Rose,
you in Australia hello,

I would NOT FEED “Black Hawk” change it ASAP,
Black Hawk has been sold 4 times now & is no longer a family owned business it owned by Marster Pet Food in NZ & its made at the Dubbo Plant where “The Real Pet Food Company” makes all their bad cheap pet foods, The Real Pet food Company makes Baxters Woolworths generic brand, Baxter has been killing dogs since 2017 – 2018 last sick dog was 3 weeks ago Baxter wet can food go onto “The Australian Pet Reviews” site & his Face Book page, follow him & he tells us when Pet Food companies are getting heaps of complaints dying & sick dogs, look up Black Hawk on the “Australian Pet Food Reviews” site read all the people complaints, even Ivory Coat was sold Chinese bought 2017 Ivory Coat no longer family owned & its also made at the Dubbo Plant now…
Change his food this vet should of put your pup either on a vet diet or another brand dog food that’s the first thing you do when a dog keeps having diarrhea…

He shouldnt be on antibiotic for too long, have you tried “Protexin” yellow label probiotic Powder or I buy the “Yakult” pink Probiotic drink sold at Coles or Woolworths you get a 5 pack they’re in the fridge section, give your dog 1/2 a Yakult a day inbeween feeds, as he grows give him 1 yakult daily inbetween meals..
Probiotics are best taken on empty stomach..

Have a look at the Prime SKD rolls sold at Pet Barn in fridge section, there’s Crocodile & Tapioca, Kangaroo & Pumkin or Kangaroo & Potato..
Have you tried a raw or cooked diet & use “NAS Digestavite Plus Powder” to balance the dogs diet? instead of dry dog food?
https://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/product/digestavite-plus/

I DO NOT buy any Australian made pet foods NO more our Pet Food Companies are self regulated so anyone in Australia can make a pet food & do what they want, NO Recalls nothing, but when a pet food comes from Overseas, USA these Pet Food company MUST obey really strict laws, they have to prove where their meats are being sourced from etc to come into our country..but when a pet food is made in Australia these Australian Pet Food Companies do not need to do anything 🙁
We are trying to change our laws after over 100 dogs died after eating Advance Dermocare Nov 2017 – April 2018, there’s an senate inquiry about Australian pet foods at the moment..
Here’s a video, Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals
after we had blue red pink plastic thru Applaws dog & cat food…. after you watch this you wont want to feed any dry pet foods..
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958

Look at “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Grain Free has potato Potato & Sweet potato firms the poo or “Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Adult” has grains only sold Pet Barn store or Pet Barn Online store, shop online its cheaper & press Click & Collect & pick up from your nearest Pet Barn store, its cheaper to shop Pet Barns online store then buy Wellness from the pet barn store, these always sales online, join Pet Barns “Friends for Life” & get $10 off first order, free bath, free vet visit etc

If you want to fed a grain dry kibble then look at
“Eagle Pack” Large/Gaint Breed formula Eagle Pack is sold online Bomarang Pet Foods http://www.boomerangpetfood.com.au/eagle-pack-large-and-giant-breed-puppy-13-6kg/

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult, is formulated for large breed “stomach & bowel”, not to cause bloat, it has easy to digest ingredients, it’s high in Protein-34%, Low/med fat-13%, low kcals 345 per cup…
Wellness also has Probiotics to help stop diarrhea then reduce antibiotics after he is eating the Wellness Core Large Breed formula for 2 weeks.

[Susan]

Hi Doodlemom,
Sounds like your doodle is suffering from Stomach/Bowel problems = IBS….
later on as he ages may turn into IBD if he isnt treated when he is young…
When you were at the vets did the vet recommend to feed one of their Digestive Health vet diet??
I have a rescued dog who I rescued age 4yrs old he suffers with IBD now, I’d say when he was a pup he suffered with similar health problems like your Doodle has, then as he aged it turned to IBD….If you have the money I’d see a vet who specializes in IBD, there’s a good f/b group called “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
I would change his diet, the Farmina Puppy food with lamb diet might be too rich for him or an ingredient isnt agreeing with him??
Have a look at “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult, very easy to digest, high protein-34% low/med fat-13%, low in Kcals-345per cup, formulated for large breeds digestive tract, my boy has “FINALLY” gain weight, after years of struggling to keep his weight on, he does firm poos every day, stopped his vomiting…. It’s worth a try then if your Doodle doesn’t gain weight I’d see a vet that knows alot about Intestinal problems & take it from there..
Im wondering does he suffer with food sensitivities?? My boy does this is when the Hypoallergenic vet diets are really good to work out what your dog might be sensitive too & do a food elimintion diet…
Patch did a vet diet elimination diet, then we did a raw diet elimination diet a few years later when Patch saw a Nutritionist 2015….
Patch ended up having Endoscope + Biopsies 2013 & again Jan 2018 to work out what was wrong again?? the Biopsies tell the vet so much information that cant been seen thru Ultra Scan, Xrays & blood test..

[Susan]

Hi Doodlemom,
Sounds like your doodle is suffering from Stomach/Bowel problems = IBS….
later on as he ages may turn into IBD if he isnt treated when he is young…
When you were at the vets did the vet recommend to feed one of their Digestive Health vet diet??
I have a rescued dog who I rescued age 4yrs old he suffers with IBD now, I’d say when he was a pup he suffered with similar health problems like your Doodle has, then as he aged it turned to IBD….If you have the money I’d see a vet who specializes in IBD, theer’s a good f/b group called “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/

I would change his diet, the Farmina Puppy food with lamb diet might be too rich for him or an ingredient isnt agreeing with him??
Have a look at “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult, very easy to digest, high protein-34% low/med fat-13%, low in Kcals-345per cup, formulated for large breeds digestive tract, my boy has “FINALLY” gain weight, after years of struggling to keep his weight on, he does firm poos every day, stopped his vomiting…. It’s worth a try then if your Doodle doesn’t gain weight I’d see a vet that knows alot about Intestinal problems & take it from there..
Im wondering does he suffer with food sensitivities?? My boy does this is when the Hypoallergenic vet diets are really good to work out what your dog might be sensitive too & do a food elimintion diet…
Patch did a vet diet elimination diet, then we did a raw diet elimination diet a few years later when Patch saw a Nutritionist 2015….
Patch ended up having Endoscope + Biopsies 2013 & again Jan 2018 to work out what was wrong again?? the Biopsies tell the vet so much information that cant been seen thru Ultra Scan, Xrays & blood test..
Something is wrong with your boy..

[Susan]

Hi Clarie,
AM, English Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Pitbulls are prone to environment allergies & food sensitivities, my Patch suffers with both…. Patches vet said normally when a dog suffers with Environemnt allergies the dog will also suffer with food sensitivities…
I tried all the Vet diets for Patch, Hills Z/D, Hills Potato & Venison & Royal Canine HP & they seem to make Patch paws worst & the Hills Z/d made his skin & paw smell real yeasty… In the end I did a raw elimination diet, Kangaroo & blended green vegetables/fruit, Broccoli, Celery & Apple within 3 days no more smelly yeasty skin & paws.. I added raw chicken for dinner within 20mins of eating teh raw chicken 1 of Patches back paws went red hot & itchy he wouldnt stop licking it, I had to put an ice pack on his back paw….Have you tried doing a raw elimination diet?

Another thing I do with his paws I buy the Huggies Cucumber & Aloe baby Wipes & I wipe his paws & body down after he goes on a walk & when he’s been outside, I also apply creams “Sudocrem” works really well, I apply Sudocrem before he goes outside of a morning & the thick Sudocrem acts as a barrier & protects his paws from outdoor allergens then before he goes to bed at night I wipe his paws down with the Cucumber & Aloe wipes then I apply the Sudocrem on his paws & inbetween his toes with a cotten tip if they’re red.. You can buy Sudocrem from Amazon I also use “Bepanthen” Antiseptic Soothing cream when he gets a grass rash on his stomach & around his doodle, he goes outside & rubs his stomach & on the grass making his rash worse the Bepanthen cream is excellent works straight awa takes away the itch & redness.. look in you baby section at Supermarket for baby wipes & cream….
Patch has licked these creams & he’s still here they didnt make him sick 🙂 thats why best to apply creams at night before bed they also have a better sleep..

[Linda K]

Yay Kodi! You ROCK, Buddy! Your mom knew you were fine. Amelia, I’m breathing a huge sigh of relief now, but I just KNEW he was fine. Huge happy HIGH FIVES to you and your boys!

I called the vet’s office today and asked if I could please get a whole blood taurine test. The vet tech LAUGHED and asked why I wanted that. I said there is a vet in California who is doing a study on taurine levels in golden retrievers, and he suggests that the whole blood be done. She laughed uproariously and said, “May I remind you that you don’t have a golden retriever?” I told her that wouldn’t be necessary because I am well aware of my dog’s breed. Then I asked if I could please either be in the room when he has his echo, or wait in the waiting room to get an immediate opinion from the cardiologist about my boy’s heart size. She said she “doesn’t know how that would be possible,” that he brings his own techs, and my vet’s techs are only in the room occasionally to “help hold them down.” (!) I told her I would like her to ask him if he could just tell me if his heart is enlarged or not. She responded that she would not ask him that because she “knew the answer.” I told her I thought the time between the initial blood draw (August 15) and the time I finally get any info on my dog’s condition (September 21) is inhumane. She just kinda reprimanded me for “being so impatient,” and said my vet would answer all my questions when he calls me with the report. I have decided to call the university tomorrow to see if I have to have a referral from my vet to see the cardiologist there. If not, I plan to see how soon my boy can see him there. It’s only about an hour’s drive from my home, and if I can get in and out before 9/21, it’s worth it. Meanwhile, I am on a hunt for a new vet….

My dog does indeed love the new food. I’m introducing it very very slowly. He weighs 45 pounds, and I’m so OCD that I actually count the pieces of food I mix with his Zignature Zssentials with each meal. I have a written schedule of when the quantity of new food increases every four days. I live in terror that he’ll start throwing it up, but I really don’t think he will. This is good stuff! Thank you again so very much!

Thank you for the update on Kodi! I thought about him all afternoon, and I was eager to hear. Great, great news!

[anonymous]

Here is the article I was attempting to link to:
Mar 01, 2013
By Alice M. Jeromin, RPh, DVM, DACVD
DVM360 MAGAZINE
Excerpt from above article below, unable to provide direct link, if you google DMV360 MAGAZINE and then search “dust mites” at the search engine at that site it will take you to the full article.
Where are storage mites commonly found?
These particular mites (Tyrophagus putrescentiae, Lepidoglyphus destructor, Acarus siro) are present in dry foods, cereals, grains, straw and cheese—i.e., substances that can get moldy. Like dust mites, storage mites can cause nonseasonal signs, including pruritus, erythema and recurrent otitis in dogs and cats. They’re well-known in humans for causing asthma and allergic rhinitis (“baker’s lung”).
Data have shown that storage mites live in conjunction with house dust mites and can be found in bedding, mattresses, upholstered furniture and fabrics. One study in humans found storage mites to have overtaken dust mites as a leading source of allergy.
A popular misconception is that storage mites are present in bags of food or cereals from the manufacturer. In one study, out of 10 bags of dry dog food, one was found to have storage mites, but the rest developed the mites after being in the owners’ homes.

[Claire B]

Thank you for the response. We switch exclusively between the turkey/sardine and duck and I have not noticed any changes on the ones we get purchasing at two different stores. We are having to stay away from anything with rabbit, venison or kangaroo in it as we may have to do a food trial with our boy and he has never had those. He can’t have pork, beef or chicken at the moment. Even eating 20 percent combined with zignature we go through about 3-4 large bags of Primal a month and my husband can’t stomach the raw patties. The Primal has been a life saver for us as he has a high scoring storage mite allergy confirmed by testing and we are having to freeze his kibble as soon as we open bag. He quit eating it entirely until we added it. We will looking into other options entirely once we determine if he also has a food allergy involved.

[Patricia A]

Primal didn’t even put my question on their F/B page. I don’t like that. guess they want only positive posts. I just purchased the turkey/Sardine at my pet supply store but seems fresh and no oily smell. Breaks up very dry like it always did with this protein. I always leaned more towards Primal then Stella’s. I use their rabbit but it’s kind of spongy to break up. I worry that Stella’s is too gimmicky. Also got the boxed response regarding their kibble and FDA report . Advisor gave it 5 stars stating “abundance of meat But their 2nd ingredient is peas then chickpeas. I still don’t understand how advisor knows how much protein is coming from legumes and how much from meat. Going to call Stella’s but don’t think I’ll get a breakdown.
I don’t want to keep switching them so I’ll have to trust Primal and Stella’s. I also give a little Bixbi Rawbble. Very expensive but they like it dry as a treat. I’m just going to rotate the three to be safe.

[Susan]

Hi Dendad,
What I noticed in the Taurine Test Result document that is in the Files of the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy” f/b group, all the dogs ate the same dog food 6months, some 1yr, their owners NEVER rotated their diet & feed them different brands….some owners added toppers like sardines, raw meats, eggs can food etc these foods didn’t seem to help some dogs, where some dogs who had toppers added to their dry diet their test results came back normal ??….

I recommend change your dog dry foods with the Seasons, so Spring has just sprung in Australia, if in American Autumn has begun, time to change your dogs food also your dog will love something new, something different, slowley introduce new food over 7-10 days with their old food…
If your dog has just been eating Freshpet more them 3-6months then look for another food if you’re looking for a dry foods make sure they have has at least 3 meat proteins, meat meals (Chicken meal, Chicken, Turkey, Turkey Meal, Lamb, Lamb Meal etc) as 1st 2nd 3rd ingredient, no high protein starchy carbs like Legumes in the first 5 ingredients…

It’s not only grain free foods that have caused heart problems, Lamb & Rice, Chicken Meal & Rice formula’s have come up in a study that was done when reversible taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy occurred in five related golden retrievers, they ate
Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
Eukanuba Adult Maintenance Formula Chicken;
Hill’s Science Diet Canine Senior Chicken;
Eukanuba Natural Lamb & Rice Formula;
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0&preview=GoldenRetriever_Taurine_DCM.pdf

When you rotate with a Grain free & grain formula’s make sure there’s more meat proteins then starchy plant proteins…these pet companies have gotten gready & have replace the meat proteins with more starchy plant proteins to up the protein % & more money for the pet food companies…

Don’t feed a grain formula that has ingredients like this
Chicken, Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, then “Chicken Meal”.
The Chicken meal is the 6th ingredient, this Hills dry formula has more starchy carbs, then meat proteins, I wonder if the Chicken meal was either 1st or 2nd ingredients followed by chicken ingredient, would this dry grain formula still have cause Left ventricular function at low end of normal, with a 2 yr old Golden Retriever & a 4yr old Golden Retriever?? again these 2 dogs were feed same food or 6-12mths owner never rotated their foods….

This is everything I am observing..

[tk h]

instinct dog food raw. its expensive though . also check out “taste of the wild puppy ”

i used to buy Castor & Pollux when i was living in the usa . too bad i dont have it here so i switched to taste of the wild . in any case stay away from royal canin .

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by tk h.

[Dennis T]

Yes I think I’ll definitely ask that group about it. That one document that shows the taurine levels of dogs on certain is interesting (Acana was not looking good!). I scrolled to the Canidae part and some of theirs wasn’t good either but I noticed their Grain Free Pure Sea limited ingredient diet seemed to be just fine on that list. It wasn’t highlighted in yellow or anything. This confused me because the ingredients in that food does contain peas etc. If the fish formulas for some reason are okay, I might try to get my girl on the newest formula of Canidae (Grain Free Ancestral Raw Coated Fish). However, I’m still cautious and waiting for some more info.

[Glanton]

Hello peeps,

I have my dog on a home prepared raw det and am interested in opinions. I don’t want to overcomplicate yet don’t want anything missing either.

So her core diet is made of about 60% meat. She gets fish (typically pollock or basa due to economy four to five days and lean beef two to three days.

Every day for the other 40% she gets about and even split between beef organ meat made up of liver, lung, heart, and green tripe, and beef rib bones.

Every other day she gets a raw egg mixed in, and on opposite days she gets a few whole sardines (frozen, thawed) I also mix a bit of cooked sweet potato each day – no t much, but just to provide a bit of fibre.

She is allergic to both chicken and pork.

Any feedback and opinions are appreciated, thank you so much!

[Susan]

*Acana had 16 of their formula’s on the Low Taurine list & again the dogs just ate the same dry Acana food more then 1yr

*Fromm had 12 different formula’s that affected dogs Taurine levels & people are stopping their good dog foods & changing over to Fromm fomula’s.. 🙁
I notice these dogs who tested Low in Taurine were feed the SAME diet more then 6months over 1 yr..

*4Health had 4 of their forumla’s on the list

*Zignature had 3 formula’s (I think)

*Canidae had 3 of their formula’s where dogs tested low in Taurine, Chicken & Rice formula, All Life Stages grain formula & Pure Sky formula, then there were dogs that ate Canidae formula’s & they were “Fine” 1 owner added raw Turkey, eggs & cottage Cheese & his Taurine test came back fine, so this is telling me this is genetics…

I notice these dogs test that were Low Taurine were feed the “SAME” diet more then 6months, some more then 1 yr..

If you have a breed that is predisposed to heart problems, then I’d take your dog to see a vet & have a blood test done & take it from there, others that dont have a breed that’s prone to heart problems just keep feeding what you’re feeding & rotate & change brands with the seasons, don’t feed the same dry kibble more then 4months & dont Stress out….

Here’s the Taurine list.. you might need to be on f/b for it to work..

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/2018-09-01%20Copy%20of%20Diet%20and%20Taurine%20Table.pdf?token=AWw34aBaca80R1PN-JJjiCu8YfP-Y_smfi4dMbEHiWCP-2XqM6C2nzYbmp0Qy8aEywUU1l4Oh4mH_6hQ8I9uTspCfOA6N4MVOyQ6Hsuj4wEb6d3QodPL57e1o-J9Nfh3ywUnQmmLEBnXEiK5K2e5WPjdKZlJhytf6y5_a_wOWQh1BQ

Here’s the “Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy”f/b group then the Taurine list is in their “Files” Dr Stern gives some good advice..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1952593284998859/

[Dennis T]

Hi Crazy4cats!

Thank you too for your advice! I actually commented on that article as well haha. Canidae has normally been a pretty good brand though I did take note of the taurine levels. It appears some of their formulas were okay though, unless I’m reading the table wrong. This new formula is unknown however, but it’s ingredients have more meat than their other formulas, perhaps it might be better? I’ve never really heard of dogs eating Quail, guinea fowl or pheasant though so I’m not sure how beneficial they are as far as nutrition goes. Their Fish formula raw coated perhaps might be better than the poultry/meat? I’m not sure 🙁

Thank you for your well wishes too!!

[Dennis T]

Thank you for the link! I’ve been reading up on a few articles on this issue but my head right now is all jumbled so it’s still making me overthink. My dog is an American Staffordshire mixed with Dalmation. However, she’s allergic to Pork so I would not think the Canidae Red Meat ancestral would do well for her. One issue with these new formulas is that they are still new and we dont have much info on them. The idea of raw coated kibble sounds interesting though, and my dog is definitely a sniffer (smells food and either walks away or eats). The Avian and Fish formulas seem to be a hit with people on Chewy and it seems like they are filled with meat, however, Idk, I’m just so cautious now.

Thank you for your tips too!

[Susan]

Hi Dennis,
What breed is your dog??
Read this
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/07/09/link-between-dog-food-taurine-deficiency-and-dcm.aspx

In Australia we have not been warned about Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) nothing has been mentioned & no one seems to care…
I think its cause we are not getting the Dog Foods from America that were involved in this….. Even my vet said until we know more & whats happening just keep doing what your doing with Patch.

I want to try the NEW Canidae, Grain Free PURE Ancestral™ Red Meat Formula Raw Coated Dry Dog Food, Ive been waiting & waiting to try Canidae’s new Ancestral formula, Canidae keep telling me 3 weeks, then they say another 3weeks they have more paper work to hand in etc etc cause we have very strict laws when any new dog foods come into Australia they have to pass or new food is NOT allowe into the country aaaaaarrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh

The Canidae Ancestral Red Meat formula the lentils are 7th ingredients so there isn’t more then 20% Legumes or any starch carbs in the first 5-6 ingredients, this Ancestral formula has more meat protein then Plant Proteins same as the Canidae Grain Free PURE Ancestral™ Avian Formula, Raw Coated Dry Dog Food, With Quail, Chicken & Turkey … rotate feed, feed 1 formula for Breakfast & another formula/brand for dinner so she doesnt get bored….

Read the link I posted above & keep rotating between different brands & make sure meat proteins are 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredient so you have more meat proteins & less starchy plant proteins..
This is the Canidae Ancestral raw formula I want to try..dogs would love this…
https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/

[Dennis T]

This entire thing has got me all crazy. My dog is currently in Merrick Grain Free Chicken and Sweet potato but she’s gotten bored of it and sniffs/turns away. I was planning on switching her over to Canidae’s new dog food formula “Ancestral Raw Coated Avian formula or Raw Coated fish formula”. However, while this food shows a lot of meat (quail and pheasant are safe for dogs?) It also includes Legumes, so now I’m cautious. Does anyone have any thoughts on this new formula or just any recommendations in general?

[Spy Car]

@aimme, who made the argument not to feed by-products because both by-products and meat products destined for dog food are often condemned and contaminated? Not me.

Seems like you want to defeat a straw man.

I’m for the inclusion of most items classed as by-products in pet food. I’d also like all parts used in dog food to be wholesome and unspoiled.

There are no regulations stopping an “integrated” rendering plant from accepting the same sort of “roadkill, expired meats, dead zoo animals, bloated dead livestock, offal left in trucks in the elements for days” as is common with independent rendering plants. There is no mechanism to prevent such practices.

Claims that “all ingredients are from USDA facilities” is one of the worst abuses in the industry as it allows them to claim condemned foods are “from” inspected plants.

You seem to have more faith in these companies than I do.

Bill

[Kyle D]

What do you think about Instinct Raw Boost for Large Breed Puppies they do sell this there

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,

Yes I heard the same thing, it was the “Zignature Kangaroo” formula it’s very high red & green lentils, like I said these pet food companies up the protein % with plant proteins instead of having more Kangaroo meat cause Roo is more expensive in America, thats why I email Zignature a year ago & asked them where are they getting their kangaroo meat from?? cause I knew Zignature had changed their Zignature Kangaroo formula & added red Lentils there’s not much kangaroo meat in the dry Zignature formula now, where it once was good when I use to recommend Zignature for dogs with food sensitivities & allergies so they are paying top dollar for their Kangaroo meal now…

Most Australian pet owners normally feed their dogs a dry kibble & they add some raw Kangaroo meat or raw meaty bones with the dry kibble..
We can buy raw meaty beef, chicken, kangaroo, Crocodile bones, Kangaroo tail, Kangaroo minced meat, from Pet Shops, I’d say its all By product meats healthy fresh By Product meats, By product Kangaroo is apparently is very healthy.
Our vets always recommend to add some raw Kangaroo to your dogs diet cause its very healthy, I cant handle the smell of Kangaroo, its has a strong meathy smell & tastes very rich meat, when its made into a dry kibble cooked & cooked at high tempretures this is when these byproduct meat lose their goodness & dont have all the goodness they once had…

Our dead Kangaroos, dead cows, dead horses that are on the side of the road are picked up by the local council, the council for that area is informed & a garbage truck goes & gets the dead animal off the rd within 24hr & it’s put into the garbage truck, then it’s taken to the tip & if its a dead dog or dead cat the animal is scanned for a microchip & owner is notified, if there’s no Micro Chip the cat or dog is throwned into the garbage truck & taken to the local tip…
I’d say America probably does the same thing, all road kill probably ends up as land fill…
I hope it does cause Patch eats American made kibble, he seems to do better with his IBD then the Australian made grain free formula’s, he does OK on some Australian made grain dry kibbles but better with the Potato, Sweet potato grain free US kibbles.

I use my nose, as soon as I open a new bag of kibble I smell it, some kibbles smell OK when the kibble bags is first opened, then after 1-2 weeks I re smell the kibble thats in air tight containers & some kibbles starts to have an “awful” off meat smell & of cause Patch likes this kibble BUT I throw it out or I take it back to the Pet shop it’s an expensive brand, But Wellness & Canidae kibbles always stay & smell the same as they smelt when I first opened up the kibble bag, they dont smell worse after 2-3 weeks, where some Australian, made kibbles smelt awful & I’ve noticed the ones that were Fish started to get a rotten fishy smell after 2 weeks…

Start smelling your dry kibble from the day you open the bag then after it’s been in Air tight container or in it’s orginal kibble bag & see does the smell stay the same or get worse??
Then you’ll know rotten rendered meats were used, I think the kibbles that start to smell of rotten meat after 1-2 weeks have use rendered rotten meats….

How’s your sick dog going? I don’t know his name, is he doing much better now he’s on the different Pro Plan Sensitive kibble?
He might be like Patch, very sensitive & they know straight away when something isnt right with their food, cause a few American brands of kibble that ended up on the high toxins & contaminates list, Patch ate & became unwell after he ate those formula’s..
I use to feed fish thru the Summer months cause of Patches allergies then I’d rotate & feed Lamb or Pork thru the Winter months…

So sometimes toxins & contaminates play a big part in making our pets ill & die..

[Susan]

Hi Brenda,

IBS IBD is an awful disease, my Staffy Patch has IBD diagnosed thru Endoscope & Biopsies..
Are you seeing a vet that specializes in IBD/IBS??

You have just posted what my Patch was like when he took Predisone…

Predisone made my boy WORSE vomiting, nausea, Diarrhea, slept all thru day, my happy go lucky Patch became worse, I knew it was the Predisone, when his vet first prescibe it the first time I said NO NO, so we tried Metronidazole again which really helps him but then Patch kept having his stomach/pancreas pain, he was lifting his right paw & wanting me to rub his stomach so I thought it was his Pancreas that was sore but test result kept saying his Pancreas was good & healthy then the vet said its his stomach from the IBD 🙁
My vet suffers with IBD which is really good cause she knows all the symptoms..
Then I released he was only whinging & lifting his paw after eating certin dry kibbles…
his dry kibble can not be higher then 360 in Kcals per cup or high in fat this is when his stomach hurts…
I’d reduce his predisone over 2 weeks, then reduce again over 2 weeks etc & stop you’ll probably see he getting a bit better, reduce slowly if he’s been on Predisone more then 2 months, google side effects dogs taking Prednisone…
When Predisone works their poos firm up, the dog start getting better, they drink & drink water but that’s nothing compared to them being ill with IBD symptoms, my Patch didnt get better while taking predisone only worse & we started on a low dose 10mg twice a day for a 18kg/40lb dog, vet reduced down to 5mg a day, 2.5mg with breakfast 2.5mg with dinner still Patch wanst his happy self & his sloppy sloppy poo continued, vomiting stopped but he was feeling very sick & mouth licking eating grass, then once I stopped the Predisone Patch got better within 2-3 days.. Talk with your vet or start reducing the Prednisone yourself, then just explain to your vet & if you get a better result the vet normally says Ok then & my vet wrote on Patches chart he can NOT take Prednisone… Something isnt right with your poor boy nilly 2 yrs he should be getting better…

Here’s a good F/B group to join
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
I know it says “raw feeding” but there’s people in group that cook, give vet diets etc

Also go on “Judy Morgan DVM” F/B page & look thru her Video’s scroll down, down till you get to around August 2017 look for her “IBD Diet” I cant find it, but I am scrolling quickly
Here’s her “Pancreatitis Diet” June 4 2017 you can leave out some ingredients it gives you ideas.. https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/videos/1347288501986822/

I buy lean 5 star human grade pork mince 1kg, You can buy Turkey breast mince just make sure they’re lean minces, no hamburger minces as they are very high in fat…
I add to 1kg/2.2lbs 1 egg whisked, some fresh chopped parsley about 1 teaspoon, some broccolli heads only a few little heads chopped up broccolli heads, mix all together, later I added 1 small peeled grated carrot but that was after I knew Patch could eat the bland pork rissoles, then I started adding more ingredients but at first only add a few ingredients just incase he has food sensitivities & make the rissole balls into 1/2 cup size rissole balls & bake on foil lined baking tray, bake for 15mins in oven, take the pork rissole out & drain any fat water, then turn over the rissole balls & bake for another 15mins take out, drain any fat/water & look in middle of rissole balls are they cooked & reading, I aslo buy 1 sweet big potato, I peel & cut up into small pieces boil then cool & I freeze the sweet potato pieces & I freeze the pork rissole separate to the sweet potato, then I add 1/2 cup sweet potato & the rissole bals are 1/2 a cup, you mash the sweet potatoes thru the cut up rissole balls or I put all in a blender & blend……

Are you feeding 4 smaller meals a day?
also what dose of Omeprazole is your dog taking?
My Patch just took 20mg Omeprazole in morning when he took twice a day he seem unwell & got a fermenting smell in his mouth so vet said just give the 1 x 20mg Omeprazole in morning but this March I changed his Omeprazole over to Pantoprazole x 20mg after Patch was taking the Omeprazole for 2 yrs, the Omeprazole didnt seem to be working no more & I knew the Pantoprazole works better for me as I take it..
There’s a few PPI sometimes you need to find the right one, dont just stop the Omeprazole, never just stop a PPI, it needs to be very slowly reduced, if he’s taken Omeprazole twice a day then you can be reduced to just the 1 tablet a day thats OK its when you completly stop a PPI..

Make sure you only do 1 new thing or reduce 1 med at one time over 1 week, then the next week you can try something else new, so if he does reacts you know what its from…
I’d be reducing the predisone as it sounds like it isnt helping him & might be making him worse..

There’s Hills I/D Digestive Care Stews Chicken,Vegetables & Rice low fat can food this smells really good it smells like baby food.. another thing you can try is buy the tin Salmon in spring water small tins, drain all water & add 1/2 sweet potato put in air tight container in fridge & give small meal for lunch, dogs normally love fish…Sweet Potato soothes stomach & bowel & firms up poo..

[sharon l]

my dog and i both have autoimmune disease and our immune systems react to most foods and food additives … titanium dioxide being one of the worst.

Titanium dioxide, a common food additive found in candy, gum, bread, sunscreens, cosmetics and medications, has been shown in new research to alter digestive cell structure and function due to the damage it causes to the gut lining. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452074816301185

dog food, and human food, has been so adulterated with chemicals that our food is destroying our digestive systems and causing autoimmune disease.

raw food or low carb / no starch does best for my dogs … and myself.

[Patricia A]

. I now only give kibble to my 16 year old who will only eat as a topper Holistic Health Extensions but it’s only says supplemental on the can. In between she and my other two get boiled chicken, salmon lean steak etc. So I have to give some kibble and has been getting Fromm for years. Switched to Fromm Grain Free Four Star years ago and rotated the proteins but mostly kept to Salmon A la Veg because of small kibble size. But because of FDA report went back to grain inclusive . Got samples of the small breed gold which she ate. After reading what you posted I’m glad my Pet Supply store was out of the gold. Ended up getting what i fed years ago being the grain inclusive Salmon A La VEg. My other two eats rotation of primal freeze dried proteins, Stella’s freeze dried and Bixbi Rawbbles. Wish my 16 year old would eat the raw so I wouldn’t worry so much about this stupid FDA report. At least I HOPE i’m doing the right thing by feeding the raw in these brands.

[joanne l]

I know just b/c it say USDA inspected plants does not mean good food. Like I said before when a dog food company can stamp USDA inspected food than it is good, but we will never see that. Even the best companies can’t say that either. But we all have to put our trust in someone. Some people, including myself, can’t feed raw diet. I have a big dog. If I had a little dog I would hands down. But what I do is, I feed home cooked and part dry food. So I do half and half. That’s what I did for my other dog to. As far as dry food goes, I feed the best and the middle of the road. In my experience I had problems with both. The expensive food was good until I got a bag and it was different in color and my dog got diarrhea. The middle of the road food was good until I got a bad batch. So I don’t know anymore. Oh, and my other dog ate fresh chicken and beef liver and hearts etc. and it is cheap, but this dog I have now does not do well with fresh by products. So I give him fresh meat and fish.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by joanne l.

[Spy Car]

What I find funny is people who (falsely) accuse others of an irrational disdain for “by-products,” but who won’t feed fresh, wholesome, and inexpensive raw chicken feet as an excellent dietary source of glucosamine, and who instead turn to expensive supplements that make his or her dog sick.

Bill

[haleycookie]

Raw diets can be complete and balanced. I know shocking! But it is possible to do a little bit of research and even get with a nutritionalist to make a raw diet. A diet that is most correct and healthiest for a dog.
By the way it’s ludicrous to say big dog food companies are buying the best products lmao. Don’t make me laugh. They’re buying the cheapest most processed antiobiotic and hormone filled garbage they can get their money hungry hands on so they can spend 5$ making a 40-50 lbs bag of food and resell it for 20-30 dollars. sorry but no. The trials they do also are incredibly limited and they take into consideration that the dogs are alive after the trial and that’s it.
Raw and slightly cooked balanced diets are the way to go. There’s no way anyone will make me believe for any reason a burnt ball of artificial vitamins with over cooked ingredients are better. I know not everyone can have the time to make their dog and cats food which is why i will still suggest other types of food. But I refuse to recommend low quality ones from untrustworthy companies.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by haleycookie.

[anonymous]

Compete and balanced. Exactly! Thank goodness. 🙂

Much better than homemade and raw, right?
Who checks that?

You can always pay an independant lab $$ to have the food tested, if you so desire.
Or how about a consult with a veterinary nutritionist? A veterinarian that specializes in nutrition.

Otherwise, you could just go by the recommendations of your vet and hope for the best.
That’s what works for a lot of us.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,

Yes FRESH raw byproduct meats are great if you’re a raw feeder, but when By Product meats are in pet foods I dont think you really know what your dog or cat is really eating as you’ll see if you watch the video Ive posted maybe it will explain a bit more…

It’s best if you buy some raw beef hearts lightly cook them & slowly introduce a little bit of heart as a daily treat, I’ve been thinking of doing this as treat thru the day for cat & Patch, I always see all the organ meats reduce in supermarket, 1/2 price around 50c to 1$….
Best not to cook the raw organ meats, cooking destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods. So lightly cook..

Beef heart is incredibly rich, so feed it as an organ meat not a muscle meat in a raw diet.
Only add about 1 oz per meal for a 70 lb dog. Do not overfed it as it can cause diarrhea When you cook the raw organ meats it destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods.

Poor Patch learnt the hard way when he ate heap of very big Liver Treats, when I first rescued him…the rescue group had given me the liver treats & Patch decided to steal them & eat the small bag..He had diarrhea all night the poor thing…

By Product meats these Pet Food Companies get & use wouldnt be separated so the good bits are probably mixed with all the rotten bad meats & other things..
Chicken would probably be the best in dry kibbles & in wet can foods, to fed & be fresh & a good qualitity…also chicken is very cheap…so these pet food companies wouldnt really need to buy by product chicken…. if you watch the link below I’ve posted Dennis the Whistle blower talks about saving 2 live chickens after then survived the chop at the meat plant… same thing happened when my X husband brought home a chicken that he found running out onto the street of a factory she missed being killed, I gave her to a neigbour & her daughter took her she lived out her days on a farm & was a good egg layer once she became healthy…
I asked a Hills rep one day, why does all the Hills premium & vet diets only have Chicken as the meat protein, (this is in the Australian Hills formula’s), she said cause Chicken is the easiest meat to digest & chicken is cheaper….

Watch this video when you have a spare 8mins
Dennis a whistle blower tell the 7.30 Report ABC whats in our pet foods we feed our pets
“Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals”
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958
When you see ingredient list that read like this
Meat and Meat meals (chicken, beef, lamb and/or pork)…..

But I cant understand how are these meat meals separated into Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Kangaroo Meal, Salmon Meal, Pork Meal… I know we have about 5-6 big Meat Plants in Australia maybe some of these other big meat plants sell the separate meat meals to pet food companies, Here’s another video, when pet foods were tested they were not the meat proteins it said in the ingredient list.. If Patch could eat a raw home made or cooked diet, Id feed a home made raw this way I know what he is eating..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

Your question about Kangaroo meat, about 1yr ago a representative from Zignature was answering people questions on DFA Review Zignature section cause Anon101 had taken over Zignature Reviews & wreaking havoc, I thought I will emailed Zignature & I asked Zignature who does Zignature buy their kangaroo from, a man from Zignature email me back, he said Zignature sends over their own American hunters to kill our wild kangaroos & they bring back the dead wild kangaroo’s, straight away I knew this is a BIG lie you cant come into Australia & kill our wild life then take it out of the country?? He’s been watching too many Crocodile Dundee movies, lol
The only company that exports raw Kangaroos is “Marco Meats” in South Australia or the only other way Zignature would get their Kanagroo is to buy it in meal form which I think this would be the best way for dry kibbles then the pet food companies add Lentils or chickpeas to push the protein % up so people think they’re getting more kangaroo meat…

There’s a really good Kangaroo dry pet food called “Vetalogia” Kangaroo Adult, I know Vetalogica was lauched Superzoo 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
you’d be getting more Kangaroo meat cause its Kangaroo meal then Chicken meal, contact the American Vetalogica- https://www.vetalogica.com/
ask for samples, just say your dog is very fussy eater & does Vetalogica have sample you can try & see what they say..
I tried the Vetalogica about 3 months ago, I think Patch can’t eat Tapioca he starts dragging his bum on carpet rug & scratching when he eats any dry kibble that have tapioca in it them….. here’s the ingredient list for the Vetalogica Kangaroo Adult formula.. https://www.vetalogica.com.au/collections/vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-dog-food/products/copy-of-vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-lamb-adult-dogs

[Susan]

Hi Cynthia,

Here’s a link that Lynne D posted today in the “Grain Free Diets & Heart Disease” research & studies done on Golden Retriever, Newhounds, Portuguese water dogs & Beagal adult dogs of varying genetic backgrounds.
Common findings in affected dogs are large body size, very low blood taurine concentration and diets containing whole-grain rice, rice bran or barley, and lamb meal…

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpqq66i3w2twy7e/AADcuRPcpOOBkewPtXf7SAdSa?dl=0

If you’re feeding a dry kibble you want a dry kibble that has at least 2-3 meat proteins & meat meals as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredients then a carb, you want higher the meat proteins & less plant proteins less legumes, less rice, less barley & corn etc..
Best to rotate your kibble between a few different brands so your dog is getting variety of dry foods & isnt eating the same dry dog food 24/7 also start adding fresh whole natural sources of taurine to diet, raw beef heart, dark chicken meat, eggs, seaweed, krill and brewer’s yeast. Raw meat is fairly rich in taurine, comparable to fish, but cooked meat typically have only 10 milligrams of taurine per ounce, you can buy tin Sardines in spring water & add 2 spoons to 1 of your dog daily meal…

Here’s a little insert from study done on “Golden Retrievers”

The contribution of diet merits further investigation, since three of five dogs in this study were eating commercial diets that included lamb or lamb meal and rice as the primary ingredients. Historically, dietary causes of taurine-deficient
DCM in dogs have been ignored, because taurine is not recognized as an essential amino acid in dogs.
6
However, recent studies by Delaney et al, have prompted new insights into the
possible relation between taurine deficiency in dogs and diets containing whole-grain rice, rice bran or barley, and lamb meal.
38
It has been reported that dietary bran rice decreases plasma and whole-blood taurine concentrations in cats by accelerating the excretion of bile acids.
39
The role of lamb meal in taurine deficiency remains obscure, but lamb
meal may limit the bioavailability of sulfur amino acids.
40
Recently, low blood taurine concentrations have been identified in a cohort of Newfoundland dogs fed lamb meal and rice.
29
In an extensive genetic study performed by Alroyetal. on Portuguese water dogs, two litters were obtained following a breeding of presumptive carriers of DCM. Two
(29%) of seven puppies in the first litter developed DCM while they were fed a commercial growth formula that included ground corn and poultry byproduct meal as primary ingredients.
19
The second litter was fed a lamb meal and rice puppy diet, and eight (89%) of nine puppies developed signs of taurine-deficient DCM.
19
The role of diet was not investigated in that study, but it could be hypothesized that the heritable predisposition to taurine-deficient DCM in juvenile Portuguese water dogs was precipitated by feeding a lamb meal and rice diet.
Torres et al showed that feeding lamb meal and rice to young beagles for 8 months significantly decreased their plasma taurine concentrations during the first month, but no change occurred thereafter, and the depletion was insufficient to cause DCM in these dogs.
41
On the other hand, a decreased urinary taurine excretion was observed
despite a lack of change in plasma taurine concentrations, indicating a certain physiological adaptation to conserve taurine in the face of depletion.
41
The main limitation of the study reported here was its retrospective nature and the availability of echocardiographic data. Other echocardiographic measurements would have been useful to examine the systolic dysfunction and to follow the response to therapy. It has been reported that concurrent whole-blood taurine and plasma taurine deficiencies correlate better with myocardial taurine deficiency in dogs
than either whole-blood taurine or plasma taurine concen-
tration alone.
42
Nonetheless, all subjects included in this study had very low plasma taurine concentrations, which implied a clinically significant taurine deficiency.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
this happened with Patch at all the local parks in our area, the council men would spray the grass & weeds at all the parks every 3 months & they only put up their weed spraying signs saying they are spraying & have the name of the weed killer poison that they were using at each end of the walk ways, then when they were finished they take down their weed poison signs & leave so if you came a few mins or hours later you wouldnt have a clue there’s poison every thru the park where the dogs walk on the grass & sniff & this poison gets absorbed thru their paws or they lick their paws 🙁

Did you end up trying a new dry food or you were going to re feed Pro Plan Lamb & Rice formula but you were worried to retry it again??
What dose was he taken when he took the Metronidazole? with Patch I have to do very low dose 200mg with a meal twice a day every 12hours then after 4-5 days I just give him 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet at night with his meal then he goes to sleep…

I’m looking thru Patches IBD note pad, I use to write things down when another dog in the IBD group had similar IBD problems like Patch had…
here’s other drugs that are used for dogs with IBD but the dog reacted to Metronidazole & dog can not take the Metronidazole.
Sulfasalazine
Olsalazine
Secnidazole or Tinidazole
Doxycycline,
but my vet told me there is NO drug the same as Metronidazole that has an anti inflammatory & antibiotic in it?

Holistic meds instead of using Metronidazole.
“Colloidal Silver” from health food store, Colloidal Silver is suppose to help anything bacterial, fungal or viral, upset stomach instead of giving the dog Metronidazole or there’s L-Glutamine, Licorice root but Ive never tried the Holistic meds, Lew Olson swears by L-Gutamine she has her “K-9 Nutrition” F/B group, I never tried the holistic meds cause Patches vet ended up talking to another vet & he said to re try a very low dose Metronidazole for a 17kg dog & said to give Patch 250mg Metronidazole twice a day every 12 hours with a meal, so now when needed I just give 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet twice a day when Patch first starts the Metro then I reduce in 3-5 days to just 1 x 200mg Metro tablet Patch poos dont go good straight away, his poos are yucky for 5-10 days then after I’ve stop the Metronidazole he starts to do 2 perfect poos again…
I found this really good information, research done on small & large breed dogs the other day in the files of my”Dogs With Inflammatory Bowel Disease” – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support ” F/B group..

when you have a quiet 15mins read thru all this
REVIEW ARTICLE
Digestive sensitivity varies according to size of dogs:
a review M. P. Weber, V. C. Biourge and P. G. Nguyen
Royal Canin Research Center, Aimargues, France..

After reading the review I now I understand why Patch who is only a medium size breed dog does really well on “Large Breed kibbles” they are made for a large breed dogs stomach & bowel, to prevent large breed dogs getting bloat & other intestinal problems…

Have you ever tried a Large Breed dry dog food that was grain free & had Potatoes, no Lentils or Chickpeas? the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula is really good or another dry food that has similiar ingredients & has high Protein, low/med Fat, Fiber & low Carb % low Kcals per cup, I was always scared to try over 30% for Protein but Patch seems to d better with less carbs…
I hope this link works it explains why small breed dogs & large breed dogs need different dry diets. here’s a bit of the Review.

For a large breed dog, the general goal is to limit any ingredient that could increase the level of fermentable undigested residues and, in fine, exacerbate colonic fermentation. Highly digestible sources of proteins and starches are therefore strongly recommended to maintain an optimal digestive tolerance…
Fermentable fibre sources (i.e. beet pulp and FOS) must also be used in limited quantity in their diet. Conversely, the incorporation of non-fermentable fibre (i.e. cellulose) appears useful to increase their stool quality. It’s a really good read, I hope this link works, it worked when I posted it on f/b for another lady whos dogs is pooing too many poos & is doing sloppy/jelly poos….
Patch didnt do well when Patch was only eating the Purina Pro Plan OptiDerma, I had to put him back on the Wellness Core Large Bred & the next day perfect poos..

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Digestive%20Sensitivity%20and%20Dog%20Size.pdf?token=AWxdS0LAtYflktKtk13bU2vfu6buTNCdW6HuK-ODXVMRA1UBaouyR1S_TfaVGEbXbIpp2p6fRZXdmszsoTwQZGhNeoDyb0W9R_0CvuF-OKim0TaYxFpqxeGUiMAul6fOw942a71TqDuB7PAfHWAjeqQEF40Ftp4UF-2VFrylY3uo-A

[anonymous]

Panting and pacing look like anxiety but can also be signs of pain and discomfort.
Regarding the dental, were dental x-rays done? Before? After?
Because root remnants can be left behind causing pain/inflammation/pain.

Something is wrong….. The effects of anesthesia do not last more than a day or two.

So, I would make a return trip to the vet that did the dental surgery and discuss. Request a follow-up visit and exam (some vets won’t charge).
If he still thinks it’s anxiety, ask about treatment options. Maybe prescription medication (short-term) would help? No need for the dog to suffer.

PS: If you are feeding raw or adding any supplements, please inform the vet. This will help him to diagnose.

[Susan]

Hi,
I’d stop the Purina Pro Plan Lamb & Rice before he gets real sick again, it might have something wrong with this batch of kibble like you said.
Take the bag of Lamb & Rice back & see if there’s a different batch nb & use by date & swap or try something else…
A few years ago I tried Patch on the Purina Pro Plan Opti-Restore for Stomach/Digestion it is Lamb, Rice & Barley, Patch started doing sloppy poos then diarrhea, I took him to the vet to get a script of Metronidazole cause Patches diarrhea didnt get better after I stopped the Pro Plan Optirestore, the vet put her finger in Patches bum to feel around his bowel & when she pulled her gloved finger out it had all yellow undigested kibble thru his poo on her glove finger, she said his stomach is digesting this food…
So now I dont know, can he eat barley, was it just his stomach not working properly? or does he have food sensitivities to Barley? alot of these grain dry kibble have barley in them here in Australia…..

Also I had to take back the Pro Plan OptiDerma Sensitive Skin & Coat dry food, I bought around the same time you started the Pro Plan Chicken & Rice food a few weeks ago, at first Patch did really well when he was having 1/2 Wellness Core & 1/2 Pro Plan OptiDerma kibble but as soon as he was just eating the Pro Plan Optiderma Patch started doing Mr Whippy yellow poos, he was doing 2 poos a day but he started whinging, farting, he had bad wind pain & poos became worse, I couldn’t pick poos up, so I stopped feeding him the OptiDerma on Tuesday, as soon as he went back to his Wellness Core the next day Wednesday & today his poos are firm & he went back to normal, now he is starting to itch again 🙁
One good thing happened while I was introducing the Pro Plan OptiDerma dry kibble he had NO itchy smelly skin, no red paws, so he must be sensitive to the Chicken in the Wellnesss Core, the Wellness Core is also higher in protein-35% so he’s getting heaps more chicken, I always knew he has skin problems when he ate raw chicken & cooked chicken but when chicken is in some dry kibbles that are lower in protein his paws & skin isn’t that bad like when he ate raw chicken or cooked chicken thru elimination diet, the chicken doesn’t seem to affect his stomach or bowel only his skin….

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been feeding or mixing in some “raw green tripe” for years. Raw tripe now but years ago I fed canned tripe. Even a small amount in one meal per day might help and decreasing the amount of kibble.

You might also try crumbling up a nugget or two of a freeze dried raw food such as Primal Freeze Dried if you do not like raw frozen. It’s pricey per pound so just a few pieces will do. Bone matter helps to make formed stool. There are several brands of raw foods (frozen, dehydrated and freeze dried) to choose from.

Primal also had frozen grinds (meat and bone) and frozen mixes (meat/bone/some veg) in small chubs.

Sometimes, just decreasing the amount of food helps.

[Spy Car]

SkeptVet is a notoriously dishonest broker who slews his arguments with misleading half-truths. I’ve learned that this source has no credibility and his claim to practice “science-based veterinary medicine” are false.

This is yet another example of what is business as usual at SpeptVet, He has created a straw-man argument here (that, according to him, some people claim carbs are “toxic” for cats). He can easily defeat his own straw-man because–strictly speaking–carbs are not “toxic” (as toxins are defined by science).

But that doesn’t make the argument that carbohydrates are either necessary or beneficial in a feline diet. They are not.

This is a dishonest source who abuses the principles of science to advance his own agenda.

Bill

[anonymous]

I would like to offer an opposing viewpoint. Article written by a veterinarian that practices science based veterinary medicine. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/06/dietary-carbohydrates-are-not-toxic-to-cats/ excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments. Also, you can use the search engine there to look up other topics.
Hope this helps someone 🙂

Dietary Carbohydrates are NOT “Toxic” to Cats
Posted on June 19, 2018 by skeptvet
“Folks who are critical of commercial pet foods or advocates for raw diets and other alternatives often rail against the evils of carbohydrates. The idea that dietary carbs cause disease is a central thesis of the recent “Truth About Pet Cancer” video series (my response to which is coming soon!). With cats in particular, the claim is made that since they are obligate carnivores, carbohydrates are effectively poison for this species, causing diabetes, cancer and all sorts of other diseases. There’s only one small problem with this claim: it isn’t true”!

PS: If you are confused about the differing opinions and information that you find on the internet, please consult a veterinary healthcare professional that you trust, discuss your concerns and go from there.

[haleycookie]

Sheltie sass- did you read spy cars post? Protein has no bad effects on dogs. It’s a myth. In fact you suggest a raw diet which is almost completely made of protein, bones, and fat. I don’t think the protein levels are what’s the issue here. Just as spy car said dogs have no nutritional requirements to dogs (or cats) so adding rice would be counter productive to what the original poster is trying to do.

[sheltie sass]

This is anecdotal, but my mother’s old dog didn’t like the kibble she was feeding it. Instead of shopping around for something the dog DID like, or just letting her get hungry enough to eat the kibble, she started buying big bags of cat kibble. (She’s noticed that the dog would eat the cats’ food, given the chance.)

She thought she’d done something clever, since her dog finished the food and licked up every crumb. But after awhile, the dog started getting sick. The vet told her she was dangerously close to ruining the dog’s kidneys, and not to feed cat food any more.

I did find an article to back this up: http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/why-does-my-dog-make-a-beeline-for-cat-food

“…long term it is not good for a dog to eat primarily cat food, Dr. Crowell-Davis says. It’s not properly balanced for them in terms of the fiber and protein and certain nutrients. Plus, it can be hard on their liver and their kidneys to have so much protein.”

It really sounds like cat food is formulated with too much protein for dogs, since cats are obligate carnivores, not omnivores. I would think that finding a quality cat food with the correct amount of protein for dogs would be difficult, if not impossible.

I suppose you could feed a percentage of cat food along with some rice or something of that nature, but if you’re doing all that, why not just feed raw?

[Spy Car]

@JS, I wondered if the Calcium to Phosphorus mineral balance might be different for a cat food vs a dog food, but it isn’t. There are some dog foods, like Victors Ultra Pro, that have higher protein and fat percentages (42/22) which is a decided positive, despite the misinformation you are getting from some sources.

I feed my dog a PMR style raw diet. No Carbs. Best thing ever. Better teeth, better coat, better energy (while also calm), great muscle mass with no body fat.

Cats fed PMR eat exactly the same way dogs do, with the exception being that cats need an adequate source of dietary taurine (as they can’t synthesize their own). I feed regular amounts of taurine-rich beef heart in any case to my dog.

I can’t say (having never investigated the question) whether there are any nutrients in cat food that are not balanced for dogs. I’d want to do due diligence on that question.

But the idea that cat food is too high in protein and fat is a total falsehood. The fewer carbs in the diet the better. Carbs add no essential nutrients to a canine diet. None. They also don’t belong in a feline diet.

Bill

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

If it’s raw following 80/10/10 ratio, I don’t have a concern between a dog label or a cat label, personally. To me, I get worried when it’s cooked down, kibble labeled for a cat being fed to a dog. That’s more because of vitamin supplementation and I would worry about some being too high or too low in areas for a dog.

[Patricia A]

I give both Stella Chewy’s and Primal freeze dried as a topper. I used canned as a topper before I started with the freeze dried. I could never give any recipe with beef because it resulted in diarrhea after the second day. Same thing happens with a little topper of steak if it happens to be a fattier cut of meat. So I conclude that it’s too much fat . Don’t want to take any chances with the freeze dried so I just stick to lean proteins such as Rabbit, duck, venison. No problem with Stella’s Salmon and cod topper either. I don’t bother with any chicken recipes since I buy antibiotic free, organic for what it’s worth and shred that as a topper twice a week.
I was always confused by the advisors reviews with giving some recipes of the same brand a 5* rating and others like 2. But if you read further he always states that SOME recipes might not be suitable for every dog because of their fat to protein ratio. So that is what I go by when I pick the proteins. Always the 5 stars that are lower in fat.
As for affordability it doesn’t break the bank since they’re chihuahuas . My sixteen year old will not touch anything besides home cooked, when I have it and her canned Health extensions in chicken as a kibble topper. Kibble being Fromm or Stella’s small breed. Also with the freeze dried, being a very dense food, I believe if I gave the amount they suggest on their feeding guidelines they would be very fat.So it will last longer since a little does go a longer way then believed. . I do want to try Bixbi Rawbble in duck. Very expensive but after going through enough canned food that the one picky one wouldn’t eat and wasting so much each day I think I’m actually SAVING money now with the freeze dried.
Would like to go one day all freeze dried but just haven’t gotten there yet. I do give less and less kibble as a base though.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Joanne
I just read this on Rodney Habib f/b page…
Super Scary!
Study reveals 93% of brands tested showed limited ingredient diets (for pets with problems) were labeled wrong!
Of the 40 analyzed products (9 dry NPDs, 22 wet NPDs, 6 dry HPDs and 3 wet HPDs), ten presented a content that correctly matched the label, while five did not contain the declared animal species, twenty-three revealed the presence of undeclared animal species, and two had a vague label that did not allow the evaluation of its accuracy. The most frequently contaminants identified in both dry and wet pet foods were pork, chicken and turkey. The presence of undeclared animal species was higher in dry than wet pet foods; furthermore, a lower number of contaminating animal species was identified in HPDs than NPDs (4 vs 10), and a lower number of contaminated HPDs (6 out of 9, 67%) than contaminated NPDs was detected (24 out of 31, 77%). Thirteen out of 14 brands tested presented at least one mislabeled product.

Conclusions:

Mislabeling seems to be a widespread issue in pet foods used as elimination diets. Contamination can occur in all types of products used for the purpose, although dry NPDs are the main issue. Due to the high risk of contamination, particular attention should be given to both the selection of raw material suppliers and the production process.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

[Gwen B]

Continued…I cannot believe they expect consumers to buy these small bags at big prices, as he advertises…Oprah uses it…well, Oprah can afford it…I cannot.

Also, I use the little stix that are suppose to have no rawhide…Earth Animal. My dogs love the small little stix so when my pet store started carrying big bone sizes, I bought two of them. They ate them on their beds and, when they were almost finished, they both started acting a little strange…and mostly, there beds were left with this chemical type residue all over the bed..brushing it out didn’t work, washing it in the washing machine didn’t work…If this is what it does to their beds, DO NOT BUY THE LARGE BONE TYPES OF EARTH ANIMAL …DO NOT BUY IT FOR YOUR DOGS. IN MY OPINION….BASED ON HOW MY DOGS ACTED WHEN THEY FINISHED THEM, I WILL NOT BUY ANY MORE.

[Chloe B]

Hi, I have a very happy 10 year old corgi who has been diagnosed with colitis — she has gone through a lot of tests to rule out other things, but at this point we’re not sure what is causing it –she’s a rescue and has had it since she was rescued. We’ve had her 3 months. I’m wondering whether anyone else has their dog on a food that they’ve had good luck with? I don’t want to feed her raw diet. I’d love to hear about your experience and what has worked, thank you.

[haleycookie]

Almost every brand of dog food has to draw vitamins from China. I’m sure if you email any company they’ll tell you the same thing (or won’t tell u anything) so it shouldn’t be the upsetting as the majority of food, whether they say made in the USA or not, use vitamins from China.
Most human vitamins are sourced from China as well. They have some type of power of vitamins so that they can only be bought from them.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by haleycookie.

[aimee]

Was in Wal Mart and found these chews https://www.google.com/search?q=Ol+Roy+chicken+rawhide+free+bright+bones&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=B0EmwZd-2q9tUM%253A%252C0Ub_5V9TZsYWNM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzf-KdEnDhy7L1RCJ51jTqMpYP-54Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwismpqdk4HdAhVOyYMKHc4WC58Q9QEwAnoECAYQBA&biw=1303&bih=694#imgrc=N5ICdpMrU0_0gM:

They look very much as “No Hide” by Earth Animal and have an ingredient line up similar to the old ingredient line up from E.A. Ingredients for the Ol Roy chew Chicken, pork gelatin, rice starch, sugar cane fiber, glycerin, carrageenan salt, potassium sorbate E.A. was chicken, chicken gelatin, brown rice flour, organic egg, olive oil banana and bromelain.

I did some of the same things with these chews as with E.A. No Hide. The material cracked when trying to unroll it and it is fairly easy to tear. Earth Animal product bends but never cracked and couldn’t be torn. I soaked the Ol Roy chew in water. It puffed up a bit and took on a slimy feel and fell apart when handled. Best way for me to describe it is to say it was like wet toilet paper. E.A. product puffs quite a bit after soaking, remains tough and unable to be torn. The Ol Roy product when boiled disintegrated. It left behind a milky water with build up around the pan edges. It started falling apart after about 10 seconds in the boiling water. The Earth Animal material can be boiled for hours and it shrinks and curls and remains tough after boiling. The Ol Roy product is very consistent in how it is rolled and in the thickness of the material and is made of a continuous sheet. The E.A. product varies significantly in the thickness of material the number of pieces in a roll and the shapes of those pieces.

This Ol Roy product behaves exactly as I’d expect a gelatin and flour product to behave. In comparison to rawhide the Ol Roy product appears like rawhide but simple test( soaking in tepid and boiling water) reveal it behaves nothing like rawhide The Earth Animal product looks like rawhide and when soaked in tepid water and boiling water behaves similarly to rawhide.

The Ol Roy treats are made in China, came in a 4 pack of ~4inch chews, sold for about $6.00 and met label weight.

[Rena C]

Can dog food advisor investigate and update us on recent quality of Primal freeze dried dog food? Cos recently there were bags (duck recipe and turkey sardine recipe) that I and many other friends purchased smelly really bad (bad oil smell) and like rotten. I’ve been feeding primal duck to my dog for several years and it used to smell very nice, I can tell the difference now once I opened the bag. Is the factory having changed the oil or some ingriedients thar affect and lower he quality now? Is it still justified to rate 5-Star? Is it still no health issue to dogs? Many thanks!