Hi crazy4cats –
The subject of bloat and what factors increase or decrease the risk is very controversial. These are my tips on avoiding bloat based on what my breeders have told me and my personal experience owning large dogs:
1) While a dog can bloat on any type of food, a dog fed a moist diet (raw, canned, etc.) is much less likely to bloat. When feeding kibble you should soak the kibble in water until it expands – this will decrease the risk of bloat and also add moisture to the diet.
2) Don’t allow your dogs to exercise for an hour after eating.
3) Don’t allow your dogs to inhale their food – for some dogs this may mean investing in a portion pacer or a slow feed bowl.
4) Don’t let your dogs drink large volumes of water immediately following a meal.
5) Make sure the dog is getting probiotics and enzymes (unless you’re feeding raw these will likely have to be supplemented). Dr. Maniet, a holistic veterinarian, states “Probiotics and enzymes can help reduce gas, do I’d expect that they also will help reduce bloat.” (Whole Dog Journal)
I’ve had breeders tell me that large dogs should be fed on raised feeders to decrease their risk of bloating and I’ve read the opposite – that raised feeders increase the risk of bloating. I feed my dogs on raised feeders and haven’t had a problem. The raised feeder factor is one of the most controversial.
Some believe that if a food contains citric acid or a dry food with a fat source in the first four ingredients it will be more likely to cause bloat – I wouldn’t hold too much stock in this theory (jmo).
Stress plays a role as well, stressed/nervous dogs are more likely to bloat.
Glad to hear you’re ordering from Hare Today! Their stuff is awesome, you’ll love it. I don’t think probiotics and enzymes are necessary for a raw diet, especially not if the dog is getting green tripe. I don’t supplement with enzymes or probiotics. My dogs get green tripe every other day and kefir daily. With that said it’s certainly not going to hurt anything to add probiotics and enzymes, it would just be an unnecessary expense imo.
Patty….if I ever wanted to feed a homemade raw diet, I would try their “recipe”. It looks easy enough and I would add their supplement to it.
I also forgot to say that they are mail order only, unless you live close enough to pick it up.
Hi taniawi –
If you want to feed your dog an egg for breakfast, veggies at lunch and chicken for dinner in addition to a balanced commercial dog food, that would be fine. If you want to feed your dog only an egg, veggies and chicken – that would be an extremely unbalanced diet and your dog would eventually suffer nutritional deficiencies. If you’re interested in feeding your dog a homemade diet I strongly recommend you pick up a book about homemade feeding with balanced recipes formulated by a veterinarian or nutritionist. Dogaware.com. is a great resource as well. Also, if you check out the raw diet thread, under “Suggested Menus” you can checkout several of my dogs’ meals to get an idea of what needs to be included in a homemade diet.
I’m not sure if diet rotation creates picky eaters since all mine are always excited to eat whether it’s just kibble, kibble with canned, kibble with freeze dried, raw food, kibble and raw food. They never leave anything in their bowls.
Hi tracyx –
You should rotate foods and you should add fresh or canned toppers to dry food. Feeding the same food day after day is very unhealthy, all living things need variety. Switching will strengthen your dog’s digestive system. Another benefit of switching foods frequently is that if there is an issue with a food like an ingredient change and it doesn’t work for your dog, you’ll have lots of other go to options and if there is an issue such as recall due to contamination, your dog will be less likely to be affected if you don’t keep him on any one food for an extended period of time (often times the contaminants are in trace amounts and take months of feeding to build up to a toxic level). Dry food is the worst thing a dog can be fed, it’s not species-appropriate (it’s low in moisture and higher in carbs and protein than fresh meat based foods and canned foods). For this reason it’s a good idea to always top dry food with some quality canned food, a commercial frozen or freeze-dried raw food (rehydrated) or fresh cooked or raw meat. My three dogs eat a homemade raw diet and get something different at each meal. Prior to feeding raw I rotate kibble brands at the end of each bag (about every three weeks) and rotated canned toppers daily (I also added things like raw eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, healthy table scraps, etc.). I know rotating hasn’t made my dogs picky, they’d gladly eat the same food day after day but I would never allow that. I do have hounds though – if you have a more picky dog topping with fresh or canned could make them picky towards just dry. I wouldn’t let the possibility of your dog being “picky,” however, deter you from feeding a healthier more species-appropriate diet. I personally feel that feeding a dog only dry food and feeding the same food continuously is one of the most unhealthy things an owner can do for their animal.
Switching foods does not cause digestive upset in a healthy dog. If your dog gets loose stools when switching food – it’s unhealthy. One of the main reason dogs develop weak digestive systems (become unhealthy) are because they are fed the same food daily. A dog that eats a wide variety of foods will have a strong digestive system and a healthy colony of bacteria in its gut. I feed my dogs a homemade raw diet and they get something different at every meal with no issues. When I used to feed kibble I switched brands at the end of every bag (about every 3 weeks) and rotated canned food toppers daily with no issues. Many people are able to rotate foods frequently without problems because they have conditioned their dogs to have strong and healthy guts. Feeding the same food for extended periods of time is not healthy for a dog.
All of the brands you’ve been feeding are very low quality. The best diet for your dog is a raw diet. If you don’t want to go the raw route, try to find a kibble where atlesdt the first three ingredients are meat and that is grain free. Some quality brands are orijen, acana, taste of the wild, natures variety, and blue wilderness. Another great option is freeze dried food which all you do is add water and it re hydrates. A great one is the honest kitchen. When transitioning dry dog foods, gradually mix in the new food and then add more new food and less of your old brand over a one or two week period. If you are switching from a low quality to high quality, you may experience some loose stool at first, but you will be very happy because you don’t have to feed as much because there are more nutrients in higher quality foods. Hope that helps!
Hi DieselJunki –
Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.
Safarisam- You must remove the crap food- I do not care what anyone says about “Dogs evolving” to omnivores. Their bodies can not digest grain and its the dog food we have fed our babies that gave them this human disease. As small as your baby is you can feed a raw or cook a rare-ish diet pretty cheap. Remove all kibble and all commercial dog food period. I have almost killed my dog experimenting with dog food.. Bottom line is ALL dog food is crap if it has fillers of any kind and ash.. There should not be things like “crude analyses” in food of any kind.
Again I can not express enough that unless the dog food is pre-packaged raw, there is NO SAFE DOG FOOD on the market for diabetic dogs – its not safe for non- diabetic dogs but thats another thread.
Feel free to contact me if you want.. I have years experience with this issue and I understand what you are feeling right now. Its so confusing and scary..
Hi weimlove!
Glad to hear Shadow is finally on a 100% raw diet 🙂
It looks like you’re off to a great start! Just wanted to remind you that a dog Shadow’s size should be getting 400 i.u. vitamin d per day – some good sources are cod liver oil, cage free eggs, kefir, some varieties of yogurt and cottage cheese (check the label), oily fish (sardines, mackerel, salmon) and beef liver. 10% of his diet should also consist of organ meat (5% liver, 5% other organs) – this can be fed as one or two completely organ meals per week or small amounts of organ meat can be fed each day. And don’t forget variety once you make his next menu – lots of different types of meat and different fruits and vegetables.
Unfortunately, I can’t help you too much with the storage issue. Maybe invest in some tupperware containers? It would probably be cheaper in the long run rather than using ziplock bags all the time. All my dogs eat through a batch of food in one day so I don’t have to worry about freezing portions.
Hi everyone!
I have finally got Shadow eating a COMPLETELY raw diet 🙂
Since this is his first week of no kibble at all, I wanted to share my menu with you all and see what you think. Please keep in mind that this menu has extra bone in it to help keep his stool firm over the transition and next week I will add less bone.
What I did so far is pre-package a week’s worth of meals in freezer bags.
The meals include:
– 1 half of a chicken leg quarter
–1 small peice of a chicken back
– 1 chicken wing
– 3/4 of a pound of ground chicken
– 3/4 pound of sweet potatoes
– 100 iu vitamin E
– 1 tsp of a kelp/alfalfa mix powder (petkelp)
– 1 pump of fish oil that also contains a small amount of vitamin E
Shadow is given this meal twice a day. So far, his stool has been great, and extremely small! He also seems more excited to eat his meals, and I love the fact that it cleans his teeth too! Does anyone have an easier way for storing meals? The freezer bags are kinda pricey! Thanks!
I have Cavaliers, who by nature of the breed, can have heart problems. One of mine has a murmur, last time assessed at a grade 2. As far as I know, atm, the other one is currently fine. My oldest was heart clear until about 10 years old and then I was told she had a grade 5 murmur and probably heart disease. She actually never really had any problems of note, though, with her heart. She just recently passed to the bridge at 12 years old, but it wasn’t her heart….she had a neurological disease (SM) that Cavs also are prone to and that caused her death. Actually, having a Cavalier reach double digits in age is great! Anyway, on to your question……while I don’t feed a “heart diet” I do try to feed as top of the line food as I can (which my holistic vet is fine with). I know that prey raw or homemade is probably the best, but either is not my choice. I have fed a variety of different kinds of food over the years. I’ve fed premade raw, freeze dried raw, dehydrated raw, canned and kibble. I’m currently feeding Acana Singles (Duck & Pear or Lamb & Apple) topped with either Primal or Stella & Chewy’s freeze dried raw or The Honest Kitchen Embark. Sometimes I top with canned foods like Instinct, Wellness Stews, Weruva, etc. I was using Merrick grain free kibble until I had an issue with a bag of the Pork grain free (strange looking and colored kibble pieces caused diarrhea). I’ve also used Merrick canned but have decided to go away from them, too, as they contain carageenan, and ingredient I’m not too comfortable with. I do know about BPA in cans, as well, and that’s why I like the freeze dried or THK. With each kind of food I have often supplemented with a heart targeted supplement (again at the advice of my holistic vet, who btw carries Nature’s Variety in his clinic). Some of my favorites are: Bio Cardio, Cardio Strength, Nature’s Farmacy heartwise and Standard Process Cardio Support. I’ve also given pre/probiotics and enzymes which I think can’t hurt. The heart supplements often contain things like COQ10, hawthorn, taurine, L-Carnitine and omega 3’s. You could also supplement these things individually. Please note that I’m not a vet, but a furmom with babies that more often than not have heart issues. I hope this helps some and gives you something to think about. 🙂
Hi Hound Dog Mom,
So here is the chicken dinner ingredients:
Big Country Chicken Dinner
Ingredients
Ground chicken with bone, beef liver, fruit and vegetable puree. Garlic and kelp.
A complete and balanced meal choice. Protein-max 16%. Fat-min 12%. Moisture-62%. Fibre-2.6%
The chicken dinner has the highest fat, the rest are not over 10%. Of course I don’t really know how to convert it to dry matter basis, I did see how on here but I think my calculation was way off, lol!
Other than the fish I don’t see any fish oil added, would you say to add in the krill oil? I think they want you to feed the fish dinner every now and again, but they use cod, haddock or sole.
I guess I will hold off the joint supplement, do rmb’s help supply glucosamine and chrondroitin? He is getting his first chicken wing for his evening meal! I am so excited, I showed it to him and he wanted to take it so I think he will like the true raw diet! But he is still young with no issues so far, so since he is getting it naturally I think he will be good for now!
Thanks for all your help HDM! He is at me right now for his chicken wing!
And I like your schedule for vaccinating, I think I personally would feel better if he got his one year shots, and then I might titer him at 2 and go from there.
Ugh, I have a Newfoundland with CONSTANT ear problems and I feed a no grain, but it’s kibble.. I’ve been thinking about going raw with my dogs diets but I’m vegan and the thought of actually handling the meat makes me ill. ( AT least with a kibble I can pretend 😉 )
Hi Shihtzumim20 –
Krill oil is great because it’s low in contaminants and contains a very potent naturally occuring antioxidant called astaxanthin. If the food already has added omega 3’s (fish oil) use the krill oil sparingly because, yes, you can give your dog too much of a good thing. Here’s a dosage chart for fish/krill oil:
-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.
When your dog is on a raw diet that includes bones and cartilage there won’t be as much of a need for a joint supplement because bones/cartilage are full of naturally occurring glucosamine and chondroitin. If you have a senior dog or a dog with an orthopedic problem, however, a supplement may still be necessary. After heavy activity my senior gets a few capsules of Wysong’s Arthegic (my favorite joint supplement). It’s marketed as a human supplement but great for dogs too. Wysong even includes a dosage chart for dogs on their website. It contains boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate.
I personally vaccinate my dogs as puppies (parvo/distemper at 8 weeks, 11 weeks, 14 weeks and a rabies at 16 weeks) and then I vaccinate 1 year after their last puppy booster. I don’t vaccinate again other than rabies every 3 years to comply with law. This is something you need to research yourself and decide what you are comfortable doing with your dog. Some people vaccinate every year, some every 3 years, some like I do, some only do puppy shots and others don’t vaccinate at all. Check out healthypets.mercola.com- Dr. Becker has some great information and videos on vaccinating.
Hi all. I’m new to this site. I was wondering, what do you do when you are doing a roadtrip/travel with your dog and you’re feeding the raw food diet? How are you able to continue with the raw feeding while on the road?
I have an 11-year-old Lab who has battled ear problems all of her life. The vet said it’s a yeast problem. Now she has some raw spots on her skin, the skin on her belly and privates is very dark, and she’s covered in lumps. I had a Golden before that never had lumps and only an occasional ear problem. I also have a 7-year-old Beagle who’s had exactly one ear infection in her entire life.
I changed her over to Blue Buffalo Salmon about 5 months ago and it seems to have eased up, but it’s still there. And I’ve spent THOUSANDS of dollars over the years on vet bills for the same problem, over and over again. (Vet #1 always found it necessary to run the same expensive tests every time I brought her in–“We can’t be sure it’s the same issue..”, and after 10 years, I switched to Vet #2. Vet #1 also charged $18 to examine their teeth {approximately 15.5 seconds}, but I digress…)
What can I do to cure her of this? Am I doing something wrong? After reading a lot of your posts, I feel terrible that a change of diet could possibly have prevented those horrible lumps/tumors. Any advice would be most appreciated–I want her golden years to be as comfortable as possible as she has been a loyal and beautiful friend 🙂
Hi kmarron –
Vitamin D exists in two forms – cholecalciferol (D3, occurs in animals) and ergocalciferol (D2, found predominantly in plants). Most animals are capable of fulfilling a portion of their vitamin D requirements by producing cholecalciferol in their skin when exposed to sunlight – dogs can do this but they aren’t quite as efficient at it as people so this is why it’s important that they receive supplemental vitamin D in the diet. D2 and D3 are generally considered equally potent for most species, however I believe D3 is the more natural choice. My dogs get their vitamin D in whole food form only – I believe that whole foods are better assimilated by the body and less likely to result in toxicity so I avoid all vitamin supplements. My dogs get their daily dose of vitamin D3 from cod liver oil which has 400 IU naturally occurring vitamin D3 per teaspoon, cage free eggs with have about 50 IU vitamin D3 per egg, Kefir which has 100 IU per cup and beef liver which has about 50 IU vitamin D per 4 oz. Oily fish such as sardines, salmon and mackerel are rich in vitamin D as well. If you prepare a properly balanced raw diet there should be no need to add synthetic supplements.
Are chicken feet good to feed as part of their diet? My dogs are 15 lbs each and turkey necks are too big for them.
I am following Dr. Becker’s Real Food recipe for my dog’s raw diet. She says to add dry vitamin D 400 IU as a supplement. Which type of vitamin D is best? Thanks for your input!
Yes I looked at a few of the commercial frozen raw but the prices they want for those are simply ludicrous. I don’t care how much the dog eats.
We have been warming the food, sometimes it helps and other times it doesn’t.
I appreciate the feedback.
The Stella & Chewy’s frozen raw, in Surf n Turf, is really tasty for dogs. My picky dog loves it. Kind of pricey, but Poms are small and don’t eat that much. LOL.
You also can try warming up her food, old dogs lose their sense of smell and therefore their sense of taste, so they don’t eat as well.
Dump the Ol’ Roy. Corn is it’s main ingredient and corn is high on the glycemic index, meaning it can raise your dog’s blood sugar levels, which I’m sure you know is not good for a diabetic dog. Besides that there’s not a single ingredient in Ol Roy that makes me say “well that’s a good one”.
A popular dry food we recommend is Solid Gold Holistique Blendz, as it’s low protein/low fat food that isn’t full of corn, soy, by-product, or generically named meats/meals.
Some people believe that even a diabetic dog should have a high QUALITY protein diet, that is also low in carbs, but I’ll let our raw food feeders cover the benefits of that one since I’m not as familiar with the subject.
Just wanted to say that NV has a recall on their raw chicken diets.
Hi again guys,
I know you are probably very sick of me by now, and I completely understand, but I am hoping you can help me out one last time. (my disqus was just shihtzumom, sorry for the confusion) I have been looking at all the commercial raw diets, mostly the ones I like are Carnivora and K9 Naturals(any thoughts?). I really do like these and am hoping my local pet store can order them in, as other stores that are further away carry them. I am definitely not impressed with NV and would like to stay away from their foods.
But I have been looking at pre-mixes. I am worried that Dawson is not getting quality ingredients with NV. Where do you get meat from? I mean I could just go to the grocery store and pick up some meat, but is that good meat? Like it won’t necessarily be antibiotic or hormone free and grass fed. Do you buy lean meats? Where do you find the organs needed for the urban wolf pre-mix?
And with home-made I was looking at the transitioning to raw thread and it had some great information! But I find it confusing when trying to translate the amounts for a 13 pound shih tzu! The menu Hound Dog Mom posted sounded fairly straight forward, but I still worry I would somehow mess up the balancing. I really do want the best for Dawson, but am just so confused. I don’t want any carcinogenics in his food or other questionable ingredients, basically I am wondering what you think about the two commercially made, and then where you find good quality meats. I am very worried over what I am feeding him and want him to live the longest, healthiest life possible. Thanks for all your information!
High protein is not necessarily bad for kidneys, as there is plenty of research out there showing the opposite. So don’t ward off higher protein foods, whether that be kibble or raw or whatever. Remember… all dogs are different, just like you and I. What works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another, and vice versa.
Without seeing the exact foods you fed, not just the brand of foods, I unfortunately can’t make solid recommendations. But it sounds like you’ve gone through enough, so perhaps just going with home made would be ideal. There’s a forum here for raw diets, which gives a number of recipes. So check that out, as it’s important that you give your pup a balanced diet. I know that doing homemade incorrectly can lead to many problems.
So I’m a soon to be 16 YO pomeranian who has lived a good life. I was brought up on kibbles but then a few years back got tired of them so I started eating Avoderm canned regularly, while snacking on kibbles. About 6 months ago I started to dislike Avoderm so I was eating a variety of other canned foods. Even with that though, they were trying a number of different labels and 75% of them I wouldn’t touch.
Now unfortunately I don’t seem to like any of them so my parents started cooking various dishes. Even with that though I may like what they give me but only for a day . . . if that. They have tried both chicken and turkey, boiled, baked, or fried, mixed with any of potatoes, brown rice, green beans, peas, carrots, and oatmeal. They can’t seem to figure out what I like or need.
So the last couple days it has just been straight turkey or chicken with a little greek yogurt in the morning. My dad fried me up some chicken liver in olive oil the other day and I LOVED that but I know I shouldn’t eat too much of that. Unfortunately once he tried mixing it in with some white rice and green beans I wouldn’t touch it. I know they have looked at some of the freeze dried raw but at $4/day seems pricey for a lil ol’ gal like me and there is no guarantee I’ll even eat it. I know they have also ordered some liquid vitamins to help provide some needed vitamins. They are trying really hard but running out of ideas.
What else can they do to give me what I need?
@Bryan at this point your level of ignorance is reaching a comical level. You have done nothing but spout opinions with no basis behind them at all. I at least have backed up my position with an article posted by a well respected veterinary school. I will take what they have to say over the opinion of some random label reader on the internet.
@Hounddogmom. If you want to argue raw vs. kibble that is a completely different argument. The original poster asked a question about dry foods, and that is what I responded to. Raw diets have their advantages for sure, and anyone that has the time and dedication to go the raw route gets my respect. Although feeding kibble may not be the best route, it is the most convenient for the majority of pet owners out there.
The point I have been trying to make is this, don’t fall for the typical bs that dog food manufacturers try to throw out there. All of this talk about grain free, and no byproducts etc. is nothing but marketing. What is important, as I said, is the nutrients found in the food. Royal Canin, although they may use controversial ingredients, spends more money than any manufacturer out there on research, quality control, and feeding trials. This isn’t opinion, this is fact. I much prefer a company that is going to invest their time and money actually trying to find a scientific basis for the amount of each individual nutrient they put into their food, rather than one of the “holistic companies” that bases the formulation of their diets on a preference to certain ingredients.
Hi riverratdad –
This is EXTREMELY unbalanced – so unbalanced I don’t even know where to start giving suggestions. Get your dogs on a quaility commercial food IMMEDIATELY. It’s only been a month but if you continue this your dogs WILL start to suffer – they’ll develop nutritional deficiencies and their organs could fail. Research before starting a homemade diet. It’s not rocket science to make a balanced homemade diet – I do – but it does take some research. Check out the raw diet area of the forum, under the suggested menus thread I have several of my dogs’ menus posted. Invest in a good book suck as “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown or “Real Food For Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker – both books include AAFCO compliant recipes.
Hi everyone, I’m wanting to add some raw fish to shadows diet. What fish is safe to feed him? Thanks!
That’s a big false. In general, breeders aren’t the best source of nutritional advice. Many are under the false assumption that high protein foods cause growth issues in large and giant breed puppies. However, studies show there is absolutely no link between high protein foods and developmental orthopedic issues. What has been linked to development orthopedic issues is high levels of calcium, overfeeding, overexercising and – the number one cause – poor breeding (I hope your pup’s parents had their OFA clearances!). I raise my bloodhound pups (another giant breed) on high protein foods with controlled calcium levels. My current pup (now 7 months old) has been on a high protein raw diet (45-55% protein) since a brought her home at 8 weeks and she is having nice slow and controlled growth. There is a topic area here dedicated to large and giant breed puppy nutrition and here you’ll find links to several articles on the matter written by veterinarians and nutritionists and a list of recommended foods.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
+1 for the Tripett! My puppy cannot turn it down and he will turn his nose up at kibble. I could put some on a piece of poop and he’d think it was the greatest thing on earth (of course puppies eat anything anyways… so not really sure that was a good comparison! 😛 ).
I’ve been thinking myself to try and get into the raw diet for my puppy but want to be sure I know the ins and outs before I take the plunge. So for now I will just keep adding Tripett to his food until I feel comforatble with my knowledge of a raw diet. I do Hound Dog Moms suggestion with a couple spoonfuls and some warm water and mixing. I bought a 12 pack at a store for 10% off because I bought it in bulk. After you try your first can look for deals like that. Most mom and pop dog food stores will have deals like that I’ve found in my search for foods.
Hi Stewiesmom1 –
If you want to continue with commercial food I’d recommend mixing in some Tripett. Most dogs can’t resist green tripe. Just mash some up with warm water to make a “gravy” and make sure all the kibble is coated.
Homemade is great for picky eaters too and is – imo – the healthiest way to feed a dog. Pre-made raw/cooked foods are very cost prohibitive and making everything from scratch is much cheaper (and higher quality). It’s not rocket science to formulate a balanced diet, but it does take a little research. If you check out the recommended menus on the raw food topic area you can see what I feed my dogs. Dogaware.com is a great resource. Dr. Becker has a great book called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” and Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” is a great read as well – both books include AAFCO compliant recipes. There are also pre-mixes (such as THK’s Preference, Sojo’s, Birkdale, Urban Wolf, etc.) that contain all the vegetables, fruits and vitamins your dog needs and all you have to add it fresh raw or cooked meat.
Hi there.
I have been reading this forum and pet food reviews for quite some time, and feel like I know some of you quite well.
I am a dog mom, 48, married to a retired carpenter. We have two labs, Hank, yellow and is 10 1/2…and Dewey, black, who is just over 7 now.
Hank has always been itchy, required bathing etc fairly regularly. When he turned about 2 he started getting interdigital cysts on his front feet pretty regularly. ( two or three times a year). We did regular bouts of Cepha ( my vet would sell it to us in 500 pill bottles to use as needed. ) at the age of 9 he started having constant anal gland issues on top of the skin stuff. then about a year ago, out of frustration over an episode withnhis feet that just would not heal…I took him to the local
Holistic vet. We went over everything…diet, vaccines etc. she told me that innova ( the food I had always used) had been bought out and since we did not support P&G…we switched to wellness senior, and Merrill canned. We did laser treatments on his foot, and it finally healed.
Long story short, then the black dog Dewey started regurgitating his food, and bile. After a few months of this we decided to go back to innova, since Dewey tolerated it. Well!! After a few days Hank starts tearing himself up, licking his butt, and his ears flare up. We had not even noticed that he wasn’t doing that while on wellness. So we have two dogs and no food that they can share. So we decided to switch again…this time to Evo, red meat, despite being a P&G product…and they both did fine. Dewey not harfing it up, Hank not tearing himself apart. ( and no sign of foot blowouts).
Around this time I started experiment with raw frozen patties…NV lamb, duck etc. they seems to like it, but I did not like the smell. I started reading more, and bought some nice grass fed heart, tongue, etc at we would give them, along with their kibbles and Merrick. And I read…mostly here, and slowly over the last year we have moved further from kibble and more to primal raw frozen (duck, lamb, venison and rabbit), raw ground tripe, local pastured beef , pre and probiotic and hk preference. I still do Evo red meat once a day most week days, because DH prefers to let me do all the raw feeding.
No foot blow outs in over a year, which is a miracle….both dogs seem to be thriving and I am convinced this is the best for them and us.
We had one blip in the road last winter, when I decided I was going to go prey model and finally gave the boys their first chicken leg raw. Hank ended up sick the next day with a horrible case of gastritis that had him pretty sick for a few weeks. (holy giant vet bill!). I suspect the fat from the skin may have been the culprit…but I am gun shy now. Dewey was fine.
So…that is my introduction!!! Lol.
my question is this….we switched from primal to Darwin’s recently due to cost. Darwin’s product looks lovely, and they seem to like it. I fed the beef first, and then yesterday they had chicken. Today hank has gooey looking stool, not quite diarrhea but mucousy. Dewey’s is fine. We have not had this experience with any of the other foods, and yesterday his stools were fine.
Have any of you used Darwin’s had a similar experience??
Hello Everyone 🙂
I thank God for this site & Forum! I have a female JRT, she will be 6 yrs this March 2013. I have transitioned my beautiful JRT to “RAW” 9 months ago. I changed her diet because she wok me up at 3am in the morning whinning, scratching and the strangest thing I ever saw and experienced in my life. Her skin under her coat was a inflamed red and couldn’t believe how much she resembled a pug due to the whelps, bumps and hives she had all over her body. I could not imagine what could have brought this on??? I rushed her to the aspca emergency costing me a not so pretty penny! She was given an injection & some allergy meds. I held her and rocked her as the whipppering subsided.
Now nearly a year, vet visits, excessive shedding, scratching, ear infections, paw sores, excessive licking, more vet visits, more money, more money, 3 months wearing an e-collar. Just miserable. So as a MOM, I decided to do some research for these allergies she was yet properly diagnosed for and I read that an ancestral diet would be the best thing for her, so I have tried several brands from Steve’s to Nature’s Instinct, Darwin’s, Bravo’s Stella & Chewy, the list goes on. I had to elimnate dry kibble that consisted of glutens, grains, white & sweet potatoe, rice, flax seed, which increased the yeast growth in her ears which was almost like a cauliflower shap from the scratching, bleeding and infections. So here I am looking for much needed help because her allergies started up again. She scratched so bad under her front leg that she developed an infection there as well! she wouldn’t even let me touch her. She is still eating raw, but I don’t see any positive results nor changes. I currently have her on Instinct’s “Rabbit & Lamb” Buying anything and ordering from any retailer is practically hard to order due to the location of where I live. I have been reading the forum thread here & see that Primal & Bravo is the hot topic. I have her on Dr. Karen Becker’s Krill oil, Ubiquinol & probiotics. She is still shedding excessively! I can make another dog with all the hair on the floor & furniture of my home. I vaccum 3 times a week. I even had to change the shampoo I was bathing her with. If anyone comes by to visit, I tell them don’t wear black! LOL. I also have a Yorkshire Terrier, thankfully no problems with him Amen! So to all you wonderful people here, I could sure use your advice on what I can and should do??? As far as putting her back on Primal or Bravo’s???
Thank You ALL Sincerely,
Konamisan
Thanks for the info. HDM! Interesting..I’ve been toying with the idea of feeding Nature’s Logic to my crew. The dogs are eating Merrick grain free for their kibble atm. They love it and all are doing very, very well with it. No allergy issues like tearing, anal glands, etc. I’ve also been using Merrick cans (concerned about the carageenan, of course), S. Nourish cans, and recently some Instinct cans as toppers. As I mentioned before on the recent comments section, I’ve also fed some freeze dried raw. The dogs get Fresh Digest half/dosed daily (prebiotics and plant enzymes). Lucy gets Standard Process Renal Support, too. I’m currently not using any extra omegas. My cat is eating Instinct Raw Boost kibble (which she loves) and Merrick, S. Nourish, Fromm, Soulistic, and recently some Tiki Cat cans. I tried Instinct cans with her but she absolutely will not eat them! I find this strange….maybe it’s the smell, texture, or even flavor? She is kinda picky. I know that Nature’s Logic is technically not grain free but I like the fact they don’t use synthetic vits. I might start wih the canned as toppers for the dogs since I do so like the Merrick kibble for them. My cat also has some issues I deal with. She has a pharyngeal polyp (husband won’t okay $ for surgery…but that’s another story) and she does do some obsessive over grooming (back only). I leaning toward allergies (re the overgrooming) but she is very finicky and won’t even try the limited ingredient diets I’ve tried (Natural Balance, various flavors). I believe her sense of smell is not the greatest with the polyp and the LIDs are usually bland. I’m thinking of trying Instinct’s LIDs with her, though. Except for the overgrooming on her back her coat is like silk! I know that overgrooming can be an OCD thing in cats, too, and she does seem to have that personality (she’s a Tortie). Anyway, I think I’m gonna get some Nature’s Logic for her, too, and see if she likes it and does better without the regular vits. She also gets some freeze dried raw. Sorry for going on and on….haha, just wanted to vent. Thanks! 🙂
Hi Chloralu –
HPP stands for “High Pressure Processing.” HPP is a process in which extremely high pressure is applied uniformly around and throughout a raw food product. HPP is used to destroy bacteria and is said to do minimal damage to the flavor, texture and color of raw food (although if you ever buy a product that has undergone HPP and compare it to a non-HPP product you’ll notice that there is a sort of “rind” formed around most HPP products and the color is noticeably grayish – at least in my experience). HPP also extends shelf life. All the benefits of raw food without the risk of bacterial contamination, sounds great right? The downside is that beneficial bacteria, some enzymes and some functional proteins are destroyed as well. Because the “friendly” bacteria is destroyed along with the “bad” bacteria if the food is ever stored improperly and happens to get contaminated with “bad” bacteria there is no “friendly” bacteria to keep the “bad” bacteria in check and prevent it from growing out of control. Oftentimes re-contamination can happen during the manufacturing process (like during all the recent kibble recalls for salmonella contamination). The raw foods that are HPP are: Stella & Chewy’s, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Primal (poultry varieties only). Individuals with immune-compromised dogs may have no other option than HPP if they wish to feed raw, however for a healthy dog I think HPP should be avoided. A healthy dog is fully equipped to handle the bacteria present in raw meat. There are also steps that can be taken to destroy bacteria without altering the nutritional value of the food: apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, raw garlic and alfalfa all have antibacterial properties (not to mention a myriad of other health benefits) and can easily be added to raw food for those concerned about bacterial contamination. If your dog is on a raw diet it’s also a good idea to supplement with a high quality multi-strain probiotic – this will keep the colony of good bacteria in your dog’s gut strong so if bad bacteria ever does come around the dog will be better able to combat it.
Dear Group,
Thanks for this forum. I’m new to it, so could advise, what is HPP? Went organic 10 years ago after Science Diet gave my airedale a tennis ball-sized on her kneecap. Have been organic/raw for the K9ers about 6 years and want to take it all the way. Any info, please. Many thanks!
I wouldn’t consider a bully stick to be a high calorie treat – at least not for an active dog. My dogs each eat about 2,500 calories per day each and they all get either a bully stick, dried trachea chew or pig ear before bed. I estimate their chew treat to be around 200 calories – this accounts for only 8% of their daily caloric intake. Obviously the owner of a small breed or couch potato dog would have to be more conscientious – but this goes for any treats and meals too. I believe that natural chews, such as bully sticks, are – aside from raw meaty bones – the most species-appropriate chew for dogs. Chewing is healthy for dogs – it helps to clean their teeth and to stimulate them mentally by satisfying their natural urge to chew. Feeding a natural type chew is much healthier – imo – than any of those junk food chews on the market like Greenies, Dentastix and Busy Bones that are loaded with carbohydrates and often contain gluten, corn, gmos, sugar, propylene glycol, artificial colorings, etc. etc.
As far as natural treats being contaminated with bacteria like salmonella – this is old news. It’s been known for years and years that natural treats often are contaminated with bacteria. Does the fact that a bully stick may be contaminated with salmonella pose a risk to your pet’s health? I don’t think so and history supports that it isn’t a risk.
Excerpt from: “The Human Health Implications of Salmonella-Contaminated Natural Pet Treats and Raw Pet Food” [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16447116]
“To date there have been no published reports of salmonellosis occurring in dogs as a result of exposure to natural pet treats.”
Just as a healthy dog should be able to handle the bacteria present in raw meat, a healthy dog should be able to handle the bacteria that may or may not be present on a natural chew. Every dog I’ve ever owned (even as a kid) ate natural chews regularly and my current dogs have been on a raw meat diet for over a year and a half – I’ve never had a dog get sick and . People just need to use common sense here. If you have a small and/or inactive dog – limit their chews to once or twice a week. Don’t give an immune-compromised dog a natural treat (or raw meat) as their immune system ay be too weak to handle the bacteria. Know that your treat came from a reputable manufacturer. Always wash your hands after handling natural pet treats and disinfect any surfaces that they touch.
Having witnessed quite a few dietary trends in my years, I offer only the advice to keep an open mind. As Dr. Mike says elsewhere on this blog,we have to be careful not to fall into “nutrition-ism.” I would define nutrition-ism as allowing feelings from other segments of life to overly influence how we view nutritional information. Just one example of that would be to insist that dogs should have a vegetarian diet. (Nope, sounds silly to me!)
I’d like to respectfully suggest that having SOME carbohydrates in your dog’s’ diets is not advocating for a high carbohydrate diet. Further, vegetables have starches in them so we’re not just talking about grain Generalizing about all dogs is not helpful when each of us has one or more specific dogs, i.e. real individuals. We humans have different digestive and dietary experiences, right???? I know what my dogs can and cannot digest, and will continue to vary their diets to get them the nutrition they need. I don’t give my dogs grains in significant amounts, but their kibble does have carbs from sweet potatoes. And lots of vitamin A!!
I’ve met several dog owners who feed kibble to one dog and raw to another, based on real individual experience with each critter. Let’s continue to love one another and our dogs, and not get tensed up about dietary concepts.
Pax vobicsum from Richmond, Va, Y’all!
Bill
I’ll start you off then the rest will help you, switch to a high quality grain free food if not raw diet and also probiotics will keep yeast in check which may be the dandruff, a friend of mine’s dog had “dandruff” turned out to be a over flow of yeast, did the above and after a few weeks it cleared. but these are just suggestions. hope this helps
Hi sheeklouch –
Orijen is a wonderful food (it’s actually the best dry food out there – imo), however (unfortunately) none of their formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies – they are all much too high in calcium. For this reason, I’ve never fed Orijen to any of my pups but I have fed it to my adult with great success.
Gertie my now two year old female ate The Honest Kitchen (Zeal, Love, Thrive) and Tripett until she was 8 months old. Mabel, my newest addition, who just turned 7 months old has been on a controlled calcium homemade raw diet since she came to me at 8 weeks (my other two dogs eat raw now as well).
I think that most dogs do well on high protein foods (Gertie and Mabel both ate >40% protein on average) – if your dog is having loose stools with high protein foods I’d suggest trying a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin, a multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzymes at each meal.
Assuming you want to stick with a dry food, here is a list of recommended foods. Sometimes it’s trial and error and you may need to try a few foods before you find on that works for your dog. Some dogs are just more sensitive than others.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit
My mixed breed, Lucy Mae, has a “mass” on her bladder. We don’t know yet if it’s malignant….didn’t want to do any biopsy yet (found it on an x-ray) because she’s acting great and kidney/bladder numbers seem okay for now. She’s also turning 12 years old and with her age, we’re in a wait and see mode. Anyway, she is eating Merrick grain free kibble topped with various canned food or freeze dried raw and water added. She is getting Standard Process Renal Support per my holistic vet. She also gets another urinary chew by Naturvet a couple times a week. So far, I have not reduced protein or anything like that and she’s doing fine. I know this may not be the same as your dog, but I still think a higher protein diet is best. Of course, I’m not a vet.
Oh, it’s fine – I just wanted to clarify about the hip dysplasia in case you didn’t understand. Some people actually think it’s something old dogs get.
All healthy dogs should be on a high protein diet, even the less active ones. I’d look for a grain-free food with at least 30% protein – supplementing with high quality canned food and/or healthy leftover and/or fresh raw is a great way to improve the quality of kibble as well.
James- Although I respect that you are successfully managing your diabetes, dogs are different than humans and I think your suggestions are questionable for someone who doesn’t have a vet well-versed in diabetes. First of all, nph insulin most closely resembles the insulin dogs naturally produce which is different from humans. Most dogs are well maintained on this type of insulin and are not”impossible” to control at all. The short acting insulin(R) is sometimes needed for dogs that have insulin resistance but this dog has not had enough time to be regulated and to determine if resistance is the issue. Regardless of the insulin, diabetic dogs should be fed the same amount at the same time every day. To imply anything else is ridiculous. People who have had long term success managing their dog’s disease live by this principle. As far as food goes, a variety of different diets have been proven to work well for a diabetic dog but with Cushings (or pancreatitis like my dog) , a high fat diet is not recommended. A diet with “cheap” carbs is, of course, not good either. I prefer a food like Nutrisca because there is no potato or tapioca or rice or grain and my dog (dx five years now) thrives on it like no other food. Complex carbs work well with the nph insulin and they are necessary to have stable glucose levels throughout the day. There is an excellent article in the Whole Dog Journal which addresses diabetic diets and includes case studies of many dogs on a wide range of diets- raw, commercial, prescription, home-cooked and the success stories of those dogs. Diabetes is not a one size fits all with dogs and many times, you can analyze foods and labels and ingredients until you are blue in the face but you don’t get the results that you should. Personally, I think there are so many factors – metabolism, age, stress, infection or disease, etc that factor in.
James – While I agree with some of what you say in theory, it doesn’t always hold true in reality. I think Kristi probably would get better results with a long-acting insulin such as R, but without a vet who is well versed in diabetes, it is a dangerous proposition. Comparing diabetes in humans to diabetes in dogs is helpful in many respects as there are similarities, the flaw with that is dogs can’t communicate in terms we can understand until trouble is there. They can’t say they are feeling bad or shaky and short of checking their sugar many times a day, there is no way to know. If you can stay home non-stop with your dog, then great but most people don’t have that luxury. Also, to say diabetes is impossible to control with nph insulin is just wrong. I have done it for five years now and there are many others out there who have – in fact most dogs are maintained on nph. And just because someone uses a long acting insulin doesn’t mean you throw routine out the window. These dogs are best maintained on the same amount of food at the same time every day. As far as low glycemic foods are concerned, I have found just through my personal experience, that my dog’s blood sugar is just consistently lower and better since she is on Nutrisca. She feels better, looks better and it helps with her allergies. I actually tried Evo when she was first diagnosed and her bg was sky-high on it. The one thing I have found is that diabetic dogs react differently to different food. There was a series in the Whole Dog Journal last year about diabetic diets and the interesting part was there were many different case studies of diabetic dogs and almost all of them were on completely different foods. Some were on commercial diets, home cooked, raw, and even prescription diets but the owners all had great success by finding the food that worked for their dog. You can analyze the numbers and ingredients until your face is blue but if the theoretical “best” food doesn’t give you results, then you have to consider how your dog processes insulin and food.
Kristi, I would find an online forum for dogs with Cushings and/or diabetes so you can talk to people who are going through what you are with their dogs. There are tons of knowledgeable people out there who can really tell you about Cushings and diabetes who live it everyday.
SOURCES OF BIOTIN, FROM A WEBSITE ON DIET FOR PREGNANT MOTHERS, SURELY APPLICABLE TO DOGS AS WELL:
Swiss Chard – This green plant is a top producer of biotin. It’s also a great part of a healthy salad choice that will provide antioxidants and help balance a diet.
Carrots – Carrots contain a supply of biotin, as well as beta-carotene, which helps with general eye health.
Almonds, Walnuts and Other Nuts – A variety of nuts supply the body with biotin, and are a portable way to get proteins and other nutrition into a diet.
Chicken Eggs – Eggs are a source of biotin, although it’s important to note that eating a diet unusually high in egg whites can actually be a catalyst for a biotin deficiency. That’s because a specific element in the egg whites binds to the element and prevents it from being distributed properly. It’s important to always consider how eggs are added to a diet in order to prevent this kind of vitamin deficiency.
Goat’s Milk and Cow’s Milk – In addition to calcium and other healthy items, milks are also a source of biotin for the body.
Berries and Fruits – Some types of berries, including strawberries and raspberries, can get the body a significant amount of biotin. These fruits also provide antioxidants and health benefits, as part of a natural, whole food approach to eating. Experts recommend buying local and organic when possible.
Halibut – In addition to being “brain food,” this fish also contains large amounts of biotin. Think about adding it as an occasional entre.
Vegetables – Other vegetables like onions, cucumbers and cauliflower all contain biotin, and are healthy ways to fit this vitamin into meals.
Hi wtjham –
A healthy dog should be able to switch foods cold turkey with minimal digestive upset. All three of my dogs eat a homemade raw diet and get something different at each meal, none have any issues. When my oldest dog used to eat kibble I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag (about every 3 weeks) and rotated through different canned food toppers daily with no issues. My newest pup (just turned 7 months old) came to me at 8 weeks on Pro Plan – I switched her to raw cold turkey and she had no problems. To decrease the chances that your pups experience digestive upset you may want to mix in a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and give a probiotic supplement during the first week or so of the switch. Good luck and congrats on the new pups!
Hi Marmaduke –
I just sat and typed a nice long response answering your questions, posted it and it disappeared (so if a duplicate response shows up later that’s why). 🙁
So here it goes again…
I get my meat from several sources. I occasionally buy meat from the grocery store, I order some hard to source items (such as certain organs and green tripe) from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore, I get unwanted meat (usually bone and organs) from hunters (my dad actually gave me a whole deer this year!) – but most of my meat comes from a wholesale distributor that supplies restaurants, grocery stores and large dog kennels. I have to order from the distributor in 300 lb. shipments but it’s worth it – I pay about half the price I’d pay at the grocery store. As for fish – be very careful! Certain types of fish can carry a parasite that causes salmon poisoning in dogs if the fish is fed raw (and no, it’s not just salmon that can carry this parasite). I rarely feed raw fish, occasionally I’ll feed raw sardines because I know they’re a safe fish but that’s about it.
To answer your question about organ meat – organ meat is as high, if not higher in protein than muscle meat. However, organ meat should only make up 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other organs. Organ meat is extremely nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to include in the dogs’ diet to supply certain vitamins and minerals, but the levels are so high that too much organ meat can be toxic. Keep in mind – green tripe, gizzards and heart are NOT organ meat (some people make the mistake of thinking they are, so I wanted to clarify to make sure you understood) and can be fed as muscle meat. Organ meat would include: liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, lungs and brain.
I wouldn’t feel too bad about not being able to get pre-made raw – I think homemade is much higher quality and you’re able to feed more variety and have better control over the ingredients. Formulating menus – while time consuming – has actually gotten fun for me, I think I’d get bored feeding pre-made! Here’s a link to some typical menus that I’d serve to my crew of three bloodhounds:
/forums/topic/menus/
2 months, 1 week ago
