[Jude N]

Hello,

My senior chihuahua/JRT mix had a bout of acute pancreatitis several years ago. He had bloodwork done a few months ago and didn’t have anything elevated enough that it concerned the veterinarian.

I’ve been trying to feed him a raw diet, but he only likes beef, and is clearly unhappy when he feels forced to eat anything else. He’d rather not eat for several days than eat pork, venison, duck, or chicken willingly. This inability to rotate him on proteins has me nervous about trying to stick with a “homemade” raw diet, and I’m looking to switch to commercial raw. Budget is a major concern for me.

There’s a good deal going on at Chewy’s right now for a food called Tylee’s. Here are the ingredients:

“Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Beef Heart, Ground Beef, Water (Sufficient For Processing), Beef Liver, Spinach, Broccoli, Zucchini, Sweet Potato, Mangos, Tricalcium Phosphate, Chia Seeds, Sunflower Oil, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Cod Liver Oil Powder, Dried Parsley, Ground Cinnamon, Dried Kelp, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Rosemary Extract, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate.”

I read in another post on this forum that it has a very high fat content…something like 34-38%. Yikes.

His pancreatitis attack was the result of a dogsitter feeding him a fatty, greasy, smoked ham bone that she had thought was a yummy treat for him. He was on a low-fat diet for several months afterwards.

Chip refuses kibble, wet food, re-hydrated raw, and Nature’s Instinct raw patties (I think he’s just bored of the Nature’s Instinct; he used to eat it well). Primal , THK, and Darwin’s are too expensive for me.

There’s another food called Ollie’s that I’m looking into, but I’m not thrilled about a couple of the ingredients (potatoes and peas, specifically).

Does anyone have any advice/experience on how long a pancreatic attack needs to be considered in a dog’s diet? Does anyone feed Tylee’s, or Ollie’s?

Thank you 🙂

[M N]

Thanks for the input.

A couple things…

I have heard several times about rotating foods, and I am certainly open to that. For those of you who do rotate, do you switch cold turkey between brands? I don’t want to have 2 or more open bags of food at once… I have switched flavors within brands cold turkey with no issues.

The biggest reason I am looking at the calcium and phosphorus levels of the “new” foods is because I do have another pup coming this fall. I would like to feed them both the same food as I really don’t want to have 2 open bags of food if I can avoid it.

I don’t think I will be switching to a maintenance formula as we don’t really have an “off season.” We do field and water training April-August, Hunting season runs September – December. He runs free for 20-30 minutes 5-7 times a day (we live in the country). In the summer we also do weekly hikes where I will cover 3-8 miles, and since he is “free” while doing this he will cover probably 3x that. We will start using a roading harness and dragging weight for at least a portion of these hikes in the next month or so. We don’t hike during hunting season, instead we hunt both upland and waterfowl several days a week. In the winter we snowshoe (again he is free to run while I follow the trails). The only time he has held a “5” on the condition scale for longer than a week was January through April when we were only running 3-4 times a month and he was eating a 32/18 . This is also why all the foods I am looking at are all 3600+ kcal/kg.

I didn’t even think about the amount of heavy metals that could be in the fish formulas. I suppose it makes sense though. Humans are cautioned on consuming too much fish for the same reason. I was not familiar with the CLP, unfortunately none of the brands I was looking at are listed.

I am not dead set on grain free, but I do want to limit the amount of grain I feed. I would be interested in hearing more about which grains have a high bio-availability for dogs.

I appreciate the additional brand suggestions as well. I have heard nothing but good things about Dr Tim’s and there are several formulas that I think would work for me, however it is not available locally and at $70 for a 40lb bag from Chewy it is cost prohibitive. I have looked at a lot of “premium” brands including Nutro, Canidae, Acana, Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Royal Canin, Orijen, and Merrick… Most were eliminated from serious consideration due to lack of local availability, cost, or simply not having a blend with the nutritional requirements I am looking for. It seems there are not many premium “performance” formulas out there.

Anyone see any issues with the brands/formulas I am looking at? Any other recommendations of similar foods?

[M N]

Hello, I have a 16 month old German Wirehaired Pointer. I am currently feeding him free-choice TOTW Wetlands formula. I started him on TOTW High Prairie Puppy at 7 weeks and switched to the adult Wetlands formula at around 9 months as we were struggling to keep weight on him. Currently on the Wetlands formula he will swing between a 3 and 5 on the 9 point scale, depending on how active we are that week. Overall I have been very happy with TOTW.

Lately (since about March-April) I have been hearing a lot about dogs getting sick on TOTW. Naturall,y this concerns me. Also, with summer upon us and the increased training and exercise that comes with it, it has been a little harder to keep weight on him. As summer progresses and we start conditioning for hunting season I suspect it will get even harder. This combines to have me again looking to change foods.

Initially when I was looking at switching I was looking at the Black Gold Salmon and White Potato because it was available locally and looked good on paper. We tried a bag this spring and he seemed to do okay on it, but we never fully transitioned as my local feed store stopped carrying it. I also considered Victor Nutra-Pro, but again there was no local supplier for it. When I mentioned this to the owner of the feed store he told me that if I wanted him to he would order either of them for me on their regular shipments, he just needed 1 week notice and would have it in for me.
I also looked at the Sportdog formulas this spring, but they didn’t ship directly to my area and the cost through Amazon was more than I was willing to pay. Now I see that Amazon has 50lb bags in the Large Breed and Active formulas, both of which are at a price that I find reasonable.

I understand that there are alot of quality foods out there, I am looking at these foods specifically due to quality, availability, and cost (under $1.50 a pound). Another reason I am looking to switch is I have another puppy coming this fall, and I feel TOTW has a higher calcium content than I would like to see for a large breed puppy. The 4 formulas I am looking at seem to be a better all around fit for me, with the exception of the large breed which the kibble may be a bit big for a puppy. The Victor may be higher protein than I want/need, and is not a grain free, but does advertise a higher percentage of protein from meat than Sportdog (90% vs 76%). The Sportdog Large Breed has a lower fat than content than the others (14% vs 18%) which leads me to believe it may not alleviate my weight maintenance struggle. 30/20 protein/fat seems to be the “standard” for active sporting dogs. I would prefer a grain free food, but obviously I am not dead set on it, otherwise I wouldn’t consider the Victor.

I am leaning heavily towards the Sportdog Active, assuming I can actually get it in 50lb bags. Which would you recommend and why?

$45/40lb – https://victorpetfood.com/product-items/nutra-pro/?portfolioCats=133%2C135%2C134%2C153%2C159%2C160%2C162

$35/30lb – http://blackgolddogfood.com/natural_grain_free_salmon_dog_food.htm

$72/50lb – https://www.sportdogfood.com/elite-grain-free-active-dog-puppy-30-18/

$67/50lb – https://www.sportdogfood.com/elite-grain-free-large-breed-30-14/

[HoundMusic]

“She has been eating a variety of mostly grain free foods her entire life with Taste of the Wild being her main food. I am not comfortable switching her to K/D for a few reasons but mainly because we aren’t even sure she has kidney disease and if she does it’s still the still early stage.”

While it may not be, and, in all likelihood, is not full blown kidney disease, you are playing a VERY dangerous game with high protein feeds in general, even more so in continuing to feed it when the kidney values are already somewhat high. I am well aware it’s not the protein itself that does the damage, but all sources of protein are high in phosphorous – meat based protein even higher, red meats especially.

Excess phosphorous in the body has two main effects. First, it must be filtered out through the kidneys, so too much, over an extended period of time, places a strain on the organs. Secondly, excess phosphorous robs calcium from the bones, and is a major cause of osteoporosis or general lack of bone density. Personally, I have never even dared feed anything over 28% protein to a working dog, because while it does provide energy, it places a great strain on the body, and hunting dogs in particular tend to overheat while running in warm weather on too much protein. I’ve run hounds on feeds that were 21% protein, and those dogs looked great & had energy to spare. Even active dogs do not need such extreme amounts of protein, fat and kcals in their food as many of the grain free diets have, and I believe some of these companies are unethical in the extreme for selling them 🙁

If you want my advice, I would go with the k/d food temporarily, re-test kidney values in a few weeks, and if they have improved, go with something else you feel more “comfortable” with, but keep the protein levels somewhere around 21-23%.

[kim w]

I’ve searched high and low but can’t find a review or any info on a new dog food brand I’ve found at Dollar General. I havent seen it anywhere else and the website looks to be under construction. They offer dry food, wet food, and treats. I’ve listed the ingredients below and would like to see how it fairs. Anybody have an opinion or could a review be done on this? Thank you.

Mossy Oak Nature’s Menu Super Premium Dog Food
Real Beef & Brown Rice Recipe
Ingredients: Beef, chicken meal, ground rice, soybean meal, whole grain corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), brown rice, corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp, natural chicken flavor, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, dehydrated alfalfa, zinc sulfate, iron oxide (color), titanium dioxode, dried peas, dried carrots, choline chloride, vitamine E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c), minerals (ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide), vitamins (vitamin a supplement, vitamin d-3 supplement, vitamin e supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin b12 supplement, folic acid).

[Eric Y]

I know I asked this before, but never got any direct answer. I thought I would try again since I’m still not sure which direction to go.
Can anyone recommend a specific dog food that meets the following criteria:
– 3.5 g of calcium per 1000 kcal or less
– 4 or 5 star food
– limited ingredient formula for sensitive stomachs
– appropriate for all life stages (1 year old French Mastiff)

[Eric C]

In two weeks we bring home my baby Australian Cattle Dog. My Yellow Lab is a little over a year old and she has been on Fromm Large Breed Puppy her entire life. I see that it is now a 4 star but thought it was a 5 star when we started her on it last year. My new boy will likely be just a little over 50 pounds but I think it might be wise to start him on a controlled calcium food as ACD can have hip issues. What foods in the 5 star category are the most popular here? Wellness, Orijen?

[noelle o]

I do not personally make my own vegan dog food…there are recipies out there. I buy my dog vet approved vegan kibble…benevo uk supplier in the current case…royal canin canada etc etc …details on the website links I provided I suggest looking to those links to get more details on the contents of different vegan petfoods. http://vegan-information.com/Vegan_Dogs_and_Cats.html my Benevo vegan dogfood details are on their website here…★ Wheat-free Recipe
★ No GM Ingredients
★ Certified Organic
★ Contains Prebiotic FOS
★ Foil Fresh Packaging

Composition: Organic soya bean, organic white rice, organic barley, organic oats, organic sunflower oil, brewers yeast, beet pulp, vitamins and minerals, fructooligosaccharides (prebiotic FOS; min. 0.1%), yucca schidigera extract (min. 0.05%)
Analytical Constituents: Protein 20%, Fat Content 12%, Crude Fibre 4.0%, Ash 3.5%, Moisture 8%.
Additives per Kg: Nutritional Additives: Vitamins; Vitamin A (as retinyl acetate) 17,224 IU, Vitamin D2 (as ergocalciferol) 2,392 IU, Vitamin E 120 IU. Trace Elements: Iron (as Ferrous Sulphate Monohydrate) 159 mg, Zinc (as Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate) 133 mg, Manganese (as Manganous Sulphate Monohydrate) 105 mg, Copper (as Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate) 45 mg, Selenium (as Sodium Selenite) 0.6 mg, Iodine (as Calcium Iodate Anhydrous) 1.5 mg, Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 6.54%, Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 0.46%. http://www.benevo.com/vegan-dog-food/#benevo-dog-organic

[Marie P]

This was set up for a 11 month old Boston Terrier at 16 pounds )
YOU will need to ADJUST the feeding amount for your Dog’s Weight

VERY Easy
WE have had Good luck with this Recipe:
This recipe uses egg as a binder; bake it like a meat loaf, with bread crumbs. As presented here, with these ingredients, it is about 30 percent protein, 25 percent fat, and 38 percent carbohydrates.
If you need Wheat FREE bread crumbs – here is a link: to Gillian’s Foods
http://www.gilliansfoodsglutenfree.com/products/index.php?cPath=29&osCsid=15aad74dac45e25945dd8f62963644c1

FEED Daily: for the Boston Terrier:

2 ( 1 inch size slices of the meat loaf ) 2 x per day ( for you size dog ) ( 15-18 pound dog )

( at night you may want to do 1 1/2 slices ) – JUST see if he is hungry

SNACK-
( FEED 1/4 cup of a quality Dry ( LOW grain or NO grain Kibble per day ) – as a snack

WE like the Fromm’s Brand of Dog food – also Blue Buffalo is good:

Recipe:

CHOOSE 1 meat:

2 lbs fairly lean *****( YOU will do Ground Chicken or Ground Turkey ) ( skip the beef )/ for this month-

3 cups of bread crumbs – plain – See Wheat free link above if you need it –

1/8 of a cup 2 % low-fat milk

3 large eggs

2 teaspoons of CRUSHED eggShell — – Smash it ( it’s for Calcium)

1/2 cup cooked vegetables ( green beans/peas/ others) ( grated and mush) *** ( TRY GREEN BEANS but cut them up orSmash them )

( do not put the NuVET into the Recipe ) –

(YOU can not balance this Recipe without a Quality Supplement)

*** 1 NuVET wafer vitamin ** each day – see below: ( PER DAY PER DOG ) ( NuVET is a must to balance out home cooking )

1 teaspoon vegetable oil

1/8 teaspoon LOW SALT tamari soy sauce

order your NuVET here- I do get a small % and give BACK to Pet Rescue

go here: http://www.nuvet.com/81098 ( you are looking for the NuVET Plus Wafer ) – if you go on auto ship you save 15% on every bottle
use my Name if they ask you – Pet Nurse Marie

BAKE
* press the mixture into a casserole dish so it’s 1 to 2 inches thick and bake at 350°F for 30 to 35minutes, or until set and lightly browned.

[Eric Y]

Hello all
I’m having trouble settling on a dog food. I have researched for hours on end. I tried to choose one from the calcium to kcal list the Hound Dog Mom posted but the most recent list I can find is from 2013 ( is there an update don’t list)?
The perfect dog for for my 1 year old Dogue de Bordeaux ( had his birthday yesterday) would meet the following criteria:
– limited ingredient since he has a sensitive stomach ( or a GI specific food, I could obtain a prescription if needed. The GI foods I can find don’t meet the other requirements, especially the calcium requirement)
– 4 or 5 star food
– acceptable for giant breed puppy or all life stages
– correct calcium to kcal ratio ( I believe it’s 3.5 calcium to 1000 kcal)
– preferably at or under the $2 per lb. mark

Can anyone help me with specific suggestions or point me towards the updated list?
Thank you all

[Susan]

Hi Soph,
Dr Karen Becker is always with “Rodney Habib” on his f/b page & post healthy foods like berries, broccoli, almonds, tin sardines etc https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib ….
I borrowed Dr Karen Beckers book from my local library, they bought it & I borrowed, your local library may already have her book, Amazon sells it….
also there’s a few groups on f/b about food nutrition & will help balance the diet, as long as the diet is balanced over the week you’ll be right & yes egg shells are a good source of calcium, 1 grounded egg shells is about 1 teaspoon, its about 1 teaspoon per day for a dog…..
Are you on face book? put these groups in the search bar & join, “K9 Nutrition”-Lew Olson group & “K9 Kitchen”-Monica Segal group….. you’ll get heaps of help starting your home cooked diet…. they also have books out, Lew Olson’s book was easy to follow cause she has raw & cooked meals & meals for dogs with health problems…

[aimee]

Not having heard of Only Natural Pet Wholesome Homemade I took a quick look at the product and have to say like other niche natural foods I’m flabbergasted by what I found. It appears to me that the product consists of kibble into which some dehydrated veggies are mixed. The instructions are to add water to rehydrate the veggies.

This is what took me aback. The company reports that the diets have been formulated to meet AAFCO. AAFCO set a limit on calcium as max of 2.5%. The company reports the calcium levels as 2.7% in the chicken, 2.9% in the fish and a whopping 4.8% in the redmeat. How I ask can a company not see that all of those values exceed the AAFCO allowed max?? Either the company doesn’t understand that 4.8 is greater than 2.5 or they failed to notice that the nutrient content exceed AAFCO either way it is a company I’d pass on.

Lisa in regards to Good Friends Naturals by Rural King contact the company and ask who formulated the food and what that persons credentials are, where is it being made and is there a veterinary nutritionist or PhD nutritionist on staff. Have them describe their quality control procedures. ( is every ingredient independently tested before being incorporated in to the food? What type of post production tests are being done) Will they provide you or you vet with a full nutrient analysis. This is a good article on choosing a pet food /choosing-dog-food/brand-guidelines/

[Lori H]

I am beyond confused on what to do regarding my dog! I am looking for some kind of direction without completely going down the Internet rabbit hole and doing something I might regret! There is so much information out there and I am so overwhelmed!

My dog Buddy just turned nine. He is a Chihuahua/Dachshund/Pomeranian mix and slightly overweight. (19 lbs) should be around (16 lbs).

Here is a year in the life:

– March 2016 – discovered to have bladder stones; tried to eliminate them with a change in food (Royal Canin Prescription). There was a lot of confusion, second opinions and it was then discovered that they were calcium oxilate with two logged in his urethra. He had surgery to remove the stones and they have not yet returned. We did change his food to Hills Science Diet U/D.

– March 2017 – having what I could only call “panic attacks”. Went to the vet to discover after blood work that he has diabetes. We put him on insulin and slowly have been increasing it from 3 units to 5 units. He was going back every few weeks to have his levels checked. It was not getting better so a test for Cushing’s was ordered and came back negative (thank goodness). We continued with the dosing and he has been on 5 units consistently for the last month.

Thursday 5.4.17 – took him back to the vet for a check up and because he was again experiencing a “panic attack”. I was worried he was having an insulin reaction. They ran blood work and found that he was not having any type of reaction to either too much or too little insulin, but is now insulin resistant (Type II).

Next steps – they are concerned about his liver and want to do a liver biopsy to see if there is something severe going on. I have spent almost $7K on him in a year alone and don’t want to do something that might not be necessary, eliminate the stress on him and also the additional cost. I will do anything for him, but I am now thinking that a more holistic approach might be the answer.

With this, I am trying to determine what will be best for him because of the issue with bladder stones, diabetes and possible liver issues. I feel like he is broken. 🙁 I am willing to do research, but a point in the right direction is what I need to at least start somewhere.

I have gotten him Milk Thistle, I am planning to get Bragg Apple Cider vinegar, I am also thinking that SAM-e, Vitamin K and a probiotic are necessary. I just don’t know what to do to feed him. I would like to try a possible raw food that is commercially made first and then go from there…

Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated. He has been through so much and I just want him to feel better, get healthy and be around for a few more years.

Thank you again!

[HoundMusic]

That’s a very interesting and informative site. A bit ashamed to say that for all I am interested more in a company’s quality control than an ingredient list, that there could be heavy metal contamination in pet food never even occurred to me :/

Even more interesting is that several of the “high-end”, boutique type dog foods that I swore were the cause of major problems for my pack are also the lowest rated due to contaminants. Canidae, Wellness CORE, and the God-forsaken Timberwolf, which is possibly the worst commercial dog food in the known universe. It also, I think, puts the final nail in the proverbial coffin of a mystery that’s been bothering me for years. That is, why did my dogs get sick on one formula of a given brand, while thriving on another? (Science Diet, I am looking directly at you) And what could have been the reason why foods like Timberwolf would cause an immediate, drastic and euthanasia worthy behavioral issue, while blood test results were completely normal?

Heavy metal toxicity seems to fit that bill.

One thing I am curious about, though, is how they calculated nutritional value. I see that Kibbles & Bits, which is lower protein than Dog Chow, got rated higher for its nutrient content than the latter, whereas Orijen, which has dangerously high levels of minerals – I think the calcium:phosphorous alone is 3x the daily requirement – has a nutritional value comparable to that of Dog Chow. Odd.

Anyway, I sincerely thank you for posting this. The pack gets mostly home-cooked these days, but some recent health issues are forcing me to start supplementing with kibble, so it’s a very good resource to have when looking into feeds. On another note, I’m seriously considering getting a cat, so took a gander at the kitty list. Couldn’t believe Deli-Cat is still around! That brings back some fond memories of my grandmother’s cat, who lived to be about 22 yrs old on nothing but that food, and even then most likely died of extreme neglect rather than old age 🙁

[LEELINA M]

My puppy “Minnie” also began regurgitating her ground beef meal. Someone suggested lightly cooking the beef. It worked. Maybe she was tired of the taste. I also switched the type of bowl when feeding the beef I put it on a plate or shallow bowl. Sounds weird but it worked. I also added a table spoon of canned pumpkin after heating it to cool it back down and mask the scent for her. She eats a fully balanced RAW diet with different protein every day so i figure lightly cooking only the beef isn’t hurting. You should be feeding her an array of other protein so maybe she’s sick of the taste. I personally say to try switching to chicken, lamb or pork. Once a week start adding a new protein.

On YOUTUBE Rodney Habib “Homemade Dog Food Recipe” is what I follow as a guideline and I change up the protein plus I feed RAW MEATY BONES every other day. Since Minnie is a puppy I also add more calcium and other things to balance this for a growing puppy but it is balanced for an adult dog.

Sounds like maybe there could be a Leaky Gut Issue that is causing the initial inflammation. Go to dogsnaturallymagazine.com “ultimate guide to fixing hotspots naturally” for a list of things to feed to help repair and prevent leaky gut. Good luck. I hope everything works out ok. Keep up posted on her progress to Raw 🙂

Love, Leelina

[LEELINA M]

Dear Ashleigh,
I’m so sorry if you’ve been discouraged by negative postings. I’m also new to RAW and finding more hurdles than helpers. The problem is everyone thinks they know everything rather than just sharing what they’ve learned. I hope you are still looking into and exploring the world of raw. Here is what I’m learning and would like to share…. Obviously every dog(like every person) is different but what works for most should work for all, barring complications. I’m feeding raw with a spin. When Minnie first came home I started her on an organic GROUND WHOLE CHICKEN WITH ORGAN MEAT AND BONE. I’m lucky enough to live in an area of Southern California where that is available to me, made by NATURAL MONARCH. Knowing that she also needs other protein sources i went seeking online and now I follow Dr. Becker. She’s a traditional vet gone holistic and i like that. She has a youtube video with Rodney Habib that outlines a raw food recipe which i follow but i change up the protein. I like that this recipe doesn’t call for too many supplements. In addition i feed Raw Meaty Bones every other day. My puppy is super finicky so we’re only doing Lamb Chops, Pork Spare Ribs and Beef ribs with the occasional Chicken Wing. She refuses to eat chicken sometimes as well as chicken feet and turkey necks. She’s kind of a butthead 🙂 but we’ll keep trying. In all my research I have learned that EVERY MEAL DOES NOT NEED TO BE BALANCED! Just work on balancing over the week. Also, Human grade is best. Dog food or food intended to for pets does not have that same regulation. i don’t care what anyone else says. Let those guys eat dog grade food instead of human graded. Even sale meat is ok for animals, as you know animals have different enzymes in their mouths as well as guts to combat the bacteria and parasites that we as humans cannot without cooking it first. If in doubt just cook the protein in question and feed everything else raw. Minnie doesn’t like the taste of ground beef(youtube recipe) but i already made a giant batch so i cook it then add a tablespoon of pumpkin to kill the scent and smell and she loves it. I also add lots of parsley, kale and mint to ward off any leaky gut issues. Dogs that get sick and /or die from bacteria already have had compromised immune systems so please don’t be turned away by nay sayers. Here is a sample diet of what Minnie eats but keep in mind that she is a growing toy breed puppy and eats 3 times a day but only eats 6.5% of her body weight per day (18 weeks as of today between 6 & 7 ounces per day)
sidenote, I’ve started mixing in the rodney habib video recipe into her already ground chicken mix plus as said before pumpkin to the beef mix after lightly cooking it. The beef, i only heat the beef.

Monday… Lightly cooked Beef mix with pumpkin then a pork spare rib the Natural Monarch Raw Chicken with mix

tuesday… Ground Turkey with rodney habib mix then ground chicken mix

wed… ground beef mix then ground turkey mix then a beef rib

thurs… chicken mix then a lamb chop then chicken mix again

fri… beef mix then turkey mix

sat… beef steak with bone then chicken mix then turkey mix

sun… chicken mix then lamb chop then beef mix

Upon writing it out, i see that i obviously feed lots of ground meat but that’s because Minnie is a spoiled puppy. I feed her enough Raw Meaty Bone to have the benefit of the nice breath and clean teeth and gums plus the calcium from those and her chicken has ground bone as well and the egg shells provide sufficient calcium. I plan to introduce more WHOLE proteins after 6 months. It is safe to fast dogs for a day after that point. But right now she’s just too small and too dang picky.

Pulsing spinach, kale, parsley and other super green veggies into your mixes is also sufficient however, i also juice so i mix in the pulp into Minnie’s food.

I hope any of this was helpful.
Love, Leelina

[Kevin Davies]

There are various types of dog and puppy foods out here. You can choose to feed your dog dry dog food, canned dog food or natural food. It all depends on your discretion as a puppy owner and also your dog’s needs.

Like humans, dogs are all different. So what works for one puppy might not work for another and what tastes good to one puppy may not taste good to another. Luckily, there are enough choices on the market for you to chop and change your dog food, until you find the right one.

It is also vitally important that you do research on the breed of your puppy and give him dog food accordingly. Each breed has its own unique genetic makeup and some breeds are pre-disposed to certain diseases and medical conditions.

So if you know that your Lab has more body fat than muscle and is prone to obesity, you will invest in puppy food that is low in fats and carbs but high in calcium and fiber. This ensures that your puppy’s diet is complete, balanced and nutritious enough to keep him happy and healthy.

Read more at https://petloverguy.com/best-puppy-food-for-labs/

[Crystal T]

Hello! I’m new here. Our dog is 11 months old and his name is Winston. Winston prefers dry dog food. He is also overweight.
I need help finding or devising a recipe for dog food. I found the perfect premade food for him but unfortunately it is crazy expensive. Here are the ingredients. Can you help me figure out a recipe from it or suggest one? It must be 1. organic 2. end up a dry food or mostly dry and 3. help with him being overweight.

Ingredients (in order of quantity):
-USDA grade, Ethoxyquin-free, Deboned Turkey & Chicken
-high quality (low Ash) Turkey & Chicken Meals
-Chicken Liver
-Potatoes
-Dried Ground Potatoes
-Pea Fiber
-Whitefish Meal
-Tomato Pomace
-Natural Chicken Flavor
-Chicken Liver
-Salmon Oil
-Flaxseed
-Carrots
-Sweet Potatoes
-Kale
-Broccoli
-Spinach
-Parsley
-Apples
-Blueberries
-Vitamins
-Minerals
-Choline Chloride
-Chicory Root Extract
-Yucca Schidigera Extract
-Glucosamine Hydrochloride
-Chondroitin Sulfate
-Lactobacillus plantarum
-Enterococcus faecium
-Lactobacillus casei
-Lactobacillus acidophilus
-Mixed Tocopherols
-Rosemary Extract

Calories Analysis (on an as fed basis)
350 cal/cup ME
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 33%
Crude Fat (min) 9%
Crude Fat (max) 10%
Crude Fiber (max) 8.5%
Moisture (max) 10%
Calcium (max) 1.9%
Phosphorus (max) 1.3%
Vitamin E (min) 500 IU/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* (min) 2.2%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* (min) 0.50%
Glucosamin Hydrochloride* (min) 250 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate* (min) 200 mg/kg
Beta-carotene (min) 5 mg/kg
Total Micro-organisms* (min) 80,000,000 CFU/lb

[anonymous]

From a previous post:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.
“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[HoundMusic]

new here and in a bit of a panic. i’ve been feeding raw to all my pets for over a decade with no issues. sadly, my 8-year old siberian husky has had issues eating things he’s not supposed to. he had a blockage where they needed to remove 30 inches of his intestine.

In this situation, I would have to agree with your Vet. Raw might cause more trouble than it’s worth in this instance. Particularly the bones, but also, keep in mind there can be a greater risk of infection with a dog who has just undergone major surgery and could very well have a compromised immune system for a while.

BTW, I was also a very long time raw feeder, but around April/May of last year, an older dog ate a raw pork neck that caused an obstruction. He would have been long dead if castor oil and force feeding him broth had not worked, as I cannot afford such a major surgery. Then, towards the end of the summer, that same dog was diagnosed with osteomalacia, which is basically the adult form of rickets. And I am more careful than most about balancing the calcium:phos ratio and including foods rich in Vit D. I ditched raw for home cooked, and let me tell you. My dogs were pooping out old, stagnated bone fragments for a week after being on a diet higher in fiber and of a very soft, digestible consistency. So there is a risk of blockage, and there is a risk of improper nourishment as well.

There is also some evidence that kibble does actually digest faster than raw:

https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2015/01/08/digest-this-kibble-may-actually-digest-faster-than-raw/

And besides that, bones are going to give this dog an unduly hard time after having had such a surgery. If I can make a suggestion, crock pot food can be very mushy and is incredibly beneficial for sick or recovering dogs. So, if you don’t want to go the prescription diet route, that might be a better alternative.

Otherwise, Science Diet is not exactly my favorite brand, but I have one with chronic prostatitis (also caused, or at least aggravated, by raw) who can eat nothing but SD Sensitive Skin & Stomach or the lower protein/fat Advanced Fitness formula. I mean it. He even has a hard time with boiled chicken & rice. So don’t entirely rule out SD, because it can work wonders on sick dogs.

Just my 2 cents.

[m r]

Our 5 pound, 10 year old Papillon had 3 bladder stones removed last month. The analysis showed that they were Calcium Phosphate Carbonate. I was only able to find limited research matching the specificity of her condition, and have lots of questions. I would love guidance from someone who has experience with this specific type of stone? What have you done that’s worked? Our Vet told us there’s a 50/50 chance of recurrence, and even after surgery, there is still blood in her urine.

She goes on a wee wee pad – so can urinate freely, which she does, . . . frequently! The blood in her urine appears pinkish/red. She was on Carprofen immediately following surgery – but bloody urine persisted, so Vet switched her to a different anti-inflammatory – Meloxidyl. This seemed to work because we weren’t noticing blood in her urine 10 days after we started Meloxidyl, so we were told to stop. But shortly after stopping Meloxidyl, we noticed the blood in her urine resumed. The Vet took some additional X-Rays and did a Sonogram, and told us that she still has some clotting and debris from either the surgery or from ongoing cystitis (bladder inflammation); and that while she still may be creating some sediment, thankfully stones have not developed over the last 3+/- weeks since surgery. How long does it take for the sediment to form? Is it possible for sediment to form merely weeks after surgery?

Our Vet prescribed Hill’s C/D (stating she needs a diet lower in protein, phosphorus, and calcium). She was on a diet of Natural Balance – variety of flavors since we got her (only weeks old). We’ve been feeding her the Hill’s C/D food for one week now (she wouldn’t eat the canned, so we feed dry soaked in water . . . soupy consistency). Vet did a unrinalysis yesterday, which showed pH of 8.5. How long should it take for the food to alter her pH? He suggested we use a dipstick (which he said we can purchase online and touch it to the urine on the wee wee pad) to test her urine daily. But, if we determine that her pH is not where is should be, what else are we supposed to feed her to help manage the pH to around 6.5/7 (where the Vet would like it to be)?

Urine culture results are not yet back, but last time they didn’t show anything out of the ordinary.

In addition to suggesting Hill’s C/D prescription diet, and monitoring the urine pH at home daily, the Vet also recommends diagnostic testing at his office including urinalysis ( every 3 months), urine culture( every 3 months), radiographs/x-rays (every 6 months). We still aren’t clear what to do if pH doesn’t go down? i.e. how do we get it to decrease? I read somewhere that we’re supposed to be feeding a diet rich in animal-based protein to help increase acidic pH vs. alkaline, but based on the type of stones she had (CALCIUM PHOSPHATE CARBONATE UROLITHS), we’re supposed to feed her a diet low in animal protein. So what to do?

Also, how do we get her to drink more water? We already soak the dry kibble in hot water an hour +/- before serving. We also refresh her water throughout the day and night. I don’t want to add sodium to her diet, because I read somewhere that dogs with her type of stones are also supposed to stay away from salt.

Thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide!

[Kay W]

I have never written on any of these, but ALWAYS have read and researched dog foods and topics etc. I am so grateful for this site and finding ALL the information. My girl will be 3 on Feb 14th. She has been sick since Christmas day. I found it odd that she had calcium oxylate crystals and a UTI after a vet visit. True I read that with Orijen, they need to drink more BUT….she acted so different too and less energetic and alert. After I read a guy’s article about his dog getting crystals on the Orijen, I called the distributor and asked about the Acana……after all “Orijen is the best as I thought”. I had fed my 75 lb baby Orijen the last 2 years. First year, I fed her the supposed “best” new Blue Wilderness until she got lethargic and hair started shedding……then learned/read how they sold the co. at that time and went with cheaper products. So then went with Orijen Regional Red the past 2 years. Crystals went away and normal PH thank God. I didn’t realize at the time that it might be connected to the food. Had just bought a NEW huge bag of Regional Red….along with the Acana for lower protein. This past week, she got 3 bumps on her rear that then turned to larger bumpy rashes. She started chewing on her tail obsessively and scratching, ate to the bloody skin on all three places, and scratched ALL over. I didn’t know if it was a yeast infection from the antibiotics which it was NOT. I then started giving her the Acana food, bought at the same time, just about 2 weeks ago. OMG…..very lethargic, less alert than before, red eyes and insane itching….even after the new organic “itchless” shampoo. Was scratching her face and sides of her mouth yesterday and today this evening after her “supper” of Acana, which she has NEVER done. She woke up throwing up at 4:00 am yesterday. I found this info and site tonight and now I know FOR SURE that it is this food, and from that new plant. I had called the distributor to ask “where” the food came from…they said KY, not Canada anymore. I had read that on another site also. I “had” felt so assured and happy that she had Orijen and I had found a great food. I’m just praying hard on her to feel better, and throwing away BOTH huge bags tomorrow, the Acana and Orijen! Forget about “transitioning” to a new food…I’ll risk the diarrhea and clogged anal glands instead of giving her this nasty food. I have read hours and hours trying to find a good SAFE Grain Free for her. Will do chicken and rice, but NOW getting the Grain Free Candidae Duck. They have NOT had a recall since 2012, and it was the company that made the decision just for precautions. I pray this food will work and hope the potatoes don’t cause an issue relative to starch/sugar/yeast etc. My heart goes out to anyone and everyone that has had any heartache with their pets/loving part of the family, that has suffered in any way. It TRULY is horrible that more people and companies don’t care more about our pets. These are like our “children” to most of us! For me I know! Thank you truly for sharing your stories and experiences to educate and spare other people and their 4 legged babies etc. I’m praying hard on my baby girl to get back to her old self SOON! Take care, God bless!

[Cassie P]

I’m not a vet so this is just my advice. Maybe try giving the tums at the onset of symptoms instead of every day. As was stated by another user when an antacid is given too often the body cant producing the adequate amount of acid needed for proper digestion plus tums contains calcium so over-doing it isn’t good. If it was me and all you’re wanting to try is tums, id wait till you see the tale tale sign of panic and swallowing air start then give her the tums when you know she needs it. I believe it’s a type of indigestion similar to what humans get when air builds up in our belly and hurts so bad. If your comfortable trying 1/4th chewable gas x since she does start tooting and feels better (just like my dog) I do think it’d help. I wish Katie all the best and please let us know what you try and if it helps 🙂 PS is her food & water bowls elevated a bit off the floor so the food doesn’t have to travel as far upwards to be swallowed? I’ve read that helps also.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Cassie P.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Cassie P.

[anonymous]

From a previous post:

Increased water, add it to the food is a must, my dog laps it up to get to the food (4 small meals per day). Frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing.
Ask the vet if she has struvite or calcium oxalate stones? Or both? An ultrasound is a good idea.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html
“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.
“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.
“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.
“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[Jeannine M]

I was looking to change from Fromm LBP gold as my dog has light rashy ears and the vet said possible allergy and sometimes his stools have mucous. Had his stools checked several times and no worms, parasites or anything else. Can’t say I care for the ingredients in a lot of the dog foods put I did like the Nulo. A little high on the protein side but thought I’d give it a try. I wrote them and asked about LBP and the requirements-calcium, phos. and ratios and was wondering what others think, is this too much for my puppy? He just turned five months old this week and he is half mastiff half Rottweiler. This was her reply-
Hi Jeannine,

Thanks for reaching out, and for your interest in our products for your Mastiff/Rottweiler puppy!

We don’t offer a formula that’s exclusively for Large Breed puppies, however our FreeStyle and MedalSeries recipes for puppies are formulated to contain nutrient levels that are intended for puppies of ALL breed sizes. This means that the calcium and phosphorus levels within the range for the development of large breed bones and joints. For your review, I’ve listed the calories, calcium and phosphorus levels for our recipes for puppies:

FreeStyle Salmon & Peas Recipe for Puppies:
Calories: 3,627 kcals/kg; 428 kcal/cup
Calcium: 1.48%
Phosphorus: 1.04%
Ca:P Ratio: 1.4:1

FreeStyle Turkey & Sweet Potato Recipe for Puppies:
Calories: 3.742 kcals/kg; 441 kcals/cup
Calcium: 1.49%
Phosphorus: 1.06%
Ca:P Ratio: 1.4:1

MedalSeries Chicken & Sweet Potato Recipe for Puppies:
Calories: 3,652 kcals/kg; 431 kcals/cup
Calcium: 1.43%
Phosphorus: 0.93%
Ca:P Ratio: 1.54:1

Both our FreeStyle and MedalSeries lines are designed to meet the same nutritional standard for healthy pets, are grain-free, and contain our patented probiotics. The key difference between the FreeStyle and MedalSeries puppy formulas is the variety of recipes within each line, and where you can purchase them. All FreeStyle dry food recipes are exclusively sold through independent retailers and are formulated without chicken, which may be a benefit for your puppy’s allergy symptoms. These include our FreeStyle Salmon & Peas and our FreeStyle Turkey & Sweet Potato Recipes for puppies. Our MedalSeries recipes are exclusively sold through PetSmart, and do feature chicken as a primary protein source; this includes our MedalSeries Chicken & Sweet Potato recipe for puppies.

If you have any additional questions as you consider our products, please reach out to me and I’d be glad to help. Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Heather Acuff, M.S.
Nulo Customer Care Manager
512.476.6856 Ext. 111
Description: Macintosh HD:Users:heather.acuff:Desktop:Customer Care:Nulo Logos:nulo_logo_healthier_rbg.jpg

On 1/5/17, 2:19 PM, “Jeannine Moore” <jeanninemoore123@icloud.com> wrote:

I am trying to find a food for my mastiff/Rottweiler puppy. He is on Fromms LBP gold right now but inside his ears are light pink and the vet said he might have some allergy issues. I’m super paranoid about food as my 8 year old love of my love mastiff/Rottweiler recently passed from osteosarcoma. I got him back in 2008 when they just started recommending not to feed large breed dogs puppy food and to feed them low protein adult food. At 2 he had tplo surgery and like I said he later developed osteosarcoma when he was 7 1/2 years old and was dead 7 months later. I need a dog food that has the right calcium/phos. ratio along with the calcium ratio to calorie. I don’t know how to factor in the ash and everything else as it’s all too overwhelming! I read you have a vet nutritional specialist develop your food and on staff so I am asking you. Please give me your recommendations on all your dry food that is within the requirements that I have listed so I can start tracking down the food.
Thanks so much,
Jeannine Moore
McMinnville, Oregon

Sent from my iPad

[anonymous]

Below is an excerpt from: http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/calcium-oxalate-bladder-stones-in-dogs/5895

How can I prevent my dog from developing calcium oxalate bladder stones in the future?

Dogs that have developed calcium oxalate bladder stones in the past will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets that promote less-acidic and more dilute urine are recommended. Most dogs should be fed a canned or wet diet to encourage water consumption. Dilute urine with a low urine specific gravity (Urine Specific Gravity or USpG less than 1.020) is an important part of the prevention of calcium oxalate bladder stones. In certain cases, medications to lower the urinary pH such as potassium citrate may be required. If the dog is fed a home prepared diet, Vitamin B6 is often added as a supplement.  Dogs that repeatedly develop calcium oxalate bladder stones without high blood calcium levels may benefit from hydrochlorothiazide treatment.
Dogs diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones should avoid calcium supplements unless specifically advised by your veterinarian. They should not be fed high oxalate foods such as chocolate, nuts, rhubarb, beets, green beans, and spinach.
In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will typically be performed one month after treatment and then every three to six months for the remainder of the dog’s life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs such as frequent urination, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Unfortunately, calcium oxalate stones have a somewhat high rate of recurrence, despite careful attention to diet and lifestyle.
This client information sheet is based on material written by: Ernest Ward, DVM

[anonymous]

“I had cleaned them with my great little $12 Amazon dental kit!”
Umm, that item is no comparison to a professional cleaning. Brushing the dog’s teeth once a day may help though, see YouTube for how to videos.

Tums? I would go to another vet and get a second opinion. Also, be very careful about taking advice from well meaning posters on the internet. A lot of false information out there. And, I would never give a pet over the counter meds or supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the pet. You can make things worse.

Excerpt from:
https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/tums-safe-dogs-bf44a10fade507c#
“The active ingredient in TUMS and many other antacids is a chemical called calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is not only a medication, it also occurs widely in nature as one of the main substances that make up limestone.
Calcium carbonate treats an upset stomach because of the effects it has on stomach acid. Calcium carbonate is a basic substance. This means it has a high pH, which is the opposite of stomach acid, a substance with a very low pH. When a person or animal is given calcium carbonate it goes to work by neutralizing stomach acid. This happens due to a chemical reaction that takes place between calcium carbonate and hydrochloric acid, the main constituent of stomach acid. When this reaction happens, calcium carbonate and hydrochloric acid switch their chemical partners, forming calcium chloride and water. Calcium chloride is insoluble and passes through the digestive tract, while the water formed by the reaction results in a healthier pH level.
Unfortunately, dogs digest foods much more quickly than humans do, so the chemical reaction between calcium carbonate and stomach acid does not occur fast enough to treat the animal’s upset stomach. By the time calcium carbonate treats the symptom, the dog has typically already digested and passed whatever food was causing the problem in the first place, making this a harmless but relatively ineffective treatment for the animal’s ailment”.

PS: I would call your vet and leave a message for her to call you back, I would question the Tums and ask why she didn’t suggest Pepcid? Not that it is a miracle drug, but, it might be slightly more effective in reducing symptoms (based on my experience and what I have observed). Anyway, I would communicate with your vet and ask questions.

[Nick B]

Hello,

Margo’s dad here again with another food question. We asked our vet what kind of food he recommended for Margo (11 month old Golden Retriever) and he said that he only recommends Hill Science Diet. Margo likes the food and we have had no issues and the large breed puppy formula seems to be in line with the calculator at 3.3/1000 for calcium and 1.2:1 for phosphorus and 30.1% protein. When we met with a dog trainer they told us that we should not be feeding Science Diet and the only reason the vet recommended is because they get a significant kick back…

I am at a bit of a loss. We are on a budget with her food and Science diet works within that budget, but I do not want to be feeding her something that is not good in the long-run for her. Is Science diet bad? Is there something else similar in price and readily available in most big pet stores for an almost 1 year old golden pup that weighs about 50 lbs.? I have looked up Pro Plan large breed puppy and is has slightly less protein at 28% and there is Blue buffalo wilderness large breed puppy and it is 35% protein but a little more expensive and Nutro Max large breed puppy and it is lower in protein at 26% and 4/1000 in calcium. Both seem in line with calcium and phosphorus. Help!?

Thanks! Nick

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Nick B.

[Gerard F]

I am getting an 8 week old Bernese Mountain Dog puppy. The breeder uses Propac Performance puppy food. It is supposed to be rated 5 stars/
First ingredient = chicken meal second ingredient yellow corn (not good)
Protein content over 30%
Fat content over 20%
Ratio fat/protein = 66%
Nowhere does it say how much calcium.
In fact in the reviews of the individual puppy formulas on this site, no calcium content is given. The vets say about 1.5% or 3g/1,000 kcal with a ca/Phos ratio of 1-1.3

Do not want to change abruptly but this does not seem like the ideal food

[Susan]

Hi Newmom, follow Rodney Habib on his Face Book page he’s a Pet Nutrition Blogger, or on “Planet Paws” F/B site, https://www.facebook.com/PlanetPaws.ca/?pnref=lhc
I’ve learnt so much about healthy feeding & Rodney has a his videos, how to make frozen Coconut oil with Berries treats & freeze also videos about kibbles being unbalanced & are very high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3, causing health problems in dogs, like skin problems, joint problems etc he has a video at the moment about chicken, “Is chicken bad for your dog” cause chicken is so cheap a lot of kibbles are chicken, the problem is chicken is high in omega 6, Pro anti-inflammatory & very low in omega 3 which is anti-inflammatory & dogs start scratching & people think my dog is sensitive to chicken, like me, every time Patch ate raw or cooked chicken, he got a red swollen back paw & started to itch & scratch his body, but when he ate a premium kibble with chicken in it, he was OK???, now I’ve realized the kibble was probably balanced with omega 3 it was 1/2 of the omega 6 what it should be & Patch didn’t get his red swollen paw & itchy skin….but when he ate raw & cooked chicken it was tooo much omega 6 causing his red hot paw & itchy skin, so now when I buy a kibble I rotate between different brands & different proteins,
I read the Omega 6% & 3 % & make sure the omega 3% is either 1/2 of the omega 6% or nilly 1/2 of the omega 6%. Rodney said if it doesn’t say on the bag of kibble or on the kibbles site then send the kibble companies an email & ask them for their omega 3% & omega 6% & tell these kibble companies what it should be & I will not be buying your crappy unbalanced kibble till you improve it… we need to stand up to these big kibble companies & show them we are not stupid & are educated about our pets diet..
I give raw almonds about 3 almonds a day for a dog a day, I eat 1/2 an Almond & give Patch the other 1/2 of Almonds I give as a treat & his coat has become real shinny, google foods that are high in omega 3, I also give some peeled apple pieces as a treat, dogs that have skin problems also need Vitamin C in their diet…. you can buy Dog Vitamin C in Australia we have Natural Animal Solutions http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/education.php
There’s a lot of good info on Jacqueline Rudans site she’s a animal Naturopath..

Go to Aldis & look for Tin Sardines in Spring Water or Olive Oil you can give 3 small sardines a day added to one of his meal, Sardines have Vitamin, A, C, D, B-12, B-6 Calcium, Iron & Magnesium, sardines are very healthy to add to your dogs food, Aldis sell tin of Sardines for 59c in Australia…I’d add Sardines to a meal instead of buying any fish oil supplements…unless they’re made in New Zealand
They did a study on Fish Oils in America & 70% were rancid they were off before the bottle was even opened, they tested a fresh just opened bottle of fish oil capsules & they were rancid off..then they tested New Zealand Fish oil supplements & the New Zealand made fish oils were fresher & hadn’t gone rancid yet….
I like giving fresh whole foods instead of supplements, also for skin problems make sure your bathing weekly baths in a good medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo on my boy, the Malaseb shampoo kills any bacteria on their skin & soften their skin/fur when you bath you wash off any pollens & allergens on the dogs coat, Patch feels so soft after his bath, when Patch is real itchy cause of environment allergies I have to bath him twice a week to relieve his itchy skin & red paws…

[pitlove]

Hi Jeannine-

You will need to email the company to find out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus levels of the food the breeder has your puppy on and then input those values into the tool found here: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

If the food falls between a ratio of 1.1:1-1.5:1 for Ca/Phos and a 3g/1000kcal Ca/calorie ratio then the food is safe.

A lot of breeders, vet’s, rescues, dog clubs etc are still unaware that calcium and phosphorus, plus weight gain are what put large and giant breed puppies at higher risk for DOD’s and not protein. So they focus on low protein puppy foods, not realizing protein is not the issue.

[HoundMusic]

@ Susan W

Thanks so much for the Verus recommendation – it looks to be exactly along the lines of what I have been trying to find, at least ingredients wise! Will definitely have to look further into that one.

@ Pitluv

I always thought large breed foods might be the way to go for this problem, but I’m seeing evidence that what these dogs do best on is low to moderate phosphorous levels with higher amounts of calcium – the LB foods I’m seeing have decreased calcium to slow down growth, so IDK anymore if that would help 🙁 That’s why I’ve been so frustrated, here.

@ Inked Marie

You must be tempted to strangle me about now for always taking my sweet time about checking the forums *grin*

The pup in question is the blueticked hellion (a.k.a. Brady) in my avatar, with his breeder @ about 10-11 weeks 🙂 He’s 4 months now, and already making a fine start harassing the rabbits. If you can believe it, I only have one other pic of him giving me a dirty look after being taken home from the airport. Probably need some incentive to take more 😉

[crazy4cats]

Yes, it’s on the list. Please listen to your vet over the pet supply store clerk. It is important for your pup to stay lean and not grow too fast. But, it is also important that it gets all the vitamins and nutrients included in puppy food that a growing pup needs. And, most importantly, the calcium percentage needs to be appropriate for a growing LBP. Also, large breed food, both puppy and adult, are typically lower in calories and fat due to control growth and keep trim as adults.

I’m sure the store employee meant well as that used to be the belief. There is a nice article about choosing food for a large breed puppy. A bulldog/mastiff sounds awesome. Our neighbor has American Bulldogs, father and son. Impressive and nice dogs. I’m sure you’ll take great care of him/her.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by crazy4cats.

[pitlove]

Hi John B-

It is very easy to explain why you are hearing these recommendations. They are practices that were considered effective 30-40 years ago before companies came out with foods formulated to properly meet the needs of a growing large and giant breed.

Now that we have better choices, it is no longer the recommendation from any veterinary nutritionist to feed a large breed puppy an adult maintenance diet.

This is the advice from Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN when asked about switching a Great Dane diganosed with pano to an adult food to slow growth:
“Please do not change the food from large breed growth to any adult formula and do not ADD any more calcium. This is exactly the opposite of the current recommendations.
I am sorry to hear that such outdated information is still being given out and causing more harm than good. The published studies in this area are about 15-20 yrs old now. I can assure you with that information; she is not certified by any Veterinary authorizing body, and if not certified by a veterinary board, she cannot legally be making diet recommendations on dogs with any medical condition for a price. Anyone can make diet recommendations for free.”

This is her website:https://www.petdiets.com

You are able to post questions to her and her staff of veterinary nutritionists in the “Ask the Nutritionist” section.

[Spy Car]

Hey Molly,

I’d suggest you look into the Prey Model of feeding raw foods. I think it would be a better match for your desire to feed whole food ingredients to your dog, and is more healthful than Dr Picairn’s regimen which is heavy on vegetables and grain, and lacks soft edible bone.

Keeping the calcium:phosphorus ratios in the correct target range is important, but by feeding PMR ratios (10% soft edible bone) it is also pretty simple. Dogs get all the nutrients they need from eating diverse animal products.

Following the 80/10/10 model (“meat”/organs/soft edible bones) while diversifying the components is a very straightforward way to feed and get the highest nutritional levels to your dog.

The elaborate recipes of some raw feeding variants put a lot of needless strain on owners, and actually reduce the nutritional value of the diet.

Soft edible bones (like chicken bones) are a great natural source of calcium. Chewing bone also tends to keep dog’s teeth clean, and it promotes strong teeth, strong jaw and neck muscles, and it relaxes dogs to chew.

Best wish on your journey.

Bill

[Derek g]

I’m sorry if this has been discussed, but I can’t seem to find it anywhere on this site. I’m looking to switch my dogs from Acana Pacifica to a more budget friendly, comparable brand (I know, its going to be extremely tough to find – but the price in Hawaii is killing me on a single income!). Has anyone heard of this brand (WholeHearted)? It looks like it’s a Petco exclusive brand, and is relatively new. When looking at the ingredients on Petco’s website for the WholeHearted All Life Stages Dog Food – Grain Free Salmon & Pea, 25 lbs., I noticed Canola Oil is pretty high up there on the list of ingredients. Is that reason enough to not choose this food? I haven’t seen an actual review of the food anywhere, or an actual analysis of the ingredients.

I’ve included the link to the food (http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/wholehearted-grain-free-lid-salmon-adult-dog-food#), and the ingredients list from their website is below. I’d love to hear opinions of WholeHearted (and, of course, any other alternatives to Acana Pacifica, one might have!). Until then, I’ll keep combing the board for other suggestions, and also so I don’t ask any redundant questions. Thanks friends!

Ingredients
Salmon, Salmon Meal, Lentils, Pea Flour, Chickpeas, Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Sweet Potatoes, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil, Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Animalis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Reuteri Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Source Of Vitamin B1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source Of Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 26.0% Minimum, Crude Fat 15% Minimum, Crude Fiber 5.0% Maximum, Moisture 10.0% Maximum, Zinc 150 Mg/Kg Minimum, Selenium 0.3 Mg/Kg Minimum, Vitamin E 150 Iu/Kg Minimum, Omega-6 Fatty Acids* 2.5% Minimum, Omega-3 Fatty Acids* 0.4% Minimum, Total Microorganisms* 1,000,000 Cfu/Lb Minimum (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Animalis, Lactobacillus Reuteri In Descending Amounts), *Not Recognized As An Essential Nutrient By The Aafco Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.3,625 Kcal/Kg (339 Kcal/Cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy

[Diana L]

Hi Susan,

Thank you so much for your response. AS for the fat % in the vet food, it says “Crude Fat Min. 13.0%”.

This is my thinking… his gut is one big swamp due to the effects of parvo (I assume he must have something similar to SIBO as he shows many of the signs). Now, in this swamp he has nasty parasites (giardia) eating away at his already vulnerable gut. This being said, after much research this is what I was thinking of going, but am nervous as none of these remedies are FDA approved for dogs (i of course will check with his vet but i find that many times hearing other pet owner’s experience is much more beneficial as every dog is different).

PLAN OF ACTION:

-take him off the vet food. Cook him organic, no antibiotic/hormones, vegetarian fed (aka the best of the best) chicken + sweet potato + carrots (i heard carrots help with a dogs digestive system).

-now for the basic supplements any puppy or dog would need in his food, I would mix in: seaweed plant based calcium powder ( https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Essentials-JX0001-Seaweed-Calcium/dp/B0002AAO2M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472224097&sr=8-1&keywords=seaweed+calcium+pet ), and Multi-vitamin – this vitamin contains small bits of garlic and yucca which could help his intestinal problems ( https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Essentials-Herbal-Multi-Vitamin-Dogs/dp/B010F36XRK/ref=pd_sim_468_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7T75QBGRD5NZPA4GD5AJ )

-now for fighting off the giardia, building his immune system, and dealing with the aftermath of the parvo, I would add the following to his homemade food: goldenseal, echinacea, grapefruit seed extract, and slippery elm. (here is the article I read that suggested these items: http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/04/diarrhea-in-dogs-puppies-cats-kittens.html )

Once again, these are all things I will consult his vet with, but as i mentioned many times vets are VERY quick to prescribed whatever drug/prescription food they are “encouraged” to push just as doctors do with FDA approved drugs 🙂 I simply like to keep a balance is all.

Any input!? Thanks again for all your wonderful help!

[Logan W]

For those new or novice to homemade dog food, it does take some research and a little bit of trial and error to see what your dog will eat. I’ve been doing homemade 100% for about 7 or 8 years now and I would highly recommend it. It does require some initial time and research but it’s all well worth it. I first started with several dogs and wasn’t convinced, like many here, that anything available on the market was as nutritionally dense as homemade. I started when I first adopted several dogs and they loved eating anything I bought, but the food certainly never agreed with them and they were sick all around my house. I think the last food, both dry and soft, they ever ate from the pet store was Blue Buffalo way back when. I would give them rice and chicken till they got better then slowly start working commercial food back into their diet. Every time… they got sick. That’s when I started out on the quest for something that I could rest assured was wholesome and nutritional… from my own hands.

People are right here when they warn you of feeding your dog homemade food without understanding your dogs nutritional needs. We all know our dogs will eat just about anything and you’d hate to learn the hard way that you are malnourishing your dog. I started by searching the web for a canine version of a daily nutritional requirements list that includes not only the macro nutrients (proteins, fiber, fat, carbohydrates, etc.) but also details all the micro nutrients (different amino acids, minerals, vitamins, etc.). The lists are out there if you search. It will be a long, long list of about 30-40 nutrients.

Once I found this list, I did some calculations based on my dogs activity level and size, multiples really. Then I created an Excel spreadsheet of all the target daily nutritional requirements. From there I started searching the web for natural sources of each nutrient and cross referencing them again sites to make sure they weren’t toxic to dogs. You’d be surprised to find that much of the normal fresh meats and vegetables at the store have just what your dog needs. I created a list of ideal food ingredients and Googled each ingredient’s full nutritional profile and built a tab for each ingredient in Excel listing out its nutrients per 1 gram or other serving size. Then I would build other worksheets modeling possible combinations of natural ingredients and seeing how the resulting nutrional profile compares to the target. You’ll find, just like with any animal, that you’ll never get it perfect. You may figure out that adding sweet potatoes helps you fill one nutrient you were targeting only to provide an exceeding amount of another. This is inevitable but just make sure that you aren’t creating a recipe that has far too little of one nutrient that is very important, or even far too much of another that can cause problems if ingested in large quantities like Vitamin A, etc. Its really a process or trial and error modeling a recipe that is really close. I got a few recipes and then went for it. But I do give my dog a multivitamin once a day too just to be a little safer.

The recipes I’ve been using for some time is muscle meat and some organ meat like ground beef and beef livers or kidneys, or chicken breasts and chicken livers. Organ meat is very nutritionally dense and its what dogs go for first when they find a animal in the wild. Muscle meat is a thing we humans prioritize for some reason so remember that you dog IS NOT BEST SERVED WITH FILET MIGNONS OR CHICKEN TENDERS. For veggies, I use about 3-5 different vegetables and switch them up every once in a while. My favorites are sweet potatoes, carrots, spinach, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, squash and zucchini. For fiber and carbohydrates, I pick between a rice (white or brown) or beans (dry pinto or black beans). There’s other things I do too, like I use quite a few eggs and I boil the eggshells to sterilize them. Then I grind the dried shells into a powder for their high calcium needs. I also add some ground flax seed and olive oil to every batch. That’s really it about ingredients… now the PREPARATION METHOD becomes vitally important.

If your dog is like any of mine, they probably don’t care to eat vegetables raw or their own flavor. Also, how you cook the vegetables and beans/grains can either retain most of the nutrients or deplete most of them. Dogs have very short digestive tracts compared to humans and that means that just because they can eat a raw carrot…. it doesn’t mean there digestive tract can break it all down fast enough before it passes. Pressure cookers are great for dog food vegetables. Pressure cookers apply high heat for a very short period of time that not only softens the vegetables so they are more digestible, but it helps retain the nutrients in the vegetables much better than, let’s say, boiling them. One could simply use a steamer, but the trick I use is adding some chicken broth to the pressure cooker so that it injects a tasty flavor in all the vegetables. I chop all my vegetables and pile them into the pressure cooker and add a couple cups of real chicken broth and set it for 10 minutes, done. I pull out the finished veggies and set aside. Then I do the same flavor-injection with the beans or rice by using the pressure cooker too. I take out the beans or rice when finished and mix it into the cooked vegetables I set aside.

Next I chop up a cook the meats/organs either in a large pan or also in the pressure cooker (depends on the meat). I add a generous amount of olive oil and pour in the eggs and ground eggshells + ground flax seed. When this is all done I mix it all together with the already completed parts I set aside. A little salt and its done. I divide the food up into glass, airtight containers that hold enough for no more than 5 days of food. I keep one in the fridge and the others in the freezer. After the first container is nearing empty, I start thawing the second container. I give me 20-30 lbs guys about 1 cup of the food nuked for about a minute, morning and night.

How’s it working? Wonderful coats, plenty of energy, no skin problems EVER, all vet checkups clear and I’ve had their blood tested drawn at different times of their metabolic cycles to test for nutrients in their bloodstream (a whole lot of expensive testing just to reassure me that what I was doing was good) and not a single thing ever wrong with them. Since their food is not very hard or dry, you do need to brush their teeth or make sure they get plenty of dental chews. Their stool should be nice and loose, but not huge and frequent. Once or twice a day is normal. Their digestives tracts are using more of the food mass than was being used when feeding commercial food filled with corn and other grains. So their stool gets smaller. You can go online and find paid recipes backed by vets, but I’ve yet to see one that is truly all homemade. They typically create recipes that require using some overly priced supplement powder they distribute or co-advertise for. Don’t waste your time on them.

You may find that your dog devours the food right away or plays the hold-put game for something better. Mine play both games depending on their mood. They usually don’t eat the food right away cause it’s just been reheated and they know not to try. So they usually meander around for a while before eating it later. But when they finally eat… they eat it all… every last piece of vegetable, bean and rice, etc.

So there’s my experience and I hope it inspires you to give it a go and stick with it. I have an electric pressure cooker only for the dog food… best investment ever. It costs me about 50 cents to feed 1 lbs dog for a week. So that’s $10 a week for one 20 lbs dog. I consider that a much better ROI than commercial dog food. Since I only have one freezer, I only make food every 2 weeks and spend about 2 hours when I do. But you get used to it and you learn the process inside and out. I’d never go back. Now if only I would eat as good as these damned dogs do!! 😉

[pitlove]

Hi Lacey-

I kind of hate to complicate things given the title of your post, but your 13 week old giant breed has very specific dietary needs while he is growing that differ greatly from your 16 year old Chihuahua.

Large and giant dogs that will mature to over 50lbs are at high risk for bone growth disorders due not only to genetics, but improper nutrition during growth. Large breed puppies have difficulty absorbing calcium correctly. They require a food that has a controlled level of calcium to help them grow slowly. Most of the time a food labeled for “large breed puppies” will meet those requirements…sometimes they do not. Diamond Naturals does have a large breed puppy formula that is All Life Stages, so your Chihuahua could eat it, however some small dogs are sensitive to kibble size so you would have to get a bag and test it out.

Homecooking is not a bad idea, however the diets have to be properly balanced and when adding the challenge of owning a giant breed puppy, many will advise that a commercial diet that meets AAFCO should be fed during growth to make sure the dog is recieving proper nutrition. When your giant breed pup reaches adulthood you could begin researching homecooked meals. BalanceIt.com is a good place to start.

[pitlove]

Hi Tonya

Welcome to the forums!

Tripett is a canned variety of green beef tripe that is a great topper for kibble because it has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio.

Basically as I’m sure you have learned, excessive calcium and excess weight gain are the two major causes of bone growth disorders in growing large breeds. Some of these diseases don’t manifest until later in life, some manifest early on and then clear up. Either way it is important to feed a food appropriate for a growing large breed. The calcium to phos ratio should not exceed 1:5:1 and the calcium to calorie ratio should not exceed 3g/1000kcals.

Here is the issue….some foods make the claim “All Life Stages” which does mean it can be fed to a puppy or an adult. However, that does not always mean a LBP. Natural Balance makes the claim “All Stages, All Breeds” however that may or may not be true depending on what their nutritional philosophy regarding LBP’s is. Some companies are running on the old tired myth that protein is the main cause of bone growth disorders, dispite this theory being debunked some 20 years ago. They put so much emphasis on low protein that they ignore the calcium content.

Some companies list their “nutrient analysis” right there on their website, which I love! Some do not and you have to email the company and ask for it. Reason this is important is because there is a great tool on DFA here in that thread we orginally were talking on that lets you put in the MAX calcium, MAX phos and the calories/kg of the food and it tells you the calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio. However, you can not use the MIN numbers found on the bag. It does not tell you the true amount of calcium contained in the food. When using the MIN numbers, just about every food on the market would look LBP safe lol.

When it comes to feeding guidelines on the bag, they are simply a guideline. NB is a lower calorie food, so in order to meet the dogs daily caloric requirements, more food needs to be fed. Higher calorie foods would require less. One issue with feeding SO much less than the guidelines is the dog becoming nutrient deficient over time.

A lot of factors come in to play in keeping a dog lean. Being spayed/neutered will decrease metabolism, being less active, consuming too many calories in ratio to what is being burned. Personally, I would reward with something like green beans instead of the Zuke’s treats you are using if you are doing a lot of training with her and she is getting a lot of treats. We don’t use a lot of treats in my house because I’m very careful with my dogs weight. I have 3 kinds of treats right now, each with different kcals/treat and I use them based on how much excersize I feel they have done that day. Many days they don’t get a treat at all because I’m also incorporating raw into their kibble, so that takes up the calories of the treats. Praise is also a good training reward vs a treat.

[Maniza D]

HOMEMADE DOG FOOD FOR DIGESTIVE AND SKIN ISSUES
My 13 month old Tibetan Terrier has been sick on and off since I got him at 14 weeks old. After spending thousands of dollars, I decided to cook for him. After doing a lot of research, I discovered that the Acana Pacifica he was on was too rich for him. Acana, like most dog foods does not have a balanced protein to fat ratio (1:1). It is a very fatty kibble. Also it has quite a few sources of carbs lentils ( which are also a source of protein) etc. Lentils are hard to digest, even for humans .. see Indian cooking where Hing is added to aid digestion of these pulses. The Acana ingredients may work well for other dogs but not mine. I decided to switch to homemade meals and the recipe below cured him of stomach ailments overnight!

I was able to create this recipe using BalanceIt website. Couple of important things to note : I added in one capsule of Slippery Elm, great supplement for digestive issues, rosemary, one teaspoon of fresh garlic-ginger paste, parsley, a half teaspoon of bonemeal, and substituted out a portion of the corn oil (causes inflammation) for 1/2 tsp of high quality fish oil. I also adjusted the ingredient quantity to cook for 14 meals ( 2 per day). I cooked the base consisting of the cod, salmon, sweet potatoes and pumpkin and froze the portions. The fresh veggies in the recipe are par-boiled and pureed in the water they were boiled in, and added on a daily basis, along with the above ingredients and a VITAMIN SUPPLEMENT. Very important to add the vitamins and bonemeal (for calcium) to create a nutritionally balanced meal. I add in the bonemeal because the calcium to phosphorus ratio is off in the BalanceIt Vitamin powder.

The following homemade recipe was specially created for a 28 lb healthy adult dog who requires 659 Calories per day. The following recipe provides 692 Calories, enough for 1 day.

TOBY’S HOMEMADE PET FOOD RECIPE
Ingredients Grams Amount
(1) Sweetpotato, baked in skin, without salt (BalanceIT.com; flesh fed only) 200.0 g 1 cup
(2) Fish, cod, Pacific, baked 159.5 g 5 5/8 oz
(3) Fish, salmon, Atlantic, wild, baked 74.4 g 2 5/8 oz – *I used canned
(4) Pumpkin, canned, without salt 61.2 g 1/4 of a cup
(5) Celery, cooked, boiled, drained, pureed, without salt 56.2 g 3/8 of a cup, diced
(6) Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, pureed, without salt 45.0 g-1/4 cup
(7) Squash, summer, crookneck and straightneck, cooked, boiled, drained, pureed without salt 45.0 g 1/4 of a cup, sliced
(8) Apples, raw, with skin 40.9 g 3/8 of a cup slices
(9) Oil, corn, industrial and retail, all purpose salad or cooking 18.7 g 1 3/8 tbsp – *I use only 1.5 tsp.

You MUST also add the following supplement(s) to prevent essential nutrient deficiencies:
2 3/8 teaspoons (4.75 gram) of Balance IT® Canine – I give Toby half the dose.

Per Above Recipe: 692 Calories; 33% protein calories (228 Calories); 34% fat calories (238 Calories); 33% carbohydrate calories (226 Calories).

[Jennifer H]

Ok so I have two questions to pose for my fellow Large/Giant Breed folks:

1 – In the article “How to Choose the Best Large Breed Puppy Food and Lower Your Dog’s Risk of Hip Dysplasia” it states:

“Yet fortunately, there’s general agreement among the experts that any food intended for large breed puppies should not only meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for growth, it should also contain:
◾3500 to 4000 calories (kcal) per kilogram of food14
◾3 grams of calcium per 1000 calories of food. That value should not exceed the safe upper limit of 4.5 grams15
◾A calcium-to-phosphorus ratio between 1:1 and 1.5:116
Although most AAFCO compliant puppy foods are suitable for small and medium breeds, only a few meet these special guidelines and can be considered safe for large breed puppies. ”
I am in complete agreement on the grams of calcium and the calcium to phosphorus ratio, but can’t help but wonder about the recommendation to have what I would consider high calories per kilogram of food? Please share your thought and opinions on this as it has me scratching my head:)

Ok, for question 2 — this is a great sharing of information regarding the nutritional needs for Large/Giant breed puppies but I am wondering once your BIG PUPPY reaches adult status and is now a BIG DOG, what is the general opinion/consensus of nutrition needs for the adult or even the senior large/giant breed?

[pitlove]

Hi Rikki and welcome-

I can appreciate your desire for science based medicine. To touch on a the points you hit on, no protein is not a factor in terms of correct growth for large and giant breeds. However, Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN states on her website petdiets.com, that growing puppies do not require a food with more than 25% protein.

Absolutely, by no means, should you feed your mastiff an adult maintenance diet. This is a tired old myth still thought to be true because it “worked” 30 years ago. Companies are now producing large breed puppy diets designed specificially for slow growth.

The safe upper limit for your calcium and phos ratio is 1.5:1. However, you also need to pay attention to the calcium to calorie ratio as well to keep the pup lean during growth. Overfeeding is a huge factor in devlopmental orthopedic disorders.

As for the choice of food….the two companies that have done the most research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition are Hill’s and Purina. Selecting a large breed puppy diet from either of those companies would be fine. I do understand that some are opposed to using a food from either of those two companies. Dr. Tim’s Kinesis which you mentioned earlier, is safe for a growing giant breed, is formulated by a vet and a nutritionist and has been feed trialed. All qualities that are excellent to have in a food. Not to mention it comes in a 44lb bag on chewy.com. This would probably be my first choice for a budget friendly, good large breed puppy food, not from Hill’s or Purina.

Here is a good article to read that is posted on DFA here:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

and this is another from the persepctive of a veterinary nutritionist, that outlines DOD’s and large breed puppy nutrition fairly well:

https://msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm

[Renee K]

My sister did considerable research on what to feed her Boxer, she likes Solid Gold Leaping Waters Salmon. So she recommended that I feed my 12 week old Golden Retriever puppy Solid Gold Wolf Cub. I wrote in with some questions and they responded (see below.) I am wondering why Solid Gold is not recommended on your site, is it an oversight or on purpose? By the way I came up with the questions from your wonderful site, thank you. When I asked about AAFCO it seems like they don’t have their approval?…(see below.) Also, is there one puppy food on your editor list that would be specifically better than the others for a Golden Retriever 13 week old puppy? I am still having trouble narrowing it down. Orijen puppy large seemed perfect but too costly.

Thanks for reaching out to us, and congratulations on your new addition! Wolf Cub is 1.3% calcium and 1 % phosphorus. Hundchen Flocken is 1.8% calcium and 1.14% phosphorus. We have searched the world for the most reputable sources for our ingredients. We do not use any ingredients from China. None of our products contain artificial preservatives, corn, wheat, or soy, artificial colors or flavors, or meat by-product meal.

AAFCO does not actually approve foods. It’s a body made up mostly of State Department of Agriculture officials that recommend guidelines for animal food labeling as well as nutritional requirements based upon FDA-CVM requirements.

The only statement you will find on a bag of food referencing AAFCO is the nutritional statement that most states require to be on a pet food label. This statement is similar to “X dog food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for maintenance of adult dogs”.

All Solid Gold foods have a nutritional guarantee statement like the one above.

I would recommend Wolf Cub for a Golden puppy, as it is specially formulated with a reduced level of calcium, phosphorus, and calories to promote a healthy growth rate.

Let me know if you have any further questions!

Customer Service

P 800.364.4863

[Jennifer H]

I may be a little late coming to the party, but I saw the question regarding nutrition for a Saint Bernard puppy and had to respond. I have been involved with Saint Bernards for over 40 years and can’t stress enough the importance of keeping them lean and making sure they get LOTS OF OFF LEASH EXCERSIE. I fed a kibble with canned food as a topper for many years and then starting making my own cooked food to use as a topper. Two years ago I made the leap to a RAW diet and cannot begin to describe the amazing changes I have seen in my dogs. I have 2 Saints that are rapidly approaching 10 years of age and are still running and playing with my younger Saints.
My recommendation is this:
Keep the Calcium/Phosphorus ratio as close to 1:1 as possible
Keep Calcium to 3g/1000 Kcals or lower
DON’T LET THEM GET FAT
DON’T EVER LET THEM SLIP AND SLIDE ON SLICK FLOORS

[Brenda G]

My 12 year old box was told she had cancer and acute renal failure (acute = early renal = kidney). The vet insisted that unless I paid $200 a week for special hill’s K/D (or any other prescription diet) she would die and regardless she would die in 6 months. I was heart broken I couldn’t afford $200 a week. I had at the time 2 other dogs and a horse. So I cried for about a day straight (ok probably a lot longer than that), I love my dogs just like everyone here. I had to do my research and find the best alternative to the prescription diet. So I asked the vet if you could recommend anything else what would it be? That’s the only thing that she was willing to recommend also should mention this vet sells the dog food but was willing to give me a prescription for it to get it else where. The vet was willing to tell me that the two important things in a K/D diet were protein and phosphorus. I did my research and I called every major manufacture (iams and pedigree share the same phone number apparently a company called mars 1-800-675-3849) etc. Most dog foods contain around 0.8% phosphorus so I was looking for anything with less. I found one blend of dog food what wasn’t weight ( the weight control tastes gross and she wont eat it) controlled the price was more than reasonable at about $22 for 27lbs which would last my two dogs 2 weeks (now we have one other dog but it last them a month) This is a no sugar added no dyes and no artificial preservatives dog food (for all three brands). Here’s the kicker I could only buy it online in large bags or drive like 20mins plus for smaller more expensive bags(I had two large breed dogs and one small breed). I contacted Iams this week because the price of the dog food had sky rocketed to 47 (on amazon) which is way too much and Walmart wasn’t showing when it would be back in stock or at all. Come to find out they discontinued it 8months ago. I searched high and low and found blue buffalo (aka blue diamond) had about the same values but there have been 1400 consumer complaints and many recalls of their food and the same with purina. I did contact both companies and they did offer weight control alternatives to the dog food I was currently feeding. But again both companies had poor recall records and a lot of dogs were getting sick from their brands from diarrhea or vomiting and worse sometimes death. As my dog is a boxer she’s a natural gas bag so feeding her anything that would further upset her already delicate gastric intestinal systems is absolute a no no. Oh i forgot to put in the numbers, so when this all started I had her blood ran to see where she was at she had high phosphorus and high protein so I switched to this dog food “Iams so good Savory chicken” then took her to a different vet which was much further away by about an hour and half. The vet said that her levels still showed problems but dogs with her levels lived years so keep doing what i was doing. Anyway I’m writing today about this discontinued product because I think people should know about it. Call the number I put in and ask iams to start making the product they claim that the sales were poor but I assure you it ran out online all the time and it would sky rocket in price then drop back down. This is a good alternative to $200 a week. And they are not telling people enough about their product to say hey try this it might help your wallet and your dog. I have seen someone write about primal or nature’s as well as lotus which is really really really expensive. If there is enough pressure on iams they will bring the food back. This is working and its not breaking my already busted pocket book. It really shouldn’t be about money but when you dont have money to spend like that it kind of is the best you can afford. Once supply runs out they dont make any more and I cant find anything that she will eat. I’m not saying I know better than a vet. I am not buy any means a vet however I tested it before I put her on it full time. Switched her from pedigree normal nutrition for a week then had her blood checked again. About a year ago they gave my dog 6 months. As long as she has a good quality of life I’m happy. I’m going to buy a few smaller bags to give myself time to research incase they dont change their mind but so far the ones that are the best make your dog sick. I have done tons of research both this time and last time when I found the iams so good. It really makes me angry that people are buying it but stores wont carry it.

I found the perfect dog food Iams so good savory chicken (as well as their salmon and their beef have all the same % this is the beef but its the same as the chicken) The arrows show the two important values to a dog with liver problems

Crude Protein, minimum 21.00% <—-
Crude Fat, minimum 10.00%
Crude Fiber, maximum 5.00%
Moisture, maximum 10.00%
Linoleic Acid, minimum 1.9%
Calcium,minimum 0.65%
Phosphorus, minimum 0.5% <—-
Iron, minimum 225 mg/kg
Zinc, minimum 160 mg/k
Vitamin E, minimum 80 IU/kg

[CarolAMFT]

I’ve been using Dinovite for a couple of years and have seen no improvement in my dog’s conditions. She sheds, has a dull coat, scratches, chews her paws and has smelly yeasty ears. Nothing has improved without my Vet’s intervention. I kept thinking it might just take time.

I also started out with their Raw Food diet and Maggie developed crystals in her urine. The vet thought it could be from too much calcium from the egg shells. She also felt the diet was too high in protein and suggested I run it through the http://www.BalanceIt.com program that determines if the homemade diet you are feeding your dog or cat meets all the nutritional requirements. Because of Maggie’s yeast, I decided to substitute Quinoa, which is lower glycemic and higher in protein than the brown rice they suggest.

I also switched to a cooked diet, after my vet also discouraged the use of raw foods, saying that domestic dogs and cats no longer have the digestive tract that their wild carnivore ancestors had. Even wild carnivores seldom, if ever, eat food that has rotted. I also read the AMVA Raw Food Diet warning: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

Finally, Maggie now has liver disease, which I wonder isn’t either due to her diet or the Dinovite itself. It may be something else entirely, but I have an appointment with UC Davis in July for a second opinion, so hope to find out more. I’ll let you know if they find anything that might be associated with the Dinovite.

[Salz]

Cannoli- thank you so much for your input. I’ve fed Orijen for a long time and really do trust their product. But I also am keen on understanding that some foods just aren’t right for certain dogs.

I went ahead and contacted Stella and Chewys to get the Calcium and Phosphorous percentages for each formula AS FED. Once I calculated the ratios, I concluded that every formula except the Turkey had a Calcium to Phosphorous ratio of 1.5 to 1 or lower which to my knowledge is safe for large breed puppies (The Turkey is 1.9 to 1). The S&C rep also helped me calculate some basic feeding guidelines for my puppy which I thought was very thorough and considerate of her! I picked up 2 packages of S&C yesterday and switched Jax over cold turkey from his turkey and rice. He’s had completely solid stools for the first time in weeks and has already began to act like himself. It could be coincidence or it could be the food but either way, I’m glad I did the research and will continue him on this food!

[pitlove]

Hi Jeremy and Mike-

Congratulations on the new mastiff pups! They are wonderful dogs.

To you both: I would definitely caution against using THK as a sole diet for your growing puppies. The company itself is infamous for diets that are lacking in nutrients per AAFCO and the NRC. Using it supplementally is safe, but not long term by itself.

However, it does already sound like you both have decided to use a large breed puppy kibble base which is a much better idea. Tripett is a good choice for a canned topper since the calcium and phosphorus are very low and already balanced properly.

Most veterinary nutritionists recommend using a food from a larger company that invests in feeding trials. Obviously those companies being Hill’s and Purina. I do however understand that many do not feel comfortable using those brands. Dr.Tim’s Kinesis has also been feed trialed and is safe for large breed puppies.

Others that I recommend that meet the criteria for large breed puppies based on lab analysis are: Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy, Nulo Puppy(formulated by a veterinary nutritionist they have staffed), Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy, Solid Gold Wolf Cub.

[Elinor M]

Only need to give Coconut oil (about 1/2-1 tsp per feeding) and maybe the addition of fiber (oat bran, about 1 tsp per feeding). No need to brush teeth if giving raw chicken wings (cut in half depending on size of dog). I raw feed and mix with kibble (3/4 cup kibble and remainder raw ground meat or ground turkey and also oftentimes add some sardines [omegas], mashed unadulterated sweet potatoes [about 1 lg soup spoon] and plain low fat yogurt [Fage brand is the best there is] and sometimes blueberries [about 1/2 cup per feeding once/wk] and sometimes 1/2 banana cut into chunks, other times steamed green beans, or steamed frozen peas, they like carrots too but must be cooked to soft stage, sometimes steamed cauliflower or chopped spinach and try to remember to top whatever I fix with Cilantro [detox]. My dogs are 6 mo old, eat 3 meals per day (until they’re 1 yr old). Sometimes I only give them couple chicken wings for mid-day meal and they seem to do real well. I also add to their meals twice/day Transfer Factor Canine Formula for all the nutrients I’m not able to provide by raw/kibble feeding. It’s expensive but lasts a really really long time between my 2 dogs which are: A Red Haired Golden Retriever and a German Shorthaired Pointer who are both very very active and healthy and have soft coats and clear eyes and very very white teeth (from the bones which contain calcium). Sometimes I also put a raw egg into their food which they love (using only some of the egg shell for the calcium which I sort of hand pulverize). Golden Retriever has been spayed and recovered completely in 2 days. German Shorthair Pointer will be spayed tomorrow 6/6/16 so am believing she’ll recover as quickly. In closing, if anyone’s dog gets diarrhea, give the dog 1 T Organic Canned Pumpkin or the supplement called Slippery Elm (1 cap for med size dog and 1/2 cap for smaller size [1 cap = 1/2 tsp….dump it out of capsule onto a largish piece of cheese and roll the whole thing up and feed that to the dog), Also might mention I fix all my own dog treats which is easy to do and they simply love them.